The disdain for modernism, post-modernism got me.

The disdain for modernism, post-modernism got me.


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"Aversion to drugs, alcohol, pornography"? That's not any of the Right-Wing nut jobs that I know. They may (edit:spelling) talk that talk, but they don't walk that walk. "Growing collection of classic literature"? LIke... Mein Kampf, Atlas Shrugged, and anything by Ann Coulter & Michelle Malkin? "Appreciation of nation, history, and culture" Insert the word "WHITE" before each of those.


I think by literature they mean anything written by Mark Levin, Ben Shapiro, Rush Limbaugh, etc…


And only if it’s on YouTube or a Podcast Written articles are just too much effort


^ This, Memes are about all they got in the reading department. Let not even get started on Critical Thinking....


And even then. The right can’t meme


The closest they can get is propoganda on ifunny, and they get extremely butthurt when you point out that its propoganda


Memes are basically comics. Imagine someone using nothing but comics they'd clipped to claim they were well versed in anything resembling a political position.


"This is where I watch America die, Raphael"


God do I hate Mark Levin... Even when I was younger and more conservative (not the case these days lmao), I thought he made Rush seem like a nice, tolerant due.


Yea Levin is truly repulsive


Also whatever high-school literature they can find, written by a white guy, widely considered classic to the point of beating a dead horse. And they read it(or more often say they read it) so they can be smug about how art used to be better instead of this ~~Entartete Kunst~~ Post-modern avant-garde drivel we have today. You know, the same way they appreciate art of ancient Greeks/Romans, in their historically inaccurate white marble glory. It's LARPing as intellectuals.


One time I made the mistake of, jokingly, saying I was in line for Roman emperor because my gramps was a spaniard. (Spain is, to my knowledge, the country with the most legitimate claim to the "Roman Empire" crown) and oh boy this one dude went on a tirade about how Romans weren't brown folk.


I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: >Since nobody seems willing to state the obvious due to cultural sensitivity... I’ll say it: rap isn’t music ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: feminism, sex, civil rights, dumb takes, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)


Good bot


I kinda want to propose marriage to the Ben Shapiro bot.


*My only real concern is that the women involved -- who apparently require a "bucket and a mop" -- get the medical care they require. My doctor wife's differential diagnosis: bacterial vaginosis, yeast infection, or trichomonis.* -Ben Shapiro ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: patriotism, climate, sex, feminism, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)




*America was built on values that the left is fighting every single day to tear down.* -Ben Shapiro ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: dumb takes, novel, feminism, sex, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)


Thank you for your logic and reason. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: covid, novel, dumb takes, patriotism, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)


Good bot


Take a bullet for ya babe. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: sex, climate, feminism, novel, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)


Good bot


Take a bullet for ya babe. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: feminism, covid, healthcare, patriotism, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)


Good bot.


Thank you for your logic and reason. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: feminism, sex, healthcare, dumb takes, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)


Best bot ever.


*News accounts have repeatedly characterized Ms. Cooper as having threatened Mr. Cooper, but that is the opposite of what happened.* -Ben Shapiro ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: feminism, dumb takes, climate, sex, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)


These are the same people who will grab their news from a misleading headline and they wanna act like they read fucking whole books... nah don't buy it.


I remember I had argued with someone because they claimed Marx committed genocide. They told me to not argue with them because their bookshelf is full of Marx-related content. Clearly they never read any of their “marx-related content” books on their bookshelf.


Oh yeah, Carl Marx, not the philosopher, the one who shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.


guy's name was Gene so I guess technically it could be considered as genocide?


My shelf is full of Marx.... Groucho killed me many, many. many times.


Don’t forget Killing Lincoln!


Oh yeah! How could I forget Bill O’Reilly?


They mean the Turner Diaries


Nah, they clearly just mean Dr. Seuss.


But that was cancelled!!!11!


(Spock ears tingling) Oh, you mean the *greats.*


Now that I think about it all conservatives I know are doing tons of drugs. Some are mainly just into psychedelics but I know a house full of die hard magat meth heads Edit holy shit even my parents are on klonopin, Ritalin, and drink every day too


All the ones I know are either alcohol or pain pills.


