Reviewers showing gameplay footage to demonstrate the mouse performance is absolutely useless. The mouse is not the reason you got a random 3K in gold nova 2.
The current ‘clones’ of zowie shapes don’t deserve to be called clones. The subtle shape changes result in a massive difference in in-hand feel.
I agree with your first point but I think it's just fun to watch people actually use different mice. Fresh Reviews' Apex clips are a nice touch to his videos imo.
Recently discovered fresh reviews, isn’t he an ex pro player I’ve been told?
Also optimum tech, often shows kovaaks scores and footage, pretty sure he’s in the top 99.9% of some scenarios on there.
This is depressingly true. I've bought so many mice to replace my many Zowie Fk1's most of them being really similar or clone like, most of them great mice I gave months of testing to and want to use so badly, but my skill was easily half of when I use the Zowie Fk1 and none of them felt even remotely close.
I would god damn love to not be stuck on Zowie and use a wireless mouse with great features but fuck me I guess.
When picking shapes, people should be optimizing for comfort and long term health, not for some mythical improvements in aim-trainer scores. Humans are extremely adaptable, and your level of in-game skill will 99.99% depend on the time you put into improving, not the shape of your mouse.
I think you might have jumped to the wrong conclusion. I didn't say shape is the only decision factor when picking mice. Latency, weight, sensor, durability etc are decision factors too. My comment relates to the thought process behind picking a shape.
I've gone both ways. 2 years ago I changed up my grip/mouse preference and legit felt like an aimbot, had the best performance of my life despite getting older. That lasted for like 8 months, not sure from the grip or just playing too much.
After a trip to the chiro and regular arm/shoulder pain, im now optimizing for comfort
This is true. That’s why I don’t use my Viper 8k despite it being the most technologically impressive mouse I own. It’s also the only mouse that makes my hand cramp up. The front flares are just way too aggressive for me. That’s why the Viper V2 Pro is a no go for me. But I’m looking forward to the wireless viper mini. Maybe that will work for me.
i use mine for geometry dash since its more stable and might as well since i got it for free (shoutout to boardzy) but i couldn't imagine actually maining it as your normal mouse
Is it unpopular around here?
I also main it and I'm aiming better than ever. My previous mice were G502, EC2a, mm710, XM1r, G-Wolves Skoll, Model D wireless and now the mm731.
The shape is great, the clicks are quieter than normal (very nice for recording), the sensor feels good, the battery life is pretty nice and it feels really solid while being insanely light.
I did change the mouse feet, because while they did glide well, they were really thin so a bit of pressure would press the underside of the mouse into my mousepad. I replaced them with some Corepads.
My only two complaints are:
The mouse should've been a bit longer for my hands. Maybe around 4 millimeters longer and it would've been perfect. Even in it's current state it wasn't hard to adapt my grip a little.
And the side buttons should be more forward for the way I grip it.
Do people not like the shape? It's definitely a very specific shape or is there something else people don't like about the mouse?
It's hyped up to be an amazing mouse and for some people it is. But I feel a lot of people just get on the "it's the greatest mouse of all time" hype train. By today's standard its got good/average specs. Side buttons are pretty bad. Overall feeling imo is far from the best. Scroll wheel is on point though.
Agreed, I got it when it came out, then got a viper ultimate when that came out, I really prefer the viper way way more but the shape is just too flat for me/slightly too small for my grip. So stuck with the gpx, then got a super light.
Just got a xlite v2 wireless today and my god it’s just better in every-way for me, shape, clicks, side buttons, lighter etc
I like to have two of them actually. Also I use them for dpi switching (but only if I have two of them). Depending on the mood, game and class I play, I sometimes like to use a different dpi.
This is actually one of the reasons I swapped from using the GPX to the 305, aside from shape preference. I just wish Logitech offered some way to bind the DPI button to a "standard" click like all the other buttons (an M6 I guess?), because I'm tired of having my ping function in games tied to a separate command like a page forward or page backward function that might also have some obscure feature I didn't originally know about.
I hate the coating Logitech uses on their mice. I‘d much rather have them change the texture to something like razer‘s instead of being blinded by the immense shine that their mice develop after some heavy use. I‘ve heard the coating is better on their white mice but I‘m still yet to try one.
Thank god someone said this. I love my g pro superlight but the coating is so bad and it bothers my OCD like symptoms that I just use the white G305 or another mouse. I wish they made it with coating options or something.
The skins that came with in the box definitely helped with this for me when it was recommended by another user here. I just didn’t know how to grip it and the slipping from the shape didn’t allow me to hold it the same way consistently. The skins eliminated that
Everything should have optical switches, click feel be damned. I'm already up to 20ms debounce on my xlite and need to get new switches, haven't had that mouse for even a year. Every other mouse I've had with mechanical switches have failed, double clicked, or both.
Meanwhile the deathadder I got with opticals still feel great, have never had a single false click, etc. Razer is on the right track and I hope every mouse switches to opticals because of it.
I've had 2 xlites, a v1 and v2, and used them both for a few months at 0ms denounce with no double clicking. In fact I've never had a mouse double click and I used to main logitech mice for years, g502 and g403, with the old omron 50m switches that were famous for double clicking. I hate opticals and wish every mouse would have the xm1r clicks, but I get where you're coming from if that's your experience.
I also used mine for the first few months without double clicks. Then I had to raise it to 2ms, then 4, then 8, now I'm at 20 and I still see them sometimes. It's not a matter of bad luck or anything either, it's just a flaw with the way mechanical switches are designed and you WILL see double clicks at some point, weather you've noticed it or not. Opticals are very close to the feel of mechanical switches and if more manufactures like logitech invested in them they would likely surpass mech switches.
But even if they felt a little bit worse, I'd happily take that trade-off if it meant my switches had no chance of failing.
if companies gave half of a shit about their products and not solely on profits they would use latch debouncing on all of their mechanical switch mice, it's so vastly superior that it's not even funny. it allows for ridiculous low click latencies, 0 lag debounce, and (or very low) chance of double clicking. 2 years down the line, not 1 single instance of an m1k/m2k double clicking afaik
The Zowie scroll wheel is the best scroll wheel. On every other mouse brand I will accidentally jump from time to time. But on Zowie I never misjump and never misclick.
i thought i was the only one. for games like cs/val that super tactile stiff wheel is super nice, but i can see how people wouldnt appreciate it for other games or daily driver stuff (i used to use another mouse with an infinite scroll like the mx master series to combat that, plus it makes zowie mice feel much lighter when going between the two)
Combining super fast mouse pads with fast feet is dumb.
Shit software like Ghub\Synapse is still better than no software at all(especially for wireless mice priced at 100$+).
>Shit software like Ghub\Synapse is still better than no software at all
This 1000x.
Also I don't even think Synapse is bad anymore. It has A LOT of features, stays out of the way, and on most of their mice you can just load your shit onto the mouse then uninstall it.
i main sapphires + shidenkai (until it wears down atleast) and i dont get the hate on fast stuff. ive always used fast pads so my aim is adjusted already and i think theyre the most fun. when my shidenkai wears out ill go to to my artisan g2 U which is still a faster pad just not shidenkai fast. its a fun setup
Yeah there's really like no game I see a benefit to being able to move your mouse that fast outside like fucking osu. And I agree with the software thing, but it's weird that none of the software from major gaming peripheral companies are very good.
thats what im thinking. sub 50g mouse + shidenkai/sapphires and my aim isnt horrendously bad or anything. you just have to rely on your hand stopping the mouse more
Well, it can be usable for tracking in some games, but in games like CS:GO it's borderline unusable, you can't flick consistently when you have no stopping power.
* comfort grooves are objectively better
* Raw matte abs plastic is better than 99% of coatings
* Zowie/Vaxee scroll wheels aren't that much much more tactile and are just really loud
* Sensor circlejerking is stupid and no one needs anything better than a well implemented 3360
* Short mice in the perpendicular to mousepad direction are stupid. less room to grip makes mice need to be lighter just to maintain maneuverability.
>comfort grooves are objectively better
I definitely prefer comfort grooves over something like a flat box but I dislike extremely deep grooves that force your hand to a grip you might not like.
>Raw matte abs plastic is better than 99% of coatings
Actually agree with this. Raw matte plastic "feels" cheaper than but it's grippy enough without being sticky on my palms even in humid weather. My MM731 has a "cheap" feeling raw plastic texture but I prefer it over any other coating just because of it's functionality.
> Zowie/Vaxee scroll wheels aren't that much much more tactile and are just really loud
Agree, terrible terrible scroll wheels.
> Sensor circlejerking is stupid and no one needs anything better than a well implemented 3360
Other than battery life, yeah.
The Zowie scroll wheel has tactile feedback from those little spring loaded bumps, I don’t find them to feel as sharp as I think they intend though. They are in fact just heavy, loud scrolls lol. C series FK2 I have feels better though.
