By - throw-away-mm
I struggle to see what is actually good about your wife? Not arguing doesn't mean the marriage is good. At this point with no intimacy and no outings together, no basic emotional bonding, you don't have a marriage. You've gone above and beyond for an extremely disrespectful woman, who lied to you- she told you she wanted kids before marriage and then again after the ultimatum and still isn't respecting that.
At this point she is married to her work not you. Don't put yourself down on your looks and think there's absolutely noone else out there- that is putting your wife on a pedestal and quite frankly she is anything but a catch from the way she has treated you.
Marriage isn't about you being 'grateful' to someone you perceive as out of your league for marrying you. It's a partnership. A friendship. A strong, loving bond, where both spouses are given their *due rights* and treated with respect. By the sounds of it, she is anything but and in your eyes if you're so bad, why did she chose to marry you? Honestly you've found out clearly here that looks aren't everything- while she may be good looking, what has that brought you?
Honestly brother you deserve better.
This comment right here. May you find a wife who respects you, as a person, OP.
I just wanna give you a big hug and say thank you for putting in tremendous effort to save your marriage. Bless your soul.
And I'm really sorry your wife doesn't see how wonderful you are. Maybe you could write a letter to her abt how heartbreakingly sad and difficult this all has been for you.
Wishing you the best. Allah set test us with many trials. May allah bless you with happiness in this dunya and in the hereafter.
Ma shaa Allah you are putting so much effort for your wife. Any woman should dream to have someone so attentive.
But honestly you need to wake up!!! You are basically an indentured slave for her. You are basically like her slave who pays for everything. She is USING YOU. what she is doing is totally haram and is NOT how an Islamic marriage is supposed to be.
- you pay for everything
- she’s not even intimate with you
- doesn’t recognise your desire to have children
- you do all the housework
Divorce her and find someone who respects you and wants to treat you as a husband, not a slave. Plenty of women would love a husband who wants to the same things as you, including having children, and will appreciate you and treat you as a husband, not a slave.
If she is willing to repent and stop treating you as a slave, maybe give her a second chance but don’t hold your breath. I know you’re afraid to be alone but rn you just have a parasite using you, not a real wife.
You’re not getting kids you’re not getting intimacy what are u even getting from this relationship honesty? Lol. She’s the one profiting because she’s not doing duties of a wife and keeping her income but making u pay for everything. Either she changes or I would leave
For real, she's just using him. Imagine having a guy who does all the chores, let's you have all the money, doesn't bother you with kids or anything else. TBH she just wanted to have her 'freedom' and marriage was the gate. I got a feeling that she planned all this from the beginning. He already gave her second chance but 1 year passed and the situation became worse. I wouldn't be surprised if she has already seen someone else if you know things go seperate.
I don’t understand how men fall for this, I genuinely don’t. I’m so down bad to get married, like down bad down bad, but I can’t right now given my circumstances, but even I, would never be in a situation like this. I have enough self respect to rather be alone than be used like this
1) He wasn't getting any proposals so he must have thought just getting married is enough rather than marrying to a great person.
2) He must have been infatuated. She thought he's vulnerable and knew how to make him say yes to everything and ignore his requests.
3) What exactly she need all that money for? This is the real question. Doesn't she trust him from the start? Like take any human, without their goals they don't feel the need to make big money. If he's paying for everything and you don't have much to do then why you need to go agressive in working for a promotion? And even to reject having a family, so how important this job must be to her?
u/throw-away-mm lawyer up and get out of this ASAP. The person is literally using you. You might lose a chance of having a family.
I’m not judging him either I legit pray he’s able to find happiness. I just hope I don’t become super desperate when I get older :(
She's committed to her work. Not you. Not having kids. It's going to keep happening as long as you think you can make her change if you only did *this* and *that*. Thinking you can change and manipulate the situation is the trap here. She just swats every effort you make. And it works.
My advice is the rip the band-aid and make it clear what the future options she has. If she is willing to make cocrete changes, give her that chance. However I caution you into accepting her miserably agreeing to have kids. It will borne more problems.
