Centralised government yes but dictator…. No somalis need to be able to vote for their leaders so they feel accountable for choosing a bad leader also it stops the president from getting complete power and potentially genociding a clan again which will send us back decades…
U can defend a mass murderer all u like thats not my problem but remember Allah said “killing 1 life is like killing all of humanity” but killing a muslim thats a whole different story he killed nearly a million muslims i will never defend and inshAllah Allah deals with him
There is no justification for murder u moron
Then i have respect for none of them simple. I will never push my morals aside for some men that are rotting underground
Amd saying every politician has murder on their hands is a big claim that u have to prove also if it was death penalty for criminals that doesn’t count
He didn’t destroy anything. Low IQ Somalis did when they overthrew him. Don’t blame MSB for the pitiful state Somalia finds itself in. He was no saint but the good outweighed the bad.
I did not call entire clans low IQ, I called the warlords who overthrew MSB low IQ. It is a fact! They resorted to complete anarchy once they overthrew him instead of nation-building.
As I said earlier, MSB is no saint. And I’ll retract on my previous statement of saying that the good he brought outweighed the bad.
when one can understand those basic Historical "Facts" that you stated then can we go forwards and learn from the mistakes we made 30+ years ago! , But if one don't learn from his past mistakes and enemy! He\*She will just be on ground zero circling around and repeat the same mistakes etc, Lack of real Education and intellectual understanding and Logical- understand of the Truth! and differentiating between foe and enemy! and not learning from the mistakes of the past and current, is the biggest problem facing our community etc,
Good of killing more than half a million people? The bar is really low, muqdisho was the only developed city everything else was desert, there was no sewage system, we were relying on aid, siad barre was a secularist
His bad definitely outweigh his good
Somalia was in a much better state than now when that tyrant was in power. If acknowledging that fact makes me a supporter of MSB then I am glad to be one. This is the second time you’ve responded to me in regards to that comment. Move on.
It’s been 30 years and you’re crying about a man who is six feet under yet others supposedly need to heal? 🤣. Go and build up Somalia. Crying about a deceased man on Reddit like a little girl will not get us anywhere!
Let it be a a democracy or a dictatorship, if you launch rebellion against any Head of State and His government, without a Logical reason for it, expect for the worst! and don't bring the victim card if you get killed "CUZ" you ain't gonna get any flowers and roses, But nothing but Fire and Fury! Even "Allah-swt" said rebelling against your leader and government is Haram and if you get killed you will end up in Hell! so those in the 80s and 90s fighting for tribelism and other illogical things! and rebeld against the government, According to islam, They all ended up in Hell fire 🔥
I agree with u but siad barre shouldve looked for the snm members and not killed the innocent women and children and rebellion is definitely haram but theres no excuse to killing 200k innocent people
I mean…. That’s hardly possible. The way it was done was the most sure fire way to effectively get rid of a lot of traitors. Just to let you know that me saying this doesn’t mean I agree with the action as a lot of innocents died who are of deen. But there doesn’t seem to have been a possibility of a more reasonable method that doesn’t lead to the destruction of innocents.
Maybe hd could’ve fucking built there deserted lands? The people of the north felt neglected under his rule
The truth is he didn’t care about the country because if it was that easy for him to bomb the fuck out of their lands and people then he really didn’t care
This is why you can’t be a leader and nor can I (for a whole nation). Neither of us would have pressed that button nor carry that mentality but it certainly would have caused problems too. Ultimately there is no winner in this scenario and god will deal with those that harmed their people accordingly. I do believe the seeds of this eventual conflict would show it head sooner or later even if unification went all hunky dory for a bit. But that’s just my own theory.
if the somali government was Truly unfair to the northerners, They wouldn't have saved the northerners during the famine of 1974-1975! did you know that every single government transport available and military was mobilized to help the northerners? Not only that but The government made sure that northerners would get jobs and other free benefits when they arrived in the south etc! with limited resources, They somali government did its best to treat everyone equally and fairly!! and in the late 80s SNM rebels from Ethiopia attacked! The north using guerrilla warfare and hit and run attacks, Long story short, Majority of the northerners, were welcoming and cooperating with SNM rebels, and from there! That's when the government realized! This is ain't a rebel group situation , But one tribe trying to cause civil war and instability! etc, and that's why the government bombarded the North!
