Teachers leaving their jobs at an accelerating rate in Pennsylvania, new study finds

I left after 18 years.

Bad administrators, idiot state and federal lawmakers not knowing what they're doing in passing mandates, and crazy school board members collectively are worse at making life difficult for teachers than the parents or kids.


I left after 18 years. Bad administrators, idiot state and federal lawmakers not knowing what they're doing in passing mandates, and crazy school board members collectively are worse at making life difficult for teachers than the parents or kids.


I really considered running for school board in my very rural town and I don't even have kids. Sadly, I wouldn't feel safe in my home once my liberal views came out and I called people out on their anti science/ pro religious shit.


That plus superintendents and building principals and curriculum directors, etc. treating you like mushrooms: kept in the dark and fed a lot of hot air and bullshit before golden parachute jumping to the next higher-paying district and repeating A lot of administrators and politicians out there who like to pretend everyone else, including teachers, are stupid and that they're the final authority on what's right. Most thankless, stressful volunteer job you could do if doing the right thing for kids is your goal.


This is exactly why I will not run for any office in my county.


We are going to have a generation of idiots. Very sad.


Going to?????


Worse than currently




We already do…see Boomers


Not according to my mom, who claims with a straight face that her high school education in Pa was so good it was a "college level education in high school." She never went to college but genuinely believes she got the same education I did with a Bachelor's degree.


Compared to what? Louisiana?


I wouldn't try to make sense out if because it doesn't make sense. My mother doesn't make a lick of sense. She has stated numerous times that the school district I grew up in is terrible. She thinks that my siblings and I got a terrible high school education. Meanwhile, the school district I grew up has always been a good district. She still thinks it's a trash school district and complains about it. Meanwhile it's one of the better districts in the state. US News rankings has it in the top 150 in the state (without giving too much info about me away) out of 676 districts they ranked. Out of the 20,000 or so in the whole country it's ranked in the top 3500. It's always been a good district. People are clamoring to move into the district currently where there is a boom of new houses being built. There have always been a lot of new houses being built in the district actually. The district has plenty of money and always has. According to my 73 year old mother the district is terrible and she got a college level education in high school. And by the way, the district she went to high school in is currently ranked in the 507-676 range of districts in the state. They don't rank those with an actual number, it's just 507-676. Nobody is getting a college level education where she grew up, at least not anymore.


Maybe college level back then! Even if she DID, by some stretch of imagination, get a “college level high school education”, a **LOT** has changed and advanced since her day. Shit, even Pluto isn’t a planet, and then is, and then isn’t… what zoomer let alone elderly high university grad can keep up?! For real though this nonsense bothers me to no end. They’re just mad because we, by virtue of the advancement of time and technology, know more than she ever gathered in her College High days. She jelly.


Ask her to take a freshman level calculus exam and see how well she does


Blaming societies ills on boomers got tiring years ago. This is not their fault.


83.7% their fault. They got all the benefits and don’t want to share them now


They kinda are though. They got our troops out of Vietnam, got cushy corporate jobs and became the terrible people that they used to abhor. Money does things to people.


Do it. Run as a "reasonable moderate." Don't even bring up your liberal views, just say things like "let teachers do their job". If you need free (professional) campaign advice, please send me a PM.


Exactly why I don’t want to run for a local office and assume no one else around here does.. Repubs run unopposed and I’d assume anyone who throws their hat in the ring becomes a target for harassment


I understand your sentiment but this is exactly why the fascists grow in power. It's our duty to stand up and resist. (I'm speaking generally not targeted at you).


It's funny because over here where I'm from it's the opposite problem. If you didn't know any better you would think you need a mix and not all one way because neither side is wrong on everything.


Get a gun, it's what they do.


I have a bunch, but don't really fancy shooting someone. I decided to just keep to myself and watch the world burn.


Liberal views usually favor reason, I’m ready for common sense in education again


Teachers quitting en masse is happening in so many states. Please continue to share your experience with the public and advocate for the schools and students who need sane and non-politicized voices. Here in Missouri our schools and teachers are woefully underfunded by the politicians. Our recent attorneys general seem to like to threaten and sue local districts for basic health measures or teaching that slavery is actually a part of history.


I will. I'm sorry to hear what's happening in MO. It will surprise people but in my the kids and parents were fine, they liked me and I did my best for them. The school building environment was fine other than jamming too many kids into a room. I felt safe at school and enjoyed teaching (I came from a family of educators). But those in charge of teachers get away with some real shit and are never held accountable and that's wrong considering what they get paid to sit in their administrative and legislative offices.


>Teachers quitting en masse is happening in so many states. This is the goal. Not the ultimate goal, clearly, but a goal none the less.


I honestly don’t buy into the “plan” to get teachers to quit. I think it’s just a career that benefitted from dedicated people so administrations leveraged that love for the career to under pay, under staff and neglect their needs knowing the teachers would make ends meet. Now is just the breaking point from years of neglect




Is that the one where it’s a socialist plot to dumb down American youth so that they will be more complacent workers? I’m sorry, just not going to get me on a theory that the entire career path of people dedicated to learning and a love of teaching others are actually part of a conspiracy to make sure they fail at teaching so others don’t learn. Much better chance dipping into our instincts of social belonging to create “us vs them” propaganda to captivate audience and deceive them into thinking there’s a war on education when really it’s just going into decay because short term limits lead to short term planning. That propaganda is also behind a $9.99 pay wall for a 15 page short story that benefits from dipping into said instincts to boost sales.


Boomers are cleaning out! Lol that’s a big chunk of why, too. PA is old as fuck.


The change in school board of the district I worked for was the final straw in the growing list of reasons I left for a private company.


Did you leave before your pension vested? That had to be a very tough decision. That's one of the best things about being a teacher, isn't it?


