By - Smithe37nz
If even one thing is listed that I think im able to do I apply. I have no degree. 1 admin qualification. I'm currently in the final stage of recruitment for a tech company. Honestly never thought I'd hear from them but I did and they seem to really like me. Just go for it when you see an opportunity. The worst that will happen is you get a generic sorry you have not been short listed email. I dont think we always know for sure what we are really capable of lol.
I get moments of nerves, or doubts. I tell my brain to f*ck up and say to myself I can do it, I am resourceful and capable. If I get too down on my myself with nerves or feeling unworthy I put brown noise on and block out my thoughts until i feel calm.
Thanks for the comment, I've been with the same company for a long time. Have young kids who are almost old enough I could handle the home life with a new job soon. I started a online course as a step forward, fortunately money isn't a big factor as I have solved the living week to week issue and we can still eat on minimum wage. This comment helps the confidence to know how other people can break thru
I have young kids too. It's hectic lol. My youngest is just old enough now for me to feel ready. If I get this job I'll be working out of her bedroom because my hubby works from home too so tight on space. Very busy household but I love reducing petrol costs! It can be exhausting trying to work around everyone's needs which always makes things feel like a lot more effort. I do think a massive part of what makes someone able to breakthrough is resilience to stress and complications. You can do eeet
I ain't hip. What does "Step me out" mean?
Tried to fight me.
Fuck that. It sounds like any job you get will be an improvement. Though, with your qualifications you should shoot for the moon.
Yeah, I sometimes think I underplan for class and could be doing more and maybe that's why I'm having trouble.
However, I don't think I should step into a classroom with no textbooks. Nothing collated ready to print for lessons either. Its a damn mess.
Dumped the most behaviourally challenging classes too.
The at the school I'm in, this will be the third experienced teacher that's quit the profession outright that I know of if I leave.
It's really hard to keep putting in the effort to plan engaging, fun lessons when you have a class determined to shit on your plans most days. Also you come home an exhausted husk and the last thing you want to do is think about work again.
Sorry for the rant but the most basic shit (identify the name of the compound using your formula name table) becomes this big ordeal.
For some of these kids in some of these classes it doesn't matter what I serve up. Unless it's fortnite, free time or let them run riot, they don't engage.
It takes me yelling, sending them out and threatening to hold them in for detention just to not yell out over top of me. Basic behavioural management 101 techniques just don't work - it's insane.
Yeah you spend most of the time teaching them how to be a reasonable human, so any science you manage to cram in on the way is like a bonus. It feels so utterly futile!!
The cherry on top - some of my colleagues have really easy classes and I feel that they were deemed to be more competent or "better" teachers because their outcomes and classes were much more settled.
That's always the way, they give the more experienced teachers the far better behaved classes, and probably justify it to themselves that they have "paid their dues". I found as a new teacher I was given worse and worse classes, especially if I changed schools, which I did a number of times. I had four junior science classes at one point while most of my colleagues had one or two at most. Then at the end of the year when all their kids went on study leave I was the only one stuck with a full schedule. Senior leadership and other teachers will always turn it around on you and make it about what you are/aren't doing. No help, just blame. They've kind of drunk the Kool aid once they get to that point.
Good fucking Lord. I feel like I've met you before.
Its systemic, unjust common and does not result on good outcomes.
I wish MOE would do something about it.
I have 4 junior classes, 2 of which are bottom stream and one of which is an awful y10 full of ego and attitude.
I have a mid y11 with really immature poor behaviour (calling out, hands on each others stuff and butt's).
+a y12 physics class.
6 classes total. I'm on code but it's fucked.
Did you leave teaching BTW?
Have taught at any other schools? Do you have any support from your HOD or any senior leadership?
One other and similar issues with lack of resourcing.
Af least I had one lab I could book and go to and my Hod would meet regularly to lend support. We were also working on developing resources together as a department.
This school I have pretty much nothing. There are some uncollated poor quality resources on a Google drive but things are a mess. Some resources are paper copies, some things are said to be on the drive but aren't.
Its more hassle just asking for things because they often end up not being where people say they are.
