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NajeeAli

I'll give you my straightforward male perspective. Gonna be honest bro, I skimmed this. I understand you're coming from a non-Muslim background, but Islamically we don't consider the relationship "committed" until the marriage agreement has been signed. Until then, it's free game to court as many as we want. Second, scenarios like this are part of the reason why her older male guardian is supposed to be involved as soon as you declare romantic interest. It's formalized to minimize BS. Her Dad would have held her accountable for entertaining exes and randos on Insta. He would have held you accountable for being non-committal to his daughter. Sorry you had to experience this. You'll encounter less BS if you make it formal from the beginning next time. Do not entertain women who avoid formalizing the relationship from the start. It goes the other way as well, for the ladies.


throwawaymuslim58

100% agreed. It's crazy how many scenarios I've read on here which could have been SO easily avoided if people just followed what Islam says. Wali's involvement from Day 1 is a must.


snipetheheart

I think both of you are wrong. She was wrong to take advantage of you and you are wrong to drag out this saddening relationship for so long. I don’t think any of you are interested in each other. Good potentials or lovers take out time for each other starting from day 1. I’ve rarely seen relationships succeed where things went bad during the early days. But then again, I’m single. I’m abit harsh in this aspect, I don’t give second chances cause there’s no point if you don’t like me at the start. Maintaining a marriage is harder than maintaining an early relationship so long term that person will lose attraction for me eventually I dont think you like the lady enough cause you still mention your ex. The lady doesn’t like you either cause she keeps mentioning other males. Move on. Try to be more dedicated to the next person you’ll court for marriage. Same for her.


ControlSpiral

I don't think that he is wrong here, when she agreed to all of this through their "compromises" as he needed time to get through this properly. It doesn't justify her lying all the time, as there is a difference between doing something behind someone's back with you lying about things and between you agreeing to something, but not having the courage to address that problem properly like an adult. However, you aren't wrong that they don't really seem into this anymore or rather he might have been into this back then with her being distant, but now the only thing being different is that their positions are flipped with him feeling distant.


snipetheheart

I don’t think he’s malicious but he dragged out the relationship too long. Talks of marriage should be done within a year or two. If you can’t achieve that, there’s no point of that relationship. That’s what I meant by wrong


ControlSpiral

Then she needs to talk about it like an adult? You can't pin this on the man for "dragging it out", when she agreed to it? She is however free to leave. It isn't that hard to say that things are taking too long and that you don't want a part in it. I will even go as far to say the following and I am sorry for this, but if you can't address any misgivings that you have like a proper adult, which is something literal children even manage to do, then how can you be taken seriously? Marriage should be the last thing on your mind if this is too hard to do if I am honest, but I digress.


throwawaymuslim58

She can definitely give some of the blame to the guy for clearly dragging their relationship out.


04-05-2005

yep im not exactly defending the girl but i know some muslim parents really pressure you to marry quick and with him just waiting around for YEARS and all that potential pressure from parents maybe thats why she lost interest in him


throwawaymuslim58

Yeah, tho saying that definitely fault on her side too


ControlSpiral

They had an agreement about waiting a year. It wasn't "years" from how I understood it. It was only after the fact that it turned into the weird dynamic that they have now. However, if she got pressured like that, then she can still be an adult to say that she is being pressured by her own parents. Again the infantilisation of women is not cute.


ControlSpiral

Then you say that with the wordy words and not make compromises, where you agree to wait a year. I am sorry for the snarky comment, but I find the infantilisation of women that I sometimes see on the sub and that is being cutely put down as "being protective of our sisters" just not amusing.


throwawaymuslim58

Sorry i don't understand what you mean


ControlSpiral

He isn't to blame if only for the simple fact that she agreed upon his timeline. She isn't to blame for wanting to leave, but for not being able to be honest by either addressing her misgivings i.e. that it is too long of a time to wait for her or by her just telling the truth that she can't do this. Instead she kind of dropped the ball the way she did it.


Bomborobom

Man…. I just don’t think you guys are right for each other. Like… what are you even looking for? I mean this is the sincerest way possible…. Do you even like her? Just sounds like you guys are holding onto something that once was but really shouldn’t be. With the attributes you’ve mentioned, is she the kind of woman you’d want to raise your kids?


haboobi2311

I do love want to marry her, in 2018 my heart was clouded and bitter from my ex that used me. But since we started again after the long break she took, my heart has been in it 100% but I never felt it reciprocated. After a year of feeling that it wasn’t mutual, now I do feel like she loves me and is reciprocating but I ended up finding that stuff out from the past. So all of the qualities I do like about her are up in question because I feel like I lived a lie this whole time.


