What kind of government would you guys prefer for our country to fix our situation?
By - Aggressive_Fly_8183
There’s only one Islamic answer.
I'm not sure why they put Sharia when it's not a form of Goverment, it's a type of Legal system which that said form of Goverment runs it's nation with. They're not in the same category Sharia is in the category like Sharia Law, Secular Law, Customary Law,Halakha(Jewish) Law etc. It's like listing off types of Aqeeda and putting Malaki or Hanafi on that list.
i am a firm believer that humans can never be objective and all humans are susceptible to greed and corruption. honestly, that's why sharia makes the most sense. Instead of the people governing the country, Islam should be used to govern. But, this cannot be a corrupted version of sharia either, it has to stick to the divine revelation and prophetic narrations. Otherwise we will always have a continuous cycle of corruption, greed, and poverty. Also, Islam tells us how to deal with the non Muslims anyways but ideally all somalis would be Muslim.
Bro Sharia can be currented too because it's people who supposed to implement the Sharia not angels from the heaven.
Case in point Saudi Arabia is technically Sharia law Nation, they don't have written constitution because supposedly The Quran is their Constitution but you seen them allowing Halloween, and banning loud calls of prayers.
Democracy all over the world are corrupted look at usa, Egypt and most of Africa. The reality is democracy only works in countries where majority of the population are financially stable and educated like norway although they built their country off of others sufferings
First of all Egypt is not a Democracy it's millary dictatorship.
Democracy is not just holding election, most African countries hold currented elections where the rulling party or person always win like Djibouti and Uganda, that's not a Democracy, that dictatorship pretending to be democracy.
A true democracy is when people have the power to change the government without interference from those in power and in countries where that exists most of the time like 90% of the time they're prosperous.
You can't say that about dictatorship, dictatorship is always always doomed to fail.
Just for my information who's suffering Norway it's country off?
How do u know democracy even exists? Leaders can be rotated between different leaders with the same interests look at america they’re brainwashed with “choosing their own leader” so they let them get away with anything. The media is owned by one family, one race is the majority in prison thats far from freedom Ask yourself why Singapore is a successful dictatorship
In what Universe Singapore is a dictatorship?
You can find successful dictatorship and unsuccessful democracy but if compare the numbers there are far more successful democracies than successful dictatorships.
I can't believe y'all defending dictatorship in this sub when we had a dictatorship and it ruined our community.
Look i did research and im a human i made a mistake supporting dictatorship but as for Singapore it is a dictatorship who has been in power for the past 60 years? One family
Singapore holds free and fair election where one party (perhaps controlled by one family) wins all the time.
That's unusual but still a democracy. people can give the power to one man over and over if they wish to.
The neighboring Malaysia was the same until 2018 one party won the election since the independence without rigging the election.
Allah does. The Quran has been preserved by the will of Allah and so have Hadiths. It’s not my choice or someone else’s choice to nitpick what is correct and what is not. We go by the evidences we have and all other ambiguities are to be dealt with by Allah on the day of judgement.
Secular humanism is not our source of morality. Secular laws will eventually supersede and repress religious laws.
Sure there are different variations of sharia with different laws and rulling, but the one thing they have in common is that they protect the interest of Allah. In Sharia, we can elect a leader, and if he goes too far and oppresses the community, we can vote him out. There is an electoral system in sharia.
You can have different non islamic courts in sharia for non-believers. But if both parties are muslim, why would you not trust a islamic court?
Shariah law has 4 jurisprudences and somalia would be under shafii
Their isn’t different version of sharia
This non corrupted version of sharia hasnt been applied irl. Humans are still the practitioners and sharia doesn't adequately prevent the concentration of power in the hands of a few actors. You're then having to rely very heavily on the moral character of your rulers, something which historically seems to breed megalomaniacs and despots.
Yes it has been applied previously with the rightly guided caliphs but it’s been quite a while since then. I see what you’re saying but also my point is if you hold people to a religious morale, there is a conduct that is so clearly defined that can’t be disputed. Either it’s correct or not. Unlike democracy where morale is always changing in response to the current society, Islam is stagnant, keeping us firm upon the truth and not giving in to our whims and desires. In a system where ppl define the laws and rules, things that were deemed as unusual or shameful in one generation have the potential to be normal and widespread in the next.
