T O P

MH2 - Faithless Salvaging

MH2 - Faithless Salvaging

AcademyRuins

There is zero chance this card wasn't a sorcery and just a single R at some point in design.


Fearyn

Which would have been... Fine?


AcademyRuins

I mean, this would let you T2 get back one or two Phoenix without even needing a free spell. Not to mention discard then draw is better in Dredge and allows you to go up on cards when hellbent.


CrazyMike366

A Phoenix on the second turn isn't really absurd at all. That's just more work than a Delver or Wild Nacatl...both cards that see only minor play recently


Maltayz

Okay but like 2 phoenixes with haste swinging on turn 2 is a lot more than delver or wild nacatl. Those cards also don't have the potential to come back over and over


CrazyMike366

A 4-turn clock that requires very specifically 2 lands, a Scavenging, 2 phoenixes, and at least 2 one or zero mana instants or sorceries - or 7/10 of the first cards you see in that hypothetical sequence of play - is seems like it's on-par or even below average for Modern. This at 2-mana exacerbates that.


ominousmilk

Dude you are arguing phoenix the deck that tier one the top deck for a while isnt good. Its good because you have literally out valued your opponent while get two 3/2 attackers by being down only one card.


CrazyMike366

And phoenix hasn't been viable since Faithless Looting was banned. The deck does not present a sufficient clock in Modern if it's relying on two-mana enablers...like Faithless Salvaging.


stillenacht

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the hypothetical 1 mana version the comment he was responding to was talking about


bowski44

Thought the exact same thing when I saw this card


wizards_fix_pls

The question is “how much was wizards willing to hinge on faithless looting being ok if theres no flashbacks?” And clearly they were scared lmao


Wiseon321

I highly and highly doubt this was ever a 1 cmc card. They know exactly what would be too much, and they are now avoiding 1 cmc costed discard, draw cards. Rebound makes it a good turn 2 play, but if you are comparing any new card that comes out to faithless looting and if it doesn't touch faithless looting on both effect and potency then you will have a terrible time. Faithless looting was just such a good filter card with flashback that anything else will look like a joke.


Living_End

This card is bad imo. It’s 2 mana and worse than thrill of possibility most of the time.


APe28Comococo

I think it’s pretty decent. You get 2 cast triggers and one of them is free. Plus the discard is first and not part of the cost like in thrill so countermagic isn’t a super blowout. I wager dredge and Phoenix will both play this.


Kilowog42

Really? I think this is more a Prowess or Storm (or Madness if that becomes a deck) card than Dredge.


troll_berserker

Dredge has no reason to play this over Reunion or Thrilling Discovery.


Wiseon321

i'll tell this to anyone that says this: The biggest difference is if you keep a risky life from the loam+thrilling discovery hand and when you do dredge on turn 2 you whiff off of the dredge three and get forced to double draw off the top. While this card lets you do it during your oponents end phase, whiff, dredge 3 again during your upkeep, find a bigger dredger for your draw. I know the example is pretty much a specific example, but It has happened a lot.


SkredBoi420

The discard cost is considered a strength of Cathartic. Dredge might be interested if it was 1cc, but it doesn’t do enough for 2cc.


horsehome

Neither deck will touch this unplayable trash


ncarlo

I think that since the Rebound counts as a cast trigger for an arclight phoenix next turn, it isn’t a bad place to be. The card itself is meh but that could be enough for it to be a role player.


Mzzkc

Also counts for Thing. This line seems strong: Turn 2 thing. Turn 3 cantrip and hold up 2 mana for this or protection. Turn 4 flip thing and get back a Phoenix or two, swing for a lot. Gets even better with swiftspear


Alpacaduck

I will always be convinced that the original name of this card was "Faithless Fuck You" edited to be PG13. Because that's what it is to Looting Modern players.


JTheGameGuy

One mana too expensive most likely


_Hollow_1_

They’re just trolling us at this point


dxdydzd1

This is underpowered, but I can see why they made it. If you want to cast a madness spell, you need enough mana for both the discard that enables it and the madness cost. So if you have only 2 mana, you can't play both a 2 mana discard spell and a card with a 2 mana madness cost in one turn. This card enables that by setting up a discard on the next turn, after you've untapped (but before you get to play a land). Kind of like \[\[Rakdos Headliner\]\] in that sense. Is it good in Modern? Probably not. We have, or are going to get, enough discard outlets that you can play one turn, then activate to discard a madness spell another: \[\[The Underworld Cookbook\]\], \[\[Lotleth Troll\]\], \[\[Zombie Infestation\]\], etc.