1.Get a good lawyer
3. Start finding someone else ASAP, and try get married soon. Don’t waste time depressed or upset.
You’re not ‘ugly’ or not a catch and she’s certainly not ‘out of your league’. She sounds a terrible wife tbh. You can do much better and deserve to. You’ve put in a huge amount of effort and patience and received nothing in return.
Get rid. If she wants to spend her life earning money that’ll eventually go to her siblings children upon her death then let her waste her life.
You want a family and children and that’s much more than 250k.
Don’t let this greedy person destroy your dreams.
Also be prepared for a fight. Greedy people always want what’s not theirs. When my first wife asked for my parents house (not even mine) to be valued and considered as part of the settlement I got ruthless and she ended up losing 10k to her lawyers while I walked away with my house, everything I earned, jewellery and 1k bill.
She wanted half but ended up losing a lot of jewellery.
I bet she regretted by original offer of her walking away with her earnings and any gifts received.
Her career is her ticket out of this marriage and she’s keeping you on the burner until she can seamlessly jump into her “new life”. Sorry man. Jobs are opportunities and she’s taking an “opportunity”.
Wow…. She is really missing out and is taking you for granted. This is so so wrong. She doesn’t respect you or want what you want. There’s tons of women that are as qualified and make as much money as her and treat their husbands with respect, dignity, and honesty. Her delaying you wanting to have kids isn’t right. You have rights in your marriage just like how she has her rights. You’ve respected hers and she doesn’t seem to respect yours. That’s not how marriage works. It’s a give and take. She doesn’t seem to want to acknowledge you have needs and wants. Her career (sorry if this isn’t a good take) should be second to her responsibilities as a wife and a partner. Not just because that’s what you need but because there are commandments from Allah on how as Muslims our marriages are supposed to go. I was married to someone who put their job over me and let me tell you if they did it once they will continue to do it. And I wouldn’t recommend a spouse that chases after this dunya if they aren’t aware of their religious responsibilities. And please don’t knock yourself down. Allah created you, just the way you are. Don’t think that just because you’re not conventionally attractive that you’re not worthy of a fulfilling and loving marriage. Please save your time and energy.
I am so sorry to hear about this. You've put in so much effort into your marriage and you deserve better. Even if she agreed to have children, could you see her being the mother of your children?
This is so sad.
Please get a good lawyer ASAP. You fulfilled your duties for an Islamic marriage but she didn’t fulfil hers. Try and see if you can get back some of your expenses, especially if you have written proof that she agreed to starting a family but kept delaying it.
Oh man. That really sucks. There’s a lot more issues than her not wanting kids. She’s refusing couples therapy so it doesn’t seem like she cares about saving the relationship. I’m sorry you wasted 5 years
My word of advice is use divorce as a last resort. It’s hard, painful, exhausting, costly, etc.
But in the end, if you’ve tried and tried, which it seems like you have, do a separation for maybe a few months and see what happens.
Ngl…having intimacy once every quarter is very unhealthy. Look after yourself and definitely try the separation.
Wow, that's some effort and credit to you, she's not interested in anything but the job, sorry to say but she's talking advantage of your giving nature, how about an ultimatum of getting families involved instead, awkward as it might be, it's still worth a shot to save things
Sometimes after we tried our best to make things better divorce is the best option. She doesn’t want to do therapy because she knows she is in the wrong. She will most likely not want to go to religious counseling either.
The right to intimacy is the right of both spouses which she is denying you. Right to children is also the right of both spouses which she is denying you.
As a last time to try to fix things you can again explain to her exactly how you feel and state you need intimacy this many times a week and need to start having children should you continue to be with her.
And also get a good lawyer , you need to get compensated for the work you put in the relationship , family will try to patch up things but it dosent work and also I work in IT and also a lot of the female managers I work with or who are really up the ladder tend to be divorced or just dog or cat moms , very independent
What have your females coworkers got to do with anything lmao?
I believe he is just pointing out his personal observation of highly-career oriented women tend to have failed relationships or none at all. Which I have personally noted as well, but again these are just personal observations. And the same could be probably said for guys.
Or maybe it could be said that men are threatened by highly career-orientated women due to their fragile masculinity but no one seems to draw that conclusion.
