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Sunday Modern Challenge Results - Jul 4 2021

Sunday Modern Challenge Results - Jul 4 2021

troll_berserker

Who knew what would push Izzet Delver over the edge was cutting all the Delvers? Edit: just saw [Nikachu's new video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmIqWTMpRyQ), and he makes a good point. Originally Grixis Death's Shadow was playing Delvers too, but it only solidified as a meta defining deck after it dropped the Delvers. Delver just has a way of baiting people into making amazing decks around it, but never sticks around to enjoy the time in the limelight. And the only time Delver ever did, it was because of Treasure Cruise, which swiftly got the banhammer.


Weekly-Ad353

Everyone.


Turbocloud

This. Delver isn't new to the format and the weaknesses of the card are known. The lack of setup combined with a more board-focused format that has lots of answers for resolved threats results in Delver being less reliable on its own while being easier to answer since decks aren't pressured into counterspells by combo.


Jasmine1742

Delver needs daze and ponder to really gain steam. It's just too inconsistent in a format without legacy's more powerful denial tools and cantrips


Evershire

Sees play in legacy still


sameth1

Legacy is not modern.


heaveninherarms

"Sees play in legacy" is putting it mildly when Delver has been the best deck in legacy for 10 straight years and will stay that way for probably at least another 10 straight years


Rum114

delver wasn’t the best deck when miracles still had top, or when drs made everything into 5 colour pile


SlayerSlate

Grixis delver with drs was arguably the best deck when drs was legal.


Jasmine1742

4 color delver was arguably the best Drs pile.


shumpitostick

I think delver of secrets has just been the archetypal 1 drop creature for tempo decks. The strength of these decks, in all formats, has been the strength of the tempo shell and gameplan rather than the power of delver itself. Pauper has been cutting delvers from "delver" decks for a while now, and I wouldn't be surprised if legacy does the same.


Jasmine1742

I don't think legacy will see people cutting delvers altogether anytime soon but jeskai tempo is already a delverless tempo deck in the format. So you're not too far off the mark.


ghs145

Crusher is really active on the hammer discord and he’s been preaching this variation on the deck for a while now, props to him for taking number one!


EternalPhi

As someone who hasn't paid much attention to Hammer lists, what is specifically different about his list?


calmingRespirator

From what I’ve seen, he’s never played ~~Mother~~ Edit: Giver of Runes in the list, and he’s always had a bigger suite of equipment you can tutor for. In addition to 4 hammer and 1 shadowspear, he’s usually on 1 cranial plating, 1 swiftfoot boots, and 1-4 paradise mantle. In terms of more recent changes. Most other hammer pilots have cut Mishra’s Bauble entirely for 4 copies of Esper Sentinel. But that hasn’t happened here. And also most pilots are now only on 1-2 steelshapers gifts, with Urza’s saga taking up most of those slots. But crusher is still on the full 4 of both. Lastly in the sideboard Crusher has 3 on thin ice where most other pilots have path to exile or prismatic ending. And also 3 Defence Grid. Im pretty sure these changes all together make this version of hammer play even more like a consistent faster combo deck at the expense of the sort of creature centric backup plan most other pilots prefer. Other Hammertime pilots can jump in and tell me if I’m wrong on that conclusion though. I don’t really use discord, so this is just coming from my experience playing W/b hammer in paper and theorycrafting with other peoples lists I see.


ghs145

Yeah this is mostly what I’ve gathered, only thing I’d say is it’s Giver of runes and not Mom. His play patterns are a lot different from normal pilots I’d say though because of his toolbox of platings and swiftfoot boots.


d7h7n

He's the designated boomer of the hammer discord. He's been playing this same list for a few months now, hasn't changed anything.


moistpancake

Can do you mind throwing the discord link my way? Thanks!


concatenated_string

That can’t be entirely true - urza’s saga is in the list now.


d7h7n

Besides like Urza's Saga obviously.


