By - notreallycool1
I feel people are forgetting they just signed Foye from Atlanta
I think Trent Baalke is a dumb shit sob
I mean you’re not wrong there lol
Even bigger problem though is our owner, he believes Baalke is god's gift to football. When in reality no other team would even let him near their facilities, for any position, at all. Not scout, not GM, not janitor.
I still dont understand what the hell was going on in Jags Owner mind when he decided to hire Baalke as GM. 49ers fans can confirm how horrible he was and looks like he continues being horrible.
He hired him as an "assistant GM" or something but everyone knew he was going to snake his way into that GM role as soon as it was announced. The guy has been terrible but Shad thinks he is great. Some Jags fans will say "well his draft last year wasn't bad" but that just isn't true. Most of his picks never seen the field and he doesn't get credit for Trevor Lawrence. Besides all of that, he is allegedly searching for an assistant GM now so he can be down on the practice field, like a coach. Which is just laughable.
My issue with the Muma pick is that you sign Foye for 3 yrs 45 million and then traded up in the 1st to take Lloyd, and now you’re taking Muma in the 3rd? Yeah BPA….but you’ve invested so much in a low value position already and all three of them can’t be on the field at the same time. The Muma pick was a luxury pick IMO
The fact that the average fan didn’t know who Muma is is irrelevant. Why does that matter.
Mike Caldwell wants to run a 3-4 base and with Muma wearing the green dot. All 3 of them absolutely can and will be used on the field at the same time.
Do the Jags play a ton of base defense? I know for the Cowboys, they play mostly nickel nowadays. It feels like the league is trending that way in general.
You're playing the Colts x2 and Titans x2 in that division though, so you're probably going to have more linebackers on the field more often than most other teams
This. Derrick Henry has built a HOF resume out of playing the Jaguars alone. Jonathan Taylor is on his way to doing the same. First step on the road to success is stopping the run. People who are bitching about our picks dont seem to think about this. Walker was the best edge setter vs the run in this class. And he can be moved inside. Hutchinson isn't going to give you either of those options and clearly Caldwell values the ability to stop the run over pure pass rush.
I think you're overlooking the fact that walker has, despite being surrounded by talent, never shown anything as a pass rusher. Even with 14**** other nfl players on that defense he never was able to show enough to be considered a high end nfl player until he blew up the combine. Walker screams rashan Gary to me in that while he is super athletic, he has so few natural skills that it will take him Years of good coaching to even be an nfl player, let alone the best player in the class (which 1.1 should be)
🙄 Idk why Im going to waste my time but here goes, youre just talking out of your ass. Kirby Smart said if Walker had been asked to rush the passer he would have had more sacks. He was 2nd on the team in sacks as well. Youre also conveniently disregarding the most important aspect of his game, the ability to stop the run - which I very clearly explained is the goal on our defense.
He was considered a top 10-15 prospect before the combine. He was hands down, the anchor of that UGA defense. Go watch the tape before you start spewing uninformed garbage out of you dick holster.
Wow someone is a bit sensitive for their UGA boys lol. The fact that his most notable skill is stopping the run, plus the fact that as you said, Kirby didn't ask turn him loose to rush the passer means that either: Kirby is terrible at evaluating talent and skills so he misused walked all the time, or b) walker is not a naturally gifted pass rusher, despite his athletic gifts (i.e. he's more Clowney than Aaron Donald on the inside or bosa on the edge) he likely will be a good player, but the odds of him being the best player (or EDGE) in the 2022 class are slim.
Nah its just really annoying to hear the same uninformed take regurgitated over and over. And seeing as youre clearly too stupid to realize when youre embarrassingly wrong, I suppose you'll continue to just spout off whatever terrible take first pops in your obviously limited brain. It really is surprising how dumb people can be, even when you give them a chance to redeem themselves. Good luck in life kid.
Lol look my guy, I'm sorry that she (or he I don't judge) said no, but there is no need to spout off insults just because you're upset
TBD. It's Caldwell's first year in Jax and first year as a DC so we'll have to wait and see.
He was always solid with the ILB's when with the Jets. I think Caldwell will do alright from what I've seen.
Glad to hear that. Im really excited to see how he handles it. I know he ran a fantastic group in Tampa and he's spent like 14 years as Bowles disciple so he has serious potential as a DC. Hope he makes the most of it.