Fragrant_Sell2601

She was in it a 100% and you weren’t ready. Now you are in it and she is not ready. Looks like she still hadn’t gotten over her ex when you came back and also there is that disadvantage that you have that you were starting from negative territory second time around. Honestly would be best for both parties to part ways and take this relationship a lesson on how you f up relationships. Next time try to make it halal as soon as possible. Not saying marry her the next day but at least avoid the physical relationship until after nikkah. Any other way I have seen mostly go bad. Salams and good luck!


Soggy_Garbage_2829

sorry for the late replies but based on on all the scenarios she's a narcissist....which is why she kept deflecting. never owns up to her mistakes and is always ur fault. Hope things got better Akhi


smugz12

She is just keeping you for backup, when a relationship doesn't work she comes running back to you.


Tiny_City_9221

This! And for validation


wafflesloveme

Walk away. This is said with the utmost love and best intentions. Its hard to hear. But i think deep down you know its true. I think your behaviour in the beginning led her to some realisations about the relationship. Seems like she felt aggrieved and confused. Thats no excuse for her continued behaviour. I don't think you are compatible at all. It sounds like you both saw and felt something with each other and because of your religious views have looked to marriage as the purpose of the relationship. Reality has hit her much sooner than it did you. She may not realise it but shes subconsciously acting out whatever she felt you confirmed about yourself when you essentially broke things off. You then didn't even reach out for ages, that gave her time to either learn and grow or for the negative emotions to fester and the better of her. Sounds like the latter prevailed in this instance. If she did have care or respect for you. Its gone. It left when guys ended things in the beginning. Her trust is broken and its not come back, nor do i think it will. She also seems to have lost a bit of respect for herself. You mentioned she got to the point of ideating suicide due to haraam. Yet here she is jumping from entertaining man to man seemingly blase about it. It sounds like you suffered emotional trauma from your ex in the beginning. You didn't take a chance to breathe and learn from it. You did what most do and jumped into another serious relationship pretty quickly. At some point perhaps subconsciously at first you didn't take steps to progress towards marriage cause it wasn't something you were ready for. Your actions show this, you were one foot in one foot out. Then when things finished you had time to reflect and work on yourself. But sometimes its too late for the other person. The damage is done. Its not intentional but it still happened. Probably what makes it worse. Sounds like her behaviour is now a mixture of punishing you and herself for everything that went down. For both your sakes. Walk away. You know her best. Perhaps write her out the reasons why and own upto what your mistakes were. Let her know the reasons why so she can have some closure. You know each other best but where you both are currently its not gonna work. Forcing it running back and forth its making it worst not better. It sounds like you weren't healed, jumped in with her. Because of your emotional trauma clouding your judgement, your fear etc whatever else. You either didnt communicate or didn't even realise what was happening until after you had time to reflect. Once you did. You realise what you had and wanted to make it work. But still left it didnt reach out, waited for her. This to her probably further reinforced the narrative that you didn't care for her and made her feel used or worthless as she was in this for awhile and then you seemingly walked away and didn't even care. Now to make amends and fearing you lost out on something good you went jumped back in. But again you sound like you have changed but she wasn't the same person. You both stuck to no timeline and your communication is all over the place. Some parts of your post indicate your stuck in the past, idealising the version of her you regretted letting go of. But she's not that person anymore. She needs therapy and so do you. You both need to walk away lest you become a means of destruction for one another. Use this to become closer to Allah and try to remind her of the same. It doesn't make you the villain nor does she have to be one. It can just be a case of two people struggling to navigate trauma and reactions to that. Doesn't mean you have to wipe away the memories or hate each other. You can still be two people who cared and possibly loved each other. But leave each other for the sake of Allah. If Allah wills you will be brought back together. But don't stay stuck in this fantasy. Just leave for yourself and for her. Your reward will be with your Rabb. Remember when leaving anything for the sake of Allah its gonna be one of your greatest tests. Just repeatedly ask Allah for aafiyah. I hope what I've said did not hurt your feelings or cause you unnecessary pain i spoke with the best of intentions. May Allah grant you both the best of this world and the akhirah brother.