Turbocloud

So the question is: Is he winning because or despite?


d7h7n

it's a list that works for the way he plays.


netsrak

Can I get a link to the discord?


yoitsyaboii

Seeing boomer Abzan in the top 8 warms my cold, dead heart :)


sameth1

Seeing just the word "Abzan" in that spot is such a simple joy. Just good old Abzan, midrange with a good balance of creatures and spells. Also, as a sidenote I really like the new formatting you are using for these. Much more readable in a chart.


kirdquake

Lingering souls and Liliana might be well positioned in a meta of spot removal and murktide regent


FergieMac

That makes me so happy - I’m gonna try it out and throw in siege rhino just like old times


ohunt3r

The table makes it so links to specific decks don’t work for me on the app :(


bamzing

Alright finally some formatting feedback. What app are you using?


ohunt3r

I am using Apollo, the old format worked perfectly fine, but there is some table funkyness in the app making it so links don’t open in the table, and that the table makes the deck placings appear to be a little more difficult to see. I wish the tables worked in this darn app, cuz from web browser they look nice


bamzing

Ah bummer... The feedback I've gotten on the tables have been overwhelmingly positive so I can't really go back to the old one without disappointing many more. I've tested it on the mobile web browser (Google Chrome for Android) instead of apps and it works perfectly fine there still. But yeah, looks like Apollo was unfortunate collateral. Sorry about that


DFGdanger

I like the table formatting, like having the placement numbers, and like having the player count there at the top! The only wonkiness I experienced so far was in the Sync app, yesterday there was a youtube link and it decided to try to put a big thumbnail inline with the table and it looked like there was a huge gap. Can't blame you for not wanting to work around every reddit app's table bugs though.


Sir_Useless

Works like a charm in Boost :)


ohunt3r

All good! I’ve seen it on other platforms and thought it looked great too :)


MykirEUW

You could use the Reddit app, or not?


TheParagonal

FWIW- Baconreader works fine on mobile for this. Thanks!


slipman_

That abzan list is.... quite a thing.


sangrelatto

Wonder if BR DRC was a flash in the pan? It seemed to burn bright for a short week or two and is fading away. Playing BR / Mardu Shadow as well and it's better at closing than the midrangey build, and less weak to GY hate.


bamzing

It can't beat UR Murktide, and that was the breakout deck of this week/weekend. It needs to figure out that matchup now


Ananeos

Do you have more info to support this? I play UR Murktide and it feels like the matchup has been 50/50, worse if they have repetitive graveyard hate.


d7h7n

modern has always been full of flash in the pan decks


Poohgas

BR just need to play more Terminates and less Fatal Pushes.


Roosterdude23

BR doesn't run Fatal Push


Poohgas

It does in the board


Jasmine1742

What's a sb list with push? I'm mostly aware of aspiringspike's stock list.


arrofil

The meta game, despite all the powerful stuff and some cards being super prevalent, is pretty diverse and most decks I can think of can definitely be answered by the meta game. Lots of different decks, and I’m sure we’ll see more BR Darcy soon enough honestly.


sameth1

The meta is pretty chaotic right now. Believe it or not, there is no need for a ban yet.


Ananeos

No UB/UR Asmo? BG is a different deck.


_Drumheller_

Either gets hated out by a lot of artifact hate in sideboards or it turned out to be not as good as expected.


traceur47

I believe it's the artifact hate. It is also pretty weak to removal. I've been playing it for close to a month, and the games I lose are when I can't stick a creature.


bluethedog

Or there weren’t many pilots in this tourney who thought it was the best option considering it’s results in recent challenges. It’s got a large target on its back.


jetsfan5301142

Anyone know UnsungZero? I would love to ask them a few questions about their Bant Stoneade version.


infinite_J

What’s up. It me.


jetsfan5301142

First off. You da best. Fantastic list. Well played. I dont want to bombard you with questions about the decisions that obviously worked for you. But was there anything you didn't like about your list? Also, counterspell is it too hard on the mana or poorly positioned in your opinion? Now on the other hand if you don't care I do have 100 questions about specific choices.


