What do I even say here

What do I even say here


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Flagg Center Church fondly remembers the Dark Ages


Is that the *Randall* Flagg Church? Should we be worried?


[That](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1831804/)'s the first thing I thought of. It's a shame CBS cancelled it.


Whaaaat!? How can this be the first I've heard of this being a thing and in the same comment get it taken away! I might just got back to bed and call today a write off..


It would have been better if it was cancelled. For your own sake, pretend it does not exist. Seems to have been produced entirely by people who were ignorant of / hated the source material. Except Tom Cullen is A-1 top shelf. Unfortunately they cut the entire portion of him and Stuart Redman returning to Boulder.


Ah that's disappointing! It was the first Steven King book I read and always thought it would make a great film/tv show. Maybe I'll just give it a reread - thanks for the heads up!


You’re in luck, my friend. I haven’t watched it in twenty years but I loved it as a kid. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gUb-wx5PO3A


Holy shit, good link lol. This one holds up quite well compared to other TV movies of the era. King had another movie on an airplane with weird metal teeth alien things that even at the time felt cheesy.


The Langoliers!


All these Stand's coming out the woodwork! Love it mate, thank you!!


This was my favorite movie to watch on a sick day as a kid. Took up most of the day and always made me cry by the end.


M-O-O-N, that spells disappointment...


I was really looking forward to it, but then the reviews were terrible.


The show was not good. I couldn't finish it, my wife did and then told me I did the good choice of dropping it 4 episodes in . And we both are not super picky about what we watch


Alexander Skarsgard carried it on his back until he couldn't.


They didn’t cancel it??? It was the entire book.


Thats what I was thinking, I just assumed it was a mini series that was never intended to keep going


I don't think they ever planned it to be a series.


It was a mercy killing. I'm not a big fan of "objective truths" outside of the physical laws that describe our universe, but that show was objectively terrible


The Walking Dude says you dumb. Lol


Right? Also: >Faith of Abraham So...Judaism?


"Remembering the Dark Ages" is "history" and we don't abide that educational subject.


Well, at least they’re honest?


The quotes makes me think they are not. They think an old book is education, and going to school is "education".


Yeah, their textbook is seriously in need of a revision.


It's been revised a lot already though.


Scientific process is the revision. We don't need religion to explain how the world works anymore. We developed something better. Religion needs to become a footnote in history altogether, much like how we study Greek or Egyptian mythology.


what they forget is that the bible has been revised many times in the past. Why do you think so many churches use the *King James version*. What part of "version" do they not understand?


They also don't seem to reconcile the fact that the biblical Jesus was a Jewish carpenter from the middle east, not this sandy haired, blue eyed version you see so often. They also seem to completely get his message wrong even though it was clear about living a selfless life to help others and put aside material possessions for that purpose.


I am always astonished by this fact. How can you read the new Testament and not get that Jesus would have despised the christian right? He was always on the side of the poor and disenfranchise and *literally said that rich people don't go to heaven*, because they are hording their wealth instead of giving it to the poor. He was basically a pacifist socialist and they would hate any modern person acting like him


They need a garbage can edition.


That's the original.


They don’t like the revisions. There are tons of variant translations of the Bible. Many in modern, plain English. It makes things more clear and they can’t harp on cherry picked interpretations. Which is infuriating because many of these versions more accurate to the accepted ancient texts.


No, you see, it's a metaphor, he was talking about being a slave in your heart. Or your heart being a slave to something, or... something. But definitely not literally directly and specifically talking about rules for slave behavior/treatment of slaves/how to buy and sell a slave. It's all conveniently a metaphor....


When God, in verse 45 said that slaves were okay to buy, He meant that each of us from the start, each have slaves within out heart. Things that we have sold or boughten that are force to pick our moral cotton. God calls us to set these free, free our hearts from slavery. And then as God goes onto explain the logistics of buying and selling slaves..... Uhhh...it's kinda like, you know, back then typos were....


Put that thing in a college bookstore and they’ll take care of that right away.


It's a bit out of date


You mean their ”textbook”.


> They think an old book is education And, ironically, the more you read their old holy book, the farther you get from their religion. So either way, they're still right, and it's still a massive self own.


*We don't need no education/ we don't need no thought control..."*


Pink Floyd were Christian rock this whole time


Nah, they think they're clever.


Kinda like how when Trump reminded everyone that the Republican Party will never win again unless they cheat….


My mom is too. She blames my college education on me being an atheist. It was actually not the education, but being around people that were from different religions.


Yes, as we gain knowledge we move further away from GOO 🤟🏽


Praise be to Juiblex the slime lord!


