T O P
iamsupaman

SRS league start :)


BellacosePlayer

If either SRS or Trickster Soulrend is good/decent I might actually get to use my Bee/Kitty MTX.


frstone2survive

Any tips for soul rend? Haven't played it since it's release..always feels underwhelming vs the safety of ED+bane for ST. I love DoT builds but can never get it to work in a way that feels good.


Mihetsu

get unholy amounts of cast speed


Still_Same_Exile

Don’t do it, 23% to a spell that was already not great when the game was way easier and doesnt boss well is a big noob trap. Also, my biggest grievance with it was the ungodly mana cost


frstone2survive

The mana cost is insane for a less then 1 second Dot


Wendigo120

> Trickster Soulrend I wouldn't plan on anything trickster until we have some idea of what the rework actually is.


fl4nnel

Ignite popcorn SRS might be looking mighty juicy.


TheHappyEater

With or without MI? Necro or Guardian?


tobsecret

I'm wondering if any of the underplayed golems will be viable now for single target. Lightning golem gets 250% damage effectiveness on its default attack, so I could see us using Lightning golem with added cold and awakened added lightning supports in a Shroud of the Lightless for lvl 25 elemental penetration. Elementalist gets -25% exposure, so with Hydrosphere we could get -35%. My guess is this won't be a strong build, and even if it is, you'd probably need to gem swap in chain for mapping. Generally Golementalist builds got a buff bc you can now get +2 to all minion skill gems on helmets (this obviously excludes Maw of Mischief and other builds that have a mandatory helmet unique). I might try to league start Flame Golem Elementalist? It's a real bummer because I was finally ready to go with my comfort pick of phys skelly necro again after playing a new league starter every league for the last 5 leagues, but at least I am used to the uncertainty now I guess. ​ Maw of Mischief Stone Golem elementalist was already strong last league and it looks like it got a buff (more minion life but lost a bunch of increased minion life), though we will have to wait for the full patch notes to see just how many sources of minion life we will lose on the tree. The new rings will likely have life on them as well, and even prior to this league, minion life was only one of the ways to scale damage on the build, so if it becomes slightly easier or harder it will mostly just result in a change in where the gear pressure is applied (i.e. burning/elemental/fire damage/ damage over time/ fire damage over time/ minion damage, minion life, ignite speed, dot multi/fire dot multi).


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hesh582

The change makes added lightning damage (non-awakened, level 21) go from providing 12% more base damage to 30% more base damage in your scenario. It's a dramatic change. Regular added ele damage becomes comparable to typical more multi gems, and awakened added ele becomes a *very* above average link. Now, will that be enough to get people to play lightning golems? Eh.


Takahashi_Raya

I mean flame golems can already kill uber elder on barely any gear at all those effectiveness mods would massively improve this.


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Takahashi_Raya

you can very easily fix abyss jewels on a golem build lol.


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tobsecret

About what I expected yeah - we'll just have to see. They also said they rebalanced ghastly eye jewels so we shall see.


deviant324

I’m not a big minion player and might be gated by being an SSF player on the shroud (literally never had that thing drop in over 2k hours), but I saw the changes to lightning golem and thought I might give that one a try as a league start. I like unconventional stuff and definitely had to quit on a league starter in more than half of my previous leagues because I went a bit too ambitious with just winging stuff I’ve never tried out or PoBed before, but I might be willing to give this one a try.


tobsecret

This is all just spitballing anyways - we'll have to PoB stuff see how it looks with what info we have and then we can decide how likely it will be reasonable for league start. I am playing SSF as well, but I think Golem Elementalist is a pretty decent starter either way. The most sensible thing would likely be to start Carrion Golem Elementalist though like most minion builds that will be hit hard by the frenzy and power charge nerfs.


iFeedz

Looks fine to me, gives me an excuse to play Guardian instead.


HRNK

Yeah, with the buff to holy relic I need to find a good cyclone-holy relic guardian build now.


mrteapoon

[Moosseolini's Holy Relics Guardian](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2717739)


HRNK

Thanks!


gramineous

Broke: Cyclone summoner player stumbling about with 30% less movespeed Woke: Flicker Strike Holy Relic


asuikoori

Unfortunately its hardly a buff to holy relic, its only buffing added damage, which most holy relic builds get next to 0 added minion damage. Especially since there's just not a lot of ways to get added damage for minions.


Ulthwithian

On this note, we do need to wait and see what the minion mods on bone rings and the wands/shields will be. It's very possible that flat added damage to minions will be in the mix, which would work very well with the added damage effectiveness that they have increased on several minions.


ploki122

Personally, this is the one build I can see making use of those new affixes. Holy Relic Guardians didn't really run Necro Aegis, so the offhand stats are relevant, and weren't nearly as socket-starved as regular necros, making the loss of unset rings not crippling.


famousguysbrother

They detailed in the manifesto that they're adding a lot of ways for people to get minion stats on their items


BellacosePlayer

I'm guessing that certain skills getting a healthy chunk of added effect means that one of the new minion items will have a base damage mod.


hesh582

> which most holy relic builds get next to 0 added minion damage before, yes. It might be a lot more viable now, though.


wangofjenus

My thoughts are that I will play popcorn SRS into Flame Golems (Elementalist) and abuse their new crazy damage effectiveness and shotgun potential.


Bushido_Plan

I don't mind the nerfs and I like the SRS change. Always been a fan of attack based SRS compared to popcorn SRS. Might do it as a league starter and depending on how things go might take it all the way to uber pinnacles. The mana change hurts but Unleash has always been good for SRS.


frstone2survive

So I haven't played minions in like 10 leagues. What changes helped srs with the nerf to necro?