> Sensor circlejerking is stupid
Haha yeah those guys who are saying the 3395 is so much more accurate are just so full of shit. It’s not like switching from a 60hz monitor to a 240hz where you can actually see a difference.
Seriously. If you are able to lift a sandwich to your mouth and eat, then 70-80 gram mice should not be a problem. The phone you are typing on is likely 200-ish grams for reference and y’all are probably on that thing alllll day lol.
My brother in christ I do not swipe my sandwich around hundreds of times before I eat it. My phone is also very heavy but aside from holding it above my face I am not worried about its weight or inertia.
That being said, 75g is pretty good but I’d always prefer lighter for my style of very relaxed claw. Much heavier and I have to give the mouse more palm support to keep control of it.
Yup, folks get the lightest mice they can, and find out that it's too slippery for control, then spend additional dollars on a mousepad which provides control.
If a heavy mouse can slide well on a cheap hard mousepad, then why even bother with lighter mice? - only a small subset of folks lift their mouse in gaming, which is when mouse weight comes into play.
Of course if there are health factors it's different, but most people just chase lower and lower weight, mutilating their mice etc.
Also, shape is way more important than weight for countering carpal tunnel. Ergo mice help you keep the wrist more neutral, hence less chance of impingement of the carpal tunnel. But if you do have CTS, conservative care is generally not very effective so if you can afford it I'd strongly suggest a surgery if the problem persists. It's relatively simple and very effective. (am a 3rd year physio student)
I can agree that chasing the lightest and gutting mice is often not worth it. You can lose out on the solid feeling of the mouse and it’s hard to get that back.
I disagree that a heavy mouse is just as effective as a light one though. Fingertip type motions are much easier on a light mouse and you are given more freedom when you need it. If you hard claw all the time though the weight won’t matter as much. That’s really where the difference in opinion on weight originates imo, whether or not people use a lot of palm support or not.
Yes I agree. My point was just about diminished returns. Reducing weight will help with control only to a certain point, after which it will just make it harder to control the mouse, not to mention having to cut out features to get the lower weight.
I use fingertip grip, and with my Model O- (69g) coming from an old FK2 (100g+), I'm already at the limit on how low I can go without sacrificing stability with my shaky and stiff hands.
The problem isn't that >=80g is too heavy or strenuous to lift a mouse or that it wears you out while playing. I don't think people say or mean that and rather think you're completely missing the point that having lightweight mouse *allows* you to handle a mouse differently than you otherwise would.
The heavier the mouse, the more the interfacial traction between your skin and the mouse surface matters, the more *inertia* matters, and the more tightly you need to (or *less* delicately you *can*) grip your mouse in order to stabilize it while dealing with higher momentum impulses during acceleration/pitch/etc.
You can play table tennis with a tennis ball but it's not the same game.
I think the G502 is a great mouse. It would most likely be my endgame if my hands weren't so small, or if Logi finds a way to make a smaller version of it.
I totally agree. The G502 is an excellent mouse. A workhorse and gaming monster, but it needs an update and a smaller version. 100+ grams isn’t really a smart buy in today’s mouse market imo
SS Prime series gets unneeded flak. Agreed, the shape is incredible and I hate IME styled shapes. To me, it's a vastly superior EC2. Also has the best feeling optical clicks. Most people here would probably like it, but they're more into irrelevant talking points (like feet color), or how a cable just doesn't flop enough.
I do agree that the shape is actually awesome but I personally find the main buttons really bad in game for spamming, and the side button design is awful. Also, a $130 (original price) wireless mouse with a 3335 and over 80g is very questionable. I would have used the wired version more if I didn't hate every one of the clicks in game, personal opinion. If they can revamp it with a 3395, new side button design, and under 70g, hopefully with improved magnetic switches since the idea is cool, then I would probably give a go with it as my main, but I doubt any of that.
I agree that it is a better shape than the ec2. And I love the rounded ledge where I can comfortably place my ring finger on it. The button feels nice and snappy, but the tap fire timing in csgo feels different than most mice I tried idk why. Definitely need some getting used to. Besides the KPU, this is my favourite shape out of many mice I tried.
Unless you need that exact shape, buying a mouse that costs 100 euros or more is unnecessary. There is definitely a cheaper alternative that will do the job for you just as well.
The HyperX Pulsefire Haste is the best value mouse on the market. GPX Superlight, Viper Ult. and V2 Pro, and Superglides are overrated. "High performance" mouse pads are unnecessary and a gimmick. Weight is not as important as marketing makes it seem, as long as the mouse is below 80ish grams it's lightweight enough.
Yea this sub hates steelseries for dumb reasons.
The prime mini wireless is one of my favorite mice all time and I own a lot including gpx and viper v2. Aerox 5 is comfy and the aerox 3 2022 is fantastic for claw grip. People just have a bad taste in their mouths about them from poor quality maybe 2-3 years ago.. but all of steelseries recent products are great and I'll die on this hill that I prefer them over any razer mice at the moment. Even big youtubers shit on steelseries all the time for dumb reasons.
Also, corsair are pretty well known for making terrible mice for fps gaming.... but the sabre rgb pro wireless is one of the most comfy ergonomic mice I've ever used and hits a lot of good marks in weight + sensor + one of the only 2000hz wireless mice (if not the only one). Pretty underrated mouse tbh and if corsair can follow that path with their other shapes then the sentiment on their mice will surely change.
I wouldn't call 11ms of click latency a dumb reason to dislike the Prime Mini, especially since it's been months since release with no fix. As for Corsair, their "2000hz" is faked with duplicated polls sent at USB FS intervals.
Both companies are (slowly) heading in the right direction, but there's definitely valid reasons to avoid both of them for now.
You are out of touch on why we hate on Steelseries. Let me enlighten you:
They always screw their mice one way or the other. The problem starts by using 3335 sensor and trying to sell above 100$, anything that costs over 80$ should be using at least a 3370.
I enjoyed the Aerox 3 shape but I can't understand few things
1. They have holes in the back and the base to cut on weight but the mouse inside has 10G of useless plastic that only serves reflect the RGB
2. Its a fairly low profile and medium sized mouse that most people will use for fingertip, why not make it 60G?
3. Cheap as fuck coating, its this rough surface that provides no gripiness at all.
4. Worst sidebuttons I have tried, long skinny and stiff.
Prime Mini wireless is acceptable but if you bothered to mod it you would find few decisions questionable again:
1. Why use a massive 550mah battery? Its 11G instead of 200-300mah like most mice ( including the Aerox 3 ). Its fine for the Mini but the normal Prime comes at 81G.
2. Given its huge battery you would expect the mouse to last for weeks well it barely goes 3. G303SE uses a 500mah and I honestly can't tell you how long it lasts, shit goes on for like 5 weeks.
3. Their optical switches feel amazing but they have failed to address the latency issues with them
4. Side buttons are skinny but I honestly have no trouble finding them and they are very well tensioned.
Vertical range of motion offered by claw/fingertip grip is overrated. It’s not like you can no longer aim vertically if you just hold your mouse comfortably. And if you use low sens that finger vertical motion will be too minuscule to matter anyway. Having constraints in your finger range of motion can actually be a good thing.
Yeah, got a love-hate relationship with SS. Nearly everything about the SS Prime mini I absolutely love. Clicks are bar none my favorite out of any mechanical or optical I’ve tried. Shape is one of like 2 mice I’ve used that is ergo without feeling like a goofy brick. Coating is fantastic. Minimal and tasteful RGB lighting. 2 things hold it back, a garbage-y old sensor while being sold at a premium price point, and significant click delay despite using gosh dang optical switches. If they fixed those two issues it would easily be in my top 3.
not an opinion but wireless has inherent drawbacks (weight, battery, negligible latency but still present and price)
for opinions, optical scrollwheels should be the norm
My semi-unpopular opinion is that mice with significant amounts of unnecessary weight are dumb and should be criticized. They aren’t people, I don’t need to worry about their feelings.
Also there’s nothing chad about using a heavy mouse, you’re just missing out on quicker adjustments and long term comfort. You do get the benefit of smoother deceleration but that’s the only reason I could imagine you’d want to use a 75g mouse instead of a 50g one.
I dislike the recent trend of "clicky" and "crisp" mouse clicks. Yes they are both of those but they also tend to require more force to click which leads to them being unusable for me due to finger strain. Orochi v2 was by far the worst clicks for arpg's I've tried. I wish more mice had clicks like the G303 as it is I haven't found any recently released mice with comparable clicks.
Also I prefer the GPW over the GPX.
Weight doesn’t matter as much as a lot of people here think. And holes on the mouse are an instant no buy for me as I have a cat that somehow gets hair everywhere
I concur! I prefer heavy mice, but I do have a few light ones too.
