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-Buggy-D-Clown-

JJK fans though Mahito won but the winner was him... DIO


WONDERofK

Yes YES


WONDERofK

The winner was him Dio


DankTank360

Probably DIO. Mahito has no counter to time stop and DIO would spam it in character. Mahito would probably be able to see and manipulate DIO’s stand since it is an extension of his soul. DIO wins 8 out of 10 with Mahito only winning when DIO doesn’t just neg with time stop.


proxmaxi

>Mahito would probably be able to see and manipulate DIO’s stand since it is an extension of his soul. Stands are projections, not extensions.


Glittering_Fig_9319

Literally doesn’t matter dio can’t kill souls so he can’t kill mahito He also gets one shot by touching or domain


DankTank360

In cross verse scaling it’s standard to assume that powers would interact outside the verse as they would inside. In Star Wars Legends it’s established that the Force and force abilities only work on creatures native to the galaxy via the Yuuzhan Vong. Nobody seriously arguing Star Wars would claim that Star Wars would lose to all other verses because their powers don’t work outside the verse. You argument has even less merit since it is circular in nature. I could just argue that 1. Stand users can only be harmed by other users 2. Stands are spiritual manifestations of their users will so it’s reasonable to think they could harm souls 3. Souls in JJBA work differently then in JJK. Why would a power involving soul manipulation work on something it was not intended for?


Glittering_Fig_9319

dio has a soul doesn’t matter if souls in jjk work differently the world is not a soul and yes some stands can hurt souls like killer queen dio has no ability to hurt souls only punching and time stop the world can’t hurt mahito soul it doesn’t have a physical form like stands so there is nothing to punch but his body anyway You also are wrong stand users can be hurt by non stand stuff it’s the stand itself that can’t be hurt that’s the argument your talking about


DankTank360

What proof is there that DIO has a soul? What proof is there that Mahito could actually manipulate DIO’s soul or JJBA souls in general? If the souls are different then you have to provide evidence his haxs would still work. Saying both verses have souls so therefore soul haxs work is a false equivalency.


WONDERofK

Bro its a stand dumass


Glittering_Fig_9319

Because we’ve literally seen others have souls in jojo unless your saying only certain characters have them and others just don’t ???? soul hax works because dio doesn’t have resistance or are you arguing he resist all hax in fiction that isn’t in jojo


DankTank360

1. DIO is a undead vampire. He’s even stated he has abandoned his humanity so it’s not unreasonable to assume he doesn’t have a soul at this point. If you don’t have any actual proof DIO has a soul then your argument falls flat as they would just stalemate since by your logic they wouldn’t be able to harm each other. 2. Stands are spiritual in nature so they should be able to harm other spiritual entities. I’m not saying he resists all nonJJBA haxs, you however seem to think that Mahito can’t lose to anyone without souls haxs with the whole “Literally doesn’t matter dio can’t kill souls so he can’t kill mahito”.


WONDERofK

Bro ts spam with knifes? Road rolla daaaaa!!!!!


DankTank360

If you don’t have anything intelligent to add to the debate then don’t say anything.


WONDERofK

Dio is basically one of the strongest jojo characters


Glittering_Fig_9319

I guess he might not have one because undead so you can probably argue that meaning stalemate Stands are spiritual but they aren’t actually the soul and meaning the world punching will not kill him or stop him from regen mahito can be beaten with soul attacks many types of hax would trash on him but dio has none he’s literally a punching guy with time stop


DankTank360

Stands are a spiritual extension of their user and their will. Stands being so user specific plays into that. Unless you are taking the most literal interpretation of that I don’t see how that’s much different from them being a part or extension of the user’s soul.


Glittering_Fig_9319

Stands aren’t not the souls they are linked to it which is why you get hurt when stand does but some stand users have souls dio just punching is hurting someone’s soul soul abilities in jojo exist such as killer queen


darklordoft

He's not undead. He was never undead. Those are ghouls. Vampires are humans who have there latent ability unlocked by the stone mask. Just as pillar men aren't undead, just a diffrent species.


darklordoft

Because his entire heaven plan required a user with a soul. As shitty as it sounds, the stone mask doesn't fall into magic territory. Shit jjba science. It was a simple stone mask that did weird acupuncture to unlock the abilities of a human.


