How to piss off both sides
By - AbominableYetii
Me lol 😂
No no, libertarians are fascists, I read that on reddit.
Well if you read it on reddit it must be true 💯
Murray Rothbard, founder of the American Libertarian Party and the founding ideolog of AnCap
I read the same (that libertarians are not-enlightened fascists) but on stonetoss.com by other fascists. This was a weird travel.
-An ideology that is not in agreement with yours.
for real, that position isn't grey-center, it's LibRight!
Nah, lib center.
You would think but many LibRights feel that abortions violate NAP so should be illegal. Abortions are a great LibRight infighting topic.
One of the few!
Just say the baby is gonna end up a commie...they will wanna yeet it outta there 🤪
Yeah, a centrist would support a little bit of choice in both cases.
thats what pro choice means. abortions or vaccines, you get to choose. not the gubermint.
Brb telling a bunch of "pro-life" ers that they're pro-vaccine mandate
No don’t do it, I’ll have to call you a straw man or something.
I’ll pull out the murderer argument. Don’t make me. Behave little left
I know this will get me down votes, but uh
The logic that Roe v. Wade is founded on, that you can't force or ban someone from getting a medical procedure without due process, is also the logic that stops the federal government from injecting in you in the arm without your consent.
So, those issues are chained together in a *hilarious* way
Okay this may be dumb but Um I’m serious and I want a serious response in this very very serious subreddit with no jokes or sarcasm wahtsever and no trolling or the ahahs or any of that.
Isn’t the baby like getting the medical procedure of FUCKING DYING without due process? Idk man
Both the mother and the baby are getting a medical procedure. The mother no longer has to deal with the consequences of a pregnancy. The child receives a free life accelerant treatment. Think of all the loans that child has just avoided.
Gray centrist just went unhinged.
What a fucking savage.
I actually am a savage. My grill is rusted. I haven't used it in over a year.
Also, Happy cake day.
Well. Fuck. Thanks. I don’t have a cake day meme to go karma farm with.
Clean that grill RIGHT NOW or reflair
This fucking WINS
Damn I was on the fence but this convinced me.
Yes doctor I would like an abortion.
*but you’re a man*
And? I can’t take this shit anymore doc
Ultra late term abortion
>The child receives a free life accelerant treatment. Think of all the loans that child has just avoided.
Based and free healthcare pilled.
Another key point of Roe V Wade was the constitutional interpretation of “right to life as a natural born citizen.”
They interpreted it literally— you have the right to life when you are born, not before
>Another key point of Roe V Wade was the constitutional interpretation of “right to life as a natural born citizen.”
> They interpreted it literally— you have the right to life when you are born, not before
This is incorrect, the word the used in the constitution is person not citizen nevertheless natural born citizen. Otherwise making a law ordering the mass genocide people visiting on Visa cards would be constitutional. There are people who are in the U.S that are not citizens, but they still have a right to life.
Even if it did say citizen I don’t think it would ever get taken to that extreme lmao. Fair distinction tho, even tho it doesn’t really change the point of my reply
You would be surprised. Look through the gymnastics the supreme court has had to pull in interpreting the constitution. From when colored people first wanted rights, to how the 2nd amendment has been framed to how the 4th or 14th amendment has been framed.
There was a Japanese person who was americanised through and through. Tried to get citizenship but citizenship was only for white free men back then. He pointed out how his kids only knew English, they went to church, played baseball etc. Finally he lifts his shirt and points at his pale body to point out he is literally white. Judge rules against saying it refers to the scientifically stated (at the time) Caucasian race.
Later some Indian Rocks up. Full on Hindu. Very distinct and seperate from American culture at the time still wants citizenship. Points out he is literally from the caucus region by using that Japanese guy's case as a precedent. He is of the superior race, treats the untouchables just like how the white men in America treat the negro. Rejected on that it is from a common sense understanding of Caucasian man. Also funnily enough got other Indian citizenship claims who were initially allowed to be rejected.
Later iirc he got citizenship for serving in wwi
Interpretation of the constitution can be super nitpicky and even just based on the justices.
Then we can gas all the illegals.
