Am i the only one who is beyond pissed that my one son is worth 1504 a month in childcare. And no he isnt at one of the super special daycres of the world. The flat rate in NY is 320 a week.
My wife worked at a daycare while she was pregnant. Even with her employee discount she would have only brought home $40/week after daycare costs were taken out. She ended up staying home and running an in-home daycare for a few years.
Thats why my wife decided not to babysit. I was for it but she was able to list off several people she personally knew that were sued for their home daycares. Made me reconsider
Oh, you can learn something today.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/understanding-statistics/statistical-terms-and-concepts/correlation-and-causation
Talk to me again when you're smarter.
sometimes correlation can indicate causation, but i appreciate that "very smart" people on the internet like to drop this on people like they invented it
It's crazy that "if you can't beat em, join em'" still wasn't a financially sound last resort route and it came back completely to DIY or DIE. I just want to say I respect the hustle and am sorry they everyone here has to go through this.
Same here. My wife works part time as a bartender / server in the evenings so we don't have to pay childcare. We calculated that sending both of our kids to childcare would basically wipe one of our salaries off the table so it was pointless to stick them in childcare when one of us could be home with them. It sucks that I basically don't get to see her half the week since we swap kids in the parking lot of my work, but we get by. She will go back to work once both are in school full time, but then we don't know what we will do during the summer months. Camps only fill up so much of the 10 weeks they have off...and those are expensive as well.
I just wanted to say - thank you!!
Im due to give birth to twins next month and plan on going back to work at night as a server/bartender while my cook husband works mornings/days and we figure well have to switch the kids at someone's job a few times and we wont see each other but itll be doable. Everyones negative comments around me has me doubting. But this comment, in a sub im not even on, just reinforced that we can do this. Itll suck but it is doable. Ughz - thank you so much. ♡
In someways it sucks, in other ways I get great "dad time" bonding with my kids. Both kids will be in school full time next year and it feels like just yesterday we were doing the swap with my oldest when she was still in a carrier car seat. Enjoy every moment of your baby and good luck!
That's how mine was, but with only one kid. After two it would have been a net loss. She also worked at the Y running their before and after school programs, so it meant busting ass to make barely any money, taking care of other people's kids, so you could then pay someone to take care of your kids. Honestly, it's a ton of stress being a single income family, but I think it's better for the kids if you can pull it off.
My wife worked at a daycare and it wasn't worth it. Now we have two kids, first one is in kindergarten and the second is home with mom during the day. It was stressful at first thinking about paying the mortgage and groceries, car notes etc. on one income. But through budgeting we made it work, and I was fortunate enough to found a higher paying job closer to home so it's just our normal and works well for us. Also is definitely a huge help that I don't have any student loans, realized early that wasn't the best path for me and I'm so glad I didn't just "stick it out" and throw my money away to wind up doing a job that doesnt require anything other than clean urine and a specific skill set.
I'm lucky enough to work remotely, so we were able to drop down to one car. Told my wife, in the off chance we both need a car at the same time, I can just take an uber if I really need one. I can take a shit ton of Ubers before that starts to not work out for me. In the years since we've done that, I think we had a conflict we couldn't schedule around like twice.
This was me. I sacrificed my career to raise my boys because I was only coming out ahead $100 a month. In hindsight though that only lasts a couple years and after that I would have been earning more, so I guess take that with a grain of salt.
Here’s what’s really wild - the center doesn’t make money and the teachers are getting paid $15 to $20 an hour.
Outside of those that qualify for sliding scale there are little to no subsidies in NY. At a minimum you would think you could claim your total dollar amount spent as tax exempt but no dice.
Contact your federal, state and local representative and let them know how you feel.
That's what I don't get. Everything is so expensive that we can barely afford it. But somehow workers don't get paid, and businesses are barely profitable? Like where is the money going?? Rich people obviously, but how?
Why does my $17 hamburger that takes 5 minutes to make and cost $4 in ingredients not make enough money to pay the cook and the waiter minimum wage? Why does 20 people paying $1500 a month somehow evaporate into thin air when the daycare balances their books? Why does a $4 coffee that cost $0.50 to make not make a business enough to keep their doors open?
Like what the fuck is going on?
If they're paying people so little, and it costs so much, how do you explain that the center doesn't make any money? Not saying you're wrong, but it just doesn't make any sense to me and I'm genuinely curious.
Overhead like insurance (a lot of insurance because kids get hurt), rent, utilities, playground maintenance, building maintenance, toys, swings, strollers, company paid benefits.
My wife worked at a daycare for a few years when we’re first moved here. And she became friends with the girl who ran the books and found that half the money is gone before paychecks go out.
The owner who worked 60 hours a week was making less than 100k.
Cash flow and the owners paycheck are not the whole picture. Most tax strategies have owners making less than $100k on payroll and taking the rest as distributions. I’m sure there are a lot of daycares that struggle but most that I’ve seen the books for have owners making wildly more than their staff.
I sat on a board for a west side center - the only period we were barely above break even was if we were at full capacity year round and had more than 50% of students as full pay (no sliding scale).
The fixed costs are very high - think rent/real estate, facility upkeep, utilities and the absolute back breaker of varying insurances.
Safe ratios mean you need 2.5 teachers for every 4 kids under two at all times and 2 for those 2 - 5. That really depresses overall capacity. There is a shortage of teachers (shocker) meaning even if your center has space you may not be able to staff up to adequate levels to actually open the class
Sliding scale - a very important asset for those families that don’t make enough to cover the cost of childcare. They pay an adjusted cost and the state picks up the rest. The “rest” does not equal full tuition. This means every sliding scale kid is actually a loss and you need more than 1 fully paying student to offset and break even. We would never turn a sliding scale kid away which meant our particular center usually operated at a loss.
We ran very lean on support staff - one director and one LPN who also was an admin support. Both would frequently cover as floating teachers.
Back of the envelope math: 12 hour hour operating day for a class of 8 infants means a fixed labor cost of 5 teachers. Even at 15/hr that means each kid owes $75 per day just to pay your teachers. That would be $375 a week and doesn’t include all of the fixed costs listed above.
Planet Money, an economics podcast from NPR, did a story on exactly this. They actually end up calling babies "loss leaders" and talk about how maybe there should be a loan system for daycare. Entertaining and informative:
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/02/1153931108/day-care-market-expensive-child-care-waitlists
That's just baffling. When I was little in childcare, it was \~20 unsupervised kids.
The monsters there would come up and punch me in the face, or touch my breasts, throw heaving objects at the head, and the teachers did nothing.
Where does the money go? Were things different in the early 00's?