BingoBongoTingoTongo

Viva Reverie: “except for when they don’t”


elcamp3

Mahito isn't a soul. He's a curse.


bigfatty777

Why doesn’t he just punch his soul lol? Works in Jojo all the time


Glittering_Fig_9319

It really doesn’t because stands aren’t souls and mahito soul doesn’t have a physical form anyway


bigfatty777

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4t4MgnQBRlE/XRn_6hIW79I/AAAAAAAAAc8/0ql-2tKUX_kTuRzzv_A0lpoN6-1wXxDbgCLcBGAs/s1600/Stand_Rules_A.webp stands are ‘invisible spirit energy’


Glittering_Fig_9319

They aren’t souls tho as stand users have actual souls that we have seen stands are linked to the soul which is why the user gets hurt when stand does and you have no proof they could just punch a random human and destroy their soul Soul attacks exist in jojo tho such as killer queen


FilmAdministrative44

of tze stand is directly linked to the soul, it will work on mahito like it does with yuji


Glittering_Fig_9319

Yuji works because he has another soul 2 souls in 1 body stands aren’t souls and mahito soul has no physical form for the world to punch anyway


FilmAdministrative44

as a reminder, without a soul, you cannot have a stand and dio clearly has jonathans stand, passion.


FilmAdministrative44

a stand os quite litrraly the manofestation of his soul so je would definitely hit mahito, especially considering he is attached to jonathans body.


Glittering_Fig_9319

it’s not his soul we’ve seen stands users have a soul they are 2 separate things they are just linked to the soul which is why damage transfer happens soul abilities exist in jojo such as killer queen Also The world has no way of attack his soul it has no physical form he’s literally just a punching stand


FilmAdministrative44

exactky because they arr directly connected is the reason why the stand can hurt mahito


Glittering_Fig_9319

No they have no feats of hitting a regular human then hurting/destroying his soul or


FilmAdministrative44

literal stands??? bro yknow what. ok, its your opinion on dio so that's fine


Glittering_Fig_9319

Why are you replying 3 different times saying everything in 1 reply


FilmAdministrative44

why exactly is killer queen directly affecting the soul?


Glittering_Fig_9319

His erasure erases the soul along with body


FilmAdministrative44

what. he really only lets people explode. one harveat at the brink of death could be seen after takeshi exploded and died shortly after.


Glittering_Fig_9319

Yeah his ability still erases the soul I know he let’s them explode but it’s shown to effect the soul


FilmAdministrative44

wherr is it shown to affect the soul.


Glittering_Fig_9319

[see](https://imgur.com/a/Q2Le36W) his ability can effect souls


FilmAdministrative44

it physically cant erase souls because if it did, josuke couldnt save hayato.


Glittering_Fig_9319

no because it has to fully erase them we’ve literally seen killer queen erase a soul


darklordoft

Mahito altering souls kills the person because most can't survive there body being altered in such a way. Dio as a vampire wouldn't have an issue surviving his body being altered. And if mahito can see and interact with the stand due to his nature as a spirit (sprit in jojo have notoriously been able to interact and see stands and vice versa) then he is also susceptible the damage of the stand. Even though he can idle transfigure himself, it does utilize some level of cursed energy by virtue of it still being a cursed technique. Vs dio who as a vampire cannot tire, only get hungry (which we've never seen what that's like. He did survive 100+ years with no blood and wasn't weakened in any particular way outside of him not having a vampire body. )or deal with the literally daylight if somehow mahito can survive until dawn. (At which point there's nothing stopping him from just blasting his legs out every time mahito tries to stand up. )