infinite_J

Everything is fine. The deck is plenty competitive. I lost my win and in a couple weeks ago. Then took a week off to play Niv. Then ran it back. The core of the deck is pretty set. I didn’t like brazen borrower much. Mana leak is meh but I can’t support counterspell and like the flexibility in a 2 drop. Could play more forces instead. Jace is usually really good when it’s good. Endurance is fantastic and I could see playing more. Solitude is obv good but best as just a 5 mana spell. Rarely pitched. The split on removal felt good. Kaldra def earns a spot. Sb is a mixed bag. Force of vigor is maybe better than natural state. Mirror is a nombo with pitch elementals. A second EE is not unreasonable. Sanctifier is insane rn.


jetsfan5301142

Perfect. You hit on a bunch of my major questions. And your logic is flawless, or at least it agrees with mind which is just as good ;-). Just a few others: Rate Spell Queller on a scale of 1-10. Add the 4th? Kaldra is your first search with SFM, last, or matchup specific? Sanctifier is insane because? Better than Rest in Peace?


infinite_J

SQ is a 3. It gets the job done vs amulet and living end and control. But it’s not good. It pitches to force and solitude! Kaldra is often what I want to get in that it stabilizes and clocks better than the other options. But you have to make a read. SoFaf is usually the first get vs amulet and control. Batterskull vs UR/BR. Kaldra vs rhinos and asmo. But there’s no rubric. It rots in hand a good bit more than I like but it wins a lot more games than it rots. And I’ve equipped it plenty. Sanctifier is def better than RIP. It does everything rip does vs dredge but can’t be removed. It’s a house BR. Deece vs UR. vs Living end you’d rather have RIP. But that’s about it. RIP is easier to cast and that is relevant as the manabase doesn’t easily hit WW turn2. I had one MD in my list but swapped it for the endurance, which is a house in similar matchups (better vs living end) and has flash so more synergistic.


infinite_J

I’ll add that I’d cut queller in a second but I haven’t figured out what for. I like the flash body and additional point of stack interaction.


jetsfan5301142

Thank you so very much. As someone who also 5-0'd with Bant Stoneblade recently, your success and list has been an inspiration moving forward. Best of luck to you.


Turn1_Ragequit

what the hell is this 5c Incarnations list? horde of notions in modern? how cool is that!!!


aaronconlin

I think it’s just there because it can be pitched to any of the evoke elementals. If you get it out it can also recur them I suppose


arrofil

It's basically this. If you do get to 5 mana, it's a great one to cast for sure.


Turn1_Ragequit

ah that‘s smart


Jasmine1742

I wonder if grief is worth the black but looks really fun


Lightupthenight

I just play tested it and the incarnations feel even stronger with risen reef. I was tapped out, but it felt like I was comboing with 3 risen reefs in play and evoking all these different elementals


troll_berserker

People were copy and pasting Kanister's 4c list, which had the major innovation of cutting Aether Vials for Ephemerates. But there just weren't enough playable Black elementals to enable Grief, even though Grief is by far the best of its cycle to Ephemerate, so it's just some bad luck with what the deck wanted to do vs how the colors worked out. Horde of Notions is pretty much a concession to that fact that there aren't enough decent black elementals, especially when black is the one color that 4c Omnath isn't. Once the 5c Omnath comes out, it is almost guaranteed to replace Horde of Notions, since Horde is really just not a good card. It's extremely hard to activate its ability since Cavern of Souls and Unclaimed Territory don't pay for abilities. The Horde's real purpose in the deck is just to pitch to everything, since \[\[Fusion Elemental\]\] is the only other rainbow elemental, and it's even worse.


MTGCardFetcher

[Fusion Elemental](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/5/5538bc51-e320-437e-867d-0d01621e31fb.jpg?1601080428) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fusion%20Elemental) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/451/fusion-elemental?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5538bc51-e320-437e-867d-0d01621e31fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


wrightj831

Is there an elementals discord?