Note for stupid people: I am not actually advocating gassing illegals, but the stupidity that the right to life is only for citizens.
Is it really dying if it never actually lived any life to begin with? No self awareness, it never even knew of existence. If it ever had a soul that soul just gets bounced to the next existence. No big loss.
The fetus is not ~~alive~~ a human being by any settled medical, scientific, or philosophical argument. Your snuck premise that it's a "baby" is doing all the heavy lifting here.
Pretty much all scientists agree that a fertilized egg is "alive".
What you probably mean is "the fetus is not a human being". And you're right.... that's *not* a 'settled' argument. Carefully consider throwing your lot in with the folks in favor of wantonly killing because they choose to define the victims as "not human". We've seen that plenty of times in the past, and those people have never turned out to be the good guys....
>I know this will get me down votes, but uh
proceeds to get 60 upvotes
Feel like people are willfully ignorant of the fact this sub leans right.
Wrong. The inherent difference is that a vaccine mandate is forcing you to do something, while a ban on abortion is prohibiting you from doing something.
It's like free speech, I get getting told that there's stuff I can't say (defamation laws come to mind), but try to tell me what to actively say and I'll go full Guevara on your ass, down with the establishment, viva la revolucion!
So, you can't force a person to take a vaccine, or let's go general, have a medical procedure (force someone to do something even when it may be against their best interest), but by all means, you can stop people from doing things, in this case, a medical procedure with a third person involved. I support people doing whatever they want with their bodies, it's none of my business, that's all fine and dandy, but a baby in the womb is not the woman's body, and pregnancy isn't a medical procedure, it's nature.
It's a false equivalency since the core of each issue is completely different, the opposite even, I dare say. Being forced to do something vs being stopped from doing something. The former is tyranny, the latter is common law.
That said, I like to think of myself as both pro-life and pro-choice, since most women get pregnant due to a choice: the choice to have sex. Pregnancy is the consequence of a prior choice, not the choice. Instances of rape have more room for debate, but even then I don't think you solve one atrocious crime against an innocent by perpetuating another atrocious crime against another innocent.
Thank you, based.
Based and apples-to-apples pilled
If only idiots would GET that...because I oppose the TX law. I think it’s a bad law. I also see the same ppl freaking out about it wanting to starve me into compliance over this vaccine. So I’m not at all sorry for them, or caring about them. I oppose the TX law because it is a bad law, independently of how fucking ANNOYING the people are that benefit from said bad law going away
Your assumption is that a fetus is considered a human.
I do not consider a fetus under 18 weeks a human, nor will I ever. Something with self-awareness and a conscious, otherwise stop murdering all the plants, ants, and other insects.
(18 weeks is the lower bound but it's expected to not develop before 30 weeks)
Edit, sources for those numbers
Vegans: your terms are acceptable
Crops are plants, right?
Eating insects or supplementing our diets would also be better for the environment \o/
>Something with self-awareness and a conscious, otherwise stop murdering all the plants, ants, and other insects.
Curious on this, would you consider pulling life support on people who are in a coma? Ones that we know would eventually get self - awareness and consciousness if we waited?
If we know no **because they have already been aware** and might be somewhat aware during coma.
If we know they're brain dead then yes.
We know unborn children will develop and grow and become whatever level of sentient you deem appropriate to keep their life and not be slaughtered in the name of healthcare.
So pro-choice and pro-life or against both?
I believe unborn humans deserve to not be killed and maintain their bodily autonomy. By not killed I mean being burned alive with acid, or ripped apart, or birthed early into a hostile environment. When only a few months gestation would allow them to live independently
Yes but that is based on your belief of what a human is or would be.
I don't agree with that and have my clear reasons for that, so sorry I'll have to disagree with your statement on our different beliefs. Opinion Vs opinion I guess ...
Also you didn't answer my question, could you?
Oops I accidentally a eugenics
As long as we're fine with the state executing its citizens, the entire argument is moot.
Sorry not from the us so not sure what you're pointing at
> the us
We like executing prisoners here.
Owwww good point
Based and reality-pilled
It is human. Biology. Go argue personhood or some other subjective crap.