Good q. I feel like nickel is base around the league now
With Josh Allen and Walker on the roster too?
3-4 runs 2 Inside Linebackers,
Those other 2 LBs are pass rushers. I dont see any of those LBs as pass rushers.
Also thats a defense you run against 12 personnel. Most teams will get an advantage in 11 personnel.
Is it really a low value position though when 4 of your games are against Derrick Henry and Jonathan Taylor? And if those linebackers can also cover RBs and TEs man to man, drop into zone, and able to blitz really well they add a lot of versatility to the defense. Teams that don't have good LB play always seem to pay a price for that.
Yeah I mean, fair enough, but value is determined by how much teams pay for it.
Teams pay more for QB, WR, OT, Dline, EDGE, and CB because generally speaking those positions have more impact on a game. I think you can also find more serviceable replacement level players at LB.
Like I said, I’m cool with the Lloyd pick if you think he’s a stud (like I do). Nothing wrong with taking a stud in the 1st round of the draft regardless of position. But it’s also paying 12 million APY and a 3rd rounder in addition
I think the knock on Foye is he is pretty bad in coverage and Lloyd and Muma were pretty good in college in coverage. And some have commented this is showing direction towards Jags running a 3-4 defense.
Yeah I just think it’s a misallocation of resources. I have no issue with the Lloyd pick I think he’s going to be a great all around linebacker.
But you spend 12 million APY on a 2 down linebacker and need to spend a day 2 pick to compliment him, after taking Lloyd with a 1st rounder? I think take Lloyd in the 1st if you like him and then just patch up the spot next to him with cheaper or late round guys and see who wins in training camp. It’s just a lot to invest in one lower value position.
Yeah they’ll play 3-4, like I said I don’t think all three can be on the field at the same time cause you’ll probably have Walker and Allen on the edge positions more often than not. 43 actually makes more sense if you want them all on the field at the same time.
That's definitely a fair assessment. Who do you think should've been grabbed at 70? Or what position in particular? I wanted WR, but the reality was all the WR projected to be starters were snatched up by that time.
Could have gone in a million directions. Travis Jones was my BPA though it seems like the league was lower on him than media. Best WR available was Jalen Tolbert.
The value for off hall linebackers was pretty good, a lot of the guys expected to go in the 2nd fell to the 3rd. But you can’t draft in a vacuum either.
I feel like the money on these short term deals shouldn’t be that big an issue. especially only 12 million. We don’t have a ton of expensive players on our roster and trevor still has 4 yrs of the rookie deal.
I think you hit the nail on the head. A lot of people are saying "well the Jags are so bad, they can pick anything" and that's true only to a degree. We have to remember that you're not only trying to get better but you're trying to get better faster than your peers and the way to do that is to use your resources efficiently.
> Foye for 3 yrs 45 million
That includes the fake money too.
It's really a two year deal, I think around 28 guaranteed. The last year they can cut him for about 4 million dead cap and get 15 million back on their salary cap.
Maybe taking Lloyd/Muma shows they aren't too happy with Oluokun. Could be that he's a classic "good contract year" player.
I woulda taken Brandon Smith there instead. high upside guy
Most of our LB room disappeared recently, so we filled it out. We went BPA at both picks. Can’t complain.
Yep. Seems like good picks to me
I'd be higher on it if they didn't sign Foye Oluokun in FA. I liked the Lloyd pick – he was my LB1 – but Muma just seemed like excess goods.
they’re both very good players so I wouldn’t be upset about it. the last time y’all were good myles jack and telvin smith were playing at pro bowl level. telvin smith was so fun to watch, damn shame he had to be a child predator
Ok I definitely missed a story here.
Looks like he was accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl, pleaded no contest and got 3 years probation.
Isn’t this legal in about 40 states?
you cannot have sex with a 17 year old when your 26. if it’s an 18 year old having sex with a 17 year old then I think it’s a different story
I dont believe so-I think those age bands only apply to people under the given age of consent
That is incorrect. In fact the most common age of consent is 16 in the United States. For more information refer to this map.
I thought he just retired early
He just went nuts.
Excuse me with that final line?
