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Sunday Modern Challenge Results - Sep 12 2021

Sunday Modern Challenge Results - Sep 12 2021

stillenacht

MonoR Eldrazi. I have no comments. Ragavan eldrazi. Bonecrusher giant-mainboard-no-cascade-eldrazi. Eldrazi obligator. Ramunap\_Ruins. 8 anti-tron cards SB. Eldrazi Control running 3 chalice and spreading seas is pretty funny to me. Just need to add a few mb rest in peace as well before the sideboard is empty ha. I see Ad Naus players now have a result to cling on to for 3 more months (while us dredge players have only sullen defiance)


Predicted

Having played against it, fury did a lot of heavy lifting.


Keljhan

You can't even pitch obligator to Fury right? Seems like the red count is low for 4x Fury but I guess that's what the 4x Shatterskull Smashing is for.


Reply_or_Not

Ragavan, bone crusher, and fury are all good cards and also play well with eldrazi, news at 11


ViridiVioletear

You made such a cool irony comment, and yet forgotten about the TRUE „why.” card in the list - Matter Reshaper. An Okapi won a challenge.


Chem_is_tree_guy

Selami gave Ad Naus hope all through the bad times (time between SSG ban and Profane Tutor printing). It only makes sense they continue to give us hope now in a world of extreme splash damage from SB cards meant for other decks.


TacotheMagicDragon

>Mono R Eldrazi #FERB I KNOW WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO TODAY


TrenCommandments

Sodeq on UW Mill?! Truly a dank, dark timeline.


giggity_giggity

He likes aggro decks that heavily utilize the graveyard :)


Vortex3113

I assumed because Wisnia went 10-0 with it yesterday just had to see haha


Sodek_MTG

Wisnia is my good friend from my LGS. I saw a few of his rounds on Discord (a stream for a group of polish friends) and I felt the power in the deck, especially this exact build. That's why I tried it on Sunday. The deck came out as harder than expected and I threw at least one match. So this 4-3 with 5-2 potential is promising :) There's a nonzero chance that Wisnia will write an article about his take on the archetype, so expect the unexpected on my Patreon :p Edit: it's ready!


donethemath

Mono Red Eldrazi ~~tron~~ with Blood Moon and Obsidian Charmaw in the sideboard makes me giggle


DanTopTier

It's not Tron, though. No Urza lands on sight!


7he5haman

It’s not running Tron


WeirdPumpkin

So, I'm a gigantic idiot admittedly but: how does the Yawgmoth deck actually win..? Is it just popping guys with undying to make them bigger, than proliferating then? Messenger recursion and grinding it out? Doesn't seem to be a big ole combo unless I'm missing something, which I probably am.


Zenith2017

With messenger, yawg, and an undying creature in play you can activate yawg back and forth on the other two creatures. The -1 counters cancel the undying +1, so you can ETB messenger repeatedly. They have to have higher life than you (otherwise their last cycle at least will kill them since it costs 1 life to activate), and I guess they can deck themselves too although it's never come up for me. The "spam fast undying creatures" plan can be pretty damn good though. It feels pretty awful to sit there with a hand full of bolts and monkeys against [[Young Wolf]]


WeirdPumpkin

Ohhhh geez I'm a total idiot and didn't think about putting the -1/-1 counters on the undying creatures to bring them back forever if needed That makes sense, and looks like a ton of fun to play to be honest. Though it's a bit more on the "fair" side of decks then I usually like to play


[deleted]

I think what helps make it a bit more unfair is the addition of other elements synergizing with the base combo: Blood artist lets you win on the spot with any two undying creatures + yawg and hapatra + yawg lets you clear your opponent's board while drawing a ton of cards. Plus the deck plays 8 tutor effects which allows you to take a toolbox approach to the sideboard. It's a very deep deck with many synergies that aren't really obvious on first glance and it's also very easy to misplay against and open yourself up to a line that you don't see coming. And between the nature of undying and the tutors, it's far more robust against removal and hate than you might think.


MTGCardFetcher

[Young Wolf](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/c/0c39aa40-ef5f-40f1-a6dd-fbce91172c50.jpg?1562897786) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Young%20Wolf) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dka/134/young-wolf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c39aa40-ef5f-40f1-a6dd-fbce91172c50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Andreagreco99

It’s very resilient to gy hate as it has 8 tutors for its answers to hate, can combo at instant speed and Yawg can still refill your hand if things are going bad. Also the plan B is good and Grist made the deck even better.