Its income inequality. Americans have been falling behind since the 1960s. Wages are just too low across the board. The corporate sector loves it because of increased profits. It leads to situations like this where underpaid people can barely make ends meet and they cant afford to pay for other services that would gainfully employ others. In theory the wealthy should have a little less and the masses should all have a little more so they can afford basics like procreation and shelter. The housing industry is the same thing. There is a shortage of housing and regular people for the most part cant afford new housing because wages are so depressed across the board. So the only new housing that gets built in large quantities is all luxury.
CEO wages were 30 times their employees. Now they are 400 times. We used to tax the rich and corporations to pay for government expenses like roads and police and schools. Now the biggest corporations and richest billionaires pay nothing or next to nothing in taxes. So the burden falls on us, or we lose those resources.
One party was trying to pass healthcare and childcare for everyone. The other wants to give more tax breaks to the rich to stimulate the economy. And enough people have voted for the latter, so we can't have the former.
https://apnews.com/article/daycare-child-care-democrats-congress-2919cf689423f62d90e28f7f40de2f39
When my kids were very little we had to use uncertified home daycares because it’s what we could afford. We eventually moved “up” to certified daycares and eventually a center for my youngest. Centers are not the only option and compare to big cities, Rochester rates are reasonable.
Socialism right? I’m being sarcastic but it is a costly thing to stand up whether through a level of government or a private company.
I’ve pushed the topic with those at all levels (private and public) as it makes total sense to support. Even through the lens of capitalism - you need babies to keep wages down. Might as well incentive people to keep popping them out.
Average children per couple is drastically decreasing. Not enough people to perform jobs, so pushes wages up to fill positions. It's a long term issue. Sorry if my phrasing is terrible
Joking simplification - more future workers equals a large future pool of labor. Key term there being “future” and we’ve proven pretty bad and trying to do things for future gains.
Two kids is $500 a week on the west side of the city (cheapest I’ve found too) so after paying that, I don’t have much bring home besides my health insurance and 401K. We’ve really been considering me just staying home until at least one goes into kindergarten. It sucks. I feel ya.
Benefits like health care and 401k seem to be overlooked when making the decision to either be a SAHP or re-entering the workforce. There is absolutely a long-term financial benefit to deciding to go back to work, if that option is feasible for that particular family, evening if the pay is largely offset by the cost of daycare.
None of the above takes into account the benefit little ones receive by going to daycare, socializing with their cohort, and receiving the guidance of a professional who is (hopefully) trained in child development.
That said, we as a nation are failing our up-and-coming families by not addressing this issue. I don't know what the best solution is but doing something has got to be better than doing nothing.
Yea man, kids are expensive. That’s just how it is.
Also, once they age out of child care you should still be taking that $360 a week and tossing it directly into a savings or money market account for college. Cause you need to start getting that saved up as well.
The tuition is free*!
The reason I clarify this is that there are big misconceptions about the Excelsior Scholarship (as someone who received it for a year). You still need to pay room/board (which often is more than tuition). You also need to live in New York State for a number of years after college equal to the number of years you received the scholarship.
For example, if you receive the scholarship for 4 years, you need to spend the next 4 years after graduation living and working in New York State. So if you plan to move immediately after graduation, take that into consideration!
I agree. My son goes to Mcc and lives at home. He did get the excelsior scholarship but we still ended up paying over 1000 out of pocket for fees and books. If he wanted to live on campus would have been a few more thousand out of pocket. College is way too expensive.
Another annoying piece: if you receive an academic scholarship covering 50% of tuition, but also receive for the Excelsior Scholarship: you still only get free tuition.
That academic scholarship often can't be applied to other fees/room/board, so it's almost as if you never received it. And all it does is stop somebody ELSE from receiving it and benefitting from it.
I’m so out of touch with college, that’s really good to know. The 529B not only covers the tuition costs, but if she got a full scholarship somehow, the money can be used towards room & board, food, equipment, books. If she decides she wants to go to a vocational school, I could use the money towards that too. Ultimately, if she decides she doesn’t want to go to school, she will have chunk of money (that will be taxed) to do what she wants with.
Also need to point out that the Secure Act 2.0 allows for 529 plan contributions to be rolled over into a Roth IRA. The problem with this would be that if the party in power changes in Congress, that could be reversed.
I also have two retirement accounts, one I started at 20 when I got my first got into my career. The earlier you start, the better off you will be for any sort of investment. (Thanks, Dad)
[Can’t go wrong there](https://media3.giphy.com/media/xT1R9OP0NzCrqhXfRS/giphy.gif?cid=2154d3d726t3s3nbuaxgtrnvnox6gjumznqfd27fz1dxi690&ep=v1_gifs_related&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
I'm more upset that the credit for childcare from 2021 wasn't renewed going forward. A lot of people got a big chunk of childcare costs back with their 2021 taxes, but of course we can't have nice things and it was stonewalled for renewal
Also the federal tax credit you get back is insulting. Personally, I think it should be 100% deductible, instead of a credit. I mean, it’s the cost of working for a living.
And wait until 2025 when the trump tax cuts expire. All those middle and working classes people who voted for him will be getting screwed once again thanks to Don the Con. But you can bet they won’t remember that it was Donnie who screwed them and will blame whoever is in the White House.
Which is likely why he wanted them to expire in 2025 because he thought he'd win another term so it would either be a Democrat getting the blame or another Republican
My husband and I chose to work things out on one income rather than use childcare. I stayed home with our oldest, and he stayed home with our youngest so that I could jump back into work again. Once the youngest was in preschool, he went back to work as well.
So we both took a hit on our resume timeline, but no one ever blinked once explained.
We were of course broke during one income times, and luckily had family to help in a few emergencies. But my kids appreciate living frugally as a result and ate some amazing bargain hunters. They say being poor as kids taught them how to hustle.
I’m glad I made that choice and would do it again. It was cool having my main job being a parent. I took it seriously, and I see the focus paid off in who my kids grew to become as adults. I know I made the right choice and recommend it.
Friends of ours own a daycare. We paid around $1100/month, their regular rate no special deals for us. Its a regular center, not run out of their home.
I didn't get the impression they made a large profit from it. Childcare is expensive.
When the GOP is in power, they ride for corporate and billionaire tax cuts. In other countries, childcare is free or subsidized bc they don’t bootlick billionaires and actually make them pay taxes. Blame your conservative politicians if you don’t like it, and vote socialist 🤛🏼 and yes, I hope you all feel triggered by the truth.
The tax credit was so much different in 2021 than it was before and after that. I can't believe that part didn't get renewed, although it makes complete sense when you realize what you said. GOP didn't want it to happen and a few Dem senators held it up as well. Can't have something that will help hard working citizens, I guess.
