T O P
  • By - GPL1

iunoionnis

Learning to play against countermagic is difficult. I've played UW for years now and spent a lot of time studying control, so here's the general tips I would give you. 1. **Always assume that they have a counterspell.** If your opponent leaves two islands untapped, while they could be bluffing interaction, in the modern format you need to assume that they have the interaction. Only "make them have it" if it is the strategically best play (i.e. if you cannot win otherwise, if you have nothing to lose by them countering it, if you are both down to top decking). 2. **Just because they have a counterspell does not necessarily mean you shouldn't cast your cards.** Good control players are looking to counter specific cards. Against your deck post-board, I am almost always saving at least one counterspell for Tourach. You are a mid-range deck, not a combo deck. A combo deck can afford to say "go" and wait for the right time to play the combo. A midrange deck needs to be pumping out threats and making trades. You need to be making plays each turn to use up their resources. 3. **Try to bait counterspells.** If you have a Tourach in hand, play out your Liliana as bait, then follow it up with Tourach. 4. **You can see your opponent's hand. Your opponent cannot see yours.** This means that you do not need to have Tourach in hand to be threatening Tourach. This comes down to being able to read your opponent and judge their level of play. But against a good control player, you should have no problem resolving threats if you are threatening to resolve more dangerous cards later. *Just like you are assuming that they have counterspell, they are assuming that you have the thing they need to counter.* 5. **Use Thoughtseize effects to clear a path for your cards.** Against control, especially post-board if you're expecting hate, turn one thoughtseize is your best opening play. 6. **The best cards to take with Thoughtseize are usually cards that draw more cards.** The majority of the time, you are taking \[\[Archmage's Charm\]\]. This is because you're an attrition deck trying to win by having more cards than your opponent. Teferi, Hero of Dominaria is also a card that shuts down your deck. 7. **A counterspell still trades one for one.** Since you are trying to have more cards than your opponent, if they counter a creature, you have simply traded this card for a counterspell. So try to make beneficial trades so you can get your value cards out. 8. **Read Reid Duke's famous article on thoughtseize.** This talks about the difference between counterspell decks and thoughtseize decks.


Jemosss

This is an awesome post. Thank you


MTGCardFetcher

[Archmage's Charm](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/7/57b852b6-4388-4a41-a5c0-bba37a5c1451.jpg?1562201300) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archmage%27s%20Charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/40/archmages-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57b852b6-4388-4a41-a5c0-bba37a5c1451?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


GPL1

Thanks super good post. About the Tourach, most of the times you would wait it to be kicked or you need to put it on the play fast without kicking it and be aggroish with it?


iunoionnis

It depends a lot on the specific situation. While obviously kicking Tourach is brutal, sometimes it can go unanswered just as a 2/1 with protection from white that scales with your hand discard effects. I personally will try to hold onto a Fire//Ice to answer an early Tourach (or, in an emergency situation, for killing it while the discard is on the stack), but some lists just can't answer a creature with protection from white, especially not in the late game (if it resolves as a 2/1, UW has to either hit it with fire or block with a snap).


MonkeyBrogdon13

The best answer that Uw can’t really deal with is [[Tourach, Dread Cantor]]


AxelrodGunnerson

This. As a UW player, Tourach is a house. The only thing that gets it is supreme verdict or fire/ice if he's still small enough. A resolved Tourach can win you the game.


MTGCardFetcher

[Tourach, Dread Cantor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/3/f3526751-0101-4d91-a496-c53cd92326e0.jpg?1626095981) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tourach%2C%20Dread%20Cantor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/102/tourach-dread-cantor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f3526751-0101-4d91-a496-c53cd92326e0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Dr_Doomblade

I main UW control. Tourach is the card in black I really don't want to see.


Snakeskins777

Uhh tourach...


Diskappear

Grief + undying evil to get a beater going early and do some hand damage Tourach Dread Cantor pro white since it doesnt get marched, prismatic, pathed and gets bigger on discards


feral_troll

Hi! I play a similar list as you. Invoke despair has been INSANE in this match-up. I usually try to bait out their counters with a kicked bloodchief or lilina and then go in with invoke. Ittl get you card advantage and ping for 4-6 most times. All you need is 2-3 to go off for you to scoop up the win with tourach.


GPL1

What do you do when they put Narset on the play and do the handlock combo?


Alozzk

Narset isn't a card that sees modern play though, most UW lists are on some split of teferi, time raveler / teferi, hero of dominaria / the wandering emperor / jace, the mind sculptor, i've never ever seen UW cast narset in modern.


GPL1

I did look UW deck list on mtgtop8 and many decks use it, I was surprised. This is why I got destroyed hehe.


feral_troll

I'm usually removing narset or tefferi the moment they hit the board with marches. But if they get you locked you're kinda screwed. Your best options are to discard their hands as much as possible and win asap


MakeMoreFae

One of the best pieces of advice I got for control decks is to overload their mana. They can only counter so many cards a turn before they run out of mana. Cheap threats cast in succession can help. Another bit that helped is to use what's working. If your Seasoned Pyromancer and tokens are doing a solid 4 damage each turn. There's no reason to escape that Kroxa. Make them cast their Verdict for as little value as possible.


GossamerGlenn

I assume just a bad match maybe since your not playing too much at a time but they are trying to react to your plays so experiment with holding cards so you can sacrifice one to the counter gods and resolve another. Casting the worst spell first is pretty standard so throw them off with one pattern thsn switch it when here abs there


kitsune0327

3-4 tourach


Homedelivery27

play more discard like [[inquisition of kozilek]] and maybe even some number of [[duress]] from the sideboard


DiogenesLaertys

In the showcase Modern challenge, none of the GDS played any inquisition. It's a bad card for 4C meta. Grief would be the better card as it can hit their best cards in solitude and fury. For UW control, it hits the solitude.