Honesty would be dropping the Sunday school at 9:30 and bible study Thursdays if they were honest.


That’s exactly what I think. I find that nowadays I’m more and more grateful when people are out in the open with their crazy. Saves me the trouble of finding out the hard way.


That is a savage self burn. I feel bad when I think that about religion.


I was in town and a christian rapper was performing. Someone who worked with him handed me a flyer advertising his spotify and other links. On the flyer his tagline was: "Faith Over Logic". I'll never understand how someone thinks that's a good thing.




Ableton over faith!


Praise fruityloops! !


Thanks for the nostalgia trip!




Cubase over, uh, Bitwig?


Do they also think Ableton Live begins at conception but stop caring what happens to it after birth?


> Ableton Live begins at conception but stop caring what happens to it after [^(re)birth?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReBirth_RB-338)


Fl studio over liberal education


The audacity!


Or maybe the artist since he was also a rapper.


Thinking is bad, m'kay.


That is a biblical sentiment


Because they think faith is inherently a good thing and anyone who has tackled with logic will struggle to find ways to say their faith is anything but illogical. Therefore: logic = bad.


My mom literally told me "smart people have a hard time holding onto their faith, so I say if something doesn't make sense, just gotta ignore it."


https://youtu.be/kpdHuo7YwBU I always expected as much, but this song really made it clear as day who needs religion and the futility of trying to change the minds of some people. Also it's a banger.


If he meant Logic the rapper it's kinda clever, but I doubt it.


Pretty sure who ever he is, he shouldn’t be taking shots at Logic lol


The whole concept of faith in organised religion is insanely ironic.


If you're heavily invested in one thing you simply declare that it's better than the mutually exclusive alternative. They're not making an argument (they're explicitly rejecting logic, after all); they're choosing a team


Was the rapper's name 'faith'? Maybe they were dissing the rapper named Logic.


Faith is completely useless. Its the excuse people give when they dont have a good reason for their beliefs. If they had a good reason or evidence they would just say that and not take it on faith.


My favorite was, “If the Bible says 2+2=5 I will believe it even if I don’t understand it…” or something like that.


So they are modern day Pharisees? I wonder what Jesus would think about that.


Daily reminder that not all places of worship, even Christian ones, are like this. Hell, I’ve been to more than a few Presbyterian churches that have a problem with sermons sounding too much like college historical or theological lectures, and Buddhism in general is very definitely not like the church in the picture. One of evangelicalism’s greatest “triumphs” is convincing everyone that religion and science do not mix…. They just never expected that when the time came for young people to choose between them and logic/empathy, they’d just choose the more healthy, intelligent, and kind option and never look back.


However fundamentalists and evangelical churches aren’t as much in decline compared to mainline churches.


Yes this! I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic school and while the church has many, many issues which is why I am lapsed, the version I grew up in was always very pro education and science. Was taught evolution, not to take the bible literally but as lessons to interpret. Some very Catholic scientists have come up with some of the best known theories like Mendel ( heredity) and Lamaitre ( expanding universe) who were both respectively a monk and a priest. Anglicanism as its practiced is also very compatible with Science as is the Fellowship of Friends ( Quakers). Most Christians think American Evangelism is absolute lunacy.


Once saw a church sign with "Git er done for God" on it. I really hope it was satirical, but it was also rural TN and the church didn't have a reputation for self awareness, so I'm not optimistic. I've always said that religion and science can mix, since the former answers "why" and the latter answers "how." Having said that, as an agnostic (functional atheist) scientist who went to a Christian high school, I've never really understood how one chooses what to believe in a religion and what not to. I considered myself Buddhist for many years in part because I loved how it was possible to embrace the teachings and overall goals without needing to have a deity involved. (And yes, depends on the sect of Buddhism you're talking about.) Instead of worship, it was just about being a better person and being happier. I'm assuming it's a very westernized version but is still something pretty palatable. In response to possible comments about how Buddhism can be fucked up too, yes. Absolutely. What's been going on in Myanmar horrible. I do think it's more about racism than religion though. Interesting op-ed about Buddhism and violence here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/05/opinion/buddhists-violence-tolerance.html Edit: also just wanted to share a fun fact. I went to see the Dalai Llama give a speech near the end of college. At the end of it, he introduced the red hot chili peppers who played a surprise concert. Everyone was confused, half the people left, and the other half (including me) thought this turn of events was amazing.


Religion and science **do not** mix. Religion is based on providing easy, permanent solutions to difficult questions. To be able to learn anything in science you have to be prepared to throw away long-held beliefs once the evidence contradicts them, which is the opposite of how religion operates.