Longjumping_Rate_833

Dio wins, here is explanation + evidence: 1. Even tho Mahito has soul manip, stands cannot be affected by non stand users at all. Also, stands are literally the soul of the user in a physical representation, so yes, DIO can affect souls, and besides, souls in JJBA do not work the same as JJK souls. 2. Dio is legitimately several times faster than light. Not only that, since the punches are as loud as a sonic boom, we can assume that since the punches have broken the sound barrier, we can calculate the amount of force coming from each punch, is the force of an actual truck. 3. Mahito and Dio both have good regeneration. But, DIO has actual timestop, for up to 11 seconds. Comparing with DIO's immense strength and speed, Mahito gets flattened into a pancake when DIO time stops. 4. Dio's vampirism. Dio is able to freeze the air, rendering his opponents attacks utterly frozen. His laser eyes PSI go up to 360 million, meaning that it could pierce through many objects (only problem is the area it covers), and generally, his absolute BIQ, increased durabillity and physical capability.


Successful_Duty_9890

Stands are souls so it's safe to assume that the stands can get hurt by soul manip if in physical form. Actually The World is city level. Dio can't freeze the air but can freeze the blood of the person by freezing himself.


Longjumping_Rate_833

In cross verse, JJBA souls aren't actually the souls of the user itself. They are just a representation, and they don't work like JJK as well.


Longjumping_Rate_833

I don't think Mahito could see the stand anyway


WONDERofK

Mahito wouldn't be able to see stands because she/he doesn't have a stand WRRRYYY ZA WARUDO TOKIO TOMARE!!


Successful_Duty_9890

Probably would as curses and stands have a big spiritual thing


elcamp3

Everything that you said would be useful if Duo could actually see Mahito and interact with him. Mahito is a curse. To be able to see and interact with curses, you need an above average amount of cursed energy within yourself. Dio has none. That means that he can't see Mahito nor can he even harm him at all, yet Mahito can still harm Dio. He doesn't need to attack his stand. He would just attack Dio directly as Stands and their users are connected. Even if Dio had some latent resistance due to his powers and having some resistance to soul manipulation due to having a stand, none of that matters when Mahito envelops him into his Domain Expansion. Domain Expansion guarantees that the Curse Users ability will hit and be successful. Dio is dead.


WONDERofK

Za warudo


elcamp3

Even if he freezes time for 11 seconds, how would he know what to attack? How could he even attack something he can't interact with? And if he can't interact with Mahito, what makes you think his time stop would even affect him?


joethegreat1000

Enhanced vampire senses also dio could theoretically survive the alteration so as soon as mahito touches him timestop and murder him


elcamp3

Nah. Your physical senses have no bearing on your spiritual essence. And Dio can't kill someone he cannot perceive or interact with. The only way to kill a curse is with cursed energy. If you don't have cursed energy, you cannot kill them.


joethegreat1000

A curse still interacts with the world physically also mahito really cant kill dio either


elcamp3

Yes, just like how radiation can interact with us, but there is nothing you can do to it. And Mahito can definitely kill Dio. Domain Expansion guarantees that the attack of the curse user will succeed.


joethegreat1000

That the attack will hit. Not that it will kill him


elcamp3

Even if it doesn't kill him, Mahito can transmogrify him into a shape that'll make it so he can never be a threat ever again. It's still his win.


Jona_And

the stand being a manifestation of the soul could affect Mahito's soul? if so Dio wins


balllsn

Let me tell you what happens Dio spams time stop and utterly fucking annihilates Mahito


Glittering_Fig_9319

And mahito regens dio has no way to kill him


elcamp3

How? Dio can't even see Mahito.


balllsn

It is understood that stuff like that either has no effect during the battle or dio is considered either a cursed spirit cus he’s a vampire or the world is considered a cursed spirit and that allows him to see mahito it also depend on the version of dio


elcamp3

So, you basically make him stronger so he can compete? That's like putting Batman against Ichigo, but taking away the advantages of being a Shinigami just to give Batman the chance we all know he wouldn't have. It's reductive and isn't how the fight would go. If you need to buff or nerf a character for them to have a chance against another character, then they shouldn't be fighting that character. Dio isn't a cursed spirit. He doesn't have cursed energy and his body is tangible as he stole it from Jonathan Joestar. Having a stand be considered your soul wouldn't allow him to see Mahito.


