T O P

The final thought at death determines your rebirth?

The final thought at death determines your rebirth?

Light_Wins

I don't believe Gurbani means it in a literal sense that what you think of at death determines your rebirth. I believe the message being conveyed is that if for example, your thoughts throughout your life (up until death) are consumed with greed, then you will not receive liberation and then come back in to reincarnation. Same goes for lust, pride, attachment, and anger. Being consumed by these thoughts will take us away from liberation and thus when we meet our end, most likely we will not be liberated due to the walls of negativity we have built up throughout our lives and therefore will be sent back to this world to try again.


xLev_

Yeah


frankensteinxiii

Yes, by waheguru's grace and consistent practise a Sikh always dwells upon the name of the lord. Waheguru. The following Shabad from Guru Granth Sahibs sums up the afterlife based on the thoughts during the last minutes of life. ​ >*Anth Kaal Jo Lashhamee Simarai Aisee Chinthaa Mehi Jae Marai ||* > >At the very last moment, one who thinks of wealth, and dies in such thoughts, > >*Sarap Jon Val Val Aoutharai ||1||* > >Shall be reincarnated over and over again, in the form of serpents. ||1|| > >*Aree Baaee Gobidh Naam Math Beesarai || Rehaao ||* > >O sister, do not forget the Name of the Lord of the Universe. ||Pause|| > >*Anth Kaal Jo Eisathree Simarai Aisee Chinthaa Mehi Jae Marai ||* > >At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts, > >*Baesavaa Jon Val Val Aoutharai ||2||* > >Shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. ||2|| > >*Anth Kaal Jo Larrikae Simarai Aisee Chinthaa Mehi Jae Marai ||* > >At the very last moment, one who thinks of his children, and dies in such thoughts, > >*Sookar Jon Val Val Aoutharai ||3||* > >Shall be reincarnated over and over again as a pig. ||3|| > >*Anth Kaal Jo Mandhar Simarai Aisee Chinthaa Mehi Jae Marai ||* > >At the very last moment, one who thinks of mansions, and dies in such thoughts, > >*Praeth Jon Val Val Aoutharai ||4||* > >Shall be reincarnated over and over again as a goblin. ||4|| > >*Anth Kaal Naaraaein Simarai Aisee Chinthaa Mehi Jae Marai ||* > >At the very last moment, one who thinks of the Lord, and dies in such thoughts, > >*Badhath Thilochan Thae Nar Mukathaa Peethanbar Vaa Kae Ridhai Basai ||5||2||* > >Says Trilochan, that man shall be liberated; the Lord shall abide in his heart. ||5||2||


recovering_spaz

Do the goblins and animals need to reincarnate as humans to be able to find their way back to God? Or are they able to worship as they are?


mrsingh59

ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ॥ This human body has been given to you ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ॥ This is your chance to meet the Lord of the Universe. ਅਵਰਿ ਕਾਜ ਤੇਰੈ ਕਿਤੈ ਨ ਕਾਮ॥ Nothing else will work. ਮਿਲੁ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਭਜੁ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮ ॥੧॥ Join the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy; vibrate and meditate on the Jewel of the Naam. ||1|| (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji - Ang 12) I believe that one needs human birth to receive instruction from Guru Ji and meditate upon Waheguru’s name.


N1Wukong

The SGGS is poetry these sections of quotes are mistranslated and taken too literally. Its just an analogy thats basically saying theres so many forms of reincarnation don't waste your chance its not meant to be taken literally. One of the verses were actually more along these lines. The serpant thinks about wealth at the very last moments and dies in these thoughts causing them to be reincarnated over and over. Also a prostitute is not a life form and goblins aren't real lmao how can you be reincarnated as one. Man these are so badly translated and taken too literally.