Yep, at least half the chuds I know are raging alcoholics. A good chunk of them support marijuana legalization too - probably one of the few issues a majority of the political spectrum agrees on, honestly. But yeah, to your point, my anecdotal experience with the mucho toxic masculinity far-righters is that they absolutely do a shit load of drugs. I wouldn't stereotype that confidently if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes on multiple occasions. So many of them get their face in the local paper too for getting drunk and domestic violencing their wives and girlfriends.


Turns out that viewing alcohol tolerance as a masculinity competition leads to getting fucked-up and letting all those insecurities out. When that mindset is coupled with emotional immaturity and poor impulse control things can turn violent fast. If you're going to drink, always do so in responsible amounts and settings. Never use alcohol as a way to temporarily escape from a low point. Stay hydrated and don't mix alcohol with medications or other substances.


I think I'll take the meth heads over a bunch of tripping peckerwoods. \*shudder\*


Tucker Carlson used to follow Phish.


The herd of Cons that I know are all popping pills like Skittles and think nothing of it. I've driven a step-relative to her doctors appointment one time for a checkup on her mostly healed "broken" ankle. She was walking around just fine, albeit with a slight limp for the past month before her appointment. But suddenly, upon parking at the clinic, she needed her crutches and wasn't letting that foot touch the ground at all... another step-relative has mentioned to me that he's noticed the same thing with her as he took her to a few appointments. She's been milking her injury for as many pain pills as she could since it happened. I then drove her to the pharmacy to get her *fix* picked up. She's on Medicare so there was no co-pay (we were in the drive thru picking it up, there was no cards involved other than ID). It's irritating to see tax dollars being wasted to support her drug addiction. It wastes our taxes & it's a waste of the medication that others legitimately need and aren't abusing it. Also, her personal role in this feeds into the factual stereotype that **Cons vote against their own best interests, because if her party had their way, she wouldn't have Medicare anymore** and wouldn't be able to get the regular care she needs (_minus the drug addiction_). That was the one and only time I drove her. I've told her that my car can't drive very far due to engine issues, so she could stop asking me. I'm not going to help enable her addiction. My conscience wouldn't ever forgive myself if she ends up in the hospital due to some form of complication with her drug abuse. Myself and other people have tried to politely talk about her issue but it falls upon ignorant ears.


Ha!! My trumper sister needed a knee replaced but didn't want surgery because she'd have to miss work (she's not hurting for money, she's a higher up at the USPS who has control issues ans thinks the organization that's been operating since the Pony Express will somehow buckle without her there to supervise the supervisors' supervisors). She was just fine to work every day but when her ortho appointments came up in was in sooo much pain. She'd take the pills at night "to help her relax". I told her she's becoming a druggie and she said "I don't know why they can't just prescribe them for me to feel good, it's not like it's heroin". Big ole eyeroll from this nurse..


Side note: I'm so thankful that my (drug-experienced, formerly addicted) dad gave me a comprehensive real-talk education about the basic composition and effects of different drugs, along with best practices for approaching them and partying responsibly. I find that a lot of us Americans are pretty oblivious about what drugs are -- often with fatal consequences -- leading to people like your aunt concluding that pharmaceutical heroin isn't anything like heroin.


It should be a sub of its own. r/ConservativesOnMedicaid. Not that they’re on it, but that they bash government programs while they’re on it.


If those kids could read, they’d be real mad.


>history Yeah, my ass. I’ve talked about historical topics with a lot of right-wingers, if briefly, and they are the most ahistorical motherfuckers on the planet. Whenever a right-winger makes a statement or comparison to a historical instance, it’s invariably wrong. They absolutely despise learning real history because it’s conclusions are antithetical to modern-day conservativism and it’s motivations and goals.


ThE cIvIL wAr wAs aBoUt sTaTeS rIghTs


Yep that’s definitely in their Greatest Hits along with “Nazis were leftists”, “slavery wasn’t actually that bad” , and “[moderate, capitalist Democrat] is just like [Marxist-Leninist communist leader]”


My mom thinks Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama are socialists lmao


Only rights for the states that wanted to own people. The southern states were very much against states rights for states that wanted to protect fugitive slaves. This should always be mentioned to those idiots.


The problem for them is that reality itself has a liberal bias.


