T O P
Play_To_Nguyen

Just you wait, we'll bring Goblins all the way to at least A tier


Res_Novae

You just know theres a goblin deck out there. With the tools they got recently there has to be! People aren’t experimenting enough I think.


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AitrusX

Hordemaster goes a long way to insulating you from fury blowouts


Procyonlotor360

How do you think it compares to Yawgmoth? The resiliency of the combo to gravehate and the strength of the backup plan both seem really nice.


Play_To_Nguyen

I think it's generally stronger than Yawg now, but it does have matchups that are distinctly different than Goblins'. If there's a bunch of Hammer, Titan, Burn etc, I'd whip out Yawg for a weekend but otherwise I'm gonna default to Goblins.


LearnDifferenceBot

> If there a *they're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)


IncurableHam

Bad bot


LearnDifferenceBot

Bad human.


IncurableHam

Joke's on you, I'm not a human


Procyonlotor360

The biggest pro I can see for playing Yawg is the toolbox. You have better tutors for your silver bullets, and I think Endurance is better than Leyline of the Void right now. That said, I plan on doing some testing of Goblins online. It definitely won’t replace Yawg as my paper deck though, as I just finished the mainboard this week.


jewafrica

Surprised rhinos isn’t higher with all the leyline binding and omnath splashes


Raliator2

Came to ask this


jewafrica

I hate Cascade Decks so I’m hoping it stays in C


Raliator2

Lol, I main rhinos so I get your hatred for it


jewafrica

Lucky to be you rn. How u feeling about the 5 color version?


Raliator2

Honestly, I need more reps, it FEELS worse than temur because of the variation of game plans but I feel like it has more tools for us now with binding answering a lot of problem permanents


Sodek_MTG

Personally, I would put it much higher, but we get the data only from MOdern Challanges, PTQ and Showcases - the results are kinda brutal sometimes. But I strongly believe that Rhinos will be much better in the near future thanks to Leyline Binding.


Toto-rollin

Sometimes I really wonder if Murktide is S Tier or if the average Murktide player is just okay


Blenderhead36

The guy who won Dreamhack Dallas a few months back said something about Murktide that I've kept thinking about. He was on 4c when he won. His opinion was that Ledger Shredder made the deck worse for the average player because it makes the deck ask for too many different things. Particularly against 4c, the optimal line is usually to stick a big Murktide and hold up Counterspell to protect it; it only takes a few turns of that to win the game. But Ledger Shredder motivates the Murktide player to cast 2 spells a turn, and that's much easier to do on your turn than your opponent's. So a lot of average players will go for Shredder value, leaving their hard to kill, game-ending threat vulnerable while powering up a threat that's relatively easy for most decks running black or white to remove. A good player knows which to focus on, but most players will have spent more time with a Shredder on board than a big Murktide. I've previously heard Dragons Rage Channeler championed for a similar reason: the card won't let you play it wrong. Once Darcy is big, she's going into the red zone whether you like it or not. This forces her controller to be assertive and close the game out, which is exactly what a UR tempo Deck *should* be doing. Now we're several months post-SNC. DRC has been almost completely abandoned in favor of Ledger Shredder. This build is more powerful, but also less obvious. More options is good, *as long as you're good at the decisions they offer.* If you're not, more options mean more chances to misplay. So it wouldn't surprise me if the gap between good and average Murktide players has grown since the release of SNC.


Soramaro

Solid analysis


Shepherd733

As a titan player my turn two is crucial for landing dryad or azusa and when a murk player taps out turn 2 for a shredder instead of holding counter spell I am so happy


Magnaguard100

murktide is a good deck but most people who play it are bad/average which pulls the overall winrate down, which makes people feel like its a good deck but not truly S tier. there are so many times where you stick a threat and tempo your opponent and it doesnt feel like you ever left the drivers seat. there are no free wins with the deck and you have a ton of micro decisions to make and if you mess up you can easily lose.


scar_face40

What theoretical tier below C tier would 8 rack fall into?


Slotherang

Fun deck for FNM tier!


mirrislegend

What is "RB Scam"?


SECRET_AGENT_ANUS

RB scam is a rakdos deck that tries to evoke Grief or Fury t1 and give it undying using one of the many 1 mana pseudo-undying cards. It also gets to play Ragavan and Blood Moon. Many decks lose to a 4/4 Fury on turn one, and the rest tend to lose to double Grief or a fast Blood Moon.


Judge_Ehud

Don't forget dauthi voidwalker, that card scams plenty of games through mb grave hate or stealing bombs. Just last night I got to live the dream and cast an Emrakul the Aeons Torn from someone playing coffers ramp.


SECRET_AGENT_ANUS

That's fucked up ngl


Wiseon321

This deck sounds hella fun.


SECRET_AGENT_ANUS

Oh, it absolutely is. If fun was a contributing factor to tier I think Scam would be tier 0. The lines are so silly, but it works.


AitrusX

A terrible name that makes no sense whatsoever for a midrange rakdos deck that uses undying effects like malakir rebirth on fury/grief especially as a turn one play. It is pretty close to ephemerate for these cards as you rarely need a third fury trigger and the variants that add a counter can actually meaningfully change the clock - a 4/4 fury turn one is kind of no joke esp if it chewed up a one drop on the way down - same for a 4/3 grief that already stripped two cards and starts swinging menace style t2


ThePuppetSoul

The reason it's Scam is because it is the most metagame dependent deck in the format. It only works because none of the removal in the format lines up well into a 4/4 doublestriker on turn 1 with CMC5, except the card itself. If people went back to playing Path, the deck would be unplayable.


jancithz

I understood it to mean the whole deck is a scam to put giga value creatures onto the board early and for cheap


ryscott85

If that’s the case, leyline binding should cause a down tick in its playability.


chrf8t

Except you can get a 4/4 fury down turn 1, you can't get a leyline binding down until turn 2-3.