Spoiler alert- He did not put longer family leave in place. It's very much a state issue so he wouldn't have much say in that.
Are you confusing NYPFL with something that Trump did himself? Because that would be something from the Democrats since it's NYS
Let's be fair, since when does the GOP have any power in New York? Failure to enact progressive legislation in this state falls solely on Democrats, sorry.
In case you haven't figured it out yet - it's 2 wings of the same shit bird
They are all in cohoots and are offering you 2 shitty options so that you feel like you have a choice while you actually do not
Each generation will have less rights and more expenses/more taxes regardless of who is in charge
Congress somehow has an approval rating that hovers around only 20% yet has an incumbent re-election percentage between 80-90% it doesn't take a genius to see something isn't adding up....
Shit hawks... big dirty shit hawks... they're coming Bubbles. They're flying in low... swooping down, shitting on people and dragging them off to the big shit nest.
Trying to explain democratic socialism to conservatives is like banging your head against the wall. Even when I explain police and firefighters are socialist programs they still don’t see the benefit. I was recently in Oslo Norway and asked coworkers what it’s like to live in a socialist country. They said their taxes are high but everything is paid for so they are overall super happy people. They also don’t have a huge disparity between rich and poor, as it’s somewhat even across the board. Pretty wild how shitty we have it compared to what it could be
Wrong. Look up the happiest countries in the world and tell me what they all have in common. I’ll save you the time, it’s socialism (or semi-socialism in some cases). If you dive deeper as to why this is the case, you will find health and SOCIAL support at the top of that list. I was in Norway a few months ago. Want to know why they’re so fucking happy? Go ask them. They’ll tell you what they receive in return for taxes. The list goes on and on. The US works against us dude
This isn't Norway. And we do not have the population of Norway.
But you should go ask Californians how all their semi-socialist policies and laws are working out, and ask why many businesses and residents are fleeing the state.
They're fleeing the state because living in-between two systems gives you the choice to move to where you have the advantage. People are self motivated... if paying school taxes was optional if you didn't have kids.. how many people would opt out despite knowing their choice is part of why schools will be underfunded and thus there will be effects in the years to come based on the development of all the kids who receive the underfunded educations...
Semi socialist policies in a single state of a country along with the complicated realities of our government are no more an experiment in the effectiveness of democratic socialism than dipping a moldy hotdog in watered down mustard is a good way to figure out if you like mustard.
Like doing ten situps in an attempt to rehab after limited movement for years, feeling incredibly sore to the point of excruciating pain... and then arguing that exercise just isn't relevant for someone in your situation... and to just look at how much pain you're in.
It's the smart thing to do for sure, but you're only saving the taxes on that $5000. It is probably worth like $100-250 at best at the end of the year, depending on your income bracket.
320$ per week is about $16 hourly for 20 hours (lower pay but mid-hours). It doesn't even cover their drive/gas time if they watch your son for 4 hrs M-F. I'm sorry, but that seems fair.
I know a lot of people put down the YMCA but I highly recommend applying for financial aide for childcare with them.
Their program is good and they gave me a much larger discount than anticipated.
And, yes, childcare is ridiculous.
This is the cost of daycare. Where I live that would be a bargain.
Vote Democrat if you want higher tax credits or subsidized child care. Republicans don't care about your problems, just your morals.
Childcare is expensive. This isn’t new. If you have a child young enough for day care, they were probably born within the last few years and well…we all know what the last few years have been like. I’m not trying to be a jerk, but do parents not have these discussions before they are parents? Is cost never factored in? I know a lot of pregnancies are unplanned and there is never an affordable time to have a kid..not now, not ever…really?
It definitely sucks and I feel your frustration. It’s a major problem across the country, and unfortunately there’s no clear solution. I know in European counties like France for example, childcare is heavily subsidized by the government and tuition is based on income. Also, childcare teachers are paid a living wage and it’s considered a respectable career path (none of which are true in the US). I’m not saying it’s the solution, and part of me doesn’t want the govt to dictate our childcare needs. But at the same time some financial support would help millions of families and teachers, while also giving SAH parents the opportunity to re-enter the workforce if they want.
That is absurdly high and even more difficult if you have multiple little ones, but it could be worse. Childcare in Boston (where is used to live) ran $4-5k per month per child and the wildest thing was they were all FULL. I think Boston / MA is known for notoriously high childcare though.
$1504? For full-time childcare?
Math that out: 20 days * 8 hrs/day = 160 hours. $1504 / 160 = $9.4/ hour. To care for your child. This does not strike me as wildly extravagant.
The problem is not the cost of childcare but the fact that labor’s share of productivity gains in the past 50 years has been minimal. Hence wages do not reflect actual value and firms make bank off the arbitrage while regular people find normal goods and services shockingly expensive.
Childcare should be a government program. Just like healthcare. Fuck your politics, this what every fucking first world nations gets except us.
Americans work longer, work more jobs, and are the most productive society on the face of the Earth. We DESERVE better.
How about we stop subsidizing and incentivizing people to have kids, when overpopulation is a massive contributor to climate change and the deterioration of our planet?
"The Government should buy me a house", "The Government should cancel my debt", "The Government should pay for my schooling", "The Government should pay my medical bills", "The Government should pay for my kids", yada yada yada... Y'all expect Biden to come tuck you in at night, and give you a kiss on the forehead too?
There is nothing wrong with privatized institutions or markets.
I'd be fine paying for everything myself if I didn't also have to give 13% of my salary to a ~Trillion Dollar military fund that has never successfully passed an audit. Since that money goes up in flames every year, the govt can be expected to help us a little.
Noooooonne said any of things but since you brought up the subject of privatized secondary education let me educate you on the history of push back to free college like the rest of the 1st world nations enjoy, along with a national healthcare service.
https://theintercept.com/2022/08/25/student-loans-debt-reagan/
If you're going to advocate for your betters at the detriment of your commons, then become your betters or stfu.
EDIT: down vote all you want but the proof is in the pudding. Falling life expectancy, skyrocketing child poverty, including a damning report on child poverty that just came out which is much worse than most Americans thought ( by the way Rochester has scored one of the highest in the nation in child poverty). This economy is not working for a majority of Americans no matter how many shit heals want to run interference because it hasn't affected them.
I see this crap parroted online everyday. People begging to cancel student debt, free housing, cancel rent, Yada Yada Yada... Needless to say, the government isn't going to pay all of this for you, and nor should they.
In no way, shape, or form should citizens be dependant on their governments to live.
Man, this makes me nervous. My SO and I are planning to start a family soon and the cost and availability of childcare makes me pause.