Yeah it’s fantastic, my dad retired at 51 and gets over six figures a year and highly discounted healthcare and also has various annuities he can cash in as well that are high interest and tax free he had access to similar to 401k but much better since the schools were non-profit. He’s a multimillionaire with a huge pension, almost 70 so he’s gotten millions out already, and basically worked 5 hour days, no summers etc. great deal Overall


Exactly. I have close friends in a large nearby district that are 18 years in, and can retire at 55 with their pension being 90% of their salary (which will be six figures at that time). Their Masters degree was paid for by the district. They get summers off. And by the 5th year of teaching English, it's super easy. Yes it's a tough district with some discipline problems. But it's not *that* bad.


I saw a teacher on tik tok get freaking pepper sprayed by a student for taking her phone. All the money in the world isn't worth the kind of disrespect they put up with.


The worst part of this? The kids have no repercussions. They'll be right back in class like nothing happened. At my son's PPS middle school, a student threw a chair at the principal, another attempted to stab another student with scissors, another threatened to slice open a teacher with their scissors. There was also a kid that picked up a stapler and bashed another student in the head repeatedly with it. Out of all those incidents, the only one that saw and suspension time was stapler kid. This stuff happens all year long every day. There is zero learning getting done for the kids that actually put in some effort. It's sickening.


"[Restorative discipline](https://www.panoramaed.com/blog/restorative-practices-to-implement)" This shit is a nightmare for well behaved kids and their parents: >Restorative practices provide students and caring adults with an intentional, inclusive, and respectful way of thinking about, talking about, and responding to behavioral issues. When integrated in a school community, restorative practices help to build and repair relationships, prioritize student agency, and de-emphasize punitive discipline in favor of communication to resolve conflict.


Restorative discipline could work if it was ever actually implemented. Somebody else really jarred me by pointing out that if it never really gets implemented, or implemented properly, then maybe the problem is with the system itself, and not the implementation of it. Another big systemic issue: we are pushing far too much academic achievement onto too broad a base. There are lots of valuable jobs that will not use 90% of what you learn in high school, and we could be using this time to give a lot of kids technical skills that have a much more immediate payoff and practically use. In Germany they have the gymnasium system, which is also kind of brutal in a different way, imagine being pigeonholed in middle school for your trajectory for the rest of your life. Our history of discrimination also doesn't do us any favors, so I'm not sure how implementation would really work out out here. But it can be really rough trying to teach physical science to kids who can barely read in high school. Or trying to get cell theory across to kids who can barely sit in the classroom. IEPs or no, sometimes it does feel like hitting your head against a wall.


Getting pepper sprayed in the face is assault. If nothing happens, it’s because that teacher didn’t press charges. Having said that, teachers often get pressured not to press charges…


>Getting pepper sprayed in the face is assault. If nothing happens, it’s because that teacher didn’t press charges. That's not how it works. A citizen doesn't "press charges." That decision is up to police and the local prosecutor. Obviously the incident needs to be reported to police. So maybe that's what you're referring to?


Many of these instances, the police are called. They take a statement, but can't do much since they are minors. The school board allows the lunatics to run the asylum and the teachers are fed up. They go to the Union and file grievances for unsafe working conditions, but that goes nowhere. It's just a shit show.


Indeed, that's how it usually goes down from what I've heard.


So you missed the video a few months back of the paraprofessional, not even a real teacher (so probably making 20k-25k a year) being [brutally attacked](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/11ae0ny/highschool_student_beats_down_teacher_because_she/) for taking a students Nintendo Switch?


A Nintendo Switch? Yet another device that doesn't have any business being in school.


Eh don’t punish the vast majority of good kids. I brought my Switch to school all the time back in 2017, but I only used it in between classes or during lunch. Probably better than a phone because at least it encourages community. We’d play Smash Bros with a big crowd it was hype.


We weren't allowed any technology during the school day. That included between classes and lunch periods.


Holy fuck. Those other teachers just stood there rather than push him off of her.


I may be out of touch with the current day requirements in the classroom since I am 42 years old but I cannot think of any reason why a kid would need to have a phone in class. None. Frankly I think districts should have a policy of no phones in the classroom.


Most do. But it's tough to enforce when kids wear baggy clothes with lots of pockets and carry a backpack all day. When they're found on the kid, they get taken away. The kid's reaction was the issue here.


I'd definitely agree that the kids reaction was an issue, but baggy clothes and backpacks aren't a problem lmao, regular clothes could hide a phone with the same amount of ease , and if a kids phone is in their backpack they aren't using it anyway.


Phones have tons of practical applications, the school system is refusing to integrate them properly, and the kids are taking shit way too far. Honestly I absolutely love teachers , and the insanely valuable work they do , but the administration behind everything causes tons of issues everywhere, and so do the kids in response. I'd say in some capacity both groups are to blame with the current situation


Yeah, phones can be totally a useful tool, it's just that it's also literally on par with an addictive drug for the developing brain when it comes to the capacity to pay attention. But if lockers aren't secure, and the darn thing is worth hundreds of dollars, and you want your kiddo to be able to contact you in an emergency, and have it on them before and after school during transit, whether it's busing or after school activities, then it's something like this. Catch 22




"I need to talk to my child in an emergency" That is the card they pull every time. Phones are literally destroying the brains of this generation.


Bless the teachers. I thank my lucky stars for the ones my children have had that have treated them as if they are their own. Grateful beyond measure.


It's true across the country, in every state.