I want to know which one of you boot lickers voted for military dictatorship
Welcome to the gulag comrade
When will people here learn that sharia is not a rigid system it can be modified. It's a framework to govern a country under Islamic principles. Sharia in Qatar is not the same as in Afghanistan. Let's shape our own community under Islam we are 99.9% Muslim population and yes minorities religion can feel safe under sharia its not a problem for UAE.
Edit: we can add an electoral system so that we can get fair and trusted government representatives.
Electoral systems are already allowed since the khulafah Rashidun were picked by the people
Electoral systems are allowed for choosing leaders but citizens or governments have no say in making the laws Allah has already created
That's what I said. Legistlation is for Allah only, so obviously the government or the ppl can't laws, but can elect leaders.
You're using Qatar, a country where 6000 people died (many of then muslim) building stadiums and hotels for a football tournament, as an example of moral and just governance???
Afghanistan where the taliban overlook dressing up young boys as girls to dance for men as it doesnt conflict with laws on the seperation of the genders.
Both these examples of a culturally modified sharia have massive moral and ethical issues and are incredibly corrupt.
Do you seriously think this can't happen under liberal democracy? when western countries came to Africa they had democratic governments even during slavery. France is still collecting taxes from 14 countries the people are very poor that is not exploitation?
honestly, there is no clean and perfect government system. But if we look at the darkest moment in history the worst leaders were nonreligious that ran with secularism. and most of their systems oppress Islam that's why I am against it.
At the end of the day, we as Somali should participate in the voting system so that this kind of sharia can be stopped and I don't think the people here want a country like Afghanistan. We have all the resources needed to prosper all we need is just stability.
Indonesia has democracy without embracing liberalism. China has communism whilst still allowing capitalist enterprise. We dont have to choose between Liberalism or Sharia. I think it'd be better to build on the experiences of political projects rather than adopting Sharia in the hopes it would usher in the next golden age.
All Muslims should be saying, Sharia.
Do you know that Sharia Law comes from Allah? Calling it rigid as a Muslim is Haram.
Most of us on this sub live in the west due to the civil war. The only context in which they have heard the word sharia is when news outlets were speaking about ISIS. In their minds its immediately linked to terrorism
For anyone who voted democracy, 90% of the wealth is owned by 1% of the people. Democracies always have businessmen who worm their way in and take over through their economic power. America, Canada, EU, Japan, South Korea, etc. People eventually give up in life and Allah and go YOLO. Birth rates below replacement level, high suicide rates, mental health issues, health issues, etc.
Also the biggest negative about democracy is that a foreign power can and will attempt to take over through their own puppet (thats if it even works out for the country).
Not to metion Somalis have seen what happens in democracies from 1960-1969. Guys like Ali Mahdi came out and ran their qabils for their private use. In 1978-1991 when Somalia liberalized, the Marehan-Ogedan-Dhulbahante alliance stole a lot of the wealth of the country with the other major clans benefitting also but at a much smaller rate.
IMHO I prefer Sharia with Chinese like government. One party system, one ruler voted for by the party, with local government being a democracy and state government coming from the local rulers who accelled in their role.
BTW the best Somali states in the last 1300 years used sharia. The worst Somali states used democracy. Every epic Muslim state used sharia too.
100% they want you bent over and your market open lol socialist countries have historically been their enemies. Strong states that defend their people.
I believe Somalia should be a CONFEDERATION where there can be multiple states/provinces with a certain degree of autonomy, kind of like the states with the United States of America or the provinces in Canada. Democracy/communism are not types of government per say, but rather types of governance. There is a difference.
We have 18 regions in somalia with each region having a governor if thats what u meant
Democratic governments only follow the agenda of their lobbyists. Sharia only follows that which Allah has commanded.
Somalis are hard headed we need a dictator like rwanda.
Guys remember our biggest empires ran under sharia for hundreds of years.
Do we even have individual accounts who lived under those empires on how life was during those times?
You can find many, Islamic civiliation was literally one of the most powerful and largest civilizations in antiquity.