Is there anything local government is doing to assist people or ensure that there is enough quality childcare in the area?
And let's not act like the fucking pandemic changed anything that much. I remember graduating HS in 2000 and thinking, 'there's no fucking way I would want to bring another human into *this* world.'
It's just baffling to me. There is no more selfish act you could possibly do in this life than to create another human because you 'want' one.
320/40 is only like 8 bucks an hour
Amazing they can even find anyone to perform the child care still. I am sure they are paying them close to minimum wage
The system is on the verge of collapse everything is so unbalanced. NYS is totaly screwed IMO
This specific problem is obviously wider spread than just NY but NY has the highest tax burden in the nation, the greatest yearly population loss, among the highest welfare spending, worst environment for small businesses and the least personal freedoms of any state as well
Child care is just one of our many issues here sadly
They make a ton of money. My wife worked at a daycare. She was being paid peanuts. These doctors would come through touring the facility looking for daycare. They would say care givers were certified. She didn't have any certifications. If she did they would have to pay a lot more. She only did it because she loved the kids in her care. After most left for kindergarten she quit. It was Gerber daycare.
We're expecting in April. We are fortunate enough to work for a 24hr operation so she's gonna go mornings and I'll go nights. There goes our quality time for a few years. 😭
Hey man I did the same thing. Worked nights at RIT so my daughters didn’t have to go to daycare. Saved a fortune and also had lots of quality time with my babes. Relationship suffered a bit but that is temporary. Best of luck
Thank you kindly. Yeah, I set up a budget so each paycheck we get we each put $250 into an account. By the time the baby is born, we should have about $10,000. So, the expectation is that we end up leasing a vehicle a few months after the baby's born. Right now, she has a quarter million miles on her car. I just bought a brand new car before I knew we were going to have the baby. It's not practical for a baby, but she knew it was my dream car and she knows we'll figure it out.
I work from home and make less than I used to at my last job because there was simply no way as a single dad I was gonna be able to pay for childcare 3 days a week.. which apparently 3 days a week is sometimes same price as 5 days a week which is not great for this dad lol.
Working remote is glorious by the way.
Look into the CCAP (Childcare Assistance Program).
Most people I talk to are shocked that the state will help pay and that the income threshold is way higher than most benefit program.
Classic complete misinterpretation of apathy towards a clearly stubborn mind as lack of intelligence.
I don't have time nor care to make time to debate this sort of nonsense with a nobody on the Internet.
Yet you have time to provide multiple lengthy responses entirely devoid of substance. I would like to have some sort of an actual conversation about this.
Remarkable how exhausting you are. A couple sentences isn't a commitment to a true debate. This isn't me debating you. This is me telling you to fuck off. Go back to your bridge troll.
Even plantation owners understood that they needed to let their slaves raise their own children so that they could replace the old workers with younger ones.
If we lose a generation of workers because people can’t afford to have kids our economic productivity will decline and destroy our economy. This is everyone’s problem.
I appreciate your respectful approach to this. However I disagree. Will it be a paradigm shift and massively affect things? Yes. Will there need to be big changes? Yes. But there were big changes needed during every significant period of transition in modern human history. Is it absolutely needed to drastically reduce our population regardless of the economic impact? 1000%.
Planet > economy every time.
Confused. You're upset daycare costs $1,504 a month? Who's making all the profit if child care is too expensive? Are there child care owners becoming Amazon level wealthy?
$1504 and oh by the way Timmy has a 100.444444449 temp so you'll need to come get him and keep him out for a week and also keep paying thank youuuuuuuuuu
This is why my wife never went back to work. Didn't make financial sense. She would've worked 40 hrs and only made like $200 after childcare.
My wife worked at a daycare while she was pregnant. Even with her employee discount she would have only brought home $40/week after daycare costs were taken out. She ended up staying home and running an in-home daycare for a few years.
Used to be a good gig for stay at home moms. Liability has made it less appealing nowadays with people suing for every little thing.
Thats why my wife decided not to babysit. I was for it but she was able to list off several people she personally knew that were sued for their home daycares. Made me reconsider
Show me.
Behold, the lack of affordable and standalone childcare businesses
Oh, you can learn something today. https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/understanding-statistics/statistical-terms-and-concepts/correlation-and-causation Talk to me again when you're smarter.
sometimes correlation can indicate causation, but i appreciate that "very smart" people on the internet like to drop this on people like they invented it
Where did you go to school?
It's crazy that "if you can't beat em, join em'" still wasn't a financially sound last resort route and it came back completely to DIY or DIE. I just want to say I respect the hustle and am sorry they everyone here has to go through this.
This is what my mom did in the olden days since they let me attend for free if she worked there.
This is the most punk thing I've seen today. Y'all are godly
Same here. My wife works part time as a bartender / server in the evenings so we don't have to pay childcare. We calculated that sending both of our kids to childcare would basically wipe one of our salaries off the table so it was pointless to stick them in childcare when one of us could be home with them. It sucks that I basically don't get to see her half the week since we swap kids in the parking lot of my work, but we get by. She will go back to work once both are in school full time, but then we don't know what we will do during the summer months. Camps only fill up so much of the 10 weeks they have off...and those are expensive as well.
I just wanted to say - thank you!! Im due to give birth to twins next month and plan on going back to work at night as a server/bartender while my cook husband works mornings/days and we figure well have to switch the kids at someone's job a few times and we wont see each other but itll be doable. Everyones negative comments around me has me doubting. But this comment, in a sub im not even on, just reinforced that we can do this. Itll suck but it is doable. Ughz - thank you so much. ♡
In someways it sucks, in other ways I get great "dad time" bonding with my kids. Both kids will be in school full time next year and it feels like just yesterday we were doing the swap with my oldest when she was still in a carrier car seat. Enjoy every moment of your baby and good luck!
Same here.
That's how mine was, but with only one kid. After two it would have been a net loss. She also worked at the Y running their before and after school programs, so it meant busting ass to make barely any money, taking care of other people's kids, so you could then pay someone to take care of your kids. Honestly, it's a ton of stress being a single income family, but I think it's better for the kids if you can pull it off.
My wife worked at a daycare and it wasn't worth it. Now we have two kids, first one is in kindergarten and the second is home with mom during the day. It was stressful at first thinking about paying the mortgage and groceries, car notes etc. on one income. But through budgeting we made it work, and I was fortunate enough to found a higher paying job closer to home so it's just our normal and works well for us. Also is definitely a huge help that I don't have any student loans, realized early that wasn't the best path for me and I'm so glad I didn't just "stick it out" and throw my money away to wind up doing a job that doesnt require anything other than clean urine and a specific skill set.
