T O P

So apparently these were the other Psychotic Breakdown incidents…

Honestly wouldn’t have minded hearing more about these but it does explain how they were passed off as straight up terrorise when coming after the Thieves.

killerstrangelet

I looked at these a while back. Note that these are nowhere near *all* the incidents, it's a selection of the most recent and/or memorable ones. * reckless bus driving accident that caused injuries and deaths; * convenience store bombing; * arson incident inside a tunnel; * marina fuel leak; * Yokuta (? they mean Haneda) Airport shuttle bus crash; * Anehazuru monorail incident (the monorail from P3); * Cabinet Office cyberattack; * poisoning incident.


Adam_The_Actor

Honestly, that's really cool and I wish the game actually made more an effort to highlight how frequent these incidents were because realistically this would likely cause massive panic to anyone using public transit. That's not to say it would explain much mind, if anything it actually undermines the notion of being able to pin it all on the Phantom Thieves. The Phantom Thieves Change of Hearts were all localised in Tokyo, primarily near or around Shibuya but these seem to be taking place in various locations including Port Island based on what you're saying. I get that it was partially covered up by Shido as a means to set-up Akechi for the fall but even so... it does makes Sae's interest in the case make a lot more sense. I am curious as to what the purpose of the Cyber Attack was though... that one seems like an odd one out as it's not really focused on killing people.


killerstrangelet

You can see this at the start of the game, if you listen to the gossip and talk to some NPCs. The whole city (and possibly beyond? though Tokyo seems to be the overwhelming focus) is petrified. The epidemic of psychotic breakdowns is *massive*, and the fact that nobody knows what causes them, combined with the confusion over what they even are (most people mix them up with the mental shutdowns, to varying effect) makes them even more frightening. Why do you think this makes it difficult to pin it on the PTs? Isn't the intent "the PTs did the psychotic breakdowns you were all so afraid of"? More of them seems like it would have a bigger effect, if anything. That cyber attack does stand out. It's possible, of course, that not all the events on the list were really connected to the conspiracy. On the other hand, there *is* that IT guy, and we do see a big data leak as early as May....


Professional-Ad-6373

Some of those look pretty sophisticated to be product of a psychotic breakdown, they require focus, commitment and resources, mainly the bombing, the cyber attack and the poisoning. The psychotic breakdown showcased in the game and the anime are sudden, imprevisible and the victims were probably pretty sane before suffering the breakdown.


killerstrangelet

That's a great point. That said, the Wild Duck Burger guy uploads nude selfies to the Internet during his breakdown, so there's clearly *some* flexibility. It may just be that what people do when their hearts are "unchained" differs. It turns out to be in question whether the subway driver has a breakdown or shutdown, which would mean the only one we ever *see* call of chaos used on is Akechi.


SmoopufftheShoopuff

> It turns out to be in question whether the subway driver has a breakdown or shutdown He survives and is on record saying that he doesn't remember what happened which points to a psychotic break. Mental shutdowns are either fatal or leave the target in too much of a vegetative state to function normally anymore.


killerstrangelet

But where exactly does it say that? The news reports only that he's being questioned and his responses are "vague". The comment on 4/17 in Leblanc is that "the driver couldn't even speak when they tried asking him questions". There's a mention in the aftermath of the accident that "some of [the people who caused these accidents]" suffered mental shutdowns during interrogation, which leaves the possibility open that the guy is just sitting there in a chair groaning. Plus, when Shadow Ooe confesses to having the driver attacked in Shido's Palace, he says he requested a mental shutdown for him. But the reason I'm less sure of this one than I used to be is simply that the driver looks exactly like Okumura, Kobayakawa and the SIU director. He doesn't seem to be pursuing any real desire, tbh, or taking any true action; he's just clinging to the dead man's switch in his cab. The counterargument, of course, is that it *is* supposed to be the psychotic breakdowns that cause "accidents and scandals"—but many things suggest this is a far greyer area than it seems.


