T O P

Does Mill have any response to decks running effects like Nexus of Fate or Emrakul, the Aeons Torn .

Does Mill have any response to decks running effects like Nexus of Fate or Emrakul, the Aeons Torn .

bamzing

**https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/iwn4z9/does_mill_have_any_response_to_decks_running**


Aerim

Emrakul is easier to deal with - that's what the [[Soul-Guide Lantern]]s in the sideboard are for. Nexus of Fate is very difficult to answer as a mill deck - replacement effects like RIP won't change it and really you're just limited to [[Tasha's Hideous Laughter]], or having them draw it without 7 mana.


MTGCardFetcher

[Soul-Guide Lantern](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/c/7c850b94-75c9-4457-8b5e-1193352d6fcb.jpg?1581481214) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul-Guide%20Lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/237/soul-guide-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c850b94-75c9-4457-8b5e-1193352d6fcb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tasha's Hideous Laughter](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/4/c4932113-904f-427a-9566-509cc008f3ef.jpg?1627703920) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tasha%27s%20Hideous%20Laughter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/78/tashas-hideous-laughter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4932113-904f-427a-9566-509cc008f3ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Eldebryn

Mikokoro works too vs Nexus and I still keep a copy in my list.


Dublomon

For Nexus of fate there is [[Tasha's Hideous Laughter]]. Emrakul and things like [[Gaea's Blessing]] also get hit by it and there are cards like [[Surgical Extraction]] and [[Extirpate]] as well. I don't think that nexus of fate should be an issue because it almost doesn't see play in Modern. In a FNM it might still show up put Tasha's Hideous Laughter might do the job.


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Tasha's Hideous Laughter](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/4/c4932113-904f-427a-9566-509cc008f3ef.jpg?1627703920) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tasha%27s%20Hideous%20Laughter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/78/tashas-hideous-laughter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4932113-904f-427a-9566-509cc008f3ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Gaea's Blessing](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/3/23cf81ed-b86c-42b8-b796-2032b0a3654a.jpg?1562732710) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gaea%27s%20Blessing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/161/gaeas-blessing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23cf81ed-b86c-42b8-b796-2032b0a3654a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Surgical Extraction](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/e/6e438caf-9373-4de8-b4ac-212f5036e677.jpg?1562263333) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Surgical%20Extraction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/99/surgical-extraction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e438caf-9373-4de8-b4ac-212f5036e677?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Extirpate](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/1/4171dbd3-96d6-4e7a-afac-5b2882bf3872.jpg?1619395440) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Extirpate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/114/extirpate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4171dbd3-96d6-4e7a-afac-5b2882bf3872?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MatoFIVE

Tasha's Hideous Laughter is probably good enough, but I guess you could always try sideboarding [[Unmoored Ego]].


MTGCardFetcher

[Unmoored Ego](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/5/95aecc12-3363-41f7-9b58-277c81859670.jpg?1572893898) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unmoored%20Ego) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/212/unmoored-ego?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95aecc12-3363-41f7-9b58-277c81859670?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Ruin Crab](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/3/738ce273-c938-42d2-83b2-c4f5f4000b0b.jpg?1604194671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruin%20Crab) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/75/ruin-crab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/738ce273-c938-42d2-83b2-c4f5f4000b0b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Nexus of Fate](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/1/f163cfbf-6df6-4af5-9fe4-23b0d511586a.jpg?1610070136) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nexus%20of%20Fate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/306/nexus-of-fate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f163cfbf-6df6-4af5-9fe4-23b0d511586a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rest in Peace](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/f/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470.jpg?1562439074) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rest%20in%20Peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/32/rest-in-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Drown in the Loch](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/8/b/8bf5df5b-164d-4ec2-a5e6-bbaea152e271.jpg?1572490739) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drown%20in%20the%20Loch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/188/drown-in-the-loch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8bf5df5b-164d-4ec2-a5e6-bbaea152e271?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Rumpled_NutSkin

Not nexus, since it's a replacement effect, but [[surgical extraction]] and [[crypt incursion]] can exile them in response to the shuffle trigger