The department also doesn't work together much. Hod is looking at retirement soon I think and we have one teacher with all these big ideas but doesn't think through practical implementation. I think not much curriculum area knowledge - science is not his major.
Behaviour is a big issue - a lot of poor behaviour and disrespect from not my students and because I can't ID the kid I get told that they can't do anything.
Does your school have a Specialist Classroom Teacher? If so, get that person on side. Get them to come and do a few observations and suggest any tweaks to improve your teaching. Share your dismay about the HOD with the SCT - they may be able to apply some pressure through SLT so you are better supported. Make sure you are as well-prepared as possible for those difficult classes. If you have a helpful colleague, try and work collaboratively. Don’t sweat the small stuff in class. Actively teach the behaviours you want and if you don’t get through the curriculum, so be it. Find every opportunity to reward good behaviour and good work - communicate this to parents and get kids on side. A smiley face with names on the board is surprisingly effective. It’s hard in the middle of the year to try and get back on track. (Relief teacher ex HOD - given 9Impossible as teacher was in meltdown. It took me a week of patient, positive reinforcement of what was acceptable to get the class on track. No one was punished although I think one was removed for a few days. Yes it was stressful for me. I gave those kids back after 3 weeks. They used to hi5 me in the corridors after that. It can be done, but it’s really hard work!) Good luck. I feel your pain as I was in that position once - it took me 3 years to get full registration, but I went on to teach for 36 years full time.
Oh, and if anyone has a 12 hour a week WFH job for an ex-HOD English with rusty computer skills, please get in touch!
used alongside "g" and "aksed"
Lol I guess u either went to a good school or didn't grow up here lol..
Wanna step is quite common in NZ lol
"Wanna go?" was the norm when I was a kid. *When* you grew up here makes all the difference.
Have you tried changing schools? Your skills are in high demand
Aa a teacher, I can tell you that's not a normal and expected situation to be in. The school should have your back and provide a safe working environment to protect teachers from harassment. That's a workplace hazard. Even just quit straight away and relieve for a bit while you get your bearings.
Your colleagues and support from SLT can break or make it.
Yep I’ll second this. I taught for a while in an environment like OP is describing, quitting that job was a decision I’ll never regret.
That's on the cards. No way am I staying in the current situation.
If you teach physics, you should be able to pick up a job at a much nicer school easily. Pm me if you want some physics lesson plans or unit plans.
Senior physics isn't a problem for me - I know the content like the back of my hand and typically there is a textbook I use in a supplementary/support role to reinforce what I show them.
The problem is junior units which make up 90% of my teaching load with almost no resources.
Yeah, I feel you there. Im taking a learning support junior science class this year, and Im pulling my hair out with that one class...
So I would say if you cant get a new job with most of your classes as senior physics, then fair enough, look into another field. When ever I get frustrated with this job the plan I start forming is to do a post grad cert/diploma in something computing/coding/data, then try getting into that field. I think physics/science teachers have a good set of skills at explaining complicated things using simple models, so sure there is work out in the computing/software world for something like that that pays well...?!
Yeah unfortunately I only have very basic arduino coding skills
Yes, high school teaching sucks. You could transfer to a school which has better students and a better SLT support culture. You could tutor through Kip McGrath or open your own Kip McGrath. You could go teach in the UAE for a couple of years. You could look for work which utilises your science qualifications in Oz (I doubt there is much in the science field in NZ?) I am in the same boat and I'm going to leave and open a business.
I only have minors in physics and electronics. Not enough to build a career in STEM on.
For what it's worth, my third year of teaching was the most difficult and I was in a school where behaviour management was out of control. I wanted to leave the profession but then I moved to a school with better systems and work culture. That made the difference and I stayed.
You might shift schools and still want to leave teaching but in a more tightly managed school you be able to focus developing your skills while you look for something else. Also, take advantage of PD and join professional associations because that networking could lead to something outside of teaching. Good luck.
Good advice thanks. I've been teaching all boys and consider my behaviour management and ability to connect with students excellent.
Unfortunately, students I don't teach have decided to try make my life hell.
Some of ones I do teach don't respond to anything except harsh consequences and calls home.
We have no system for detentions etc. So it falls to indivodual teachers to host detentions.