SmoopufftheShoopuff

> But where exactly does it say that? The animated cutscene with Sae and the SIU director. "After questioning, even he could not explain his high speed approaching the station." That does sound to me like he was lucid during interrogation. There is also the fact that the time frame for mental shutdowns is just too random. If this subway driver dies a month down the line, possibly while he's not even at his job, it has no influence on the minister of transportation who Ooe really wanted to hit with this. While for a psychotic break, you could have Akechi scout out possible targets and select the one most likely to go berserk at their job.


killerstrangelet

Shit, that's a great point about the cutscene. But it's not different from the "his answers were vague", is it? It seems like we have *conflicting* information here that makes it hard to be sure of anything—which is very on-brand for the fog of terror that clouds the start of the game. I'm just not sure any more that it warrants the certainty we all seem to have that it was a psychotic breakdown. All we *know* is that we see the driver. And when we hear talk about people who've seen breakdown victims, they don't tend to be talking about how terrifying they looked—unlike with Okumura, for instance. As far as shutdowns go, Okumura dies at the perfect moment, before he can talk. So does Kobayakawa. The SIU Director appears to die at once. What makes you think the timeframe is random?


SmoopufftheShoopuff

> they don't tend to be talking about how terrifying they looked—unlike with Okumura, for instance. No one references it for the driver either, we just see it in a cutscene. I believe this could be another case of, the animation being done early in development so some inconsistencies might sneak in, like the lack of Joker's glasses in the firework scene, the crew being in their school uniform in Futaba's palace despite summer vacation, and Joker being in his school uniform for Shido's palace despite living his best life as a currently deceased boy. > What makes you think the timeframe is random? You can destroy Okumura's palace as early as September 17th. His shadow can't be killed any later than that, and yet the shutdown doesn't happen until October 11th.


killerstrangelet

Yet it's clearly not random at all. He dies at the moment he's about to Reveal All—just like Kobayakawa. The timeframe is *different*, that doesn't make it random—if anything, it makes it look triggered; someone here suggested we could fanwank it as being to do with the shadow not being called on until a critical moment. But that really is an explanation in search of evidence. But yeah, that was the point—nobody is in the cab with the driver *except us*. We see him, when nobody else does. But (for instance) the Wild Duck Burger guy who used his phone during a breakdown isn't described as *unwell* at all. And, again, the cab driver *is not acting* like someone having a breakdown. He's acting like someone having a shutdown. I do prefer not to put things down to production inconsistency, if I can possibly avoid it. There is that mention that the driver "couldn't even speak"—which could be wild rumour; or there's the possibility that the *news* could be wrong (it is, after all, controlled by the conspiracy) and that one or other of the rumours is correct.


SmoopufftheShoopuff

> But yeah, that was the point—nobody is in the cab with the driver except us. We see him, when nobody else does. He had to leave the cab at some point. That blood/black goop isn't going anywhere, especially if he had a shutdown and isn't in control of his own facilities. Again, the way he acted, is strictly something we saw in a cutscene that was likely produced long before the last changes to the script were made. > if anything, it makes it look triggered That makes no sense. All you have to do for a mental shutdown is kill the shadow. There is nothing to suggest any further tempering is at all possible. It's just for dramatic timing because, at the end of the day, this is a story meant for entertainment.


MuuhRenai

Oh sadly we never got that info in game, this makes the whole plot make more sense to me


Adam_The_Actor

Agreed, it really helps emphasise how dangerous the Psychotic Breakdowns are and why it'd be so hard to isolate a culprit behind them. These incidents are all destructive but highly variable in method. Some of these locations though would suggest they're targeted attacks especially the Cyber Attacks, Yacht Harbour attack and Poisonings... these are a lot harder to pass off as... random person going insane. Though I suppose Shido and Akechi were covering it up.


SgtZaitsev

Its to my understanding that Akechi is responsible for ALL of these?