Well it's not real history. It's history that proves their point. It's confirmation bias. Find the thing that reinforces your ideology and you can say it was always like this: "It's right here in this history book." It's a powerful weapon when the folks you're trying to convince do not read *at all*.


They also love quoting 1984 unironically.


Not quoting it, but definitely incessantly mentioning it to make people think they’ve actually read it


A tattoo studio I went to once had a copy of 1984 in the waiting area. Someone had written "NOT A MANUAL" on it in sharpie. I think all future editions of the book should come with such an annotation.


There is a reason red states tend to be absolutely infested with meth.


I was going to say, hell of a take coming from a group of people all on meth and heroin


And all of those books have pristine spines


Neo nazi and meth might as well be the same word.


Yes, whenever I see a conservative, I always think “now there goes a fit, well read individual” After they run over my foot in their get around scooter wearing a fuck biden shirt in front of children while screaming “fuk yer feelins libterd “


Yeah, they're usually the kind of people who don't know what's in the Bible while insisting that we base policy on it.


i love to invent bible quotes ane see if they notice works all the better if they are abstract or seem irrelevant and you sell it with a knowing look: >and lo, Eknepecim spoke once more, his voice suffused with the light of the lord, saying ‘blessed be this day, for mine eyes hath been unbroken’ \- Obidiah 4:3 pro move is to throw it among some real ones, but tbh i’ve yet to have anyone call me out either way


Oh shit. I do this too. Instead of real quotes, I make up my own hybrids. *"For thine is the light, and thine is the glory. In keeping we shall render unto Cesar what is Cesar's, render unto God what is God's, and smite all enemy's with clear purpose and divine justice, forever and ever, Amen.*" -Laviciouscus 45:17


I fucking snorted at Laviciouscus.


Why does this make me think of FNV.


Don't you love the fact that they're so happy that they leave everyone else alone? /s


I saw a jeep gladiator driven by a rather obese couple with probably $25k in mods hauling two motorized wheelchairs in the bed. If that’s not the epitome of the maga crowd, I don’t know what is.


According to that, Alabama should be this near utopia of übermensch, while in reality it’s a shitload of human blobs in rascal mobility scooters dying of COVID to own the libs.


"Who is the Aryan superman? He is tall, like Goebbels! Slim, like Goerring! Blond, like Hess! And heroic, like the Fuhrer!"






I always find it hilarious that the same guys who clearly fall into the overcompensation camp with regards to the size and style of their truck are also the ones proudly flying Trump flags and Confederate flags from the back of said truck. Truly the true intellectuals of the modern age


Is it a coincidence that when statues and flags from the confederacy were taken down, or at least frowned upon that the maga crowd latched on to trump?


No, its not. What we saw with the maga crowd is exactly what happens when a high school bully finally gets told off for being an asshole. They cried, and latched onto someone who they thought would enable them to continue to be assholes with no consequences. They very nearly got their way too. As much as Covid has been horrible and a tragedy, we can thank it for exposing Trump to be as inept as he is


You forgot the misspelled sign with grammatical errors taped to the back of the scooter


I love this fantasy-land idea where the "average" conservative is highly intellectual, well read, and an art-lover, AND also being some kind of fit, wellness guru and nature-loving philosopher, AND AND also rigidly traditional and honest about their morality. It sounds so much better than the reality where the average conservative *barely* reads, fetishizes firearms as the solution to life's problems, forms all their opinions based on a combination of Facebook memes and what their pastor says at church, intentionally blows black smoke out of their over-sized gas-guzzler, has no knowlege of any culture apart from country music, and appreciates nature by chucking empty beer cans out in the woods while pissing in the nearest stream and shooting at endangered owls.


Being absolutely delusional is also one of their attributes.