Consider who *profits* from Evangelism promoting this sort of blind fanaticism. It didn't spring up out of nowhere...


I will never forget how my grandmother showed me the Sound of Music when I was seven, then when we said our daily rosary I asked her, "If they say 'Heil Hitler' and we say 'Hail Mary' do Heil and Hail mean the same thing?" She made me kneel on a wooden floor until I said 100 Hail Mary's to "apologize" to Mary for equating her to Hitler? Like no, I was asking a question about words and their origins. The knee jerk reaction to questions being asked about some religious shit was what started me on my quest for answers that led me away from religion. Thanks Grandma, you played yourself.


Exactly. I always thought if god was as christians believed, why couldn't he/she/it stand up to a little bit of scrutiny. In your case not even really scrutiny just curiosity.


But, they weren’t scrutinizing the religion. They were just trying to learn if Heil and Hail meant the same thing. It was a vocabulary question not a religious question.


>But, they weren’t scrutinizing the religion. Okay, and if you read the second sentence... >In your case not even really scrutiny just curiosity.


If anyone is asking you what this sub is about - show them this picture.


All the dumbasses at that church scratching their heads: "Now how come all our kids don't wanna come to Sunday services any more after they graduate college? Must be some kinda commie indoctrination at the university!"


Being a Christian makes things so easy. The answer to 'why is this bad thing occurring?' is always Satan.


Honestly. ‘Why did my entire life fall apart when I started pushing everyone away?’ Must be the devil, or perhaps it’s just ‘gods plan’


Not having to worry about morality either. Things are good and bad because I am told so, or because of my particular interpretation of the Bible. Poor heathens have to actually think. (ie The Good Book by Tim Minchin)


Well yes, but actually no. The answer is god. God is the author of evil in the Bible. He created the opportunity and circumstances for his highest arch angel, Lucifer, to question him and hence be cast from heaven - for the sin of disagreeing with something god was doing... Now the God of the Bible is a pretty blood thirsty and tyrannical dude so I can only image that an angel had beef with him over one of his more dubious directives. Contrary to popular thought Lucifer is not the lord of hell, that honor goes to actual greater demons (also gods creation). Lucifer is a fallen angel. And maybe, just maybe, he isn't the actual bad guy in that story. He is just portrayed that way by the manipulations of the winners in that conflict (kind of like every other major power in the world censors and edits their own history to make themselves look better to their own people). And if this all sounds like it is completely batshit crazy, well you're right. And it was upon falling down this philosophical rabbit hole and then realizing how insane it sounded that I started my sharp turn away from the church in my mid-teens.


That's Milton's *Paradise Lost*, the popular conception of Christian canon is about 50% *fan fiction*.


"Fan fiction" that is really well put.


Conservatives have to believe that higher education is really just liberal indoctrination, because that's the only way to explain the fact that educated people are overwhelmingly left leaning without requiring any self-reflection at all.


Was literally told that when I told my parents I was atheist after college.


A message from The Bishop of Gresit. ...I may be watching too much Castlevania.


>too much Castlevania That's not a thing.


“Further”. Farther=distance. Further=figurative.


You've just moved me even further away from god.


Forgive me further for I have sinned yet again.


They used "farther" because God is real to them.


But if God is omnipresent, "farther" still is incorrect.


But if god is our farther who art in heaven…


Omnipresent means in heaven and also in Ligma.


Ligma who?


sugondese ligma deez nutz




Mary, Joe mama, and Jesus


“Farter” FTFY


Not really. Not a bad rule to use but they're technically the same when used as adverbs for figurative or literal distance. https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/is-it-further-or-farther-usage-how-to-use > Further is the older of the two, with farther originating from it as a variant in Middle English. **For much of their history the words have been used interchangeably. As adverbs, they still are interchangeable when applied to distance (of the spatial, temporal, and metaphorical varieties).** Many usage guides will still recommend the aforementioned distinction of farther for literal distance and further for figurative, but there is enough recently published evidence of the figurative use of farther that it is difficult to say it is a mistake. >We understand that people who are looking for usage guidance have a marked preference for single-sentence answers. In some cases it is not possible to distill hundreds of years of shifting usage into a few dozen words. If you come across a situation which the paragraphs above do not address, there is always the standard dodge given by usage guides when no clear answer is possible: let your ear guide you.


Fuhrer = aggressively shepherding


That makes sense because my farther went far away one day when he was getting cigarettes


Is the way to vandalise this sign just to remove the quotation marks?


The real crime was adding them


God is illiterate and sensitive about it, got it.


"Hey, now" -- God


"You're an all-star, get your game on, go play."