SmoopufftheShoopuff

It's possible that some freak accident just slipped in or that some people just went off to the deep end on their own but definitely almost all of them, yes. (Responsible for the cause of them at least, since he can't control what people do once he uses Call of Chaos on their shadow self.)


MaraBlaster

As far as I know, it seems to be a mix of Shido's minions and Akechi, Akechi has absolutely no power in the real world, he can't kill irl, poison someone or do anything outside the Metaverse. That is why Shido still got classic hitmen and assassins around for the dirty work. All he can do is make people have a Psychotic Breakdown (Call of Chaos) and its random what happends during such (absolutely no control, from a women jumping berserk into traffic like Wakaba to a dude stripping naked in his office and wander the company) or Mental Shutdowns, which turns them into potatoes and kills them via heart attack. So any longterm stuff can't be done by Akechi, so any bombing or poisoning has to be done by Shido's other minions. 'Akechi is all about sudden, shortterm outbursts, very effective regarding anything traffic related (which compiles like 90% of the accidents) when using Call of Chaos.


Kingdyno2

I really thought you said adachi and was like “yep, makes sense”


KikiYuyu

Wow. The game really underplayed how severe the issue was. I thought it was like how a little while back there were like 3 or 4 train derailments occurred one after another in America. It was certainly a freaky string of events, but it was still possible to see them as just accidents. This feels way worse than that, especially the bombing and the arson.


SmoopufftheShoopuff

If you pay attention to the subway announcements on your way to school, they do periodically mention more psychotic breaks (in the fast food industry, setting up Okumura) over the course of the game.


KikiYuyu

I remember those, but some guy at a restaurant acting weird doesn't measure up to a bombing


killerstrangelet

There's also a car crash that kills four people and a guy who starts waving a knife around on a train, and that's just off the top of my head. The psychotic breakdowns stop for a while at the start of June, and then kick in again later in the year—in the autumn, I think, when Project PM Shido is kicking into full gear. The odd one is still reported, but people aren't so scared of them and ask why they stopped, and if they were ever real at all.


SmoopufftheShoopuff

At least one of those was arson, that's a bit more than "acting weird".


LaMystika

Of course they underplayed it; how else would they be able to successfully convince all of you that >!Akechi was just a sad innocent victim who never actually did anything wrong if you knew the full extent of everything he’s been doing with no remorse for *years?!*!<


KikiYuyu

Truuuuue


Autogembot123

By most Persona 5 Fans not knowing any of the lore surrounding the game.


magnidwarf1900

Damn >!Akechi's on a streak!<


Virushexe

It was always pretty clear to me how severe the issue was and was surprised how many people just don't see it or how it connects to the Phantom Thieves. Psychotic breaks are people suddenly behaving in an unexplainable manner. The changes of hearts are... people suddenly behaving in an unexplainable manner. Akechi's "It could be that what seem to be ordinary crimes are actually being perpetrated by these methods" is actually right. The fact that he is an antagonist and doing it himself doesn't change that. This is how the public sees it.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Metalwater8

This is why I can’t stand the uwu he’s a soft boy who is just misunderstood, he’s part of the team, RenXAkechi etc etc. Like the dudes a horrible monster.


codus571

And yet, people still glorify and romanticize Akechi. Man took potentially up to 100 innocent lives, maybe more with all the collateral damage his actions caused.


Luna_Jade1412

People can love villains without glorifying them. I love Akechi primarily because of his complexity not because I defend his actions (don’t worry, I still find it bizarre that some fans defend his actions and say he did nothing wrong when that’s clearly not the case, thank goodness not all of us do so)


Sure_Sundae_5047

You know "Akechi did nothing wrong" is a joke, right? It's a funny thing that people say *because* he very clearly did a *lot* wrong. The most I've ever seen someone defend Akechi's actions is saying that Okumura had it coming (which he kinda did) or trying to say that he only killed 10 people because we only hear about 10 confirmed deaths linked to him in the game. And yeah I find the second one a little weird because it's very much implied that he killed more than that and I don't really understand why people grasp at straws to try and make it seem like he wasn't *that* bad, but nobody is genuinely saying that he was in the right or that Wakaba deserved it or anything like that. People are allowed to like Akechi without having to preface every single statement with "I know he's a bad person and I'm not defending his actions". At the end of the day he's not real and nobody actually died.


