I don't know if this is allowed considering the overlap of The Qult and Anti-Vaxxers, but r/Conspiracy is willing to continue the misinformation campaign about COVID 19 in order to eliminate humanity.
By - omegalemon
They also provided no proof in the post and comments. Any sources I found have been looked up are not from credible sources and totally not from trustworthy sources.
Please be aware, continue to fight with the truth at hand.
It isn't censorship if we highlight the truth. Their cries of censorship means they don't want to hear the truth of the international science world.
I don’t mean to sound callous, but is this really an issue? The willfully ignorant are doing this to themselves, I really see no drawback here. I’m kinda hoping in a few months we can all look forward to a better job and housing market, less lines at the grocery stores, less idiots in red hats screaming “maga” , “rigged election” and “fake news” at everyone. Why on earth should we try to stop this and save these people? It seems to do the opposite would be beneficial to mankind moving forward.
Unfortunately it’s enough people (not just on Reddit) that allow the virus to stick around, mutate and propagate. Eventually, after enough mutations, the original vaccination will lose effectiveness. That’s why it’s so important to hit a critical mass of people with the vaccination.
Furthermore there are people in our communities who are unable to get the vaccine or the vaccine won't be effective for them. They are trying their best to participate in public health through distancing or masks, it is tragic for any one of them to die because Trumpanzees are deciding to be plague rats
Sure, but we can take measures to quarantine ourselves, wear masks and continue to take updated vaccines and boosters as they are made available. While we do so, these guys will no doubt still refuse the shot, have a bunch of rallies, concerts and “own the lib” events and move it around even more expediently. Sometime down the road, significantly less people on the planet also theoretically means significantly less chances of catching and spreading the virus. Right?
It's a nice thought that the MAGAs would affect their own voting block, but we're talking about such high numbers it's just not realistic. Right now this country has lost over 650000 people from this disease. As horrific as that number is, it's still only one tenth of one percent of the US population. If you conservatively estimate the number of hard-core conservatives at 30% of the population, that's still 98 million people. Even if the anti-vaxers knocked out only one percent of their population in the next few months, that would add over 900,000 deaths, almost quadrupling the death toll. And every person they infect has the chance to infect someone who ISN'T screaming about "face diapers" and giving their children horse-paste every day.
It feels like pushing a stone uphill every day trying to counter the BS from the conspiracy theorists, but I think it's a better alternative than just throwing up our hands and letting them have at it.
(Someone please correct my numbers if I've forgotten to carry the 1 somewhere, math and I are not on the best terms.)
>The willfully ignorant are doing this to themselves
Except that they infect other people too, not just themselves. The vaccine doesn't make you invincible, and not everyone can get the vaccine in the first place. Furthermore, the longer they keep spreading it around, the more it will mutate, reducing the effect of the existing vaccines.
If they were only hurting themselves, yeah, I'd totally agree with you. It's kind of cold, but at this point there's clearly no way they'll listen to reason.
I don’t know what to do anymore, so I’ve just become apathetic to the whole thing. I’ve tried to help and inform these people and they don’t want our help. They don’t want anything to do with the vaccine in many cases, simply because the “other side” (aka all of us) are the ones using it. How do you save someone who would rather die than listen to anything you have to say? Wouldn’t our efforts be better concentrated elsewhere at this point? Like finding a way to keep those who can’t take the vaccine safe from these people long enough until it’s a non issue anymore? Let the herds thin themselves out, so to speak?
Until hospitals stop treating the unvaccinated, this will affect society as a whole. The virus does not have the needed mortality rate to "thin out the herd" in any truly meaningful manner. I've seen too many posts about kids not having access to ICU beds because all these inane antivaxxers. Hospitals are running out of oxygen for EVERYONE, not just covidiots.
The misinformation is killing everyone, not just the intended(?) targets, and needs to be dealt with as such.
The problem is that it spills over to others, and some of their 'evidence' looks legit if you know nothing about the original source (Which the Q-crazies and most people don't). That means that non-Q-crazy people end up believing misinformation, and it is literally killing people.