I'm lucky enough to work remotely, so we were able to drop down to one car. Told my wife, in the off chance we both need a car at the same time, I can just take an uber if I really need one. I can take a shit ton of Ubers before that starts to not work out for me. In the years since we've done that, I think we had a conflict we couldn't schedule around like twice.
This was me. I sacrificed my career to raise my boys because I was only coming out ahead $100 a month. In hindsight though that only lasts a couple years and after that I would have been earning more, so I guess take that with a grain of salt.
Here’s what’s really wild - the center doesn’t make money and the teachers are getting paid $15 to $20 an hour. Outside of those that qualify for sliding scale there are little to no subsidies in NY. At a minimum you would think you could claim your total dollar amount spent as tax exempt but no dice. Contact your federal, state and local representative and let them know how you feel.
That's what I don't get. Everything is so expensive that we can barely afford it. But somehow workers don't get paid, and businesses are barely profitable? Like where is the money going?? Rich people obviously, but how? Why does my $17 hamburger that takes 5 minutes to make and cost $4 in ingredients not make enough money to pay the cook and the waiter minimum wage? Why does 20 people paying $1500 a month somehow evaporate into thin air when the daycare balances their books? Why does a $4 coffee that cost $0.50 to make not make a business enough to keep their doors open? Like what the fuck is going on?
They are paying the CEOs and admin that money, not the employees.
The CEO of your local daycare?
And the CEO of the coffee shop
Its the building, upkeep and taxes.
Planet Money podcast did an episode on this exact problem in childcare. It is worth a listen.
Care to link for the lazy (i.e. me)?
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/02/1153931108/day-care-market-expensive-child-care-waitlists
The full story is in the podcast
If they're paying people so little, and it costs so much, how do you explain that the center doesn't make any money? Not saying you're wrong, but it just doesn't make any sense to me and I'm genuinely curious.
Overhead like insurance (a lot of insurance because kids get hurt), rent, utilities, playground maintenance, building maintenance, toys, swings, strollers, company paid benefits. My wife worked at a daycare for a few years when we’re first moved here. And she became friends with the girl who ran the books and found that half the money is gone before paychecks go out. The owner who worked 60 hours a week was making less than 100k.
Playgrounds are extremely expensive.
Yea my kids school needs a new slide and tunnel and the quote was something like $5-10,000
Cash flow and the owners paycheck are not the whole picture. Most tax strategies have owners making less than $100k on payroll and taking the rest as distributions. I’m sure there are a lot of daycares that struggle but most that I’ve seen the books for have owners making wildly more than their staff.
I sat on a board for a west side center - the only period we were barely above break even was if we were at full capacity year round and had more than 50% of students as full pay (no sliding scale). The fixed costs are very high - think rent/real estate, facility upkeep, utilities and the absolute back breaker of varying insurances. Safe ratios mean you need 2.5 teachers for every 4 kids under two at all times and 2 for those 2 - 5. That really depresses overall capacity. There is a shortage of teachers (shocker) meaning even if your center has space you may not be able to staff up to adequate levels to actually open the class Sliding scale - a very important asset for those families that don’t make enough to cover the cost of childcare. They pay an adjusted cost and the state picks up the rest. The “rest” does not equal full tuition. This means every sliding scale kid is actually a loss and you need more than 1 fully paying student to offset and break even. We would never turn a sliding scale kid away which meant our particular center usually operated at a loss. We ran very lean on support staff - one director and one LPN who also was an admin support. Both would frequently cover as floating teachers. Back of the envelope math: 12 hour hour operating day for a class of 8 infants means a fixed labor cost of 5 teachers. Even at 15/hr that means each kid owes $75 per day just to pay your teachers. That would be $375 a week and doesn’t include all of the fixed costs listed above.
So, why would any daycare center take a child that wasn’t full pay if it’s a loss for them? Is it some kind of state mandate or something?
It was a nonprofit organization so I think there is a mandate to keep that credential. Can’t remember the exact rules around it though.
Planet Money, an economics podcast from NPR, did a story on exactly this. They actually end up calling babies "loss leaders" and talk about how maybe there should be a loan system for daycare. Entertaining and informative: https://www.npr.org/2023/02/02/1153931108/day-care-market-expensive-child-care-waitlists
That's just baffling. When I was little in childcare, it was \~20 unsupervised kids. The monsters there would come up and punch me in the face, or touch my breasts, throw heaving objects at the head, and the teachers did nothing. Where does the money go? Were things different in the early 00's?
20 unsupervised kids would not fly. There are state mandated ratios depending on the children’s ages.
Whelp, this place was kinda sketchy in other ways, so I'm not shocked. They fed all the kids cool-aid and tons of other teeth rotting things.
Its income inequality. Americans have been falling behind since the 1960s. Wages are just too low across the board. The corporate sector loves it because of increased profits. It leads to situations like this where underpaid people can barely make ends meet and they cant afford to pay for other services that would gainfully employ others. In theory the wealthy should have a little less and the masses should all have a little more so they can afford basics like procreation and shelter. The housing industry is the same thing. There is a shortage of housing and regular people for the most part cant afford new housing because wages are so depressed across the board. So the only new housing that gets built in large quantities is all luxury.
CEO wages were 30 times their employees. Now they are 400 times. We used to tax the rich and corporations to pay for government expenses like roads and police and schools. Now the biggest corporations and richest billionaires pay nothing or next to nothing in taxes. So the burden falls on us, or we lose those resources. One party was trying to pass healthcare and childcare for everyone. The other wants to give more tax breaks to the rich to stimulate the economy. And enough people have voted for the latter, so we can't have the former. https://apnews.com/article/daycare-child-care-democrats-congress-2919cf689423f62d90e28f7f40de2f39
This.
I just moved up here. That shit is wild. No wonder so many people started moving south. Thats nuts. What is their logic in that?
Coming from Virginia, the daycare here is almost 30% lower than what we were paying.
Lol i'm paying higher rates in the south
Lmao it’s way more money down south that it is up here
And staff are probably making less due to lower minimum wages.
When my kids were very little we had to use uncertified home daycares because it’s what we could afford. We eventually moved “up” to certified daycares and eventually a center for my youngest. Centers are not the only option and compare to big cities, Rochester rates are reasonable.
$1500/month for childcare is pretty standard everywhere, if not cheap. Did you not look into this before having a child?
Socialism right? I’m being sarcastic but it is a costly thing to stand up whether through a level of government or a private company. I’ve pushed the topic with those at all levels (private and public) as it makes total sense to support. Even through the lens of capitalism - you need babies to keep wages down. Might as well incentive people to keep popping them out.
