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Deb1337

Same thing in my place(Covid and MH2 outbudged many players in my area). Our regular events consisted of 14-18 people and the past year we had to run the modern nights with 6-8 people. But since we are in a very small place, we decided to try 2 things. 1)allow proxy events but if you had your whole deck you paid some less entry fee-this didn't work very well. 2) we are 3 guys that own like 12 complete modern decks that include pretty much all the modern meta game and we started lending the whole deck to the guys that don't have a deck and that way we managed to go back to 12-15 people and we started to grow again.


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Revhan

too bad you can't play sanctioned events with proxys


greenpm33

Good thing WotC killed any reason to care about sanctioning


The-Tree-Of-Might

Only if they don't look good enough


kiwikoi

Yeah Covid had me completely stop playing modern. Only now am I even considering coming back, but the meta seems pretty bleh. I still play edh at home with a few friends once in a while. But probably won’t return to an lgs until I can be ok with the risk of illness.


Noli-Timere-Messorem

Love untap.in


Feler42

The meta is pretty great man. Like all the decks are interactive and fun. The gap between t2 and t1 isn't huge so many decks can pop off and win events.


AlorsViola

Isn't the meta mostly MH2 decks?


ZeldaALTTP

Yeah the meta is MH2 & the gap between tier 1 & 3 is larger than it’s ever been. I used to love modern but it’s garbage nowadays


moush

Yea but he plays one of the top 3 decks so it’s fine.


NotToPraiseHim

Just like anything else, opinions on the meta vary from person to person. I personally find it incredibly stale. I strongly dislike cards like Omnath, ragavan, fury and yorion, and their effect on the wider metagame. Oddly enough, I also dislike cards like prismatic ending amd leyline binding. While I enjoy answers to creatures and planeswalkers being more common, I think the versatility of these answers has significantly degraded niche decks that are reliant on non creature non walker permanents, like Bogles and Lantern. And that doesn't even get into the effect of the looting and opal bans.


Feler42

When there are 10+ decks that I wouldn't Blink twice at Winning a large event I can't agree with it being stale. Sure they share cards but so did decks in every modern meta.


NotToPraiseHim

Sure, like I said it's an opinion. It feels super stale to me. I can speculate on why it feels stale, but I dont have a great grasp of mtg game design and philosophy, so my explanation may fall short. One of the biggest offenders of the newer mtg game design is, what feels like, the push to minimize the "feelsbadman" from having a card answered. This seems to be accomplished by having newer cards do a ridiculous amount. Many cards grant card parity or even generate card advantage while being possible game enders. Ragavan is a 2/1 threat for one mana, savannah lions and jackal pup were already considered aggressively costed for their threat level, but on top of that they now generate mana, perform a pseudo card draw effect, and have the option of gaining haste. For a one mana spell, whose only drawback is that its legendary, it's quite a lot. Or we can discuss planeswalkers, whose design since war of the spark has cut significantly into enchantments, but also tend to generate some sort of card parity or advantage. The biggest offender, T3feri, comes down for 3 mana and immediately applies tempo pressure from his static. He then also replaces himself while putting the opponent at am even larger tempo disadvantage by returning a threat to hand, essentially timewalking opponents during earlier turns. Again, this is a card that simply does too much. Original teferi was kinda annoying, but a 3/4 for 5 mana that didn't appreciably affect the board state wasn't a big problem. Stapling his most problematic ability to a 3 mana card with significantly fewer answers, that can affect the board state, and also replaces itself, is way too much. When we talk about ubiquity of cards in modern decks, I think there is a difference in card mechanics between overlapping cards from older metagames and cards now. Thoughtseize, lightning bolt, path to exile, and fetchlands all do just one thing, and really only trade one for one. Fury, Ragavan, Omnath, and T3feri all do multiple things and do them to such a level that it makes gameplay feel stale.


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SufficientUndo

Yes - the cost to buy a deck to play at a Friday Night Modern event is out of reach for teenagers and a lot of adults. I regularly run into people whose decks cost more than my car.


Forceusr1

I stepped away from the game sometime after Urza block and didn’t return until Dominaria, so I missed all of Modern’s cardpool. I’m slowly acquiring modern staples as I build my EDH collection, as many of them cross over. But, the cost of modern is what keeps me from playing it. I love super powerful formats but the price tag is brutal.


kiragami

I'd caution that they are likely to continue to release direct to modern sets that soft rotate the entire format. They just did with MH2. Don't expect modern to be a buy in and stay in format. Expect to have to continually re buy in just like standard.


slackerdx02

I had a similar return a few years ago. Stopped during Urza block, returned during Ikoria. I’ve become familiar with the Modern card pool through EDH and it seems like a fun format, but I can’t justify $500 just to play budget burn or $1000+ to play some of the top decks. I’ll stick with EDH, where I just need one copy to play.


MoOdYo

>But probably won’t return to an lgs until I can be ok with the risk of illness. Genuinely curious, what is your threshold for when it's safe for you?


kiwikoi

Probably when consequence is lower. Right now my grandmother is going through chemo and has already been hospitalized twice for infections people with immune systems don’t get. The my edh playgroup has two other people with similar family situations so I at least know we’ve all been wearing masks while getting groceries ect. I think if daily cases dropped well bellow 1k I’d feel more comfortable in public spaces. But until that or a change in circumstance.


HappyFoodNomad

Modern are the only events that fire off regularly now in our LGS, so I guess it really depends.


agiantanteater

Same (except EDH of course). Modern is the most popular format at the LGSes I go to in Connecticut.


Tyrinnus

Fellow CT man! Tabletop?


Woahbikes

I will say the last few weeks some of the more regular modern events around me haven’t been firing but it’s because a lot of the players have been doing various rcq events in the local 100+ mile area. So I wonder if that might be the case here as well.


Helpful_Body_629

Same here man. Couldn’t buy a pauper match to save my life. But Modern life is good.


into_lexicons

it's certainly not the only contributing factor here, but MH2 definitely helped turn modern into "the new Legacy" in more ways than one


CluckFlucker

Yeah this is what gets a lot of people. The price point to entry is pretty high for meta decks and to be able to compete. And since it’s almost all pushed MH2 cards there’s no faith that these will not be power crept by the next forced rotation


GrandArchitect

For me? Fatigue. Too many cards, sets, previews, updates to decks. Combined with friends having major life events, and of course COVID


Diskappear

>EDH is thriving. Of course. But I really don’t care. I’m tired of hearing about how cyclonic rift is a toxic card. I’m tired of “rule 0.” ​ i feel you there. almost all the LGS near me are pioneer and EDH and that's about it. I get it EDH brings in money to the store since it attracts the casual player and the cEDH crowd (which for the life of me i still don't understand, if your EDH deck wins on turn 2-3-4 why not play legacy or modern) and pioneer because that's the current RCQ season but i don't want to spend the money on yet another deck that once i get it all set and ready the main format switches or no one shows up again because RCQ season closed and on an EDH table not knowing who to attack, "power levels", "diplomacy" and such just don't have that much appeal to me and if you play just ONE card that everyone deems to be "scary" (like cyclonic rift) well now you're just out of the game because the rest of the pod is going to target you until you're gone. i mean i miss paper modern for sure but at least there's still mtgo


thephotoman

> the cEDH crowd (which for the life of me i still don't understand, if your EDH deck wins on turn 2-3-4 why not play legacy or modern) A lot of the combos that populate cEDH only work in Commander in the first place. Sure, Thassa's Oracle is a fairly bog standard win condition in every format, but there are several combos which primarily work either on the strength of the busted ass-mana rocks (e.g. Dramatic Scepter) or through interactions with various cards and the command zone (e. g. First Sliver Food Chain).