BackwoodBand1t

Is there a reason why I never see mono-W taxes make these lists? It seemed like it was already a fairly decent deck before MH2 and had a few new toys get printed in that set like [[solitude]] and [[esper sentinel]]


kami_inu

Taxes and true control need to know what threats they're trying to stop. When it changes from saga constructs and amulet to BR DRC lists to murktide over roughly a week, you can't realistically build for that. Once the meta settles, control will come back and if taxes is viable it also will. (I don't say taxes with as much certainty because it hasn't always been playable)


MTGCardFetcher

[solitude](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/7/47a6234f-309f-4e03-9263-66da48b57153.jpg?1622388385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Solitude) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/32/solitude?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/47a6234f-309f-4e03-9263-66da48b57153?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [esper sentinel](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/3/f3537373-ef54-4578-9d05-6216420ee349.jpg?1622586634) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esper%20Sentinel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/12/esper-sentinel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f3537373-ef54-4578-9d05-6216420ee349?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


HosserPower

Taxes is best when 1. the meta is settled and 2. a lot of broken stuff is consistently happening across the board. It also thrives when combo decks are more common. I’m pretty confident Taxes will make a comeback - it did indeed get some pretty crazy new cards - but it’s never a safe pick when things are chaotic.


jared2294

I can’t click on any of the decklist with this new format (Apollo)


-deja-vu-

Why do you suppose the G/R version of scales is putting up more results than a G/W version playing Lurrus? Is the R ability on Zabaz just that good?


TimeWizardGreyFox

The Sac ability is a key part of the deck and is needed to kick things off in a lot of cases. Multiple sac outlets cleans up a lot of lines as well and makes them more manageable if you don't happen to have a ravager Some lists are also running \[\[goblin bombardment\]\] as a secondary sac outlet, essentially turns your hangarback walker into a worse ballista along with adding a bit of consistency.


MTGCardFetcher

[goblin bombardment](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/2/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e.jpg?1622395432) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=goblin%20bombardment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/279/goblin-bombardment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e262f55e-9239-4a97-a19e-9b08fb34502e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


TheThirdBlackGuy

As a fellow Mono G tron player, I'm always happy to see it and narca (/u/narca?) topping this list.


Peter_Storm

No Amulet in the last two, as always people need to chill with the ban hammers.


EternalPhi

Now we can start crying to Ban [Hammer](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=466977)! lol


Aunvilgod

Calling for bans on Amulet based on any of the last results is insanely dumb. If you want a rotating format go play Standard, people.


greatersteven

Or modern, since we now get a Horizons set to rotate the format every two years ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯


Aunvilgod

rip


Living_End

Congrats to Egormaister and TheBigMoke on their top finishes with Living End. Both on grief variants of the deck is very different than yesterday. Also again 3 mb subtility each is great. It shows how important early creature interaction and removal is in current modern. Again congrats to both players, and i know the Living End community wishes you both all the best luck in the future.


SpideyStrawhat

Fun and diverse format. I'm happy with where we are now. New cards turning into staples is not a bad thing as long as they are not opressive.


CangaWad

Ok so like what is a mono red prowess deck running Chalice in the SB for? https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2021-07-05?xd28#gazmon_th_place


Jybrid

Cascade decks.


rand0mtaskk

What’s up with the dragon in that esper list. Edit: holy shit the hive mind is in full force. Y’all can downvote my comments below all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that I’d prefer colonnade over that dragon in nearly every situation.


Bitterblossom_

I think WaToO is Guillame Wafo-Tapa and he’s known for playing draw-go control with some inventive cards usually.


Reply_or_Not

It fixes color/gets you mana for the late game at instant speed, then after you stabilize it is a 4/4 flier that can finish the game


rand0mtaskk

That just seems worse than running colonnade honestly.


Reply_or_Not

It takes about the same mana investment to attack with colonnade once as it does to grab a land and cast this from the GY, except you get to attack with the dragon multiple times if it lives, and the mana cost is broken up into two parts. Also if you draw this late you can just cast it for 5 and then bring it back if they destroy it.


rand0mtaskk

Still sounds worse than colonnade. I’d rather just play a tap land that can be a 4/4 whenever I want it. It already does the fixing for you and is harder to remove.