balllsn

No I’m not making him stronger so he can win it I’m simply trying to make the battle more fair so the debate on who can win can be made rather that arguing about it saying that since one side can’t see the other that side loses it’s stupid bickering that gets everyone nowhere fast it’s much easier to actually debate who is stronger when one side isn’t constantly saying oh but he can’t see this so he loses while ignoring the others points


elcamp3

>No I’m not making him stronger so he can win it I’m simply trying to make the battle more fair By giving him powers and abilities he doesn't have. That's making him stronger. That's making the battle unfair. Would you give Batman super strength, speed, durability and other powers so that he can fight 'fairly' against Superman? >so the debate on who can win can be made rather that arguing about it saying that since one side can’t see the other that side loses it’s stupid bickering that gets everyone nowhere fast Then don't put him up against someone that he cannot beat with his skill-set. That will prevent stupid bickering because the conversation will never be had in the first place. >it’s much easier to actually debate who is stronger when one side isn’t constantly saying oh but he can’t see this so he loses while ignoring the others points But if he is unable to hurt his opponent due to a lack of skill, then that is a valid reason. We allow Flash to use his speed as a valid reason for why he'd be able to blitz, thus preventing slower opponents from being able to harm him. We allow Superman's durability/invincibility as a reason why weaker opponents wouldn't be able to harm him, so why is this different? Why de-power or empower certain characters in the name of 'fairness' when it's not actually fair? It's reductive and biased.


random_redditor5

I don't even know who mahito is but i know the jojo verse is stronger then jjk so dio wins


Successful_Duty_9890

Well I think a few JJK characters are stronger but not many


youarecomingtobrazil

Are there any characters able to get rid of notorious B.I.G?


Successful_Duty_9890

I'm talking stronger than Star Platinum etc


BobTheJuggernaut

Gojo probably could with Hollow Purple, other than that no


Successful_Duty_9890

DIO spams time stop and destroys Mahito


elcamp3

How? Dio wouldn't even be able to see or interact with him. You need curse energy to be able to see a curse.


FilmAdministrative44

same goes for stands


elcamp3

Mahito doesn't need to see Dio's stand to hurt him.


FilmAdministrative44

but he has to see it to even get past it or it would become an knfinite loop of dio evading mahito. domain expansion doesn't help either.


elcamp3

Dio can't evade what he can't see.


Successful_Duty_9890

He can


elcamp3

No, he can't. He can't see him. He can't sense him. To Dio, Mahito is on a completely different plane of existence.


Successful_Duty_9890

Spiritual stuff would allow DIO to see him either way


elcamp3

No, it wouldn't. It is clearly defined in JJK that curses and spirits /souls are two completely different things. Just because you keep on saying it won't make it true. Dio dies.


Successful_Duty_9890

Then Mahito can't hurt the stand. Plus Spiritual sight should allow that to be seen


elcamp3

Mahito isn't attacking the stand. He's attacking Dio. Why would spiritual sight allow you to see someone who isn't a spirit or soul? Mahito is a curse. He's an amalgamation of negative feelings brought to life. The only way you can see or interact with him is if you can use cursed energy.


Successful_Duty_9890

Can't attack DIO if stand protects


elcamp3

The stand can't protect him because the stand can't interact with Mahito.


WONDERofK

MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA ZAWARUDO OVA HEAVEN/ZA WARUDO TOKIO TOMARE WRRRRRYYYYYYYYYY!!! SHINEI MAHITO WWWWWRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYY!!!!!!!! ROAD ROLLA DAAAA!!!!!


YoastnToastn

And this right here is why no one likes jojo fans……


WONDERofK

Thus why Jojo fans hate you


WONDERofK

Your a nerd jjk fan


YoastnToastn

Are you 13 or just really weird. I’ve read all 8 parts, you’re probably an anime only, they all act like this.


