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AdamMusa0

- there are more women on earth then men, who should support or take care of the remaining women. Should they be deprived of love or care? - some men literally marry extra women just to support them and vice versa , it’s not always s*x like you want to believe. - marrying extra wife’s comes with conditions in Islam. Do you think Allah swt isn’t aware or nothing is being recorded for the ones that abuse this. >since all men don't see the real value of a woman (unless for their own pleasure). ????? That’s a disgusting generalisation


AllahgorythmSoftware

Actually it skews more males rn. [world male:female ratio 2022](https://countrymeters.info/en/World#death_clock) I just googled “what is the male:female ratio in the world 2022,” this was the first result but there’s more results saying the same. I think you might be referring to when there are wars going on & there are woman & children needing care post-war.


AdamMusa0

That’s because of one child policy in the past in China. *China's one-child policy is another potential candidate. While crime has been soaring, the one-child policy, along with a strong preference of Chinese parents for sons over daughters, has resulted in there being approximately 120 boys for every 100 girls in China, or 30 million “surplus” boys.* And also the figures of India and maybe KSA. Rest of world especially Western world has more women. And naturally in the past there have been more women, since men fight wars and die and women tend to house in general terms. So in natural circumstances there will be more women. Like in the past centuries.


AllahgorythmSoftware

Thanks for the thoughtful response, bro. That’s a good point about China’s policy & favor towards sons, definitely plays a big factor for sure. If you don’t mind me asking, what’s going on in India & KSA?


AdamMusa0

India has strong cultural preference for boys , because daughters cost families more money especially since in Hindu traditions the family of the daughter pays dowry to the male. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20879612/ *Women are murdered all over the world. But in India a most brutal form of killing females takes place regularly, even before they have the opportunity to be born. Female feticide--the selective abortion of female fetuses--is killing upwards of one million females in India annually*


GamaRay111

You are right: I did make a generalisation that was bad. But the rest... there are more men than women. Maybe in western countries it s the other way around but in country where the population is WAY BIGGER than western countries there are more men than women!


AllahgorythmSoftware

JazakAllah khair, I appreciate you sharing resources ✌️☺️


AvailableOffice

About KSA, the population is skewed more male because they have a lot of male expats and immigrants that go there for work and send money back home.


AllahgorythmSoftware

Oh interesting! I didn’t know this either, JazakAllah khair ☺️


EddKhan786

Well easily fixed just migrate to where theres more men lol


Cultural_Point3001

No it depends, for example you have Qatar, UAE and Oman have a way more males than females, it depends on which country like the country I live in now which is Egypt the sex ratio is 102.11 males per 100 females, and egypt is suffering from overpopulation. it is normal variation between countries, it’s not like 1+1=2. Therefore your statement is entirely wrong If you have polygamy preference dude, then tell your wife before marrying her and don’t force her to accept it “becuzzz itzzzz your righhttt”. she doesn’t want, then she doesn’t. Simple.


TheChaosOfWater

There's actually more men in the world than women. The ratio is like 102:100 so it's close, but more males still.


UnNamedUser66

It is makruh according to shafi'i and Hanbali madhab to have an extra wife without any reason just out of lust. This is because you need to be fair to everyone and thus is a great risk and responsibility you might find yourslef unable to fulfill after marriage. https://www.abuaminaelias.com/should-a-muslim-man-marry-a-second-wife/


GamaRay111

It is against the values of islam to marry out of lust


____whoami____

what if the man is able to be fair? Not everyone is unable to be fair. Note that


GamaRay111

You can't love two persons 50:50. There is always less or more on the two sides. How can you live with the man whom you gave everything to him (children, your body, your secrets,..) knowing that he loves the other more?


____whoami____

Love is in the heart. When it comes to fairness, it means what is apparent(e.g. spending fairly on each wife) not what is in the heart. You should first learn basics


GamaRay111

I know that. I am asking you personally. Would you want to live that life


BroBro18070

You ask for Islamic answers, and then when they're not as you would like them to be, you disregard them and counter with "would you want (insert X)?". Appeal to emotion is not a solid argument. And certainly not what Islamic rulings are based off of. Even if you got commenters to agree with you, this doesn't change the Islamic ruling.


GamaRay111

First of all, i'm bringing their personnal opinion to prove a point. I m not being far for what islam is about. Islam is about logic and that's what i m based on.


BroBro18070

>Islam is about logic and that's what i m based on. Not the logic of a jahil like you. 1. Quran 2. Hadith 3. ijma'a 4. ijtihad of major scholars These are the sources Islamic rulings are based off of. Not your logic.