I’ve taught HS English for 20 years in a wealthy suburban district. I’m not sure I’d go into the profession today. Let’s take look at the challenges: Low respect of the profession by non-teachers, culture war attacks(calling us groomers, saying we’re teaching CRT, banning books, attacking science curriculum,etc), eroding pensions, attacks on unions, lack of support by administrators with regards to discipline & safety, poor funding equity statewide, outdated state standards, vast disparities in staff quality, resources, across the state. And notice how none of these have anything to do with the students that walk in our doors. On one hand I’ve got community members saying I should be armed to counter possible school shootings. And then the same community members will attack me for having a poster of Martin Luther King Jr. in my room or tell my science colleagues the Earth is only 5000 years old or that we shouldn’t teach about the Holocaust or the history of slavery in America. Let’s set all that aside for a moment and think about your own job, whatever it is that you do day-to-day to earn a living, would you stay at a job that you’re underpaid, undervalued, and on occasion attacked by members of the community?


I sure as hell would never considering working in that type of environment.


I just want to say thank you for all you do. You are appreciated. My mom was a teacher and I saw the burnout firsthand. I’m sorry all of this is happening.


I get that parents want to know what’s going into their kids mind, but they should be taking all that up with the school board, not directly arguing with teachers.


If someone has a problem with history or science... maybe public school isnt for them


Personally I don't think that people who barely passed HS should be having opinions on education curriculums


If they don't agree then they should pull their kids and homeschool them, we shouldn't be banning books and ignoring history because a few loud mouths think their opinions count more than facts.


And sadly those flat earther parents are now taking over school boards


Or better yet foster a relationship with said kid where they voluntarily tell you. Kids are open books when they truly feel safe and loved. Communication is a really good parenting tool.


Been in the restaurant business since I was 13. 2004 was the last time I was a server. The amount of wealthy douchebags I dealt with daily made me feel like crap, the money is better serving, but, I’ve got no patience for it anymore. I’ve been in the kitchen ever since. Underpaid, undervalued, no benefits and the public absolutely treats restaurant employees like trash. I could never be a teacher, it’s such an important job too. It’s a disgrace that teachers are not paid well enough for everything they do. Add in the culture war Christofascist bullshit and I don’t blame teachers for leaving their profession. Seems to me like the maga people and their politicians are intentionally destroying public education. They’ve said it openly. They want their religious beliefs taught in schools, along with their version of history as to truly indoctrinate children. They want an obedient, non critical thinking population. You don’t get that with quality public education, so they’re trying to destroy it. The book banning and attacks on public libraries must be paid more attention to. We need to stop this. It’s very dangerous what theocracy does and authoritarian governments are terrible


Not arguing against you, but the "low respect" from non-teachers bugs me a bit. I'm not a teacher and I do work in schools. I have been threatened by teachers and their union reps for just doing my job. I've been belittled, berated, and followed home by their union reps. I've also been called worthless and pointless in front of families and students by their teachers. Guess what? The Families and Administrators do the same to us as well. I'm an IT guy. I'm here to make life in the classroom easier and all I get is my head ripped off by teachers and their union reps on the daily. As far as I'm concerned, NO ONE is innocent in Public Education. I don't feel any worse for teachers than I do for my fellow support staffers. It's all one big pile of suck.


Why would union reps be harassing you? Can you elaborate a bit?


Usually for decisions made above me. At least around here, teachers contact them with their issues, and the reps then contact those "responsible" and typically just attack them. 1. Grading Notifications- More than 50% of our teachers didn't have their grades in on time for the 1st quarter. (grades are not posted to families until 2 weeks after the end of the quarter but are due the day after the end of the quarter.) Admins decided they wanted a notification sent out to teachers the morning grades were due, for those who still have not submitted grades. I got a call from the union rep after it was sent out screaming at me "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE??? How dare you tell them how to blah blah blah". After that, the UP called and said if another notification gets sent out that I'd "Regret it". When I told my boss (admin) he just shrugged and said "Good Luck". 2. Attendance Update - In the middle of the year the MS decided they wanted to collect attendance differently, but the system we use doesn't allow for that once the year has started. I was called stupid, inexperienced, and worthless at my job by one of the MS principals. In return, the district spent \~50k working with vendors to make this happen, and it ultimately put the burden on the teachers to take attendance every period (previous to only Homeroom). The teachers then thought it was appropriate to email me and leave me voice mails letting me know what they thought of me and "MY" new attendance policy. 3 weeks in, the MS principal called and said they didn't like it and wanted to go back to the initial way. The teacher's hatemail continued and the families then started. 3. New Student Information System - The administration decided to go with a new system, not anything I had a say in, if I did, we wouldn't have gone with the product we have. As with anything new, it needs to be learned. Admins, Teachers, and Parents alike, typically don't like their routines shaken up, and oddly enough, most of them don't like learning anything new. So when the new system came into play, everyone panicked, got frustrated, and take it out on others. I was one of the trainers for the new system, and one of the teachers who had been teaching for 20+ years thought it would be appropriate to follow me home and threaten me that I was ruining his remaining teaching years and that he wanted to "teach me a lesson" (I don't know if he was trying to be Punny, but I chuckle about it still.) There was, of course, tons of sarcastic hatemail as well. I've worked in other districts where the teachers aren't as bad, but the admins were worse. Or the board was crazy. So generally, when I say it's all one big pile of suck, I truly mean it's all one BIG pile of SUCK. I've met plenty of great teachers, admins, and staffers along the way, but the bad far outweighs the good sadly.


I wasn't sure how to respond to this as I have done both. I'm old enough to remember when school IT wasn't a thing. I would suggest a couple of things. First, IT can be a black box to those not in IT, and then IT gets defensive and closes ranks and so appears aloof. I've watched as IT people get skewered for decisions above them because they get caught up in "their" systems. 1. Don't take responsibility for decisions that are not yours. Why would you send out an email about grades? Let the principal handle that discussion. Grades are due soon after the quarter is done is a personal peeve of mine, especially when we want to give students "grace" and allow them to hand in assignments until the end of the quarter. I would be a bit prickly as well if it looked like IT was making decisions about teaching. 2. I would constantly remind people that it isn't "my" system. It all belongs to the school and the decisions are made far above me. Same with training, I would let people vent and then tell them "I'm just the messenger/trainer, I have absolutely nothing to do with the decision making". I had no problem explaining who made the decisions about systems and who to call. 3. We would make big decisions about student systems by committee. We would bring in stake holders to "help" with the decision but it was often just so people could see the choice is often the best of bad choices. I've seen plenty of IT people in schools canned over time because they were defensive about decisions they had nothing to do with but somehow felt attacked or responsible.