Luna_Jade1412

The reason I wrote that comment is because I see so many ask and/or get mad about people liking Akechi - I know he’s not real and it doesn’t really matter, but a lot of the people I see who dislike Akechi usually question those who do like him solely because of the fact that he’s killed people. That’s why I brought up the not defending his actions point, even if it is very commonly used, because many of those who question it seem to forget that


Sure_Sundae_5047

Oh I know and I get that it can be a minefield commenting on this subreddit because some of the Akechi haters are rabid, I wasn't really arguing against you specifically, I just see so many people talk about Akechi fans who defend his actions and yet I never actually see that happening. I think basically everyone who likes him knows that he's done things that are indefensible. Most of the time when I see someone accusing an Akechi fan of "trying to defend his actions" it's literally just someone saying that they sympathise with him or correcting canon facts.


Tough_Passion_1603

Because the game would say that somehow nobody died in a damn train crash to defend akechi


codus571

Just like Somehow...Palpatine survived


Autogembot123

Except the Game DID say someone died in >!Shido's palace!< Edit: or at least someone wanted that to happen


killerstrangelet

Nope, it says Ooe wanted to discredit the two guys, not kill them.


Autogembot123

You haven't actually played the game have you?


Tough_Passion_1603

6 times actually And it doesn't matter as it's Just my opinion


Autogembot123

there's an opinion and then there is a lie


LaMystika

It’s exactly why the game downplays this stuff: because fanbases (not just this one) think that the best villains in stories now “aren’t villains at all” and are even bigger victims than the protagonists. Why do you think so many Persona fans think >!Akechi and Maruki!< are the best villains in the entire series now?


Luna_Jade1412

People think that because of their writing? Complexity? Are people wrong for liking a character solely because they’ve done something wrong? Why do we like ANY villains for that matter? People love Thanos and praise him as a villain despite having killed trillions. What about superheroes who kill the main villain’s grunts/goons? People can like a character without approving of their actions. I love Maruki because it’s sad to see someone with genuine and honest motives go down such a wrong and extreme path. I love Akechi because I think he’s a tragic character who can be examined from many different angles.


LaMystika

Maybe I’m weird, but my favorite villains in fiction tend to be the ones who are unapologetically pieces of shit who don’t get redeemed by the protagonists or the narrative. But I get why that clashes with fandoms nowadays. My “favorite” P5 villain is >!Shido, because he’s just an awful piece of shit. There’s no tragic backstory explaining why he is the way he is, and he didn’t need one. He’s a shitty politician who wants power, and he honestly didn’t need to be deeper than that in terms of his characterization. His *actions* characterize him more, and he ruined multiple people’s lives. Including Akechi’s, and I actually like that Shido played him like a fool. In any other situation, that might’ve made Akechi sympathetic to me, but that would’ve required Akechi to either 1) not do all of the shit he did, or 2) show actual remorse for doing it. Neither happened. So yes, I vastly prefer the version of Persona 5 that didn’t queerbait the shit out of his relationship with Joker, and it’s why I like Strikers more than Royal.!<


SmoopufftheShoopuff

I like how you use the word "now" multiple times to imply that this is a new thing. As if fans haven't been stanning Darth Vader since the 80s. He is even considered a redeemed character and all he did was turn against his master at the last possible second because he couldn't let his son die.