Over half my classes are bottom streamed classes (favoritism in class allocation I think) so I've essentially given up hosting detentions because I have to eat and they don't come back for detention.
After school detentions are also a problem because It sometimes starts a shit fight with parents.
Let me guess. Restorative practice? It's good in principle but when teachers carry the burden (i.e. missing their breaks), it sucks. That and giving establishing teachers too many bottom streamed classes which a surefire way to burnout. I work in a department where the unit holders (including the DPs) have to teach low band classes and they're distributed evenly. I hope you get some downtime during this term break.
Yeah, restorative but we are allowed to give them consequences. Problem is it falls mainly to the teachers to implement them.
Which is doubly unfair when you have a heavy junior load with a lot fo behavioural issues.
Honestly if you want to stay in teaching but are struggling with poor student behaviour try working at one of the girls' private schools.
I'm not claiming they're full of angels or anything ridiculous like that but it will be a big change from teaching lower streams in an all boys school - you almost certainly won't have a pupil challenge you to a physical fight. It might be a big enough change for you to be able to evaluate what parts of teaching you like/dislike and whether it's the career for you.
Your skills are in really high demand, especially if you lean in on teaching physics.
Alternatively you are perfectly qualified to be a senior advisor at one of ministries/crown entities. Assuming you are in Wellington, there are lots of positions going. You could apply at advisor or senior advisor level (I would say don't worry about which level you get because there is pretty rapid promotion in a lot of government agencies at the moment as junior staff move overseas and if you negotiate well there is quite a lot of crossover in salary too). Ministry of Education is the obvious one but you can do quite a lot in the education sphere across a lot of ministries.
Funny you say that as I'm liasing with a private girls school at present.
This is me a bit too! I've taught Senior physics for 4 years and starting a career change, spent the last 3 months applying for entry level finance jobs and just got an offer this week!
My suggestion is find an area of passion, and look for entry level positions. Luckily at only 4 years I don't have to take a pay cut.
It is hard to find good workers at the moment so try to sell your experience. I think any sort of numbers or analyst jobs would be good. Do what I'm doing and try get your CFA? Hope this helps. Happy to chat further.
Just curious, did you have much experience in finance before switching from teaching? And what kind of finance role do you have now? I’m looking at doing something similar but CFA looks like it will take an awfully long time to acquire and would need significant further study and expense.
I'm still teaching till end of the year then start advisor role next year. I have basic general knowledge, yea CFA is huge but has little prerequisites which is great.
Any of the WDCs, MoE, NZQA, TEC, ERO etc are full of people who were teachers in their past lives 🤣
I'm one of them. Used to teach at secondary level. Now in one of the above listed agencies.
Great advice. Also Te Kura. A friend of mine went there and loves her remote delivery role.
You could easily do one of those advisor or analyst jobs as a starting point. I know others who have jumped from teaching to government, so many jobs going at the moment.
Starting salary expectations? I see those 6 figures and the self doubt creeps in.
>I see those 6 figures and the self doubt creeps in.
This makes me sad to read.
I'm currently a grad, finished my undergrad studies 1.5yrs ago. I'm on track to be earning close to 100k in a couple of months when I roll into a permanent position.
I don't say this to gloat, I say it because a teacher with years of experience under their belt shouldn't feel that six figures is well and truly above them. It isn't. And the crap we pay our teachers is the reason they think that.
I don't think I am worth 100k, but gosh darn it if I'm not going to fight for that money like anyone else would. We're all just faking it till we make it. Don't get left behind
I don't even mind the pay. Its decent.
Its the working conditions, lack of of resourcing, lack of support and insane student behaviour that is making me want to quit.
Advisors can start on 70k, seniors are at 100k but not all are on that, it's generally the top end of the band as opposed to those new to the space.
Realistically, you'd be starting as an Advisor as you are going to need to learn the ropes of how government works. As mentioned, probably about $70k (but likely much easier than being a teacher).
$100k + will take a few years to get to, and will depend on how you progress.
Anyone would understand, kids are shit these days.
It’s a good time to get into roles like Business Analysis with very little experience … if you can pair that with an industry like tech or govt, that would be a good career change.
