At least once more! I am sad to have missed it! I'm reading through the comments now to see if my question has been addressed ☺️ thanks for offering your time and expertise
Outside of all the classic exercises that are suggested here?
I would say, gamify prolonged sitting. What I mean by this is, play around with how many different positions and tweaks you can make to sitting (shift often) when sitting fro a long time; Take a break and twist your spine/rotate your trunk while sitting for a long time
Add pull-ups/and its easier variations into your work-out routine
Slowly integrate yourself into sports that involve trunk rotations and thoracic extension and you will start to see changes.
Always remember that it is a marathon and not a race...ultimately it comes down to being more active than you are sedentary!
Hmm for home..ultimately doing Superman’s on your stomach while playing with different angulation/reaching with your hands within what is safe for you is a good start. Make sure that the shoulder blade is squeezed towards your spine and down during it.
There are other exercises you can do on your hands and knees but it’s hard to describe. Given time…maybe I will post a video of me doing such exercises without gym equipment to this subreddit
Curl into a ball while on your side I am assuming? Tips for sleeping in a “good posture” while sleeping is tough if we are being honest! Ultimately the body defaults into a comfortable position subconsciously while asleep. But with that said have you tried laying a body pillow parallel to you while on your side and flexing the top knee on the body pillow with your neck appropriately supported on your side? This at times can be helpful to prevent you from curling
This is also far fetched but fetal positions at times a comforting position for individuals with anxiety/extreme stress/trauma…if there is a small chance of this then addressing your sleeping position from this angle will be extremely helpful as well.
My inner thighs/groin muscles are too tight. I can't do the 90/90 stretch, the butterfly stretch, or sit on the floor with my legs crossed. How do I fix this?
Before I offer you some ideas, may I ask how long this has been an issue for? And what behavioral patterns have you developed that you do often that maybe feeding into the tightness of the groin/inner thigh?
Any imaging on your hips to rule out the integrity of your hip joints itself?
If it is truly a muscular restriction it will take years of commitment to undo. It is likely that you are already doing the right stuff but then what you require is patience to see result.
My first tip is that when you are stretching the area, be gentle and ease into your stretches. You are looking to change the elasticity of the muscles so you may need to be in that certain stretched position for 3-5 minutes at a time (start of less and gradually increase your time if length of time is too intense as well). Finding a PT that can help you with active mobilization of the muscles after prolonged stretching can be useful as well.
Crossing your leg utilizes all three planes of motion resulting in a combination of hip flexion, external rotation, and abduction.
Now I am willing to bet that it is the abduction that is the most restricted! So I would focus on stretching the inner thigh with the leg out to the side.
If pure external rotation of the hip is restricted…I would encourage you to get X-ray to truly make sure that the integrity of your hip is not compromised. I have a low level of suspicion of it based on what you are describing.
My last tip is to slowly undo the prolonged sitting position. Change between sitting and standing in front of your workstation (get a standing desk if you can). And when you stand vary up your standing position every so often.
Requirement for referrals in a way is outdated....rarely do we get useful info from the PCP to treat you. But to answer your question, it depends largely on the state that you are in. I could be wrong but I believe that in most states you can walk directly into a PT clinic.
I would say call the clinic that you want to check out and ask them directly if you need referral from PCP for a visit.
Finding a good physical therapist...this is very hard to answer succinctly. You can start by asking Redditors in your city whom they've seen that have been most helpful?
It may also take experimenting with a few select PTs
I would say in your experiment find one that truly listens to you and makes you feel like you can tell them \*\*almost\*\* anything (you will be amazed how many people I have been able to treat well based of conversation and less so off my "examination".
Look for one that seems knowledgeable about biomechanics and understands how one joint/muscle can seemly affect a distant joint. If you find a PT with these 2 traits then I think you will be golden!
hmm without understanding the specifics of what maybe influencing the slouch posture, I would say that you answered the question for yourself...dual-tasking/multitasking training.
I would say that whenever you are doing any sort of mundane activity to play a game of doing such activity with what you define as a "better posture" (I think in general I have a different thought process of what a good posture is vs the general public)...that way you are frequently dual tasking your body to be able to do multiple things at once.
You are already doing it with walking...So try to do it with other activities including your own workouts and you will see a difference over time. Let me know if this makes sense...