You are correct about the holes - My Xlite V2 Wireless has a couple of cat hairs in it, lol.
Every small fingertip grip mouse currently out is flawed in some shape or form.
MZ1 is too narrow, and the mousewheel position is too far forward. Nice QC though, best clicks I've ever used.
Orochi egg shape is bad for pure fingertip grip because if you hold the mouse further back to avoid the hump touching your palm, the taper fucks with your pinky finger placement.
Hati-S ACE wireless had build quality issues (bad clicks w/ lots of pre and post travel, slam clicking issues, my copy has sensor issues too).
mm711-710 have terrible QC and I'll never, ever buy a coolermaster product again. Dat shape though.
Finalmouse mice don't exist and anyone who says otherwise is just a product our collective imaginations.
HSK probably has the same issues as the Hati-S.
Viper mini is slightly too narrow and the sensor LOD is ass, and the cable is ass. Dem clicks and shape though.
Can you refer to a part of my statement where I appear to believe "bad qc relates to the shape of a mouse"?
Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems like you're just trying to put words in my mouth so you can say "Aha, got you!".
I'm holding back on that one for a couple of reasons, 1st being price, 2nd was the cord, and last was the lack of a bottom plate, I feel like something would probably go wrong, given my luck.
I'm holding back on that one for a couple of reasons, 1st being price, 2nd was the cord, and last was the lack of a bottom plate, I feel like something would probably go wrong, given my luck.
Lightweight mice are objectively better than heavier mice. Same with low static friction skates and skate surface area. Sure shape is important depending on your grip but a lighter mouse will always be better than a heavier one. People that disagree are either lying to themselves or just don’t want to go through the adjustment period of a lighter mouse.
>mz1 clicks felt too heavy
Not a well though decision to use fairly stiff and tactile switches on a purely fingertip mouse. M2K uses Jap Omrons and FM believe force bin their GM8.0s to be lighter something like that.
Despite terrible PR, business practices, and quality, Finalmouse is the most innovative and influential mouse company out there and their products are really impressive if you’re lucky to get a copy without major QC issues.
They’ve been consistently setting trends for enthusiast grade products that other companies later cloned for cheaper and with better quality.
They first put paracord on their mice out of the box.
Also, ultralightweight is a huge trend right now and they deserve a bit more recognition for starting it.
disagree and upvoted. there are plenty of other companies that have been far more influential whether shape wise, weight wise or technical side. zaunkoenig is miles ahead of finalmouse in every category. zowie had influence over the shape meta in the past 10 years much like microsoft had huge influence when zowie was starting out.
ppl downvoting you for posting an unpopular opinion in an unpopular opinion thread is rly funny tho
They first made a mouse with honeycomb holes in it kickstarting the whole "ultralightweight" trend.
They first put a paracord on the mouse out of the box when it was starting as a mod only done by enthusiast.
Not quite sure why you're being so sarcastic about magnesium, which is another true innovation nobody has even cloned yet, a year later.
Wireless is overrated imo. Unless you are playing with extremely low sens, you will feel nothing with mouse bungee. I'm a low sens player using Vaxee mice and never had any problems. I don't feel their "terrible" stiff paracode cable.
Maybe there are just that many extreme low sens players here on reddit but I doubt it.
I prioritize better build quality and shape with lower price.
Disagree, even if its using the smoothest or the thinnest paracord like the LGG ones, I can still feel the wires. My brain subconsciously thinking that I'm dragging the mouse cable with it even if I use medium or high sens
It's the reason why I went for wireless
fair if you actually feel it and bothers you. In my case I don't feel it and even if I do, like when I have to turn 180 real fast which rarely happens, it has zero effect on my actual aim performance. I agree that the wireless mice are nice but it just does not justify the price increase for me.
I only play csgo and wired mouse doesn’t bother me at all i don’t care if the cable is rubber , braided , paracord , stiffer cable , loose cable. My sens is 2.20, dpi 400 , edpi of 880 , 47/360cm
Twistzz won a major using an ec2-c + zowie camade 2 his cm is 74.22/360cm , sens 1.4 , dpi 400 , edpi 560
Zywoo doesn’t use a mouse bungee in lan he just throws the cable and start popping heads
WIRED MOUSE WON’T HINDER YOUR AIM YOU JUST SUCK GIT GUD
Yea I've noticed that too lol
Mine is 400 dpi 0.48 in Valorant and 400 dpi 2.5 in Apex. (68cm 360 valorant and 41cm in Apex according to mousesensitivity.com)
I don’t know about that guy but I use, 0.205 1600 DPI = 328.0 eDPI and I can’t stand wired mice even if it’s a paracord on a bungee had it with my viper mini just couldn’t stand it felt like it dragged sometimes so I switched to the Orochi V2.
I feel like paracord are sometimes worse because of how loose they are, I personally need a little stiffness in my wired mice.
Which game are you talking about? Valorant?
Personally I can use a wired mouse if I don't have any other option, but it does feel like a direct downgrade compared to wireless. The amount of freedom you get with wireless is definitely worth it for me. I never got around the problem of occasionally getting the cable under my mouse which made it impossible for me to enjoy wired mice.
Yeah for val, tbh vertical movements were what irritated me the most while using a wired mice but then again the viper mini is the perfect shape for me sometimes I go back to it but the Orochi v2 is pretty good as well just not fan of using batteries.
>Wireless is overrated imo. Unless you are playing with extremely low sens, you will feel nothing with mouse bungee.
when i go to my bed to watch a movie that wired mouse isnt coming with me
Ppl in this sub uses way too much "I have the same handsize" "I have almost the same handsize" "My hands are similiar" and so on. Mouse are mm different from on another in size which means a guy with 20cm hands may love a mice that one with 20.2cm will hate.
Me for example have 20.5 hands and hate the haste cuz these few extra mm makes my ring finger sit on the right corner which makes it very uncomfortable. Same with Viper, if my hands were 20.0cm instead I would love it but they actually overhang in the front cuz of 3mm +-.
Unfortunately you can only get a good fit buying and trying many mice, some get more lucky than others but buying like 10 mices till you narrow down your preferences is pretty much mandatory.
I strongly advice zowie fitting kit for anyone that can rent that, may save you a lot of time and money.
The current market is too focused on making mice as light as possible. As a result, large mice have been forgotten, and us with large hands have a shit selection to pick from compared to everyone else.
If all these companies can make "mini" versions of their mice then they can make XL ones too. I don't care if it's heavier, I just want something that fits.
Ok this is gonna be super controversial
Weight does not matter, is the mouse specs and if the shape is very comfortable for a person's hand for long period of use... Ironically I have a 76 gram mouse but I like it not just because of the weight, but because of the shape is very good for my claw and fingertip (pwnage symm oem) and the specs are decent for the price.
76g is heavy? I use the G303SE a lot with it 75g but also my starlights and the M2K with 23g. I can understand how the weight of a mouse could be preferential but lower weight makes a big difference for micro corrections.
Sensor positioning is just preference like claw or palm and it is an issue if you lift the mouse a certain way or your used to gripping the mouse more forward. Yes you can get used to it like you can get used to an unnatural grip but sometimes it's just simply more comfortable for some people to have a higher position.
your hands probably aren't actually so big that you can't use the mini versions of mice
stock feet are fine and I've only felt the need to replace them after they're worn out (1+ year of use)
I literally see my aim superstar teammate pop 1 taps left and right with stock feet at the bottom for their GPX, they fine lol
The Viper v2 pro is a better mouse than the superlight in every way and people are hating on it unnecessarily just because of the price. When the superlight was the same price for the longest time. Hell the pink superlight is still 150$ on Amazon and look how many people bought that in the past few months.
The viper has better clicks(v3 optical are great), better side buttons(the GPX ones are garbage), a better sensor, lighter, better stock coating, and better included grip tape. The only thing I will say is worse is razer synapse but I just set it up once then uninstall it. Shape is subjective but the safe shape of the gpro I am not a fan of.
finalmouse is held to a much much higher standard than other companies and part of it is at this point really ridicolous. like yall mfs be getting your magnifing glasses out on the scroll wheel to find issues.
G-Wolves SK-S should be the default budget mouse recommendation instead of the Razer Viper Mini. Stupid light at 47g, detachable cable, excellent skates, spare skates and grips included in box, fantastic smaller EC2 shape, good software, packaging several tiers above what it should be for a $30 mouse you can get via Prime.
It's slept on so severely, and I hate it.
That the new g303 se is actually a great shape. As someone who tried the older shape years back I never liked it then but the new shape I prefer over my other mice and every time I try a new shape I always end up going back to the g303
Stock mouse feet > aftermarket. They always have more control. They just take a while to break into to get a consistent glide, and most people replace stock mouse feet pretty much immediately. Scratchiness doesn't matter, thickness doesn't matter. Mouse feet don't wear out within a year, that's regular break in. I've used a G403/DA2013 stock for like 6+ years and never had issues. Many pros don't replace their mouse feet at all and keep using the same mouse for years while getting in 12+hours of use a day. Okay there are some off brand mice that have truly terrible and non-existent feet but that's another issue.