The online conservatives do have a chunk of folks who are so-called "fitness guru" types...all of whom seem to make their living selling some MLM type supplement. I know several. As they moved from being quiet about their beliefs into being active politically (online only in many cases) and leaning further and further right, they all started posting constant FB religious quotes. They're all now passionate that 45 won bigly, and post Q crap -- well, up until the point where their accounts get locked, that is. Turns out that they do all read, mostly books in the "you are wonderful, think it and you'll get rich and powerful" genre along with fitness books that tell the tale of how the poor suffering book writer got through a horrible childhood and now is 100% healthy AND makes lots of money, so buy book #2 if you want to know the real secrets. Oh, and they read prepper books. Of course, those books are read by lantern, as they're resting after a hard day hiking in the wilderness, and appear in the IG stream as a "you MUST read this" but strangely the books look brand new even when supposedly in the backpack during a bazillion mile hike. (Except any books over 10 years old, like their Ann Rand books from high school, those always look like they're read more than the Bible.) No matter what they did for a living previously, they're all fitness coaches now, posting lots of photos of their muscles and workout clothes (while at the same time complaining about "low-class" women who post photos showing off their tight dresses, because that's different from tight workout clothing somehow). They get bonus likes for all their muscle photos where there's a gun or two in the background.


Wow, I haven't encountered this personality type. Fascinating. Where I live the dominant culture is what I term "suburban redneck", big trucks, cowboy boots and Bud Light. The wealthiest of my neighbors work in oil fields.


It's relatively new. Like OP said, they were either non-political or quiet about their political beliefs until very recently. Who knows how genuine it is, and how many are just scam artists who correctly recognize how easily conned their followers were and decided they wanted even more money.


> Disdain for post-modernism Hey, a dog whistle for Jews! They actually listed a good warning sign! Good job sign 👍


> Hey, a dog whistle for Jews! They actually listed a good warning sign! Good job sign 👍 Yuuuuuuuuuup. It's just repackaging "cultural bolshevism".


Ahhhh so THIS is why they always say "Cultural Marxism."


No, it's just a repeat of Nazi propaganda. The whole thing is stolen from Nazi propaganda.


That’s where “Cultural Bolshevism” came from, and why it needed repackaging.


I didn't know that. I guess I have some reading to do.


Careful, too much reading and learning about history will turn you into a conservative. /s.


I'll be careful to avoid any *real* edumacation. If it's not supported by a 2000 year old book, then it's not science.


It's also been rebranded as cultural marxism if you're gonna be reading up.


The ‘need’ to repackage it was part of the alt-reich’s effort to make the abhorrent palatable in social discussion, or at least to allow plausible deniability when ones arguments are linked back to their poisonous origins. As Spencer was trying to make clear: they have to repackage hate, racism, fascism, antisemitism, etc as strength, patriotism, and purity… otherwise they’ll be pariah that are deservedly shit upon for being the lame fucksticks they are.


"Cultural Bolshevism" is the name of the Nazi conspiracy theory that the Jews(tm) were infiltrating their society from Russia through art and music. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Bolshevism


Thank you for that.


I thought it meant they loathed Danish Modern furniture design. "It's just a board with wood blocks for legs and they call this shit a coffee table?" OMG, my child is a right wing extremist!


Does Donald have an aversion to drugs, alcohol and pornography? Well, no. Dude famously fucked a pornstar. Does Donald have an interest in physical fitness and mental well-being? HAHAHA. Do you think Donald reads classical literature? :-) What about monogamy? :-) Guys, I think Donald was the most left-wing extremist president the US ever had!


He handed the Democratic Party the House, then the Presidency and finally the Senate in 4 short years. It's hard to imagine how he could have done more harm to the Republican Party, but he's not done yet.


Either the GOP survives or the US does.


Funny thing is, by focusing on rebelling against Covid and solidifying the party response as "fuck the dems" that means many Republican voters, the dumb ones who listen blindly, are going to be at best, sick. However the smart ones already got Vaccinated, and they're the ones still telling people its fine to die in the hospital. And even then, Republicans are less likely to vote explicitly because the politicians have been stating its rigged. They're killing their turnout metaphorically and literally.


I don't see it as funny because it scares the shit out of me. They've obviously latched onto the idea of "election fraud" as a viable tool for agitating their voters, and one so effective it will motivate them to violence. As you're outlining, this path can't lead them to a larger voting demographic, so where do they imagine it goes? 😬


Well they know they can't really win elections fairly so they have to rig it and if they cannot rig it then they will reject elections. They want more shootings, more bombings, more terrorism, more tragedy, and they'll stand in the way of acknowledging all of their violence was fueled by hate. They call it a culture war in the media, and a civil war in the garage.


Modernism is the culture of the 1890s to just after WW2. It is the culture of the greatest generation. It is behind us. Why is it scary to somebody?