I appreciate the advice, but most of it isn't very applicable to my situation. You are assuming everyone is playing fair, and that irrationally frustrated people would take the time to listen to anything I had to say. The reality of my situation is that most people in my district are in the same cycle of BS that I'm in, but choose to take it out on other people. I just do my job and collect a paycheck. But to fill in some information: 1. My boss tasked me as I am the support rep for that system. It's an automated email from the system, but since I'm the support person, the teachers thought I did it. Also, I dunno what you did in K12, but refusing assignments doesn't end very well for support staffers. 2. I do, but they can't yell at the Superintendent, or a director, or their Principal for that matter. But they can yell at me and boy do they like to. It also doesn't help when the administration takes no responsibility for those decisions and just directs the buildings for any issues to contact me. Teachers/Admins will always believe other Admins/Teachers over me, even when I provide evidence. For example, during the pandemic, one of the buildings decided to separate the kids into teams. They chose the school colors to represent the teams. Innocent right? Not when your school colors are White and Black. The "White Team" and the "Black Team". Let me tell you how well that went over with the families. I got a call from the AssSuper screaming at me about racism because that building's AP (who set it up) claimed ignorance and said it must have been me. I even showed them the log that the AP changed it and I still got formally reprimanded about it. 0.o 3. The decision, in this case, was our Super, Assistant Super, All Principals, and the IT Director. None of which are what you would call "well-versed" users in the system. So a team of people who never used the old system decided what new system they were also never going to use. I wish they would have included SMEs or some experienced stakeholders. I leave my work at work. Sometimes work chooses to follow you home. I remember at the time thinking, "How stupid are you that you are willing to throw away your career for this? This is the guy teaching kids..." The joke was on me, he didn't get in trouble when I reported it to my boss. I should have called the police TBH but I just thought it was so silly at the time.


My guess would be implementing things on behalf of the administration that violate established contracts.


I doubt this is the underlying issue as it’s not just teachers who are the only ones experiencing these issues. These kinds of kids treat EVERYONE that they deem to get in the way of their wants this way. Each other, parents, retail workers, coworkers, other modernists (if driving, lowest generation of drivers licenses issued), people online, other pedestrians (physically become a road block just because). It the general lack of respect for others and self entitlement. They have completely bought into the idea that they are gods and everyone should be worshipping them. Not to harp on social media but it seems to cause a positive feedback loop and an echo chamber that they are the center of the universe and anyone who infringes on this is to be treat less than and to hate with all their might. And if politics are to be dragged into this arena (while not explicit, it was implied by your comment) I’ll add my perspective as a retail worker. The rude and easily agitated customers (not just towards me but fellow customers) are those from all backgrounds however the primarily culprits are those belonging to the younger end (around 12–20 years old). Of those believe it or not, the most troublesome are those actively displaying more liberal views (particular buttons, pins, make up, tattoos, shirts, keychains, backpacks, vocalizing make it clear). Also these kids are more often not accompanied by an adult than their counterparts. They’re usually too sucked into putting on a show for attention to be effectively helped. That or so enthralled in their phones that they treat employees like kiosks boards and fellow customers like automatic doors. Just want to say to them, “No sweetheart, you need to at least let me know how you are paying because unless it’s cash I really don’t know what kind of plastic you’re using (gift card, credit/debt, tap). No that isn’t on sale. Getting in my personal space and raising you voice at me isn’t going to change that nor help solve if our signage is incorrect and we can honor it. And no those customers don’t need to move they’re still paying and gathering their items. You need to wait. No you both need to yield. Physics doesn’t care about your pride.” Not saying I haven’t seen my share old fuddy-duddies or excessive conservatives (older lady blaring a podcast throughout the whole store and at checkout but still wanting to be helped) but that age range, 12-20, is by far the most difficult and volatile to help/assist. You don’t know what’s going to set them off. Those over 20 years old are fairly predictable and reasonable. Different motivators I guess.


The dirty secret is many parents suck. They don’t teach their kids social skills or responsibility and send them to school without any of the intangibles needed to succeed. Then they blame everyone at the school for their child not doing their school work. If that’s not enough, so many parents have passed off their jobs onto teachers. Schools now have to transport kids, give breakfast and lunch, teach kids about the birds and bees, teach kids how to drive, teach social skills such as hygiene, and increasingly provide kids with the necessaries of life. My school gives clothes, soap, toothpaste, notebooks, pens, etc. to students. It also has a food pantry where families can get a full and free grocery order each week. Exactly what are parents doing?


It’s not a dirty secret. We all know tons of parents are idiot busybodies.


There's a whole lot there to break down there, part is parents not parenting but another big piece is the constantly growing economic disparity.


exactly. parents aren't parenting because they're often too busy working. we've hit a point where there are literally never enough hours in the day to earn a living and raise a family. it's a huge part of why a lot of people my age (myself included) won't have kids- we know WE weren't raised enough, we were the latchkey kids. And we have even less spare time and wealth than our parents, so how the heck can we ever find the time to raise anyone?? but like, what do we tell people then? don't have kids? poor people shouldn't have them, only rich people? the reality is our society is violently cut-throat, it's antisociality made law, and it's slowly burning us all out. teachers need parents to be supported, so those parents can then support their kids, and in doing so they help support teachers. but instead of helping people, our country just demands perfection of us all and punishes us when we inevitably fail. it's pure bs


I thought school buses were an old concept, are you saying this is a new thing?