Relevant_View8038

Well the nerf to necro isn't as bad as the world is acting. Srs got a huge buff via both its actual listed buff as well as the removal of the minion ailment penalty which for ignite is a 3.5x buff We also have no idea what the new low level convoking wand bone ring and shields mods will look like. Unholy might is actually really good for dealing with ailments (double damage just straight up) The plus 2 to all minion support gems mod for helm gives phantasms (a common support for srs) a nice boost as well.


Andrey-d

>Unholy might is actually really good for dealing with ailments (double damage just straight up) What?


Noobkaka

Withering touch support + unholy might = 50% of Phys as extra chaos


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Noobkaka

Sorry nevermind. Also just remembered the support doesn't work with spells anymore.


Starbuckz42

>Srs got a huge buff via both its actual listed buff as well as theremoval of the minion ailment penalty which for ignite is a 3.5x buff You will have to decide for hit based damage or ailment, you won't get anything done trying to do both. That being said, the numerical buff barely makes up for the nerfs and considering SRS wasn't in a great state before nothing is gonna change about that. >We also have no idea what the new low level convoking wand bone ring and shields mods will look like. Irrelevant, you won't see +level on rings (also losing sockets from unset isn't great either, though we might gain the slots from dropping spectres), we already have wand mods so that only leaves shield which will have minion damage (equivalent to elemental) and +1 minion skill gems. Also not too great because that would force you into using a shield, though that might be necessary now anyway considering the strongest SRS variant using triple offering and a staff got hit very, very hard. >Unholy might is actually really good for dealing with ailments (double damage just straight up) what >The plus 2 to all minion support gems mod for helm gives phantasms (a common support for srs) a nice boost as well. Assuming you can afford using a rare helmet but more importantly Phantasms?! Are you sure you have played SRS before?


Takahashi_Raya

The sockets on unset are irrelevant we are going to loose 1 aura anyway due to reservatio nchanges.


Mildan

Does "phys as extra chaos" also help with ignite?


Starbuckz42

no


ragnarokda

I have always thought +2 minion level passive was extremely boring but it's just so good not to consider when making minion builds. I always ended up gravitating towards minions that don't really care about gem levels like soulwrest, dervish, or spiders as a result. I still think unholy might by itself is almost as lame as gem levels but I like the direction.


Nemzirot

I like how the changes could affect HoAG: - More attack speed on gem - +2 level for all minion gems on helmet, so using it in a 6l body armour makes more sense now - Could now have possibly another scaling option with crit ? - More minion rolls on gear that hopefully isnt just increased minion damage / attack speed. - Summon phantasm and Herald of Purity buffed if there is room to use these - More options on Jugg


redrach

The mana reservation efficiency nerf will impact it significantly though. Also using Circle of Nostalgia rings means you can't use the new minion ring bases.


Nemzirot

Thats true but that affects every single build that isnt MoM Im not really a fan of using these rings anyways. I rather use rares with life and minion movement speed


Siddsastar

I've wanted to try HoAg for a while. Might be the league for it


dioxy186

HoAG guardian might be pretty spicy.


Marketfreshe

Herald of purity League


redrach

The mana reservation efficiency mastery removal is going to really hurt.


omegaura

Coming Calamity says hello?


redrach

Sure, but it would have been nice to put on a nice beefy body armor instead.


IceColdPorkSoda

Does the build use calamitous visions?


redrach

I don't think so. I used Dread Banner and Pride on mine.


Marketfreshe

Hmm, maybe yeah


Thor3nce

How does the new helm modifier change from +3 to socketed minion gems to +2 to all minion skill gems affect items like Soulwrest? Does this affect the level 20 summon phantasm trigger?


VastConfusion23

Soulwrest is not a gem, so no.


tobsecret

Additionally Soulwrest was often also using the Devouring Diadem, so the helmet slot was already taken.


WhyDoISuckAtW2

> Minions no longer have hidden penalties to Bleeding, Ignite, and Poison damage. Summon Reaper no longer has a hidden bonus to Bleeding damage that counteracted this penalty. As a result, minions now deal approximately twice as much Poison damage, three and a half times as much Ignite damage, and seven times as much Bleeding damage. Poison: likely not affected by nerfs with this 2x buff, and still good since there are no poison stack limits and minions hit fast and weak. Unholy Might is good but we lost Spirit Offering's added chaos. Ignite: you can only have 1 ignite on an enemy from minions so you need a big hit for this to be meaningful. Undying Grapplers can discharge but with a low charge limit you still likely won't have a lot of damage to go off of, even with cold to fire support. Goats have fireball. Not sure if there are many other big fire spells (or phys spells to convert to fire) on spectres to be good here. Reaper does have big hits, and you can get +phys as added fire on cluster jewels for minions. I think this has good potential; stack bleed/poison and ignite damage on reaper. Minion Instability should still be strong; we lost some max life in a few places but not 3.5x. Golems and HoP were top choices for huge ignites before and likely still good. Bleeding: Good for minions that physically hit, but you can only have 1 stack and chance to bleed is typically low or zero. Would be neat if some of the new mods on gear can increase this. Reaper is still bleed queen. Anime Guardian could potentially do some neat things with these damaging ailments thanks to gear he can wear but likely will be a supporter for your other minions still. > Spellslinger now grants Added Spell Damage equal to 60% of Damage of Equipped Wand at gem level 1 (previously 50%), up to 174% at gem level 20 (previously 100%) + > The regular Minion skill now has 180% Effectiveness of Added Damage (previously 100%), and the empowered version now has 130% (previously 100%). Spellsling Absolution PEW PEW?


Limp-Care69

I definitely want to look into some ailment minions hopefully AG bleed/poison/ignite will be playable.


Zylosio

How do you play bleed reaper efficiently when it comes to clear ? Playing him as deadeye maybe ? Bleed damage got omega buffed on him


Lolzor

Holly Relic's buff looks intriguing and it can even use the new Necromancer's node.