MTGCardFetcher

##### ###### #### [Rakdos Headliner](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/a/aad6576b-605c-4007-a2a7-0d7550520d6d.jpg?1622485509) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rakdos%20Headliner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/210/rakdos-headliner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aad6576b-605c-4007-a2a7-0d7550520d6d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The Underworld Cookbook](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/3/039d62b0-3309-4424-a2ea-5a0d88d4bd72.jpg?1622055445) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Underworld%20Cookbook) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/240/the-underworld-cookbook?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/039d62b0-3309-4424-a2ea-5a0d88d4bd72?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lotleth Troll](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/9/7/97971c5a-98f5-4165-a1b8-a77129e502df.jpg?1592673406) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotleth%20Troll) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/183/lotleth-troll?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97971c5a-98f5-4165-a1b8-a77129e502df?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Zombie Infestation](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/c/9/c9ce5007-56ab-4361-8130-df48add1492b.jpg?1600701772) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zombie%20Infestation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/288/zombie-infestation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9ce5007-56ab-4361-8130-df48add1492b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


openingsalvo

Lotleth troll...now that’s not a name I’ve heard in a long time


kewlkid77

I miss faithless :(


AtrociKitty

Seems awful, RIP Phoenix.


Vexxdi

other then being mono red, how is this better then [[Izzet Charm]]? I mean two prowess triggers over 2 turns is *cute* and prolly would have been playable as the mentioned R Sorcery speed, bit this is prolly 2 mana too expensive...


MTGCardFetcher

[Izzet Charm](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/4/d/4d8f0789-aa08-4ce5-8ed1-6544de1e3ed4.jpg?1599708066) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Izzet%20Charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/202/izzet-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d8f0789-aa08-4ce5-8ed1-6544de1e3ed4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Skank7

I imagine rebound will help with making UR Phoenix playable again, just a turn slower. Or is a turn slower unplayable?


Phelps-san

You can't really spend T2 playing this instead of Thing/Stormwing in a UR Phoenix shell.


bowski44

Would have preferred R at sorcery speed. There’s so many options for this effect at 2 mana.


UomoStellato96

Making fun of a big part of your modern player base is not funny :(


Vexxdi

*"All that's left are broken beliefs"* Fuckballs , they ARE trolling us....


Vaitka

This card almost feels Vindictive, as if WOTC is deliberately mocking the decks affected by the Looting ban. Like, it's a worse rate than Cathartic Reunion, so it is already below rate for Modern. It costs 2 mana, so it doesn't fill any role that Looting did in terms of T1 set up, but then also looses flashback as well? *and* is cut down to only 1 card per turn? And discards before drawing? Oh but don't worry, you get *rebound*? Like, if the original design was {R} this with rebound, and that's too powerful, just Axe the card altogether, or at least change the name. **At this point the card seems like an uncomfortable metaphor for WOTCs interactions with the Modern format, right down to the name.**


rogomatic

I mean... this is worse than Looting and it isn't close. What we needed was a \[\[Careful Study\]\] reprint, not this garbage.


MTGCardFetcher

[Careful Study](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/e/dea15b53-2940-40e7-8d48-8ec11341da83.jpg?1562936545) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Careful%20Study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/70/careful-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dea15b53-2940-40e7-8d48-8ec11341da83?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


DiukWolpe

My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. I think printing of \[\[careful study\]\] and a ban of \[\[cripping chill\]\] would open the format for graveyard centric decks, without the risk of them being broken. It's sad, but that's what we got.


giggity_giggity

Cripping chill being the gang variant of creeping chill ;)


MTGCardFetcher

[careful study](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/e/dea15b53-2940-40e7-8d48-8ec11341da83.jpg?1562936545) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=careful%20study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/70/careful-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dea15b53-2940-40e7-8d48-8ec11341da83?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [cripping chill](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/3/53f73e5f-6228-494f-b74e-aca3520dc2b2.jpg?1593813015) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crippling%20Chill) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/34/crippling-chill?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/53f73e5f-6228-494f-b74e-aca3520dc2b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Exenikus

Is that supposed to be [[Creeping Chill]]?


CrazyMike366

I want Creeping Chili in the next Unset.


MTGCardFetcher

[Creeping Chill](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/f/5/f5456173-7a08-4b5c-8450-7123375f4a86.jpg?1572892924) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Creeping%20Chill) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/grn/66/creeping-chill?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5456173-7a08-4b5c-8450-7123375f4a86?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


imwalkinhereguy

This is just bad. Drawing after discard is OK, means you can draw on an empty hand. But it was the draw BEFORE discard that made FL as good as it was. This is nowhere near playable in Modern IMO.