I wanna believe this because it sounds realistic but at the same time i need proof or something to back this up
Also why did snm want to rebel in the first place because if im correct they were still unionists even after siad barres death
Here's the Proof, see it for yourself and come back afterwards and Tell me if the Government was unfair to anybody! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBmXvg7Kk8Q&ab\_channel=TaariikhArchive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBmXvg7Kk8Q&ab_channel=TaariikhArchive)
The most important Laws , when seeking the truth is firstly one must be "Open minded, intellectual and Logical" and see and read the Facts, then go to conclusion and calculation! to get The Truth! etc!
I remember watching this vid a while back its a great video also I think in the 70s he was loved by people from all around somali weyn
The problem with him tho was that he based his investments solely on the south when the north couldve also had an opportunity to become developed like solar and wind energy, livestock exportation, frankincense farming, tourism, gold mining, oil, easily farmed crops and many other things but he completely neglected it in terms of infrastructure and development, the capital city which had the most business and trade was in the south, farming was in the south etc
Another mistake he made was not taking advice from his generals he couldve been smarter with galbeed in 77 by funding rebel groups, not trying to go all the way to Addis ababa
Here's another fact, big oil and gas companies were surprised by the huge amount of oil and gas that was in Somalia etc, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lwc46p3BcY&ab\_channel=SOMALI24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lwc46p3BcY&ab_channel=SOMALI24)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J3rhwUfKRA&ab\_channel=KalsanTV
actually there were many big infrastructure projects in the north built by him, such as ports, roads, airports, Schools etc,did you know that Nasa had a base in Berbera? and the biggest port in somalia was in berbera? not only that but the Airport in hargeisa as it's current shape and size was built by him etc, and yes The 77 war damaged the economy a lot, The somali economy as you may know was mainly relying on agriculture, livestock exports and some homemade produced and manufactured diverse goods, That revenue was not enough nor huge etc, a drastic economic boom recovery plan was planned in the 80s by the government! Many big oil and gas companies discovered a lot of high quality juicy stuff in Somalia etc, This discovery could have been a economical game changer for the country, and having a stable uncorrupt government was another big blessing! because as you may know many countries in Africa that has oil and gas are cursed, thanks to currupt fat hippos sucking all the income revenue for themselves just look at Nigeria!!🤦♂️The minister of oil and gas in Nigeria was caught stealing 20 billion dollar of cash at the airport going to UK with private jet etc! our government was not corrupt but very patriotic and uncorrupt, and the leadership was not sellouts, compared to what came after and what we have today, Here's a fact, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTDY9mWQwDk&ab\_channel=idaacaddabuuloxuubeey
The 4.5 system is just an imprint of Kenyan and Ethopian influence in Somalia. It doesn't work and isn't even functional when faced with corruption. We should scrap it all together.
A Unitary parliamentary republic would be best for Somalia. I have already made a post about this talking about ways to improve Somalia using the government. Gaining a centralized government will require the toppling of many state leaders, and replacing them with clan-related educated leaders who are loyal to Somalia and the government.
The reason why the federal government currently can't do shit is the lack of power and its reputation. When your weak, your own people will walk over you. The federal government or even a new government will need to gain power quickly. I would prefer a new government to immediatly try to win over its people. With the support of the people you can do anything. Gain support from the people and instill fear in the dissents. The reason why leaders like Ahmed Madoobe are popular is because they gain the support by people by creating security in the regions they hold. Somalis currently would favour security over stopping under-the-table deals.
Federalism works for countries like Ethiopia with different ethnic groups living together. However it does NOT work for a country like Somalia, still recovering from a brutal civil war. It is not a secret that Ethiopia and unfortunately our own Somali brother Ismail Omer Guelleh were the ones who established the 4.5 system to divide and weaken somalis. Just ask anyone at the Carte Conference in Djibouti in 04!
I agree with the removal of 4.5 but not the removal of federalism
I would say that the constitution needs to be rewritten to reduce the states power , ban state leaders from calling themselves president ( madax gobol only ) and ban referring to them as dawlada on documents .