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BroBro18070

jahil is not name calling, it's the Arabic word for ignorant. Read the comments of this person and then think if it applies. Somebody who ignores so many basic Islamic principles, or doesn't know them while proclaiming their opinion to be Islamic, is indeed a jahil.


GamaRay111

I'm talking about the logic of ulamah..


BroBro18070

Then you don't understand how rulings are made. The Ulema look for evidence, and base their rulings off of that.


GamaRay111

Second thing, most men marrying 2 wifes aren't fair. What's the point at this case


____whoami____

dude. Most men? Do you know each and every man on the planet earth. Stop generalising.


GamaRay111

Dude, you are telling me that feelings is a number?? That we can have exactly "100% happy " or "100 sad "?


UnNamedUser66

The thing is you can't know if you can be fair untill after marry, and given the great punishment being unfair to your wives is, then polygamy is a risk imam al shafi'i said is better to avoid than regret later.


____whoami____

what risk... Same applies to the first wife. You should not get married at all because you never know whether you can fulfil rights of your spouse.


UnNamedUser66

Are you saying marrying one wife is the same difficulty and responsibility as marrying 4 wife's? Of course not 4 wives is 4x the responsibility. And I am talking about being fair not just full filling rights. Which is something a person in a monogamous relationship should not worry about. And yes irresponsible people should not marry at all.


____whoami____

what is being fair? pls shed somw light. Repearing your own sentenence... Irresponsinle people should not marry at all let alone marry second, third or fourth time... Let me make it easy for you... People on the planet earth = responsible people + irresponsible people Irresponsible people should not marry at all. Responsible people should get married and then those responsible people who desire more women and have means to do so and can be fair to all wives can marry upto 4 women


UnNamedUser66

>what is being fair? pls shed somw light. I am talling about emotional fairness, a rich person maybe able spend on all his wives equally, but can he guarantee that he will love each one equally and thus rreat them with fairness which is a feeling that is difficult to control? Thats my point and since he cant guarantee that he will love all 4 equally it is better to avoid polygamy than risk allah punishment.


____whoami____

is loving equally a requirement for marrying multiple women? If yes, please share a proof. Also tell us who knows if Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam loved all of his wives equally? did his wives knew what is the heart of the Prophet?


UnNamedUser66

Technically you need to be fair with all them not just with their material needs , plus if you love one wife more than the others you will difinetly be more biased towards her needs and treat her better than the others. See my point?


____whoami____

you point is baseless. Answer my question first. Did prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam love each of his wife equally? Do we have some proof that tells us about this hidden feature?


____whoami____

Technically you need to fair in terms of things that are apparent e.g. if you stay two nights with one wife, you have to stay 2 nights with other wives as well. You cant spend extra nights with one wife without the permission of ther wives. If you can do this, you are good to get second third and fourth wife provided you have the means


____whoami____

bro you are a joke... being fair with multiple wives includes spening nights equally with all of your wives... what is so risky here?


UnNamedUser66

>what is so risky here? What if you fell in love with one more than the other or something.... It is not rocket science to see how polygamy can easily end badly.


____whoami____

dude. that can happen even when you are married to a single woman. Then as per your logic this is risky so dont get married at all. But Islam allows men to marry upto 4 women and period


UnNamedUser66

>dude. that can happen even when you are married to a single Tahts why you arent supposed to contact other non mahram women especially when you are married but this 4× as difficult if you are married to 4 >But Islam allows men to marry upto 4 women and period Islam limited polygamy to 4* when unlimited polygamy was allowed Islam only allowed limitedbpolygamy as a concessions when sociatal needs arises requiring men to aquire extra wives to protect widows during war and such, it limited the number to 4 so men dont abuse the system. Otherwise islam would have allowed unlimited polygamy like in jahiliya.


____whoami____

haha. It is easier to protect yourself from non-mahram when are you married as compared to when you are single. And it is easier when you have two wives and it geys super easier when you have three or four wives. This should be the logic but you are going opppsite. Very basic common sense And regarding polygamy, men can marry upto 4 and it has nothing to do with wars or protecting widows and all.


UnNamedUser66

>geys super easier when you have three or four wives. This should be the logic but you are going opppsite. Then why stop at 4 why dont you marry 20 like in jahiliyah if that is the wisdom behind it?