KeithSweat94

cEDH is a silly amount of fun, taking the good things about commander (four player, singleton) and eliminating a lot of the bad things (lack of meaningful game plans, power level discrepancies). I strongly recommend trying it out


Lerbyn210

If that is what edh looks like from the outside I wouldn't play edh either, but from my experience neither edh or cedh play out like you think. People won't kill you on sight for playing cyclonic but if you have the strongest deck/ most opressive board state then yeah people will target you. Cedh decks have the ability to win early but rarely do since 3 people will have to pass priority for it to actually happen which rarely happens


Morgormir

People don't like it whenever I bring it up (likely because of its popularity) but EDH and EDH-focused design is killing/has killed constructed in general. I'm in your boat OP, while modern and legacy usually fires where I live, EDH being the only real focus of Wizards and most of the playerbase at large is so annoying.


thephotoman

EDH is the classic problem of the grass being greenest where you water it. There used to be more preconstructed decks targeting Standard than EDH. The problem was that Wizards didn’t bother to make their precons playable, and therefore nobody bought them. Why should they put a playset of mythics in a preconstructed deck rather than making money off of the pack sales from stores cracking packs to find those cards—or drafters cracking packs and selling their rares to the store? Meanwhile, EDH plays to everything a new player thinks they want: an eternal format they can play with more friends and where most players are scrubs who want to win without getting good or without having to spend $100 on four copies of a mythic. EDH precons are therefore much easier to sell, and as a result Wizards has started making more of them than they do 60 card decks. Who cares that EDH is significantly harder to learn to play well? It goes well with players who want to believe that victory lies in the heart of the cards, not the skill of the player.


ExtensionHedgehog528

Not really sure what you think is an edh designed card that's killing the game - omnath and uro is the only example of a pretty pushed legendary that sees play in competitive formats that feels designed for commander that I can think of and the last big commander "mistake" that affected competitive was TNN.


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trippykid42069

I came back after 3 years to see companions. I hate them so much.


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john_dune

Hogaak wants to know your location.


ExtensionHedgehog528

I don't think hogaak was made for commander, it's basically a big trampler for free - which doesn't do a whole lot in that format.


john_dune

Hogaak was intentionally designed for commander and was put in the set to fill a rare slot that they needed.


nsleep

It still crazy that in their minds they thought that printing "Dredge" in a relatively pushed threat that could cheat the curve would end well. But hey, they tested it for drafting!


Morgormir

They're more egregious in Legacy for sure, by nature of it being an eternal format. Mainly I'm talking about any high powered 4-6 mana mythic that does too much, even if not necessary relevant in Modern. It's more of a shift in design philosophy, where every card has to be a powerhouse to cater to EDH (the biggest moneymaker) as the floor is higher in multiplayer, as well as trying to push formats to become like Commander (Companion is what I'm talking about here). Example: (numbers are random of course), if a new set has 100 cards, then you want at least some of those to see play in your biggest moneymaker, (EDH), where cards have a higher cost of entry in terms of power level. So you design those cards accordingly, let's say 50%. Well now 50 of the new 100 cards entering constructed are designed and balanced with EDH in mind, causing splash damage in formats the sets are supposedly "designed for" (ie standard, pioneer and modern, though to a lesser degree). Granted, not all 50 cards will see play in EDH, maybe 3-5, but the damage is done, the cards were still designed with EDH in mind, pushing up considerably the power level of the format. Repeat this process across X sets, and you have the vast power creep we're seeing today.


wyqted

Can you give an example of a 4-6 mana mythic that destroys legacy/modern?


Morgormir

In modern? There's nothing that "destroys" but there are cards that do too much. Cards that do/did too much: \-Uro (technically 3 mana but still) \-Omnath \-Murktide (delve is the problem here, but it also has hexproof essentially because of its CMC+toughness). \-Pitch Elementals (Mainly Fury/Endurance) \-Urza (fine now after multiple bans) \-Honorary mention in Oko \-Yorion and Lurrus (auto tutor themselves + value engines) In Legacy there's: \-Uro which has straddled the line (though it's fine now after multiple bans) \-Kappa Cannoneer (to be pedantic it's a rare) \-Pitch Elementals (Endurance essentially killed the Hogaak deck). \-Regent (even a bigger problem than in Modern because of the abundance of free spells, which are admittedly the real problem) \-Oko, again an honorary mention \-Lurrus/Zirda/Yorion (again the companion mechanic self-tutoring for relatively little downside) these are just off the top of my head, and note they either all have ETB effects or very high evasion/dodge removal, outside Lurrus.


Loonyclown

I don’t think most of these cards were designed with commander in mind to be quite honest.


wyqted

Yeah only Omnath and Uro might be designed for edh. Uro is indeed atrocious, but Omnath is good cuz W6 and fetchlands are broken


Forceusr1

W6 is a horrible card. I don’t know who designed it but they clearly weren’t thinking of formats with fetches when they did.


wyqted

Yeah ironically it’s in a set designed for modern


tiago_dagostini

Yesterday there was an article by the guy that designed it.. he said they wanted to make a lands matterwith cards like seismic assault and kept testing with that premisse. it never became good.. they simply did not notice that it coudl become OP in another way


Swarlolz

Hey it’s only 2 mana for a hard to remove perfect mana threat that also kills x/1s and makes sure you never miss a land drop that can also win the game and has synergy with lands you decided to make spells too. It’s drawback is dieing to abrupt decay so that’s… something


No-Donkey-7627

Well not just lands are broken. W6 is to much value for 2 mana. If it would come in play with 2 loyal counters it wouldnt be that broken anymore.


GenTaoChikn

Fetchlands are not broken... they've always been the defining feature between eternal and rotating formats. It's cards like omanth that break them. It used to be the price you paid for consistent mana in multiple colors was vulnerability to blood moon effects but with all the other egregious effects they've printed (cantripping mana fixing for 1 mana/channel lands) blood moon isn't even a staple anymore. W6 is more of a problem, it honestly feels like they tried to rebalance DRS by making it cost 1 more mana but f*kd up by making it an actual planeswalker so it dodges all the removal. The power creep is real and it doesn't matter if it's designed for edh or modern, the goal is to get you to buy new cards. Remember when the benchmark for a playable delve creature was a vanilla 5/5? Now we get an evasive delve creature that for some reason has a secondary grow clause while it's in play??? I also don't view it as an issue with meta health. Ppl love to bring this up solely cuz their cards aren't playable anymore so they view the meta as toxic. While the ppl who buy the new toys love the meta cuz of its diversity and will defend WoTC saying the meta is in a good place. NEWSFLASH: WoTC doesn't give af about meta health they only care about catering to the profit motive of their business daddy Hasbro.


wyqted

Fetchlands are among the most broken cards in mtg history, but they are the reason we play modern/legacy. Like legacy blue cantrip/free Counterspell core, which are the reason why delver stays top 1 no matter what threats they play. But they are so iconic and the pillars of the format so they will never get banned even as the most broken cards. Look at pioneer, a format without fetches. DRS and Omnath are meme tier there. DTT isn’t played by control decks. Cruise has only one decent tier 1.5 deck. If you print W6 in pioneer it won’t be broken at all. Also Murktide is not a problem at all in any swords/solitude format.