I am saying that over time parents have shifted more and more of their responsibilities onto schools.


It’s not new. But it has expanded and it’s hella expensive. Boston spends well over 100 mil per year on school transport. I’m not saying it’s bad or needs to be curtailed but it is something to consider


That's interesting, I figured it would be the opposite. I always see lines of SUVs wrapped around schools, dropping off one kid at a time. And I just think "does nobody ride the bus anymore??"


Yet we have districts with no buses and massive issues with attendance. I don’t think school buses are an issue here.


The parents are zoned out on Instagram or fox news.


Looking for new spouses, working 2 jobs, ON THEIR PHONES


My ex worked in Philadelphia public schools for a few years before COVID hit, then she taught through COVID as well. All told I think she had maybe 3-4 years with SDP. Kids could threaten teachers, get in fights, do the weirdest and cruelest stuff you can think of — the worst “punishment” given was to go home early for the day. Come right back tomorrow and the same kids would be doing the same nonsense. I remember asking redditors on r/teachers “Hey what can I do for my partner who is a new public school teacher?” and the first reply was something like “Get her into therapy ASAP” because of how we treat teachers. By “we” I mean politicians, parents, admins, school board members, and students. We expect teachers to be responsible for so much, but we give them fewer and fewer resources each year.


Can’t imagine why. Who doesn’t want ignorant parents incessantly telling them how to do their underpaid jobs while having to buy their own supplies with their own money.


This sucks. But it’s exactly what Christian conservatives want, an end to secular public schools to force “school choice” using taxpayer funds for Christian indoctrination camps. We need to push back and end their undermining of public education and the teachers who sacrifice for it. https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-kirk-launches-turning-point-academy-combat-woke-curriculum-1714091?amp=1


I’m a middle school teacher. Their desired end result is exactly why I’m not leaving. I’m not going to just let the likes of the DeVos family, the Koch Foundation, and Jeffrey Yass scare me out of teaching and take over my classroom. I won’t let them win by chasing away an ally to my students, and I’ll be DAMNED if they force me out of my mission to bring education to underserved populations in the city. Not only that, I hate to lose.


First of all, your username rules. I am in the same boat. I'm not letting them scare me off. Stay strong. My middle schoolers are scarier than these bullies any day, and I say that with love.


Thank you


You’re a fucking hero.


Thank you!


Exactly! Public education is a wonderful thing that everyone is entitled to and the Republican and Christian wingnuts want to destabilize and dismantle the entire system. They have infiltrated the system starting at the local level which includes school boards. How do more people not see this is happening?


Big city school have been Dem controlled for years and failing. Public education has had people in charge not doing their jobs and getting paid boatloads while school children suffer. R's and D's have fucked this situation up enough for so long the consequences are now showing at an exponential rate.


Hmm, No Child Left Behind was a complete fail enacted by the GOP. Made the funding even more inequitable because it was based solely on standardized tests. Took focus and money away from languages, arts… everything but the basics. Though I agree to the extent that funding for every school should be much more equal. Democrats aren’t perfect, but it gets old this argument they both R and D are on equal footing in terms of suckage. Not even by an inch.


No child left behind was voted on and won the majority of both sides. Yes, pushed by GOP, signed off by GOP but many Dems signed off on it as well. "The Act garnered bipartisan support in both chambers of the legislature, and it was passed in the United States House of Representatives on December 13, 2001 (voting 381–41), in the United States Senate on December 18, 2001 (voting 87–10)." They are on equal footage of sucking. Until you realize that you'll keep seeing the same results.


Exactly. I got downvoted for saying the exact same thing. Everyone thinks the other side is the problem when in reality both sides are doing a terrible job with education. The lack of discipline and repercussions comes from the left, not the right. The lack of pay and support comes from the right.


Around here there are Christian schools. Why not send your little Christians there where they can be indoctrinated just as you like?


because eventually if the GOP has their way public funds will pay for it. So you keep your kids in the public schools to help tear them down.


If you think people are keeping their kids in shit schools "to help tear them down" you are out of your mind.


Nobody gives a shit what conspiracy posters think. Take your dumbass insults and go the fuck away.


I'm a conspiracy poster while you think parents are keeping their kids in shitty schools on purpose to destroy the schools. That's some serious brainwashing.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/2023/christian-home-schoolers-revolt/ The Christian home school movement have been backfiring recently


https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/2023/christian-home-schoolers-revolt/ The Christian home school movement have been backfiring recently


All intentional imo. Degrade and erode the entire system, then move to privatized education.


100% this. There is massive profit to be had by privatization of the public school system.


And it's a lot easier to control people if they're not educated or capable of critical thought.


Absolutely. I’m in iowa, and they recently approved the school voucher system, so students can take public funds to unregulated private schools. They are also removing the financial literacy requirement for high schoolers, where critical money management skills are taught. Better to keep people poor and uneducated to secure a working class, just like the slave owners did.


So changing the pension calculation, making healthcare more unaffordable, increasing mandates, and not keeping wages up with inflation has consequences? Go figure.


I’d want to get tf out of Dodge too if I were them. The culture wars have destroyed the allure of working in education.


My cousin is a teacher in NEPA and was at a school board meeting where a parent told the school board that they didn't want their child learning about President Obama... It's bad out there. I don't blame anyone who leaves. I hope they all find more satisfying careers elsewhere.


What? How did that parent even justify that?


They didn't justify it, just said it. That's what bigots do.


Come on… you have to name drop the school… I’m from NEPA also. I’m not surprised at this also.