What kind of lasting improvement do you see as a result of physical therapy? What are your metrics for measuring improvement?
I'm curious because when I went to a physical therapist for pain year ago, it really only made it worse. I even had some extremely painful experiences while at the PT.
I am sorry that you experienced more pain while at PT! Pain Once or twice is ok if you are working with a good/experienced PT because sometimes we need time to adjust treatment to make it appropriate for you but if it happens all the time then it becomes questionable.
Lasting improvements depends on a wide margin of variables…patient/client’s motivation, their stress levels at work and home, and the most important variable in my experience is their commitment to make a change in lifestyle.
With my typical case load of tech workers, I have notice a trend that the people that make the most lasting improvements are the ones that are not just committed to treatment plan but also willing to change lifestyles to improve their posture. This is hard to do but admirable to see.
The main go to metric I use is pain level, length of time at which my clients can sit in front of their computer without pain. When appropriate range of thoracic extension/rotation and more based on client needs and profile.
I hope this helped answer your question.
I subluxated a shoulder due to a fall 15 years ago. I can do all movements, no pain normally, but if I sleep on that side often, or do repetitive movements often (eg. "chicken dance"), that shoulder hurts a bit for a day or more afterwards. Are there any targeted exercises that can help prevent that pain from happening, so I can have a full range of movement and functionality in that shoulder? Since it's subluxated once before, I'm often scared of dislocating it again, but it hasn't happened again since
Hmm this will be hard to answer without being in front of me to tease out how you could be compensating. How about this...what targeted exercises have you been doing consistently over the past 6-8 weeks? this will help me suggest stuff that you may not have tried; And Second, would you know if your upper back area (thoracic spine) was stiff?
I've not been doing any targeted exercises for my shoulder. As for stiffness of the upper back area, as far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be any noticeable stiffness
Ok id about to count 3hs now so I'll be quick
I am skinny, not much muscle/strength, and tall and I have kyphosis and hyperlordosis, what muscles should I work out and which ones not? in order to fix my whole posture
thanks!
Might be good to get that double checked if your are flat footed...at times it can influence the position of you lower lumbar spine. If you are, I would recommend that you start to address that first...
Focus on lower core and glute strength..you may need to work on hip flexor flexibility if they are tight.
Classically work on strengthening your upper back...what most people miss is at times combining upper back extension exercises with slight chin tuck exercises (esp. if you have forward head) to help maximize its effect. oh and stretch your pecs
Also..the world is not fair to very tall people when it comes to ergonomics..so you will have a constant battle of optimizing your posture...make it a routine to have your best chance at this....
*"You're a normal sized man in a small man's world"* I tell some of my taller clients, and I give them permission (I actually kinda challenge them) to go ahead and be tall as it's the only way they'll ever feel like themselves.
People really like hearing "stretch" and "strengthen" because it makes a kind of intuitive sense, but the issue at hand isn't tightness or weakness, it's ***tone***. We simplify certain ideas to make them more accessible, but we risk embedding mistruths into their lived experience and sowing the seeds of future pathologies.
Our intuitive sense misleads us: Pulling the two ends of a muscle apart won't make the muscle meaningfully longer, and just because a muscle is stronger doesn't mean it's meaningfully better.
Tone is a *nervous* function. *Pain* is a nervous function. When the issue is nervous, we should look to the nervous system for clues on building a more helpful and effective treatment plan.
As long as we neglect the primacy of the nervous system in our approach the outcomes will be sub-optimal, even accidental to a degree.
This deserves consideration.
Thanks!!
I'll doble check the flat footed!
And specifically for the hyperlordosis: when trying to force a super straight posture, looking myself in the mirror, I noticed I also use a lot of abs force to keep the position right. What about strengthening abs and stretching lower back? should that help ?
The muscles at the side of my hips are always tight when I sit too long. This has been persisting for a few years, maybe 3-4 years. I have IT band syndrome, and terrible sitting posture as well. What exercises would you recommend to loosen them?
Well, I would recommend you fix the source of the problem first..sitting. If you sit for work..I would highly recommend that you get a standing desk to vary your sitting position.
I would say focus on strengthening your hips mainly in the frontal plane...exercises like speed skater squats are helpful...unfortunately I cant seem to find a link to one that performs the exercise well..ugh....