BegaKing

Holy relic guardian was an amazing leaguestarter. It just got even better. Patch notes barring major changes this will be my leaguestart


barcedude

can you point me towards a good guide?


-taromanius-

Would also love to see a good starter; I found this one, but it claims 3mil DPS, while I only see 500k per relic. What am I missing? https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2717739 €: Without Empower Lvl 4 the dps for this build is pretty mediocre all things considered; it IS really tanky, and it'll work, but I don't think this is the build I'd like to persue as a leaguestarter. Maybe I'll change my mind but 1.8mil DPS with as much gear as this guy has isn't all that great IMO.


Lolzor

That's the number for Uber bosses. For others it is about 3 mil. Here is a Necromancer version I found: https://www.poe-vault.com/guides/summon-holy-relic-necromancer-build-guide


-taromanius-

Oooh yeah PoB now supports Uber Boss DPS. I forgot about that, thanks a bunch!


Responsible-Pay-2389

what guide did you follow if any?


Gary_The_GooBoy

I'm late to the party, but Poison Skeletons looks insane so far. Like really, really insane. https://pastebin.com/zeUve9PN


Silas147

>https://pastebin.com/zeUve9PN I think you should remove a few levels from skelies gem and count for "roughly 30% lower in mid acts, roughly 20% lower at level 20 of the minion skill, and roughly 10% lower at level 30 of the minion skill"


Gary_The_GooBoy

We gain more damage from minions as we gear up, which I plan to do if I did this build. I think it's fair to have base Skeles until we see the mods.


wild_man_wizard

How do you get 60% chance for minions to poison on a wand?


Alhoon

It looks like a very heavy nerf to almost all minion builds. Just as an example, here's my before and after numbers for minion crit chance from Pob. Before: * Base Crit - 5% + 5% (Brittle) + 1.875% (Assassin's Mark) = 11.875% * Increased Crit - 600% (Power Charges) + 100% (Mastery) + 60% (2x Vicious Bite) = 760% * Total Crit - 11.875% * 8.6 ~= 102% = 100% After: * Base Crit - 5% + 2% (Brittle) + 1.875% (Assassin's Mark) = 8.875% * Increased Crit - 120% (Power Charges) + 100% (Fearsome Force, assumed) + 60% (2x Vicious Bite) = 280% * Total Crit - 8.875% * 3.8 ~= 33.7% Just ticking off Brittle and both charges (not changing anything else like Unnatural Strength, overall 20% damage nerf etc.) lowers my damage to ~70% less. My PoB went from 32mil to 10mil.


Jdevers77

Yea, that was my take too. “Problem: it’s always been hard to get crit on minions” “solution: we made it even harder to get crit on minions”. There is more crit multi at least :/


Alhoon

It's really funny they claim it has been hard to get crit on minions, if anything the problem has been it's way too easy to get crit on minions. Now it's just straight up impossible to scale with crit, unless you think new item rolls are going to make up for 3% base chance and ~500% increased crit chance.


PandaBaum

We still gotta wait for the new item mods tho. Maybe they'll make up for the loss.


Alhoon

I highly doubt it'll be anywhere close. Wand already was minion rolled item, helmet mod will be good for sure (though limits minion builds to rare helmets unless Geofri), ring is problematic because that means 1-2 sockets gone from not using Unsets and minion builds are notoriously socket starved.


Applesalty

Socket pressure will be a bit lighter with the power/frenzy charge change though, the support specters will not be so mandatory anymore.


BellacosePlayer

Between charges being nerfed and potentially dropping an aura due to reservation changes, most builds might well drop a socket or two.


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shyarp

I also felt like investing into some minion defense has been mandatory past two leagues, and will be even more so next league, with removal of base health and res, so a lot of competition for those mod slots.


Imreallythatguy

Yeah, i could be wrong but i don't like the idea of having to find room on my gear to sort out my own defenses, my minions defenses, and my minions offense. That sounds like something is going to lag and i don't want to play a build where i'm squishy or my minions die or my minions do zdps.


Invyco

Edit: I missed this part from manifesto: "Minions no longer have hidden penalties to ...Poison damage... As a result, **minions now deal approximately twice as much Poison damage**". Spiders are poison minions. This league should actually be a buff for Arakaali's fang. Arakaali's fang looks good from the changes. - Unnatural strength is big boon that we can take now (the +2 to minion gems did nothing for us before). I can see endgame taking Necro as DPS choice vs. Occultist for clear. - Halving spider's poison duration means we can maybe take advantage of awakened unbound ailment to mitigate much of the damage nerfs while still keeping poison duration ~ 10 seconds. - Charge nerf sucks hard. This is true for every minion build though. - Hydrosphere minion interaction fixed. This is to be expected but we can't cheat boss DPS now through melee splash. - Melding nerf didn't matter much. With aegis just need to slot in purity of ice to hit 90% all res still (or run rare eldrich gear). With squire version mageblood can still carry defenses. - Melding changing to - max res means premium cluster jewel suffix will likely be chaos res instead of all res for Necro variants (relieving price pressure on good all res suffix clusters). - Necro being viable end game DPS ascendancy will mean early/mid game gearing is much easier compared to occultist (sans chaos res). Can still get profane bloom (for clear) or void beacon (for DPS) through forbidden flesh/flame jewels if you want, or just run more ghastlies for Amanamu's Gaze. Even if DPS is nerfed you can probably still get 20-25mil DPS with aegis-melding version (90% all res), and 80mil DPS with squire version when optimized. More than enough to poop on all content / pinnacle bosses while having insane clear and tankiness. (As reference: This league I hit 35 mil DPS with aegis version no unbound ailment, and 95 mil DPS squire version no unbound ailment or AG, and I'm sure there are still so much room to optimize from better players. So even losing 10-20% DPS is fine). Spiders should still be strong in 3.19.


pm_me_ur_memes_son

I thought melding will have -80 all res AND -4 max res. Is it just -ve max res?