You lost me. "...you need babies to keep wges down." How?
Average children per couple is drastically decreasing. Not enough people to perform jobs, so pushes wages up to fill positions. It's a long term issue. Sorry if my phrasing is terrible
Joking simplification - more future workers equals a large future pool of labor. Key term there being “future” and we’ve proven pretty bad and trying to do things for future gains.
Respect.
Two kids is $500 a week on the west side of the city (cheapest I’ve found too) so after paying that, I don’t have much bring home besides my health insurance and 401K. We’ve really been considering me just staying home until at least one goes into kindergarten. It sucks. I feel ya.
Benefits like health care and 401k seem to be overlooked when making the decision to either be a SAHP or re-entering the workforce. There is absolutely a long-term financial benefit to deciding to go back to work, if that option is feasible for that particular family, evening if the pay is largely offset by the cost of daycare. None of the above takes into account the benefit little ones receive by going to daycare, socializing with their cohort, and receiving the guidance of a professional who is (hopefully) trained in child development. That said, we as a nation are failing our up-and-coming families by not addressing this issue. I don't know what the best solution is but doing something has got to be better than doing nothing.
My husband and I discussed this. Childcare is a second mortgage.
Yea man, kids are expensive. That’s just how it is. Also, once they age out of child care you should still be taking that $360 a week and tossing it directly into a savings or money market account for college. Cause you need to start getting that saved up as well.
My daughter is 6 months old and we have a 529B set up for her college
Just remember that you can get loans for college but not for retirement.
Also remember that SUNY [tuition] is free if you make under $125k a year!
The tuition is free*! The reason I clarify this is that there are big misconceptions about the Excelsior Scholarship (as someone who received it for a year). You still need to pay room/board (which often is more than tuition). You also need to live in New York State for a number of years after college equal to the number of years you received the scholarship. For example, if you receive the scholarship for 4 years, you need to spend the next 4 years after graduation living and working in New York State. So if you plan to move immediately after graduation, take that into consideration!
I agree. My son goes to Mcc and lives at home. He did get the excelsior scholarship but we still ended up paying over 1000 out of pocket for fees and books. If he wanted to live on campus would have been a few more thousand out of pocket. College is way too expensive.
Another annoying piece: if you receive an academic scholarship covering 50% of tuition, but also receive for the Excelsior Scholarship: you still only get free tuition. That academic scholarship often can't be applied to other fees/room/board, so it's almost as if you never received it. And all it does is stop somebody ELSE from receiving it and benefitting from it.
I’m so out of touch with college, that’s really good to know. The 529B not only covers the tuition costs, but if she got a full scholarship somehow, the money can be used towards room & board, food, equipment, books. If she decides she wants to go to a vocational school, I could use the money towards that too. Ultimately, if she decides she doesn’t want to go to school, she will have chunk of money (that will be taxed) to do what she wants with.
Also need to point out that the Secure Act 2.0 allows for 529 plan contributions to be rolled over into a Roth IRA. The problem with this would be that if the party in power changes in Congress, that could be reversed.
I also have two retirement accounts, one I started at 20 when I got my first got into my career. The earlier you start, the better off you will be for any sort of investment. (Thanks, Dad)
Just one of many reasons my wife became a SAHM
Just one of many reasons I will always be DINK
[Can’t go wrong there](https://media3.giphy.com/media/xT1R9OP0NzCrqhXfRS/giphy.gif?cid=2154d3d726t3s3nbuaxgtrnvnox6gjumznqfd27fz1dxi690&ep=v1_gifs_related&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
I saw on the news that a federal pandemic daycare subsidy will end in September which will result in closings making things worse.
I'm more upset that the credit for childcare from 2021 wasn't renewed going forward. A lot of people got a big chunk of childcare costs back with their 2021 taxes, but of course we can't have nice things and it was stonewalled for renewal
Also the federal tax credit you get back is insulting. Personally, I think it should be 100% deductible, instead of a credit. I mean, it’s the cost of working for a living.
It was a lot higher in 2021. I don't really understand why it wasn't renewed.
Joe Manchin, Kristen Sinema, and every Republican Senator voted NO. That’s why.
Yeah for sure and it's sad that those idiots held up something that could help a ton of Americans.
And wait until 2025 when the trump tax cuts expire. All those middle and working classes people who voted for him will be getting screwed once again thanks to Don the Con. But you can bet they won’t remember that it was Donnie who screwed them and will blame whoever is in the White House.
Which is likely why he wanted them to expire in 2025 because he thought he'd win another term so it would either be a Democrat getting the blame or another Republican
Joe Manchin (and every elected Republican) is why it wasn't renewed.
And Sinema as well
You’re paying someone (business) roughly $9.40 hr to watch your kid while you work.
💯
Its outrageous... any daycare you look around here. In the same boat, considering one parent to stay at home for a couple years
My husband and I chose to work things out on one income rather than use childcare. I stayed home with our oldest, and he stayed home with our youngest so that I could jump back into work again. Once the youngest was in preschool, he went back to work as well. So we both took a hit on our resume timeline, but no one ever blinked once explained. We were of course broke during one income times, and luckily had family to help in a few emergencies. But my kids appreciate living frugally as a result and ate some amazing bargain hunters. They say being poor as kids taught them how to hustle. I’m glad I made that choice and would do it again. It was cool having my main job being a parent. I took it seriously, and I see the focus paid off in who my kids grew to become as adults. I know I made the right choice and recommend it.
Friends of ours own a daycare. We paid around $1100/month, their regular rate no special deals for us. Its a regular center, not run out of their home. I didn't get the impression they made a large profit from it. Childcare is expensive.
Join the club.
If that's 5x days a week, that's a good price. I think we were paying almost $200 for 3 days a week. Luckily we have a MIL that covers 2 days a week.
When the GOP is in power, they ride for corporate and billionaire tax cuts. In other countries, childcare is free or subsidized bc they don’t bootlick billionaires and actually make them pay taxes. Blame your conservative politicians if you don’t like it, and vote socialist 🤛🏼 and yes, I hope you all feel triggered by the truth.
The tax credit was so much different in 2021 than it was before and after that. I can't believe that part didn't get renewed, although it makes complete sense when you realize what you said. GOP didn't want it to happen and a few Dem senators held it up as well. Can't have something that will help hard working citizens, I guess.
Trump made everything great again. He even put in place a longer family leave from work. Keep voting dumbacrap
Spoiler alert- He did not put longer family leave in place. It's very much a state issue so he wouldn't have much say in that. Are you confusing NYPFL with something that Trump did himself? Because that would be something from the Democrats since it's NYS
Let's be fair, since when does the GOP have any power in New York? Failure to enact progressive legislation in this state falls solely on Democrats, sorry.