Fuck, I forgot about him
> a child predator
Being in your twenty’s and having sex with a girl who is 17 is creepy and in my opinion morally wrong, but “child predator”? Please. That’s sensationalism and pedantic
well he got released from the jags and arrested for it sooo… unless you wanna call an nfl franchise and the legal system “pedantic”
You knew exactly what you were doing calling a guy who was 25 sleeping with a 17 year old a “child predator”. That’s sensationalism lol
lmao ok idk why ur defending a child predator but whatever
Common sense? I agree it’s morally wrong but you know exactly what people are thinking when they hear “child predator”. A 25 year old sleeping with a 17 year old is not a “child predator” lmfao. What people read when they see child predator is he Karl Malone’d a 12 year old
But you knew that already
ok whatever lmao, please stop replying to me now
Looks like they went best player available. Pretty good choice for a bad team.
They could have had Nakobe Dean then.
Having Lloyd and Dean together would have been unreal.
Or draft Travis Jones and bolster the DL.
They were BPAs and higher rated then Muma
BPA according to who though? If both of them end up logging significant playing time and are upgrades over the current guys on the roster, then they're good picks.
It's actually a little known fact that the coaches and GMs decide who the best BPA is and not Mel Kiper or any of the fans. Some people don't know that.
I alone am the source of all draft information used by the NFL
In the 2021 draft with all the Why didn't the Broncos draft a QB debate, I just simply said....what if George Paton shock horror DID NOT LIKE Justin Fields or Mac Jones.....why would they draft a player they didn't like over a player they loved in PS2?
Nakobe Dean is going to be a good LB but I don’t think he’s the right type of linebacker for the AFC South.
They went 2 “best players” who don’t actually help them win games and don’t help the franchise QB they drafted last year. Can anyone explain how this makes sense?
Linebackers don't help teams in games? That's a new one to me.
They ranked 28th in offensive EPA. 27th in dropback EPA and 25th in rushing EPA. They have arguably the worst offensive attack in football. They had the 21st EPA against the run. And the 31st EPA at stopping the pass. This team needed MUCH more help than 2 top-100 linebackers. They are setting up Trevor Lawrence to fail. It’s very sad to see. I fully expect them to bottom out once again.
Stopping other teams from scoring takes a lot of pressure off an offense. I think you should trust the people running your team. When a team is as bad as the Jags, pretty much any talent is going to help.
Oh good god I’m no Jaguars Fan lmao. That’s not a fate I wish on my worst enemy. I’m just smart enough to recognize the worst team in football 2 years in a row used the majority of their offseason capital on linebackers. Which historically is a bad idea. There just isn’t a way around this.
They drafted the players that they thought were worth the picks, and passed on the others. They got better on defense and there's no way around that.
Some people just love to be contrarians. Unless both of them turn out to be HoFers it's a waste of two picks and even then you probably could do better with mediocre players at other positions for one of those picks. These guys aren't going to revolutionize the Jags defense and they're absurd picks. I hope people remember this shit when we're talking about Trevor Lawrence being a bust in 4 years.
If Trevor is a bust in four years it'll probably be because he panned out like the majority of quarterbacks that get drafted.
LB was a need before Myles going away. Two of them still make sense and Muma was one of the best players in this draft.
This all but confirms the Jaguars are going to play way more 43 defense than anticipated.
1. The LB group entering the draft was barren, the only guy with a true argument to start was Olokun
2. Both Lloyd and Chad muma are both very good LB prospects. Both were top 5 LB prospects and BPA at the time
3. New DC scheme will be based on Todd Bowles system. Which needs versatile LBs to play and also used a lot of different formations which will use them both and Olokun
4. The jags are in a division with Derrick Henry and Jonathan Taylor.
5. The jags for the a long time have struggled to defend TEs, recieving backs and stopping the run. Both Muma and Lloyd excel at that
Point #4 is something too many people outside the AFCS forget. You have to build a team to win your division before you worry about the offenses outside of it. Henry and Taylor are the focal point of your two strongest competitors right now. The rest of the league may be drafting DBs but the AFCS needs to stop the run to succeed.
Taylor and Henry compose 25% of the Jags schedule, they need to win the division to get to the playoffs. They arent getting Wildcard with a stacked AFC
Here me out. What if you stopped them from running the ball by putting up… wait for it… points on offense.