You’re giving them too much credit. I doubt many of them even know what modernism is.


So I used to be really well read in this field (time wasted in college philosophy classes). There are varying definitions, but the simplest version is: post-modernism as an academic movement largely denies the existence of “capital T Truths” that explain the structure of the world. When it rose to prominence in the 1960s, it was largely presented as a rejection of scientific portrayals of social phenomena such as sexuality, gender, race, etc. This ideology was largely cut from a libertarian cloth: it prioritized individual experiences over grand narratives, and appealed to many who resisted state control of populations and media. The modern Trumper is peak post-modernism. They deny science, prioritize anecdotal evidence, and generally feel that their little-t truths & experience of the world is more valid than ideas born through the enlightenment tradition. There are brands of conservatism that adhere to modernist principles, but the bulk of the modern conservative movement is actually built on post-modernist principles. Just one more layer of irony for all of it! Edit after conversation in the comments: postmodernism takes many forms across different fields. Speaking very broadly, it sees itself as a challenge to existing conventions / values that present themselves as Universal. For example, in art, it could be challenging traditional conventions dictating beauty. In society, it challenges social norms dictating how folks should behave or present based on their biological sex (trans folks, non-binary, etc.). In politics, it challenges many things - there are left and right wing postmodernists. In the comment above, I was pointing out how some right wing folks have adopted postmodernist rhetoric to describe how the old-fashioned roles of government & media need to be destroyed. The “fake news” & troll-oriented phenomena we’ve seen really stand out - any kind of convention-shattering political strategy fits the bill, especially when used by those who fight for personal liberties at all costs. All that said, there are also liberal & conservative modernists. Many conservatives display modernist beliefs when they want to create a religious government, or to impose morality on others. That said, these are advanced concepts and it’s been years since I’ve talked about them. Don’t take my comment as gospel, just the ramblings of a former philosophy nerd


Huh. My schooling is largely in art and psychology. The whole page so openly echoes Nazi propaganda (particularly the Nazi youth stuff, purity, nature, fucking and having children as soon as possible to raise as soldiers, etc.) I just assumed the modernism/post modernism crap was art related (the Nazi's had a mania for "degenerate art") and the person disseminating this crap didn't understand what that part was about. But if your interpretation is accurate, then it's likely the person putting these up *really* didn't understand that part.


Yeah, that's always been a bit confusing to me. Studied music here, and modernism and post-modernism in the art/music world seems to be completely unrelated to those same terms in the philosophy world.


I should clarify - I was studying these concepts in the context of political science, so it may differ entirely from your experience with it. Out of curiosity, what’s the core difference between modernism & post modernism in your field?


Modernism was focused a lot on deconstructing the elements of [Western classical/art] music and using them in unconventional and sometimes procedural ways. This is a broad stylistic period, though, and can include distinct styles like absurdism, expressionism, serialism, impressionism, nationalism or socialist realism, randomization, early electroacoustic/musique concrète, etc., and other composers who don't fit neatly into any single category, like Messiaen. Postmodernism is both a reaction to and evolution of modernism. Rather than completely rejecting the deconstructivist elements of modernism, postmodernism sought to loosen the procedural elements that high modernism (in the form of total serialism) had imposed through its domination of academia. This included poly-stylism, extreme use of cultural references, use of pop culture elements, mixing of "high" and "low" culture, minimalism and post-minimalism, and use of older classical forms that the modernists eschewed. On the philosophical side, some people think it's classical music's inevitable conclusion under late capitalism, though personally, I think it's because high modernism is awful to listen to and too difficult to write while baked, which was a consideration when postmodernism became a thing in the '70s. EDIT: Modernism also ended up with an attitude of not caring about the listener, and producing "art for art's sake." However, not caring about the listener results in music that nobody wants to listen to, and post-modernism also sought to revitalize the relationship with the audience to some extent. Here's my favorite example of postmodernist music, Berio's Sinfonia (mvt. 3): https://youtu.be/9YU-V2C4ryU EDIT 2: Also I realize that there are some significant parallels between philosophical and musical modernism and postmodernism, but maybe more as a result of cultural osmosis. Some composers were into politics and philosophy, but many weren't or had superficial knowledge, so these composers and music scholars will often define these terms in ways that reflect the intellectual movements, but don't seem to be directly derived from them.