"All that glitters is gold"


God would be very angry about that. If he could read.


I was a Jehovah's Witness for 30 years, that religion is the least educated religious group in America. After reading about evolution and natural selection I became and atheist and never looked back. 20 years of freedom so far!


Do you feel like modern information technology is likely to change this? It's never been easier to access information, but I don't know to what degree people would seek it


I can only speak about the JW religion and how they keep their people believing the the world and everything in it is from the devil(news, info, governments, other religions etc). That keeps the majority of people trapped in ignorance. Also they use shunning of former members to keep info at a minimum.... damn cults...


We dont need no education!!!


“Hey, preacher, leave those kids alone”


'Keep them illiterate and ignorant to keep them brainwashed by religion.' Modus operandi of most big religions (or rather cults in name of religions).


I don't remember where I watched this, but there was this old religious lady being angry at her daughter for not giving her grandson a religious upbringing. Daughter was like: "He can decide for himself once he's a grown up!" and grandma was like: "No, it doesn't work that way, you gotta teach them when they're young or they will never believe". Talk about a selfawarewolf. Wish I could find the source.


I wish this were true, but many people join religions and cults when they grow up. If you aren’t taught how to think, you are not much better off than a child when it comes to manipulative woo.


This is one of the most important distinctions between raising a child. They should be taught how to think, not what to think. Sadly the latter is what happens all too frequently and it really has the potential to stifle a child's ability to flourish in many areas of life, even outside of religion.


Ah but you see, a religion is just a cult with a franchise


Name-Brand cults


Ooh, an explicitly corporate franchising cult is going in my d&d game now


Reminds me of "you keep them poor, I'll keep them dumb" said the bishop to the king.


No, you don't understand. Education is the brainwashing, ackshually.


It's kinda become a thing in westerm politics too, but they both have similar goals I guess.


I wonder what they think about that at Georgetown?


God - The ever shrinking variable of explaining the unknown.


This is tapping into a very blue collar sentiment. It validates the common laborer and vilifies managers and corporate officers.


My God.


That almost perfectly sums up the "god of the gaps" idea.


More like its lingering cultural effect. Back when naturalism was new on the scene, God of the Gaps was the only defense Christianity had against it, and as the philosophy gained traction in academia, a resentment for intellectuals metastasized in Christendom. Sadly, naturalism has a share in the blame, for the way it denigrated religion during the golden age of atheism, and billboards like this are products of the culture built by those sentiments.


That’s the point, yes.


So the more we learn the less we take on faith. Sounds about right. Oh, they think that is a bad thing.


"Stay dumb, sheep"


or to say it blunt: Religion is for stupid people


Just like kids that go to college and get educated and become more liberal? Almost like knowledge leads to having more sympathy for others and being able to see things from both sides of the argument. Has absolutely nothing to do with being "brain washed"


"The liberals have taken over our colleges!" my dad always said when I was growing up. Looking back, it's funny how propagated(?) every aspect of life was at an early age.


I honestly feel like if there IS a God up there, he sees idiots like this and goes "...tf are you DOING?"...


Tbf, god didn’t want Adam & Eve to read the book of knowledge so they probably agree word the sign.


Idea for their sign at Christmastime: "When children grow up, they stop believing in Santa."


Education is ruining children.


The more educated we become, the more we move away from “God”.


If we had carried the sentiment on the sign to its logical conclusion, we wouldn't be able to read it. It would also be kind of hard to read the Bible.


When I was very young - about 7 or 8 - I innocently asked my (extremely fundamentalist) aunt how we knew our religion was the right one. She told me you never question God and to do so was a sin. Not the horror story some have, but it stuck with me. I've softened on religion as I've gotten older and came to recognize the many permutations of Christianity. That one sentence answer, however, is definitely what started my eventual antitheistic teens-to-twenties beliefs. I've said it previously but it cannot be said enough: American evangelical christianity is an irredeemable philosophy. It's selfish, hateful, prideful, ostracizing while extirpating the charity, humility, and compassion present in other traditions. It's an unholy abomination of the worst of Randroid selfishness-as-virtue and vengeful Old Testament wrath. It is ironically as harmful to actual, good faith Christianity as it is to non-practitioners. If there is any sort of hell the snake oil salesman that infected a nation and profited from it - Falwell, Copeland, LaHaye, Osteen - are either there or bound for it.


See this is why I avoid organised religion, because it always ends up like this, in my experience.


Quotes in the wrong place, should be; educated and “god”


Got education to thank for the ability to have a sign like that!


Defund the church.


Hmmm, interesting. Kinda like the general trend of the more education someone has consumed, the more left leaning they are.