This might be a hot take. But simply changing from Urban Meyer, the worst NfL coach of all time, to Doug Pederson, a well respected and super bowl winning HC, should be at least be a 4-6 point upgrade. Also the WR and TE room are better than last years.
The coaching point is fair, as for the receiver/TE room is it actually better or just more expensive?
Do Zay Jones, Engram, Kirk make that even a top 25 group of receivers in the league? I don’t think so.
Look at the jags starting WRs and TEs the last 5-7 games.
Right now theyre leaps and bounds above that group
Do you believe Shenault, Jones, Jones jr., or Kirk will have 1000 yards receiving this year? Again I’m not trying to bash them. But is the room really much better? The names are better but it’ll rank out as the 27th or below receiver room in the league. This isn’t how you take advantage of rookie QB contracts.
It's the 3rd round and the Jags are a bad football team. They grabbed the best player available. I'm not really sure I understand the question
I'm sorry. I guess it made more sense in my head when writing it out. I'm just curious what you and others thoughts are selecting two LBs and the Jaguars draft in general.
I think they got 2 very good players. Lloyd will step in immediately and Muma should be ready to take over in a year or 2. Ideally you nailed down a pair of starters in the middle of the defense.
I feel like the common phrase that Lloyd is meant to be a Patriot feels good tbh. I always saw Patriots have great LB players during their runs.
They may be playing to use a 3-4
A 3-4 has been the prevailing narrative all offseason after more-or-less shifting to it last season. Admittedly they are not a terribly talented team so adding good players is a priority, but this may indicate Walker and Allen as 4-3 DEs, with the two draft picks and Foye as the LB corps
I figured it would be Lloyd and Muma in the middle with Allen coming off the edge. Bulk up Walker a bit and stick him as a 3-4 edge the same way Watt was used.
I think this makes the most sense, Walker can definitely play 3-4 DE.
Muma and Lloyd/Foye in the middle with the other on the outside with Allen sounds nasty.
Is 3-4 the defense that gets a bad rep? Or is that 4-3?
Neither. They both have their advantages
Jags fan. I have no idea why we took Muma. It has nothing to do with Muma, it’s his position
We signed Foye to a massive deal to play LB in FA. Then we drafted two more off ball linebackers in the early rounds. Good value but we have more holes on this roster than just LB
I'm with you 100%.
Baalke wasted that first pick imo, only time will tell but I do not see Walker as a "Micah Parsons" at all. Desperately need an X receiver and more on the offensive side of the ball and definitely needed a safety. C- or D grade draft for me at best.
The defense needed a linebacker first and foremost. there wasn't a receiver worth taking with the muma pick and I can see why they wanted Loyd. While there are still holes in this team, there is absolutely no chance that they could fill all of them in this draft. Nevertheless Baalke is a huge factor on why the jaguars have such an awful roster. I mean the 2020 draft is easily one of the worst drafts in jaguars history and that should say a lot.
Dave Caldwell was GM during the 2020 draft. Baalke was named GM after Caldwell was fired.
Baalke was already director of player personnel. He had his fingers all over the draft
Didn't they just sign a big LB this free agency
We signed Foye from Atlanta.
Yeah. Thats what I thought.
muma is legit
Muma is very very good
Seems a lot are high on and a lot aren't.
Can’t imagine anyone isn’t high on his actual football abilities. People just don’t like doubling up on ILB.
Muma was BPA when selected.
Except they weren't. Nakobe Dean and Travis Jones were both graded much higher.
Then why’d Dean last until round 3?
Grades very team to team anyways depending on scheme, among other things. Clearly Jags had Muma graded higher, as I’m sure a lot of teams did.
Just look at the Pats. They took a consensus 3rd round guard in the first. The “consensus” before the draft are just “experts” who are guessing. People also thought Willis would go 2nd overall. The consensus pre draft is irrelevant.
All I know is that I’d easily take Muma over Dean. Dean is 5’11 and has a serious injury. He also played with like 10 other NFL draft picks on his defense. Just because Muma played at a smaller school doesn’t mean that he isn’t an excellent prospect.
By who? You?
What makes you think that everyone values players the same. There are no universal player rankings when discussing teams war rooms.
Part of me loves due to how unconventional it was. Both great prospects, looking forward to seeing both on the field.
When you have the Titans, Colts and Houston (who also want to run the ball) ... I see no issue with it.