I really wanna know why some of you guys chose democracy instead of sharia. Do you guys know that Islamic values won't be respected under a democracy.
Wallahi I don’t get people who voted democracy.Do you want us to be a US puppet? We should run by Sharia.Purely the Quran and Hadith.
Exactly! Every democracy in africa is run by other powerful countries
Exactly walaal.We need to run a government by the Quran that was sent to us and the Hadith and not be controlled by western countries.
Well said. With islamic sharia we wouldn’t of reached this stage we wouldve been living like gulf or nordic countries
You guys should know democracy is haram
You should know not everyone is religious
So that’s why people chose democracy
You can't be a moslim if you are not religios.and somalisare 100% muslim and democracy is a white man rule we never had democracy in all of our history
Somalis definitely aren’t 100% muslim. No country is 100% muslim lol
Yes we are if your not a muslim you are not a somali
I don't why is it so hard for you to believe that we accepted islam before it reached iraq and syria.we were one of the first communities to accept it so it just makes sense for us to rule outselves with islamic sheria but we can have any type of government we want
I honestly don’t care how long ago we accepted islam tbh. There are Somali non Muslims whether you like it or not
When you actually live in Somalia for a period of time you’ll understand that there is nothing religious about Somalis in Somalia. It’s simply a means to an end. Very sad.
That’s why Shariah is nothing but delusion in Somalia. The society needs a lot of reform from so many basic levels. I don’t blame ppl, they’re simply a product of their environment.
Just let ppl govern their own tuulos in an adequate manner before you discuss forms of government.
>there is nothing religious about Somalis in Somalia
Subhanallah, that isn't true wallahi. Maybe the youth may be a little misguided, but most the adults have basic knowledge of the deen and avoid what islam prohibits. I've been in Somalia for half a decade almost and our people are definitely religious.
>Just let ppl govern their own tuulos in an adequate manner before you discuss forms of government
Nope, not anymore. We need to develop NOW. Our people had 30 years to learn from this war, that's more than enough. We need to stand up and adapt the Sharia insha allah
oh, so I imagined all mosques that were full in Somalia. Do you think they were at a club drinking? Somali people still believe in Islam as a way of living.
Islam is a whole package praying alone doesnt make u a mumin. The reality is killing, corruption, rape, theft and all sorts of crimes are normalised in somalia which is 99% muslim
As long as we pray and believe in the oneness of Allah we're muslim. The crimes our people are committing can stop once sharia is implemented in our lands.
Yes but thats not enough thats the basis only
It seems all you believe in are aesthetics when it comes to deen. Subhanallah get a grip man.
Ppl like you think Islam is about the aesthetics. What good is your salat if you’re corrupt? If you cheat ppl?? If you place your qabiil over God? What kind of Islam is that?
>What good is your salat if you’re corrupt? If you cheat ppl??
Astaghfirullah, Salah is what makes you Muslim. You can be corrupt as you want and cheat everyone, but if you still pray and believe in the oneness of Allah, you haven't left islam. Salah washes your sins away, what you said is what shaytaan whispers to us. 'You just sinned, no point in praying' is exactly what he tells us. The only point I agree with you is about placing qabiil over Allah, and most somalis don't do that. It's just the politicians.
Dude stop beating a strawman. I never said they weren’t Muslim. But I don’t want those ppl running an Islamic state
Salah does NOT wash major sins away like lying backbiting murder, rape, corruption etc
Salah and repentance washes away every sin besides Shirk if allah accepts it. A man can can be a rapist, killer and corrupt to the core, but that doesn't make him a gaal. He's just a bad muslim. Sincere repentance and salah washes away his sins if Allah accepts it.
Exactly and thank you. Somalis are not following any Islamic rules in the homeland. Just vibes and tribalism.
could you share a few points that you might think are extreme?
Somalia: The based edition -
A near absolute monarchy with an assembly mimicking the upper house of the British parliament (but abolishing the hereditary element from the jump).
So who becomes the heir without hereditary?
The monarchy is the hereditary. The "House of Lords" shouldn't be. It should be staffed by highly accomplished businessmen, intellectuals etc. that help in shaping the country. They'll hold a life long position. On their death/mandatory retirement, their seat should be granted to someone else based on merit.