Right now a lot of them are apparently saying that the Pfizer vaccine is not in fact fully approved - because they don't know how to read FDA letters and also can't comprehend that the vaccine BLA is approved for those over 16 but still EUA for those 12-15 (and EUA for 3rd doses in some cases I think). A few months ago it was they were saying that 80% of pregnant women who got the vaccine miscarried... because they didn't know how to read a scientific paper (the actual percentage of miscarriages from the study was exactly the same as the percentage in the normal population, which means that there's no correlation between vaccine and miscarriage, and no correlation obviously means no causation.) Heck, even just that the crazies are saying that they won't release the ingredients in the vaccine (when the vaccine composition has been publicly available for the past year) does harm by making people doubtful for no reason.
And overloaded orphanages
This affects more than the idiots.
Small Business owners will die and people will lose their jobs.
Bread winners will die leaving single mothers with no skills abandoned.
It’s always vague shit from them. Share “the papers from Japan”, “data from Europe and Israel” and hidden truths
Just getting lazy and boring at this point.
Considering they had all the time to prepare that post - they could have actively linked the information they wanted to specifically share and published a coherent argument against the current vaccination
If you do your own research you get your own answers!
That's unironically the point of it all, and also why it's so hugely effective with gullible/narcissistic people. They like the *idea* of "make up your own mind" but then they just continue to believe what they already want to believe, and seek out only "sources" that tell them what they want to hear. None of them actually read papers or check sources for validity.
"Please Reddit tell me why my wife left me! Share the Divorce papers and why she took the kids!"
"Can you believe my wife left me because I berated her constantly and made our life together a toxic mess? What's wrong with people!?" - same guy, ten minutes later
The data in Israel does not indicate that vaccinations will allow us to eradicate the virus. Vaccinated people can still contract and shed the virus, and all indications are that the virus will continue to mutate. So now the path forward is either booster shots indefinitely, or just live with the virus like we do the cold, flu, malaria, etc. We must also consider longer-term measures to limit the spread of disease in general (like [this Taleb-co-authored piece](https://necsi.edu/systemic-risk-of-pandemic-via-novel-pathogens-coronavirus-a-note) saying we must limit travel, both for business and personal pleasure).
There isn't really an endgame in the current "vaccinate everyone regardless of all data" path we're heading down now. I haven't heard of any clear strategy that has a chance of working, in light of the fact that these vaccines won't be able to eradicate the virus. It's not common to have unemotional conversations about it, because people treat all dissent from the "vaccinate everyone" plan as a moral failing.
The vaccine isn't the magic cure-all that will instantly fix everything. So, should we just not vaccinate at all? It's like pointing to a car crash where someone died while wearing their seatbelt and declaring that seatbelts don't work and we should just stop using them.
I don't know why the idea of booster shots indefinitely makes people go crazy. I get a flu shot every year, why would getting a Covid booster shot every year or every other year be any different? Like, the worst case scenario is that I also get a Covid shot each fall when I get my flu shot? ...and...?
The biggest issue with booster shots is vaccine availability to the rest of the world.
Also, the booster shots vs live with it are not only not mutually exclusive, but sufficient vaccination coverage is exactly what will allow us to live with Covid as a society.
Not sure what your point is
I don’t think the scientific community is saying the virus can be eradicated, or even aiming to eradicate the virus
We know vaccinations massively weaken the link between cases and hospitalisation and death which is the most important
The virus will likely be endemic and circulate however have weaker effects due to immunity due to vaccination and natural infection
You say “live with” the virus like flu - but old and vulnerable people are advised to take a flu shot regularly each flu season, so perhaps there is a Covid booster shot made for particularly vulnerable people
The point is that there is room for reasonable debate about these things but we never get to have it because everyone is too busy fighting their idiot culture war. That's what these "anti-misinformation" vs. "free-speech" posts amount to, religious battles that distract from real problems. We're fighting an expensive and losing battle against this virus and doing so with no clear strategy.
This is idiotic. This post we're discussing is citing VAERS. If these people wanted a discussion, they would start from a nonfictional premise
But I'm here and I want a discussion. It's difficult to do because people call everything that isn't exactly what they already believe idiotic.