____whoami____

when are done with 4, you have to self control. What is so complex here that you fail to understand


CowNo7964

He can get married again to fulfill his desires. It’s not haram at all but keep in mind, he’s getting married again, meaning another mahr, upkeep, probably another house, etc. That’s not devaluing her at all


GamaRay111

Saying that mariage is for lust is an insult to islam


CowNo7964

Aisha reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Marriage is part of my Sunnah. Whoever does not act upon my Sunnah is not part of me. Give each other in marriage, for I will boast of your great numbers before the nations. Whoever has the means, let him contract a marriage. *Whoever does not have the means should fast, as fasting will restrain his impulses.*” Source: Sunan Ibn Mājah 1846 Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Albani Fulfilling your desires in a halal manner is the reason of getting married. It’s not something to be ashamed of saying, much less saying it’s not the reason of getting married at all.


GamaRay111

Fulfilling your desires is part of mariage. It is the smallest part compared to the REAL reasons.


____whoami____

it is not smallest rather it is one of the main reasons we should get married


____whoami____

the problem with liberals and the modern society is that they consider sex outside marriage as a normal thing while as in islam it is called zina and the same act when done with your spouse is Ibadah in islam.


GamaRay111

Getting married out of lust is an insult to what islam amd marriage is all about.


____whoami____

outside it is called lust, inside marriage it is called love and intimacy which is an important part of marriage


GamaRay111

It is not about what it is called. Lust is lust.


____whoami____

lol. Seems you wont have sex with your wife. How would you have sex without having sexual feeling for your wife?


GamaRay111

When you love someone, you love everything about them. What made me love my girl is her intelligence, her energy, her character,... All of that make me have physical feelings That is allowed in islam You seems to not understand the meaning of lust I have never said that marriage is not about physical love.


liroseanna

You're allowed to write in our nikah contract that he can't marry again while being with you. It's pretty simple, you get to know your potential and you list your requirement and about yourself and they do the same and you can both have a discussion. This is how it works for all types of marriages \[even for non-muslims\] you get to know the person, if their value and expectations don't match with yours you move on. So when you have a potential you say you don't want him to marry again while he's married to you, and if he agrees you can naturally write down the clause on the contract. This is why we have a nikah contract in Islam. It allows both husband and wife to uphold what they promised each other before marriage. You can dm if you want to speak further about this. I'm a sister by the way!


____whoami____

he asked whether it is ok to marry second out of lust. The asnwer is yes.


GamaRay111

According to the majority opinion in Islamic law... IT IS MUSTAHABB (MERITORIOUS) TO HAVE ONLY ONE WIFE ACCORDING TO THE MAJORITY OF SUNNI SCHOLARS OF JURISPRUDENCE. This is the standard ruling in the Hanbali school. Al-Mardawi al-Hanbali has said in al-Insaf: ‎(وَيُسْتَحَبُّ أَيْضًا : أَنْ لَا يَزِيدَ عَلَى وَاحِدَةٍ ، إنْ حَصَلَ بِهَا الْإِعْفَافُ ، عَلَى الصَّحِيحِ مِنْ الْمَذْهَبِ ... قَالَ ابْنُ خَطِيبِ السَّلَامِيَّةِ : جُمْهُورُ الْأَصْحَابِ اسْتَحَبُّوا أَنْ لَا يَزِيدَ عَلَى وَاحِدَةٍ) “And it is also meritorious to not exceed one (wife) if he can ensure his chastity by that according to the correct opinion of the (Hanbali) Madhhab... Ibn Khatīb al-Salāmīyyah said: The majority of the companions (in the Madhhab) are upon the opinion that it is meritorious to not exceed one (wife).” And according to many scholars, having one wife is actually Sunnah. In al-Rawd al-Murbi\`, Imam al-Bahūtī expounds upon the principle in Zād al-Mustaqni\` “It is Sunnah to marry one”: ‎(ويسن نكاح واحدة ، لأن الزيادة عليها تعريض للمحرم، قال الله تعالى: {وَلَنْ تَسْتَطِيعُوا أَنْ تَعْدِلُوا بَيْنَ النِّسَاءِ وَلَوْ حَرَصْتُمْ} \[النساء: 129\]) “And it is Sunnah to marry one (wife) because more than that exposes one to harām. For Allah the Most High has said: {And you will never be able to do justice between your wives no matter how bad you want to..} \[Qur’an, al-Nisa’ 4:129\]” The harām referenced here is injustice to one’s wives for which we would be held severely accountable for before Allah. But this view is not limited to the Hanbalis. Imām al-Shāfi\`ī said: ‎(وأحب له أن يقتصر على واحدة وإن أبيح له أكثر؛ لِقَوْلِهِ تَعَالَى: ( فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلا تَعْدِلُوا فَوَاحِدَةً.. ).) “And it is preferable to limit one’s self to one (wife), even though more is permitted. This is due to (Allah) the Most High saying: ‘And if you fear that you can not do justice (to more than one), then (marry) only one...’”