GenTaoChikn

They're not inherently broken. They provide consistency in multiple colors. Obviously the effect is very strong as it enables more diverse strategies by allowing you to play more of the color pie without the drawback of slow mana. It's the cards like DRS and Omnath that break them. I also wasn't calling murktide out for being broken so much as highlighting the power creep of what it means to be a playable delve creature. Obviously DRS/W6 wouldn't have same impact in newer formats because of no fetches but that's not my point at all. The point is WoTC doesn't care about the health of their game which ties into OPs question of where did modern go at their lgs. The issue isn't is the meta in a better place with the power creep, they don't care if it's better. They just want it to be flashy enough for you to spend more money and a lot of modern players (myself included) bought into the format before the MH/MH2 'rotation under the assumption (which was viewed as more or less established fact at the time) that their decks would be playable. Sure you may have to buy a new card here or there as good stuff comes out (eg. Fatal push) but you were more or less able to be competitive without altering your list too much. Now those decks get steamrolled by the MH cards and the price drop is what keeps us from wanting to further invest in the format because there's no assurance that our investment will be respected. In fact it's now abundantly clear it won't be.


Morgormir

Not with commander in mind, but with the commander design philosophy of "this card must do something immediately", which is true in a multiplayer format. This is what I'm getting at. Commander requires power creep beyond what is acceptable in 1v1 formats (not to mention non singleton formats) which leads to ripple effects across other formats. Also, I'm pretty sure Hogaak was explicitly stated to be designed with EDH in mind.


Loonyclown

I disagree that the design philosophy of "this needs to do something immediately" is commander centric. A card not having impact as soon as it ETBs has been a reason not to play it since well before Commander was the de facto format. And you didn't even mention Hogaak as one of your examples.


saber_shinji_ntr

> Not with commander in mind, but with the commander design philosophy of "this card must do something immediately", which is true in a multiplayer format. There are very very few cards which would see play without that qualifier even before the commander-centric designs supposedly came in.


SSBM_fanatic

Dude the majority of cards listed are from MODERN horizons, so I’m just gonna respectfully disagree with his take


man0warr

But they also want their biggest demographic (EDH/casual players) to have a reason to buy MH1 and MH2. There are a ton of EDH staples in those sets.


lesh666

Could you please explain how EDH cards is killing constructed? I’ve never seen this opinion anywhere and I am curious. I totally saw the takeover of the EDH format by WOTC that went from “play with the fringe, old cards from your binder” to “buy those commander packs if you want to compete”, but I fail to see how EDH cards have an impact on anything other than Legacy (and even then, it’s a card here and there… from the Nemesis to Minsc).


Turbocloud

There's a difference between cards that were released in a commander side product that are not legal in modern and cards (legendary creatures and high-costed spells) in a standard-legal set that were designed to be attractive to commander players in order to enhance set sales. These cards are commonly causing problems in other formats because they were designed for a slower multiplayer format, but sometimes formats as standard or recently modern become slow enough that they now can consider to play those cards which often create a greater advantage than other cards at the same cost ratio due to being designed to be good in multiplayer. So when a format deaccelerates to a point where these cards become playable, there is a high possibility these cards start making trouble. That is why most recent bans in standard are high-costed threats or card advantage spells that overpower the answers of the format. In Modern though these things are counterregulated by the speed of the format, so it often leads to temporary meta shifts and rarely to bans, and since the most powerful cards get printed in commander-specific sets modern has been the least-affected format of all, but affected nonetheless.


Morgormir

As I said elsewhere, what you said is true but it's also the design philosophy being so tuned for commander nowadays, leading to a lack of judgement on what is okay for modern and what isn't in terms of power level.


ExplodingDiceChucker

I still don't follow. MH2 was designed for modern, and is generally accepted as the largest shakeup of the format. And if 3 years (arbitrary number for sake of discussion) of EDH design ruled standard, how does that affect modern? If no modern-level get printed in 3 years due to edh design philosophy, the top decks of 3 years ago would still be the top decks of today. That's demonstrably false.


Luxypoo

Omnath is a clear EDH plant. It was banned in standard in like 10 days, and has been great in modern since release.


Morgormir

Omnath is one card, but look at Dominaria United? It's chockful of Legendaries clearly aimed at edh. Are any of those cards playable in modern? Probably not. Are they designed with standard/modern and pioneer in mind? Unlikely.


Morgormir

It was designed for modern, but with EDH principles in mind. In edh threats either need to bring immediate value or be combo pieces, depending on the accepted power level at the table. This doesn't necessarily mean that those cards are playable in EDH, but the power level bar is higher in a multiplayer format by design, so you'll always need to push the envelope on cards in hopes that they see play (= sell). So now, you designer, are priced into making cards that "do something" and generate immediate value, or are very sticky, otherwise risk them being unplayable (aka lower sales). And if you look at all the problematic cards in modern, they all meet one of the above criteria (generate too much value like Omnath or are sticky like Murktide), even if those cards generally aren't good in EDH. Wotc should stop applying EDH design philosophy of "every card needs to do something immediately" to 1v1 formats, as it pushes power creep even further, and go back to designing and balancing for standard/pioneer and modern, and whatever turns out to be playable in EDH fine, not the other way around. Of course that will never happen, because EDH is a huge cash cow.


ExplodingDiceChucker

For all the typing you've done, I'm not sure why you refuse to give examples. It would surely help your argument.


Morgormir

Good point, I gave some examples in another comment in the thread, but here you go: \> In modern? There's nothing that "destroys" but there are cards that do too much. Cards that do/did too much: \-Uro (technically 3 mana but still) \-Omnath \-Murktide (delve is the problem here, but it also has hexproof essentially because of its CMC+toughness). \-Pitch Elementals (Mainly Fury/Endurance) \-Urza (fine now after multiple bans) \-Honorary mention in Oko \-Yorion and Lurrus (auto tutor themselves + value engines) In Legacy there's: \-Uro which has straddled the line (though it's fine now after multiple bans) \-Kappa Cannoneer (to be pedantic it's a rare) \-Pitch Elementals (Endurance essentially killed the Hogaak deck). \-Regent (even a bigger problem than in Modern because of the abundance of free spells, which are admittedly the real problem) \-Oko, again an honorary mention \-Lurrus/Zirda/Yorion (again the companion mechanic self-tutoring for relatively little downside) these are just off the top of my head, and note they either all have ETB effects or very high evasion/dodge removal, outside Lurrus.