I’m pro-life for both
Please first go tell your Pro choicer friends to drop this vaccine mandate nonsense.
They believe that abortion is murder though, which is against the law and widely considered morally wrong. Even us PCM retards don’t actually believe “Pro-choice” means anarchism.
Imagine if people who support a vaccine mandate started calling themselves "pro-life"...
God I misread that as having to choose: either vaccines or Abortion
I work in a hospital, and the same family friend has asked me about the Vaccine five times, starting in February, and I always give the same answer: I think it would help you not get Covid and die or get chronic symptoms, get it when you can.
She still hasn't got it. That's her choice, I'm not her Dad not her doctor.
I think it's a bad choice but so what?
I eat butter on a potato, and that is a bad choice for my health as well.
But I like forcing people to do things :\
Exactly, I agree, \^ this is the way
I am pro-life, but it's not hard at all to think a fetus (especially a early-stage fetus) is just not a human being deserving of rights, so a person shouldn't be expected to protect them but *should* be required to take a vaccine to protect fully formed humans out in the world. Again, I'm pro-life so that's not *my* stance but it's completely logically consistent - being pro-choice on abortions does not preclude you from supporting mandatory vaccinations.
So based that it hurts
What hurts is the hypocrisy of both sides. And instead of Congress passing a law on abortion, they’d rather let Roe vs Wade skirt by as a legal technicality that is applied differently in each state so they can continue to use it as a political wedge issue.
Meanwhile, the economy is in some crazy money printing bubble that’s going to explode up or down and Congress isn’t concerned with it at all.
Whatever government makes a decision on abortion will get steamrolled (or close to it) the next election. It’s better the court deals with it as it’s decisions are slow to change and sidestep public opinion.
its one of those single issue qualifiers that will forever be argued about and never solved, ensuring we also dont fix anything else in the meantime.
literally yeah. do i wish everyone would get vaccinated? absolutely. is the actual situation with mandates an absolute nightmare that would hardly improve things? that too.
based and mythoughtsexactlypilled
Based as fuck. I hate all this “my hypocrisy isn’t actually hypocrisy because actually (((wall of text))).”
It isn't though? "If you don't like abortion don't get one" is the stupidest argument because to Pro life people it is murder. It's like saying "if you don't like murder just don't kill people lmao"
It is, at least I’d argue it is. The point is that it’s a matter of perspective, and saying you don’t think their self-described rights are valid because your perspective on the issue is different is… disingenuous, especially since the core argument is the same. And more than anything, it’s no excuse for resorting to authoritarianism.
My flair won’t check out but I respect the freedom of choice as a med student. However morally deep inside I just can’t find abortion ethical as a method of birth control. Just use condoms and practice safe sex and you’ll have a happier and healthier life regardless of your views.
AuthCenter med student? Dear god help us all.
My opinion that anyone who believes that abortion is “just another form of birth control” for the women who want it is severely misinformed. It’s an expensive, invasive surgery that leaves you with high (in some cases suicidal) levels of psychological stress and fucked up hormones that no woman would ever do if they didn’t absolutely have to.
Um hate to kill the mood but rapists exist that is the main reason I support abortion
He didn't object? He said it just cannot be thought of as birth control. It is very severe and should absolutely be taken as a last resort.
Thx for clarification
Abortion as a form of birth control isnt very common. More of a backup plan if your primary method(s) wasnt effective (since none are100%, to include just choosing to not partake in sex since rape is still a thing).
If we were seeing small amounts of abortions, I would agree with you, but the reality is that we are seeing over 600,000 abortions per year. **That's aborting a city the size of Portland every year.**
Rape based abortions account for less than 1% of all abortions.
I'm okay aborting Portland. I've seen the "Portland looks like shit" IG.
Live in Vancouver, WA, can confirm
600,000 is actually quite small when you think about it. From what I've found, [the average American adult has sex 60 times a year](https://lifehacker.com/here-s-how-much-sex-everybody-is-having-1795561168). There's over 300 million people in America, but of course we need to factor out gay people, children, and people who can't get pregnant, so let's call it 100 million. 100 million x 60 is 6 billion potential pregnancies, so 600,000 means there's 1 abortion for every 10,000 times people have sex
Don't tell that to the people that constantly throw "covid deaths" around to excuse their tyrannical bullshit.