Dictator? No thank you
We're doomed tbh, so I'm not sure why people put deen in politics always. It's like drug for somalis, every problem is deen.
Mixture of democracy and sharia
What part of democracy?
Freedom of speech mostly bro
Freedom of speech is a secular ideology that allows u to say anything u like which is allowed in islam as long as its not treason, against islam, vulgar words, propaganda etc theres no real freedom of speech in the world u cant say everything without getting repercussions
I think sharia would work but a mix of sharia and military dictatorship would be perfect. In Somalia right now the military power isn’t divided. Each state has similar weaponary. Somalia FG needs to have a clear advantage so people can become more nationalistic and proud they are from Somalia. Why you think during the 70s and 80s Somalis we’re a lot more patriotic.It’s cause we had a powerful army. Empower the FG lift the arms embargo and watch Somalia return.
>I think sharia would work but a mix of sharia and military dictatorship would be perfect.
Nigga cooking up the worst government ever seen
Nope brother. Take a look at Saudi, , Pakistan and many more. They all have sharia law established with military domination. Pakistan people are very patriotic and so are Saudis. Both are some of the most powerful Muslim nations on earth. You think any separatist movements would dare against there governments? Never lol
Bro Pakistan has nuclear weapons not a single nation would dare attack Pakistan. That’s the level I want Somalia to be at
You're talking out of your ass. Niggas be saying shut just to say it. Pakistan's government is the best version of the Somali government where they have ingrained some ethnic autonomy and kept a country together that really shouldn't be. Pakistani a manufactured identity and it is still 10x stronger than the Somali identity.
They've succeeded in doing what Ethiopia has failed to do since Menelik kicked the bucket. They're corrupt and their military deep state is wank, but the Pakistani system of government structure is good.
And 'decadent' Saudis/Gulf is a meme. You can dislike them all you want, but they have a highly effective system of governance. Without the absolute monarchies in place and the shared power structure in places between royal families, they're be a Somalia/Yemen-tier shithole. Instead they managed to build some of the most prosperous countries in such little time by exploiting their resources without falling in the unholy pitfalls of global south democracies like all the other Arab countries.
And they loved puppet dictatorships, and they love puppet democracies. They're indiscriminate about the system of governance and will overthrow any government they have active interest in deposing. There is no shortage of democracies that exist under the thumb of foreign interests.
The Saudi monarchy single-handedly allowed the country to exploit their resources for the country's benefit. Yes, they're corrupt, morally questionable, but achieve results. Screaming democracy when half the population can't read and live in a primitive clan-based society is peak retardation.
Wow that sounds perfect, until you mentioned the federal government. I dont think this government we have that is supported by the UN and EU has the capacity to become a military dictatorship. They have to follow the rules they are given, and they are also extremely corrupt. Each single politician is corrupt. I believe this government is a failed government and needs to be overhrowed, but that's just me.
Yh I do agree in a way. However they had tried to centralise the government recently and all states (excluding somaliland) agreed but puntland didn’t. We need 1 government. I genuinely believe if the embargo is lifted this year. Somalia will return and people will drop these other flags they have adopted to represent there states.
Even somaliland? That's great then, why is everything switching up now? Puntland was with us and somaliland was claiming to be independent before, now the tables have turned. Inshallah if this government gets their shit together and fixes the corruption and qabyaalad, they can reunite somalia, but not with a military dictatorship
Couldn’t agree more 💯
>Y'all really think Shariah law is somehow possible to implement without men using it for their own misguided goals?
Democracy is also a fragile system if the wrong people get into power. What makes you so confident that the people under a secular democracy would not misuse their power? it's probably gonna be the same people in charge anyways. Somalia is a failed state for a reason every type of government has failed here in Somali. democracy secular socialist state ~~sharia~~ dictatorship ALL FAILED.
Shariah never failed
>democracy secular socialist state sharia dictatorship ALL FAILED.