ExplodingDiceChucker

Thank you. Many of those I wouldn't say are edh designed cards, but I can understand your expanded definition for edh-inspired design. I suppose some may argue that that's just FIRE but FIRE and edh design aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, either. Anyways, thanks again.


Morgormir

Not explicitly designed for EDH, I agree, but with the design philosophy of EDH in mind (which has overlap with FIRE, I agree). Any card to be playable in EDH needs to have a higher floor than what is okay in other formats, mainly generate immediate value. This then affects other constructed formats, which is what I'm getting at.


Morgormir

It's not any individual card, but the overabundance of EDH product (and the power creep that it brings) is what is really killing Modern and older formats imo. When wizards is constantly designing for a format that has a high bar for cards to enter, but still wants to sell product to Edh players (as they're the biggest market), you start getting overpowered and overtuned cards which are fine in a multiplayer setting but egregious in 1v1, making more and more of an appearance in the latter. Edit: TLDR it's not any single EDH card, but the design principles for EDH playable cards that splash over onto other formats are what is really hurting Modern.


MortifiedPenguins

See True Name Nemesis and Maddening Hex in Legacy, terrible, overpowered cards with boring play patterns in 1v1.


saber_shinji_ntr

Are you seriously saying TNN and Maddening Hex are overpowered in legacy? Annoying I get, but overpowered seriously?


Mr_Buck_Strickland

It encourages losers who can't handle losing to stop trying to play actually competitive formats, thus severely limiting the pool of players who play real Magic.


Mr_Buck_Strickland

EDH is stupid. If I wanted to play a huggy-huggy weenie non-competitive game, I'd join a D&D group. These commander-only sets and "rule 0" bullshit have entirely ruined Magic, and I don't see that changing because Hasbro makes too much money. Another problem is whiny sissy nerds who've never played a competitive sport and can't handle losing, so they play a stupid made-up format where "everyone is a winner." In short, fuck EDH.


AlorsViola

im sorry your wrong ol top


Mr_Buck_Strickland

How is that, then? If you want to play janky stupid bullshit, fine, but don't try to institute rules about the "power level" of my deck because I choose to play cards that are actually competitive. Magic is supposed to be a competitive game, EDH is trying to teach people that winning isn't the goal, it's the "friends you made along the way." Lmao.


AlorsViola

by me simply declaring that you are wrong. sorry you lost this argument. better luck next time, sissy.


Mr_Buck_Strickland

Well fuck you then. I do appreciate the King of the Hill reference though.


Ankulay

Same thing happened in my city. Owner said fewer and fewer players showed up since MH2.


scar_face40

> Owner said fewer and fewer players showed up since MH2 Not surprised, people didn’t want a format that suddenly completely changed overnight with the new staples being absurdly expensive


Ungestuem

Fun fact, MTGO modern player base is steady rising since MH2.


kiragami

These two things don't contradict each other. Less people are able to play in person so they congregate online. Add on that in mtgo mostly everyone just rents and it removes the price shock of rotation.


[deleted]

huh, I wonder if some massive global event kept people out of enclosed spaces packed full of people in close proximity since the release of mh2?


MechanicalEngineer-

All these people blaming MH2 are conveniently forgetting the actual reason people either wouldn't or couldn't go to a store and play physical magic.


MrBrainstorm

I'm going to play today, in person, for the first time in 3 years thanks to that global event. Still gonna wear a mask until case levels drop to < 100/day


levetzki

I just moved to a rural town for work. Go to work and go shopping. Been in contact with nobody else. Got COVID this week.


scar_face40

Funny, most people I speak IRL to blame the charge to the format as the reason they don’t play anymore, rather than Covid


zephah

If we're going by purely anecdotal evidence, my store is thriving in a way I've never seen and people actually cite the format as to why they love playing modern.


[deleted]

by definition, if you're talking to people in real life then you are seeing them in real life, and covid has not prevented them from seeing you in real life. Do you get how that's selection bias?


scar_face40

Fun fact, MTGO modern player base has been steadily rising since the start. I don’t know how that’s relevant?


PenResident3851

We had the same issue... but all of sudden, its turning! The format is actually quite healthy and fun to play right now. Yestreday we had 16 players (before we had 6-8) and even some ussual ones were missing. There were 15 different decks, lots of fun and competition... Maybe its the end of the summer, maybe ppl just gave it a try and realized the format is good, maybe sth else... Just aks ppl to try it! Lend cards, decks... even tier 3 cheaper decks have quite some chance at FNM level...


kiragami

I wouldn't really call murktide+ omnath + combo decks a healthy format


zephah

If you look at top 4 results from every challenge / every major tournament, there's a lot more diversity than you're letting on. Comments like this read to me someone who plays modern every month or two and doesn't play modo and just parrots twitter/youtube complaints


kiragami

This is just what both the data and my experience on mtgo says. Maybe it's different for some local stores


Wads_Worthless

The data doesn’t say that.


Goupixe

Great thing modern isn't that currently then huh


ritaPitaMeterMaid

This isn’t all format is. Murk is even on the decline.


HammerAndSickled

People have their heads in the sand so you’re going to get downvoted. Murktide in Modern is currently the best deck by a 5% lead, and it’s beyond the metric they set when Twin and Pod were banned at 15% meta share, but it’s a “fair deck” so they’ll defend it to death.


Wads_Worthless

You’re confusing “best” with “most played” which is a pretty dumb thing to do seeing as they’re not even close to the same thing.


saber_shinji_ntr

>Murktide in Modern is currently the best deck by a 5% lead What is your data source for this claim?


kiragami

Yeah I'm used to it. People can't really look at data all that well.


sisicatsong

Cost of upkeep went up dramatically in the past 2 years for Modern. People are re-evaluating their relationship with Magic when the competitive incentives were literally torched by WOTC during this period. It's current replacement (the competitive scene) has not proven to be a suitable replacement either. EDH is much better depending on where you are located at providing a fun laid back experience. You're currently just experiencing what happens when business gets in the way of competition.


VERTIKAL19

Covid really fucked a lot of LGS. And yeah EDH seems like such a toxic format. I also don’t want to have to play a side game of diplomacy.


iwumbo2

EDH is like DND to me. It's very playgroup dependent and everyone has a different idea on what the game *should* be. This means when these ideas clash, you can end up with some really annoying or even toxic players. Or you can end up with a playgroup that's perfectly fine to play with. I try to avoid playing both games with people I don't know for that reason.


trippykid42069

Edh is fun modern is fun. The only thing is toxic about Edh is the vocal casual minority that cry’s when you kill their kill on sight commander.


VERTIKAL19

To me EDH just feels like you constantly play a game of diplomacy. A game where you would want to look as non threatening as possible all the time only to then just win and people then be upset. Just always turns into people ganging up on each other. I guess EDH is fine. Multiplayer in magic just sucks.