Far fewer than 1 pregnancies occur per sex. About 14% of all pregnancies in America are artificially aborted, the majority of those being Black subjects and white doctors.
You don't get pregnant every time you have sex even disregarding birth control.
Better statistical thing would be births per year; in the US we have about 3.7-3.8 **million** births per year.
600,000 is pretty tiny in comparison.
Can you save me the google search and show me the source?
[Wiki has the abortion stats](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_statistics_in_the_United_States)
[Here's a study on the breakdown for reasons given for abortions which states rape as <1% of abortions.](https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/pubs/psrh/full/3711005.pdf)
Just do anal until you want a kid.
Poop hole loop hole!
Exactly. The abortion debate isn't about choice (no matter how much the left tries to pretend it is by strawmanning the opposition as a bunch of misogynists who want to control women's bodies in this extremely specific way for some reason), it's about whether an unborn baby constitutes a human life.
If it does, then abortion is murder and nobody gets the choice to commit murder.
If it doesn't, then who gives a shit. Flush that turd down the drain.
what about the 1 in 100 chance that the condom breaks?
That crying Chad makes me physical ill.
I’m pro-life in both situations
Media gaslighting is the only thing preventing 90% of people from sharing this view.
Liberal media: “Conservatives say my body my choice for vaccines but not abortion. They are all clearly inconsistent hypocrites. I am very smart for pointing this out.”
Conservative media: “Liberals say my body my choice for abortion but not vaccines. They are all clearly inconsistent hypocrites. You are very smart for noticing this.”
Seriously the fact that this argument gets regurgitated by both sides without anyone willing to take moral consistency is wild. I’d love to see a politician boldly come out in support of both being pro-choice just to see how the media would react (most likely by not covering it whatsoever).
People do and your conclusion is right.
The Libertarian party would be great if they'd drop the whole toaster license bullshit and going on-stage half fucking naked.
Based and the media divides the people pilled
add some yellow in that grey don’t be shy
My therapist: Soychad and Front Chad don’t exist
Soychad and Front Chad:
In this situation I’m pro life
Pro-vaccine and anti-Mandate is the only based opinion on this topic
If everyone was pro-vaccine there wouldn't be a need for a mandate, but what are you supposed to do when there are enough anti-vaxers to prevent heard immunity? Tell the people that got the vaccine "sorry, we have to stay locked down despite vaccines", or tell people who can't get the vaccine "sorry, there's too many anti-vaxers so we're leaving at risk of dying"?
3/4 or.people are vax'd.
If you have the vax, wtf do you care if someone chooses not to?
The problem is that some people are immunocompromised meaning they can’t get the vaccine even if they wanted to. Heard immunity would mean they’re safe.
There’s also the problem that anti-vaxxers are getting covid and clogging up hospitals meaning people who are dying for less preventable reasons aren’t getting hospital beds.
>The problem is that some people are immunocompromised meaning they can’t get the vaccine even if they wanted to. Heard immunity would mean they’re safe.
The Vaccine does not stop you from spreading it. So that doesn't help them.
Heard immunity will help, but again you can't get that from the vax. You actually need to contract it and fight it off.
Which the CDC just updated that actually recovering from the virus is up to 13x more effective than the vax.
>There’s also the problem that anti-vaxxers are getting covid and clogging up hospitals meaning people who are dying for less preventable reasons aren’t getting hospital beds.
This is a lie, just like "horse dewormer was filling hospitals enough they had to turn away gunshot victims." Besides, deaths are waaaaay down, because we're better at treating the symptoms.
Change your flair to auth if you are gonna say stuff like this
Is there an alternative I'm missing, or are the 3 options lockdowns, mandates, and letting people die?
Your comment implies that there is a need for a mandate and/or lockdowns, which if you were truly libertarian, you would disagree with.
The options are let people *get vaccinated if they want*, or not.