Sharia never failed, it was forcefully removed by the Ethiopian invasion of 2006, which resulted in the formation of al shabaab and hizbul islam. If Ethiopia didn't invade, I'm pretty sure ICU would've taken over puntland and maybe somaliland by now. They were on the border of puntland at gaalkacyo, and were getting ready to invade until Abdullah Yusuf begged for Ethiopia to save him.
True, I actually think that Somalia has the best chance under sharia.
There's a reason why sharia and democracy are separated in this poll. Democracy is a way of governing which depends on the will of the people. In Islam that's prohibited, since Allah is the only one worthy of legistlation. Secularism also literally means separation of state and church, so that doesn't make sense. Either there's Sharia or no Shaira. No mixing.
That isn't secularism then. Secularism means islam would be removed from the state, so if you give primacy to Islam you're doing the opposite of secularism.
Nowhere in that page does it even mention secularism even once, it has nothing to with secularism. Search up the definition of secularism, it means when state is separated from religion.
I don't have time to read that walaal but all I'm saying is it isn't 100% based on the Quran and Sunnah, then it isn't islam. Sharia means ruling while respecting the legistlation of Allah SWT. You prohibit what He prohibited, and allow what He allowed. In Surah Maidah Ayah 44 it says 'Whoever rule with other than what Allah has revealed are disbelievers'. Democracy and Secularism have nothing to Islam, and are prohibited 100%.
>Those who wish to be governed by Shariah law in the courts or legal system can opt-in if both parties agree. If one of the parties doesn't agree, the case should be taken to a secular court.
You're talking about courts here, I'm talking about the state itself. If the state is run by Sharia, there's no such thing as a secular court. Sharia state=Sharia court
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Horta are u an ex muslim?
Democratic,secular might decide in the future that sharia isn’t applicable and we end up like Tunisia. it has to be Islamic democracy where somali converts/atheist and other minor should have no political power and sharia laws cannot be changed except by Islamic jurists
They say sharia but immigrate to live in secularism democracy! Never changes… Sharia idealism is perfect way to live but which religious commentary guides us?Wahhabism ,salafism or sufism and etc?
Sharia isn't as bad as the media makes it look wllh they're against Islam. Sharia can bring peace within days in any city its applied in. In 2006 xamar went from a city ravaged by warlords and rapists to a peaceful city within a few weeks when sharia was applied. Every local I've talked to about the icu in xamar had nothing to say but positive stuff. Look at somalia now, the FG has been in control for over a decade, yet they don't control any land above GM or below Sh/hoose. You want to know why? Because no one really likes the government of Somalia outside of xamar. I've been to some cities in puntland and I've been to hargeisa as well, and most people there agree with reuning with somalia but not with the government we have today. Sharia would definitely work.
I was in Somalia that time. It was a good time. But then what happened? The islamist divided into three groups and starting bombing and shooting each other. Secondly we need to analyze widely. Lets look sharia governed countries in three basics: Human rights, free speech and welfare. Give me one nation get these three’s?
>Lets look sharia governed countries in three basics: Human rights, free speech and welfare. Give me one nation get these three’s?
Human rights according to who? The UN? When Sharia is used correctly, human rights isn't a problem. For free speech, anything that doesn't go against the deen (e.g. blasphemy, shirk, etc) is allowed as long as it doesn't promote violence in the country. As for welfare, Zakat is the best welfare system since the government will use it to feed the poor. No nation in the world today has it because all of them follow democracy or secularism and they become corrupt. Saudi is slowly adapting secularism, and the other Arab countries already did.
Also there's no such thing as commentary guides. Either you're muslim or gaal. If you rule a state, and rule with anything other than allah let down, you are not following the Sharia anymore.
Pakistan and Saudi Arabia examples are Tragicomedy! Other way i don’t agree this mental thing but their lack of critical thinking is somehow true.
The average Saudi citizen has free education, free healthcare, cheap gas and electricity, and dont pay income taxes. Ur privilege is really showing i hope u become bankrupt for a weak and feel how it is to be poor and hungry shame on u
Did you forget that our country got destroyed by a dictator that didn't rule under sharia. we ran away from war and qabyaalad.
Sharia kulaha. Let al-shabaab run somalia then. Lets see when your sons hands gets choped of bc he shoplifted.