I’m not sure why people are acting dense and acting like it’s not a legit question.
The Jags let Jack go, then signed Olukun to a big contract. I think that was a bad swap to begin with.
I love Lloyd. He was a top 10 player in this draft for me, so to get him when they did was a great move. I think he’s Micah Parsons light, with the potential to be better in coverage. Great move.
I’ll be upfront, I had a 5th round grade on Muma. I think he’s just a guy, doesn’t do anything exceedingly well but make routine tackles. There were 6 or 7 LBs at least I had ahead of him. To take him in the third is a waste of a pick, even if you think he’s going to be really good. And a third is not something you should waste. People can say it was BPA, but you cannot tell me there wasn’t someone else there they could have taken.
The only justification is that they see Lloyd as more of a pass rusher, but I don’t get that.
No offense, but this off-season is like a prime example of why the Jags are a dumpster fire. Urban Meyer was a symptom, not a cause. I legit feel bad that Trevor Lawrence was saddled with such an awful franchise.
I’m a Bills fan, but I’ve always pulled for the Jags. I was excited when they were an expansion team, and always really loved the Mark Brunell teams, so this isn’t just hate.
> The Jags let Jack go, then signed Olukun to a big contract. I think that was a bad swap to begin with.
I don't think you know how bad Jack was last year.
Jack has been really bad, like bottom 5 positionally bad. He definitely excelled when we had a better defense surrounding him but he never blossomed further after taking over the green dot from Poz which everyone expected he'd excel in. I do know Foya has been pretty bad in coverage though.
I’m convinced anyone who’s take includes letting Myles Jack go is a bad thing doesn’t even watch the Jags and thus have an opinion that is completely uninformed. At that point their entire take is put into question
Jack came out with bad knees and his clock was ticking at the jump. Didn’t follow him last year but any decline should not be at all surprising given his medical history.
How can you call muma in the 3rd a waste of a pick based solely on your grade for him. That was around his average draft position, plenty of people had him mocked higher.
“How can you call Muma a waste simply based on your grade of him?”
“It’s not, but okay.”
Bro, you’re kinda dumb.
It’s not, but okay
based on this comprehensive average of expert mocks he was expected to go in the 2nd.
No you fuckin numbnuts, I’m not arguing that my position on him is lower. Read my other comment again. “Even if you think he’s a good player it’s a bad pick.” Meaning that even if you’re coming at it from the position that he’s going to be a very good player, it still doesn’t make sense to take another LB after you signed one for big money and drafted another in the first.
Slow down and actually read shit before you get outraged.
> Even if you think he’s a good player it’s a bad pick.
Completely disagree with this. It's the 3rd round, not the top 10. If you got a good player with a 3rd rounder, it's a great pick, even if it means Foye becomes expensive depth for one season before he gets cut
If that’s what you were arguing, what did you mean by “it’s not, but okay?”?
Anyways, i don’t buy it being a bad value to take a 2 rd lb prospect in the third. We’ve had a garbage defense for years with one of the worst front sevens. We need a serious injection of talent there. Both lbs we drafted can cover, which isn’t our FA signings strong suit. Lloyd also may be utilized as a blitzer. Also, i don’t see how the money we’re paying our FA is relevant. it’s like 12mil ish a year iirc, which isn’t that much of the cap, especially when lawrence is on the rookie deal, we barely have any expensive players, and the deal will be over by the time we would have to resign the rookies.
I love both selections. They both will benefit the system they play in. We needed LBs bad, win win.
Who do you guess gets the green dot this season?
Foye, the LB we signed from the Falcons. Lloyd will rush the passer and be moved around like a chess piece, Muma will be a classic Mike and take over the green dot in a year or 2.
That makes sense. I'm excited to see how Smoot, Allen and Walker mesh together.
I guess I'll play Devil's advocate - it was not smart at all. First you let Myles Jack go just to give 45 million dollars to Foyesade Oluokun. Even if you think that's an upgrade, on top of that you trade up into the first to get Devin Lloyd, your second linebacker sure, but then trade up again into the 3rd to get Muma. Linebacker is the least important role in the modern day NFL *and* the Jaguars don't run 3 linebacker schemes that often. For a team with so many holes, what's the point of giving up so much draft capital for redundant needs?