GPL1

You think it is worth it? Can you counter the Evoke ability?


DrawSense-Brick

Evoke is an alternate casting cost, not an ability.


MTGCardFetcher

[inquisition of kozilek](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/7/17f38740-20fd-4097-90f8-f0c2c2ff7281.jpg?1655476752) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=inquisition%20of%20kozilek) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/80/inquisition-of-kozilek?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17f38740-20fd-4097-90f8-f0c2c2ff7281?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [duress](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/0/c0a72721-2a4a-4d48-a7b0-2370b90b8619.jpg?1634349768) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=duress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/98/duress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c0a72721-2a4a-4d48-a7b0-2370b90b8619?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Ananeos

Monoblack what? Coffers control?


GPL1

Kind of yes.


Ananeos

Full coffers control should be favored against most control variants including UW. If you don't have the full list you should be focusing on completing it.


GPL1

But what can you do against Narset? There is so many counterspells and if I wait to bait the counter I just get locked by Narset combo.


Ananeos

UW control doesn't play Narset lock at all. But if you run against it: Thoughtsieze it out of their hand early, March of Wretched Sorrow or Bloodchief's Thirst, Karn TGC to grab threats like Ballista and Golos.


GPL1

I did remove my golos from the main, i did kept 1 in my sideboard. I guess ill add more discard and some Tourach.


VERTIKAL19

Well you basically signed up for an awful matchup with that deck choice. UW is basically built to deal with exactly that. You need cards like Tourach and more Lilis most likely, but the matchup will still be bad. You should probably also share a list if you pilot a rogue deck because while we know what UW control looks like we don't really knwo what your mono b list looks like.


Roy_Z

Hi, Im another monoB player, this are cards that I tested vs UW, U can play a few \[\[Extirpate\]\] and end with part of the counters of the UW or the win cons, it have split second and its also uncontrarrestable. \[\[Hex parasite\]\] vs planeswalkers also copies of \[\[Misra factory\]\] (Remember its a 3/3 bloquer, in case of need) \[\[Murderous rider\]\] or a card that UW players hate... \[\[Delirium skeins\]\], also if they play no artifacts \[\[Wrench mind\]\] its a good option. If u dont wanna get flood play \[\[Ravens crime\]\] because vs UW its always a long game To end \[\[pithing needle\]\] its awesome vs PWs ​ Have a nice weekend ;P


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Extirpate](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/1/4171dbd3-96d6-4e7a-afac-5b2882bf3872.jpg?1619395440) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Extirpate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/114/extirpate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4171dbd3-96d6-4e7a-afac-5b2882bf3872?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hex parasite](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/3/43502078-5349-4e29-8e7d-277654a9a71e.jpg?1562877073) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hex%20parasite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/137/hex-parasite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43502078-5349-4e29-8e7d-277654a9a71e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Misra factory](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/c/7c05c946-66c3-4785-90f9-ca0c606e036b.jpg?1631589892) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mishra%27s%20Factory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/248/mishras-factory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c05c946-66c3-4785-90f9-ca0c606e036b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Murderous rider](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/7/e73d8a84-2c0d-423c-89c7-71de0af9e1ac.jpg?1572490190)/[Swift End](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/7/e73d8a84-2c0d-423c-89c7-71de0af9e1ac.jpg?1572490190) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=murderous%20rider%20//%20swift%20end) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/97/murderous-rider-swift-end?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e73d8a84-2c0d-423c-89c7-71de0af9e1ac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Delirium skeins](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/4/64b0d9e7-4a0f-4f07-99ae-31c3c9f0037a.jpg?1593813247) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Delirium%20skeins) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/65/delirium-skeins?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64b0d9e7-4a0f-4f07-99ae-31c3c9f0037a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Wrench mind](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/6/360a6ada-b257-44b8-b830-aaa122474bce.jpg?1562847480) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wrench%20mind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/115/wrench-mind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/360a6ada-b257-44b8-b830-aaa122474bce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ravens crime](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/2/7271436b-897a-4b24-a5d2-d29dbea8c1bf.jpg?1561967380) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Raven%27s%20Crime) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mma/95/ravens-crime?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7271436b-897a-4b24-a5d2-d29dbea8c1bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [pithing needle](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/7/776899f8-e977-42b7-8b54-6f726a349e3c.jpg?1655476466) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pithing%20needle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/312/pithing-needle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/776899f8-e977-42b7-8b54-6f726a349e3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


GPL1

Thank you for the awesome response! The problem is I have Karn the Great Creator so my sideboard is narrow. I love Extirpate and Hex Parasite these are good ideas. I need to find spots for these cards because I need to add some Tourach as well.


YZA26

Have you tried playing a different color?


GPL1

Sorry I play Mono Black , I find it satisfying and clean.


YZA26

Haha ok sorry I was mostly being tongue in cheek. I play a lot of black and it often feels very bad right now. Overall UW should be one of your very best matchups. You need to recognize how they win - card advantage - and work to deny it. Also recognize that trading 1 for 1 is fine for black as long as you are playing castle locthwain, which is a very difficult card for them to deal with. In a very long game you will outpace their card advantage as long as you don't let problematic walkers stick.


Puro_Guapo

Play inquisition of kozilek. Not very expensive and almost as good as thoughtseize


Icy_Second6748

Play aspiringspikes rb rock


GPL1

Sorry I want mono colored decks only. Mono Black back in the days was my thing.