Mildan

I read it the same way. They don't mention it replacing the mod so must be another downside to it


CountVonRimjob

Your assessment doesn't mention the loss of 25% of phys as extra chaos on the spiders, that feels like a huge nerf. I was looking into league starting an arakaalis fang build, any thoughts on that loss?


Invyco

You lose the 25% phys as extra chaos yes. You gain it back in unnatural strength (30% phys as extra chaos) if you go necro (which for league start I would recommend). Losing charges still suck hard for minions. So it's still a nerf don't get me wrong. End game occultist should still be favored as you can always get unnatural strength through forbidden flame/flesh if you go squire + mageblood. For the triple offering version (which I play), I can see necro starting to compete with occultist now (as you NEED mistress of sacrifice forbidden jewels, hence losing unnatural strength). If you league start arakaali's fang I would suggest you go necro to start with triple offering version (cheapest way to get started with an unlinked queen's sacrifice + leash of oblation). This means patch should be a minimal nerf if you start that route. I would run asenah's gentle touch for clear over melee splash.


CountVonRimjob

Thanks, do you have a build guide or pob for that?


Invyco

/u/Laxaria wrote a good guide here for triple offering variant: https://www.reddit.com/r/Laxaria/comments/vhfyeg/arakaali_fang_spiders_triple_offerings_variant/ /u/polo2006 is another expert/pioneer of the build. Personally I mostly followed their posts and put in my own twist for the build. Here is my 3.18 aegis version (35mil DPS accounting for 15% cull): https://pastebin.com/gtdQAj9M Here is my 3.18 squire version (95mil DPS accounting for 15% cull): hhttps://pastebin.com/b5yXe4gQ No hydrosphere shenannigans, unbound ailment, or AG used for either PoBs. Honestly aegis version feels so much better. Squire is overkill imo.


PoBPreviewBot

>###[Hybrid MoM Raise Spiders Occultist](https://pastebin.com/gtdQAj9M) >[](#occultist) ^(Level 94) ^[[Tree]](https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABgMBXhzcenBR-1nzjxr8SxiRaGWFe4ZgZlRNz7-4ggeSwX6hvJ-4XTbpQnqFMjrGdBBJ1Y6-82_qGN-wtbdoWBEtmE2PRvrSrImsqn3x6-7kvB0UFE0Wb-w40a0kwHpUpwgXL4CkOlIsnPPdqqm1BHyDYvRg-A48FHEpJCSqLdIQUWLdzRaqf9eWakOQVVXWcbKhx2Tn9zIabONqfPD46ycv-5Zp2Bo4cqkJux8YZp7ZfPUvkQd82YnYvOra3SUhIgChACUA5wCpAOAAogAmAKoEkwDhACcA6QCrACAA4gDqACEA4wClACkA6wSWACIApgAqACMA5QCnACsAowSQAKAA5gSZBYZPuF37fX3x31uqf7oaocfqIPuW) ^| ^by ^[/u/Invyco](https://reddit.com//u/Invyco) >***** >^4,074 ^**Life** ^| ^80.42 ^**Mana** ^| ^1,708 ^**ES** ^| ^5,862 ^**total** ^**EHP** >^81% ^**Phys** ^**Mitg** ^| ^75% ^**Block** ^| ^75% ^**Spell** ^**Block** > >**Raise Spiders** [M](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Awakened_Melee_Physical_Damage_Support#support-gem-red)[3](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Awakened_Multistrike_Support#support-gem-red)[d](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Minion_Damage_Support#support-gem-blue) *(4L)* - *5.86m total DPS | 293k DPS per minion* >^5.62 ^**Use/sec** > > ^^**Config:** ^^Sirus, ^^Intimidate [](#quote_break) >###[Hybrid MoM Raise Spiders Occultist](https://pastebin.com/b5yXe4gQ) >[](#occultist) ^(Level 95) ^[[Tree]](https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABgMBXRzcenBR-1nzjxoYkfcyhXuGYGZUTc-_uIIHksF-obyfuF026UJ6hTI6xnQQjr4t0vjr37C1t2hYES2YTaHH42qsiayqffHr7uS8HRQWb-w40a0kwGpDEFGnCBcvHxg6Uiyc892qqbUEfINi9HasDjwUcSkkkFXXliSqGmxJ1WLdYPiqf49GgKR6VFXWcbL1L3KpaGXNFmTnfPBmnrzq-5Zp2PNvz37qGBo4CbvZfPrSfNmRB4nY2t0lISIAoQAlAOcAqQDgAKIAJgCqBJMA4QCjACcA6QCrACAA4gDqACEApQApAOsElgAiAKYAKgAjAOUApwArBJAAoADmAOMEmQWGT7hduhqhx_t9ffHfW6p_6iD7lg==) ^| ^by ^[/u/Invyco](https://reddit.com//u/Invyco) >***** >^4,203 ^**Life** ^| ^58.34 ^**Mana** ^| ^1,281 ^**ES** ^| ^5,542 ^**total** ^**EHP** >^54% ^**Phys** ^**Mitg** ^| ^75% ^**Block** ^| ^75% ^**Spell** ^**Block** > >**Raise Spiders** [M](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Awakened_Melee_Physical_Damage_Support#support-gem-red)[3](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Awakened_Multistrike_Support#support-gem-red)[v](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Awakened_Void_Manipulation_Support#support-gem-green) *(4L)* - *14.9m total DPS | 744k DPS per minion* >^5.65 ^**Use/sec** > > ^^**Config:** ^^Sirus, ^^Intimidate, ^^Poison ^^\(100\) [^(Path of Building)](https://github.com/Openarl/PathOfBuilding) ^| ^[Feedback](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoBPreviewBot/) ^| ^This ^reply ^updates ^automatically.