I think Jaguars just went BPA for once.. #1 pick can obviously disregard that answer but it seemed like BPA in the FO eyes. Jaguars definitely banking on their FA and injured returning offense personnel to improve.
Lloyd sure, Muma was not BPA
You can definitely make the argument Muma was BPA there. Mocks had him pretty consistently middle of round 2.
Linebackers values are lowered in most divisions but not in the AFCS. They’ve got to build a team to stop Henry, Taylor and I’ll bet a nickel the Texans want to run the ball more too. You first have to win those 6 games before worrying about the rest of the league.
You're in a division with King Henry and Jonathon Taylor... can't really have enough linebackers in the AFC South, plus the draft is such a crap shoot that it's not the worst idea to take a couple shots at finding a few
Lloyd could end up being the best defensive player in this draft so I love the pick, Muma has some developing to do but works well as a more hybrid guy. They both are at different levels and have different rolls so I think it was a great choice.
i think both picks were not good in terms of value
jags gave up way too many picks to trade up
Jags trades so far have given up: No. 33, No. 106, No. 157, No. 180, No. 188, No. 198, and No. 235
We also had way too many picks, 12 rookies aren't gonna make the team , especially our 5 6th and 7th rounders pre-draft. The Lloyd trade was like fine too I don't see any problem with the value there, you can be questionable about the whole business in the 5th round, but I think at the end of the day we looked at the board and didn't really like what we saw, so we turned low value picks this year into more viable ammo for next year. I see no problem with using our picks, and at the end of the day we still had a full seven player draft class.
As a Jets fan I can say I have seen this before. The Jags invested last years #1 overall in Lawrence and have done minimal to support him. They should be drafting WR and OL so he has a fighting chance. While an improved defense will give the offense better starting position, the help is minimal. Unfortunately I think that Lawrence is going to wind up working at Home Depot with Sam Darnold…
I hope not but the Jags should have followed what the Jets are doing with Zach right now. Get the QB right and then worry about defense.
I really like the Jets tools on defense and think with a little better ball control on the offense, they are a solid unit.
We've been supporting him in free agency. Frankly right now our wide out and TE rooms are kinda stuffed, even if they aren't exactly the most talented. I'd agree we maybe could have done more on the line, but I have no problem with Cam Robinson and Walker Little as starting tackles, and Fortner to shore up the inside is a great pick. Maybe I would have liked to see them take more depth there, but the FO was always not prioritizing wide outs this draft, we've seen this coming for weeks. We were ass on both sides of the ball, I got no problems with trying to actually produce any kind of real linebacking core. And after all, Dougy P won a super bowl with minimal wide out talent with Nick Foles at the helm, and the last time the Jags were like a real team was when they had a stellar linebacking core in Telvin Smith Myles Jack and Posluszny. Why not try to recapture some of that magic?
We got a young, ascending WR, and all pro guard, a dynamic TE to go with Arnold, another outside WR, and resigned our starting LT to a decent deal. We also have ETN returning. And we also have a competent, offensive minded coach with a Super Bowl pedigree.
We've done a lot to support Lawrence. This isn't a one year rebuild. We've set ourselves up to have a really good, young defense. Now, we can really focus on our offense next year, since our D will have very few holes.
I personally think both picks were solid, but if anything I think they would've been better off drafting Muma and addressing another position with their second pick... There were still quality players left at multiple positions of need.
As a Bills fan, I wasn't sure what to make of their 3rd rd selection to draft Terrell Bernard a productive but undersized Linebacker from Baylor with some injury concerns. I could see him being very good, but if they needed a LB so badly, they easily could've grabbed Muma, Dean, or several others. Not to mention they could've targeted a top WR/OL in 2nd rd, instead moving back twice and taking RB James Cook.
It’s kind of like what the Bears did. They selected 2 DBs in the second round, both who are excellent values who will likely step in and start immediately.
But, they didn’t do anything to help Justin Fields this year, the late round picks are projects at best. And by the time he has enough help he’ll be up for a monster contract or on his way out of town. Opportunity cost is everything when it comes to rookie QBs.
Both teams will rightly get ripped for the poor management of capital.