> I think it's because high modernism is awful to listen to and too difficult to write while baked I'm totally going to work this into a paper at some point.


Mentioned this in another comment but my exposure to these concepts was via social/political theory. They apparently differ in meaning when used into describe art movements! I also boiled down a huge field of literature to a few sentences so there may be nuance missing that applies in the art world. The art explanation probably makes more sense in this context, but if nothing else it’s just a multifaceted misuse of the words and speaks even more volume to how out of pocket the author of the sign was when throwing scary words around. These reactionary types are by definition terrified of change, so adding “post-“ to describe new eras of thought functions like a dog whistle of sorts to scare old fashioned folks. Thanks for your comment, I enjoyed learning about the different meaning you inferred. I guess it’s appropriate in a discussion of post-modernism that our interpretations of the text differ so much! Edit to add: from what you mentioned about degenerate art, it’s possible the poli-sci definitions of these terms is the same as the art meanings. The shift to degenerate art, art that obscured the literal form of the subject, etc. were (to my knowledge) movements meant to challenge stuffy, hierarchical conventions that defined “true art,” especially coming out of the Renaissance period where art was largely evaluated based on its depiction of beauty, perfect form, Greek stuff, etc. I might be wrong but I think we’re on the same page, just a case of lost in translation!


Thank you for the insight. I did a little light reading online looking at the social/political theory you're talking about and it seems unrelated to the art/musical context of those terms, but the time periods overlap so I suspect somebody who knows more about both of those aspects could give some insight into why that is. I agree the art context makes more sense, if only because this sort of mindset seems more likely to reject an image they don't approve of then to study a philosophical point of view and reject it (much like their current rage over 'CRT', that clearly gives the impression they have no idea what it is about). Most obviously these people have a penchant for stringing words together without much attention to relevance, redundancy or sense. Like *"Leftist Communist Marxist Liberal Fascist Chicom Socialist Democrats"* and other craziness. A lot of their political thoughts seem to be rooted in talking points and words they think are scary, rather than any coherent political agenda or policy idea.


The part about modernism and postmodernism is the tell, IMHO. The rest of it dovetails with a highly generalized version of conservativism. The part fixating on modernism and post-modernism is a little too much, though.


God, I love what you wrote. I am researching neuroticism and schizophrenia. I am finding a lot of links post modern thinking and it causing a lot of schizophrenic-type illnesses within its influence...


Tell me you don't know what socialism is without telling me. Repeat with "communism", "critical race theory", etc. They like *sounding* smart, without actually knowing what they're talking about.


But but but Dr. Lobster Bed Maker Man said post modernism bad


They think “modernism” is gayysssss


While worshiping ancient Greeks and Romans with ZERO sense of irony


You are correct, fellow redditor


Every time I respond to one of these posts, I note that education is lower and of lesser quality in red states, while crime, drug use, and underage and unwed motherhood are all higher. And the first one of them who can define modernism (or globalism) will be the first.


It was a time of unparalleled union power in the US. This scares them because unions bad and someday they'll make their billions *you just wait and see!*


Well, for one, it's after slavery was abolished, so that will not do to these fuckwits...


By “classic literature”, they must mean the Turner Diaries and Mien Kampf.


You missed Ayn Rand, plus a keen appreciation for nationalistic art deco pieces.


Weird, all the right wing extremists I know are obese, barely literate drug addicts who have more ex wives that my cat has lives


Physical fitness???


Not sure if it's a thing anymore but around like 2012ish a lot of alt right websites were packaging this self-improvement idea and fitness was part of it, especially with anti-women sites, like mgtow and "return of kings".


[I don’t think it caught on everywhere](https://imgur.com/a/s2M5aG3)


I think it's more about feeling superior compared to being superior lol. In their minds they are the "yes chad" guy meme


Marching with tiki torches.


Ah. Silly me.


They misspelled physical fatness.


If you look at Nazi youth propaganda, this all fits. Classical music, physical fitness, nature, breeding young, etc.


Yeah but if you look at actual right wingers it’s Funyuns and YouTube. The breeding young still applies, I’ll give them that.


fitness whole pizza in their fat faces.