ExplodingDiceChucker

I've learned to like edh as one of the best ways to ensure I get to play magic regularly at by LGS. But I bring a spike attitude to it, even if I don't play my cedh deck. That means attacking each turn, mana efficiency, not playing silly games, not being afraid to be the threat and force the game to move from early game into mid and end. But it's definitely not the same as 1v1 tournament magic.


subito_lucres

Honestly, you aren't wrong about that strategy, especially in a 4+ player game. Tallest blade of grass gets cut, so while you can just race to win, you might wanna pace yourself a bit, because it's not easy to solo the table. The part you *may* have wrong is that this doesn't have to make friends upset or ganging up. Last night we had a real slug-fest. I sat back in the cut and played value and defense until I saw a chance to win and then I took it. Basically, I see it as making "bids" to win. Knowing when to time the bid is a part of the game. If your friends get pissed about that, talk to them, or find others to play with. PS - I'm sure you know all this, but just sharing my experience. I just love magic. All the popular formats are good for something. I play Modern for 1v1, EDH for multiplayer, limited to enjoy cracking packs, even block constructed to train noobs.


VERTIKAL19

When I played with my friends they always want to have everyone build their own decks, but when I do that they always team up on me which just kind of frustrated me away from EDH. It is like you are supposed to build your own deck, but you have to tread insanely carefully not to upset people with how you build your deck.


subito_lucres

Yeah, I agree that's the least fun part of the format, but it's great if you can get the pod right.


whitebandit

my Glissa the Traitor voltron EDH deck gets me chased out of the LGS :( its not my fault i can almost infinite combo Mindslavers...


zamers1323

Same here. The LGS owner said to me one day that a great amount of players had 200 to 300 dollar decks. They were semi-competitive decks such as bw tokens, 8-whack... Anyway, budget decks for 18 year old kid without jobs with enough incomes to allow them a 800 modern tier deck. Pandemic + MH2 shut these people down. Most players sold their pools and abandoned the format. And now modern tourn. is like 10, 12 people Max


yuhboipo

It'd be funny if the tournies were split based on how much your deck is valued at


levetzki

There is an unofficial format called penny dreadful. It would be funny to have a modern format that had something similar.


MarduRusher

Two reasons which are kind of related imo. 1. Covid got a lot of people out of it. They stopped going to stores not because they didn't want to, but because of covid/their local restrictions. 2. Power creep and mass meta shifts. Modern used to change pretty slowly. New deck might enter the format, but if you have a staple deck and staple cards, you're good to go. But recently with the power creep that has changed. New decks and new staples have emerged and are pretty expensive. Let me give you my situation. I stopped playing because of Covid, then when stuff started happening again, the meta had shifted a lot. Continuing to play my deck would cost a lot of money and I wasn't familiar with the meta. Because of this, I'm working on switching to competitive Yugioh and just staying in Magic for Cube and EDH. But I'm not very interested in modern anymore as it's not the modern I enjoyed.


SeriousSquid

Works differently in different places but what Im seeing at most snaller events is either an active organizer that is conscious about onboarding or a core of regulars that are also friends. When you lose either the whole thing can deflate pretty quickly. The second the 'gangs' decide to focus their collectice energy on something else attendence can drop suddenly to a point where the lone wolves cant rely on attendence to be solid and it deflates. Modern generally in my town is fine with a solid ~24 attendance but the other venue's event is deflating and might get canceled. However thats very explicitely because the more casual or budget constrained modern players seem to have transitioned to pioneer which sees 20p at the same store - and the remaining modern players cant sustain two events per week.


throwawayguy746

I’m sorry:( always hurts to see a community disappear. There was an awesome board game cafe LGS in my town that ran events and it went out of business with covid so I know your pain.


logangrowgan2020

I don't know if covid or wizards had a bigger inpact to be honest. that's how poorly wizards has treated the "real" competetive side of the house with magic - they may have damaged their game more than daggon covid did! supplemental cash grab sets, lame "esports" focus, overbanning/poor design, crossover branding, killing DCI, and probably most of all Commander. the backbone of the game is simply not a priority. somewhere between Emerakul standard ban streak, launching arena, and printing wrenn and 600 tickets the game went down a bad path and we're seeing the outcome. have fun playing politics around a table of four nerds with fortnite cards.


pikolak

Exactly - if you look how the game looked in the past you can see how Wizards totally shifted their main goals with Magic.....main selling point of Magic in the past was competitive tournament circuit with draft/sealed/60 cards constructed formats all along. But around the time when they released the first duel deck, they figured that causal oriented products generate much more revenue than the Pro tour. And thus began the slow shift in the product line. Combine this with people loving altered cards and Wizards again wanted this money and hence you got all the crossovers and Fortnite cards etc.... I understand this from business perspective, but the game is forever ruined imo, it will never be like most of us remember, the only thing we can do is to form playgroups and play formats that we want - looking at Premodern for example


thatscentaurtainment

I’ve been drifting more and more into playing only limited for this reason


cervidal2

The main selling point of M:tG has never, at any point, been a competitive tournament circuit. Since the beginning of the game, the vast overwhelming majority of sealed card sales go into the hands of people who have never even played something as competitive as an FNM. Your whole post is like a literal 180 degrees from any actual reality.


thephotoman

While what you said is true, there’s something you’re missing. The major competitive events used to be a larger part of the game’s advertising budget. Today, that budget gets spent on influencers who need to keep making non-repetitive content. It’s easier for influencers to make engaging EDH content, simply because there’s more going on and much more variance within EDH games. Influencer-driven ads are always cancerous.


pikolak

ok perhaps that is too strong word , but it has been advertised way more..."play the game, see the world", FNMs, PTQs, GPs etc....now it's EDH, Arena, Secret Lairs, UB...


DSynergy

Ive played modern since its inception. Traveled for GPs etc and I have to say it is the least fun it has ever been since MH2. The format has become post war of the spark/MH2 tribal, which is very pricey to put together and feels stale. Most of the pre MH1 and MH2 decks are not viable or only viable with a ton of MH2 upgrades. All of my friends have abandoned modern for Pioneer for the same reason and our events don't fire anymore either. It sucks and I don't see a solution.


tylerrayskeet

I feel your pain. Most of the modern players I know have transitioned to pioneer due to the lower ceiling to buy in or have given up on constructed and draft. I’m the latter.


futureidk3

Pioneer isn’t even bad though. Where I am nothing fires anymore. I’d gladly take pioneer over noting tbh


fuzzyapplesauce

Hot take. MH2 was designed by Wizards to kill modern.