Sikh_Sophists2020

Actually, there's a salient principle here which you have missed in comprehending that Shabad and that is your translation ignores the Rahaao verse: ***ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲਛਮੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥*** ***ਸਰਪ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੧॥*** ***ਅਰੀ ਬਾਈ ਗੋਬਿਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਤਿ ਬੀਸਰੈ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥*** ***ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥*** ***ਬੇਸਵਾ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੨॥*** ***ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲੜਿਕੇ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥*** ***ਸੂਕਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੩॥*** ***ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੪॥*** ***ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਮੰਦਰ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥*** ***ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥*** ***ਬਦਤਿ ਤਿਲੋਚਨੁ ਤੇ ਨਰ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਪੀਤੰਬਰੁ ਵਾ ਕੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸੈ ॥੫॥੨॥*** The conventional simplification runs, “Upon nearing death, one who remembers wealth is reincarnated as a serpent; do not renounce the Name of the One who made Creation possible. Upon nearing death, one who remembers a woman is reincarnated as whore. Upon nearing death, one who thinks of his property is reincarnated as a ghost…One who remembers the Lord though will never be reincarnated.” \-Guru Granth, 526. The moral and philosophical contradictions of such a translation aside, the entire simplification runs contrary to *Gurmat. Gurbani* emphatically rejects Reincarnation as evinced by the *Rehraas* litany. Various schools of Vedism pronounce that Reincarnation exists only while attachment to an illusory empirical world exists. *Gurmat*, however, declares the empirical world to be as true as its Maker thus dismissing the renunciative emphasis of Vedism. In lieu of the latter, it propounds Reincarnation to be a literary adjective for describing human behavioral modalities. Thus the behavioral aspects which form a nuclear aspect of our individuation (and not cognition) lead us astray in our day-to-day life. The *Rahaao* verse here is: ***ਅਰੀ ਬਾਈ ਗੋਬਿਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਤਿ ਬੀਸਰੈ ॥***  The *Naam* referred to in *Gurbani* is not Vedism’s phraseology of repeat chanting emulated by the *Nirmala-Udasi* combine and corollaries. *Naam* in *Gurbani* is, ***ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਾਵਣ ਜਾਉ ਤੀਰਥੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਹੈ ॥ ਤੀਰਥੁ ਸਬਦ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਹੈ ॥*** “My pilgrimage is my own. It is within me and is my *Naam*. This *Naam* is the ever flowing fountain of *Gian* (wisdom) emanating from within me.” \-Guru Granth, 318. In light of the above verse, what Trilochan’s *Rahaao* verse is proclaiming is actually: “Do not forget the *Gian* installed within you by your Maker.” Then, “Do not forget the *Gian* seeded within you by your Maker. One who forgets this *Gian* adopts the traits of a snake said to reside atop mounds of gold. The obsession of a pimp with a prostitute and, the flagrant disregard of a prostitute. Such a one becomes as anxious as the spirit said to haunt the ruins of castles and mansions built by nobles past. Their life is as fraught with fear as a swine’s is for its multiple offspring. Yet remembering the *Gian* and living that *Gian*\-one does not waste this precious life in such mental states.” The principle of comprehending *Gurbani* *only* through *Gurbani* can also be applied here: The term ***ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ***  is literally translated as meaning “the end of life.” Yet *Gurbani* utilizes it to mean a final opportunity, ***ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਸਦਾ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥*** ***ਅੰਤ ਕਾਲਿ ਤੇਰਾ ਬੇਲੀ ਹੋਵੈ ਸਦਾ ਨਿਬਹੈ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥*** “Your final opportunity is your most loyal companion. It will forever be with you. Make your mind accept its presence.” \-Guru Granth, 601. ***ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ***  is essentially a revamped metaphor for human life. The final opportunity here does not refer to the individual’s life being some state at the tail end of a Reincarnation circle. ***ਭਈ ਪਰਾਪਤਿ ਮਾਨੁਖ ਦੇਹੁਰੀਆ ॥*** ***ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਮਿਲਣ ਕੀ ਇਹ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਰੀਆ ॥*** “This life, and this life alone, is the only opportunity to meet your Maker. Recognize its worth and live duly so.” \-Guru Granth, 12. The human life is the one and only-the final-opportunity to integrate with *Hukam* and in doing so reflect the Creator’s virtues tangibly. There is no opportunity after this as neither Reincarnation nor any Ressurection exists *ipso facto. Bhagat* Trilochan is imploring the reader to comprehend that this life is a one-off. An ***ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ .*** There is no return after it is extinguished. Why then are individuals regressing into bestial states and denying their supreme cognition; their inner *Gian*?


xLev_

You believe Sikhi doesn’t believe in reincarnation?


Sikh_Sophists2020

Affirmative. I also believe, for the record, that Sikhi doesn't believe in a physical afterlife/heaven/ressurrection before any fringe lunatics on here start the "but that's Abrahamic" rave.