No, that's a complete mischaracterization, a disingenuous argument tactic you fellows enjoy to use all the time, and part of why nobody believes you genuinely want a discussion. You clearly don't. You want to lie about things and introduce fictitious sources and still be taken seriously to waste our time
What do you mean "you fellows"? What was fictitious about the study I posted? You are shutting me down for invalid reasons, it's totally hostile. Please don't lecture me about disingenuous reasoning after you spit in my face and say I'm being disrespectful.
You are being shut down for participating in fiction and lies instead of discussion. The hostility is warranted with time-wasting brainlets such as yourself. Pretending you are an innocent party "muh just asking questions" is part of the act. Everyone is aware of what you're doing. You deserve the lecture and more, your behavior is repugnant
I'm not going to sit here and try to prove to you I'm acting in good faith, you should know that you're being completely shitty right now. Quote me the thing I said (quote, not paraphrase) that makes you so sure I'm having this conversation in bad faith. You are way too confident in that judgment, you're being a fucking asshole.
It’s not a losing battle it’s a winning battle.
Vaccinations are what have helped us live with this virus without healthcare collapse
Once someone has been vaccinated next time they encounter the virus they’ll likely have mild symptoms and won’t be hospitalised
It’s as simple as that…
I don’t really know what you’re suggesting other than go back to life as normal and stop vaccinating people? Which would result in mass deaths of unvaccinated people like the states are seeing on counties with really low vaccination rates.
India for example had mass death when delta ripped through the country of mostly unvaccinated, killing millions, funeral pyres burning almost non stop
I'm suggesting that we develop some kind of long-term plan that has a chance of working. I've said it a couple times now. Vaccinating in order to help us live with the virus works for now, but we know for a fact that it's not a long-term solution because we'll continue to get variants and mutations.
I'm not saying vaccinations don't do anything, I'm aware of India, but you've got to meet me half way and acknowledge the things I said, rather than just harping on the easiest thing to argue against. I know this is the internet but I'm trying to have a productive conversation. What do you think about more permanent restrictions on international travel, for example?
I think airline travel should be cut down in general for pollution reasons but I can’t really see how slowing international travel at this point would help with Covid - or even future pandemics
You’d have to stop the travel completely, once the virus is circulating in the community it’s already here and it’s like trying to bolt the door after the horse left the barn
We will likely get future variants but it’s extremely unlikely they’d be able to completely avoid the vaccine whilst also out competing current transmissible variants
Because the vaccine targets the spike protein (used to enter our bodies cells) any significant mutations to the virus that changes the spike protein shape will mean the virus won’t be able to transmit as easy
These mutations and potential vaccine escape come with trade offs. You won’t get a new variant that avoids vaccines, is more deadly, and more transmissible all at the same time it doesn’t work like that
Vaccinating is a long term solution, and it is working!
Normally with other existing human viruses by the time adults become older and vulnerable they’ve been exposed to it during childhood and multiple times during their life - so whilst they’re older and more vulnerable their immune system is prepared.
When a new virus comes along that no adult has been exposed to they’re not prepped at all - so having multiple vaccine doses is essential to prevent mass deaths.
The idea behind travel restrictions (as described in the paper I linked) would be to completely isolate populations around the globe in order to avoid exposing humanity to the risk of extinction events from pandemics
> Vaccinating in order to help us live with the virus works for now, but we know for a fact that it's not a long-term solution because we'll continue to get variants and mutations.
You realize that until there was a big push in the early 2000s we had, because of the vaccine, nearly eradicated a number of formerly deadly diseases right? The vaccine IS a long-term plan if everyone got it and stopped acting like incubators.
Yeah but with smallpox, mumps, polio, etc. vaccinated people weren't transmitting the virus, there weren't animal reservoirs of the virus, the diseases weren't as easily transmissible nor as quick to mutate. There's a number of differences here, we can't afford to oversimplify.
That's not true. You can still carry the virus as a vaccinated person for all of those. The Mumps vaccine efficacy is in the 80s, so you can not only spread it, but also get it yourself. Just because you're vaccinated against a virus doesn't mean you can't spread it.