I don’t believe we’re getting the fully story from OP, there’s definitely some parts that are left out to slightly change the narrative. Like you’re telling me that you’ve been going to the gym to make yourself physically healthy and started grooming routines to make yourself attractive but you’re also worried about being rejected for being ugly? You maintain the whole household and do all the cooking and cleaning and think women won’t want you? Interesting…
Spouses are allowed to change their mind about wanting children. Clearly his wife has made her choice so OP needs to cut his losses or change his own mind which obviously isn’t what he wants. I also think that the wife has felt pressured by this subject after reading this “I couldn’t tell my family about the details since it would break their heart. And they are surprisingly patient on the grandchildren thing but they really wanted to have them.” Like what even? My parents have never mentioned grandchildren to me but it sounds like way too many parents have this obsession over something that isn’t really any of their business, especially in Desi culture. People be having kids just for grandkids which is whackkkk.
This whole thing just reads like “I did everything right but wife did everything wrong” but in actuality relationship issues are more complicated than this but that’s just my opinion. OP needs to get divorced or accept not having children and both of those are on him. But the wife should be communicating her feelings and thoughts on the matter but for some reason hasn’t and I personally think it is majorly due to fear of not conforming to expectations.
>Or maybe it could be said that men are threatened by highly career-orientated women due to their fragile masculinity but no one seems to draw that conclusion.
>I don’t believe we’re getting the fully story from OP, there’s definitely some parts that are left out to slightly change the narrative. Like you’re telling me that you’ve been going to the gym to make yourself physically healthy and started grooming routines to make yourself attractive but you’re also worried about being rejected for being ugly? You maintain the whole household and do all the cooking and cleaning and think women won’t want you? Interesting…
This is unfair of you to say. I agree, some men do get threatened by it but it doesn't seem to be the case here. He's never asked her to contribute with her salary, he gave her so much time (more than she deserves frankly) to get used to her job and to get a promotion. OP has gone above and beyond by being wholly supportive, as you should be.
When you've always felt unattractive, it's can be hard to believe you are, even when countless people tell you. You're being quite harsh and perhaps OPs self-esteem is low to the point where he doesn't feel he's doing good enough. He's been stuck in a marriage where he's done absolutely everything he can to be the best husband. If his own wife who he married and loves doesn't appreciate that, he can't imagine what other women might think.
>Spouses are allowed to change their mind about wanting children. Clearly his wife has made her choice so OP needs to cut his losses or change his own mind which obviously isn’t what he wants. I also think that the wife has felt pressured by this subject after reading this “I couldn’t tell my family about the details since it would break their heart. And they are surprisingly patient on the grandchildren thing but they really wanted to have them.” Like what even? My parents have never mentioned grandchildren to me but it sounds like way too many parents have this obsession over something that isn’t really any of their business, especially in Desi culture. People be having kids just for grandkids which is whackkkk.
Absolutely they can but his wife should've spoken up as soon as possible. She's old enough to get a job and be married. She's old enough tell her/his parents that she isn't interested in having any children. Or at least keep details to a minimum for them. She can't even tell her own husband though? What kind of marriage is this?
I agree, he needs to cut his losses.
>This whole thing just reads like “I did everything right but wife did everything wrong” but in actuality relationship issues are more complicated than this but that’s just my opinion. OP needs to get divorced or accept not having children and both of those are on him. But the wife should be communicating her feelings and thoughts on the matter but for some reason hasn’t and I personally think it is majorly due to fear of not conforming to expectations.
You're right, we only have one side of the story. All I can see is someone whose tried their best and it's not worked out. He's been too nice. She's taken advantage and not communicated enough. But I don't believe this excuse of fear of not conforming to expectations from family. She could at least tell her husband, someone you should trust completely. He's been supporting her for years and it's the least she could do.
Actually a lot of women draw that conclusion. It’s actually always the go to reason whenever a career oriented women can’t keep a man. I’m sure there are men that are actually threatened, but I never understood this and think that threatened is the wrong word. It’s just that traditional men don’t find that attractive because they subscribe to relatively traditional roles, which is perfectly fine imo. It’s the same reason why many women wouldn’t find attractive a feminine man. But no one says your threatened by a feminine man.