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Agreed, but what about the Buffalo Bills new stadium? Get your priorities straight! /s
In case you haven't figured it out yet - it's 2 wings of the same shit bird They are all in cohoots and are offering you 2 shitty options so that you feel like you have a choice while you actually do not Each generation will have less rights and more expenses/more taxes regardless of who is in charge Congress somehow has an approval rating that hovers around only 20% yet has an incumbent re-election percentage between 80-90% it doesn't take a genius to see something isn't adding up....
Shit hawks... big dirty shit hawks... they're coming Bubbles. They're flying in low... swooping down, shitting on people and dragging them off to the big shit nest.
Trying to explain democratic socialism to conservatives is like banging your head against the wall. Even when I explain police and firefighters are socialist programs they still don’t see the benefit. I was recently in Oslo Norway and asked coworkers what it’s like to live in a socialist country. They said their taxes are high but everything is paid for so they are overall super happy people. They also don’t have a huge disparity between rich and poor, as it’s somewhat even across the board. Pretty wild how shitty we have it compared to what it could be
Weird because I'm in Texas and I pay $120 a week for my son to go to daycare 🤔
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Damn, y'all angry I am not paying a lot for daycare, huh?
They're mad you said something positive about a conservative state that disproves their theory
Where is the GOP in power here? Also, fuck socialism. It's not the answer you think it is.
Don’t bother, this is Reddit and not the real world.
Wrong. Look up the happiest countries in the world and tell me what they all have in common. I’ll save you the time, it’s socialism (or semi-socialism in some cases). If you dive deeper as to why this is the case, you will find health and SOCIAL support at the top of that list. I was in Norway a few months ago. Want to know why they’re so fucking happy? Go ask them. They’ll tell you what they receive in return for taxes. The list goes on and on. The US works against us dude
This isn't Norway. And we do not have the population of Norway. But you should go ask Californians how all their semi-socialist policies and laws are working out, and ask why many businesses and residents are fleeing the state.
They're fleeing the state because living in-between two systems gives you the choice to move to where you have the advantage. People are self motivated... if paying school taxes was optional if you didn't have kids.. how many people would opt out despite knowing their choice is part of why schools will be underfunded and thus there will be effects in the years to come based on the development of all the kids who receive the underfunded educations... Semi socialist policies in a single state of a country along with the complicated realities of our government are no more an experiment in the effectiveness of democratic socialism than dipping a moldy hotdog in watered down mustard is a good way to figure out if you like mustard. Like doing ten situps in an attempt to rehab after limited movement for years, feeling incredibly sore to the point of excruciating pain... and then arguing that exercise just isn't relevant for someone in your situation... and to just look at how much pain you're in.
Look into a FSA and use that to pay your childcare provider. $5000 per household. I did that when my kids were in daycare.
$5000 a year helps but it’s really just a drop in the bucket. The additional $15k for the year comes after taxes.
I know, but a little bit helps.
It does.
It's the smart thing to do for sure, but you're only saving the taxes on that $5000. It is probably worth like $100-250 at best at the end of the year, depending on your income bracket.
$1260 a month here.. im basically paying for 2 mortgages a month
320$ per week is about $16 hourly for 20 hours (lower pay but mid-hours). It doesn't even cover their drive/gas time if they watch your son for 4 hrs M-F. I'm sorry, but that seems fair.
I think worth is the wrong word to be attaching to your son.. I would think he’d be priceless. Weird way to out it..
Yes it's expensive because no one wants to watch them.
We pay $280 per week for two kids full time and are very thankful for it.
Where
In home daycare Irondequoit. She’s full. But there are drawbacks and inconveniences as well with regards to hours.
Yup. This is the major rate limiting factor stopping us at 1 kid. We can’t do this again.
I know a lot of people put down the YMCA but I highly recommend applying for financial aide for childcare with them. Their program is good and they gave me a much larger discount than anticipated. And, yes, childcare is ridiculous.
This is the cost of daycare. Where I live that would be a bargain. Vote Democrat if you want higher tax credits or subsidized child care. Republicans don't care about your problems, just your morals.
NYS run completely by democrats. So it the White House and the senate. Prices have continued to go up regardless who is in charge.
And just YOUR morals, not theirs. Republicans are the party do as I say, not as I do Democrats suck too btw
Republicans don't care about children once they're born.
Childcare is expensive. This isn’t new. If you have a child young enough for day care, they were probably born within the last few years and well…we all know what the last few years have been like. I’m not trying to be a jerk, but do parents not have these discussions before they are parents? Is cost never factored in? I know a lot of pregnancies are unplanned and there is never an affordable time to have a kid..not now, not ever…really?
At least you found childcare. We have been on waiting lists since 6 months before our child was born, and our child is now 13 months old.
It definitely sucks and I feel your frustration. It’s a major problem across the country, and unfortunately there’s no clear solution. I know in European counties like France for example, childcare is heavily subsidized by the government and tuition is based on income. Also, childcare teachers are paid a living wage and it’s considered a respectable career path (none of which are true in the US). I’m not saying it’s the solution, and part of me doesn’t want the govt to dictate our childcare needs. But at the same time some financial support would help millions of families and teachers, while also giving SAH parents the opportunity to re-enter the workforce if they want.
That is absurdly high and even more difficult if you have multiple little ones, but it could be worse. Childcare in Boston (where is used to live) ran $4-5k per month per child and the wildest thing was they were all FULL. I think Boston / MA is known for notoriously high childcare though.
We pay $495 a week for our baby. Next month she moves to the toddler room and it's only $388!
$1504? For full-time childcare? Math that out: 20 days * 8 hrs/day = 160 hours. $1504 / 160 = $9.4/ hour. To care for your child. This does not strike me as wildly extravagant. The problem is not the cost of childcare but the fact that labor’s share of productivity gains in the past 50 years has been minimal. Hence wages do not reflect actual value and firms make bank off the arbitrage while regular people find normal goods and services shockingly expensive.
Childcare should be a government program. Just like healthcare. Fuck your politics, this what every fucking first world nations gets except us. Americans work longer, work more jobs, and are the most productive society on the face of the Earth. We DESERVE better.
this is an argument in the business, public school gets so much funding while child care gets very little. it’s a weird disparity
How about we stop subsidizing and incentivizing people to have kids, when overpopulation is a massive contributor to climate change and the deterioration of our planet?
Very much disagree. The US Government is not in business to provide for you, nor should it ever.
Spoken like a true neoliberist, markets should exist, even where inappropriate.