Chakvi

That is from Gurbani, but it’s only one of various descriptions of what happens after you die. Its emphasis on purifying your thoughts, focusing your attention, etc. reflects an attitude fundamental to Sikhi, but it would misrepresent popular Sikh practice to overemphasize it in a specific, literal sense. EDIT: This is just my imperfect view. Forgive me for my mistakes.


N1Wukong

Just to clarify (check frankensteinxiiis comment for the full context). The SGGS is poetry often sections are mistranslated and taken too literally. Its just an analogy thats basically saying theres so many forms of reincarnation don't waste your chance its not meant to be taken literally. One of the lines were actually more along these lines. The serpant thinks about wealth at the very last moments and dies in these thoughts causing them will be reincarnated over and over. Also a prostitute is not a life form how can you be reincarnated as one these are so badly translated.


N1Wukong

Most Shabads have good translations on youtube which is basically our SGGS hymns being sung otherwise the SGGS translations on sites that i've seen haven't been to great...


BeardedNoOne

ਜਿਨਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਬੂਝਿਆ ਮਰਿ ਜਨਮੈ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Those who do not become Gurmukh do not understand the Naam; they die, and continue coming and going in reincarnation. ||1||Pause||. So your question, about where we go, is kind of a weird one and misses the point. The point is to meet Waheguru Ji, for the mind to experience him, mind hear his Naam (voice), mind drink Amrit, and the mind see Waheguru Ji. So keep that your focus. If you focus on Maya your whole life you wont be able to magically switch at the end of it. The example I use is someone may have alot of information about swimming and treading water, but if they wait until the day of the test to actually do it, they will fail. That's what Guru Sahib is telling us: experience Waheguru Ji now, during your life, so you have peace now, and the afterlife. Don't wait until the end and guess. Experience things now. Don't fall into the trap of the world where you have to think a certain way and then hope for something in the end; experiencing it now will be the best test for you. SGGS says that you have to learn how to die while alive. Gurmukhs come and go as they please even while alive. ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ਨਿਸੰਗੁ ॥ gurmukh aavai jai nisa(n)g || The Gurmukh comes and goes without fear. Keep in mind Waheguru Ji wants us to meet and join with him. Reincarnation only happens if you don't do that in this life. The test is to see and experience Waheguru Ji while living your life - literally see the light. ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਹੈ ਸੋਇ ॥ Amongst all is the Light-You are that Light. ਤਿਸ ਦੈ ਚਾਨਣਿ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਚਾਨਣੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ By this Illumination, that Light is radiant within all. ਗੁਰ ਸਾਖੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ Through the Guru's Teachings, the Light shines forth. ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੁ ਆਰਤੀ ਹੋਇ ॥੩॥ That which is pleasing to Him is the lamp-lit worship service. ||3||. But to answer your question, it's about where you've spent your breaths and the "shops" of rajo, sato, and tamo. More info here. https://youtu.be/KtJ6otuBe-s


BeardedNoOne

Sorry I just reread your post. I will try to simply what I posted. Out thoughts and focus determine where were going to go. There are three types of thoughts/types of people: 1) "wind" - anxiety, worry, hopes, desires, etc. 2) "water", forgiveness, mercy, kindness, etc 3) "fire" - lust, anger, greed, etc. We obviously want to spend most of our time in the water category. However, that is not as good as the fourth state, Naam padarat (the state of Naam), where we in a thoughtless state listening to the celestial sounds and observing the divine light. We focus on the formless one (no shapes or colors). That is true gurmat meditation. Now, we can experience the above while out completing our day to day life, and also while we sleep. (Ek drist v. Sum drist). In this way, we've learned how to "die" and we will be certain that we will experience the same in our afterlife. For those who do not practice the above, they are deluded by illusion (Maya), and are in thoughts and connection with objects (akar), and then they will be born again based on where ever they spend the most time.


AsilentUser

Some thoughts always runs in our mind, even old people in their death bed might be remembering about their grandchild or child. You can not stop all those thoughts , but when they get better after few days ,everything goes as it was. That's why if you only cultivate and keep waheguru as the most dear being and then slowly your thoughts will also starts to move towards waheguru ,and sometimes people Just say name of waheguru even when they didn't thought that . Remembering waheguru is not just a thought, it's also an experience ,so as you keep more naam into your life, and your experience with waheguru will only grow more and more. Experiences is hard to forget and that which you experience daily becomes almost impossible yo forget, that's why even our guru ji says to remember naam in every moment.