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Reminds me of a conversation I had at work the other day about the Jan 6 Hearings: >Them: the hearings were just a circus. >Me: okay. Why? >Them: well those videos were just a bunch of random clips edited to make those people look bad. >Me: ok not really, but...how does that make the hearings a circus? >Them: it was all fake and that stuff didn't happen like the way they're trying to make it look. >Me: so the people smashing windows and forcefully entering the capitol didn't happen like the video shows? >Them: well... it's complicated. >Me: ahh..ok. I see... were these people just sightseers taking a tour? >Them: let's just change the subject... I can't imagine what it's like living a life ignoring reality like these people do...


That’s when you don’t let them change the subject, but keep bringing it up in plenum until they admit to everyone that they don’t know shit about what they are talking about. Bully the bully. They deserve it.


Except that will never happen. They will just get more insane and start screaming about antifa or clones or some shit. You can’t bully people into seeing things straight.


The point isn't to make these dredges of society see the light. They're lost causes. The purpose is to challenge them, expose them, and neuter their ability to spread disinformation. Someone who isn't paying attention to the news will just hear "this is a kangaroo court" and, because they don't know better, believe it. Expose the sources as not only liars, but generally deranged individuals, and people will avoid what they have to say.


But with all that insane screaming they might stroke out. So....


You can bully a bully just fine.


At that point it is just two people screaming at each other. But hey you do you.


You can bully a bully in plenum without raising your voice. It’s really satisfying to get a bully to cry. I’d say try it sometime.


It may look like i’m walking away from this conversation but that’s only because i’m walking away from this conversation.


That’s ok. I wish you an awesome day. ✌️


No. But you can still bully them. Which is aight with me.


Agreed in my experience you’ll get hit with verbal diarrhea where they’ll jump from baby killing abortions, critical race theory being taught to toddlers, climate change hoaxes, COVID conspiracies and grooming within 15 seconds. If you can set a boundary set it. If you can’t you gotta choose whether that relationship is something that you can end then end it. If you can’t end it then nod your head and don’t engage.


They just keep changing the subject, or call me a poor kid on food stamps or the like whenever I try pushing them. Always blaming, changing the subject, and pointing the finger the other direction. These people are literally insane


So do the thing that will go an insane person on the nerves… Bullies have triggers too. ;)


So the person in this situation i would not call a bully. Really the exact opposite, and they seldom talk politics. They're just fairly naive and have drunk the big lie kool aid. While I agree that those who engage in political discourse like bullies certainly need to be put in their place firmly and repeatedly, there's a great deal of people out there who can maybe be convinced to rejoin us in reality, but hectoring them or bullying behavior ourselves won't cause them to suddenly see the light... in my experience that causes many of them to double down. In my case, with this particular individual, I rely on him for support i need so I can support customers outside our organization. So bullying or antagonizing him won't help me get my job done in a timely manner. Unfortunately, we still have to live and work with people who refuse to accept reality.


“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre


Why imagine when you can live it? Just go to a Republican campaign rally near you!


I do this all the time with my family about why they think Trump is a better president. Them: The economy was better under Trump. Me: Ok. What did Trump specifically do to make the economy better. Them: Well. It was just better. Me: But what did he do to make it better? Them: Unemployment was down. Me: What did he do to lower unemployment? Them: I don’t… I mean… gas was cheaper. Me: How did he make gas cheaper? Them: EVERYTHING WAS JUST BETTER, OK?!?!


My "I'm not gonna get an answer for this" question is: "Name 3 pieces of legislation passed by the Biden administration that directly led to inflation and/or the precipitous rise in gas prices." Follow up? "Show your homework."


The economy was better. It happens every time Republicans take back the Presidency. Republicans are the people who are the CEO’s of oil and gas and auto manufacturers and shopping destinations so they have a lot of influence on what the costs are for items. Now, prices may not increase much but wages that they pay don’t increase at all. So middle class and lower economic workers end up paying “more” because they are being paid less. Most people don’t take how much their pay has stagnated into consideration when comparing prices.


The economy is always better when Republicans take over because Democrats spent the last administration cleaning up all the economic fuck ups of the previous Republican administration. Democrats never get credit for fixing things.


> The economy was better. It happens every time Republicans take back the Presidency. Except when **every** Republican president has been in office they've led the nation into a recession. * Nixon * Reagan * George HW Bush * George W Bush * Trump The only Democratic recession was Carter and it lasted barely a year. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/JHDUSRGDPBR


They're saying that the Republican presidents inherited a better economy from the previous Democratic presidents. Not that they caused the better economy.