haboobi2311

Thank you for taking the time to write all of this. Me not healing from what my ex did, really messed with her in 2018. We started our relationship off talking about my ex and we shared traumas so that’s how we connected. But i was foolish and i was still hung up on what happened and let that leak into the relationship and made her feel like she wasn’t enough. So I definitely agree I ruined things in our first year together. I never reached out to her because she blocked me and didn’t give me closure she just vanished. However since we started in 2020 again I was healed from my past and I’ve been in it 100% with her. I just never felt it reciprocated until now in summer of 2022. Everything was flowing so well and we were going to get married in a few months but then I found those texts and everything turned upside down now. I feel so deceived because in this timeline of 4 years I haven’t dated or touched another woman, I’ve only been dedicated to her but it was easy for her to do so and also string me along. The qualities she possessed, I was 100% confident in and it’s what made me trust her throughout all of this doubt. It’s weird but despite all of what happened, when I still look into her eyes I still feel purity and that my home belongs in them. I don’t know if I’m being foolish and wanting to fix things no matter what to build a stronger relationship or if I’m building something on the wrong foundation.


wafflesloveme

I understand. I know what that feels like. Is it not possible for you to just let her know. The issue here is not your feelings for her. Its can you get past this? Can she get past this? Even if you have worked on yourself. She doesn't seem to be in the same place. Is pre martial counselling a thing? Is that something you can try. This may hurt but marrying her and then potentially divorcing because the past is still haunting you both will be ten times more painful. Step back from the situation a little mentally and emotionally. Communicate i cant stress this enough just let her know what your concerns are this will have to be done very carefully though otherwise she may see it as you backing out again. Her blocking you yeah that's a sign of how much pain she was in. If you see if from that side. I think the best thing for both of you. Raw, honest conversation. Like really raw. Without blaming. Just mercy and understanding. Really take time for both of you to decide if you actually want this and you're not clinging onto remnants of the past what ifs. Seek Allahs guidance. Include your families in this and limit the intimacy you both share. In order to make clear decisions. You are both clouded emotionally.


haboobi2311

We’ve been looking into muslim pre-marital counseling but the issue is she wants something anonymous because of the haram we did and I can’t find such services. I have let her know my concerns but her instant reaction pushes me further when she tries to justify it and say I never believed in gf/bf that if I talked to a sheikh they’d agree with her. But it’s like why did you tell me we were and acted like it? It just feels like a cover up from my end. Right now we’re having raw conversations without getting upset at each other and trying to find counseling.


wafflesloveme

She's afraid of judgement. I guess maybe share that this is also scary for you. Women feel shame differently. Not sure i made a mistake here as im typing i can't see your full post. But i think you said you're a revert. If it was me in her shoes not only would i feel the shame, the guilt but id probably think theyd view you differently as you're a revert but whats her excuse? Not saying they would, just that could be in her mind. I think having the right conversations is a good start. But also be prepared that this could result in an outcome that you don't want. Its also long and incredibly tiring emotionally and mentally. You both have to decide if its something you want. If you really let your guard down to her show her at your most vulnerable and tell her why you're choosing to do this despite it being incredibly hard, because she is important and this is important to you. It may be hard to be vulnerable but walking away without trying is harder. Don't pressure her just be honest. Tell her you're gonna give her time to really think about it. If its something she wants and is willing to do too. Explain how it will benefit you both. But take pressure of her. You don't want her to freak out and lash out to make a decision she might regret later. Make it known that you care and then give her time and space. Ask her to consult Allah during this time. Both of you sincerely seek Allahs guidance. Istikhara etc.


throwawaymuslim58

This should be top comment.


teedramusa

I think a major part of you is there to blame because you insist on western concepts which frankly don't work with Muslim people. There's a level of sincerity when embarking a pursuit of someone, where your actions are imbued with some form of righteousness. And trying to go against the grain means that you deny the wisdom in the Islamic process. Like personally I don't mind dating for a year but at least in the same vein my parents will know by the 2nd week that I'm seeing someone, and so will my friends, they'll know about my intentions to marry and the timeline I've formulated for the Nikkah date. I understand that you have your own terms of defining how you are likely to be drawn towards a person and I don't think you need to forsake all of them, just that try to align them through the Islamic process. Secondly there's this pattern of women particularly that will declare that "we are never exclusive, until we are married" and I got those vibes from here: > She said it's her Islamic right to have multiple suitors and her heart wasn't in it all of 2021 Imma tell you to save yourself and just walk away from these people. I feel it's a form of self-preservation due to traumatic experiences from men (this includes conditioning from perceived treatment of their patriarchs and brothers), where the problem in not auditing your methods of self-preservation is that you end up hurting everyone else by protecting yourself like that. I think the ship has sailed for both of you, you've gone through your trial by fire and you'll need to grieve a bit before moving onto the next one. She probably will have her own trials, just make sure you're not a part of it, again