Octomyde

Dredge with 4 sagas, that's lit.


Wolfling217

It's running Loams, so it can do it. Not quite W6, but still good for looping Sagas.


finfan96

\-Sees modern \-Sees mono R Eldrazi \-Wat


MykirEUW

But Eldrazi is not viable, did they lie to me? Or... Did they just not want to try out the new stuff??!!


Traditional-Living-9

They’re keeping secrets from us


Zaneysed

Turn 1 monkey, turn 2 treasure token and eldrazi temple we off to the races


Lottapumpkins

Seeing monored Eldrazi makes me want to brew ~~extremely bad~~ a very viable mono black Eldrazi list


ElevatorFartConoysur

With some Heartless Summoning perhap?XD


TehSeksyManz

I like that idea


Lottapumpkins

Hmmm, I am kinda interested in a 3 mana [[reality smasher]]...


MTGCardFetcher

[reality smasher](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/2/52d4b652-a830-4fd4-94bb-c17c227f2928.jpg?1562911843) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reality%20smasher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ogw/7/reality-smasher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52d4b652-a830-4fd4-94bb-c17c227f2928?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


RomanAbbasid

Haven't played in a bit - what happened to prowess? Has it just been replaced by UR Murktide? Prowess was my favorite deck so I'm definitely gonna keep running it but I'm surprised to see that its never on any of these recent lists at all


AAABattery03

The best thing about UR Prowess was that it had [[Stormwing Entity]] (a “5” mana creature that dodged [[Fatal Push]]) while also running 12 1-2 mana creatures. This forced the opponent to have a wider spread of answers than just 4 Bolt 3-4 Push, and by taxing opponent’s removal and mana so heavily, Prowess was able to prey on fair decks and win (while still threatening fast aggro against unfair decks). [[Unholy Heat]] changes that dynamic completely. Now every creature in the deck can be answered by the 1-mana spells run by the most popular fair decks in the metagame (UR Murktide, GDS, RB Darcy). So Prowess got much worse.


RomanAbbasid

Yeah that makes a lot of sense - didn't play close attention to Modern Horizons 2 but holy shit, that card seems broken for a 1 mana instant. I definitely think its an uphill battle running prowess into a removal-heavy meta, but I don't feel like sinking $100+ to convert to murktide so I'm gonna stick with it for now.


MTGCardFetcher

[Stormwing Entity](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/5/0540ee72-6370-4f70-9526-6f441b3cac1e.jpg?1594735784) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stormwing%20Entity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/73/stormwing-entity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0540ee72-6370-4f70-9526-6f441b3cac1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fatal Push](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/e/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7.jpg?1598304715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fatal%20Push) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/93/fatal-push?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e9d8fe4-fd9b-4923-92bf-7dd6b8fa02e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Unholy Heat](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/b/2b73d294-6ab1-4051-9b0f-d8e335d37674.jpg?1626097096) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unholy%20Heat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/145/unholy-heat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b73d294-6ab1-4051-9b0f-d8e335d37674?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Keljhan

> fair decks in the metagame (UR Murktide, GDS, RB Darcy) Rakdos is *kind* of fair, excepting the companion mechanic (which is sort of why the deck works but I digress), are Murktide and GDS really considered fair? Murk is a 2-mana 8/8 and Shadow is a 1-mana 13/13 with Dress Down and usually at least a 6/6 otherwise. I know they're not combo, but when I think of "fair" I think UW control or Boomer Jund or Burn or humans. Basically decks that don't cheat on mana or abuse mechanical interactions.


AAABattery03

That’s not what fair means though? In Magic, fair is not a value judgment on whether a deck “abuses” interactions or not. It’s simply a question of whether a deck plays to the board to win or whether it tries to win while ignoring your game plan. Fair decks try to attack your board state, set up their own board state, and attack your life total incrementally. Unfair decks usually have a weak or negligible presence on board until they assemble something game-winning. Fair decks have *always* abused mechanical interactions because that’s how they keep up against unfair decks. Boomer Jund, in particular, shouldn’t be considered fair under your definition at all because that deck is built on insane card quality and built-in 2-for-1s (Tarmogoyf, Spyro, Lili, W6, etc). It’s *way* less fair in your definition than something like Murktide or GDS, who are build around efficient 1-for-1s followed by a hard to beat haymaker (the textbook definitions of fair decks).