Can PT help with tmj issues? I can click my right jaw. It’s not painful though there my pain is all in my neck and upper back. I am always craving a massage and when I get them the therapists always say I’m extremely tight in my neck and shoulders. I think the TMJ is linked and might be the cause. Any thoughts?
Edit: I also sit at a computer all day
PT is your best conservative treatment for TMJ! From what you are saying, I would say look for a PT that will certainly look at the jaw in isolation but will also pay very close attention to your upper back mechanics in relation to your jaw.
Massage is helpful but temporary! If you like the massage definitely continue but I would advise you to combine it with strengthening your upper back.
last tip: If you sit at the computer all day, make sure that your head is not tilted in one particular direction all the time...this can be helpful for TMJ as well.
Missed my chance but I’ll get it out of my mind. Most of us are how we are because of sedentary life. Would walking for a good amount of time strengthen our muscles and build mobility?
Walking is a great start...eventually speed-walking and jogging (swimming is amazing too)....this will force more trunk rotation to help nourish your spine. The problem is being intentional about facilitating trunk rotation while walking...sometimes people are so tight in the front of the hips that it does not give their trunk a chance to go through counter rotation to nourish and desensitize the spine from sedentary living.
If you’re up for answering one more-
I’ve had a persistent cramp/pain that feels like it creeps from my lats through my armpits (pec minor?) and wraps like a band across the front of my mid torso (below pecs and above abs, kind of right along the edge of my front rib cage) it comes after I sit for a long time or really do anything too strenuous. Is it really just down to weakness and strengthening my entire core? Heard anything like it before? Thanks
hi! i have burning searing pain by my left shoulder blade/spine whenever i am reaching forward like working on a computer or putting things together at my job. i have had weak shoulders all my life but im not sure if thats the cause, any solutions would be greatly appreciated because its impacting my everyday activities even driving hurts. thank you!
I'm a male. To outside observers, I have good posture. My shoulders are back, stand up straight, etc. I've even received compliments on my posture before. I'm certainly no hunchback. However, there is actually a "knot" in the middle of my back which sticks out a little bit. It is especially apparent when I bend over.
To explain how it is, if I run my finger down my spine, there is a bump about halfway down, where my finger ascends the little hill and descends the hill again. The first half of the spine it is like a valley (the spine is less elevated than the muscle/meat on both sides, fully protected). However, then the spine sticks out a bit and is is level/a bit more than level with the rest of my back. And then, it descends again into the valley, protected.
This isn't kyphosis, as far as I know because it is NOT in the upper back.
This is in the middle back. If I lie on the floor and roll on my back and do ab exercises for example, that knot is very annoying because it is touching the floor/mat and I get the feeling that it wouldn't be good to put too much pressure on it (again, no pain though).
I believe this "knot" in the middle of my back is a result of me having bad posture while playing video games for example during childhood and puberty.
What are the effects of this spinal deformity on my life? How is my spine constructed at the knot from an anatomy POV? Would I be taller if my spine was straight? I don't have any pain or discomfort, but from a physics point of view, I feel as if doing shoulder press in the gym for example is bad for my spine when it protrudes in the middle like this. If I got hit in the back by something at the wrong angle like a wall for example, I could get paralyzed if it hits my spinal knot.
How can I fix this? Could use of an inversion table help straighten me out fully? I already do a lot of pullups and hanging which stretches out the back a bit, but perhaps an inversion table could do more for the middle and lower back.
How risky is surgery to fix an issue like this?
My Apologies everyone. I am all done! I am hungry LOL. Maybe I will do this monthly if you find it beneficial - let me know!
I just opened reddit and saw your post was 4 hrs ago... Anyways i will read the whole thread
At least once more! I am sad to have missed it! I'm reading through the comments now to see if my question has been addressed ☺️ thanks for offering your time and expertise
What can help reverse rounded shoulders and slight forward head position, caused due to slouchy seated posture over time?
Outside of all the classic exercises that are suggested here? I would say, gamify prolonged sitting. What I mean by this is, play around with how many different positions and tweaks you can make to sitting (shift often) when sitting fro a long time; Take a break and twist your spine/rotate your trunk while sitting for a long time Add pull-ups/and its easier variations into your work-out routine Slowly integrate yourself into sports that involve trunk rotations and thoracic extension and you will start to see changes. Always remember that it is a marathon and not a race...ultimately it comes down to being more active than you are sedentary!
