T O P

AuthLeft, wtf

AuthLeft, wtf

KerPop42

I feel like this is intended to make progressivism look bad, not AQ look good


West_Locksmit

Have conservatives infiltrated woke media?


Cannibal_Raven

Spiked is Anti Woke media


UniversesHeatDeath

Even if it is it's still retarded lmao


[deleted]

both are equally bad. The blm riots were a new 9/11.


nate11s

I would have 100% believed it was satire


GoDM1N

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/10/when-the-politics-of-victimhood-turned-violent/


nate11s

I glances over it, is it pro woke or anti woke


Hairy_Yak1716

It is. The outlet is leftwing, but HATES the modern left, and sees Islamist groups like Al-Qaeda as being the rightwing counterpart of woke people.


HomarusSimpson

Spiked/ Brendan O'Neill are interesting. Old style 'proletariat' politics. His podcasts/ conversations are well worth a listen, he's an intelligent & thought provoking guy


RJPeaches

Full retard 10 x 10.


EPG_Frijole

Ah yes, Osama bin Laden. Everybody’s role model.


urban-bang

Yes


CorruptionKing

Was zur Hölle?


FlanInTheFacex42

Leute sind verrückt


Obnoxiousnessbot

This feels more like a rightist moment trying to flimsily link American liberals to Al-Qaeda.


smolppmon

Brendan is a liberal old school dude.


SlouchingToElysium

"Flimsy" link between a region consumed by Ba'athism and Western leftism


Con-Von-Hotzendorf

Damn, let the fires in Afghanistan at least settle before you start with the revisionism.


Brinkfl0yd

What are you talking about? We have always been at peace with Afghanistan and have always been at war with.. Egypt. That’s right Egypt.


Resident-Syrup6275

could someone tell me what 'islamist policies of victimhood' means


SP3008

From my guess, it might be the portrayal of the West as “evil infidels who spread their degenerate influence over the Middle East”, which make Middle Easterners victims of Western imperialism through an Islamist lens. Part of the reason why bin Laden attacked the US was his intention to see the US withdraw from Middle Eastern affairs.


Resident-Syrup6275

thanks dude


SlouchingToElysium

Al-Husseini


amergent

And he professed to care about indigenous rights too.


Fascism_Enjoyer4

This is a conservative thing to compare progs to AQ


KarlTheHammer

Hehe why did you change your flair


Fascism_Enjoyer4

Became further left


I_am_Flour

Commie.


DanzardGaming

This is so sad, he's a strasserist now


Fascism_Enjoyer4

No I'm not


KarlTheHammer

Fascist or commie?


Fascism_Enjoyer4

Fascist


Andreagreco99

He got radicalized by librights comparing progressive views to international terrorism.


moschles

The Bin Laden family was the truest expression of AuthRight. + Successful family-owned construction businesses in Yemen. + Strongly religious. + Religion was backward-facing conservative, and wanted to return to a "golden years" of long ago : Wahabism + Angry at the existing Saudi government for not forming their foreign policy around the holy lands of Mecca. + Was terrorist organisation, that is (religion + a political element) A desire to replace the existing government with one more aligned with Islam.


GladiatorUA

Was?


DanzardGaming

How is this AuthLeft?


GoDM1N

The writer is.


Cannibal_Raven

He claims to be libleft


GoDM1N

Claims and actions don't line up. He's very Auth in his policy.


Cannibal_Raven

At least you agree he's left. The media insists he's right.


GoDM1N

Generally speaking the media has no idea what Left, Right, Auth or Lib means. Hell, most people, even on this sub, don't seem to understand it.


Cannibal_Raven

(Edited for clarity) True (about media - I hope I have a proper grasp). As to why I'm not fighting you on lib for Brendan: He's got views that I'm not used to hearing and I haven't parsed them all yet. He's clearly got Marxist influence.