CatatonicWalrus

In a podcast that I listen to about legacy, one of the hosts said something that I think applies to modern as well. He said something akin to, "every high tier legacy deck is abusing something unfair, no matter how fair the deck is." I think that every high tier modern deck is also abusing at least one thing that's "unfair", even fair decks. As a format grows (in card pool), the format condenses down to the most efficient answers and threats. In most cases, those efficient threats will be cards that cheat on mana or produce an overwhelming presence when they enter play (death's shadow, murktide regent, emrakul, archon of cruelty, etc.). The efficient answers, which likely only cost one mana to begin with, trend toward free or doing more than the original efficient answers for the same cost. You mention a few decks at the end there and I just want to highlight that they use cards that fit most people's definition of "unfair". UW control is abusing teferi time raveler, which is a card that most people do not consider "fair" since it is under costed for its effect. Boomer jund leans heavily on bloodbraid elf. BBE doesn't cheat on mana itself but the goal of the cascade is to cheat on mana to cast one of your value 3 drops, making 7 mana out of 4. Cascade is an inherently "unfair" mechanic that way. Humans is an aether vial deck. Aether vial cheats on so much mana throughout a game of magic. People don't blink at these cards, but they're ever-present in modern, even when they're not the best things to be doing. They're the "unfair" glue that holds a lot of fair decks together. Because they otherwise couldn't hang with decks like Tron, valakut, rhinos, living end, etc. that are doing the actual "broken" things in the format. TL;DR: unfair cards aren't inherently broken. Highly efficient answers and threats are the lynchpin of fair modern decks. The cards you mention are just the new highly efficient threats.


Keljhan

The way I understand “fairness” in Magic is whether or not the cards ~~do what they say on the card~~ play by the “normal” rules of the game. T3feri is mostly a fair card because he just does what he says: stops your opponent from playing at instant speed. The interaction with suspend is maybe a little unfair since you paid for the spell at sorcery speed but that’s a corner case. Unholy heat is extremely powerful, as is prismatic ending, but both are totally fair cards imo. They just do what they say and nothing else. On the flip side, Storm is the essence of an unfair mechanic. You cheat on mana with rituals, cheat on cards with Gifts and flashback and then you cheat the Storm mechanic itself by remanding the original spell but keep the copies to do it all over again. None of those cards are used in what I would call the “generic” effect of the card. They each exploit some interaction to increase the power of the card on its own. I agree that BBE and vial are unfair cards, but I would probably disagree on how much the respective decks lean on them for their game plan.


CatatonicWalrus

Ok, but that's not what you had said. You asked if murktide and death's shadow were fair cards. They do what they say they do. Why are they not "fair" to you? Is through the breach a fair card? Because it does what it says it does too but I don't think paying 5 mana for a 15/15 is "fair". And you cherry picked some removal spells. But solitude and fury are become more and more ubiquitous in the format, both of which have a free mode.


Keljhan

I’m not trying to argue with you mate I’m just explaining how I understand the concept of “fair”. What do you mean by “cherry-picking”? I never said solitude was a fair card. All the pitch elementals are unfair in that they can cheat on mana, but even more so with ephemerate etc. DS is unfair in that you can use dress down to make it a 13/13 at instant speed, and because the plethora of self-damage through lands and discard in Modern allows you to precisely lower your life total and exploit the design. Murktide is unfair because delve is inherently unfair but also because of the interactions with other Murktides and graveyard hate, making them grow even larger. The phrase “do what the card says” was poorly worded, that’s my mistake. Delve and evoke do what they say but they also cheat the mana cost printed on the card, so they kind of don’t do what the card says either. I wouldn’t say any card is 100% fair or 100% unfair, it’s more of a spectrum IMO. So Jund/UW are decks on the fairer side of the spectrum (though BBE and Solitude are unfair as you mentioned), while Hammertime is extremely unfair since it’s all about cheating the hammer onto its creatures (but it could technically play a fair game). TTB I would say is moderately unfair in combination with the Annihilator mechanic. TTB itself is made to put a big creature in but make the effect temporary. Flicker effects and lasting attack triggers cheat that intent and make it more unfair.