Me rn being called a anti-vaxxer
I belive the person inside the womb should have the choice to kill himself or not.
i think people should have the right to take the vaccine or not take the vaccine. i do not think schools and government buildings have any responsibility to let you inside them if you're not vaccinated.
we don't let dogs without the rabies vaccine stay in kennels. we don't less kids without the measles and influenza vaccines into schools. why should we make exceptions for your simple ass? for freedom? you have the freedom to stay your ass at home until hundreds of people stop dropping death every day.
The only decent stance on this subject.
I'm pro life but damn that's a pretty good argument
you are acting like this argument is something new. It is literally why they call it "pro choice"
Problem is the prominent "pro choice" folks have taken up the "my body my choice" and "anyone that says otherwise is an evil misogynist."
Except the person getting medical procedure to be cured of life doesn't get a choice... So no
TIL that vaccination and ripping babies’ limbs off without anesthesia are the same thing!
This is why I hate both-sides-ism. One is a 100% death rate for an unborn child. The other is the potential to spread a disease with a <1% death rate to other people who have chosen to forego vaccination and risk the disease. These aren’t even in the same ball park.
I dont recognize a fetus as being a child with rights, so what now?
When does it then?
It’s not a human, or it’s a human who doesn’t deserve life?
Human but not a person.
A human is a person. Nothing else can be or is
This is Monke, not griller.
Good! Finally something I agree with! I’m pro vaccines and I believe they work, but I think it’s wrong to force anyone to take it. Yes, there might be logical consequences to not taking it but that’s your problem. Don’t take it if you want. I don’t care
Abortions aren't contagious
had to scroll past thousands of 13 year olds to find this... the issue with vaccines is that every person who gets covid and spreads it acts as an incubator for mutations, making the virus stronger and more vaccine-resistant. if we got everyone vaccinated we would have a good chance at getting the spread down to manageable levels, but with the way it's going the vaccine may be rendered ineffective before long because not enough people got it. it's a public health issue in addition to a personal one.
Based and not a fucking idiot pilled
How about abortion is legal but the fetus is still labeled a life. That way it’s more like a form of euthanasia.
I like to piss off both sides, so I confide in this statement
Can confirm I've been pissing off a lot of people.
i'm for vaccine mandates and mandatory abortions (for people i don't like)
B… b… based?
Based and best of both worlds pilled.
u/AbominableYetii's Based Count has increased by 1. Their Based Count is now 145.
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I am as well. With vaccines though unless you have a condition where you can't get the vaccine you should get it. I know it's mean but imo anyone else is just an idiot for not getting it
Me: I condemn Footballers taking the knee
Auth Right: yes brother you're taking a stand against BLM
Lib Left: SO YOU'RE A RACIST THEN
Me: no I also condemn people booing the knee and fans clapping the Knee
Auth Rights and Lib Lefts: Whose side are you on then?
Me: My side, which is to say the right side of History
"side? I am on no one's side, because no one is on my side, little orc."
if abortion wasn't equal to murder, i'd surely be pro-choice
It must suck to feel like it's murder. I kind of feel bad for prolifers now. Not to sway my opinion on prochoice, but a pause.
Yah, I just can’t see it as murder
Lets say there's this serial killer.
He kills a pregnant woman and her unborn baby.
Should he not be charged for two murders?
You have kids?
Same. I see it as a net benefit for humanity as a whole. It allows people who make a mistake to not be trapped with a partner who may be abusive or not interested in a nuclear family. Yes rapes and incest too. It allows them to get their shit together, not depend on social programs to raise their kid if they have no support systems. There are already so many unwanted kids in the adoption system as it is. Criminality rates are also higher for foster kids. Maybe call me old fashion, but if sex-ed was better across the country, and contraceptives were free including birth control. We would see less unwanted pregenancies. That would lead to a reduction of abortions.
i don't think about it that much, and the opposite point of view is also understandable
We’re definitely pro-don’tgetpregnant. But somehow giving people the choice to kill their vulnerable babies doesn’t sit well with me
This has been my stance all along
I’m convinced that the only reason people won’t take the vaccine is because they’re scared of needles
I think that’s completely fucking reasonable for both lol, don’t like the government mandating anything on the people, even if it’s a vaccine I would willingly accept. I should have the liberty to choose.