I agree that the GPX is overrated, however the 'safeness' of the shape makes it more consistent than other shapes. It's one of those shapes that doesn't get in the way no matter what grip you have and is far more comfortable than a FK/Viper clone.
The EC2 shape is one of the worst shapes I've ever used, and the Zowie texture is probably the worst I've ever felt.
You really can't understand a shape of a mouse through a video, no matter how much you study it. You have to hold it in person to properly judge it. I've tried like 30+ mice and each time there was always some aspect of the shape that completely changed my perception of the mouse.
Lots of eSports superstars here think that any mouse > 75g is bad, lol.
I've gotten down voted for saying that I like the Asus ROG Chakram & G502 Lightspeed.
The point is that this Subreddit is for MOUSE review, not ESPORTS MOUSE review. So, getting down voted for liking mice unsuitable for eSports is ridiculous.
bro first off, where are the studies, and second, that depends on what you classify as heavy. sure, 300g isn’t optimal but like 100g while somewhat heavy is very very usable
Do you use them for FPS games as well or just MMOs? Many years ago I used a Naga for FPS, back when the side buttons were more stiff.
Of course that led me to some thumb issues so I switched to less side buttons but the shape was way better for ME than any other mouse.
When I play single player FPS, I use the naga x.
The reddragon m901 is the best mouse I’ve ever used I love the texture the shape and I use it with all the weights. But the software is finicky at best
Not sure whether it's unpopular but the mouse itself is. I'm talking about the shape of B100. It's really comfortable and can be used both with left and right hand. They should make a wireless version of it
I hate low button height. Uncomfortable and difficult to hold mouse optimally. Forces hand a bit farther back which causes m1/m2 presses to happen on the back of the button & require more force. Makes it difficult to get pinky on the mouse at all for me with something like a gpx unless I drop back to a higher point.
Part of this might be because I'm very left hand dominant but mouse with my right. The "writing" analogy is worthless to me. The other part might be I have super wide but really average length hands. I can use a gpx, but it's significantly easier to use a g703 (fingertip or whatever claw flavor). I still main gpx because 703 is too heavy for me.
I dislike how stiff pretty much every mouse switch is.
I like Razer's PBT-like coating on their plastics. Everyone else complains about them (or maybe it's some sort of reverse confirmation bias).
I dislike stock rubber sides or aftermarket grips because my skin/sweat is mildly acidic, so in my hands mice with these end up looking janky. My old G403 has a big ol' indent in the thumbrest area. They do look great though because they provide a pop of color especially to pure black or white mice.
Finalmouse despite being a bad product are good tools.
Zowie makes the best scroll wheels for gaming.
Paracords other than Ceesa's flail around too much when gaming, *most* stock cables + bungie are better
Logitech stock feet are fine after break in
16 step > 24 step for competitive games
Viper mini is not a safe recommendation for most people, it's just very budget friendly.
This is not a hobby, it's consumerism (which is fine, just be honest about it)
2/3 (probably more) of the posts made on a daily basis break rule 4 and should be deleted more regularly.
(Popular): Polls spread misinformation and should be banned
Finalmouse QC isn't better or worse compared to mice made in other factories except for chunad, chunad is a steaming hot pile of garbage & This sub is actively toxic towards anything finalmouse.
My [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/v6in09/z/ibgk795) here proves my point
Kailhs GM 8.0 are a fucking meme switch, if you ever opened one up you'd see the absolute shit of a contact design, don't be surprised to see lots of GM 8.0 mice double click even if they have proper asymmetrical debounce, zippy DF3-P1 (white pin) best mechanical switch.
hate it or not i like using 0 debounce to double click/click stupidly fast. double clicking is just useful for everyday stuff like opening something on your desktop or selecting a word, clicking fast sounds nice and is amazing for when you would want an autoclicker but dont want to cheat
Everyone here loves the pulsar xlite but I feel like the only one here who can't handle the slits.
I palm grip and it feels like the slit is cutting into each fold of the M on my palm.
I think that any lighter than 30 grams is just uncontrollable, giant mousefeet should be the norm, ceramic skates are useless, speedpads aren’t worth it for 99% of games because it fucks flicking and doesn’t help tracking, and side holes done right as well as rear honeycombing literally doesn’t matter. The big one though is this: your mouse and pad, beyond click hardness, weight, some parts of shape, and glide feel, does not matter hardly at all and people who really think that one gram, one MM here or there, or little things like that make them subconsciously play worse are full of it whether they know it or not. It’s super fun and cool to try new mice and mice are fricken cool, but to get good you have to really learn with one. Yeah tenz switches, but he was born with a mouse in his hand. Getting another mouse will not make you good, learning on a good one will. Most of these aren’t true for everyone, there are some great speed pad flicking aimers, and I can see people using sub 30 grams, but for everything else, I think it’s true
Edit: And people should sell their mice they aren’t using (with exceptions of mice they might go back to or are sentimental about)
Endgame Gear's glossy surface (dark reflex) is the best on the market for people with dry hands.
Low and medium-wide with great back support (a la XM1) is still in its infancy and there's a lot of phase space to be explored. I guess it isn't that uncommon to hear people hope for a smaller XM1, but this goes beyond that imo.
Designers continue to undervalue the importance of side button placement and size. They should be pronounced, accessible, tactile and well-tuned (post-travel is okay, pre-travel is not.) Side buttons should be large and you shouldn't need to readjust your grip to hit them (whatever happened to the G303SE is a travesty.) This is even more important for shapes which are intended to suit a particular grip style since you can be even more purposeful with their placement.
Continuing on topic with side buttons, I've never found the standard placement for mouse-5 to be accommodating or accessible, even with 20.5x10.5cm hands. Why is it always so far forward? Surprise surprise, the XM1's side buttons are amongst my favourite, but it would be significantly improved if the relative size of mouse4 and mouse5 were swapped and they were both translated back one or two cm.
I don’t like to support companies that just straight up copy others work. I respect companies that put in the actual effort into r&d, and not just hype marketing. I also wish more companies would manufacture their products somewhere else other than China, for moral reasons.
Reviewers showing gameplay footage to demonstrate the mouse performance is absolutely useless. The mouse is not the reason you got a random 3K in gold nova 2. The current ‘clones’ of zowie shapes don’t deserve to be called clones. The subtle shape changes result in a massive difference in in-hand feel.
I agree with your first point but I think it's just fun to watch people actually use different mice. Fresh Reviews' Apex clips are a nice touch to his videos imo.
I'll give it a pass if they have a mouse cam with the footage, most don't though. At that point the gameplay is useless.
Recently discovered fresh reviews, isn’t he an ex pro player I’ve been told? Also optimum tech, often shows kovaaks scores and footage, pretty sure he’s in the top 99.9% of some scenarios on there.
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I think the majority of YouTubers use it as B-Roll footage to fill in the gaps.
This is depressingly true. I've bought so many mice to replace my many Zowie Fk1's most of them being really similar or clone like, most of them great mice I gave months of testing to and want to use so badly, but my skill was easily half of when I use the Zowie Fk1 and none of them felt even remotely close. I would god damn love to not be stuck on Zowie and use a wireless mouse with great features but fuck me I guess.
When picking shapes, people should be optimizing for comfort and long term health, not for some mythical improvements in aim-trainer scores. Humans are extremely adaptable, and your level of in-game skill will 99.99% depend on the time you put into improving, not the shape of your mouse.
Damn fiend just assassinated half the sub with this XD
Not really, some shapes will limit your hand movements.
Yeah if it's a triangle
thanks razer ive gone out and bought myself a quadraclicks mouse! aim should still be up to par and now my hand health will be great
I think you might have jumped to the wrong conclusion. I didn't say shape is the only decision factor when picking mice. Latency, weight, sensor, durability etc are decision factors too. My comment relates to the thought process behind picking a shape.
I've gone both ways. 2 years ago I changed up my grip/mouse preference and legit felt like an aimbot, had the best performance of my life despite getting older. That lasted for like 8 months, not sure from the grip or just playing too much. After a trip to the chiro and regular arm/shoulder pain, im now optimizing for comfort
In other words, if your trash at the game, the mouse isn't going to change that
This is true. That’s why I don’t use my Viper 8k despite it being the most technologically impressive mouse I own. It’s also the only mouse that makes my hand cramp up. The front flares are just way too aggressive for me. That’s why the Viper V2 Pro is a no go for me. But I’m looking forward to the wireless viper mini. Maybe that will work for me.
