By - throway4r
No offense, but these threads are just totally pointless now. I'm all for the free exchange of ideas, but most threads like this could just be comments posted in the equivalent thread that gets posted near-daily. It's not like the opinions expressed here are so original and insightful (not that I vehemently disagree) that urgent attention needs to be drawn to them.
Every single time this topic gets enough traffic, the responses are the same:
"Don't ban X, ban Y instead."
"This! The problem is Y, Y is singlehandedly ruining the meta."
"Actually, Z is the problem. Ban Z instead."
"This. I won't elaborate, but the fact that I agree is enough to justify its own post."
*Comment score below threshold* "Actually, I don't think anything should be banned."
"Of course you would say that, you just want a pay2win rotating format and you're probably on WotC's payroll, you filthy shill."
"I read in 500 other reddit posts before this one that the only reason X, Y, and Z aren't dominating is because they're too expensive for the average destitute magic the gathering player to afford. If cards were free, all 32 of the top 32 challenge decks would play X, Y, and Z."
We need to ban posts about banning Ragavan.
We talking about the Reddit meta now?
Lacks diversity, but at least it’s not prohibitively expensive.
We need to ban posts about banning posts about banning Ragavan.
Ragavan is fine. It has a high ceiling but it’s floor isn’t so high. People just remember the games it pilfers a Fury (which does feel like cheating sometimes) vs when it gets 3 lands in a row.
I had a murktide player cast my Archon of Cruelty off of a Ragavan at a 20k...
I'll never recover
I hit boros garrison off my titan opponent's deck in games 2 and 3. The tilt was high. Even hitting lands can tilt!
Ragavan sucks but he’s nowhere near as unfun as teferi, omnath, and other crap
Flimsy Valki combo deck ?
Are you talking about Tibalts Treachery ?
Because Cascade Valki was absolutely disgusting
Cascade valki was not okay in any shape or form.
Your take is objectively wrong at two points: valki cascade was only played for a small time frame. it used to cascade into tibalt on t2 frequently thus having a near-game-ending combo available. they emergency banned the combo by errata since the whole meta was turning towards this deck (at this point win rate does not matter at all, since everyone was playing the deck).
eggs/approach/kci was banned due to slow playing patterns and minuted of yombo with no deterministic win. this is so far from ragavan‘s playstyle and our two points of comparison are kind of dumb imo.
Those were some of the similar situations I could think of. If they don’t apply then we’re in unprecedented times and maybe the monkey stays after all.
No they were not remotely similar. one was “emergency ban due to being broken, just after a few days“, the other was “slowplay issues"
non of this is true for ragavan
Omnath not even showing up in the latest Modern Challenge... Reddit:"Ban Moneypile (I can't afford it)"
True. Everyone complains that "playing 4 colors is too easy, mana is too good. Ban X to make mana bad."
But if 4c is too good why aren't you playing it? Answer: it's expensive. Fetchlands are not cheap and you need a lot of them. There's nothing wrong with not owning fetches, it's not a moral failing.
People are out here pretending that they have moral objections to omnath but really it's just copium.
I understand your point but I disagree with you.
I think ragavan is something that is as broken as it can be in its curve that bears the absurd. I think people don't see they because MH2 bears the absurd in most cards.
And I wouldn't call a healthy meta a metagame that is basically MH2 Tribal in all colors.
Following this design logic, what's going to be the next LOTR set? is modern going to get LOTR tribal? And what about MH3?
Ragavan is just a symptom of an open door of more busted and powerfull cards along the way.
Maybe I'm over reacting and still grieving over the fact that modern is a forced rotating format right now, which was exactly the thing I didn't want when I started this game 8 years ago.
This is what dawned upon me. Standard is trash so they pivoted to Modern as the new rotating format.
Modern no longer exists as an eternal non rotating format. They saw all the money they could make printing these monkeys and they will never look back.
The good old days are long behind us.
It's just like when you remember the most traumatic event of your entire life and than "well, it is what it is".
Plus, another problem of an eternal "rotating" format: it saturates.
There will come a time where modern will or (1) become a rotating ban list format (2) will be left in the open like Legacy or (3) it's philosophy of turn 3 decks will go into another format (pioneer in this case).
But then, even pioneer will eventually saturate, then they will have to create a pioneer 2.0, retire Pioneer as the new modern and Modern as Legacy 2.0.
Seriously with this rate of direct cards into modern I don't give pioneer 5 years to become what Modern is right now.
W6 gives every deck perfect mana t2. Omnath costs 4 hard different mana symbols and requires lands to do stuff. Which do you think is a problem? Ravagan is annoying yes but ultimately he’s just a dumb card that has high variance.
Yeah, W6 just doesn’t seem to be as emotionally charged as Ragavan so W6 gets overlooked. 2 mana planeswalker is tier 1.
If w6 is in every g/r deck, and decks go as far as to splash into it, maaaybe hes the problem
Ragavan's biggest grief point is his price, if we're being blatantly obvious. He's pushed as hell, but in a Fury meta, that's basically what a 1 toughness creature has to be. Wrenn and Six, Iteration, maybe the jellybean or Pyrokinesis Deluxe, but Monke isnt going anywhere for a decent while.
Legacy was different, Monke had a lot more opportunity to steal spells and run away with games there. Modern across the board puts more fat in his way, so he gets to just be a staple but not format warping.
This is the spot on analysis we need, but don’t deserve.
This. Monkey won’t be a problem if it’s $5.
Also monkey in legacy was good cuz it dominated the URx mirror. Post-ban delver actually got better vs other decks. Also daze is always the card that keeps delver as tier 0
It could be a problem later on if they start the ban train again. W6 is easily the biggest target for a ban, and it might deserve it, but Ragavan could do a bit more in a format without it.
Self-reported throwaway account says rag is fine?
Post on your main, coward!
My main is this now, deleted my other main because people kept background checking my post history for ad hominem attacks when they disagreed with me.
Clearly what they need to do is just stick Ragavan in every Commander thing they do from now until the end of time.
Commander players don't care about the monke, so there'd be more copies for Modern. The price drops, and the frustrating feeling that monke is pay2win goes away.