I mean I agree and I also think that individual doctors should have the choice to refute care of covid patients who have refused to do their part to stop the spread or at least put them at the very back of the line.
Just like how I think they should be able to refuse care of obese patients who refuse to help themselves except it is worse right now because, while obesity is an epidemic, it doesn't fill hospital beds like COVID which prevents other people from getting life saving care
I think the covidvaccine is a personal choice, because to be quite frankly honest, it doesn't work very well, it's not a placebo than anything.
And I think abortion is wrong, because a human in the womb is still a human, because logical consistency, and killing people is wrong.
The two don't contradict eachother.
humans dont inherently have value.... braindead folks are worthless. other than their organs of course :)
if you can acknowledge that being a human is not inherently valuable, then your only argument is saying that it will eventually become a human so therefore abortion is wrong... but then what is the difference between aborting it early on and wearing a condom? both are actions that prevent a being from existing.
the only option is to say that either all forms of birth control are wrong or that it is completely acceptable to abort a fetus before it has some level of awareness
The vaccine that’s scientifically proven to help stop the spread of covid and decrease your chances of dying is basically a placebo?
but but but that makes sense!1!1!1!1!1!1
Can't kill something if was never born in the first place. The fetus is destroyed.
You don't have to be born to be alive.
If you can respond to light, hear things, feel pain, have a heartbeat, and move around of your own free will, I'd say your a living thing, personally.
Pretty sure something with a barely developed brain is hardly a living thing and a heartbeat is just a mechanical function. Just means blood is moving through the body.
Yeah, but something is moving blood through that body.
And it ain't mechanical, because it's made of human organs.
It's literally a human, just smol and underdeveloped.
It already has some humanoid features by the time most abortions are done, which doesn't help the abortion argument at all.
And a barely developed brain is still a brain, and still alive.
You wouldn't make the argument that a monkey isn't alive, because it's brain isn't as good as yours, so don't use the same argument to say something else isn't alive
Mechanical systems can still be made up of organic material. Just because a human heart is pumping doesnt mean something is alive. Doctors can make hearts pump outside of the body without much assistance.
Also having human features doesn't mean anything. I can make a doll in a human shape and burn it and I would hardly be a murderer.
I'm having a very difficult time parsing your first sentence.
"It's more a placebo than anything" I believe is what they were trying to say.
oh so he is just retarded.
"99% of people in hospital with covid are unvaccinated"
OP: vaccine no work gud
I can’t imagine being pro choice for abortion and not pro choice for the vaccine. In 10 years if it’s not one of the required vaccines for military/school/travel I might have an issue but now? nah
I feel like that’s just based LibLeft
Are you at risk of serious Covid complications? Isolate yourself. Are you NOT at risk of serious Covid complications? Go on with your fucking life.
People shouldn't be forced to get vaccinated. If they die that's on them lol
The difference between abortions and vaccines is one you are terminating a separate life/human. And the other you are injecting yourself with an experimental vaccine.
I honestly dont see how they can be compared.
The thing I'm missing with the vaccine mandate meltdown, is don't you have the option to take a weekly test if you aren't a federal employee? People are bitching but if you're really opposed to it, take the weekly test. Biden being Biden and loving to spend money, the feds are subsidizing at home tests.
If you're a fed employee or contractor then yeah, the government can make you get the shot or fire you. What the fuck did you expect when you agreed to be the governments bitch? Play federal games, win federal prizes.
How could anyone reconcile being one but not the other?
It's my fucking body, don't tell me what to do with it. No matter what.
If you wanted to be edgy, just say you support murder. The child doesn't have a choice obviously. Somehow that's always ignored.
Flair up bro
I'm pro life on both. Police should force people to be vaccinated, and abortion should be criminalized
Centrist is too weak for this take this is a peak liberty lib right take
At least I’m consistent in my view: mandatory vaccines and mandatory abortions.
Welcome to LibRight!