I mean they tried to ban teaching human evolution on schools.


Watching the fruitcakes lose their ass in the culture war is truly hysterical.


Don’t be a sheep! But also, follow the shepherd.


This is the story of Adam and Eve - they gained knowledge that God denied them. Well, not actually *denied* - he put the fruit right in front of them and said not to eat it. That's been the whole point the whole time - knowledge sets you against God.


I mean there are several parts in the bible about how learning is very good. Proverbs 3:13. Churches like this are the ones who expect blind obedience and ignorance to thrive.


Yes, but those were written back when science didn't exist yet and humanity didn't know enough about the world to render the idea of god obsolete. It's also worth noting that anti-intellectualism has deep roots in Christianity. Already in the second century, the pagan Celsus criticized Christians for targeting the ignorant for conversion and avoiding the educated.


I have always been quoted 1 Corinthians 3:19 by people defending the position on the sign. I guess in the big book of multiple choice you can find defenses for any position.


That's the idea!


Divinity Studies. The ultimate tele-learning program.


So, the more we know…




What do you say here? **further*


It’s one thing to be ignorant of something, another to take pride in it. Doesn’t their own scripture say “Pride goeth before the fall”?


Yeah, don't eat fruit from the tree of knowledge. Shit is old.


If god wanted us to know stuff, he woulda put it in a book!


American Christianity is really a joke on its own.


Any relation to Randall Flagg?


The Walking Dude??


> The Walking Dude That's the one.


The Man in Black?


That sign belongs straight in the 1300's


Well yeah exactly. Like I grew up and educated myself and realized it’s all bullshit. Of course they don’t want you taking your blinders off.


Reminds me of the Family Guy bit where Peter keeps the printed book away from the serfs, fearful that they’d learn to read.


So pious people are supposed to be dumbasses?


I went to a Christian service with a family member to appease her. The whole sermon was about how you “shouldn’t question” anything the minister was telling you. How is that not a cult?


Martin Luther said reason is the enemy of faith, or something like that


Isn't that their main way to keep the sheepeople in line?


It doesn't even have to be that way. Mainstream Christianity (or, at least, some denominations) is setting itself up to fail by insisting on sitting in opposition to our scientific and historical knowledge of the observable world. Came back to add an example. Look at Genesis 1: No reasonable person should believe that a written account derived from the thousands-year-old oral histories of a people is a purely historical account. We know for a fact that oral histories innately involve embellishments and poetic language. We should understand Genesis 1 through that lens. All the books of the Bible should be scrutinized, by believers, in the same manner historians look at any text. Choosing instead to follow the mainstream belief of absolute literalism (justified by "Divine Inspiration") does a devastating disservice to the credibility of the text and the church


That is exactly what happens in non-literalist denominations, which is most of Christianity.




I literally screamed with caustic laughter at this one. It hurts too deep.


In this instance, point out that what they're advocating for is treating that god like an American slave owner. American slave owners also didn't want their slaves to become educated. If slaves became literate, it could lead to problems.


Your point?


borderline r/thatshowthingswork


There is some truth in that, but most likely not in the way they mean.


It's easier to control the uneducated.


I was really curious about Christianity, having grown up with Sunday school, and the general culture. I read the King James Bible from front to back, and it made me realize what a load of garbage it is. Especially when people refer to it to justify something. For example, it DOES say being homosexual is bad. But it also says having your period around people is bad. And God - the "Father" of love and goodness, is a dick. And it's easy to read all the loopholes, and broken logic, and realize the whole thing is a rough edit in order to justify a class control over others. Like the whole thing falls apart when viewed with critical thinking. So anyone who claims belief is automatically biased as an un- critical thinker by me. :p


I’m not gonna say if I’m an atheist or Christian, but reading the Bible like that means nothing Let’s assume god is real. The Bible was written by a TON of different humans, with differing beliefs, not everything in the Bible would be gods word. That could include condemning homosexuality. Don’t read the Bible as if it’s some congealed mesh of concise human thought, but rather read it as many different people writing their own interpretations of life


I will... at least commend the fact that they put educated in quotation marks, detracts slightly from their glaring statement but they are slightly smarter than most people


Is there a typo in there somewhere? I'm having trouble understanding what point you're making. (Wasn't me who downvoted you, BTW).


I think the point they were making was that since educated is written as “educated”, that it would imply that it is not *real* education compared to what one can get at the church regarding knowledge. And that instead of out right saying that education leads people away from god, they say that “education” will, implying that it is false knowledge masquerading as real education. That’s my take, anyway.


Thats exactly what it means. This post is dumb.