CountVonRimjob

Thank you!


HP834

If you ever work up a pob for 3.19 please share because I can't really theory craft spiders as I wanted to play it in 3.19. Thank you for sharing.


Orgasmuskrampf

Thank you a lot sir


Dairkon76

The physical to chaos, poison duration and hydro was a big nerf. But in theory minion poison damage is twice as powerful. So it helps with mapping but they bossing potential dropped. Let's wait for the minions rings.


Invyco

Imo: Losing 25% phys as extra chaos nerf is a ~15% damage nerf. If you take unnatural strength it completely mitigates the damage nerf (changes into slight buff, as we're probably one of the only builds that makes good use of 30% phys as extra chaos). Poison duration halving means we get to take awakened unbound ailment (95% more damage link) dropping awakened melee phys or awakened void manipulation link (40% more damage link), making back half of the DPS loss. Hydrosphere was a bug anyways. It was bound to be fixed. I don't count this as DPS loss. Now spiders do 100% more damage from losing the hidden penalties. So overall patch is a net DPS buff imo, even without unnatural strength. edit: oh yeah losing charges would suck though.


Dairkon76

I prefer the ocultist version with profane bloom and extra curse. Losing half the duration but getting twice the damage sounds like a buff in my book. You don't need unbound ailment if you use temporal chains. The hydro sphere is a nerf vs bosses but you can gem swap splash for other support gem removing the pressure of placing the hydro sphere next to the boss.


wild_man_wizard

I've had a poison Chains of Command build kicking around the back of my head for a while I might try. Probably won't last long enough in league to care about it not being able to boss much, but if I do I can try to worm or breach it up.


TheHappyEater

Which ascendancy are you looking at? Still necro?


peacemultiply

I am curious how you can achieve 90% all resist when Melding has - 4 to - 6% max resist? My calculation breakdown: Aegis: 5 % , Purity of Ice: 4 %, glove: +1- 2 max resist, armor: 1- 3 max (depends on budget). Maximum we can reach max resist is around 14%. 75% + 14% = 89%. If the Melding has -4%, max resist will be 85%. Am I missing something?


BellacosePlayer

**Levelling**: Levelling nerfs suck, but on retrospect every time I level as a summoner I basically stop caring about gear past my first +1 weapon or +1~2 helmet. Needing to pick up a minion shield or ring isn't going to bother me too bad. Its still gonna be better than a lot of other builds, especially ones that rely on endgame unique interactions. **Nerfs:** Charge nerf seems a bit unnecessary. Monkeys might not be worth it anymore unless *you* need the charges. Victarios' shield is more DOA than it was before. Skeleton mage nerf is fine, if a bit heavy handed. We allllll knew it was coming. Necro nerf is kind of an indirect buff if you didn't need that +1 for your helmet support minions. We're all gonna be aiming for +2 all. This makes Guardian more viable too, and I'm here for it. The nerfs to Minion crit via the mastery and power charges seem bigger than the buffs/changes for player investment, especially since it comes at the cost of Phys->chaos scaling. Aura nerfs gon' fuck us like they fucked everyone else, but at least our minions take a lot of hits for us. Oh wait, they're getting hurt by it too. Between this and the life nerfs, get used to resummoning minions. **Buffs** Intrigued by the Absolution changes and if the self-cast buff and the crit tick along with the other changes can open up a more caster/minion hybrid playstyle. Probably not, given we'll now need minion rares and slotting in something like wrath will be harder to justify if you didn't already use it or are dropping an aura due to the res nerfs. Though if the Minion rare pool has chunky base damage mods, this could get real fun, real fast. Herald of Purity getting clear buffs is nice, the dps increase means that the overall nerf without minion rares in mind isn't too bad. Though, you'll probably not be able to go full minion rare unless you have other minions that can kickstart your HOP when there's no unique around. Holy relic had some good, if potentially niche builds already. a 100% added effectiveness buff at the top end and a ~180% buff while levelling along with the regen buff seems like it's potentially really good, especially if the new minion rares feed into that. Bleed/poison buffs are potentially a fun avenue to theorycraft. Not sure if the ignite buff will do much. **Minion Rares in general** More minion afixes has been something I've wanted for awhile and if GGG is truthful about this giving minions more topend performance, I'm willing to forgive the general minion nerfs. We don't know fuck all about how good the afixes will be on the new gear, but the +2 all minion helm affix seems like an indicator that they won't be weak, unless that's a one-off to replace the Necro ascendency nerf. Rolling wands will be easier, fuck yes.


gaula

Holy relic buff is kinda a trap btw. You dont really get any flat damage added to the minion nova, so the damage effectiveness increase isn't noticable. What it does get is the possibility of a +2 minion corrupt on chest. And a +30% aoe mastery instead of crit. So that's something i guess. The life regen is also sweet of course.


Coreylala_

Might play reaper!


Zylosio

if you play summon reaper do you go bleed or hit ? Bleed damage got like 3 times buffed with the penalty being removed? Also how do you fix clear speed with it ? And what ascendancy ? Necro for hit and deadeye for bleed ?


Responsible-Pay-2389

>Bleed damage got like 3 times buffed with the penalty being removed pretty sure reaper already had their own special bleed besides othe rminions.


LaNkYLaNkZ

Absolution still looks good though and easier choice to go Inquis. now


Keeler

Might league start with Srs into a HoP/Spiders guardian build guide from the forums.