jaeissassy

Hey. I think the reason for all this chaos in your life was the wrong approach you took. Most might not agree with me but dating and getting to know the person before marriage(using the wrong way by talking to her for months in the absence of her mahram)? No bro, not the right thing. It sure is the new normal but will lead to stuff like this. I’d advise you to get over your exes and move on. And try finding someone in the future using the right approach. Also, it was not meant to be. If she was written for you it’d have worked out. Take the lesson and try your best to move on.


ComparisonNo2984

just move on lol


Ironmonger3

How is this complicated? You were just a backup all this time and she didn't respect you as a man. She came back to you each time only when it fell down with her other suitors and he didn't come to as her parents for marriage. You were always so close and so easy to get back. Never saying no. Now she has exhausted all her other options so she of course feel way more serious because she realize you're the best she can get and that's because of your emotional attachment to her. Be a man, walk away, repent to Allah for your sins and seek a sister that fears Allah and do the right process with her inshallah. Your story has so many redflags that you're going to ruin your life if you go through with it


Confident_Ad693

this might be tough to hear but wallah this is the truth. you’re suffering from tunnel vision. this woman clearly does not value you and is using you as a back up and for validation. it seems like you are suffering from attachment issues and comfort. i promise you when you put yourself out there and work on your imaan and build healthy habits and hobbies you will look back at your previous actions with disgust because its a little pathetic akhi. forgive yourself and stop wasting time you will never get back. there is literally millions of God fearing good women in the world. learn your lessons from this situation and keep it pushing. it won’t be easy but you will be a better man and will thank yourself in the near future. Allah changes the conditions of a people or a person (in this case) when they are willing to change themselves. so focus on yourself, heal, forgive and level up akhi. wa salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu. may Allah guide us all.


Asalaf-mia

First of all let go of past trauma from your ex, you cannot move on with bitter feelings someone else has put in you and expect another person to deal with that, you need to deal with them first and heal. Number two she sounds like she isn’t practising, Islamic view is you should deal with one proposal at a time speaking to men is not right especially if you have agreed with someone to take things foward, yes before you agree you can speak to people and see which one you would like to take foward. Also you cannot have this mindset of dating, there is no Islamic basis for this unless her mahrem is present. You cannot star with haram and expect happiness in the end. Finally too much has happened u both done wrong and more so her for lying and deceiving you, I don’t see this working out in the near future as you will always have doubt in your mind especially when someone has continually lied and broken the trust. Try to heal from this, better yourself as a Muslim stop freemixing, and look for spouse who fears Allah and does things properly.


ControlSpiral

I am sorry, but how are you exactly to blame for those first years? You were incredibly upfront to her and (supposedly) you guys "compromised" on certain things. Furthermore, I don't see how her lying to you feels justified in the light of your honesty? Sure, she is allowed to talk to multiple suitors Islamically, but she sounds rather hypocritical, as she is "supposedly committed to you", but then gets up in arms every time that you call her out on it by trying to shift the blame for her behaviours unto you? She also sounds rather self-centered in how she deflects and gaslights you when confronted with her lies? Once more, there is not really an Islamic concept of an "engagement", besides some vague promise that you are both "taken", but that again doesn't justify her lies. She should have just been up front about it with you. It is no wonder (to me personally) that you feel like you can't trust her, because she keeps lying to you over and over again. Her playing her "cold/hot" or "hard to get" games aren't very mature behaviours either, then her not feeling "validated" enough or you not being serious enough falls rather empty, when you went out of your way to do all those things for her and even have shown some measure of care for her family is also incredibly unfair of a position to take?


Plenty-Animator-3372

You're both made for each other. Two sides of the same coin.


[deleted]

I believe that therapy would be great for you. Also, karma goes against islam, so try to remove that from your life.


Klutzy_Speaker

Salam! Please avoid exposing your sins and maybe talk to a sheikh or imam for advise.


Weak_Company4067

i’ll be honest, don’t do things a husband would do if you aren’t married. live and learn, may Allah make it easy for you both.