In any case, clearly OP has some self image and esteem issues. I’ve always worked out and done house chores, and I’m worried about being ugly and no one wanting me as well tbh, I don’t think thats really unsurprising about OPs story. And the whole story is one sided so we are def missing the ‘whole’ story here.
Completely agree with the children thing. Although changing your mind 4 years in, after the husband has been asking for nearly two - is not a great move on her part.
I’ve been married almost 3 and I’ve gone from “yeah I’d like to have children” to becoming a fencesitter who’s not feeling the idea of pregnancy so clearly time (and becoming more educated on matters) changes things.
Totally understandable, but I believe these feelings should be communicated as soon as you realize them - especially since children is such an important part of marriage for many many people. The changing the mind isn’t totally problematic, moreso the leading him on for 1.5+ years.
OP here, I don’t recall the password to my throwaway account that I posted here (I didn't sign up with an email), so using another comment. You just need to trust me that I was the original poster.
> Like you’re telling me that you’ve been going to the gym to make yourself physically healthy and started grooming routines to make yourself attractive but you’re also worried about being rejected for being ugly?
Because I did all that, and my wife still doesn’t want me? And my ugly features are due to things I can’t change (with out surgery) due to eye shape, big balding head, and chubby cheeks (Low body fat doesn’t make this go away for some people).
> You maintain the whole household and do all the cooking and cleaning and think women won’t want you? Interesting…
I do all that, and my wife still doesn’t want me. That’s why I have a hard time believing other women would. But again, like I mentioned that’s nothing more than a fear but it is something that feels true and genuine to me! We are not all robots with solely algorithmic thought process. We have emotions and feelings too!
> This whole thing just reads like “I did everything right but wife did everything wrong” but in actuality relationship issues are more complicated than this but that’s just my opinion. Of course, not everything in black and white and the “me me me” narrative is unfair to the other person.
I completely understand, but what am I supposed to say? I literally have no information to her side due the following that I mentioned in my post:
1. Her not spending any time with me to the point where I don’t even know who she is anymore. Just a room mate at this point.
2. Her not communicating with me at all. I went all out in chores, finances, looks, love language, to hope she can open up to me but still nothing. I always directly tell her what’s wrong and she never really says anything. It’s infuriating.
3. I tried so many times for couples therapy or even just if wants therapy individually but she always says “There is no need”.
So please tell me what am I supposed to do. I am open to the possibility if it is my fault, and I am just seeing due to being emotionally blinded but I literally have nothing. I just don't know.
> I also think that the wife has felt pressured by this subject after reading this “I couldn’t tell my family about the details since it would break their heart. And they are surprisingly patient on the grandchildren thing but they really wanted to have them.”
"Telling this would break my family's heart" is due to saying how my wife is not giving me any time in return even though I tried everything. The 2nd sentence about them being patient about grandkids just strengthens the fact that they are not pressuring me or my wife. I tried my best to not pressure my wife, but literally asking her once a year on it after the 2.5 year mark and doing everything in my power to show her that I am ready to help her out if she needs without forcing her. I gave her that ultimatum about kids but she forgot about it completely, because I never reminded her. Sometimes I think if she doesn't even remember the things I say.
> Spouses are allowed to change their mind about wanting children. Clearly his wife has made her choice
No, that’s the thing. She clearly didn’t make a choice. If she told me “I don’t want kids” or at least “I most likely don’t want kids, but I know that is a deal breaker for you so it’s best if we see other people”. She is just ignoring me other than "I need more time in my job", and I don’t what’s even know what is happening. I am not good at reading situations like these because I never had a relationship before, but is it really too much to ask for her being honest with me instead of pushing me away? Like again, we made a contract before marriage and it's unfair to expect to her to completely and always oblige by that contract because people change, but at least let me know you changed your mind to something I still feel strongly about.
Sorry if I sounded rude, but I literally poured my heart out in this post and I genuinely don't know what else to say. Everything in this comment is already stuff I mentioned in my post.
She is not fulfilling her responsibility as a wife and has gone back her word. Enough is enough. Move on and leave her to her corporate life. Find a nice woman who shares your values Insha’Allah. You seem like a good man who treats women well, and it’s not that hard for divorced men to remarry. So don’t worry about struggling to find another woman.
Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy. It's better to divorce her and find a feminine wife in the future than remain yoked to a mutashābiha for the rest of your life.
What does that word mean? Never heard it before.
Ibn ‘Abbās (radiyallāhu ‘anhumā) said:
لَعَنَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم الْمُتَشَبِّهِينَ مِنَ الرِّجَالِ بِالنِّسَاءِ، وَالْمُتَشَبِّهَاتِ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ بِالرِّجَالِ
“Allah’s Messenger (salallāhu ‘alaihi wasallam) cursed the men who resemble and imitate women; and the women who resemble and imitate men.” (Al-Bukhāri, no. 5885)
It means a woman who resembles a man. In this case, prioritising her career over her husband and usurping his position as shepherd over his family by undermining his decisions and refusing him his rights is a blatant betrayal of feminity.
JazakAllah for explaining.
It's pretty embarrassing that you think this level of disregard for spouse and family and obsession with job is a male attribute. It's an attribute of bad character...not of gender.
A destructive obsession with one's career is predominately a failing of men, not women. I don't feel embarrassed in the slightest to say so.
This is off topic, but how do you come to the conclusion that spliting the chores in half is fair? You were doing half the chores and providing for her, whil she was doing half the chores and working to provide for her self.
or u can keep her and find a second wife....
Why though? It does not sound like she's even offering him anything tbh.
The second wife is not going to do her portion of the chores.
And he'll have to provide for two, not one
I think there’s a chance she’s cheating on you unfortunately. These “outings” you mentioned with office colleagues etc, are really sure this is the case? The only reason I say this is because from what you’re saying, she genuinely doesn’t care for you in the slightest. Shows little interest in you and going an entire year without intimacy is crazy. That’s not a healthy relationship. She’s not fulfilling her rights as a wife and it’s sad to see especially when you’re putting so much effort in.
My advice, be confident. Trust your instincts and your guts. You want to leave her but you’re looking for someone to convince you otherwise. Your therapist even eluded to this. You’re too eager to please other people. Do what’s right for you. Divorce her. If you do, unfortunately you’ll see how much doesn’t really care that you did.
Stop putting in all that effort and see what she does tbh
I don't have any advice but I agree with what everyone is saying. Sorry to hear you're going through this. You sound like you've been the perfect husband. I hope things get better for you soon inshaAllah.
Hello everyone, just want to let you know that I am OP. I forgot my password to the throwaway account I used to post this and I didn't use an email to sign up so I can't recover my password. Y'all need to trust me.
Either way, thank you all (Except to a few rude ones) for the support. I really appreciate it.
I won't divorce her, I'll just ask for a seperation to give some time to myself and let her know that if she doesn't want kids she is free to end it. If she doesn't communicate with me in a few months, I'll end it and learn to love myself and not care what others think.
I always heard horror stories like this before online, but I never knew I would face something like this. Either way, it's my test from Allah and inshallah will try my best :).
Again, thank you!!!
>I won't divorce her, I'll just ask for a seperation to give some time to myself and let her know that if she doesn't want kids she is free to end it.
"You can't help someone who don't want to be helped."
You're 35+ and already wasted lot of time, giving yourself time again wouldn't do anything. As lot of them said lawyer up before she takes half of your property. She'll say she want kids but need sometime like in the past. Again you'll wait for one year but nothing gonna happen. She won't divorce you untill she's sure that she no longer need you.
If this isn't a troll post then I am really sorry you're going through this.
5 years is a long time. Dont ever stay in something because you are scared of being single. Assess whats high priority for you and get it. Tough medicine as it sounds, as a man you need to stand up for what you want else, who will?
Even though this might be a troll post(he didn't responded to any of the comments) but I think this issue is real and not spoken enough. Don't let either of your SO use you. Both needs to fulfill their own duties.
Let her live her corporate lifestyle. You deserve better my brother. If there was a bad omen, there would be three things... one of them a woman (paraphrasing a hadith). May Allah grant you a woman who fulfills her duties to you.
Also try to stash the hard earned money after you consult your lawyer and go ahead with divorce , there are multiple ways you can do that