Question on this - is this just because Business Analysts are in a particularly big shortage?
I've got an opportunity in a BA which has popped up, and I have little direct experience. Trying to decide if it's a good option career wise, as it'd be a bit of a change from the work I'd be doing otherwise.
It’s good career wise and it is because there is a supply shortage
I’ve considered a switch to this, what’s the salary like starting out? Jobs never seem to want to list this which makes it hard to gauge.
Larger govt departments seem to be 70-80k for junior BAs
Have you looked at private schools, when I was a teenager I switched from a low decile school to a private school. Was amazed how much more teachers were respected, and how much more I was able to learn. You might deal cringe at a few rich kid comments but its miles better than some shit trying to act tough in front of his mates
Thought about teaching in Prisons?
Never considered it
Try to repackage your resume as someone who would be a good fit for learning and training departments of companies.
Source of idea: had a friend who initially became a teacher in our old school then went on and transitioned to being in the training department of various companies. It's still teaching, but you teach older "kids".
I also taught bio and physics. I've experienced a lot of what you're describing and it feels almost like PTSD. I quit just before covid and my timing couldn't have been better.
I went back to my previous industry, and did service work aligned with it. I worked in a call centre but the swearing and bad behaviour on the other end of the line was just as bad. I put up with it for a while because WFH was a pretty big perk at the time
I currently have a job that definitely uses my teaching skills, but in a very different way, and with adults. I'm still disrespected at work, but now by management instead of students and customers. I guess that's better? They don't swear at me at least...
I moved from teaching, to customer service, to working in a government role. I would absolutely make the change again. I started out on a low salary in government, but if you're proactive you can make use of internal moves to get a lot of experience and transition into better roles quite quickly. So even if you are applying for more entry or lower-level government positions, you can go in with the aim of working in that role for \~8 months to get used to the environment and responsibilities before hopefully jumping up into something with better pay. It's a great time to look for a new job, go for it. Office work has different kinds of stress and obviously you loose out on a good amount of holidays, but I accepted that I am not passionate enough about teaching to be a good educator in the face of the kind of behaviour etc that you described.
>reat time to look for a new job, go for it. Office work has different kinds of stress and obviously you loose out on a good amount of holidays, but I accepted that I am not passionate enough about teachi
I am passionate but I'm losing all passion I have for the job I love thanks to the lack of support structures and incredibly poor student behavior.
I'm a high school English teacher, resigned yesterday. Going to a tertiary sector job (not teaching/tutoring/lecturing). The hardest part is finding an employer who is willing to wait your 8 weeks notice, but if they really want you, they'll understand. Good luck in your job hunt; it can be done!
HMU if you want to chew the fat. I’m in the same department in a public school, different specialty but juniors and Y11s - same same 😩. Happy to help with putting you in touch with some gurus in your specialty area for resources as we’re a large dept of 18, we do a few niche subject too.
Is much of the resourcing in need of a lab? I don't get one.
At all? No lab for senior?
I have some timetabled slots where I have to move to the lab if I want to use it.
I have a y11 science class where I've made do.
Y12 physics can mostly be done in class.
Hey OP, I taught for six years and now have one of those government advisor jobs (still in education). Would be happy to chat if you wanna know about moving from classroom to govt job.
Damn what area is this? Applying as a secondary teacher soon and this is exactly what I fear.
More dependent on school and individual department than area.
Pmd you in the interest of not doxing myself
Yeah It seems crazy that you have to put up with that. I mean your job should just be to teach... not to parent other people's kids. Personally I wouldnt bother with detention or wasting time in arguments. Cant you just say "Doors just over there, feel free to leave" 👋 Invest your time in the kids trying to learn and make sure they crush at exam time.
Smart.. can do math..
Actuarial science is the answer… make a shit ton of money..
Fuck those little shit..
You deserve $$$
Also no one give a fuck your life commitment to teaching so just call it quits.
Also get the fuck out of New Zealand it’s a dump of a country. Maybe when you come back in 20 years it would have sorted it self out
only have minors in physics and electronics. Not enough to build a career in STEM on.
My friend is now in HR, better hours, benefits and money