Lol, funny how people like you love bringing in al shabaab to every topic about Sharia. They got nothing to do with this, come with a better argument.
>Lets see when your sons hands gets choped of bc he shoplifted.
Do you disagree with that punishment?
Why be merciful to a thief and the punishment goes to big thefts not small items like diapers
Ud rather a theif steal ur whole tv and valuable items? Okay lemme know ur location id love to take free items
Why would we want uneducated authorian kids running our government.
Is that an emotional argument😂 exactly you WOULDNT want your son to get his hand chopped for stealing all the more reason to instill in him the gravity of the crime
Sharia isn't a form of Goverment it's a body of Law which determines how that Goverment runs. Sharia is compatible with something like a Sultinate but its incompatible with Democracy because Sharia says Allah legislates and Democracy says man legislates and can't work without secularism and the Somali people will never abandon Islam. Personally I think somalis need some kind of strong leader who will unify the country, I don't even care if he's a dictator he just needs to be just and fair. I don't care what qabiil he's from either for the sake of peace in the country I would give my loyalty as well.
Federalism- too divisive and makes clans view each other as outsiders look at ethiopia that practices federalism and falls into civil war every few years
Democracy- a 1m 1v would make everyone vote their own clan and cause problems itself and democracy only works in an already safe developed and united country also in islam we aren’t allowed to follow man made laws that are against the laws of Allah
Communism- economic collapse is the only outcome of making everyone in the country share wealth and theres no successful communist country as of today
Sultanates- we are in the 21st century sultanates dont work any more due to mass urbanisation and increased population. Sultanates usually build one city and neglect everything else
Thats why i chose islamic dictatorship u probably might be wondering why, the answer is majority of modern devleped countries today had dictators or monarchs in their emerging stages also a dictator would be able to forcefully unite us like the germans, Japanese, arabs and turks did and all of those countries are highly developed now cuz in their foundation stages they had either a dictator or a monarchy. As long as he follows the laws God established upon us and isnt qabiilist. We would need a dictator to take us out of this “failed state” description on our country for a few decades then once we are stable we can revert to democracy i can name many countries that have thrived with dictatorship like Eritrea which is currently completely self sustainable and the west didnt like that so they sanctioned them but it didn’t do any harm to them since they were already self sustainable and don’t really need to trade yet they dont have as much resources, coastline, aquifers and fertile land as us
We already had a dictatorship tho, although unislam8c. Look where that led us to.
It failed because it was unislamic and the dictator himself was traumatized. He made big mistakes and didn’t listen to his generals he used all his money on ogaden which made the country weak which allowed rebels to form. 1991 could’ve been prevented if siad barre killed any person who speaks about qabiil but he himself was qabiileyte which was the problem from the get go
What is preventing an Islamic dictatorship to morph into an oppressive regime that oppresses people like Sufis and attacks countries like Kenya in the name of Islam? The Islamic Court Union had a noble dream of forming a Muslim state, a faction broke off from that same union and became Al Shabaab. We all saw how that turned out.
What is stopping any government from turning into tyrants? Theres something called constitution which the government and citizens have to abide by law
My brother, there is no constitution in a dictatorship. A dictator can do whatever he please as long as his military backs him. Case in point, Siade Barre.
Have u never heard of constitutional dictatorships? And if ur so against it what do u see as a better solution that is not haram (democracy)
A government like Malaysia's would be nice. What I think what you want is a "political strongman." But when you look up every political leader like that. They are oppressive warmongering genocidal maniacs. Getting us Somalis to get along by force is a recipe for political disasters. Siad Barre tried already. You sound bloodthirsty, you can't just go around killing every political opponent (in this case, qabiilists) and expecting peace to come. Even if you achieve it, you'll continue living in paranoia, thinking that things will spiral out of control, like China's Xi Jinping.
Why do you see democracy as haram as opposed to a dictatorship? And can you give me a current example of constitutional dictatorship?