Naguro

Feels pretty rough how Necro got double-tapped in the face like that, I just hope the weighing on minion affix on the new items will be heavy enough that it's not painful like wands are currently to get 2-3+ minion tags. Or add a Harvest reforge for minion stuff


Seiyashi

Not a traditional "minion" build per se but Dark Pact with skeletons got hit by collateral damage to minion life and lost some sources of minion damage here and there. Kind of puts it back where it used to be before the "buff" from the FR nerf, which is to say underwhelming. On the bright side, Soul Mantle isn't as mandatory as before and the build didn't really resort to aura abuse, so the rest of the manifesto doesn't really affect it and the MoM change is a buff.


Vento_of_the_Front

An extemely lazy nerf to Necro's ascendancy node. While yes, you definitely can abuse it with Triad's Grip and full chaos conversion for what, 130% phys to chaos total(technically) it still won't be close to previous power up. They could've done it SO MUCH better by introducing a new concept of minion controlling for necro, like a pseudo-skill that you use and then assign behaviour types to your minions without wasting gems on them.


chx_

I will likely league start with Absolution Guardian. Looks good. If Bone Rings roll +1 to all minion skills then we are in an _incredible_ position. If not? Helmet +2 to all will still majorly boost an Absolution gem in a Skin and the utility gems elsewhere. Getting Spectres (and AG) to lvl25 will be child's play with such helmets and the new +2 socketed minion corrupt on boots. Even if the rings "only" roll flat minion damage, yay, Absolution damage effectiveness just got boosted. We need to see what happens to Ghastly jewels, of course. I am intrigued by the _seven times_ as much Bleeding damage. Knitted Horrors spectre build, anyone? Then maybe Storm Brand + Knockback support to make sure the attacked boss keeps moving around. I need me an updated PoB, I want to see this. Phantasms and HoP are buffed and HoP was already at a good place, see [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/uqpd3b/herald_of_purity_shaper_kill_25c_budget/). Overall: we will be fine. Skele mages might be less fine but _shrug_. The meta is always shifting.


meep_42

Herald of Purity will be better. I'm not sure if that's *good*, since I haven't played it in ages, but there's a \~20% damage boost in there (15% damage, 15% slam cooldown).


Twisted_Galaxi

I think the lack of the +2 ascendancy is going to hit HoP pretty hard since it scales VERY well with gem levels Edit: JK just saw the helm mod is +2 all now.


redrach

There's also a global nerf to minion damage and life, so it's not 20% stronger than it is this league. Unless the 15% more already takes that into account... not sure.


meep_42

That's a fair point, though it may be possible to overcome with some of the itemization changes.


BellacosePlayer

That's not considering new avenues for minion power on gear as well. Though I think HOP wants/needs the HOP rings, which will limit it a bit.


ShitDavidSais

Had a HoP build with Arakalis for clear do wave 30 simu with relative ease a league ago. Might have issues with the new ground dots tho bc that was an Aegis Aurora build for sustain.


meep_42

Sadly, I think the spiders were pretty much dumpstered. And who knows what the patch notes may have in store for Aegis Aurora.


Starbuckz42

No no no, they got buffed substantially, especially since they didn't rely on charges and +levels, those nerfs didn't even touch them.


InternationalTop4

To me it felt like the problem was less Aegis Aurora and far more Melding of the Flesh which created a very effective defensive layer for a fairly minimal investment from a gearing perspective (not necessarily a currency perspective).


ShitDavidSais

Weren't they strictly buffed for clear? Half the poison duration doesn't matter there but the ramp up is doubled in speed. Hydro sphere nerf also doesn't matter for clear.


meep_42

They're losing 20% more damage (extra as chaos), too, and I guess I wasn't clear on the effect of the duration on total damage, but it seems like that's fine.


ShitDavidSais

Yeah I am unsure about them as a general build but for the single purpose of add clear in a HoP one it should be good. The HoP do the chunking anyways. It's also a fairly smooth transition as you can go with Holy Relic->Dom Blow->Arakalis as league starter. It sucks a bit for leveling until you hit the aps you need (and strike range on dom blow) but it is sufficient for leveling until then and overall it is a strong build that absolutely can shit on bosses thanks to HoP.


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Aelforth

I'm surprised that they still haven't done anything for Reapers clunky style. A bit of attack speed (and losing the damage buff) isn't going to help much. Now.. if the new minion mods include a Minion Physical Ailment (Bleed) modifier, *and* also if the reduced dash damage means Reaper got more balanced autos.. then maybe it will feel better. Will need to wait for patch notes to see, possibly for PoEDB updates for the updated minion stats.


Thor3nce

I'm actually quite interested to see how SRS shapes up. I've been scared away because the prospect of crafting a good helm seems daunting, but I wonder if moving from +3 to +2 will make crafting a little easier. We'll see....


tyrantxiv

SRS - definitely, the others not at all. Golems weren't good even before the nerfs. Anima Stone was a 20c jewel by day 4.


spruceX

Yes they were, they just arent meta. Stone golem Elementalist, Carrion Golem Necro, Flame golem Elementalist is viable


CzarSaladMan

Everyone seems fine with it so can someone explain why Unnatural strength being changed from +2 to level of all minion gems isn't a huge nerf to mage skeletons? Especially after already nerfing them directly I haven't seen anyone mention it so maybe my assumption is just wrong as I am not a number cruncher


Applesalty

Unnatural strength essentially got moved to a helmet mod instead. The old +3 to socketed minions gems, on helms got changed to +2 to all minion gems. This means at investment levels lower then mirror tiers helms most minion builds aren't really losing the power of unnatural strength. Because you will just get a helm with the +2 mod on it. This actually opens up ascendancies other than necro as being more viable for minion builds. Ultimately I do think you lose a good chunk of dmg at the very top end from this change. ~20% by my very quick testing, the bigger change to mage skellies it the change to charges interacting with minions.