If the democrats are supposed to clean it up, how is this one doing? This isn't a slight at anyone I'm just wondering if it's really an ebb and flow of fix it for 4 years then break it for 4


Don't forget hedge fund managers.


A pandemic started, and people were in lockdown. They all stopped driving and the price of oil went negative. Negative. The price of oil was below zero. Also the stock market tanked. Are they saying the pandemic was Trump's fault? He personally planned it?


Remember when Trump demanded OPEC drop production so that Americans would have to pay more for gas? I remember! https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-oil-trump-saudi-specialreport/special-report-trump-told-saudi-cut-oil-supply-or-lose-u-s-military-support-sources-idUSKBN22C1V4 it was two years ago and lead directly to the prices you are paying now. OPEC never increased production back to baseline.


"She's saying Trump is an evil, corrupt, self-serving criminal!" "So...what lies?"


Family Member: "She's making me have to work much harder to protect my cognitive dissonance" (unrealistic, I know... MAGA mouth-breathers probably only understood 4 words in that sentence)


“Me”, “my” and two others.


Hmmm... Which 4 though? I can only identify "me" and "to" as words they might understand. But not together.


They know "work," always saying nobody wants to


I disagree, most of them dont actually work or know what work is.


That’s usually when they switch to saying that both sides do it and whatever Trump did or didn’t do, the Democrats are far worse. Etc etc


“But… but… but… BLM burned down entire cities! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!”


Family Member: "Democrats want to ban all guns." Me: "Back that up with a specific quote from a specific person." Family Member: "There's plenty. Google it." OR they say, "That's what they REALLY want - they just can't admit it in public."


Tell them once the Trump authoritarians take power, they're coming for their guns, just like [Putin did.](https://www.guns.com/news/2018/10/26/putin-says-russia-needs-stronger-gun-restrictions) They want proof? Trump already let the cat out of the bag: >["Take the guns first, go through due process second."](https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second/) Because that's what authoritarians do. They steal power, and then they do everything they can to keep it.


Trump banned bump stocks


When an individual only thinks about how things will effect themselves they cannot imagine people that would think about the betterment of everyone. They cannot imagine doing it so of course no one would. A lot of family etc that I don’t talk to anymore and have felt overall relieved and happier.


If they love that monster more than their own family, you don’t have to consider them family anymore. Estrangement is a blessing.


One thing I miss about in person discussions is you can hold their feet to the fire on a question and make it awkward by refusing to move on, making them admit they have nothing.


I don’t talk to any of my Trump family anymore. This is the reason. They’re stupid and you know what? They made my child hood hell to be forcing me to go to Shri h and punish me for liking rock music so every one of them can get fucked


So let me get this straight… Trump’s lawyers, campaign managers, daughter, son-in-law, and Attorney General are all lying under oath and penalty of perjury but it’s Trump who refused to sit for a deposition and testify under oath and penalty of perjury who is really telling the truth… ok… sure…lol


I've seen this, except it was "the media", never any specifics on which "the media" and what "lies" they were saying about Trump, just a general sense of anger and childish pouting.


"they just don't like Trump." or "they are just trying to make Trump look bad" is the same rhetoric I've been hearing from these clowns ever since this fool got elected. No, those things are called facts


there are a whole bunch of people who don't know how to reason


Can’t wait for my family reunion this weekend. My dad and some of his siblings are cool but with 9 boomer siblings some are as horrible as to be expected.


I've seen the same, right here. Who has not ?


Trying to use logic with these people is useless, as they have abandoned it long ago, but there is a very respected idea/theory that the most effective thing we can do is publicly mock and ridicule people for being stupid. As much we might find it distasteful (well, maybe not \*US\*, this is reddit, after all), it might be the best/only way to get through to these idiots.


Liz Cheney shot a guy in the face


Like father like daughter. /s About the OP: there’s no good faith debate with people whose rhetorical strategy is based on the shell game.


Her father did. There's no evidence that she did anything similar.


So? It makes her look bad so it must be true. What are you trying to do by trying to bring evidence into an argument with Republicans? Facts = Democratic lies.


I mean she lies about her father not being a war criminal. And the fact that she voted for basically everything Trump wanted makes her stance disingenuous. But no Trump lies detected!