There will always be a group wanting to rebel or start terrorism in every country the difference between us and other countries is our military is relatively weak and doesn’t have the latest weaponry. The icu was a very weak government that could easily be dismantled
I hate to break it to u ur little democracy heaven doesnt even exist. A group of politicians with the same intentions are nominated and the people believe they’re actually choosing their leaders when theyre all from the same minset and intentions
Somalia pre ogaden war was our prime. Imagine we extracted gold oil petroleum and uranium at that time
Dictatorship long term is problematic but for the founding stages it is beneficial we should be innovative and combine old ideas with new ideas for example a dictatorship for 15-20 years then a law that forces him to peacefully step down without war. Chinas economy and safety was boosted by their dictator ofcourse he had issues but thats the same for democracy which doesn’t exist
who do you trust so much to lead us without ever becoming corrupted or drunk on power. There is a reason most successful countries are democracies.
Most successful countries started off as dictatorships or monarchies. Look at Saudi they have a monarchy that has the power to go tyrannical but they dont
That’s literally the same for us but we refused to listen to the italians they built factories museums roads and so much other stuff
Democracies- built on colonisation and slavery whats the difference
Democracy is the best option even tho it’s bureaucratic and slow.
Ah yes one of the poorest states in human history and the one that created the term failed state should have a slow and bureaucratic government
Democracy works where the population are educated and stable. Somalia is an uncivilised society, because of three decades of none stop in fighting; you need law and order more than anything. Almost 70% of the county is illiterate, of no fault of their own, how do you expect them to judge ?
Walaal dont use uncivilized. Somali people, even in this hell like situation, are doing much better than most at their worst situations. Its easy to be civilized when you're making $50K.
Anyone who says sharia is brain dead
Are you even muslim what kind of argument is that? you are more islammphboic than cnn lmao
It’s ironic that you are talking about other people being brain dead.
Anyone who’s chosen all but democracy have not learned from their past, as well as from other countries before them and right now.
I would say it especially applies for the sharia. Let’s say we implement the system to the country, we still wouldn’t solve the problem of recurring issues pertaining to corruption as well as other more complex matters that the Quran and Hadith hasn’t addressed.
There hasn’t been any arguments for the implementation of the sharia, nor the ones against an democratic government. Not a single one.
What are you talking about walaal its the opposite! Corruption is rife in democracy! You literally pay bribes and tremendous amounts of money to get elected. Those "candidates" are sponsored by rich people in turn. Its absolutely the most corrupt system in the world.
Then what’s the alternative. A monolithic theocratic state that will be doomed to be corrupt? What we can see from places as Afghanistan or the land across Syria and Iraq is a proof by itself that implementation of the sharia will not fix the problem.
The only way to solve it is to completely reform ourselves from the beliefs pulling us back from progress.
Sharia is known by all Somalis living or dead for 1300 years. Democracy is a new tool used by the imperialists to steal the wealth of nations. At least Sharia states the leaders cant steal, kill unjustly, use riba, etc and people are knowledgeable about the quran throughout he country. Anything to do with democracy is garbage. Even a qabil state is better.
Its been proven that nations under sharia can thrive thats why the west is against it. And what beliefs are these?
This ‘us vs them’ mentality is a good distraction from many other atrocities that our societies has done before. My point is that no one has a clean track-record, but look at the present now and tell me which sharia-abiding state has been thriving now, with the exception of the Arabic gulf countries
No country uses sharia like them. Only the Gulf Arabs. Sunni sharia close to what the early Muslims did. The last to do it was the Ottomans.
The 'us vs them' is used by the west daily to committ atrocities.
Sunni Islam, Shia Islam whatever…. I doesn’t matter which are more accurate to how the companion followed the religion.
What I’m pointing was a single factor that would be a huge problem. You are simply being naive to think that Somalia would not have ended up as Afghanistan if they went that road of becoming a theocracy.
And also, even if the west is bad, hey! There are planning to send people to Mars in this decade, while we in Somalia has barely even standing after recovering from the 30 years worth of war & corruption
Why are arab gulf countries an exception?
Bro you don't know what sharia is look at uae and Qatar does it look like their country is from the stone age that can't handle modern problems?