I'm Originally from NEPA ( attended GNA, class of 92). Unfortunately, I'm not surprised in the least, seeing more than a few friends from back home. My older brother who still lives back there, is right when he says the valley is like 20-25 years behind the times.


The most important profession in the world reduced to babysitting in a war zone, any idiot off the street has unilateral veto power over your entire lesson plan or any part of it, the pay is shit and you'll have to plow some of it back into the classroom because you're already underfunded and your funding has become a political target. I wonder why people don't want to do the job...


It’s because I make more bartending then my cousin does teaching in Luzerne county. It’s also because parents have gone insane over the last two decades, and now blame teachers for any issue that arrises.


Went through school at in PA, a long ( really long ) time ago. Teachers were respected in the community, by the school board and wow certainly by students. Also parents. It was still ' ok ' when my kids went through albeit slipping. 20 year span, by the last kid we were seeing the beginning of the mess- which has now snowballed. Four teachers in my immediate family. Two took early retirement, two others who could have had decades of the career ahead of them transitioned to different jobs. We're northern Dauphin, above Harrisburg.


My youngest is in the Upper Moreland school district. Seems OK so far. Entering high school in September. I graduated from the same school in the 90's. Used to be a top choice around here, doesn't seem like it anymore. But up the road is Central Bucks...making national news. Crazy.


In my household we have no children so take my opinion for what it's worth. After talking with friends and family that do have children, I have all the sympathy in the world for teachers and do not blame them at all for leaving their profession. I find it shocking how many parents admittedly micromanage every aspect of their child's education while in the school, making the teacher's life a living hell, and then do not give two shits what that same child does after school. The administration backs-up the intolerable parents and places all the blame on the teachers. Parents need to start addressing the behavioral/entitlement issues of their children instead of blaming the entire world. That's the end of my observational rant!


Pay teachers good salaries and things will change. 40k net pay after taxes would be the out of college starting salary if we expect to attract and keep dedicated individuals. More like 70k in large urban cities like Philly. Yea dumbasses, career teachers should be making six figures after 20 years in. In PA my buddy got his first teaching job in 2014 and his starting salary was 31k gross. After taxes thats pathetic starvation money for a college educated profession. Less than 2k per month cash in pocket? Better sell weed for that income. But dont worry its been 10 years he now makes like 45k gross so you know, same as my cousin who is a roofer and didnt graduate high school.


All the teachers I know in PA make around 50k out of school. Most are around 65k now, 3-5 years later and have had their master degrees paid for. Not that bad imo, considering they get 2.5 months off a year + pto and sick days. Pay, from what I've seen, has gotten a lot better.


The pay seems alright on paper, but from my experience, it's still not nearly enough to outweigh the numerous and extreme negatives. Not to mention, support staff are way, way underpaid. I moved here from KS and started subbing (I have a degree, but not in education specifically, so I have a provisional teaching license). I was paid $130/day, regardless of if I worked extra hours (which I did, every single day because I loved those kids). I was supposed to be paid for 7.5 hours of work, but realistically, it was more like 9. I'd go in every day to get cursed at, disrespected, mocked, screamed at, and have stuff thrown at me. I had to break up more fights than I can count, usually several per day. And I had to spend extra time writing up notes for the teacher I was filling in for, as well as writing up any incident reports. The kids also have tablets from the school, and you can imagine all the issues that come with them having near-constant access to screens and internet. They were constantly looking up inappropriate stuff, like adult content and weapons, etc. If I took away the iPad, their behavior became much worse, often violent. I tried to teach, and there were a couple good days in there. But good days mostly just meant "no violent events occurred." I worked at an elementary school, by the way. All that shit, for $130/day, no benefits. Children—young kids, 5 to 11 years old—with no boundaries, no routines, no concept of consent; children who are by and large dealing with extreme addiction who don't even know any different. I tried to stick it out until the end of the year, but at a point, it's not worth coming home and sobbing my night away just to go and do it again for pay that doesn't even cover my rent. I still feel guilty for leaving.


Really depends where you live and property taxes. Harrisburg urban: $40,000 starting, $8000 more for masters. Philly suburbs: $60,000 starting.


Definitely depends. Teachers in the wealthier school districts in York County max out around 90,000 once they’ve maxed out their graduate credits. My cousin teaches in that county and was already making high 80’s in her late 20’s. However, I’ve also heard the pay in York City schools is paltry.


Huge shock teachers want to actually educate children and not manufacture obedient bigots.


My wife is a professor of elementary literacy at a teaching college in NYS. Their is an enrollment problem and she doesn’t blame the students. Shits hard for a teacher for all the reasons mentioned.


Please tell me she explicitly teaches her students HOW to teach children to read?? I have a Masters in Reading and work as a reading specialist. No one ever taught me HOW to teach reading. College for my undergrad (Clarion) and masters (Slippery Rock) were all about comprehension, behavior management, and vocabulary. I have had to teach myself a lot about phonics rules and best literacy practices. It’s insane that I spent 6 years and tens of thousands of dollars to teach myself outside of college 🙄.


Ah, yes, I’ve heard that. She has explained this too many people when they ask what she does. She is heavily into and focused on teaching her students phonemic awareness and other literacy practices. As someone not in education it’s a bit mind boggling to learn about our learning process for something that I now take for granted and do daily (reading).


Not sure why I got downvoted for that as it was a genuine question. Colleges are not doing well preparing teachers in literacy instruction. I am SO glad to hear your wife is!! We need more professors like her at the collegiate level so that new teachers don’t find themselves as unprepared as I was!


Gee, it's almost like we treat teachers like shit, pay them like shit, and restrict them into the ground.




My teacher ed program told us how my state is rolling out new standards around computer and tech soon. My one professor essentially intimated it’s going to be a massive flop. Anyone qualified to teach this stuff can make 3x the money working in industry. Add on the soul crushing daily bullshit f teaching to a 66% reduction in salary…can’t wait to see how many applicants they’ll get beating down the doors of the school.