I think the state leaders are what make federalism look bad , ahmed madoobe , deni , musa bixi , what a disgraceful lineup …
Disagree somalia should splinter as much as it can which will help folks build up their tuulos. Once that’s done people will see war as more riskier than prior. After that we can finally come to meet together and build something as a country but the way it is right now will not work
Yeah because USC were the only rebel groups destroying cities like beledweyne baydhabo kismayo bosaaso hargaysa etc…Also Muqdisho was not as developed as people would have you to believe it be
4.5 should be removed, but not the federal system. I believe that if we write a strong constitution, limit the power of each government, and implement checks and balances in the country, we will see a positive change.
I don’t know, recently I am seeing a lot of you hating 4.5, which I agree with you but that was/is the only solution we have had, there was no solution other than that
Do you know what happened 15 years ago? Clans war, clans were competing each other to steal as much as possible, and this system made every big clan to have an equal share of government and it’s what solved for politic civil war between clans, it isn’t good system overall but there isn’t another system we can use until we can register the whole population and make them vote.
Off-course, every Somali politician will tell you it’s temporary, and even the time it was made it was agreed to be a temporary, the problem is a lot of diaspora have no knowledge on what is going in the home country, just look at your post and think why am I against the 4.5 system when you know it’s temporary and it’s the best solution we have until we can Register the population and make them vote.
Centralised government yes but dictator…. No somalis need to be able to vote for their leaders so they feel accountable for choosing a bad leader also it stops the president from getting complete power and potentially genociding a clan again which will send us back decades…
[удалено]
U can defend a mass murderer all u like thats not my problem but remember Allah said “killing 1 life is like killing all of humanity” but killing a muslim thats a whole different story he killed nearly a million muslims i will never defend and inshAllah Allah deals with him There is no justification for murder u moron
[удалено]
Then i have respect for none of them simple. I will never push my morals aside for some men that are rotting underground Amd saying every politician has murder on their hands is a big claim that u have to prove also if it was death penalty for criminals that doesn’t count
[удалено]
He didn’t destroy anything. Low IQ Somalis did when they overthrew him. Don’t blame MSB for the pitiful state Somalia finds itself in. He was no saint but the good outweighed the bad.
[удалено]
I did not call entire clans low IQ, I called the warlords who overthrew MSB low IQ. It is a fact! They resorted to complete anarchy once they overthrew him instead of nation-building. As I said earlier, MSB is no saint. And I’ll retract on my previous statement of saying that the good he brought outweighed the bad.
when one can understand those basic Historical "Facts" that you stated then can we go forwards and learn from the mistakes we made 30+ years ago! , But if one don't learn from his past mistakes and enemy! He\*She will just be on ground zero circling around and repeat the same mistakes etc, Lack of real Education and intellectual understanding and Logical- understand of the Truth! and differentiating between foe and enemy! and not learning from the mistakes of the past and current, is the biggest problem facing our community etc,
Good of killing more than half a million people? The bar is really low, muqdisho was the only developed city everything else was desert, there was no sewage system, we were relying on aid, siad barre was a secularist His bad definitely outweigh his good
Half a million people? Give me a break.
U dismissed all the other points because deep down u know ik right and ur only supporting the tyrant for other stupid reasons
Somalia was in a much better state than now when that tyrant was in power. If acknowledging that fact makes me a supporter of MSB then I am glad to be one. This is the second time you’ve responded to me in regards to that comment. Move on.
Maybe u shouldn’t of replied to my comment if u didn’t want me to reply ur so lost honestly and brainwashed hope u heal
It’s been 30 years and you’re crying about a man who is six feet under yet others supposedly need to heal? 🤣. Go and build up Somalia. Crying about a deceased man on Reddit like a little girl will not get us anywhere!