Would yoga in general help reverse this? Even if it's not targeted exercise for shoulders and neck?
Which exercise uses the same muscles as pull ups but can be done without a pull up bar at home?
Hmm for home..ultimately doing Superman’s on your stomach while playing with different angulation/reaching with your hands within what is safe for you is a good start. Make sure that the shoulder blade is squeezed towards your spine and down during it. There are other exercises you can do on your hands and knees but it’s hard to describe. Given time…maybe I will post a video of me doing such exercises without gym equipment to this subreddit
Any tips for maintaining good posture while sleeping? I feel like I undo all of my hardwork once I climb into bed. (I tend to curl into a ball)
Curl into a ball while on your side I am assuming? Tips for sleeping in a “good posture” while sleeping is tough if we are being honest! Ultimately the body defaults into a comfortable position subconsciously while asleep. But with that said have you tried laying a body pillow parallel to you while on your side and flexing the top knee on the body pillow with your neck appropriately supported on your side? This at times can be helpful to prevent you from curling This is also far fetched but fetal positions at times a comforting position for individuals with anxiety/extreme stress/trauma…if there is a small chance of this then addressing your sleeping position from this angle will be extremely helpful as well.
Thank you!
My inner thighs/groin muscles are too tight. I can't do the 90/90 stretch, the butterfly stretch, or sit on the floor with my legs crossed. How do I fix this?
Before I offer you some ideas, may I ask how long this has been an issue for? And what behavioral patterns have you developed that you do often that maybe feeding into the tightness of the groin/inner thigh?
I've had this problem for about 12 years. I think it's because I sit on a chair for about 14 hours a day.
Any imaging on your hips to rule out the integrity of your hip joints itself? If it is truly a muscular restriction it will take years of commitment to undo. It is likely that you are already doing the right stuff but then what you require is patience to see result. My first tip is that when you are stretching the area, be gentle and ease into your stretches. You are looking to change the elasticity of the muscles so you may need to be in that certain stretched position for 3-5 minutes at a time (start of less and gradually increase your time if length of time is too intense as well). Finding a PT that can help you with active mobilization of the muscles after prolonged stretching can be useful as well. Crossing your leg utilizes all three planes of motion resulting in a combination of hip flexion, external rotation, and abduction. Now I am willing to bet that it is the abduction that is the most restricted! So I would focus on stretching the inner thigh with the leg out to the side. If pure external rotation of the hip is restricted…I would encourage you to get X-ray to truly make sure that the integrity of your hip is not compromised. I have a low level of suspicion of it based on what you are describing. My last tip is to slowly undo the prolonged sitting position. Change between sitting and standing in front of your workstation (get a standing desk if you can). And when you stand vary up your standing position every so often.
I had an xray a couple of years ago. The doctor said I have sacroiliitis. Thanks for the tips.
Sacroilitis...Are your hamstrings tight as well?
Yes they are. I forgot to mention my right inner thighs and hamstrings are much tighter than the left.
how do u fix a dowagurs hump
How do I go about finding a good physical therapist in my area? Do I need a referral from my PCP to start therapy?
Requirement for referrals in a way is outdated....rarely do we get useful info from the PCP to treat you. But to answer your question, it depends largely on the state that you are in. I could be wrong but I believe that in most states you can walk directly into a PT clinic. I would say call the clinic that you want to check out and ask them directly if you need referral from PCP for a visit. Finding a good physical therapist...this is very hard to answer succinctly. You can start by asking Redditors in your city whom they've seen that have been most helpful? It may also take experimenting with a few select PTs I would say in your experiment find one that truly listens to you and makes you feel like you can tell them \*\*almost\*\* anything (you will be amazed how many people I have been able to treat well based of conversation and less so off my "examination". Look for one that seems knowledgeable about biomechanics and understands how one joint/muscle can seemly affect a distant joint. If you find a PT with these 2 traits then I think you will be golden!
Do you have any advice on how to build better “default” posture when walking? If I don’t pay attention, I tend to slouch too much.
hmm without understanding the specifics of what maybe influencing the slouch posture, I would say that you answered the question for yourself...dual-tasking/multitasking training. I would say that whenever you are doing any sort of mundane activity to play a game of doing such activity with what you define as a "better posture" (I think in general I have a different thought process of what a good posture is vs the general public)...that way you are frequently dual tasking your body to be able to do multiple things at once. You are already doing it with walking...So try to do it with other activities including your own workouts and you will see a difference over time. Let me know if this makes sense...