HammerAndSickled

I’m starting to buy into this conspiracy myself. The timing is extremely suspect: Pioneer gets announced as a nonrotating format in Oct 19 with competitive support and the promise of a managed banlist (lol). This is after the worst period in Modern’s history, Hogaak summer, and after a time where their flagship “look we’re designing for modern!” set turned out broken as hell and generally universally reviled on the back of a few broken cards. Modern interest was probably at its absolute low at this point and people in Wizards were scrambling to not only fix this issue but try and prevent issues in the future. I can easily see that they came up with “it’s too hard to avoid breaking Modern, let’s sunset it like Legacy and make a new modern-lite that avoids the really broken stuff from Mirrodin-Rav era.” This becomes pioneer, and they work on announcing that and slowly removing support for Modern. But they don’t want to actively look like they‘re giving up on the format. They do the same thing they did with legacy years ago, which is: gradually decreasing competitive events for the format (even before Covid, 2020 had less Modern GPs scheduled than 2019), publicly announce they “don’t test for the format” just like they did with legacy years ago, and poison the well with printings targeted to make the format less attractive to play. With legacy, I believe the first of these specific “Make the format less fun on purpose” printings was Leovold, but it can be extended to War of the Spark’s Narset and later Hullbreacher too. They knew Legacy was the Brainstorm format, and they decided to print cards that hoses brainstorm, but instead of trying to actually improve the format by giving more tools to Nonblue decks, they made these hate cards themselves blue and asymmetrical AND produce value even beyond the draw-hosing effect. There’s plenty of other cards to hate they added in Legacy but I believe those to be genuine mistakes: TNN, W6, Oko, even Hogaak I can genuinely believe that people didn’t see the power level of those cards or foresee the effect they’d have on the format. With Leovold and company, the hatred for the format is so obvious it borders on malicious. For Modern, I think they started this with MH2. MOST of MH2 is fine for modern, just like MOST of MH1 was, too. The design goals for the set were to bolster weaker archetypes and they did that well: reanimator, domain, Enchantress, and even the “Asmo-discard” shell were all decks that would be cool to see in Modern and their power level is perfectly appropriate, coming in close to the better pre-MH2 decks but not eclipsing them totally. Any of those decks could exist in a healthy metagame alongside the existing Modern decks like Heliod, Urza, Control, Burn/RDW, etc. The ones that crossed the line were Ragavan/Murktide, Saga, and the Evoke Elementals. These cards CANNOT exist in a format coexisting peacefully with other archetypes: they demand to completely supplant the existing status quo. Why would you play any fair midrange or tempo deck when you can play Murktide? Why would you play any value or one-for-one control deck when you can blink Evoke elementals? Why would you play any synergy-based engine deck when you can play Saga? And, bonus, why play any combo deck when you can play Cascade decks, which get to abuse evoke elementals because of the CMC requirement? The cards seem almost maliciously designed to say “see that thing you loved about the format? Well, this one card/package does it better than you could ever dream of,” and as we’ve seen basically the entire format devolved around these packages. I could see one or two of these things being “mistakes” where they simply misjudged the power level of a card, particularly Saga is a hard card to develop and tune. But the fact that Ragavan is so blatantly in-your-face “I’m the best creature ever” and the evoke elementals seem tailor-made to replace the entire format makes me extremely suspicious that this was on purpose. And after MH2, what happens? No quick bannings, in fact zero bannings at all for over 6 months, while Hogaak was banned within 4 months after MH1 when it became a problem. Ragavan decks took over the format immediately, both in Lurrus decks and in Murktide, and when the time came to ban they chose to ban JUST Lurrus and leave the obviously-broken cards legal. They still have made no action despite Ragavan/Murktide being the uncontested best deck since the Lurrus ban. Meanwhile, they highlighted Pioneer with the release of challenger decks, something Modern had been asking for for over five years, giving new players precons to get started, and they gave it a spotlight as the first Regional Championship format. Modern has had no such love or acknowledgement as part of the new order except that it’s a possible format for RCQs, but so is Standard and Sealed, lol. I’m not confident to say that it was 100% intentional and none of this counts as evidence, but I believe the narrative is plausible. Tl;dr: Modern detonated with Hogaak, wizards realizes they cannot sustain Modern as a competitive format, creates pioneer to replace it, gives all competitive support to Pioneer, creates MH2 to poison the well and rotate modern to make it unattractive while being able to say “see? We didn’t kill Modern, we’re releasing sets for it!”


FrasierFan88

Interesting theory. I'm not sure I buy it, but I am willing to accept the weaker version that WOTC no longer cares about modern. In fact, I think that's why there have been so many calls for bans in the past few months. It's less about the modern being intolerably bad or broken(which it isn't) and more a cry for help from the playerbase. "Please, Wizards. Show us you that you care. You used to put in effort to keep modern and legacy healthy. Please, we love this game, just let us know you give a shit." And we get silence, because they do not in fact give a shit, and that's more demoralizing to people than any individual card or mechanic thats been printed in the last three years.


thephotoman

> This is after the worst period in Modern’s history, Hogaak summer, Someone forgot about Eldrazi Winter. Hogaak didn't rise to being half the meta. During Eldrazi Winter, your choices were "play Eldrazi," "play Melira Company and hope you win the die roll," or "go 0-3 and drop". As a result, Eldrazi managed to become a whopping 75% of the meta for three months.


man0warr

Also the two week period of being able to cascade into Tibalt was worse - worse than Eldrazi even. It was just during COVID and they dealt with it quickly, which really shows how degenerate the format had become in such a short time that they had to emergency ban. We are talking faster than Memory Jar being banned in 1999.


DoomedKiblets

This sucks indeed :(


drunktacos

Same thing happened at my LGS right around when I graduated in 2015 or so. Locals had like 20-30 people every week for Modern, and they went to 15-20 to 10-15 to "hope we can fire" to nothing. Other shop started firing modern with a different crowd, exact same thing happened over a year. MH2 definitely impacted some of the attendance, as some people who only played pet decks lost interest in a higher interactive format. COVID also wrecked attendance. There was even a thriving legacy community that would get 10-20 people each week, but that completely dried up with COVID.


loliam

Just moved states. Previous LGS regularly had 20-30 people to fire each week, closer to 30 than 20, and sometimes more. Store championships had easily 60 people. Thought Modern still had the draw it did when I first started playing. Moved a few months ago and at my new lgs now we "fire" with less than 8 people probably half of the time. Nothing like getting byes at FNM. Id rather just play casually taking turns against the other 5 people at that point to at least get 3 rounds. Turns out my previous LGS was probably an outlier for turnout. Havent played in a couple months at this point because the drive just doesnt seem worth it after work anymore.


jose_cuntseco

At my LGS, Pioneer is substantially more popular than Modern. This could be just due to timing of the events (Pioneer FNM vs Modern Saturday) but I do hear some of the Pioneer players actively say Modern is too expensive for them. Modern has always been expensive, but this is some of the most I've heard people say that it's too expensive out loud. I'm in a city with many LGS so the Modern vs Pioneer scenes in each one can be really wonky. I will say that for the most part Pioneer has caught up to Modern in terms of popularity, which would've been unheard of a few months ago.


eadenoth

I’ll be honest, pre covid Modern was super fun for me. Covid happened, Uro happened, then it became apparent the power spike in the game was unreal and decimating some of my favorite cards in the game. I just don’t like the format anymore after that era despite seeing it is healthy, it’s just not the same for me.


Bleu_Skie

I feel the same about commander. It's so popular it pushes out other formats and I just like the 60 card formats. I try to make a new commander deck to play occasionally but it's not the same. It's almost like I got forced into being a collector now since I don't play often. I think I might start looking into a community that does modern on discord or something. It won't be the same, but it's something.