"The Government should buy me a house", "The Government should cancel my debt", "The Government should pay for my schooling", "The Government should pay my medical bills", "The Government should pay for my kids", yada yada yada... Y'all expect Biden to come tuck you in at night, and give you a kiss on the forehead too? There is nothing wrong with privatized institutions or markets.
I'd be fine paying for everything myself if I didn't also have to give 13% of my salary to a ~Trillion Dollar military fund that has never successfully passed an audit. Since that money goes up in flames every year, the govt can be expected to help us a little.
Noooooonne said any of things but since you brought up the subject of privatized secondary education let me educate you on the history of push back to free college like the rest of the 1st world nations enjoy, along with a national healthcare service. https://theintercept.com/2022/08/25/student-loans-debt-reagan/ If you're going to advocate for your betters at the detriment of your commons, then become your betters or stfu. EDIT: down vote all you want but the proof is in the pudding. Falling life expectancy, skyrocketing child poverty, including a damning report on child poverty that just came out which is much worse than most Americans thought ( by the way Rochester has scored one of the highest in the nation in child poverty). This economy is not working for a majority of Americans no matter how many shit heals want to run interference because it hasn't affected them.
I see this crap parroted online everyday. People begging to cancel student debt, free housing, cancel rent, Yada Yada Yada... Needless to say, the government isn't going to pay all of this for you, and nor should they. In no way, shape, or form should citizens be dependant on their governments to live.
Nice use of the slippery slope fallacy. You should learn how to make an intelligent argument instead of just parroting someone else's opinions.
Who's did I parrot?
Man, this makes me nervous. My SO and I are planning to start a family soon and the cost and availability of childcare makes me pause. Is there anything local government is doing to assist people or ensure that there is enough quality childcare in the area?
Condoms are cheap, folks. Just sayin’
Pulling out is even less!
here's a great idea ..... If you can't afford children .... DONT HAVE THEM
Preach, friend! People just wanna whine about shit when this whole situation is entirely preventable.
And let's not act like the fucking pandemic changed anything that much. I remember graduating HS in 2000 and thinking, 'there's no fucking way I would want to bring another human into *this* world.' It's just baffling to me. There is no more selfish act you could possibly do in this life than to create another human because you 'want' one.
Your comment is useless.
you're useless.
Not according to anyone that matters. Hint: you're not in that list.
You say stuff like this behind an anonymous profile. You weak pile...
320/40 is only like 8 bucks an hour Amazing they can even find anyone to perform the child care still. I am sure they are paying them close to minimum wage The system is on the verge of collapse everything is so unbalanced. NYS is totaly screwed IMO
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This specific problem is obviously wider spread than just NY but NY has the highest tax burden in the nation, the greatest yearly population loss, among the highest welfare spending, worst environment for small businesses and the least personal freedoms of any state as well Child care is just one of our many issues here sadly
It's not 1:1. It's 4 infants to 1 provider, then more as the kids get older.
They make a ton of money. My wife worked at a daycare. She was being paid peanuts. These doctors would come through touring the facility looking for daycare. They would say care givers were certified. She didn't have any certifications. If she did they would have to pay a lot more. She only did it because she loved the kids in her care. After most left for kindergarten she quit. It was Gerber daycare.
The profit margins for daycares is less than 10%. They do not make a lot of money by any stretch.
We're expecting in April. We are fortunate enough to work for a 24hr operation so she's gonna go mornings and I'll go nights. There goes our quality time for a few years. 😭
Hey man I did the same thing. Worked nights at RIT so my daughters didn’t have to go to daycare. Saved a fortune and also had lots of quality time with my babes. Relationship suffered a bit but that is temporary. Best of luck
Thank you kindly. Yeah, I set up a budget so each paycheck we get we each put $250 into an account. By the time the baby is born, we should have about $10,000. So, the expectation is that we end up leasing a vehicle a few months after the baby's born. Right now, she has a quarter million miles on her car. I just bought a brand new car before I knew we were going to have the baby. It's not practical for a baby, but she knew it was my dream car and she knows we'll figure it out.
When are you gonna sleep if you work nights and your wife is gone in the morning?
I work from home and make less than I used to at my last job because there was simply no way as a single dad I was gonna be able to pay for childcare 3 days a week.. which apparently 3 days a week is sometimes same price as 5 days a week which is not great for this dad lol. Working remote is glorious by the way.
Look into the CCAP (Childcare Assistance Program). Most people I talk to are shocked that the state will help pay and that the income threshold is way higher than most benefit program.
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True, but if you're not working and not disabled then why are your kids in daycare?
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Or if you can't afford daycare don't have kids. Why is it the general taxpayer's problem?
Classic fucking dumbass.
Classic ad hominem response due to lack of intelligence.
Classic complete misinterpretation of apathy towards a clearly stubborn mind as lack of intelligence. I don't have time nor care to make time to debate this sort of nonsense with a nobody on the Internet.
Yet you have time to provide multiple lengthy responses entirely devoid of substance. I would like to have some sort of an actual conversation about this.
Remarkable how exhausting you are. A couple sentences isn't a commitment to a true debate. This isn't me debating you. This is me telling you to fuck off. Go back to your bridge troll.
Even plantation owners understood that they needed to let their slaves raise their own children so that they could replace the old workers with younger ones. If we lose a generation of workers because people can’t afford to have kids our economic productivity will decline and destroy our economy. This is everyone’s problem.
I appreciate your respectful approach to this. However I disagree. Will it be a paradigm shift and massively affect things? Yes. Will there need to be big changes? Yes. But there were big changes needed during every significant period of transition in modern human history. Is it absolutely needed to drastically reduce our population regardless of the economic impact? 1000%. Planet > economy every time.
Hmm, if only we had some sort of child care tax credit so people could get back to work. Nah, we want small government instead.
why should anyone need child tax credits if there was universal child care?
Confused. You're upset daycare costs $1,504 a month? Who's making all the profit if child care is too expensive? Are there child care owners becoming Amazon level wealthy?
$1504 and oh by the way Timmy has a 100.444444449 temp so you'll need to come get him and keep him out for a week and also keep paying thank youuuuuuuuuu
My grandma was a daycare provider for the little bastards! She was rolling in the guap
https://www.monroecounty.gov/hs-daycare
Infant for me is $415 a week....
$389/week here in Buffalo
Yeah, it sucks. :-(
Our 3 month old starts next week at doodle bugs. $402 a week for M-F. Almost 1/4 of our entire household income.
300 a week.
Don’t have kids
Damn dude, it was 375 a week for THREE DAYS a week here in Minnesota. Found someone who runs a home day care for 250/week and it felt like a steal…