What kind of lasting improvement do you see as a result of physical therapy? What are your metrics for measuring improvement? I'm curious because when I went to a physical therapist for pain year ago, it really only made it worse. I even had some extremely painful experiences while at the PT.
I am sorry that you experienced more pain while at PT! Pain Once or twice is ok if you are working with a good/experienced PT because sometimes we need time to adjust treatment to make it appropriate for you but if it happens all the time then it becomes questionable. Lasting improvements depends on a wide margin of variables…patient/client’s motivation, their stress levels at work and home, and the most important variable in my experience is their commitment to make a change in lifestyle. With my typical case load of tech workers, I have notice a trend that the people that make the most lasting improvements are the ones that are not just committed to treatment plan but also willing to change lifestyles to improve their posture. This is hard to do but admirable to see. The main go to metric I use is pain level, length of time at which my clients can sit in front of their computer without pain. When appropriate range of thoracic extension/rotation and more based on client needs and profile. I hope this helped answer your question.
I subluxated a shoulder due to a fall 15 years ago. I can do all movements, no pain normally, but if I sleep on that side often, or do repetitive movements often (eg. "chicken dance"), that shoulder hurts a bit for a day or more afterwards. Are there any targeted exercises that can help prevent that pain from happening, so I can have a full range of movement and functionality in that shoulder? Since it's subluxated once before, I'm often scared of dislocating it again, but it hasn't happened again since
Hmm this will be hard to answer without being in front of me to tease out how you could be compensating. How about this...what targeted exercises have you been doing consistently over the past 6-8 weeks? this will help me suggest stuff that you may not have tried; And Second, would you know if your upper back area (thoracic spine) was stiff?
I've not been doing any targeted exercises for my shoulder. As for stiffness of the upper back area, as far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be any noticeable stiffness
Ok id about to count 3hs now so I'll be quick I am skinny, not much muscle/strength, and tall and I have kyphosis and hyperlordosis, what muscles should I work out and which ones not? in order to fix my whole posture thanks!
probably I also have some forward head position
Per chance you are not flat footed are you?
I was when a kid, I am 32 now, but not sure if that got fixed over time or not, haven't really checked
Might be good to get that double checked if your are flat footed...at times it can influence the position of you lower lumbar spine. If you are, I would recommend that you start to address that first... Focus on lower core and glute strength..you may need to work on hip flexor flexibility if they are tight. Classically work on strengthening your upper back...what most people miss is at times combining upper back extension exercises with slight chin tuck exercises (esp. if you have forward head) to help maximize its effect. oh and stretch your pecs Also..the world is not fair to very tall people when it comes to ergonomics..so you will have a constant battle of optimizing your posture...make it a routine to have your best chance at this....
*"You're a normal sized man in a small man's world"* I tell some of my taller clients, and I give them permission (I actually kinda challenge them) to go ahead and be tall as it's the only way they'll ever feel like themselves. People really like hearing "stretch" and "strengthen" because it makes a kind of intuitive sense, but the issue at hand isn't tightness or weakness, it's ***tone***. We simplify certain ideas to make them more accessible, but we risk embedding mistruths into their lived experience and sowing the seeds of future pathologies. Our intuitive sense misleads us: Pulling the two ends of a muscle apart won't make the muscle meaningfully longer, and just because a muscle is stronger doesn't mean it's meaningfully better. Tone is a *nervous* function. *Pain* is a nervous function. When the issue is nervous, we should look to the nervous system for clues on building a more helpful and effective treatment plan. As long as we neglect the primacy of the nervous system in our approach the outcomes will be sub-optimal, even accidental to a degree. This deserves consideration.
Thanks!! I'll doble check the flat footed! And specifically for the hyperlordosis: when trying to force a super straight posture, looking myself in the mirror, I noticed I also use a lot of abs force to keep the position right. What about strengthening abs and stretching lower back? should that help ?
I would focus more on strengthening core than stretching Lower back but they both will be useful.
Thanks for your thoughts
Best bras (brandsor type) for good posture?