KillAllHumans722

There’s something about sitting down with a 60 card deck man. It does something for me EDH and CEDH never could.


thephotoman

Yeah, 60 card decks aren't as hard to shuffle, and they're way more consistent than 100 card singleton decks.


stonecr0we

Mh2 killed paper modern


leo_pedersen

i’ve lost interest in modern since mh2


Twistlaw

So it's now acceptable to say it in this subreddit without being drowned in downvotes?


chiLL_cLint0n

Covid really hurt local gaming stores 😔


Gods_Shadow_mtg

covid happened but yeah, It will take some time for paper events to recover


towishimp

Same, man. I played Modern almost exclusively, basically from its inception all the way until COVID hit, and loved it. I mostly played D&T (all variants) and Zoo type stuff all through that period, and was pretty competitive on the local level. Looked into getting back in last year, but the format was unrecognizable. All my decks were either completely obsolete or would require hundreds to update. It just feels so forced and power-creepy, how they're managing the format now, whereas it used to be more organic. Similar to what they've done with EDH. Makes me sad. Without Modern to keep me in, I'm basically out of the game. Haven't bought a single card in over two years. And I've been playing since 1994.


NiceBasket9980

Yup, the same thing happened to all my hometown stores and it used to get crazy turnout. All the scg turnouts are way down too.


Mlemort

Same here. MH2 and COVID, without question, finished off our local community.


thephotoman

I think that an MH2 reissue printed to demand at Standard-legal pricing would fix some of the problem. But it wouldn’t fix everything: nothing is stopping them from printing another power crept set at high pack prices into the format. We need a commitment from Wizards that they won’t do premium pack pricing for draft boosters again, not will they print new cards into Modern via limited run sets.


Mlemort

Most people I know that quit was because of the "rotation" - no point in cashing 1k for a deck no longer good in two years


thephotoman

The problem is that sets targeted for nonrotating formats (not just a supplemental draft-matters set or a casual-friendly set, but actually targeted to make waves in nonrotating formats) tend to be a bad deal for whatever nonrotating format they are designed for. The goal in such sets should not be that every rare or mythic is playable in the targeted format. At the same time, there needs to be a way to bring *reprints*--not new cards, mind--into Modern without bringing them into Standard. Modern really did need Counterspell, but putting Counterspell into a Standard-legal set required committing to a Blue-centric Standard metagame that most new players would not enjoy. If all the Modern-playable cards in MH2 had been printed into the format over five years, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But when you make a set explicitly targeted at Modern, it's got to do to Modern what rotation does to Standard. And what's worse, it'll likely also have knock-on effects for Legacy. I'm at the position where I'm ready to say that Force of Negation was a mistake, and they should have just put Force of Will into Modern. After all, it led to a situation where Legacy Delver could run more Forces. What's more, these sets need to be priced such that people can afford to draft them. A $10 pack is bad for drafters. A $10 pack with collectors boosters for the set is completely undraftable, not because of the set design (MH2's draft, if you *could* play it, was pretty good), but because the buy-in price is high and the expected value of the draft is nowhere near as high as the price of the draft. Wholly new cards really shouldn't be entering Modern through any means but Standard. But it's very obvious that Wizards is bored by reprint sets, even if players generally like them.


sisicatsong

> We need a commitment from Wizards that they won’t do premium pack pricing for draft boosters again, not will they print new cards into Modern via limited run sets. Hell would freeze over before this would happen. Especially now when there is a new CEO that is probably under pressure to perform better than Chris Cocks.


AitrusX

Modern is the only thing other than commander still firing locally. Pre pandemic our main lgs had pioneer firing every week with 8-14 and modern never firing. Post pandemic we have pioneer not even existing and modern firing with 8-14. Draft never fires either way. The secondary lgs nearby went out of business but they only did commander and draft. Main lgs Prerelease for dmu had 10 players. Game day had 4. It’s wild that draft doesn’t fire but I suspect arena is to blame as much as anything else. In addition to easy free online drafts you also have free online standard. Since standard is dead in paper what can you even do with draft cards? They are mostly worthless as there is no standard market


chiefjoe14

Oh man, this exact thing happened at my local store in MN today. For months I would come in and hope that 2 more people (and the judge) would show so we could play the event. And it was maybe once each month it would. It is really sad.


Brunnenmolch

Where I went many people just couldn´t afford it anymore. You can´t really play modern casually (atleast here) and had to invest atleast a couple hundreds. Thats keeping newer players off, as there is no casual entry point.


TheMisticalPotato

I would try to find out if the modern playgroup moved to another store. It happened with the LGSs around my area. The LGS where everyone used to play modern is now basically EDH only but the modern scene at the surrounding LGSs had a little boom.


Illustrious-Ear-7567

It’s pretty hot in the Madison WI area… most likely due to being a metro city tho. Same with Chicago… you’ve gotta get there early or they may not have room.


Single_Necessary_624

What is rule 0?


TheOnlySJR

Sorry to see this. I feel your pain. I miss the days when the LGSs here where I live in Alberta would routinely pull in 30+ people for Modern nights before 2020. It appears to be hit or miss with what the turnout is these days, anywhere from 6-20ish people now for daily events. Larger Comp REL events seem to still have decent turnout here however. I hope things get better for Modern in your area.


Princeharperman

For our events which also disappeared a long time ago, all the existing modern players went to college and all the decks are too expensive to get anyone to play, now the store runs a small pioneer tourney and draft but I was the only ever sign up for modern. It’s been over a year


jtown82

Yep modern is completely dead at my shop. At least pioneer still fires.. sad to say but Il be selling out of it.


alexis_M8

Quite literally the same thing happened to my lgc. Very unfortunate, as now I have to drive an hour and a half away to get some modern in


KeithSweat94

I know that I'm personally biased but 4c Yorion Elementals is such a problematic deck for the format. The pitch elementals are way too consistent and undercosted for the format, and having 80 cards is in no way a downside. The games have gotten longer because 4c control archetypes are just so feasible and easy with them and the triome cycle. I'd rather just play cEDH now, gameplay is spicy the way modern used to be


VelikiUcitelj

I see a lot of comments saying MH2 shut down their scene too. I think it's important to say that this is reallt case by case bias. For me Modern boombed nearly doubling our player count. In general Modern is on the rise. You can check out the viewership of Modern streamers to see how they've become more popular after MH2. It's also huge on MTGO. Nobody can really tell you what happaned at your LGS.


[deleted]

I would imagine that Modern got more popular in the generally affluent areas where people minded buying play sets of Ragavan less, and got less popular in less affluent areas where people had the same deck for years for $ reasons.


sinsquare

I've talked to several people in the past 6 months who cashed out of their magic cards because they need money for life expenses.


nsleep

Modern participation here fell a lot during Eldraine and never recovered, and since November 2021 they changed the weekly slot that used to be Modern's to Pioneer. If I had a complaint about MH2 is that it's just continuing the trend of extremely pushed threats that started around that time and no one gives a crap anymore because they don't like this direction in Modern and would rather play Pioneer where you get the same issue but with a few more turns and more board interaction with a more palatable price. >!There used to be two weekly Standard events every week here too, but one of those days was changed in favor or Pauper which currently happens twice every week.!<


GodOfAscension

Money, too expensive to play


ilikeelks

Dont worry! Lord of the Rings will make modern great again!