GoDM1N

> True (about media - I hope I have a proper grasp). a spiel I've been giving goes > Required, tax funded, gay weddings. Auth Left > > Required, personally funded, gay weddings. Auth Right > > Optional, tax funded, gay weddings. Lib Left > > Optional, personally funded, gay weddings. Lib Right The cultural things like gay rights have nothing to do with Auth, Lib, Left or Right. Its about how you go about it. The USSR was pretty homophobic, they'd literally send you to the gulag if you were gay for a number of years. Which in today's media definition of left/right doesn't *make sense*. But it makes perfect sense if you understand its just an economic axis, and the Lib/Auth axis is just about how much authority the government has. Thats it. These cultural issues don't have an axis. They're just individual policies to build on. For example lets say the topic is Drug abuse. Drug abuse itself, or even seeing it as a problem or not, is not tied to any axis. Its just a policy to build on. And how you build on that might look like... > **AuthLeft:** Outlawing drugs and requiring people who abuse drugs to take rehabilitation. All of which is government funded > > **AuthRight:** Outlawing drugs and throwing people in privately run prisons if they abuse drugs. > > **LibLeft:** Set up tax funded rehabilitation centers that are community run that take in abusers seeking help via a rehabilitation program. > > **LibRight:** Start a non-profit that does assisted treatment and other harm reduction measures like supervised injection rooms. > Hopefully thats pretty clear. But to add the idea a cultural axis exist is false because often these things are subjective, such as even seeing drug abuse as a problem, so its impossible to place them anywhere in an objective fashion. They're just opinions. And how you plan to enact those opinions is what places that prescription on the compass. > He's clearly got Marxist influence. Yea dude is a commie party member. Now identifies as a "Libertarian Marxist" but still seems pretty Auth as he generally seems to expect the government to handle a lot of these issues. So the libertarian title is kind of a oxymoron. What it seems like is he was very AuthLeft and over the years has slightly moved towards Lib, maybe is a watermelon, [and is pulling this shit now](https://i.imgur.com/VAeA885.jpeg).


Cannibal_Raven

Culture is indeed prog/con. Agreed this sub, and the initial pcm conflates the prog/con axis with economics. Progressive is considered cultural left, conservative cultural right. I agree with your analysis but I really think a prog/con axis exists and is politicized. It's true that libertarians generally accept both conservatives and progressives, so long as they too are lib. Anarchists don't for some reason... As for O'Neill, I guess it's about whether or not the government mandates his shit vs funds it. I'd have to listen more, but I have not been giving any time to spiked recently.


GoDM1N

> I agree with your analysis but I really think a prog/con axis exists It doesn't. All conservative means is you want to keep the current, be it law, cultural norm or whatever. And all progressive means is you want to change it. And theres potentially a third indication, that being *regressive*. So if you are in favor of gay marriage and live in the US you have a conservative stance on gay marriage because thats the current law of the land. If you want to revert that you'd be a regressive because you want to go back to a previous law. And if you want to extend it further (whatever that would mean) you'd be a progressive. Progressive/conservative aren't static terms. As laws change your status as either a progressive, conservative or regressive changes too. Thus you cant really use it as an axis because it isn't static, and only ever is relevant to a single issue at a time. > As for O'Neill, I guess it's about whether or not the government mandates his shit vs funds it Eh, mandates and funds. Because I'm claiming he's AuthLeft.


Gigantic_potato

Didn't they find pirated anime and games on his pc? The anime alone puts him in the right half


MrGulo-gulo

This has to be fake or a far right person drunk off of identity politics. No one supports cancel culture, you either hate it or say it doesn't exist.


GoDM1N

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/10/when-the-politics-of-victimhood-turned-violent/


threehuman

this satire bruh


Andreagreco99

Bruh why are you citing as authleft a libright journal that is saying that 9/11 is just identity politics taken too far? This article was made to shit on progressive worldview by comparing it to AQ and saying that they’re quite similar.