LaMystika

Yes, I know about Vader. He’s a big reason why the trope of rooting for villains is called “Rooting for the Empire”. Hell, there’s still a lot of people who think his scene at the end of Rogue One was the best part of that movie. More importantly, Vader was only redeemed as far as *Luke* was concerned; nobody else would’ve had any sympathy for him. In fact, in the new canon of the Disney universe, Leia’s political career was actually ruined once people found out Vader was her father. Does that sound like the universe just forgave and redeemed him? This is exactly why Vader’s redemption meant that he had to die.


SmoopufftheShoopuff

> Does that sound like the universe just forgave and redeemed him? My dude, he is literally in Jedi heaven hanging out with Yoda and Obi-Wan.


LaMystika

The Jedi were always flawed people anyway


DARDAR_YT

Damn, >!Akechi!< was not fucking around huh?


insertbrackets

Akechi directly caused a lot of injury, pain, and death. I hate how the story uwu’s him even though he literally killed some of the party’s family members on top of countless civilians.


Autogembot123

The fans did that themselves. All it took was Akechi to say he was a bastard child and EVERYONE ignored what he did. The Story never uwued him. He is a literal bastard with a twisted motivation. What the Story did was turn him into Light.


insertbrackets

True but it’s still textual though, particularly with Royal where Akechi spends time as co-protagonist with Futaba and Haru, who make some weak noise about not liking this but going along anyway. I feel like neither of them would agree to that—Futaba particularly. It’s an issue with anime/manga inspired work. Kingdom Hearts did this with the big bad in the last few minutes, redeeming him.


Autogembot123

Except Akechi was never redeemed and didn't want to exist.


Kibou-chan

>What the Story did was turn him into Light. /r/unexpecteddeathnote


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aupa0205

My biggest complaint with the story of this game is that it always did a lot of saying “Hey there’s a lot of psychotic breakdowns happening almost all the time!” But we only see it happen 3 times in the game (at the beginning, Kobayakawa, and then Okumura). Persona 3, on the other hand, had The Lost appearing more and more as you progressed through the game, and the state of Tatsumi Port Island deteriorated slowly. I get that it was Tokyo, and it’s massive, but I would’ve liked to actually see more of these incidents. Would’ve also appreciated the general public becoming more and more afraid of what’s happening, similar to people with the Fog from Persona 4.


bwick702

But his dad was mean to him guys! We should totaly forgive him.


PSILighting

Yeah no the breakdowns were so common that they became a thing where people would go “that’s another one!” So many that it’s not a worry.


Autogembot123

At a certain point it get's tiresome.


Autogembot123

Can't wait to pull these off in a future Spin-off game.


IndiscreetBeatofMeat

What app is this?


Adam_The_Actor

Would you believe me if I said, Google Translate?


Lightknight16

but that is a lot of people that has died or psychiatry affected people by 1 teenager. He is a psychopath.


noncombativebrick

If these are all psychotic breakdowns, then the Akechi Stans really need to stop, he's literally just Dabi at this point


Sumiren5r_7110

THANK YOU. FINALLY. I can read what they say after 4 playthroughs


MacroMicro1313

Derail a train, crashing a bus, created a blazing tunnel fire, damn their kill count must be in the hundreds.


ZombiFelineTuba

I wish we got see more stuff about the Psychotic Breakdows but that would probably bump the rating to Adults only rating


Porkyisgod

I get that psychotic breakdowns pretty much breaks your mind and drives people to insanity, but is there a reason to bomb a convenience store of all places?


Adam_The_Actor

Well I mean that’s kind of the nature of how Akechi kills, he makes his victims commit these extreme and destructive act look as if they’re random when he’s selectively trying to kill specific people. It’s like Akechi says in his social link, you take out the victim without directly tying yourself to it. The setting of a bomb in a convenient store is odd, but that’s also why it’s perfect.


Cheese-hole

Pancake boi be wildin’


[deleted]

The Akechi kill count is going UP


[deleted]

His ass is not dodging the bioterrorism allogations


Koku-JinIncel

They were just being silly. 😔


somehow_allowed

accident,