As school boards more and more get taken over by right wing nut jobs, this is no suprise.


Not only party affiliation, but just sheer ignorance of school districts that fail to acknowledge that the state has been decreasing in population for decades with no end in sight. My home school district in NWPA has been trying to consolidate for years and has been met with backlash from communities fearing it’ll further ruin their local economies, etc, which has resulted in fewer and fewer education opportunities for students in rural schools.


My HS Alma mater talked about consolidating schools. People who don't even have kids in the district were asking how it would affect sports. It's asinine.


Once again, the adults are ruining shit for the kids.


The republicans* are ruining shit for everyone. Ftfy




Forget just going to the polls in this case..... board meetings are where stuff is being decided these days. You have right wingers showing up, causing a scene until the board says, "ok we wont teach that" and calling it a day


I don't know about ' more and more '. Ours has *always* been composed of right wing nut jobs. Ok, amending that to corrupt right wing nut jobs. Seriously. This place is *wild* . Laying huge, HUGE blame across the board on State Department of Ed. Why? Districts are gifted crazy amounts of power *and* ( as a bonus ) sovereign immunity. State response to ALL the shambles now so outta hand we're losing teachers is ' shrug '. " File a complaint ". Weirdly, one of the single worst district I've ever seen has historically kept absolutely amazing teachers. And now they're going.


I blame the fact that school board elections are on off years. Very few people are planning on voting this Fall. Turnout will be roughly ten percent. That makes it very easy for a small amount of ideological radicals to take control.


Don’t kid yourself. The left wing school boards suck too. The right wing boards offer zero help. The left wing offers zero accountability. Pick your poison.


>both sides suck Found the right winger


Fuck those left wing districts providing kids with free breakfast and not leaving them hungry. Damn left wingers trying to provide an environment where kids can learn the best way for them instead of telling the kids that you have to learn this way and this information only.




I don't think anything will change until there is a nationwide strike of all educators demanding an end to all this bullshit.


The article claiming that the collapse of the recruiting process is the cause of the teacher exodus is hilarious.


Have they tried paying them?


Underpaid, it's hard to believe that actor's, professional athletes, professional musicians, are multi millionaires, but we pay teacher's, police and fire, nurses,etc. less than 6 figures without overtime. My daughter teaches, has to deal with bad administration, and horrendous parents who don't take any interest in their child's education, don't respond to her calls at all, and blame the teacher and if they do respond, they are verbally abusive .


Very, very few artists of any kind make six figures, let alone millions.


Republicans don’t want public education. They want it scrapped for a student debt policy like Universities. You get “school choice”, but your parents take out a student loan for 10-30k per year. It keeps adults in perpetual debt by attempting to pay off their student loans, while taking out more on the kid while having a mortgage. Yet, salaries have no risen in over 10 years.


Who would have thought. You basically need a Masters degree to teach in PA, and you start at what like $45k, and max out at <$100k Go into Business or Tech/STEM, and you can easily be making 2x or 3x with just a Bachelors, and end up making several hundred thousand a year by the time you retire.


>Over the past two years, schools saw relatively modest changes in attrition even as teachers reported more dissatisfaction with the job amid the travails of the COVID-19 pandemic, growing workloads, shrinking autonomy and increasingly hostile school environments. >But now, labor markets are tight and it’s much easier for teachers to find jobs near where they live, Fuller said. Maybe we should make a federal law that ties the local Teachers Union to the local Police Union, and ties their salaries as well. If teachers were making what police make over time they would be staying. If teachers had the same protections that police have they would be staying. If police were treated like teachers they would be striking. If police had to strike when teachers strike, communities would be much much more likely to deal fairly with teachers.


My GF tried working as a sub and was only ever offered jobs in the most challenging schools. The behavioral issues are unbelievable, IEPs are plentiful but ignored, and entirely too much is expected of teachers, especially with the worsening teacher to student ratio. Parents are completely uninvolved and the younger children who suffered the most from the missed years of socialization bc of covid are practically feral. She was only a sub and left after 3 months but not before she saw three career teachers all leave the same school in the same period of time. I can't believe anyone could put up with what teachers have to go through now, even if they were actually paid reasonably (they aren't).


My mom is a HS teacher in a suburban school in NEPA and she was seriously considering retiring early just to be done with the bs. She's sticking it out (she's only got two years left), because she'd rather get her full benefits. But her argument against staying was hella compelling too.


I didn’t even make it out of undergrad before realizing it’s not worth it. I now work for a nonprofit making about the same as some of my classmates do but with about 1000% less stress while I try to get into a masters for my field


Well yeah, it's a fucking shitty job. Shitty parents, shitty pay, generally shitty admin, and now society at large is deciding they should have more of a say in how teachers teach. I'd get the fuck out too. People like to point to things like increasing inequality as the evidence of a slow-rolling collapse of society, but in my opinion, the complete debasement of the educational system and the teaching profession is as much to blame. Countries that consistently rank high on well-being measures, i.e. scandinavia and South Korea, treat their educators *very* well. Imagine that.


I teach in DE but also have a PA license: dual certified (spec Ed PreK-12, English 4-8/7–12) with a masters from a PA university in Ed leadership (principal and supervisor certs), another masters from UF in C&I with a reading Ed concentration…11 years of classroom experience, 3 as a teacher leader, 4 years as a CT for undergrad edu majors Have had 1 interview in a PA school district in the last 3 years. do they actually want to fill these positions?!


If you’re in a wealthy district making 6 figures, I can understand sticking around when you have 2-3 months off out of the year. Otherwise, it’s a shitty career. Super important, but under appreciated and underpaid. I don’t blame anyone for not wanting to teach anymore. Half of the students don’t wanna learn, and the parents of those kids don’t wanna admit that they raised a shitty kid. I love my city but I’m surprised anyone’s even willing to be a teacher in Philadelphia anymore.