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i use mine for geometry dash since its more stable and might as well since i got it for free (shoutout to boardzy) but i couldn't imagine actually maining it as your normal mouse
Is it unpopular around here? I also main it and I'm aiming better than ever. My previous mice were G502, EC2a, mm710, XM1r, G-Wolves Skoll, Model D wireless and now the mm731. The shape is great, the clicks are quieter than normal (very nice for recording), the sensor feels good, the battery life is pretty nice and it feels really solid while being insanely light. I did change the mouse feet, because while they did glide well, they were really thin so a bit of pressure would press the underside of the mouse into my mousepad. I replaced them with some Corepads. My only two complaints are: The mouse should've been a bit longer for my hands. Maybe around 4 millimeters longer and it would've been perfect. Even in it's current state it wasn't hard to adapt my grip a little. And the side buttons should be more forward for the way I grip it. Do people not like the shape? It's definitely a very specific shape or is there something else people don't like about the mouse?
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May not be unpopular as such but low button height and comfort grooves are great. Also GPX is overrated
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It's just a lightweight wireless mouse, there is a ton of them and most of them are cheaper and have more interesting shape
It's hyped up to be an amazing mouse and for some people it is. But I feel a lot of people just get on the "it's the greatest mouse of all time" hype train. By today's standard its got good/average specs. Side buttons are pretty bad. Overall feeling imo is far from the best. Scroll wheel is on point though.
Agreed, I got it when it came out, then got a viper ultimate when that came out, I really prefer the viper way way more but the shape is just too flat for me/slightly too small for my grip. So stuck with the gpx, then got a super light. Just got a xlite v2 wireless today and my god it’s just better in every-way for me, shape, clicks, side buttons, lighter etc
Pulsar has been doing really well. I'm keen to try out their new symm mouse. X2 mini
love this about the mz1
Agreed! I want to try the low back wireless mz1
I need a dpi switch button, just so I can rebind it to something else. I'll take the burden of 1 extra gram to have that privilege.
I like to have two of them actually. Also I use them for dpi switching (but only if I have two of them). Depending on the mood, game and class I play, I sometimes like to use a different dpi.
This is actually one of the reasons I swapped from using the GPX to the 305, aside from shape preference. I just wish Logitech offered some way to bind the DPI button to a "standard" click like all the other buttons (an M6 I guess?), because I'm tired of having my ping function in games tied to a separate command like a page forward or page backward function that might also have some obscure feature I didn't originally know about.
I hate the coating Logitech uses on their mice. I‘d much rather have them change the texture to something like razer‘s instead of being blinded by the immense shine that their mice develop after some heavy use. I‘ve heard the coating is better on their white mice but I‘m still yet to try one.
I'm glad you said this. I absolutely hate the logitech coating, it feels slimey to me somehow. It's not even like it's sweat, I have dry hands!
Thank god someone said this. I love my g pro superlight but the coating is so bad and it bothers my OCD like symptoms that I just use the white G305 or another mouse. I wish they made it with coating options or something.
The skins that came with in the box definitely helped with this for me when it was recommended by another user here. I just didn’t know how to grip it and the slipping from the shape didn’t allow me to hold it the same way consistently. The skins eliminated that
Razer's new coating is so good. I love zowie but man my favourite thing about the new Viper V2 is the coating.
god i cant use the gpro bc of the coating
Everything should have optical switches, click feel be damned. I'm already up to 20ms debounce on my xlite and need to get new switches, haven't had that mouse for even a year. Every other mouse I've had with mechanical switches have failed, double clicked, or both. Meanwhile the deathadder I got with opticals still feel great, have never had a single false click, etc. Razer is on the right track and I hope every mouse switches to opticals because of it.
I've had 2 xlites, a v1 and v2, and used them both for a few months at 0ms denounce with no double clicking. In fact I've never had a mouse double click and I used to main logitech mice for years, g502 and g403, with the old omron 50m switches that were famous for double clicking. I hate opticals and wish every mouse would have the xm1r clicks, but I get where you're coming from if that's your experience.
I also used mine for the first few months without double clicks. Then I had to raise it to 2ms, then 4, then 8, now I'm at 20 and I still see them sometimes. It's not a matter of bad luck or anything either, it's just a flaw with the way mechanical switches are designed and you WILL see double clicks at some point, weather you've noticed it or not. Opticals are very close to the feel of mechanical switches and if more manufactures like logitech invested in them they would likely surpass mech switches. But even if they felt a little bit worse, I'd happily take that trade-off if it meant my switches had no chance of failing.
if companies gave half of a shit about their products and not solely on profits they would use latch debouncing on all of their mechanical switch mice, it's so vastly superior that it's not even funny. it allows for ridiculous low click latencies, 0 lag debounce, and (or very low) chance of double clicking. 2 years down the line, not 1 single instance of an m1k/m2k double clicking afaik
And I hope there will be optical switches you can put in your old mice because I'm not getting a new one!
Not how that works, optical switches need a different PCB.
Oh damn that's unfortunate. Guess I'm changing switches each 2 years for now
and optical scroll wheels
The Zowie scroll wheel is the best scroll wheel. On every other mouse brand I will accidentally jump from time to time. But on Zowie I never misjump and never misclick.
i thought i was the only one. for games like cs/val that super tactile stiff wheel is super nice, but i can see how people wouldnt appreciate it for other games or daily driver stuff (i used to use another mouse with an infinite scroll like the mx master series to combat that, plus it makes zowie mice feel much lighter when going between the two)
Absolutely disagree, it is the bane of my existence on these god tier shapes. Upvoted
this only happens on unpopular opinions posts lmao
i also like steelseries. they are not the best but imo they have the best looking mice. my first real "gamer" mouse was the rival 110.
Do you guys really require the mouse to be less than 80g? Are your bones made of noodles or something?
1-3-1
Combining super fast mouse pads with fast feet is dumb. Shit software like Ghub\Synapse is still better than no software at all(especially for wireless mice priced at 100$+).
>Shit software like Ghub\Synapse is still better than no software at all This 1000x. Also I don't even think Synapse is bad anymore. It has A LOT of features, stays out of the way, and on most of their mice you can just load your shit onto the mouse then uninstall it.
i main sapphires + shidenkai (until it wears down atleast) and i dont get the hate on fast stuff. ive always used fast pads so my aim is adjusted already and i think theyre the most fun. when my shidenkai wears out ill go to to my artisan g2 U which is still a faster pad just not shidenkai fast. its a fun setup
Yeah there's really like no game I see a benefit to being able to move your mouse that fast outside like fucking osu. And I agree with the software thing, but it's weird that none of the software from major gaming peripheral companies are very good.
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Lack of control.
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thats what im thinking. sub 50g mouse + shidenkai/sapphires and my aim isnt horrendously bad or anything. you just have to rely on your hand stopping the mouse more
Well, it can be usable for tracking in some games, but in games like CS:GO it's borderline unusable, you can't flick consistently when you have no stopping power.
I can't speak for them but in my case the lack of control starts to hurt my wrist pretty fast.
Shit software is alright unless it's Armory Crate. Armory Crate is so bad.
I beg to differ, Armory Crate has been good to me. Better than G-Hub, at the very least.
Agreed! I've had no issues with Armory Crate.
* comfort grooves are objectively better * Raw matte abs plastic is better than 99% of coatings * Zowie/Vaxee scroll wheels aren't that much much more tactile and are just really loud * Sensor circlejerking is stupid and no one needs anything better than a well implemented 3360 * Short mice in the perpendicular to mousepad direction are stupid. less room to grip makes mice need to be lighter just to maintain maneuverability.
>comfort grooves are objectively better I definitely prefer comfort grooves over something like a flat box but I dislike extremely deep grooves that force your hand to a grip you might not like. >Raw matte abs plastic is better than 99% of coatings Actually agree with this. Raw matte plastic "feels" cheaper than but it's grippy enough without being sticky on my palms even in humid weather. My MM731 has a "cheap" feeling raw plastic texture but I prefer it over any other coating just because of it's functionality. > Zowie/Vaxee scroll wheels aren't that much much more tactile and are just really loud Agree, terrible terrible scroll wheels. > Sensor circlejerking is stupid and no one needs anything better than a well implemented 3360 Other than battery life, yeah.
The Zowie scroll wheel has tactile feedback from those little spring loaded bumps, I don’t find them to feel as sharp as I think they intend though. They are in fact just heavy, loud scrolls lol. C series FK2 I have feels better though.
> Sensor circlejerking is stupid Haha yeah those guys who are saying the 3395 is so much more accurate are just so full of shit. It’s not like switching from a 60hz monitor to a 240hz where you can actually see a difference.
GPX is overhyped and boring
Weight is playing way too big of a role. Sub 80g is light enough, y'all need to hit the gym a bit.