Add the isaaq, majeerteen, hawiye and the raxanweyn he killed together its around there
Im daarod too but its funny how anyone who doesn’t praise siad barre is called sheegato 😂
Let it be a a democracy or a dictatorship, if you launch rebellion against any Head of State and His government, without a Logical reason for it, expect for the worst! and don't bring the victim card if you get killed "CUZ" you ain't gonna get any flowers and roses, But nothing but Fire and Fury! Even "Allah-swt" said rebelling against your leader and government is Haram and if you get killed you will end up in Hell! so those in the 80s and 90s fighting for tribelism and other illogical things! and rebeld against the government, According to islam, They all ended up in Hell fire 🔥
I agree with u but siad barre shouldve looked for the snm members and not killed the innocent women and children and rebellion is definitely haram but theres no excuse to killing 200k innocent people
I mean…. That’s hardly possible. The way it was done was the most sure fire way to effectively get rid of a lot of traitors. Just to let you know that me saying this doesn’t mean I agree with the action as a lot of innocents died who are of deen. But there doesn’t seem to have been a possibility of a more reasonable method that doesn’t lead to the destruction of innocents.
Let's be Honest and truthful! i don't disagree with you!
Maybe hd could’ve fucking built there deserted lands? The people of the north felt neglected under his rule The truth is he didn’t care about the country because if it was that easy for him to bomb the fuck out of their lands and people then he really didn’t care
This is why you can’t be a leader and nor can I (for a whole nation). Neither of us would have pressed that button nor carry that mentality but it certainly would have caused problems too. Ultimately there is no winner in this scenario and god will deal with those that harmed their people accordingly. I do believe the seeds of this eventual conflict would show it head sooner or later even if unification went all hunky dory for a bit. But that’s just my own theory.
if the somali government was Truly unfair to the northerners, They wouldn't have saved the northerners during the famine of 1974-1975! did you know that every single government transport available and military was mobilized to help the northerners? Not only that but The government made sure that northerners would get jobs and other free benefits when they arrived in the south etc! with limited resources, They somali government did its best to treat everyone equally and fairly!! and in the late 80s SNM rebels from Ethiopia attacked! The north using guerrilla warfare and hit and run attacks, Long story short, Majority of the northerners, were welcoming and cooperating with SNM rebels, and from there! That's when the government realized! This is ain't a rebel group situation , But one tribe trying to cause civil war and instability! etc, and that's why the government bombarded the North!
I wanna believe this because it sounds realistic but at the same time i need proof or something to back this up Also why did snm want to rebel in the first place because if im correct they were still unionists even after siad barres death
Here's the Proof, see it for yourself and come back afterwards and Tell me if the Government was unfair to anybody! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBmXvg7Kk8Q&ab\_channel=TaariikhArchive](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBmXvg7Kk8Q&ab_channel=TaariikhArchive) The most important Laws , when seeking the truth is firstly one must be "Open minded, intellectual and Logical" and see and read the Facts, then go to conclusion and calculation! to get The Truth! etc!
I remember watching this vid a while back its a great video also I think in the 70s he was loved by people from all around somali weyn The problem with him tho was that he based his investments solely on the south when the north couldve also had an opportunity to become developed like solar and wind energy, livestock exportation, frankincense farming, tourism, gold mining, oil, easily farmed crops and many other things but he completely neglected it in terms of infrastructure and development, the capital city which had the most business and trade was in the south, farming was in the south etc Another mistake he made was not taking advice from his generals he couldve been smarter with galbeed in 77 by funding rebel groups, not trying to go all the way to Addis ababa
Here's another fact, big oil and gas companies were surprised by the huge amount of oil and gas that was in Somalia etc, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lwc46p3BcY&ab\_channel=SOMALI24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lwc46p3BcY&ab_channel=SOMALI24) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J3rhwUfKRA&ab\_channel=KalsanTV