[deleted]

[удалено]


rand0mtaskk

No, not really and especially not if your plan is the plainscycle and then bring it back as a 4/4.


sameth1

Well the person who doesn't think it is worse than colonnade made top 32.


rand0mtaskk

Lmao. Okay mate.


slipman_

why not both? xd


rand0mtaskk

Just run a 2nd colonnade? 🤷🏻‍♂️


slipman_

im actually on UW, running 2 colonades, 1 dragon and 4 snaps, xD if i want to put more colonnades in, i will just cut lands lol... the dragon stays anyways.


rand0mtaskk

You do you. I wouldn't be running the dragon in my decks. Would rather it just be a different card. Another Teferi for instance? I refuse to believe that dragon is the best card to play in that spot.


slipman_

well i aggre with you, its not that great, its nice, its like a shark typhon that has some aplications. The other thing that i want to try off as a 1off, its the demmilich of the upcoming set.


Jasmine1742

It's a land that's a threat but you don't have to keep sinking Mana into it unlike manlands. It's really solid at giving you consistency and a threat.


Aughabar

I think your being downvoted for being a snarky asshole mate, not for the hive mind


rand0mtaskk

Not really sure where exactly you see snark. But okay?


Mattunderice

BR Darcy is already outclassed by the Murktide Regent decks. Don't buy into that deck unless you already own all the BGx staples and have the ability to switch back to a Jund build


Jasmine1742

I think a shift in removal suite might save it but yeah murktide is a beating. Deck really wants 1 Mana destroy target creature printed.


Zaiteria

Eldrazi Tron fallen off a cliff...we'll be back...soon...I hope.


VoidZero52

I mean it looks like chalice on 1 should be amazing, right?


Brickhouzzzze

Maybe we need to give the noodle-y bois a rest and find a better shell for chalice.


VoidZero52

I mean, fish plus chalice is amazing still, and spooks with chalice in the side has been quite decent as of late.


Brickhouzzzze

I'd probably rather play either of those decks than Eldrazi, yea. (sadly)


Grarr_Dexx

Everyone and their mother is playing wear//tear, crime//punishment, abrade and other hate cards in the sideboards to keep urza's saga down.


VoidZero52

That’ll do it.


ryscott85

..honestly having it on zero is nearly as important right now!


Reply_or_Not

I think the main reason is that eldrazi creatures are not as big compared to the rest of the format like they used to be.


Zaiteria

That's true. Don't get to Smash many Realities when facing off against anything holding a Batterskull, or a rediculously massive Murktide. I don't think Eldrazi is *too* bad of a choice currently, but I think once the meta settles, people will return to it. Just a lot of fancy new decks people want to try and see how it does.


TemurTron

Another tournament comes and goes and this sub continues to look all the more ridiculous for the BAN SAGA panic frenzy during Week 0.


[deleted]

Can’t be worse than the Legacy community trying to ban Daze before MH2 had even released in paper 😓


Jasmine1742

Tbf the ban daze sentiments came from delver being the best or second best deck in the format for basically since it's namesake card's printing.


bamzing

Weird timing for a remark like that, the finals is literally Saga vs Saga


TemurTron

Yeah but it’s two decks highly built around the card, and the rest of the field was very low on Saga (5/30 of the remaining decks). Also, the meta around the card seems very healthy with a good variation of archetypes, without any real signs of the meta being warped around it. It furthers that Saga is a unique and powerful card in synergy-based artifact decks, while not being this end all format warping “goes in every deck and kills all interaction” menace this sub was painting it as.


TimeWizardGreyFox

Scales isn't heavily built around saga. It certainly helps the deck run more consistently, but you also can't play it turn 1 and it's awkward at times when you lose the mana you need to make a 2/2 balista or walker. It's nice being able to grab a few key cards but they all aren't super impactful on their own and need a board presence to make use of it.


bamzing

Honestly, one could argue that the format is warped at the moment, just not by 1 deck or 1 card. But rather, a select few that are so strong that they go in multiple places, and it's hard to not play either. **https://twitter.com/PTarts2win/status/1412077962229284877** It's a joke tweet but it's really not that far off. The comments complaining about Saga + Darcy/Ragavan overall representation have some merit. FWIW I am enjoying Modern right now as I usually do, and that sort of metagame is fun to me. But that's because I always play the top of the food chain.