>Appreciation of ~~nation~~ colonialism, ~~history~~ genocide, and ~~culture~~ mayonnaise casserole FTFY


Off topic but Mayonnaise Casserole sounds soooooooooo gross.


>Disdain for post-modernism Odd considering that MAGAism is glaringly post-modernist.


- being a smarmy unlikable shit with a superiority complex because they just mimic your perspectives for scraps of approval - bigoted tendencies that's going to lead them to a life of being horrible and then facing social repercussions for being horrible - general scientific and academic ignorance - joining a militia terrorist cell/far right gang like the proud boys - getting grifted by rightwing talkshow personalities like Tim Pool - becoming a loony conspiracy theorist - planning to shoot up a school/place of worship/mall/other gathering place because of far right memes and being an incel


they don't read


i love when they complain about post modernism, lol bro, catch up, that was ages ago


"Growing collection of classic literature"? AHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH I've had a Trumper scream at me to "read more books!" because they thought it was a mega-insult. Not to mention classic lit usually = college education. These people are out of their fackin' tiny little minds.


I see they've got their Ben garrison goggles on again.


\- Stockpiling weapons and ammunition for the coming civil war \- Pipe bombs to send to government buildings, media organizations to the left of hunting the poor for sport, planned parenthood, black churches, or just to distract the police while you attempt a coup


\-Writing a manifesto filled with ignorance and hate towards immigrants, gays, liberals, muslims, black people and every "other" group that isn't a WASP. It's also so badly written that it makes Mein Kampf look like a masterpiece of literature.


Fixed: * Public aversion to drugs, alcohol, pornography. Private obsession over each. * Obsession over physical fitness, mentally unwell * Doesn't read books, because books are socialist propaganda by the devil * Monogomy until it's inconvenient. Desire to *own* a wife. * Increased time spent in conspiracy youtube * Appreciation of white nation, history, and culture. Disdain for everything else. * Disdain for any buzzwords Fox and Friends tells you to hate.


This is the same shit is when religious people claim ownership of morality. What I'm saying is, conservatism has become a religion. It's faith based.


Aversion to drugs, alcohol, pronography. Every scumbag I've ever encountered in any capacity sure as hell wasn't opposed to the first two and I don't even want to know about what kind of the last one these were into. And regarding the growing collection of classical literature... Yes, I know a lot of people that have most of the Harvard shelf in order to show of how erudite they are but haven't read any single one of them. They're called pseudo-intellectuals like most of the Far-Right extremists are which somewhat contradicts the whole being out in nature btw. FFS I can't even with these people RN.


Desire to marry and procreate? No one can afford to do that shit anymore.


Not without government help, anyway. I'll see myself out.


"Appreciation of Nation, History, and Culture" I guarantee they're talking about hentai here


Important to note: this paper was made by a far right person trying to show how "crazy" the world is and how oppressed they are.


As a hobbyist-scholar of literature the thing that insults me most is their grouping of modernism and post-modernism together. I doubt any Trumper is going back to civil war era or antebellum times for their stories. Whatever they mean by "classic literature" is very likely middle/late modernism (considering they didn't say "classical literature"), obvious stuff like Fitzgerald or Orwell that they haven't touched since high school. I'm guessing whoever made it was just thinking about architecture (which for some reason right wingers are really crazy about rolling back) or Mark Rothko style paintings.


the post-modernism shit is hilarious they're spreading their dumbass propaganda using baby talk on the INTERNET, but yeah tell me more about how you embrace traditionalism


Look at all the far right incels pretending they don't watch porn. Thats funny.


Jesus, this is what they think they look like?


I'm not being hyperbolic here when I say that this legit sounds like the goals for a Hitler Youth group.


"a growing collection of classic literature" Oh, please. your god fearing ass would more likely burn a book than to read it. I bet there isn't a single one of you Gadsden groping chuckle-fucks who knows what country "1984" took place in without googling it. You don't even know that the bible mandates mask wearing during times of sickness, and that's the one fucking book you just wont shut up about.


> what country "1984" took place in without googling it. Well, it was Oceania. But Winston lived in today's UK, right?


"Disdain for modernism and post modernism" - We don't actually know what either mean, but to us modern = bad and that's good enough for us.