Measles has an R0 of 12-18, the covid delta variant R0 is 5-8, in fact the Delta variant is also less contagious than chickenpox, mumps, and rubella.
You're right we can't afford to oversimplify and we can't afford to spread misinformation like you're doing.
Israel has close to 80% of its entire population vaccinated and is still seeing massive spikes, why can't I question the validity of the vaccine strategy? I said a few wrong things about the vaccine efficacy, I acknowledge the correction you gave me, but you are still ignoring the main point which is that the plan seems to not be working
Hey, before we put out your house that is on fire, let's consider making fireproof houses.
Do they….think that Reddit has that information?
Nobody has that information.
It’s in file next to the nuclear launch codes and where JFK Jr has been hiding all this time in preparation for his seat as the Vice President.
>FDA "full approval" isn't really a full approval
I mean only if you can't read.
It's r/conspiracy, of course they can't read, at least not properly seeing as sometimes they post a link and make assertions based on it that have no connection or are directly contradicted by their own link.
Ah yes, VAERS, where I reported the vaccine turned both of my big toes and thumbs into penises and all four of my extra dicks are suffering from premature ejaculation. Totally valid data.
Sounds like somebody's been "doing his own research." ^(wink)
Hey, Reddit! Yeah, these guys please. If you wanna take a stand against misinformation, “conspiracy” looks like the perfect place to start. They’re not going to stop peddling lies until you get rid of them.
u/spez you might wanna see this
? Not sure what's happening here xD
See the r/announcements about this, long story short, spez doesn't give a fuck about misinformation saying it's a ok. Meaning more deaths.
I know Facebook isn't interested in taking down misinfo because it brings them the clicks and interaction. As con artists have figured out long ago, conservatives are hella easier both to fool and to sell random shit to.
They say they do "their own research", but then they take goddamn dewormer. A free vaccine? No thanks! A medicine meant for livestock that I have to pay out of my own pocket for? Take my money, Big Pharma!!!!
Problem is.... if Reddit bans this stuff and harshly enforces it, they're just going to go somewhere else. The issue isn't even that misinformation exists, the issue is that a good portion of these people WANT to be misinformed. They deliberately search out "alternative news".
So ofc Facebook and Reddit don't take any action. If these idiots are going to be misinformed anyway, they might as well give the big tech companies some ad revenue while they're at it.
What part of "valuable discussion" do you not understand. I don't understand how people thought Reddit would do literally anything.
I forgot I had him tagged as "Nazi sympathizer" so there's that.
He can close the comments, but not the downvotes.
Do you think the Covid Denial subs uniting would cause site-wide brigading considering all the disinformation is leaking from the cess pits of lunacy, into the rest of the site through the comments of any time 'rona policy is brought up?
Also the VAERS information isn’t hidden. You can find it in the web. However, every report of anything that happened after vaccination is on there whether there is an actual causal link. I’ve also seen the Israeli study. (When more people are vaccinated then more of the cases of Corona will be of the vaccinated, but still less suffering and death).
Can’t anyone enter a “report” whether real or imaginary into VAERS?
Yea they can I believe.
Only medical personnel, I believe, but they are required to report any adverse issue following vaccination, even if they think it's not related. The researchers monitoring VAERS investigate and determine if there is a correlation and watch for patterns of correlation that may indicate a causation. This is how the blood clot issue was discovered with the J&J vaccine. It's a lot of raw, unfiltered data to investigate.
Which only makes sense. If the population shifts towards vaccination then it only stands to reason the exposure of vaccinated people to the virus would increase. God these people lack common sense.
Yep. Report report report.
Mod of the sub has said he ignores reports from pro vax people and anti-conspiracy people. Need to go over his head and report the whole sub.
What 'data from Europe' are they talking about? I'm in Europe right now and it's not like the situation is much different here.
These people couldn't find Europe on a map, let alone real-world information.
Sick fucking individuals. They call us sheep yet are taking meds for animals. Who’s the sheep now?
Why would u call it animal med
Because ivermectin is a horse dewormer…
Too many idiots are taking the ones specifically for animals and some are evening shitting themselves. Who knows what other harm it’ll do. Go get vaccinated instead. There is no legitimate data showing ivermectin helps with COVID.