Seriously. If you are able to lift a sandwich to your mouth and eat, then 70-80 gram mice should not be a problem. The phone you are typing on is likely 200-ish grams for reference and y’all are probably on that thing alllll day lol.
Well put!
My brother in christ I do not swipe my sandwich around hundreds of times before I eat it. My phone is also very heavy but aside from holding it above my face I am not worried about its weight or inertia. That being said, 75g is pretty good but I’d always prefer lighter for my style of very relaxed claw. Much heavier and I have to give the mouse more palm support to keep control of it.
Yup, folks get the lightest mice they can, and find out that it's too slippery for control, then spend additional dollars on a mousepad which provides control. If a heavy mouse can slide well on a cheap hard mousepad, then why even bother with lighter mice? - only a small subset of folks lift their mouse in gaming, which is when mouse weight comes into play.
I legit don't know how anyone aims with Tiger Ice on super light mice. It's literally uncontrollable unless I'm playing some basic tracking game
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Of course if there are health factors it's different, but most people just chase lower and lower weight, mutilating their mice etc. Also, shape is way more important than weight for countering carpal tunnel. Ergo mice help you keep the wrist more neutral, hence less chance of impingement of the carpal tunnel. But if you do have CTS, conservative care is generally not very effective so if you can afford it I'd strongly suggest a surgery if the problem persists. It's relatively simple and very effective. (am a 3rd year physio student)
I can agree that chasing the lightest and gutting mice is often not worth it. You can lose out on the solid feeling of the mouse and it’s hard to get that back. I disagree that a heavy mouse is just as effective as a light one though. Fingertip type motions are much easier on a light mouse and you are given more freedom when you need it. If you hard claw all the time though the weight won’t matter as much. That’s really where the difference in opinion on weight originates imo, whether or not people use a lot of palm support or not.
Yes I agree. My point was just about diminished returns. Reducing weight will help with control only to a certain point, after which it will just make it harder to control the mouse, not to mention having to cut out features to get the lower weight. I use fingertip grip, and with my Model O- (69g) coming from an old FK2 (100g+), I'm already at the limit on how low I can go without sacrificing stability with my shaky and stiff hands.
The problem isn't that >=80g is too heavy or strenuous to lift a mouse or that it wears you out while playing. I don't think people say or mean that and rather think you're completely missing the point that having lightweight mouse *allows* you to handle a mouse differently than you otherwise would. The heavier the mouse, the more the interfacial traction between your skin and the mouse surface matters, the more *inertia* matters, and the more tightly you need to (or *less* delicately you *can*) grip your mouse in order to stabilize it while dealing with higher momentum impulses during acceleration/pitch/etc. You can play table tennis with a tennis ball but it's not the same game.
I think the G502 is a great mouse. It would most likely be my endgame if my hands weren't so small, or if Logi finds a way to make a smaller version of it.
I totally agree. The G502 is an excellent mouse. A workhorse and gaming monster, but it needs an update and a smaller version. 100+ grams isn’t really a smart buy in today’s mouse market imo
r/g502masterrace
SS Prime series gets unneeded flak. Agreed, the shape is incredible and I hate IME styled shapes. To me, it's a vastly superior EC2. Also has the best feeling optical clicks. Most people here would probably like it, but they're more into irrelevant talking points (like feet color), or how a cable just doesn't flop enough.
I do agree that the shape is actually awesome but I personally find the main buttons really bad in game for spamming, and the side button design is awful. Also, a $130 (original price) wireless mouse with a 3335 and over 80g is very questionable. I would have used the wired version more if I didn't hate every one of the clicks in game, personal opinion. If they can revamp it with a 3395, new side button design, and under 70g, hopefully with improved magnetic switches since the idea is cool, then I would probably give a go with it as my main, but I doubt any of that.
I agree that it is a better shape than the ec2. And I love the rounded ledge where I can comfortably place my ring finger on it. The button feels nice and snappy, but the tap fire timing in csgo feels different than most mice I tried idk why. Definitely need some getting used to. Besides the KPU, this is my favourite shape out of many mice I tried.
I like heavier mice.
Unless you need that exact shape, buying a mouse that costs 100 euros or more is unnecessary. There is definitely a cheaper alternative that will do the job for you just as well.
I go from a 40 something gram starlight to a 97 gram S1 because it really doesn’t fucking matter.
I'll take better build quality over weight all day long.
The HyperX Pulsefire Haste is the best value mouse on the market. GPX Superlight, Viper Ult. and V2 Pro, and Superglides are overrated. "High performance" mouse pads are unnecessary and a gimmick. Weight is not as important as marketing makes it seem, as long as the mouse is below 80ish grams it's lightweight enough.
Yea this sub hates steelseries for dumb reasons. The prime mini wireless is one of my favorite mice all time and I own a lot including gpx and viper v2. Aerox 5 is comfy and the aerox 3 2022 is fantastic for claw grip. People just have a bad taste in their mouths about them from poor quality maybe 2-3 years ago.. but all of steelseries recent products are great and I'll die on this hill that I prefer them over any razer mice at the moment. Even big youtubers shit on steelseries all the time for dumb reasons. Also, corsair are pretty well known for making terrible mice for fps gaming.... but the sabre rgb pro wireless is one of the most comfy ergonomic mice I've ever used and hits a lot of good marks in weight + sensor + one of the only 2000hz wireless mice (if not the only one). Pretty underrated mouse tbh and if corsair can follow that path with their other shapes then the sentiment on their mice will surely change.
I wouldn't call 11ms of click latency a dumb reason to dislike the Prime Mini, especially since it's been months since release with no fix. As for Corsair, their "2000hz" is faked with duplicated polls sent at USB FS intervals. Both companies are (slowly) heading in the right direction, but there's definitely valid reasons to avoid both of them for now.
And don't forgot, it was $130 msrp for a wireless mouse using a 3335 in 2021. And also the infamous side button design they use.
You are out of touch on why we hate on Steelseries. Let me enlighten you: They always screw their mice one way or the other. The problem starts by using 3335 sensor and trying to sell above 100$, anything that costs over 80$ should be using at least a 3370. I enjoyed the Aerox 3 shape but I can't understand few things 1. They have holes in the back and the base to cut on weight but the mouse inside has 10G of useless plastic that only serves reflect the RGB 2. Its a fairly low profile and medium sized mouse that most people will use for fingertip, why not make it 60G? 3. Cheap as fuck coating, its this rough surface that provides no gripiness at all. 4. Worst sidebuttons I have tried, long skinny and stiff. Prime Mini wireless is acceptable but if you bothered to mod it you would find few decisions questionable again: 1. Why use a massive 550mah battery? Its 11G instead of 200-300mah like most mice ( including the Aerox 3 ). Its fine for the Mini but the normal Prime comes at 81G. 2. Given its huge battery you would expect the mouse to last for weeks well it barely goes 3. G303SE uses a 500mah and I honestly can't tell you how long it lasts, shit goes on for like 5 weeks. 3. Their optical switches feel amazing but they have failed to address the latency issues with them 4. Side buttons are skinny but I honestly have no trouble finding them and they are very well tensioned.
Vertical range of motion offered by claw/fingertip grip is overrated. It’s not like you can no longer aim vertically if you just hold your mouse comfortably. And if you use low sens that finger vertical motion will be too minuscule to matter anyway. Having constraints in your finger range of motion can actually be a good thing.
Yeah, got a love-hate relationship with SS. Nearly everything about the SS Prime mini I absolutely love. Clicks are bar none my favorite out of any mechanical or optical I’ve tried. Shape is one of like 2 mice I’ve used that is ergo without feeling like a goofy brick. Coating is fantastic. Minimal and tasteful RGB lighting. 2 things hold it back, a garbage-y old sensor while being sold at a premium price point, and significant click delay despite using gosh dang optical switches. If they fixed those two issues it would easily be in my top 3.
The quality of scoll wheels in the last 5 years has fallen off a cliff. Scratchy, noisy, scroll jumping garbage across basically every brand.
not an opinion but wireless has inherent drawbacks (weight, battery, negligible latency but still present and price) for opinions, optical scrollwheels should be the norm
My semi-unpopular opinion is that mice with significant amounts of unnecessary weight are dumb and should be criticized. They aren’t people, I don’t need to worry about their feelings. Also there’s nothing chad about using a heavy mouse, you’re just missing out on quicker adjustments and long term comfort. You do get the benefit of smoother deceleration but that’s the only reason I could imagine you’d want to use a 75g mouse instead of a 50g one.
I dislike the recent trend of "clicky" and "crisp" mouse clicks. Yes they are both of those but they also tend to require more force to click which leads to them being unusable for me due to finger strain. Orochi v2 was by far the worst clicks for arpg's I've tried. I wish more mice had clicks like the G303 as it is I haven't found any recently released mice with comparable clicks. Also I prefer the GPW over the GPX.