____whoami____

this is for people who are not in need of second wife. As for those who are in need Allah has made it halal and is perfectly fine.


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I am happy with polygyny as long as I'm not forced to participate in it, which I will not. Just put in your Nikkah contract that your marriage is annulled if he remarries, pack your bags, take the kids and leave.


____whoami____

take the kids? Dude


[deleted]

Well of course I would not leave my kids behind. He wants to remarry that's up to him, but me and the children are gone next day. He can visit them if he likes, I am not playing these games, if I say before marriage I won't participate in polygyny I mean it, no amount 'bUt iTs HaLaL' will force me to take part in such arrangement.


____whoami____

ok... sorry i was wrong. I just read that woman has more rights to custody. You can take kids


One1pathOne1way

Don’t lie to yourself saying your happy then on the other side say pack your bags.


mdakramaq

Its not like its only at the whims of a man, that he can a wife whenever he wants!! It doesn't work like that. It would only work when both parties agree. Make a commitment, with witnesses, and registering with the authorities. That's what we call nikah. Simple.


Different_Milk2635

You have any source that tells the first wife has to agree?


ClimateDizzy9324

He did not say anything about the first wife having to agree or not. Besides marriage is supposed to be publicly known. It is not permissible to hide it. So if a man thinks leading a double life is smart he is only shooting himself in the foot.


Different_Milk2635

My bad


GamaRay111

Yes he have to have the permission. In islam, the man can't make his wife sad.


ClimateDizzy9324

No, he does not need permission of his first wife. Do not go around making your own rulings.


GamaRay111

How can you live with the man whom you gave everything to him (children, your body, your secrets,..) knowing that he loves the other more? Second thing: islam is about balance in marriage. If you know that something will make your wife miserable , you will do it whatever for selfish reasons? That's not the love islam thaught us. Nikkah s about contract. And if before marriage the woman says she doesnt want her man with a second wife, it will be that way.


mdakramaq

I'm not talking about polygamy. I'm just talking about normal nikah. You have to look up if the present wife has to agree or not. Don't do anything in haste. Sit down, and think about it. Take your time.


GamaRay111

Yes he have to have the permission. In islam, the man can't make his wife sad.


BroBro18070

Wrong. Permission of the first wife is not needed.


GamaRay111

So it doesn't bother you to make your wife sad? Wow i don t think islam would be ok with that...


BroBro18070

>So it doesn't bother you to make your wife sad? My own stance doesn't matter. This is an Islamic ruling. >Wow i don t think islam would be ok with that... Provide your sources then. Specifically a Fatwa from reputable scholars, or even better, a Madhab ruling, that it's Haram to marry a second wife if the first wife disapproves.


GamaRay111

Islamic rulling is based on logic.


BroBro18070

Provide your source.


GamaRay111

Allah described marriage very differently in the Holy Quran: '. . . He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts) . . . " (Holy Quran 30:21, Yusuf Ali Translation).


BroBro18070

Using an unrelated Ayah. You said that "Islamic rulings are based on logic", I asked for your source.


____whoami____

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/61/second-marriage-in-islam-without-permission-of-first-wife-and-for-love


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GamaRay111

You can't love two persons 50:50. There is always less or more on the two sides. How can you live with the man whom you gave everything to him (children, your body, your secrets,..) knowing that he loves the other more?


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GamaRay111

I m asking you personnaly. Would you want this life? As i described it


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GamaRay111

Don't worry it's not all about you, it's the same answer to the other women.


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Cultural_Point3001

Every woman is just like you naturally, no woman with a normal mental state can tolerate that bs (sorry for my language), that if she is able to separate from him but she can’t if she is considered like a second class citizen in an autocratic third world country


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Cultural_Point3001

I don’t agree but I don’t want to debate. Since men would go nuts if their wives cheat, their jealousy is valid “becuz they haf testosterone”, while our jealousy is not valid and actually it is bad. No mentally well woman would ever agree and yes I am generalising.


One1pathOne1way

This is silly because no man would be able to know if they would want a polygamous lifestyle. It’s like him asking you will you give me 5 children. Your not sure


BroBro18070

Yes he can.


GamaRay111

Link? Sources? Explain?