Well, let’s not consider the fact that their entire wealth has been reliant on the abundance of fossil fuels. And also forget about the countless violations of human right that has happened, most notably in the construction of 2022 World Cup stadium that has been built by migrant workers
So what Europe's democracy got their wealth from colonism and slavery. Do you seriously think that Europe doesn't exploit cheap workers overseas for their big companies that earn billions. Did you forget about the war on terror and how they slaughter a million civilian for so-called wmd that never existed isn't that human right violation, and this all happens under a liberal democracy. You see, when religious morals are not respected, we get worse off.
Sharia is a system that protects the community. we can have any economic system under it, no problem.
What has war on terror anything to do with the situation that Somalia is undergoing? You clearly are not considering the repercussions that will come from implementing the sharia or any laws from religious texts. It’s a bad gamble that has already shown to not work
Because you were talking about human rights, and i just find it incredible that you believe Western propaganda. When it comes to sharia, you keep looking for an excuse to deny sharia. Sharia is an islamic framework to govern a country. It's not a gamble when it has worked for centuries. At this point, I wonder if you even trust the word of Allah. What repercussions are you even talking about? countries like saudi arabia UAE Qatar Bahrain kuwait oman are doing fine no wars, and are active in the global economy.
Stating these countries, that are here today only because of the access of fossil fuel is not supporting your stance at all. Also the reason the Muslim-occupied regions grew across the centuries was for a good part of it due to the trans-Saharan slave trade that took place during the ottomans. Here’s a link of one took place in Saudi Arabia in so recent as 20th century
Bro, what has this to do with Sharia? Do you think our hands are clean? we also had traded slavery. We also have oil. Yet we are nowhere near countries like the UAE. You know we trusted democracy and socialism over Sharia, and it corrupted the people with greed and hunger for power. These things are totally unislamic and it has failed somalia.
Even if we had the resources needed for a thriving state that would score high on all metrics economically, we would not have succeeded, given the fact that the likes of Taliban exists, which hold one of the world’s top opiate sources, while still regressing severely due to their decision to have a theocratic government.
Even if hypothetically the whole Islamic world would unite into one single country with size like that of the ottomans, it would still crack down given the already heated partisan tendencies that Muslims has to one another in regards to how Islam should be interpreted or even prejudice against people of differing ethnicity
I never said that somalia should form a caliphate with the muslim world. Pls don't name Afghanistan. They sell drugs and remove women islamic rights. The sad part is that we have all the resources needed to become a thrivinng state, but there is no peace because we don't follow our islamic moral principles. We instead focus on tribalism. What we need is a stable society, nothing but sharia will give that.
kkk bad gamble??? Theres a list of the finest nations ever to exist that ran on Sharia. No to mention the 2 finest Somali empires in the last 1300 years used sharia but its not good enough?
This is what happens when you have no critical thinking skills and just listen 24/7 to Western propaganda. This guy is just trolling at this point.
I want to learn about those empires where can i?
The quran has so many ayat about corruption u moron
Not a Somali but anyone who didn't chose democratic needs to be in Syria to understand dat.
Edit: lmao, I was joking, just wanted to show what a general lack of democracy and peace leads to.
Brother no offense to you, but Somalia and Syria are 2 completely different stories. Syria was being used as a battle ground for multiple countries to have proxy wars (US vs Russia/Saudi vs Iran). America and Saudi funded groups like the FSA and jabhat nusra while Iran and Russia funded the government and other pro gov militias like hezbollah. Syria is also a very diverse country with different religions and ethnicities, while Somalia has 1 religion, 1 ethnicity and 1 language. We were united by the Islamic Courts in 2006 with Sharia, but they ruled for less than a year because ethiopia invaded us. Our country would go very well with Sharia.
Syria is a secular state????
Oh for gods sake......
I don't know why you get so upset give a proper argument atleast.
You don’t even know basic Somali history to understand that under the ICU it was a very prosperous time for Somalia
It's not a must I should know lmao. Just reading the Wikipedia article on Somalia? Ezzz.Prosperity being proportional to what? Living standards?
Somalis should just have like a King or Sultan who rules the country I don't even care at this point, I used to care about trying to get a democratic rule but when I realized that Democracy can't succeed without secularism I gave up. Our country is a mess and it's failing at every attempt to do Democracy we need a leader who is going to unify the broken states into a prosperous country
The problem is which clan would be the monarch?