AitrusX

This is some goofy ass logic. Murktide has been a format defining card that was invulnerable to the prismatic/heat/push removal right at mh2 drop and nobody was like “ah man that scam deck with the two mana 8/8 flyer”. Turn one fury dies to the same stuff murktide does. The name is completely idiotic no matter what the explanation of it is.


ryscott85

Rhinos at tier C is a bit disingenuous IMO.


Ironshield185

I feel like after taking 1st and 3rd in two GPs recently, Jeskai Grinding Breach should be higher than C tier, at least over Rhinos.


HeleonWoW

While Breach is powerfull Tierlists are often about popularity, but I agree. Breach is excellent right now. Also Sodeks impression of Breach differs so much from every Breachpilot with experience, that I tjink he misjudges it due to not enough exp with and against the deck, which is fair because the deck has only picked up recenrly.


Ironshield185

Mm, I wouldn't agree that tierlists are about popularity; they're almost solely about power levels. Popularity would be Usage Stats that pop up here every once and a while. As for the rest of the comment, agreed. Sounds like the analysis misses the mark, but its understandable because of how relatively new the deck is.


HeleonWoW

Its a mix of both. If a deck is unpopular it will putg less copiey in top8


DailyAvinan

I'm still so confused by why anyone is using "S tier" right now. S Tier is Hogaak, Eldrazi, Tibalt Cascade, etc. Murktide is just A tier


Blenderhead36

Different systems. Magic used to use Tier 1 (Powerful, meta-defining deck), Tier 2 (less optimal, but still playable decks), the people would pepper in stuff like 1.5 and 2.5. In that tier scheme, Tier 0 was pejorative that indicated a deck that was overpowered to the point that it was negatively impacting the format. The S-E scale comes from Japanese video games, with the scale used in Japanese schools. S simply means the best options, E the worst, and everything else a gradient in between. Tier SS is the equivalent of Tier 0 in the old system. Personally, I prefer the S-E system. It makes it easier to denote a gradient of deck strengths in a simple format.


KJM31422

"S tier but legal"?


Unit-00

One of my biggest pet peeves is people making tier lists that go like SSS+, SSS, SS, S, A... Like just label them A, B, C, D it's not that hard.


Blenderhead36

My understanding is that anything above Tier S carries the same negative connotation as Tier 0: this is overpowered to the point that it's hurting the game.


Unit-00

Yeah but that's dumb because that should just be S. S=0, A=1, etc...


Blenderhead36

Yeah, totally. People gotta be hyperbolic to get them clicks. Today's best deck? It's the BEST DECK IN ANY TCG EVER SMASH THAT LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE BUTTON!!!


VoidZero52

There’s A tier, then there’s S tier, and there’s “Tier 0” which is “play this deck, specifically play against this deck, or lose.”


BTYOR

Is it even the best deck? The top of the format all seem to have a pretty good case, and tournament results I've seen don't indicate it's clearly the top choice.


VoidZero52

Tier 0 is stuff like Hogaak and eldrazi winter. There are no tier 0 decks right now.


BTYOR

That seems like a lot of semantics to create a distinction that might not actually exist


swiebertjeee

Last week I was at the qualifier for modern and there were a lot of goblin players. One of them made it to top 8. Also to note there were no similiar decks in the top 8! (92 players) It was uw control, Rhinos domain, 4c omnath, goblins, murktide, amulet, grindstone and one I dont remember. Uw control came out on top there with rhinos domain in second place.


Judderr

Is Murktide still S tier with Leyline Binding in the format?


Magnaguard100

depends on how prevalent it becomes. with more bindingd means clunkier mana bases so blood moon being mainboard may be more common. that and or more spell pierces/shifting to hexproof spells to protect.


Bunyio

Wat happened to cabal coffers?


Slotherang

Its a fun deck for FNM, but it's never put up serious numbers in the top 8s of tournaments.


Mine99

Asmo getting zero love smh


TizonaBlu

Where does Cookbook fit in?


Pingbock-Seek

hammer makes great again!


Pseudocaesar

Burn is never B Tier.


GoatPatronus

Higher or lower?


Pseudocaesar

Burn is always A tier. It dictates the speed of the format. Sure there will usually always be better decks than Burn, but Burn is the gatekeeper to the A tier decks. If you cant beat Burn you've got no chance against the other A Tier decks. Burn is the sort of deck that hasn't changed in years yet you can still show up to a tournament and be confident of competing and in with a shout of top 8.


TheStamfordFridge

Spot on.


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moofumpus

Your not wrong. A buddy of mine has been mopping up the local meta with his aggro slivers deck. Just crushing 4c and other top meta decks. It's pretty hillarious.


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moofumpus

Your list is very close to my buddies. Only big difference is he's running some changeling in the slots that you have 2 ofs. Don't remember the names off hand but one is the mono black one drop that's unblockable and the other is the 3/3 doublestriker that costs 1 less for each creature type you've got. The last one being the biggest pain in the ass to deal with.


Comprehensive_View_3

I bought into modern very hard a few months before MH2 with Humans, Eldrazi Tron, Burn, Dredge, and Then mono red Obosh and the only relevant deck out of all of them is Burn.


Redrum9891

No izzet blitz? Sad day