Weight doesn’t matter as much as a lot of people here think. And holes on the mouse are an instant no buy for me as I have a cat that somehow gets hair everywhere
I concur! I prefer heavy mice, but I do have a few light ones too. You are correct about the holes - My Xlite V2 Wireless has a couple of cat hairs in it, lol.
Every small fingertip grip mouse currently out is flawed in some shape or form. MZ1 is too narrow, and the mousewheel position is too far forward. Nice QC though, best clicks I've ever used. Orochi egg shape is bad for pure fingertip grip because if you hold the mouse further back to avoid the hump touching your palm, the taper fucks with your pinky finger placement. Hati-S ACE wireless had build quality issues (bad clicks w/ lots of pre and post travel, slam clicking issues, my copy has sensor issues too). mm711-710 have terrible QC and I'll never, ever buy a coolermaster product again. Dat shape though. Finalmouse mice don't exist and anyone who says otherwise is just a product our collective imaginations. HSK probably has the same issues as the Hati-S. Viper mini is slightly too narrow and the sensor LOD is ass, and the cable is ass. Dem clicks and shape though.
just get m2k at this point btw
how does bad qc relate to the shape of a mouse?
Can you refer to a part of my statement where I appear to believe "bad qc relates to the shape of a mouse"? Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems like you're just trying to put words in my mouth so you can say "Aha, got you!".
What about Zaunkoenig m2k?
I'm holding back on that one for a couple of reasons, 1st being price, 2nd was the cord, and last was the lack of a bottom plate, I feel like something would probably go wrong, given my luck.
I'm holding back on that one for a couple of reasons, 1st being price, 2nd was the cord, and last was the lack of a bottom plate, I feel like something would probably go wrong, given my luck.
Lightweight mice are objectively better than heavier mice. Same with low static friction skates and skate surface area. Sure shape is important depending on your grip but a lighter mouse will always be better than a heavier one. People that disagree are either lying to themselves or just don’t want to go through the adjustment period of a lighter mouse.
This. If hypothetical mouse was 0g, shape wouldn't matter at all almost.
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>mz1 clicks felt too heavy Not a well though decision to use fairly stiff and tactile switches on a purely fingertip mouse. M2K uses Jap Omrons and FM believe force bin their GM8.0s to be lighter something like that.
80-90 grams is perfectly fine for a mouse. I think some of you just need to exercise
Despite terrible PR, business practices, and quality, Finalmouse is the most innovative and influential mouse company out there and their products are really impressive if you’re lucky to get a copy without major QC issues. They’ve been consistently setting trends for enthusiast grade products that other companies later cloned for cheaper and with better quality.
Other than chasing lower weight, I can't think of one thing truly innovative that they've done. Am I missing something?
They first put paracord on their mice out of the box. Also, ultralightweight is a huge trend right now and they deserve a bit more recognition for starting it.
disagree and upvoted. there are plenty of other companies that have been far more influential whether shape wise, weight wise or technical side. zaunkoenig is miles ahead of finalmouse in every category. zowie had influence over the shape meta in the past 10 years much like microsoft had huge influence when zowie was starting out. ppl downvoting you for posting an unpopular opinion in an unpopular opinion thread is rly funny tho
The only thing i can say:xDDDDD
INNOVATIVE (makes mouse of magnesium) OMG THAT'S IMPRESSIVE
They first made a mouse with honeycomb holes in it kickstarting the whole "ultralightweight" trend. They first put a paracord on the mouse out of the box when it was starting as a mod only done by enthusiast. Not quite sure why you're being so sarcastic about magnesium, which is another true innovation nobody has even cloned yet, a year later.
Wireless is overrated imo. Unless you are playing with extremely low sens, you will feel nothing with mouse bungee. I'm a low sens player using Vaxee mice and never had any problems. I don't feel their "terrible" stiff paracode cable. Maybe there are just that many extreme low sens players here on reddit but I doubt it. I prioritize better build quality and shape with lower price.
Disagree, even if its using the smoothest or the thinnest paracord like the LGG ones, I can still feel the wires. My brain subconsciously thinking that I'm dragging the mouse cable with it even if I use medium or high sens It's the reason why I went for wireless
fair if you actually feel it and bothers you. In my case I don't feel it and even if I do, like when I have to turn 180 real fast which rarely happens, it has zero effect on my actual aim performance. I agree that the wireless mice are nice but it just does not justify the price increase for me.
I only play csgo and wired mouse doesn’t bother me at all i don’t care if the cable is rubber , braided , paracord , stiffer cable , loose cable. My sens is 2.20, dpi 400 , edpi of 880 , 47/360cm Twistzz won a major using an ec2-c + zowie camade 2 his cm is 74.22/360cm , sens 1.4 , dpi 400 , edpi 560 Zywoo doesn’t use a mouse bungee in lan he just throws the cable and start popping heads WIRED MOUSE WON’T HINDER YOUR AIM YOU JUST SUCK GIT GUD
What is the sens you are using? I've noticed people have completely different definitions of what low sens is.
Yea I've noticed that too lol Mine is 400 dpi 0.48 in Valorant and 400 dpi 2.5 in Apex. (68cm 360 valorant and 41cm in Apex according to mousesensitivity.com)
I don’t know about that guy but I use, 0.205 1600 DPI = 328.0 eDPI and I can’t stand wired mice even if it’s a paracord on a bungee had it with my viper mini just couldn’t stand it felt like it dragged sometimes so I switched to the Orochi V2. I feel like paracord are sometimes worse because of how loose they are, I personally need a little stiffness in my wired mice.
Which game are you talking about? Valorant? Personally I can use a wired mouse if I don't have any other option, but it does feel like a direct downgrade compared to wireless. The amount of freedom you get with wireless is definitely worth it for me. I never got around the problem of occasionally getting the cable under my mouse which made it impossible for me to enjoy wired mice.
Yeah for val, tbh vertical movements were what irritated me the most while using a wired mice but then again the viper mini is the perfect shape for me sometimes I go back to it but the Orochi v2 is pretty good as well just not fan of using batteries.
I prefer wireless as my cats chew on wires when they feel like it ;)
>Wireless is overrated imo. Unless you are playing with extremely low sens, you will feel nothing with mouse bungee. when i go to my bed to watch a movie that wired mouse isnt coming with me
Ppl in this sub uses way too much "I have the same handsize" "I have almost the same handsize" "My hands are similiar" and so on. Mouse are mm different from on another in size which means a guy with 20cm hands may love a mice that one with 20.2cm will hate. Me for example have 20.5 hands and hate the haste cuz these few extra mm makes my ring finger sit on the right corner which makes it very uncomfortable. Same with Viper, if my hands were 20.0cm instead I would love it but they actually overhang in the front cuz of 3mm +-. Unfortunately you can only get a good fit buying and trying many mice, some get more lucky than others but buying like 10 mices till you narrow down your preferences is pretty much mandatory. I strongly advice zowie fitting kit for anyone that can rent that, may save you a lot of time and money.
Glossy > matte
The current market is too focused on making mice as light as possible. As a result, large mice have been forgotten, and us with large hands have a shit selection to pick from compared to everyone else. If all these companies can make "mini" versions of their mice then they can make XL ones too. I don't care if it's heavier, I just want something that fits.
Amen. Also, I don't design mice but I believe a large mouse can still be relatively lightweight. 85 grams, I mean look at the Naga X.
HyperX Haste is one of the worst shapes ever created
I like how comments like yours get downvoted when op literally asks for an un popular opinion
welcome to r/MouseReview
Welcome to Reddit, where 99% of the time the downvote button means somebody was slightly displeased by your comment or post.
I was gonna downvote, but then I saw this, and I was like "man has a point". Enjoy your updoot
My favourite shape 🥺
Works for me 🤪
Damn, I just ordered one
Well, it IS and UNPOPULAR opinion. It's personally my favorite shape
Ok this is gonna be super controversial Weight does not matter, is the mouse specs and if the shape is very comfortable for a person's hand for long period of use... Ironically I have a 76 gram mouse but I like it not just because of the weight, but because of the shape is very good for my claw and fingertip (pwnage symm oem) and the specs are decent for the price.
76g is heavy? I use the G303SE a lot with it 75g but also my starlights and the M2K with 23g. I can understand how the weight of a mouse could be preferential but lower weight makes a big difference for micro corrections.
Thats why I said "Ironically..." Cuz imo its not heavy at all.
Weight is playing way too big of a role. Sub 80g is light enough, y'all need to hit the gym a bit.
Sensor positioning is a non issue, Just get used to it
Sensor positioning is just preference like claw or palm and it is an issue if you lift the mouse a certain way or your used to gripping the mouse more forward. Yes you can get used to it like you can get used to an unnatural grip but sometimes it's just simply more comfortable for some people to have a higher position.