I left after 2 years. Realized I could make twice as much money doing something 4 times less stressful. I miss the kids but I like my life now


Who is funding these extremist abilities to spend so much time going around to districts they don't even live in to force their beliefs? Public education has been under attack by private institutions for a while. We spend $11,500 per student at pseudo private charter schools. Meanwhile we spend $4500 per student at REAL public schools. They're killing public education.


Its the Conservatives who have been at war with our education system since Trump took office and it should have been very apparent by Betsy DeVos' appointment to Secretary of Education. They attack it at every turn, yet fail to provide solutions. Who on Earth would want to be in a school all day knowing that what you're trying to teach could end up on Fox News or someone comes in with a gun because "MaH 2a RiGhTs".


Been at it for 12 years. I love it and hate it. Love what the job is supposed to be, hate how it's become.


My university here in PA has a shortage of professors, one guy teaching 5* classes a semester, it’s like that in a couple program departments


Shitty pay and no support from administration, plus you can not fail anyone. Everybody must pass even if the don’t do the work and or threaten you.


Everywhere this is happening.


My fiancé is an ex teacher and she knows so many that are leaving. The federal government does not care about public education. Not one bit.


I don’t blame them, OnlyFans models are pulling 6 figures and driving Lamborghinis.


Meanwhile, Pittsburgh Public Schools is anticipating teacher furloughs this summer.


Low wages and no respect. What do you think is going to happen?


I don’t blame them one bit. Soon no teachers will be available and the new education system would be online home schooling.


Teachers should be paid as much as cops and their pensions/benefits should be as good.


The PA district I graduated from was too busy "allegedly" (in quotes but I am in therapy in part due to what I've seen there so I'll let you all connect the dots) having sex with minors and hitting on staff (principal sent sexually explicit messages to our one business administrator who was married with kids... And he was... His son and her daughter were in my grad class) and putting all money to football to actually teach. I understand teachers get the short end of the stick (I have family in schools and I have done shadowing with teachers and counselors), but the problem is sometimes the adults in place made the culture and district too toxic to be a proper educational resource.


I was on the path to become a teacher. I only got as far as observing high school classrooms whilst finishing my degree before I turned the fuck around. I could already see that it wasn’t for me. Low pay, petty politics and constant abuse from both the kids and upper administration. You’re taking it from both ends. It’s really scary that we’re draining our public education systems at such an alarming rate.


I am not surprised at the response from teachers, but I am shocked at the thought the far right conservatives are okay with this. Surely they don't want me to teach my own child cause that curriculum is going to be why Nazis are bad. Why "the American dream" was 1950s post WWII propaganda and how her reproduction system works so she doesn't get trapped in a relationship.


I have a master's to teach from Drexel. I am a social worker right now. This tracks.


Good. I left Pennsylvania in a hurry too, and my only regret is that I didn't leave sooner.


Give people the option to opt out of public schools and take their school taxes with them. Then they can fund a school that will teach their children whatever values they believe in. Voila, no more problematic parents and administrators for teachers in the public system. Everyone there can be one big happy feedback loop and agree with each other


yeah, except then the kids that don't need a lot of resources will leave and leave the public schools even more underfunded, taking care of a lot of kids that need a lot of help. It's already called charter schools, which already do this.


You could solve that by having a funding formula that takes most common IEP reasons into account. There is a charter school near me for autistic students only and I know of at least one kid who the public school district is paying over $100k/year to attend charter because it's still cheaper than them doing it.


Are you sure it's a charter? Most likely that's an approved private school. A lot of them specialize in behavioral health or developmental disabilities for asd. School districts pay tuition to send kids there. Charters are considered public schools so other public schools wouldn't pay charters.


How would the public school system be underfunded if each student that leaves only takes out the money the school would receive to pay for that student’s education? It should break even, right? Especially if that money pays their tuition in a private school. Sounds like the problem isn’t the lack of funding, it’s gross mismanagement and inefficiency in the public school system. You don’t fix that by giving it even more money to waste.


the $ isn't prorated. Every kid gets the same amount. most kids use less $ than the taxes pay for, a small number use a lot more. And it evens out. When the kids who don't need serviecs leave to charters, that $ goes with them, and the charters keep it, and the the public schools have far less money to take care of the high service needing kids.


Aren’t they all in school the same amount of time every day? Same curriculum? Teacher pay is fairly standardized, ect. Outside of some being bussed further than others and being involved in extra curricular activities, costs should be about the same per student.


kids with ieps have lots of extra services, classroom aides, etc.etc. they can cost a lot more. charters take the well kids and then don't need to hire the specialists or can just get away with just a few hours a week.


Sounds like a good argument for getting rid of the school system’s “one size fits all” approach to education. It obviously doesn’t work. From it’s inability to appease every parent’s expectations (Remember those problem, assholish parents?) to inability to meet the requirements of special needs students.


This is going to open up a lot of opportunities for pedophiles.


Yup. Kill public schools and funnel them right into the Catholic schools. No pedophiles there at all.


You seem happy about that


The Republicans are already taking control of school boards.


Yup, and they get right to work. [https://brutalsouth.substack.com/p/notes-from-a-school-board-takeover](https://brutalsouth.substack.com/p/notes-from-a-school-board-takeover)


I had a conversation with a lawyer for the pa teachers union where they argued very sincerely that parents should have no say in their childs education.


Show me which districts, obvious why.


I'd say show us which ones are *not* . Out of the 8 or so teeny districts around here ONE has been trying to hold out, making what seem obvious if increasingly futile efforts to maintain *school* as a place of education.


Do some research