All of the data from Israel strongly supports vaccination….
It's amazing how much stock they put in VAERS since it's basically the Wikipedia of side effects. Anyone can just put anything on there. I can go on and claim I suffered from VASPES (Violent And Sudden Penis Explosion Syndrome) and they would take it as gospel. Any doctor that comes forward and says it's a made up disease will be "suppressing the truth"
Thus sub is a cesspool of antisemitism and mental illness.
I think they forget that the FDA in america is only for America. There’s a reason why Europe and Australia have different items sold there, such as children’s cereal or McDonald food, because their fda or relevant program is more strict.
Gross. Just saw a post on there as well talking about how the animal paste and hydroxychloroquine have been used for years in people to treat other things than what they’re intended for. I would really like to know who has been taking the horse paste for years?
Man I really been wanting to stir the shitpot in that sub but feel like ima get tsunami waved by a bunch of fucking idiots………think it’ll be worth it
Im so done with these people. Like completely over it
Peer reviewed studies and medical data from many independent established institutions: not trustworthy, clearly part of the conspiracy
A system where anyone can report anything: the REAL DATA
They keep referencing Israel, but their data is public. The unvaxxed are far worse off in every age bracket for hospitalizations and the seriously ill is way over double in the high risk age group.
Bruh it takes two seconds to learn that VAERS isn’t a good method to prove vaccines are dangerous.
I just googled vaers and the first article I found said this:
>VAERS is ripe for exploitation because it relies on unverified self-reports of side effects. Anyone who received a vaccine can submit a report. And because this information is publicly available, misinterpretations of its data has been used to amplify COVID-19 misinformation through dubious social media channels and mass media, including one of the most popular shows on cable news.
These are the same people that will discredit government whistleblowers because they’re anonymous and probably have ulterior motives for personal gain. The double think is strong with r/conspiracy
All the information they need to know about the authenticity of data in VAERS is right there on VAERS website, it’s explained so clearly I really don’t understand how it can be misconstrued unless these people aren’t even bothering to check it out and are just getting their information second hand from pundits, alternative media sources, and YouTube…
Oh wait that’s exactly what they’re doing. -.-
I visited that sub once hoping for cool stories about bigfoot and aliens. Much sadness was had when I learned it's basically just The_Donald distilled down to it's base crazy.
It used to be bigfoot, aliens, and all the fun stuff. That's when the MAGAs invaded.
Everything changed when the Maganation attacked.
I made an attempt and you did it better.
Conspiracy isn't even a conspiracy sub anymore. It's 100% a qanon cult brigaded sub now.
This is t_d all over again. That sub had a body count and they literally did nothing for years.
Isn't vaers an anti vaxxer site?
No, it's a self-reporting tool run by the US dept of HHS for people who think they have had a vax injury. The database supporting the tool is completely public accessible, can be downloaded, sorted and of course, manipulated.
The anti-vax community has abused this tool in an attempt to parrot a fake and very dangerous narrative.
Edit: “selt” to “self”
Thank you for explaining that. I agree it is very dangerous in the way it's being manipulated.
You’re welcome. Also, the data is not verified for accuracy. It’s meant as a sort of early warning system.
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What else do you expect out of a group of people that believe we're ruled by a secret cabal of lizard people
It's a conspiracy based sub, are you really that surprised?
Y'know, they sure do like to tout VAERS...that database *anyone* can submit *any* symptoms they've had post *any* vaccination & that's THE SUM TOTAL OF ITS "DATA". That's it. People &/or their doctors submit ANY symptom THAT THEY BELIEVE *MIGHT* be related to a vaccination.
And as we're all too aware, a lot of people *believe* a lot of really far-out shit with regards to vaccines. I almost wish I believed in a hell so I could wish Andrew Wakefield there for the wholesale destruction he's wrought upon humanity, all because he wanted to sell a competing vaccine.
But ANYway, using VAERS as anything remotely close to proven vaccine harm data is as typically a bad faith argument as one would expect from those CHUDs.