CzarSaladMan

Hey thanks for the explanation, I appreciate you taking the time. That makes sense.


Shrukn

> Because you will just get a helm with the +2 mod on it. At Cruel lab? Huge nerf, Necro is now the 'second build' of the league, not a starter it seems


Spirited_Scallion816

Necro is incredibly strong even without Unnatural strength. Please don't exaggerate.


HeroFromHyrule

By Cruel lab? No I'm betting you wont have a +2 helmet, but you should be able to get a +1 by then I bet. You also have the new minion wands and I wont be surprised if you can get +1 on the level 50 version of the wand in addition to other minion damage/attack speed rolls.


Takahashi_Raya

i mean the +3 to minions mod wasn't that rare either to just roll. I'm assuming the rarity of the +1-+2 mod is going to be the same as +2-+3


Responsible-Pay-2389

just throw a few minion fossils at a helmet, you won't need it till later in maps anyways homie.


hypeeeetrain

What other ascendencies do you think will be good for minions?


Applesalty

Like the other guy said, guardian becomes more viable. Elementalist becomes more viable for anything golem based. Occultist also becomes an option for poison based minion builds as well.


wild_man_wizard

Hmm. Deadeye Reaper might work at non-insane investments.


SleepyCorgiPuppy

Guardian


Hehulk

Occultist. I can see chaos conversion crit builds being a thing


Responsible-Pay-2389

>changed from +2 to level of all minion gems isn't a huge nerf to mage skeletons it was moved to a helmet mod, the only thing that died this patch was necro, not minions.


Chocolatine_Rev

As a golem ignite players, the life nerf scares be a little, previously my golem had 190k life, dunno how the balance change will affect the life pool and how it scales ( I low key hope it's a buff, since now there is less increased life in base gem, but more base life to work with


ProfessionalAtWork

Golems lost some of their %increased life scaling on the gem (68% -> 38%, lost 20% from quality), and lost a few sources on the tree but it's been replaced with 20% more base life at all levels. IMO it'll probably shake out the same since the build already stacks a shitton of increased minion life, which obviously has diminishing returns. It'll also scale better with gem levels now too. I'm confident enough that it'll be fine that I'm leaguestarting it.


Chocolatine_Rev

That's what i hope too


Dairkon76

Remember that the manifest say that minion ignite will do around 4 times more damage so don't be that worried


seqhawk

Pretty sure that's if the minions are the ones doing the igniting, not when you are igniting via blowing up your minions. Choc sounds like they're playing Maw of Mischief.


Chocolatine_Rev

Yup, hence the life issue


Zylosio

Minion instability is the minions damage tho right ? so you can play popcorn ignites


seqhawk

You can, but I kinda doubt it's going to be work all that well. Relative to Death Wish, in which you get 4 links to boost your ignite and 2 to boost minion life, and where you can detonate 13 minions into a single big ignite, you're stuck with 5 total links, one of which is presumably infernal legoin rather than something that helps your ignite, and you can only ever get one exploded minion's worth of ignite going on any one enemy.


HeroFromHyrule

I'm hoping it will work out just fine because I'm wanting to play Maw of Mischief for the first time this next league.


Chocolatine_Rev

Don't worry it shouldn't be that bad anyway


SoooDisappointed

It destroyed my build because it stacked uniques, and now the rares and mods will be mandatory.


DeepLeg3917

I feel ya, same for my builds. It's very disappointing that they want to force us to use rares now


Demorant

Nerfs suck. Overall, it looks like the barrier to enter endgame will be higher but should be fine, overall. I'm going to be doing crit scaling Absolution.


HoplarchusPsittacus

I am willing to reserve my initial skepticism and give these changes a try. I was already planning to go Chaos Golems and despite so many fundamental changes to the build I will still give it a shot.


0Ech0

Super fucking thankful!! I can finally make that minion Trickster Build I've been Lusting after for so long!


Rhys_Primo

Elementalist absolution + golems... might be ok? But probably not. Honestly this entire manifesto made me not feel bad about not being able to get time off from work.


doofinschmirtz

Currently theorycrafting HoP+Summon Phantasms w/ Holy relic as main minion.


Orgasmuskrampf

This came immediately to my mind.


Roborabbit37

My HoAg Raider got an approx 8% Damage increase up to 9.1m~ Attack speed buff is nice but the charge nerf stung a bit. That's purely just from the Gem change and Charge nerf. Need to see what the new mods and any other changes bring.


Fed11

is this char good at bossing and invitations? have a video or guide?


Roborabbit37

I didn't play it last league so my PoB will be slightly out of date, but absolutely. It's not particularly a league starter because it relies on stacking a lot of Virulence which is obtained mostly from Voices clusters. It has very good clear due to 4+ APS on crawler, but it's still AI so can be a little clunky at times. Bossing is great, Lancing steel combined with Raider attack speed keeps you at max Virulence stacks, gives tons of Life on Hit and applies Withering Touch consistently. At work right now but I'll give old PoB if you like when I'm home. I'll most likely mess around with it after patch notes.


Zeelthor

My minion instability zombie build already wasn’t quite working but now I think it’s likely fully dead.


Italian_warehouse

Ive been playing my Minion build at the bare level of gear to allow it to do T16s. So when I put currency into it next league, it will feel the exact same, only with 100ex into it rather than 10ex. :D


Liquor_Parfreyja

I don't mind the nerfs, i personally hate skeletons, glorified totems imo. Really interested in the new ring base. I know it's not a big part of the game and I'm in maps by the end of day 2 but getting minion wands at 20 and 50 is really nice, crafting a nice wand while leveling will feel like a good power spike


Spirited_Scallion816

It's exciting. I like the direction of changes. Something new to play around with, more itemization options, new builds to discover. Minions were in a very stale state for a while.