I don't know about the Bears weapons but the Jags lost RB1, RB2, TE1 and WR1 during the regular season and the whole Urban toxicity stuff.. FO definitely got him more weapons this season and ETN will be back. The early WR run in the beginning really took all the starter worthy WRs. No 3rd round WR available would realistically even jump Treadwell on the depth chart. Jags defense was putrid though and was flat out embarrassing to watch. So I do understand why the FO went this direction in the draft.
They took both of them for the same reason they took walker over hutch. The jags had them graded the highest and took (ideally?) BPA knowing that one of them will bust but didn't trust their scouts to determine which one
Linebacker room fucking sucks and isn’t deep. Even with Foye coming in, if one of him or Lloyd goes down or gets spelled we don’t have the talent or the versatility ideal for what it looks like we’re gonna do with Caldwell’s system. And besides, both of these guys aren’t really role players, excelling in only box stuffing or blitzing or coverage in particular, they’re extremely versatile and well rounded linebackers that can wear a lotta hats. I know a lotta people seem to think a good linebacking core isn’t worth much these days for whatever reason, but I’m very happy to have a deeper and competitive room shaping up there.
Which is kind of weird because I remember how dominant Kuechly and Davis were at the Panthers. So clearly strong or elite linebackers provide immense value.
I agree that picking Muma was a strange move that I don't completely understand and one I personally wouldn't have made after taking Lloyd in the 1st but I disagree that there was no WR worth taking at that point in the draft. Jalen Tolbert, David Bell, Romeo Doubs, Danny Gray and Calvin Austin III all would've been worthy of one of their two 3rd round picks in my opinion, but especially the first three.
On the Lloyd pick, I absolutely loved it. I think Lloyd can immediately be an impact player for them and has the potential to be an All Pro caliber player sometime in the future, possibly very soon. He also brings the ability to rush the passer off the edge so he has position flex which is always a plus. I had him as my LB1 and as a top 25-30 player overall. Him, Josh Allen and Travon Walker are poised to cause havoc for opposing offensive linemen for years to come.
On the Muma pick, he is definitely a really good player and considering where he was ranked on my board and many other boards, this was a steal of a pick. I've seen him compared to Sean Lee and I like that comparison and I've also seen him graded/ranked higher than Lloyd in some places which I don't agree with but it shows what alot of people thought of him. I personally had him as a top 5 LB and a top 35-40 player overall, he's a guy who can contribute from the jump and be a starter early on in his career.
Muma has great size and length (6'3, 239 lbs with 32 inch arms and a 6'4 wingspan), he has good speed (4.67 40 yard dash), he's very physical and was one of the best tacklers in the draft, he's very competitive with great hustle, plays through the whistle and he had consistently good production in college (For his career, he had 33 games played, 145 solo tackles, 19 TFL, 5.5 sacks, 3 Ints, 2 he returned for TDs, 1 FF and 2 FR). He's a former Safety and he plays like it, he's very good against the run and he has good athleticism.
I think you should be happy with the player but you also are right in questioning it as well. After already picking a LB in the 1st, they had more pressing needs like WR and OL but it's very possible that Jacksonville just had him as the highest graded player remaining on their board which I wouldn't argue too much with.
I would 100% agree on selecting someone else other than Muma if there was a wide receiver that realistically was starter worthy. I don't think any receiver available at 70 would even surpass Treadwell on the depth chart. Muma will provide immediate results and our new DC has a history with churning great linebacker play and from his mentor.
Fair enough, all of the WRs I mentioned are probably not immediate starters but more like really good #3 or depth receivers. I still think a few of them should've been in consideration though, particularly Tolbert, Bell and Metchie. I also think an OL like Bernhard Raimann would've been a nice pick. Overall though, I love Muma as a player and I believe he'll likely be a very good rotational player with the Jags from the jump with the ability and potential to be a starter alongside Lloyd in short order.
That’s the thing, like, the only thing that fits the bill for us is someone that can like up outside and stretch the field. Granted we wanted Metchie, but he was already long gone. I would have quite liked Doubs or maybe Bell in the fifth or sixth… but in the third? When they probably are gonna be competing to even see the field with our wide out 4 or 5? The value isn’t good, the best ones available are all slot guys that we don’t need if we’re committing to Shenault. Raimann is a suspect option to me, because he strikes me primarily as a project tackle, when we kinda already have one of those in Little. Muma has a fair argument for BPA at that point, and I think there’s also merit to double dipping with two of the best at the position in the draft with a room as bad as ours. In any case though, yeah, the best thing about it is that he can undoubtedly come in and immediately contribute at a high level.