DailyAvinan

Everyone is overloaded on ways to kill Monkey and DRC which puts Swifty and Soul Scar in a rough spot would be my guess Also Chalice has been popular lately


F8Sealer

Lurrus is so OPPRESSIVE though!!!!!!!1111


DailyAvinan

Lol looking forward to the comments you get for this I think people just don't like *seeing* Lurrus everywhere. Not really a reason to ban it imo but it is what it is.


AAABattery03

I especially hate the argument that it should be banned because it’s too much better than all other companions or that it’s the best fair card to play at 3 mana. … Bolt is better than all Burn spells, Thoughtseize/IoK put all other discard spells to shame, Counterspell removed all debate about 2-mana countermagic, Bauble is literally a one-of-a-kind card, Darcy is inarguably the best 1-mana creature ever printed in Modern, and so on. Modern has always been and will always be the format where “best in slot” cards live. This applies for both old cards and new cards. Lurrus being the best 3-drop for fair Black decks is no different than Lili of the Veil being the best 3-drop for them.


DailyAvinan

Yeah I agree. A lot of people will also be in for a shock when, if they get Lurrus banned, they'll have to shell out $400 for Lilianas and $200 for Seasoned Pyromancers because those become the best in slot.


MykirEUW

Nonono. I tell you how it works: we ban everything until *insert Meta card that people started with* is good again.


gnowwho

We ban everything until splinter twin is meta again **but** we don't unban splinter twin


deathpunch4477

Hol up


Brickhouzzzze

Lurrus just gives aggro decks really good late games and they don't have to worry about drawing it in the early game when it does nothing. And it incidentally uses the graveyard which makes grave hate better, worsening dedicated graveyard decks. I was fine with her until dress down caught on. One-sided humility every turn should not be a thing in modern. It even wins the mirror by turning off opposing lurrus. Makes the elemental matchup way easier. She even beats all those "best cards" you named. You can get a buyback before they get priority against bolt. Against ts or counterspell you can buyback a creature that's already been dealt with. Counterspell even if you counter her, they added her to hand without spending a card so you're still trading down. There's a reason this conversation happens every thread. Not murktide, not elementals, not even urza's sage. It's always lurrus. People hate the cat.


AAABattery03

> Lurrus just gives aggro decks really good late games and they don't have to worry about drawing it in the early game when it does nothing. Lurrus gives Aggro decks a *workable* late game, not a really good one. It’s not like Burn, Mill, or Zoo are out here dominating Modern, they’re all tier 2… Lurrus’ most common showings are in Midrange (Rakdos Darcy / Grixis Shadow) and Combo (Hammer Time). > And it incidentally uses the graveyard which makes grave hate better, worsening dedicated graveyard decks. Yeah, Lurrus incidentally made graveyard decks worse, which is why Living End was putting 3-7 results in every single tournament for several weeks straight after MH2? By “graveyard decks” you *just* mean Dredge don’t you? Dredge just got worse because Sanctifier, not Lurrus. > I was fine with her until dress down caught on. One-sided humility every turn should not be a thing in modern. It even wins the mirror by turning off opposing lurrus. Makes the elemental matchup way easier. Dress Down is a cool and oppressive interaction, but if an opponent is paying 3+3 mana, then paying 2 mana EVERY end step, then the interaction just isn’t busted. Even Elemenetals has MULTIPLE ways to play around it (Teferi shuts it down entirely by turning off Flash, Solitude in response to EOT Dress Down gets them, Endurance in response to Lurrus or on your own end step bottoms the Dress Down, etc). > She even beats all those "best cards" you named. You can get a buyback before they get priority against bolt. Against ts or counterspell you can buyback a creature that's already been dealt with. Counterspell even if you counter her, they added her to hand without spending a card so you're still trading down. I’ll concede that Lurrus trades a bit too efficiently with countermagic and discard spells but I don’t understand how Bolt is an argument here. Are you **seriously** complaining about 6-mana not trading evenly with a 1-mana removal spell? Bolt doesn’t even trade evenly with Bloodbraid Elf, time to ban? > There's a reason this conversation happens every thread. Not murktide, not elementals, not even urza's sage. It's always lurrus. People hate the cat. Imo the conversation happens largely because a subset of Modern players insist that Midrange and Control decks should never change over time. I sincerely just *don’t* see the argument that Lurrus is stifling deck diversity when the meta has so much variety.