Weight doesn't matter as long as the muscles in your hand are strong enough
Nope
your hands probably aren't actually so big that you can't use the mini versions of mice stock feet are fine and I've only felt the need to replace them after they're worn out (1+ year of use) I literally see my aim superstar teammate pop 1 taps left and right with stock feet at the bottom for their GPX, they fine lol
The Viper v2 pro is a better mouse than the superlight in every way and people are hating on it unnecessarily just because of the price. When the superlight was the same price for the longest time. Hell the pink superlight is still 150$ on Amazon and look how many people bought that in the past few months. The viper has better clicks(v3 optical are great), better side buttons(the GPX ones are garbage), a better sensor, lighter, better stock coating, and better included grip tape. The only thing I will say is worse is razer synapse but I just set it up once then uninstall it. Shape is subjective but the safe shape of the gpro I am not a fan of.
click wobble is worst bro… otherwise maybe youre right
finalmouse is held to a much much higher standard than other companies and part of it is at this point really ridicolous. like yall mfs be getting your magnifing glasses out on the scroll wheel to find issues.
G-Wolves SK-S should be the default budget mouse recommendation instead of the Razer Viper Mini. Stupid light at 47g, detachable cable, excellent skates, spare skates and grips included in box, fantastic smaller EC2 shape, good software, packaging several tiers above what it should be for a $30 mouse you can get via Prime. It's slept on so severely, and I hate it.
That the new g303 se is actually a great shape. As someone who tried the older shape years back I never liked it then but the new shape I prefer over my other mice and every time I try a new shape I always end up going back to the g303
Stock mouse feet > aftermarket. They always have more control. They just take a while to break into to get a consistent glide, and most people replace stock mouse feet pretty much immediately. Scratchiness doesn't matter, thickness doesn't matter. Mouse feet don't wear out within a year, that's regular break in. I've used a G403/DA2013 stock for like 6+ years and never had issues. Many pros don't replace their mouse feet at all and keep using the same mouse for years while getting in 12+hours of use a day. Okay there are some off brand mice that have truly terrible and non-existent feet but that's another issue. I agree that the GPX is overrated, however the 'safeness' of the shape makes it more consistent than other shapes. It's one of those shapes that doesn't get in the way no matter what grip you have and is far more comfortable than a FK/Viper clone. The EC2 shape is one of the worst shapes I've ever used, and the Zowie texture is probably the worst I've ever felt. You really can't understand a shape of a mouse through a video, no matter how much you study it. You have to hold it in person to properly judge it. I've tried like 30+ mice and each time there was always some aspect of the shape that completely changed my perception of the mouse.
Lots of eSports superstars here think that any mouse > 75g is bad, lol. I've gotten down voted for saying that I like the Asus ROG Chakram & G502 Lightspeed.
It makes a difference if 1 millisecond faster can win you a tournament
The point is that this Subreddit is for MOUSE review, not ESPORTS MOUSE review. So, getting down voted for liking mice unsuitable for eSports is ridiculous.
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this is an actual braindead take lmaooo
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bro first off, where are the studies, and second, that depends on what you classify as heavy. sure, 300g isn’t optimal but like 100g while somewhat heavy is very very usable
No, he is 100% right.
must… use…. 30 gram… mouse….
Please, send us the medical studies related to what you say. Thanks.
As you should
MMO mice are the best. There should be a lot more of them from major brands.
Do you use them for FPS games as well or just MMOs? Many years ago I used a Naga for FPS, back when the side buttons were more stiff. Of course that led me to some thumb issues so I switched to less side buttons but the shape was way better for ME than any other mouse. When I play single player FPS, I use the naga x.
The reddragon m901 is the best mouse I’ve ever used I love the texture the shape and I use it with all the weights. But the software is finicky at best
Not sure whether it's unpopular but the mouse itself is. I'm talking about the shape of B100. It's really comfortable and can be used both with left and right hand. They should make a wireless version of it
I hate low button height. Uncomfortable and difficult to hold mouse optimally. Forces hand a bit farther back which causes m1/m2 presses to happen on the back of the button & require more force. Makes it difficult to get pinky on the mouse at all for me with something like a gpx unless I drop back to a higher point. Part of this might be because I'm very left hand dominant but mouse with my right. The "writing" analogy is worthless to me. The other part might be I have super wide but really average length hands. I can use a gpx, but it's significantly easier to use a g703 (fingertip or whatever claw flavor). I still main gpx because 703 is too heavy for me. I dislike how stiff pretty much every mouse switch is.
I main a stralight 12 posiedon and it's easily the best mouse i've used (I got lucky and have 0 qc issues)
I like Razer's PBT-like coating on their plastics. Everyone else complains about them (or maybe it's some sort of reverse confirmation bias). I dislike stock rubber sides or aftermarket grips because my skin/sweat is mildly acidic, so in my hands mice with these end up looking janky. My old G403 has a big ol' indent in the thumbrest area. They do look great though because they provide a pop of color especially to pure black or white mice.
Finalmouse despite being a bad product are good tools. Zowie makes the best scroll wheels for gaming. Paracords other than Ceesa's flail around too much when gaming, *most* stock cables + bungie are better Logitech stock feet are fine after break in 16 step > 24 step for competitive games Viper mini is not a safe recommendation for most people, it's just very budget friendly. This is not a hobby, it's consumerism (which is fine, just be honest about it) 2/3 (probably more) of the posts made on a daily basis break rule 4 and should be deleted more regularly. (Popular): Polls spread misinformation and should be banned
Logitech factory feet on the Superlight and 303SE aren't as bad as people say.
FPS mouse (left click, right click, mouse wheel, fwd and back buttons) that fills 99% of this sub are boring.
Finalmouse QC isn't better or worse compared to mice made in other factories except for chunad, chunad is a steaming hot pile of garbage & This sub is actively toxic towards anything finalmouse. My [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/v6in09/z/ibgk795) here proves my point Kailhs GM 8.0 are a fucking meme switch, if you ever opened one up you'd see the absolute shit of a contact design, don't be surprised to see lots of GM 8.0 mice double click even if they have proper asymmetrical debounce, zippy DF3-P1 (white pin) best mechanical switch.
hate it or not i like using 0 debounce to double click/click stupidly fast. double clicking is just useful for everyday stuff like opening something on your desktop or selecting a word, clicking fast sounds nice and is amazing for when you would want an autoclicker but dont want to cheat
Everyone here loves the pulsar xlite but I feel like the only one here who can't handle the slits. I palm grip and it feels like the slit is cutting into each fold of the M on my palm.
I think that any lighter than 30 grams is just uncontrollable, giant mousefeet should be the norm, ceramic skates are useless, speedpads aren’t worth it for 99% of games because it fucks flicking and doesn’t help tracking, and side holes done right as well as rear honeycombing literally doesn’t matter. The big one though is this: your mouse and pad, beyond click hardness, weight, some parts of shape, and glide feel, does not matter hardly at all and people who really think that one gram, one MM here or there, or little things like that make them subconsciously play worse are full of it whether they know it or not. It’s super fun and cool to try new mice and mice are fricken cool, but to get good you have to really learn with one. Yeah tenz switches, but he was born with a mouse in his hand. Getting another mouse will not make you good, learning on a good one will. Most of these aren’t true for everyone, there are some great speed pad flicking aimers, and I can see people using sub 30 grams, but for everything else, I think it’s true Edit: And people should sell their mice they aren’t using (with exceptions of mice they might go back to or are sentimental about)
I like quiet clicks now.
Endgame Gear's glossy surface (dark reflex) is the best on the market for people with dry hands. Low and medium-wide with great back support (a la XM1) is still in its infancy and there's a lot of phase space to be explored. I guess it isn't that uncommon to hear people hope for a smaller XM1, but this goes beyond that imo. Designers continue to undervalue the importance of side button placement and size. They should be pronounced, accessible, tactile and well-tuned (post-travel is okay, pre-travel is not.) Side buttons should be large and you shouldn't need to readjust your grip to hit them (whatever happened to the G303SE is a travesty.) This is even more important for shapes which are intended to suit a particular grip style since you can be even more purposeful with their placement. Continuing on topic with side buttons, I've never found the standard placement for mouse-5 to be accommodating or accessible, even with 20.5x10.5cm hands. Why is it always so far forward? Surprise surprise, the XM1's side buttons are amongst my favourite, but it would be significantly improved if the relative size of mouse4 and mouse5 were swapped and they were both translated back one or two cm.
I don’t like to support companies that just straight up copy others work. I respect companies that put in the actual effort into r&d, and not just hype marketing. I also wish more companies would manufacture their products somewhere else other than China, for moral reasons.
I love mushy and optical switches because I think it clicks faster with the.mushy part
Vaxee scroll wheels are incredible. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to destroy something perfect.