WONDERofK

He didnt say if it was normal dio part 3 dio or twoh dio or shadow dio


Luffy12hawk

As much as i want to say dio there is way less kill options if any for Dio however Mahito can use Soul hax to take the W over dio easily especially since dio can't actually see Mahito anyway but even then dio should horribly outspeed Mahito easily dio is ftl atleast while mahito wanked is at best mach 6 also mahito can regen from anything as long as his soul is unharmed Dio can interact or harm souls like that Mahito wins due to being invisible to Dio and soul hax plus Domain expansion and having low godly regen it really is not fair


Few-Result9341

Mahito mid diff


WONDERofK

Dio claps Mahito


XxUnbidleafxX

In the JJBA universe, stand users are on a spirtual wavelength to a point that they can see and interact with ghost or spirits with their stand (https://youtu.be/2k9aa9AZxZo). To say at the very least, Dio would most likely be able to see Mahito as he is a curse spirit. Considering Mahito being a cursed spirit, I wonder if he can touch The World. Considering they are on the similar wavelength, if that’s the case then if Mahito touches The World, then he might be able to use his curse technique on it. What really makes me wonder is what would Dio do, if Mahito unleashes his Domain Expansion. If Mahito uses his curse technique on Dio’s or The World’s head, then it’s game over for Dio. Oh well, Dio might come up with a strategy to defeat Mahito with given amount of time, as you saw how he adapted to use knives against Joseph Joestar’s hamon.


Pixelslz2025

Dio stomps so bad lol.


Flatron_w1952s

Mahito


sharky123428

I'd just like to point out that dio technically has the world over heaven. The thing that can easily erase literally everyone from existence.


LifeIsASpin

TWOH is non canon though. And also TWOH is not the end all be all


Successful_Duty_9890

TWOH is a different universe DIO


WONDERofK

F thw eople who dislike


Glittering_Fig_9319

Mahito literally can’t die and one shots with touching or domain


Longjumping_Rate_833

just because you're immortal doesn't mean you can't lose a fight.


Glittering_Fig_9319

How is dio doing anything to him to make him lose a fight he quite literally can’t die and if he touches dio he one shots or if he domain him he one shots


XxUnbidleafxX

He could die if he runs out of curse energy, as they are limited in JJK with one exception.


Successful_Duty_9890

Mahito was almost destroyed in season 1


Glittering_Fig_9319

Yeah by soul stuff you can hurt him but he’ll regen unless you hit him with soul attacks


Successful_Duty_9890

Technically The World is a soul so ya there's that


Glittering_Fig_9319

Technically it’s not a soul but it’s linked which is why they get hurt when it gets damaged souls in jojo are not stands


Successful_Duty_9890

The basically are


Glittering_Fig_9319

not really no they are only linked which is why you get hurt when they do heck some people weren’t even born with a stand did they not have a soul before getting one?


Successful_Duty_9890

No the stands is taking out your soul


Glittering_Fig_9319

What are you talking about the stand doesn’t take out your soul your soul is linked to the stand which is why you get hurt when they do it why silver chariot requiem soul switch let them keep stands we’ve seen stand users with a soul


Successful_Duty_9890

It's your soul, Literal ambodiement


WONDERofK

Yes stands are basically like guardian angels look at star platinum it protected Jotaro in Ova


WONDERofK

The stand is like your soul like your guardian look at star platinum it protects Jotaro from Dio's punches in OVA


elcamp3

It's not. It's a representation of the users soul. Regardless, even if it was Dio's soul, it doesn't matter. Mahito is a curse. You can't see or interact with curses unless you have an above average amount of cursed energy. Dio has none.


WONDERofK

Yes the stand is basically like your soul Mahito wouldnt be able too see the world Dio can just have fun with Mahito


elcamp3

How? Dio can't see curses. Curses are not souls. They are a conglomeration of negative emotions that spring to life.


Successful_Duty_9890

It's spiritual stuff and Dio sees spiritual stuff


elcamp3

It isn't spiritual stuff. Mahito isn't a spirit. He's a curse. He's an amalgamation of negative feelings brought to life. You can only see or harm him by being able to use cursed energy. Even if Dio could see him, he still couldn't interact with him.


Successful_Duty_9890

He's basically a ghost in the rules of JJK


elcamp3

No, he isn't. Spirits and curses are completely different in JJK. Why are you making up shit now?


Successful_Duty_9890

I'm aware they are different but they do interact in the same way