Disdain for modernism is literally a Fascist tenet. From Umberto Eco's '[UR-FASCISM](https://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf)' (page 6): >Traditionalism implies the rejection of modernism. Both Fascists and Nazis worshiped technology, while traditionalist thinkers usually reject it as a negation of traditional spiritual values. However, even though Nazism was proud of its industrial achievements, its praise of modernism was only the surface of an ideology based upon Blood and Earth (Blut und Boden). The rejection of the modern world was disguised as a rebuttal of the capitalistic way of life, but it mainly concerned the rejection of the Spirit of 1789 (and of 1776, of course). The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.


So your kids a fucking square that secretly jerks off to an anime pillow


This is the biggest fuckinng LARP I’ve ever seen. This is how they see themselves.


According to this I, the most die hard leftist I know, am a far right extremist


It's funny when environmentalists and hunters find themselves shaking hands, isn't it? Jokes aside, this is just Nazi propaganda repackaged and gaslighting garbage.


Composed by an idiot who does not understand what Modernism means.


Collection of classic literature? I don’t think even one Trump supporter has any idea what that is. Hiking too is awfully woke. Doesn’t like John Barth or Thomas Pynchon? Well, now we’re just being petty.




I love when they say “we need to learn from our history” and then cherry pick certain events that are taken out of context while conveniently ignoring others.


American History X


Every Trumper I personally know is an obese slob with barely a high school education, who hasn’t read any literature since they were in school. They also smoke weed like it’s going out of style and drink Busch beer by the case. Also, the only time they spend outdoors is going to the local high school football game.


I dunno if my *child* started displaying a sudden interest and monogamy and procreation I’d find that a little worrying


Far-right morons wouldn’t know classic literature if Shakespeare’s ghost writer slapped them in the face with an original manuscript.


They only collect classic literature other than Mein Kampf and The Turner Diaries is so they can burn the books. Based on how and what they post, they cannot read or write.


As someone who has taught History for more than a few years now, I can tell you for a fact that a complete hatred of history and those that really know it is the first tell-tale sign of a far-right extremist.


Growing collection of literature? I’m surprised if any of them are even literate.


> Aversion to drugs, alcohol, pornography Don't the Proud Boys claim they're "just" a drinking club? Wasn't Rush Limbaugh hooked on Oxy for years? Didn't Ted Cruz accidentally like porn video on Twitter?


"Growing collection of classic literature." Alright. Now I *definitely* know you're full of shit.


"My son can't stop talking to me about how averse he is to pornography! Totally normal!"


Today I found out I’m a far right extremist


They forgot- Hatred of racial integration- love of slavery.


And rage for anybody who doesn't conform.


To be fair, modernist architecture is pretty fucking horrid.


The right doesn't respect any culture that's not primarily white and worshipping Jesus.


Only supply side jesus ofc.


Of course, if you actually follow the stuff Jesus preached they'd call for your crucifixion.


Who.. who do they think they are?


The vibe I got from this… “ubermensch.”


The kind of person who would post this drivel would be hard pressed to define modernism or post modernism.


I have an interest in mental well being, classic literature, nature, history & culture and I'm a "far left" "extremist". Hilarious. Also, there's a ton of drugs & alcohol in the white supremacist crowd.


>aversion to drugs, alcohol lmao


Meth be a typo.


"Increased time spent outdoors or in nature." Lol. Lmao.


That would be an appreciation of rose-tinted, revisionist history, I suppose.


They consider Mein Kampf classical literature.


It's like people who draw furry art, the truth has to just slip in their somewhere, they literally can't stop it. You can find any video on YouTube of someone with an animated furry anthro avatar, talking about literally anything--politics, movies, sports, books, culture, anything. And at some point in the video you will see a highly detailed or emphasized element of that character design or the cinematography, where the artist shows you what they're fetishes. Maybe it just zooms in on the feet too much, overly detailed teeth, any occasion to show muscles, whatever it is. It's the same with this; they can make a reasonable meme, a viable slander campaign, a nice piece of 'art' like this designed to convey a convincing message. Much of it might even seem acceptable or downright positive. But somewhere in their messaging, they have to put a kernel of what they're really about. They just can't help themselves.


**Features of Fascism #2:** The rejection of modernism.