TheRecovery

This is just how this sub and magic Twitter behave now. I wouldn’t be surprised if Lurrus actually gets banned because Wizards is now more than happy to just cave to pressure on these things.


secretcharacter

There is a reason why this conversation happens every now and then. People like to complain.


slipman_

Around half or third of the decks have companions in every challengue thought. The complain about lurrus it's more a companion complain that lurrus itself.


AAABattery03

That’s just changing the goalposts. Literally last weekend, one of the few weekends where Kaheera and Jegantha made no showings, people were specifically using it as evidence that Lurrus himself is the problem and Companions are fine. Now suddenly it all sucks. Companions just… aren’t that broken. Lurrus is still obviously the most powerful, but I don’t understand how you can look at a metagame like this and say it’s Lurrus that’s the problem. Before Lurrus is even a consideration for a ban, there’s first Bauble, Unholy Heat, Urza’s Saga, Ragavan to all consider.


slipman_

Im not a representative of everyone who dislikes Lurrus or the mechanic.Speak for myself when i have stated varios times that the problem its not lurrus itself, its the mechanic. that mechanic sets a presedent in the game similar of what the ante rule, the Conspiracy rule set for the game. Effects outside the game. Instead of repeating the same arguments again and again i will probably do a post with stadistics eventually. For now ask yourself this questions:Kahera its showing off in decks that could Play snapcaster mage perfectly in their build, Why they have chosen to go for the vainilla 3/2? is that 8th card that good? Why tron would drop walking ballista for jegantha? Why drop walking ballista or something else? It is that 8th card that good?(perosnally i dont belive so) Hipotetically, WOTC prints another round of companions in any given set, 10 more of them, 3 of them are playable being generous, and go in diferent thecks that the ones that see play right now, At which point, Magic becomes a game where you should have a companion? or basically we have a commander?How many do you think we would see in a given top 32?I personally think, around 15 - 17 decks with companion. The difference with the mechanic amd the cards that you mention above, its that at least you have to draw them. there are games where you dont see them.Lurrus has become soo free and so prevalent, that you see them in decks that have no busnisses running it, like burn or mill.The companion mechanic does a powerfull effect, or a powerfull passive ability, however you choose to call it, to add a demonic tutor in your hand to search for this specific creature. When its as good as lurrus or yorion for example, its definetly worth it. Thats why we dont see any lover of 10+ Decks with compainions in any given top 32.


Brickhouzzzze

You can play every karn with jegantha


slipman_

true, brainfarted there, was thinking about karn for some reason when writing ballista xD


Aunvilgod

oh really I must have had really bad reading comprehension then for the past few months.


slipman_

well.... any given time, from 15 companions, 11 are lurruses so.... you have been reading well..


[deleted]

[удалено]


MykirEUW

The day we ban all the other modern staples. Nobody be like: okay, what colour can I play to do mediocre stuff?


[deleted]

[удалено]


rhythmicdiscord

Tell that to WotC's bottom line


MykirEUW

thats the thing about mythic rares basically since they were announced.


Istrolid

Why is this getting downvoted


[deleted]

[удалено]


NostalgiaBombs

they won’t ban a card because it costs a lot every removal spell in modern kills the monkey it’s not oppressive


blackhodown

There are several red lists in this top 32 that do not have ragavan. Are you lying because you don’t like the card, or can you just not read?


Kozymodo

Yes lets ban one of the few cards that encourages people to play interaction. Lets ban fetches next. I see them like every game at this point. Like if im running lands, I basically need them in my deck


Living_End

Congrats to Jundilion on their top finish with Living End. Really cool list, I love the 4/4/2 split of FoN/Grief/Subtlety. I feel it gives the best suit of free interactive spells the deck can ask for without disrupting the core of the combo. Again congrats Jundilion and best of luck with the deck in the future.


TheSeraphman

mono r eldrazi... now that's a name I haven't heard in years. Dredge on saga is just upsetting, like yeah I get it but I'm coming round on the idea that saga's a *little* warping