Nerezzar

>But it was the draw BEFORE discard that made FL as good as it was. Haha, lol, no. It was used as it was because it was a looting spell and it was good at it. However, a spell with R: draw 2 (when empty handed) Flashback 2R would have been stupidly overpowered.


imwalkinhereguy

I'm on Grishoalbrand. T1 FL, draw GB and another card, I can discard GB and set myself up for combo next turn. I'm on Phoenix. T2 I can Manamorphose, Thought Scour, then FL to potentially draw and discard birds. In both scenarios, drawing first gives you more card info and a higher chance of getting the desired cards into the yard. Discard first means I have to already have the payoff in my hand for the card to serve its purpose. The only situation I can think of where discard first is better is dredge to both discard and trigger dredge at the same time.


pkfighter343

An aggro deck where you’re empty handed, and the alternate looting reads r: draw 2, 2r: draw 2


imwalkinhereguy

Am I missing something? How is it Draw 2 both times when you only draw 1 card?


pkfighter343

You guys were talking about a version of looting that was functionally the same except it said discard 2, draw 2 instead of draw 2, discard 2


openingsalvo

...that’s what looting is. Drawing then discarding. Alternatively discarding then drawing is known as rummaging


Nerezzar

Yes? The discussion is about "what if" because the card in the spoiler is a rummage. The person I responded to said, Faithless looting was good because it was looting and not rummage. I responded that it would have been A LOT stronger if it rummaged instead. Mostly because the flashback would be divination.


openingsalvo

I guess whether or not it would have been stronger depends on the context. In dredge most definitely but there are many decks that the draw then discard is an important part of why it was used


Nerezzar

Yes but I'd argue it would have been used in a lot more decks if it was the other way round.


openingsalvo

Agree to disagree I guess. I thing we can both agree this no where near a replacement though haha


zdngma0

could this not have been 1 mana wtf wizards


APe28Comococo

Turn 1 discard [[Stinkweed Imp]], dredge 5 lol. Turn 2 dredge/draw step, discard Stinky dredge 5. Yeah 1 mana is busted Edit fixed my sloppy phone typing.


swordkillr13

When did stinky get errata'd? Dredge 6 on something other than grave troll is news to me


APe28Comococo

Lol just typing sloppy on the phone.


swordkillr13

Understandable, have a nice day


MTGCardFetcher

[Stinkweed Imp](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/a/2ab08d69-210b-4b06-88a2-45281a1a4e1e.jpg?1561771088) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stinkweed%20Imp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dvd/36/stinkweed-imp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ab08d69-210b-4b06-88a2-45281a1a4e1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Technotwin87

We need to unban Faithless looking. This card is heinous.


Gynocentrism_Can_SMD

>the art makes it very obvious The name: "am I a joke to you?"


LostJC

Even the flavor text is calling us out...


mistico-s

Seems fucking awful. The only decent part is the instant but still the only deck that wants it has better things to do on turn 2


taw

This is terrible. For 1R you want a lot more than this.


das_ned

Oh this is absolutely a replacement for faithless looting. This seems to be a trend for the Modern Horizons sets. Marit Lage's Slumber being a replacement for Dark Depths is another good example.


HuntedHorror

Its like Faithless Looting, but without a dick.


nutzbox

NOOOO!!! earlier it was BfB wanna be now it’s looting, they’re just adding insult to injury.


softboiledeggs2

does faithless salvaging remain in exile after rebound?


Apocrypha

No, rebound cards will go to GY after being cast the second time.


softboiledeggs2

ty!


APe28Comococo

Only if you choose not to cast it on the rebound trigger.


Phyrexian-Drip

I prefer [[chart a course]].


MTGCardFetcher

[chart a course](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/1/a/1a6f256b-943e-4cfb-9fc9-d1ded68b5f97.jpg?1600713688) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chart%20a%20course) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/142/chart-a-course?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a6f256b-943e-4cfb-9fc9-d1ded68b5f97?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


ThunderFistChad

For which deck? And why not both?


Phyrexian-Drip

If I was going to run 2 effects like this at 2cmc I’d run izzet charm. And any deck that wants to put a card into gy.


jhg218

Mardu pyromancer deck were experimenting with Ransack the Lab before albeit with little success. This card is maybe worth trying in the deck due to being an instant and rebound for triggers of Young Pyromancer/Sedgemoor Witch for value. Being unable to draw first and discard later is a biggest drawback, thus it is incomparable to Faithless Looting. Besides, it is difficult to setup for Bedlam Reveler due to the Rebound ability.