Shrukn

Seems bad, Unholy Might is just an insult SRS was the only winner from skimming the notes, I wont be touching minions this league anyway edit: Damage over time might be useable again for Minions


Zylosio

Reaper now has 3.3 times stronger bleeds than last league due to losing the penalty so maybe abuse that ?


MorgannaFactor

As always, minions will be fine. GGG has shifted away from minion builds being able to clear the entire game wearing a tabula, wanderlust and a white wand from twilight strand, but I don't exactly see that as a negative. The charge changes mean you won't have to use monke spectres on every single build now as they'll be far less worthwhile, but of course, cut into your damage. I doubt it'll be enough of a deterrent to stop minions from being usable.


Freakz0rd

I'm dumb about Minions, but to my understanding isn't SUMMON REAPER really strong now?


Spawp

Idk about really strong, but the buff to minion bleed mechanics should make it way better. It did lose +2 gem levels from the Necro ascendancy so it's kinda hard to tell rn


Phrazez

As stated in the Manifesto Summon Reaper already had a Buff to counteract the Minion Bleed Debuff, so with both gone now atleast the bleed variant didn't change more than other minions.


Zylosio

Summon reaper had 110% more damage with bleed before IIRC, and now lost the penalty it had before so now reaper does about 3.3 times more damage with bleed than before. Thats insane


ShitDavidSais

Might just go Elementalist at this point and dip into golems for regenerable minions with solid clear now that you get more benefits seemingly from gear than Necro ascendency. Can see flame and chaos golems rise in popularity a fair amount with their respective changes.


Naguro

Reaper already has hella damages, she just is mechanically pretty bad and struggles with clear. But I can see her really getting some work done for boss farming now


insobyr

I have to ask, wtf was that anime weapon change, what's the point


tsHavok

Pain I guess, actually baffled


Hoondini

My build will be fine. In fact with the gear changes it'll be better


tddahl

**My gut feelings on minions based on the balance changes:** * Golem meta shaken up substantially. Flame Golems and Lightning Golems will become valid options again, Carrion Golems and Stone Golems remain strong. Ice golem still looks bad because the only buff is to its ice spear which is a garbage filler spell, and the damage/clear is worse than the other phys golems. Chaos golem is hard to say, it will certainly be better but doesn’t look like any major changes IMO * Zombies are unchanged/nerfed, don’t see Baron builds becoming meta this league * Phys skeletons mega nerf, skeleton mages also nerfed substantially * Guardian minions – holy relic, herald of purity and herald of agony all stronger so expecting more people to play these trigger minions * Unsure about spectre buff (?) since it’s largely affected by how strong monsters themselves are. Maybe Kalandra has some Lake-emption Sentries * Animate Weapon poison build gets a big buff so will maybe be more popular. Still clunky to play **Minion ailment scaling** Might be possible for new builds to scale ailments to appear – flame golems used to ignite fairly frequently before elemental focus was widely used, it could be an interesting way to scale them. Reaper will likely still be king of bleeding. Animate weapon poison scaling will become very strong, build just sucks to play **Misc** * Physical to x conversion will be stronger overall, I wonder if full chaos conversion will be popular with the perma unholy might and general poison buffs * Due to substantial charge nerf I wonder if minions will be able to get more charges to compensate **Estimated minion tier list based on changes at a glance:** **S** Carrion Golem, Flame Golem, Lightning Golem, Animate Weapon, Raise Spider, Absolution **A** Stone Golem, Herald of Agony **B** Skeleton Mages, Summon Raging Spirits, Chains of Command (possibly), Holy Relic, Herald of Purity **C** Skeleton Warriors, Chaos Golem, Dominating Blow, Raise Zombie, Summon Phantasm (Soulwrest) **D** **E** Summon Reaper **F** Animate Guardian **Unsure tier** Raise Spectre, Minion Instability builds (I just have no desire to play or understand them since they are more like spell builds)


Orgasmuskrampf

I think HoP gonna be A tier for sure


Cynooo

Seems like all of the easily accessible power has been moved to gearing, massively nerfing leaguestarters' potential for early scaling into red maps. I will definitely be looking elsewhere for a starter and look at minions when the dust has settled.


omegaura

Poison minions (besides just Arakali Spider) seems alot more doable now? Iron Mass Shenanigans seem like they might be relevant as well now?


wild_man_wizard

Skeletons losing 50% more added damage hurts Iron Mass a lot I think. Depends on how much flat minion phys is in the affixes.


qatox

I played skeleton mages last leaugue was a lot of fun and wanted to start it this up coming leaugue but after the changes I'm gonna do something else


Barfhelmet

Holy relic changes are good on paper but if they don't add the gem level mod to the helm, why bother?


Ylvina

definetly not going to play minions again. i already struggled enough with most regular minion builds and i dont wanna have a bad leaguestart again... so far i tried: flame golem, zombies, domblow, HoP, SO spectre and skele mages (3x), all in this order... they all have been incredible squishy and unfun for my taste, except skele mages. edit: oh wait, HoAg jugg was a thing too. that one was ok as bosskiller but very slow for everything else. and the dmg was only mediocre for 3.8 times


Zylosio

Anyone got a good reaper bleed build ? With the changes he gets like 3 times the bleed damage that he had before,maybe a deadeye? you only need smth to actually get clear


Ail-Shan

I need to try a crit reaper build again once patch notes are out & PoB updates. It'll still probably be garbage, but maybe not...


Saianna

Does anyone have budget'ish SSF minion build for this league? Just wanted to try playing with it before the change


Deadandlivin

Don't league start minions. Minion survivability will be a huge issue. Maybe SRS will be fine.


MrPluszu

All buffs for me, the golem enjoyer. Time for some poison chaos golem Occy action.