BroBro18070

The conditions for polygyny, don't include the reasoning of the man for doing it. Sheikh ibn Uthaymeen rahimahullah on the conditions of polygyny: https://youtu.be/ZPFoIEvqDdw TL;DR 1. Has enough money 2. Has enough physical health to satisfy all of them (sexually) 3. Can be just among his wives


GamaRay111

You all talk a lot about the men's perspective. What about the woman? There is always less or more on the two sides. How can you live with the man whom you gave everything to him (children, your body, your secrets,..) knowing that he loves the other more?


BroBro18070

>You all talk a lot about the men's perspective. What about the woman? That's not how Sharia rulings work. It's based off of evidence from the Quran, the Sunnah, and the Hadiths. >How can you live with the man whom you gave everything to him (children, your body, your secrets,..) knowing that he loves the other more? This appeal to emotion argument is irrelevant. What I or anybody else personally want, is irrelevant in the Sharia. But since this topic seems to concern you a lot, perhaps look into including as a condition in your marriage contract that your husband won't marry a second wife while he's married to you? That is valid Islamically, and you can do that if you want. What you can't do, is be as ignorant as you are, and go around proclaiming something to be Haram when it is indeed Halal, and saying "Islamically XYZ" when it's not like that at all in the Sharia.


GamaRay111

First of all, i'm using the emotional side to prove a point but i'm using islam and logic in my explanation.


BroBro18070

>but i'm using islam and logic in my explanation. You haven't provided 1 source. Proclaiming "in Islam" and then stating your unsubstantiated opinion, is not using Islam to explain.


GamaRay111

"My unsubstantiated opinion" i don't get why you would call it that way if i provide it all the learning my sheirs taught me And about rhe source, you are right, i should share them


BroBro18070

>"My unsubstantiated opinion" i don't get why you would call it that way if i provide it all the learning my sheirs taught me See that's the thing, this is the internet. Nobody knows who you learned from, or if you learned from anybody at all, or if they're a reliable source. Nobody even anything about you. So "your Sheikh's", are not a source.


GamaRay111

I said that i m okey to send sources


GamaRay111

Second thing, i'm not saying it's haram. Just trying to understand my post


One1pathOne1way

Is marriage only about love? This is a real question for you


____whoami____

Yes it is allowed but why are you asking this in the context of multiple wives??? There is no link between the two. You should also ask can a man have a wife(first) for fullfiling his sexual desires. The answer is simple. Yes he can have wife(first, second doestnt matter) for just fullfilling his sexual desires but remember thar defeats the purpose od marriage. Fullfilling sexual desires in a halal way is one of the purposes of marriage but not the only purpose.


pn58

Yes.


GamaRay111

Explain? Link? Ressources ?


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TheNicestQuail

Some men want many wives and some women are fine with sharing with one. It's just how it is but I'd say most men just want one loving wife.


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liroseanna

So you would cheat? Cheating takes someone to 'intentionally' do it. And remember Polygamy is 'sunnah' not required. Just as its sunnah to marry a widow with children, a poor person. Put the same effort on men who don't cover their awrah too. Keep the same energy for the others. Y'all keep focusing on something that only benefits you. Women aren't just objects that are supposedly subjected to a man's pleasure.


[deleted]

In a secular marriage if your husband has a mistress that is cheating and you can easily divorce, in Islam, unless you put that condition in your Nikkah contract, it will be extremely hard to convince any Sheikh to give you Khula.


liroseanna

I'm sure depression and mental heath can be a reason for divorce. Many women fall into it. And is just evil to keep them trapped in such marriages. And then it will only cause trouble for the husband because in the end no matter what he does he'll never be able to make her truly happy again. And then fights will be involved, depression will prevent salah, reading qur'an and whatnot.


[deleted]

Women struggle to get khula when their husband is physically abusive, you practically need to go from masjid to masjid, beg on your knees to get divorced, these same sheikhs won't divorce because of mental health or depression. It might be a valid reason, but finding someone who will actually grant you khula based on that is nearly impossible. The only way I see is adding an extra condition in Nikkah contract, divorced automatically if he remarries.


liroseanna

Ikr this is actually soo sad —sheikk, imams have little to no empathy for women in this type of marriage. What's the point of keeping someone with severe depression in such soul-trapping marriages? Also getting khula only exists in Muslim countries \[sharia ruled, or with the religious institution being very strong along with the state's government\]. My parent's native country is secular but Muslim majority but marriage is through the state rather than religious institutions. This mostly exists in sharia rules states, the gulf and most likely SEA \[not sure about this one\]