actually there were many big infrastructure projects in the north built by him, such as ports, roads, airports, Schools etc,did you know that Nasa had a base in Berbera? and the biggest port in somalia was in berbera? not only that but the Airport in hargeisa as it's current shape and size was built by him etc, and yes The 77 war damaged the economy a lot, The somali economy as you may know was mainly relying on agriculture, livestock exports and some homemade produced and manufactured diverse goods, That revenue was not enough nor huge etc, a drastic economic boom recovery plan was planned in the 80s by the government! Many big oil and gas companies discovered a lot of high quality juicy stuff in Somalia etc, This discovery could have been a economical game changer for the country, and having a stable uncorrupt government was another big blessing! because as you may know many countries in Africa that has oil and gas are cursed, thanks to currupt fat hippos sucking all the income revenue for themselves just look at Nigeria!!🤦♂️The minister of oil and gas in Nigeria was caught stealing 20 billion dollar of cash at the airport going to UK with private jet etc! our government was not corrupt but very patriotic and uncorrupt, and the leadership was not sellouts, compared to what came after and what we have today, Here's a fact, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTDY9mWQwDk&ab\_channel=idaacaddabuuloxuubeey
So if he was so “perfect” and getting us out of poverty why were 4 rebel groups even formed
This topic gets rinsed so much…how but Sharia Law and keep it moving
The 4.5 system is just an imprint of Kenyan and Ethopian influence in Somalia. It doesn't work and isn't even functional when faced with corruption. We should scrap it all together. A Unitary parliamentary republic would be best for Somalia. I have already made a post about this talking about ways to improve Somalia using the government. Gaining a centralized government will require the toppling of many state leaders, and replacing them with clan-related educated leaders who are loyal to Somalia and the government. The reason why the federal government currently can't do shit is the lack of power and its reputation. When your weak, your own people will walk over you. The federal government or even a new government will need to gain power quickly. I would prefer a new government to immediatly try to win over its people. With the support of the people you can do anything. Gain support from the people and instill fear in the dissents. The reason why leaders like Ahmed Madoobe are popular is because they gain the support by people by creating security in the regions they hold. Somalis currently would favour security over stopping under-the-table deals.
Why cant we have both stopping under the table deals and security?
I fully agree
Federalism works for countries like Ethiopia with different ethnic groups living together. However it does NOT work for a country like Somalia, still recovering from a brutal civil war. It is not a secret that Ethiopia and unfortunately our own Somali brother Ismail Omer Guelleh were the ones who established the 4.5 system to divide and weaken somalis. Just ask anyone at the Carte Conference in Djibouti in 04!
I agree with the removal of 4.5 but not the removal of federalism I would say that the constitution needs to be rewritten to reduce the states power , ban state leaders from calling themselves president ( madax gobol only ) and ban referring to them as dawlada on documents . I think the state leaders are what make federalism look bad , ahmed madoobe , deni , musa bixi , what a disgraceful lineup …
Disagree somalia should splinter as much as it can which will help folks build up their tuulos. Once that’s done people will see war as more riskier than prior. After that we can finally come to meet together and build something as a country but the way it is right now will not work
Muqdisho was beautiful and fairly developed for its time in 1991 that didn’t stop usc from destroying EVERYTHING and it was there own city imagine
Yeah because USC were the only rebel groups destroying cities like beledweyne baydhabo kismayo bosaaso hargaysa etc…Also Muqdisho was not as developed as people would have you to believe it be
Muqdisho was the most developed city of that time
For Somali standards
4,5 yeah awful system, federalism is good at this moment, the wounds are to deep for centralization.
4.5 should be removed, but not the federal system. I believe that if we write a strong constitution, limit the power of each government, and implement checks and balances in the country, we will see a positive change.
Instead of federal states why not 18 regions?
I don’t know, recently I am seeing a lot of you hating 4.5, which I agree with you but that was/is the only solution we have had, there was no solution other than that
It doesn’t seem to be working at all and we had it for 15 years
Do you know what happened 15 years ago? Clans war, clans were competing each other to steal as much as possible, and this system made every big clan to have an equal share of government and it’s what solved for politic civil war between clans, it isn’t good system overall but there isn’t another system we can use until we can register the whole population and make them vote.
It is a temporary solution but not permanent because this system is just way to corrupt our resources are being looted
Off-course, every Somali politician will tell you it’s temporary, and even the time it was made it was agreed to be a temporary, the problem is a lot of diaspora have no knowledge on what is going in the home country, just look at your post and think why am I against the 4.5 system when you know it’s temporary and it’s the best solution we have until we can Register the population and make them vote.
We got no trust with each other. We need a system that gives clans their own autonomy and we slowly become more centralized that’s the only way
How will the lines be divided? Are u talking 18 states that we had or the current federal states?