GreenSkyDragon

Yeah! It's only...nine months away or so


level1firebolt

I'd play the LOTR TCG by Decipher again in a heartbeat, though.


swiebertjeee

So I talked to the owner of my new lgs because I moved and wanted to start magic again. I got tid of my collection during covid because I saw no point of it having a place in my closet anymore. But he told now that he had official qualifier tournaments for european Championship held in store magic players started to crawl out again. So yeah it prob does mean it requires some action to get back these players. He said the only players that kept coming were for flesh and blood.


wjaybez

Complete opposite at locals here in London. Modern incredibly popular since MH2 and has actually drained players away from other formats since its release.


FierceDuncan

One thing mh2 pricing people out of the set and instantly making the format modern horizons 2 block modern


rod_zero

Covid had the biggest impact, power creep second. I like mh2 a ma a concept but they failed to support old archetypes, old favorites as humans, spirits, Etron, and even UW control are out of the meta But I have hope a fury ban could bring back a lot of decks.


squadcarxmar

I'm honestly fine with the changes that MH2 brought to modern. What I'm not fine with, is that it was a "premium" product and cost twice as much as a standard set and had obvious big ticket cards from the start. I get the fear of modern rotating but I don't think it's entirely fair right now to say that it is, LOTR set and future Modern-specific sets will determine that notion more than just MH2 alone can. ​ But it really sucks that when it does rotate that all these old cards you had were things you had bought and had years to acquire to suddenly not needing them at all and now needing more 50-80 dollar cards. I know it can't happen quickly and even if it could, it won't because of reprint equity but these new staples for Modern need to be reprinted. They only exist in one set and if the format stays relevant and the cards stay relevant, they will only maintain or increase in price. If the price is already a problem, then it will remain a problem until reprints help curb down the market prices.


Square-Tomorrow-3500

this is the result of print cards like ragavan, forces, op evoke elementals.... the power creep is unfun, I sold off all modern, kept only a balance deck... 0 modern events, lot of drafts, I'm happier than ever


Mike_Crow

You probably enjoyed playing dredge versus hollow one for a year. Or you prefer the era when everybody had to have surgical extraction maindeck? Or maybe you enjoyed being karn lattice locked? Or you liked Hogaak? Or maybe you are an enjoyer of heliod vs prowess dual decks. I forgot about oko piles and then uro field control.


Sycofantastic_

Don't forget about the Lurrus era Rock paper scissors matchups. This is literally my reply to everyone complaining about the current state of modern. I truly believe it's the best it's been since I started in 2018.


Vaitka

>Started in 2018 Well there's your problem. The first 5 years of the format supported larger tournaments than any ensuing period (2011-2016). It is the baseline for a lot of the (non-monetary) comparisons and complaints about the format. It was for many people "peak modern", and the format as it should have been.


Kyouka66

>heliod vs prowess dual decks heliod vs prowess dual decks LOL take my upvote


scar_face40

MH2 for you Same issue near me, two thirds of the people didn’t want to update their decks into a format that completely changed overnight, and the third that were happy to drop $500 on MH2 cards barely had anyone left to play with and it got stale. Turns out a lot of players didn’t want to play a free spell spam format either


sweetrobna

What happened though? Has it been dead for 2 years because of covid? Is there a new store that opened up? Was there some big problem or falling out with the local modern group?


KillAllHumans722

There definitely was a comeback after covid. Earlier this year, I attended SCGCON, and the weeks prior I went and modern was still alive and well. It wasn’t quite as many people as I remember, but it was doing good. This store has been the most successful in the area for quite sometime. If there was a falling out, I honestly would have never known. I’m kind of the quiet type, and I really only ever talked to people about the game, or if they randomly opened up to me about outside things. But I had never heard of anything like that.


Storkas

I used to play modern a lot, but when the shift was made to accept t3 win format modern slowly died for me. MTG is at it's best at t4‐5 format. Faster then that draw and play and other randomness factors are to important, and cards that can impact for free is needed like FoN, subtlety etc. Modern is a new format now, and people that still want to play the game don't want to invest into a new format or divide the player base. It is sad.


ExtensionHedgehog528

Clearly you haven't played modern recently because the whole point of mh2 was to make it a more interactive format - it mostly slowed the format down by allowing many decks to have answers. It added some powerful threats to make up for the high amounts of removal, but makes it a game of back and forth.


ekienhol

Same for my area, we used to have 30 player FNM but since mh2 its cut in half on good days.


rtfcandlearntherules

>What happened??? I don't know, you tell us. I assume the other people went off to college and got jobs in different towns. Modern events are bigger than ever where i live.


KillAllHumans722

I guess I never thought of it like that. If I didn’t have to move away for school and work 2 jobs to pay for it, I never would have stopped. That makes me more sad now looking back. I guess it’s a life lesson for me, learned from a card game of all things. Communities exist because we are a part of them. They don’t just magically exist forever.


rtfcandlearntherules

Yes, that's very true. You'll be surprised how fragile such communities are, but also how quickly they can suddenly form.


Ironshield185

Before people start dooming and glooming about MH2 and pricing: every LGS is different. Honestly, the modern players could have just moved to another store; one that better supported them. Alternatively, one asshole could have made everybody move with his conduct. There are dozens of reasons to leave for a new shop. Let's not confirmation bias our way into to saying yet that "modern is dying at LGS's, before seeing some statistics. Note: I'm not saying it ISN'T MH2, but we can't say for certain. I would just ask the owner or the regulars at the LGS and get the full story.


Strydder

Yep, people stopped showing up for modern a few weeks after Lurrus got banned. Tried a couple other stores and nothing either. There are more stores about 20miles away, but that's going to be $20 for gas and entry, nah.


RingOfMaRufBalls

Whenever I hear these stories I always wonder…if there was a large group who showed up to play Modern every week, why didn’t they just keep showing up but all agree to not play MH2 cards? Or put a budget limit on decks? I would much rather keep playing fun games of Magic the way my group enjoys, and ignore whatever Wizards thinks the format should look like. Sure you’re not sanctioned to make the next Pro Tour Qualifier or whatever, but at least you’re having fun. And getting 20-odd people into the LGS weekly is surely worth some prize support from the store. Kitchen Table Modern if you will.


RoyalCollectables

I'm hoping that I can change that. I play almost every format. I would love to see people play what they love.


roninsti

If you end up in the “if you can’t beat them, join them” camp. Play cedh. No rule 0, no Nonsense. Shuffle up and start throwing punches.


crazybaloth

Since everyone is giving their anecdotes we fire modern twice a week with 30-50 people and hit the 72 player cap on a modern rcq last weekend. Also I have really enjoyed the mh2 format.