TemurTron

Agreed, there is definitely a concentration of high powered MH2 cards that are driving most of the top decks right now. But all of the cards (Saga, Ragavan, Darcy, Murktide, and Shardless) are all REALLY fun and have empowered a lot of new strategies. I think things will balance out a bit once people get used to playing with and against the new cards. But even if it doesn’t, the cards are cool and the gameplay has been really fun across a lot of different decks.


bamzing

Yeah I love the new cards, MH2 is now my favorite set of all time. I'm alright with playing it some more before asking for adjustments. It's only Magic that can make me fall in love again and again


slipman_

i really love the rest of the set, specially the live that was given to affinty, hardened, reanimator, enchantress, merkfolk... ect ect (probably im forgeting something) (oh counterspell!) its just as you said, probably there will be some adjustments needed in the near future. one could thing that they should be able to foresee that before printing the cards with the amount of testing that they did, but well, error its human i guess.


Velfurion

My understanding is they only test the new cards for standard. Modern, pioneer, etc aren't tested, but they are considered when they're testing.


PacmanZ3ro

MH2 was specifically tested for modern. The real issue is that it was tested in a modern format that had Uro, field, mana monkey, and sanctuary in it.


Velfurion

True, I rescind my comment to be the new sets are mostly specifically tested with standard, unless they are specifically aimed at another format such as modern or commander. And yeah, it's always interesting to me when they test a format with certain cards that are then banned before the set releases. Like, they tested uro in a format with Oko in standard, as well as once upon a time and field of the dead and thought it was perfectly fine for standard. Blows my mind they thought that deck would have been fine. Or testing the old companion rule without the standard bans having happened yet. I can't believe they thought all of this was not going to be a problem in older formats.


quistissquall

i love the new cards. the problem is in obtaining them as they are quite expensive and you need 4-ofs.


slipman_

what people seem not to understand, its that is not only a matter of How many copies are played on the top 8, but WHATS THE WINRATE, of decks playing those cards. if you only have 2 saga decks, but are on the top always, its enought to become warping at some moment. Field of the dead was played in only 2 archetipes, amulet and uro decks, but it was obnoxius enought to make its prese cense be felt in the whole format. Not saying saga needs a ban right now, but dont be surprised if everything collapses on saga vs darcy/ragavan in a couple of weeks. those cards are super powerfull. really power creeping everything else.


DFGdanger

7/32 = 21.875% That's not exactly small either.


FlyingTomatoOfOld

Considering those are the only two saga decks in the top 8...


jared2294

Considering those are 25% of the top 8 and the best decks in the top 8? Weird point


turnerz

This meta game looks slightly better than previous challenges, though still so much ragavan and saga. Always interesting the amount of variation in results across different days


sameth1

By now Saga has fallen into a decent spot andI don't see how it can be seen as a problem card. A few decks use it and it is strong, but if that were the criteria for a ban then there would be no legal cards.


turnerz

Ragavan is a problem though. Goes in too many archetypes for me


sameth1

Ragavan isn't even the most problematic red 1 drop creature right now.


turnerz

I'm not sure about that. I dislike ragavan more because it goes across more archetypes. A freaking grixis control list is playing 3 just because the card is so generically good. At least DRC is an aggressive card. But yea, they're both getting a bit problematic, especially with each other.


The_Bird_Wizard

At least DRC requires you to build your deck in a way that delirium is actually consistent. Ragavan just goes into anything with red, even control decks apparently


Aunvilgod

12 baubles in top 8


spoonymangos

That’s not that many lol


Aunvilgod

*exactly*


HS_Falathar

Urza‘s Saga is a very fair magic card. Just try to ignore it aka be faster or play enough hate cards.


aggr1103

Isn’t that the strategy for magic in general?


vojdek

Now I’m curious what do you deem unfair?