MTGCardFetcher

[surgical extraction](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/e/6e438caf-9373-4de8-b4ac-212f5036e677.jpg?1562263333) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=surgical%20extraction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/99/surgical-extraction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e438caf-9373-4de8-b4ac-212f5036e677?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [crypt incursion](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/3/c3b71cc5-0a81-4cab-bae3-49335c04aaaa.jpg?1562931583) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=crypt%20incursion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/23/crypt-incursion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3b71cc5-0a81-4cab-bae3-49335c04aaaa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


CapableBrief

Lots of people missing that Nexus never actually hits the graveyard lmao As others have mentioned though: Tasha's is your best bet against Nexus. It is likely to hit less cards vs those decks too so you are probably more likely to be able to sandbag them for when they deck size is lower.


WeirdPumpkin

You can also [[unmoored ego]] it if necessary, though I don't think that card is even run in mill anymore. I guess it's sweet sideboard tech if uh.. wilderness rec ever becomes a terror Man I love wilderness rec though..


MTGCardFetcher

[unmoored ego](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/5/95aecc12-3363-41f7-9b58-277c81859670.jpg?1572893898) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=unmoored%20ego) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/212/unmoored-ego?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95aecc12-3363-41f7-9b58-277c81859670?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


AitrusX

Something I don’t get about nexus - if it’s the last card in your deck you will draw it. If you have seven mana you can now take infinite turns but that only matters if you have a way to win. If you don’t have seven mana you die on your next draw step. Is it just that usually by the time you’re on your last card you have something on board that can win with infinite turn? Still seems risky compared to emrakul just reshuffling your entire yard in and reloading your options to win


Necrocreature

\[\[Blue Sun's Zenith\]\] is a popular way to win. You're missing the point of the deck, it's a combo that fits into a tempo sorta shell (or at least it was last time i played it). If you don't have seven mana, you're doing something wrong. \[\[Wilderness Reclamation\]\] is typically how it works, and 10 mana, Zenith and Nexus win the game, since you just make your opponent draw infinitely until they lose.


AitrusX

Whut I know what the card does. People are talking about it as a way to stop mill not a way to spam infinite turns in wilderness rec (a deck that basically doesn’t exist). There were times nexus would show up in uw control sides presumably for mill but that doesn’t make sense to me as per above post


Necrocreature

Looking at a mill list, it's possible that mill just can't beat Nexus of fate, depending on the variant, and since there are so few other ways in the deck to win, they might just draw to death, especially if their other wincons (lurrus for example) are exiled.


AitrusX

But it would be best case a draw? If the player has seven mana and nexus and no other cards then yea they get infinite turns but without a way to win that’s either a draw or a game infraction?


viomonk

Wilderness reclamation is making a resurgence lately. Aspiring Spike has been brewing with it lately and doing well and it's been gaining traction .


MTGCardFetcher

[Blue Sun's Zenith](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/0/500a2aa4-712f-41be-920e-f2f448ff83d0.jpg?1562435461) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blue%20Sun%27s%20Zenith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/44/blue-suns-zenith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/500a2aa4-712f-41be-920e-f2f448ff83d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Wilderness Reclamation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/4/94a28102-dfbe-49e9-b64f-52b552afac1b.jpg?1628801855) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wilderness%20Reclamation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/196/wilderness-reclamation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94a28102-dfbe-49e9-b64f-52b552afac1b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Adamcapps08

You're right, you do need a way to win still, but if you are able to take an infinite number of turns, against mill almost anything can become a way to win. Most decks that would play Nexus will have either Shark Typhoon or some other win condition. A single 1/1 shark will win. You could have a single 3/1 creature and that will win since crabs can't block it forever. A 5 mana Teferi will be able to ult, then minus targeting itself, then the mill player will have 0 permanents and never be able to resolve any spell that matters before everything they have gets exiled again.