J'ai un défilé thoraco brachiale qui comprime mon nerf ulnaire. J'ai toujours eu des soucis de posture du a ma ma mâchoire.
What have you done for it that you’ve found most helpful?
The muscles at the side of my hips are always tight when I sit too long. This has been persisting for a few years, maybe 3-4 years. I have IT band syndrome, and terrible sitting posture as well. What exercises would you recommend to loosen them?
Well, I would recommend you fix the source of the problem first..sitting. If you sit for work..I would highly recommend that you get a standing desk to vary your sitting position. I would say focus on strengthening your hips mainly in the frontal plane...exercises like speed skater squats are helpful...unfortunately I cant seem to find a link to one that performs the exercise well..ugh....
Can PT help with tmj issues? I can click my right jaw. It’s not painful though there my pain is all in my neck and upper back. I am always craving a massage and when I get them the therapists always say I’m extremely tight in my neck and shoulders. I think the TMJ is linked and might be the cause. Any thoughts? Edit: I also sit at a computer all day
PT is your best conservative treatment for TMJ! From what you are saying, I would say look for a PT that will certainly look at the jaw in isolation but will also pay very close attention to your upper back mechanics in relation to your jaw. Massage is helpful but temporary! If you like the massage definitely continue but I would advise you to combine it with strengthening your upper back. last tip: If you sit at the computer all day, make sure that your head is not tilted in one particular direction all the time...this can be helpful for TMJ as well.
Missed my chance but I’ll get it out of my mind. Most of us are how we are because of sedentary life. Would walking for a good amount of time strengthen our muscles and build mobility?
Walking is a great start...eventually speed-walking and jogging (swimming is amazing too)....this will force more trunk rotation to help nourish your spine. The problem is being intentional about facilitating trunk rotation while walking...sometimes people are so tight in the front of the hips that it does not give their trunk a chance to go through counter rotation to nourish and desensitize the spine from sedentary living.
If you’re up for answering one more- I’ve had a persistent cramp/pain that feels like it creeps from my lats through my armpits (pec minor?) and wraps like a band across the front of my mid torso (below pecs and above abs, kind of right along the edge of my front rib cage) it comes after I sit for a long time or really do anything too strenuous. Is it really just down to weakness and strengthening my entire core? Heard anything like it before? Thanks
hi! i have burning searing pain by my left shoulder blade/spine whenever i am reaching forward like working on a computer or putting things together at my job. i have had weak shoulders all my life but im not sure if thats the cause, any solutions would be greatly appreciated because its impacting my everyday activities even driving hurts. thank you!
Best sleeping position?
is it true that you work with a lot of tech workers because they are the ones with the money?
I'm a male. To outside observers, I have good posture. My shoulders are back, stand up straight, etc. I've even received compliments on my posture before. I'm certainly no hunchback. However, there is actually a "knot" in the middle of my back which sticks out a little bit. It is especially apparent when I bend over. To explain how it is, if I run my finger down my spine, there is a bump about halfway down, where my finger ascends the little hill and descends the hill again. The first half of the spine it is like a valley (the spine is less elevated than the muscle/meat on both sides, fully protected). However, then the spine sticks out a bit and is is level/a bit more than level with the rest of my back. And then, it descends again into the valley, protected. This isn't kyphosis, as far as I know because it is NOT in the upper back. This is in the middle back. If I lie on the floor and roll on my back and do ab exercises for example, that knot is very annoying because it is touching the floor/mat and I get the feeling that it wouldn't be good to put too much pressure on it (again, no pain though). I believe this "knot" in the middle of my back is a result of me having bad posture while playing video games for example during childhood and puberty. What are the effects of this spinal deformity on my life? How is my spine constructed at the knot from an anatomy POV? Would I be taller if my spine was straight? I don't have any pain or discomfort, but from a physics point of view, I feel as if doing shoulder press in the gym for example is bad for my spine when it protrudes in the middle like this. If I got hit in the back by something at the wrong angle like a wall for example, I could get paralyzed if it hits my spinal knot. How can I fix this? Could use of an inversion table help straighten me out fully? I already do a lot of pullups and hanging which stretches out the back a bit, but perhaps an inversion table could do more for the middle and lower back. How risky is surgery to fix an issue like this?
I messed my lower back up during deadlifts working out. Any advice on what I should be doing?