Cackfiend

cant be countered, cant be discarded, fetches for any 1 mana artifact in your deck... yup VERY fair


troll_berserker

Just \[\[Booster Tutor\]\] Tempest for Wastelands.


MTGCardFetcher

[Booster Tutor](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/a/0a5718db-e67d-468a-95ba-11a08fcf9fea.jpg?1594065403) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Booster%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/und/33/booster-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a5718db-e67d-468a-95ba-11a08fcf9fea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Zenith2017

Extremely relevant flavor text haha


TheRecovery

It technically isn’t really “unfair” in the colloquial sense. But it’s a hard card to evaluate in that binary space anyway.


Mastagamer564

How does one join these tournaments?


butterynuggs

You just sign up on mtgo. You'll likely need to also join a rental service of you don't plan to buy all the cards online (decks are usually slightly cheaper than on paper, but not by much these days) - personally I use ManaTrades, but I believe CardHoarder is also popular. That's about it. Once you rent the cards once, it takes away any mystery and I think there is even a YouTube video out there showing you what to do. Mtgo is pretty easy to learn, as well.


s1m0n_mtg

I love that Abzan deck


TheRecovery

Still surprised Prowess hasn’t picked up monkey yet. The list is tight, so I get it, but seems like such a good fit. Maybe the 1 drop slot is just so packed? Or is it the fact that it doesn’t grow/have evasion? This Challenge looking like some good ol’ DRC pile decks. With a little bit of aggro/combo sprinkled in there.


facep0lluti0n

I think the doesn't grow or have evasion factor is the biggest issue. Prowess is looking for quicker kills than Ragavan can enable. DRC, on the other hand, works really well, because it checks both of those boxes. An evasive 3/3 for R that both enables cantrip strategies and is a payoff for them is exactly what UR aggro wants to see.


sameth1

Monkey isn't aggressive enough for prowess. Too often it just doesn't do enough damage, and while the extra mana from treasures is good it's not good enough to find a place in a true aggro deck.


arrofil

It doesn’t have evasion, it’s basically always a 2/1, it doesn’t grow. Treasures and stuff are nice, but the monkey just doesn’t work for the list. Most of the decks it’s good in, it plays a powerful support card to tempo / midrangey grind strategies.


Cackfiend

no lurrus = no monkey


GaulixIP2X

I think ragavan will take a ban. It’s a 4 off despite the legendary. Card advantage and mana source for only one red !


TimeWizardGreyFox

Zabaz is a 4 of despite legendary and enables a lot of hardened scales payoffs so I don't think thats the right route to take. Ragavan needs to swing and deal combat damage in order to be enabled so there is more investment than just having him stick. There's still plenty of removal in the format and the monkey just has a big ole target on it's back. Like many cards, it needs to be answered or things can get out of hand. That being said, Ragavan is a very pushed 1 drop that still has late game potential stealing your opponents cards and giving mana to actually cast them. Whether that merits a ban will remain to be seen but I don't think so just yet. I'd much rather see some unbans in other colors that are on par power wise to really fuck with the meta because I hate myself.


greatersteven

Twice in the last week I've had my own Vindicate cast on my only land on my opponent's on-the-play T2 because I didn't have one of my 5 one mana answers to Ragavan. I'm pretty over it to be honest.


TimeWizardGreyFox

that kinda sounds hilarious to be honest. F for respects.


pgnecro

8 are somewhat mandatory. With 5 one mana answeres you have (from the top of my head) less than 50% to have at least one in your opening seven.


greatersteven

I think you're missing the point. There should be no one drop that MUST be answered the turn it comes down or you lose the game. In both cases the Ragavan hitting ended the game. Even Goblin Guide is jealous of what happened here.


pgnecro

For a wide range of decks Ragavan is not even a must answer. If you are going to play a fair deck it is. This is even more true if you are playing a fair, *black* deck.


sameth1

Ragavan isn't even the best red 1 drop in decks that play it.