AitrusX

But you could play emrakul and just reshuffle and actually have win cons in your deck. The nexus plan only works if you have a win condition on board when you run out of other cards. For control in particular that’s not a sure thing as you may only have shark and teferi - man lands won’t likely work as you need seven mana for nexus so you don’t just draw it and die. I dunno all told nexus just seems like a pretty flakey out to mill compared to eldrazi. Maybe it’s better when you are playing tarmogoyf or something so you know you have a clock and just need time


Adamcapps08

Emrakul is not a win condition for control, though it is a decent option for anti mill. There are upsides and downaides to both Emrakul and Nexus. Emrakul puts more than 1 card back in your deck, but the downside is that you can get your graveyard exiled with the trigger on the stack. Nexus only puts 1 card back into your deck, but the upside is that there is NO way to stop it from happening besides exiling it directly from the library, like using Tashas. Because of how mill works, the control player will never have 15 mana in play. It's just basically impossible, so Emrakul can't ever really be cast. Nexus does not actually win the game on its own, but ANY threat + nexus as the final card becomes a win. Mill. Cannot answer a resolved planes walker, so JTMS can just +2 enough times to ult twice, the first ult empties their hand then the second ult empties their library, you pass and win. 5 mana teferi can do as I explained, same with shark typhoon. It comes down to your local meta, your own playstyle and deck construction, and some other things. I personally play main deck rest in piece in my jeskai control right now. Emrakul doesn't work with that so nexus is the better choice for me. Some metas might have lantern control, which Emrakul is better against since even if they make you draw it you can just get to 8 cards, discard it and reshuffle, and then they can't win because you eventually get to go through your deck infinitely and play every land, then the lantern deck has to give you spells to draw.


-defg

I’m not really sure how many Nexus of Fates there are running around right now but a lot of mill decks play main deck copies of [[Surgical Extraction]] and then some [[Soul-Guide Lantern]] in the sideboard.


Igotprettymad

As i said in another comment: "It's a replacement effect, it doesn't get inside the graveyard, you can't use lantern or surgical in response. "If Nexus of Fate would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal Nexus of Fate and shuffle it into its owner's library instead."


MTGCardFetcher

[Surgical Extraction](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/e/6e438caf-9373-4de8-b4ac-212f5036e677.jpg?1562263333) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Surgical%20Extraction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/99/surgical-extraction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e438caf-9373-4de8-b4ac-212f5036e677?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Soul-Guide Lantern](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/7/c/7c850b94-75c9-4457-8b5e-1193352d6fcb.jpg?1581481214) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Soul-Guide%20Lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/237/soul-guide-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c850b94-75c9-4457-8b5e-1193352d6fcb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


anonymeplatypus

Would rest in peace Work?


kami_inu

Emrakul yes, nexus no


Living_End

They can use cards that exile the graveyard in response to the shuffle effect. Additionally things like extrapate and surgical extraction are really good vs combo decks as well.


Igotprettymad

It's a replacement effect, it doesn't get inside the graveyard. "If Nexus of Fate would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal Nexus of Fate and shuffle it into its owner's library instead."


Living_End

Sure that is 1 card though. It doesn’t seem like as much a problem as emi. My solution works for just about every card people are playing to combat mill in modern. I don’t see many nexus of fate.


meodp_rules

>Sure that is 1 card though Yes, but the thing is though that as long as that 1 card remains in the library and the Nexus player has 7 lands, the mill player can never win the game afaik. Of course, Emmy is a much more popular card in modern though, you are right.


Tr0z3rSnak3

Does mill still run surgical in the main?


Volgyi2000

Yes. But there are some cards Surgical can't answer.


KarnSilverArchon

Graveyard hate I assume.


Kyamboros

Tasha's let's you exile it.


GetBackBaby

[[Test of Talent]] when the opponent cast it could be a solution.


MTGCardFetcher

[Test of Talent](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/e/6e2b6236-b40c-430c-98b0-7940b942657a.jpg?1624590572) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Test%20of%20Talents) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/59/test-of-talents?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e2b6236-b40c-430c-98b0-7940b942657a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


FrenchOctopus1

The best way to beat those decks is taking comfort in them not being played in your mega But [[tasha’s hideous laughter]] works


MTGCardFetcher

[tasha’s hideous laughter](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/4/c4932113-904f-427a-9566-509cc008f3ef.jpg?1627703920) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tasha%27s%20Hideous%20Laughter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/78/tashas-hideous-laughter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4932113-904f-427a-9566-509cc008f3ef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call