GoDM1N

> Once a Trotskyist, O'Neill was formerly a member of the Revolutionary Communist Party and wrote for the party's journal, Living Marxism. That said > O'Neill **self identifies** as a Libertarian Marxist But he doesn't really have lib views. He's Auth af. > He has characterized the increasing acceptance of homosexuality as “queer imperialism" in terms of LGBT rights being promoted to Russia by western activists He's also not right > He considers efforts to combat racism in football to be "a class war" driven by "elites' utter incomprehension of the mass passions that get aired at football matches".


Andreagreco99

Yeah, and now he considers himself a libertarian marxist with pro-Israel views, wrote for libertarian think-tanks and published a work called “Anti-Woke: Selected Essays” so he’s not really what I’d call a progressive authleft, especially as you point out, for his views on homosexuality which really resemble conservative talking points (homophobes are the real victims). Even if we want to ignore his own labels he’s more authright than anything else, even if he calls himself a libertarian, so he’s pretty much your average libright on PCM.


GoDM1N

Being pro/anti homosexuality isn't tied to left or right. Its just a policy. Just like gun rights isn't tied to any quadrant. [You can be the biggest homophobe and be ultra left](https://i.imgur.com/xK6Z6zWb.jpg) I also don't care what people self identify as. Thats not what assigns you a position on the compass. How you go about policy does. For example.. Required, tax funded, gay weddings. Auth Left Required, personally funded, gay weddings. Auth Right Optional, tax funded, gay weddings. Lib Left Optional, personally funded, gay weddings. Lib Right Generally speaking the compass has nothing to do with individual policies. Its simply how you enact said policies. The only exceptions I can think of being as you go deeper into Lib the less authority the government has. So government cant ban things at the bottom of the chart, while at the top it **could** ban anything. So as a Lib you wouldn't, for example, ban drugs. To deal with a drug problem you'd do what they do in Switzerland and do optional assisted treatment and other harm reduction measures like supervised injection rooms. This guy claiming to be Lib is mostly meaningless, probably a grift, much in the same way fringe right/left commentators online (Tim Pool, Dave Rubin, Kyle Kulinski, etc) grift in order to get paid more. EDIT: Also to add, in today's America at least, being pro-gay marriage is a conservative position. All conservative means is you wish for the current laws on the books to remain. He'd be a *regressive* (I assume) because he (probably) wants to revert to a previous policy where gay marriage wasn't allowed (which is also a Auth position by default, not Lib). Progressive/conservative aren't static terms. As laws change your status as either a progressive, conservative or regressive changes too.


Andreagreco99

In fact I talked about him being a conservative regarding the social aspects of his views. To be honest tho, his stances on environmentalism are way closer to the current republican party/rightwing than left’s ones and I’d put them in the economic spectrum more than just on the cultural axis. Many of his stances (Brexit, CoVid, enviromentalism as mentioned before ecc.) could be easily considered right wing talking points too. Socially he’s definitely a conservative and on many issues he puts himself on the rightwing line of thought. Also, about his economic views he’s definitely not just a Marxist. He’s against a redistributive tax paying method which would affect the riches. Plus, from this extract from an interview of him I can’t really see why you’d call him an authleft: “_So going back years and years and years, we were never fans of the state, and we remain non-fans of the state today. So take something like the redistribution of wealth – you know, I wouldn’t go to the barricades in opposition to that; I don’t think it’s particularly a problem_.” He has some left talking points too, as he mentions briefly after, but they’re more criticisms of how the left had changed in the years than anything.