A lot of people are saying BPA, but this just isn’t true. I like Muma and Lloyd fine but to pretend they were the best player for a team who just went consecutive years with the worst record in football is wrong. They took T. Law #1 last year and instead of building around him in this draft like any sane team would do, they took 2 separate off-ball linebackers top-100. Even took an RB in the 5th to make it even funnier. Absolutely horrendous drafting.
I mean the Jaguars got TLaw three new receiving targets and ETN will be back from injury and the same for JRob later down the line. They also signed one of the better guards in the league when healthy and resigned Cam Robinson. The Jaguars defense was a dumpster fire last year and it's been greatly improved through signings and the draft. I don't think you watched a single Jaguar game if you think a ton of capital wasn't needed in defense. Also, both RBs are coming off major injuries and we needed to draft another RB.
It’s fine to invest in the defense. It’s less fine to invest a massive contract, and 2 top-100 picks into arguably the most replaceable position on said defense. They over paid for 3 middling receivers instead of using premium capital on one of the deeper receiver classes. I just don’t see the vision.
The WR class was extremely top heavy and no WR available at 27 is worth it over Devin Lloyd. Muma is going to immediately contribute and the remaining WR at 70 are not worth the pick. I personally rather they moved up during the blitz for WRs in the 50s but it is what it is. We already have a stout DB core that is above average. The defensive line is kind of meh and I just have to see how it works. Our TE in Dan Arnold and Engram are better than what most teams have. The deals are also basically two year deals so I'm not too worried about the current WR group even if it's just average.
For a few years now linebacker and safety have been viewed as the most replaceable position on defense, just look at the average contracts and draft position. Obviously there are exceptions such as the ones you listed (though listing Parsons is an odd choice over guys like Fred Warner, Parsons is best as a pass rusher) linebackers are generally the beneficiaries of good d-line play, much like RBs with o-line. So it’s just not that worth it to draft them high or pay them a lot. Better to invest at premium positions especially with a QB on a rookie deal.
Of all the position groups to be average at on defense, linebacker is the one you want. Good pass rushers, cover guys, and interior dlinemen cost a lot because they make tangible differences in opposing game plans. Very rarely do you have to game plan around a linebacker in today’s league.
I want the Jags to do well but they are a dumpster fire of a team. How many first round busts have they had the past decade? 9?
Future Prediction: Nakobe Dean will make more Pro Bowls then Travon Walker.
Guess who was available at pick 70?
Or even Travis Jones to bolster the DL.
There were reports of a battle between Pederson and Baalke for #1 overall.
Baalke won with Walker, but Pederson wanted Ekwonu or Evan Neal.
They should have drafted either OL #1 - why?
Because that pick would have bolstered their two First Round picks last year Etienne and Lawrence.
Walker will be a bust. He did not produce under single man coverage all year and with all those Georgia weapons on D.
He was NEVER double teamed.
He was simply a combine highlight reel and Jags got bedazzled into picking him.
They needed to address their OL.
Broken Brandon Scherff cannot help their OL for more then 4 games before he gets hurt.
Jags get #1-3 overall next year. Congrats Shahid!
>He did not produce under single man coverage all year
He didn't even get that chance. He rushed 1 on 1 with no blitzes or stunts 37 times. The entire year. Hutchinson would have done that in 2 weeks
Another j allen imo but out of the 2 lloyd muma muma better imo
Muma will be a steeler at some point in his career
Whatever. We’ll get Jaxon Smith-Njigba 5th overall next year.
It’s a pretty bad use of resources when considering the capital spent when teams are going nickel and dime 80% of the time.
I don’t like Muma anyway because he plays soft, IMO, but if he was the best guy on their board, so be it.
Sorry, not a Jags fan. But I saw the question about available receivers, and I love love love David Bell, who fell to the Browns with the 99th pick. I was so glad he ran a slow 40time at the combine, because the tape says he's unstoppable, and I wanted my Eagles to grab him (at least, that's what i wanted before getting AJ Brown). I think Bell will be one of a million cases of the dopest wide receivers coming out of the 3rd to 5th round and running a 4.5/4.6, because they've already shown for several years that they get great production without being the fastest on the field. Just my $.02.