GoDM1N

> I can’t really see why you’d call him an authleft Not being for a redistributive tax doesn't automatically mean you're right wing. You can have other ways to reach the same end goal of a redistributive tax that would also be Left. Not all leftist are Marxist. His statement "Not a fan of the state" is a grift. Ofc he's a fan of the state. Maybe not a ***particular*** state he doesn't agree with, but he generally plans to handle things with the power of the state from what I've seen. In a bit of a roundabout example if a government bans twitter from banning people, while the government might do that *in the name of free speech*, its actually a pretty Auth move because your using authority to control someone else, in this case a company. Now, theres a whole other discussion on "is government making laws to control companies for the sake of the individual" Auth. But that typically ends up being a LibRight vs LibLeft disagreement with LibRight being against it and LibLeft for it. Which edges him more left in this case. I think you're looking at him through the scope of modern television's media terms and not the terms we use on PCM which more closely lines up with actual definition instead of red team vs blue team simplifications. Theres no such thing as a *cultural axis*. Being for guns and gay marriage doesn't put you in the middle of anything. It just means you're *probably* more liberal unless you're going to prescribe something along with it, like in Sweden(I think it was Sweden anyway) at one point you were **required** to own a rifle. You can be completely against guns and be AuthRight. Or be completely against environmentalism and be AuthLeft. Its how you go about those policies that is going to determine which *side* you're on.


Rossiya2014

its a satire, dumbasses


Halt_theBookman

This is obviously aut-right


GoDM1N

Why


Halt_theBookman

Complaining about enviromentalism, wokenism, cancel culture and victim mentality


GoDM1N

Those things have nothing to do with left/right tho. How you go about policy does. For example.. Required, tax funded, gay weddings. Auth Left Required, personally funded, gay weddings. Auth Right Optional, tax funded, gay weddings. Lib Left Optional, personally funded, gay weddings. Lib Right Generally speaking the compass has nothing to do with individual policies. Its simply how you enact said policies. The only exceptions I can think of being as you go deeper into Lib the less authority the government has. So government cant ban things at the bottom of the chart, while at the top it **could** ban anything. So as a Lib you wouldn't, for example, ban drugs. To deal with a drug problem you'd do what they do in Switzerland and do optional assisted treatment and other harm reduction measures like supervised injection rooms.


Halt_theBookman

Cancel culture and wokenism aren't government policies


GoDM1N

Why are they exclusive to AuthRight/Left?


Halt_theBookman

It's right-wingers who complain about them, seen as its the left enacting them, with aut-left beeing more associated with them


GoDM1N

Not necessarily. Plenty of far left commentators complain about being kicked off platforms. Cancel culture can go either way, it's by no means exclusive to either the left or right. Wokenism is a reflection of cultural norms which is constantly shifting. Not to mention there are lots of examples of what we'd call unwoke leftist, including racist and homophobic leftist. Most Libs would even point at the USSR as the ultimate injustice. Those things just aren't an exclusive to either left or right. But it would be fair to say ***most*** would be authright today, but this writer is a literal communist party member. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_O%27Neill_(columnist)


LynndorTruffle

You put this in Auth left when the tweet is making these points as a negative?


smolppmon

I think Brendan was being sarcastic. He's a cool Lefty guy. Very against idpol and woke crap.


Cannibal_Raven

Would you plonk him as authleft? Guy seems more libleft to me


smolppmon

Lib for sure.


[deleted]

[удалено]


lem753

The headline is definitely being facetious


ChickenTendiePope

I mean he did do things for the environment, bringing Afghan back to the middles ages


[deleted]

“Did you just ‘He Who Smelt It Dealt It’ Racism?”


khawerti

Muslim here. They can have him. Also wha? That's misinterpreting so much I can't even start. Also, he was a Muslim. Not calling him fake, that's pussy shit lol, Pope Innocent was a Christian, ~~hitler was a jew,~~ so of course he would be an environmentalist. I honestly don't see how people can't be environmentalist to an extent.


pretty_cool_bananas

Yes yes yes side with al quaeda and drive well meaning ordinary people away from woke culture


DeadMemer420412

That’s not us, that’s the damn libleft


GoDM1N

Might not be you but the writer is pretty Auth. Feel free to disown but his still in your quad or at the least a watermelon.


DeadMemer420412

Hmm, I guess that may be auth-left, but they talk a whole lot like the libs below


GoDM1N

In what way.


DeadMemer420412

Kinda fits the stereotypical progressive lib-left


GoDM1N

Eh, you can be in any part of the quadrant and be racist, Pro-LGBT, anti-woke, pro-gun, or whatever.