Not discounting anything… but there’s a reason why voice recordings are admissible in courts around the world, and screenshots aren’t in many. One is easy to fake (not that partey’s are) the other not so much.
They're both admissible forms of evidence everywhere, but are strongly challenged and limited, video too. Hearsay rules come into play, as do issues around the creation and collection of that media and their evidentiary support. In this MG case that audio becomes procedurally useless in prosecution if the young woman involved is no longer willing to testify to support it.
This is it, I know Mason is guilty we all heard how he spoke to her. Nobody saw what he did just heard voices but regardless it was wrong. Having said that Partey is playing and everybody KNOWS he is considerably worse. I don't think he'll play for united again, the brand is too big and it would be too damaging but I think he'll go somewhere else and play
No, sorry, drinking and driving twice the speeding limit is not a mistake. A mistake is when you swerve the wrong way or something.
He was actually being tried for manslaughter
The idea that Mendy is innocent is far more spurious than the idea that 7 different women, including one who is under the age of 18, are all making up accusations against him for some sort of personal gain (or for any reason, frankly). Doesn't take a genius to work that out, even if you're not aware of how rare a conviction is for rape and sexual assault in the UK. Not getting a conviction does not make someone innocent, especially when there is evidence (as with Greenwood) or multiple victims who have been brave enough to come forward (as with Mendy). Also 2 of the cases against him are going to retrial, so he may yet be convicted of his crimes.
Very weird situation. Supposedly they’re back together? And the victims father is cool with him again?? Also, I think Greenwood could sue Utd for “unlawful termination”.
I don’t want this to ruin the synergy we/EtH created. So no, he needs to stay away.
Yeah I don't rate the father at all. Initially I thought he could be just trying to protect her by aiming to divert attention from her by arguing it's been misunderstood but a lot of what he has said about Mason is does seem like he's supporting him.
My notion is that after United conducts their own investigation on greenwood, he might be told that he is not a part of their plans for now. However, they will give him an option to go on loan in 2nd division and to find his form back. The loan tenure surely will be long enough for everyone to forget him as a player. Diplomatically, united didn’t drove him out but didn’t put him as a priority either. So that they can never be accused of putting a career on jeopardy regardless of him being proven innocent ( in the eyes of law)
The way the law works, you are innocent until proven guilty. Imagine if it was the other way around and you would have had to prove your innocence.. yikes
Just because the woman who was raped doesn’t want to press charges, doesn’t mean she wasn’t the victim of domestic violence and rape. Greenwood is a rapist.
And visa versa. Unless you was there, you are just speculating. Did the woman directly tell you what happened ?
Additionally you do realize that they are back together right? So maybe your story is twisted? 🤷🏼♂️
i personally think he did it but ive seen audio clips fakes, the technology that we have now is scary realistic. There are other things that happened which is them getting back together and it not being her that leaked them. The evidence was definitely tampered with as it was originally a 10 minute + clip. As much as i do think he is a rapist. part of me believes he is actually innocent and tbh i want to believe that as he is only young
Yea, she also has pictures. And no, just because they didn’t go to court doesn’t mean he’s guilty. It was all up for the girl to decide. She was probably paid out in a normal case. Now, shit got complicated when the father defended greenwood and the chick came back to the relationship which confuses fans even more and swaying fans towards greenwood. I believe in second chances, but not as a united player but as a footballer, he can piss off, not everyone gets second chances at this club
you are \*presumed\* innocent until proven guilty. That is not the same thing as actually being innocent and definitely not the same thing as being proved innocent.
Ok but since everyone here is nit-picky. One is not proven innocent but one is proven guilty or not guilty/ acquitted.
“Note that an acquittal does necessarily not mean that the defendant is innocent in a criminal case. Rather, it means that the prosecutor failed to prove that the defendant was guilty “beyond a reasonable doubt.””
Let me make my stance clear. I don’t want him anywhere near the club, I don’t think he is a good person, just clarifying that he is legally NOT guilty of any crime.
I think people should be afforded to learn and grow and make amends. I’m indifferent on him coming back or staying away. I think he will not play for Man Utd again and would support that decision, but I would support him and the club if he did return.
The court of public opinion shouldn’t be involved - the case is dropped, they’re back together I believe, they must be working through those things together and hopefully he’s learning to improve as a human being. 21 years old and people think he should be shamed for the rest of his life? I guess I believe in rehabilitation and forgiveness rather than a life sentence and if he works to improve himself and the others around him then I have no issue with him coming back.
I guess it’s the question of if you abuse once, are you forever someone who will abuse people? Or can you learn and develop to become a better, kinder person? Most comments I see write him off now as forever a scumbag.
If he comes back, which wouldn’t be immediate anyway given registration rules, time out, match fitness etc. then great so long as he gets his head down and over time this will pass. If the club release him/sell him due to sponsors/fan pressure then I’ll respect and support that too. I think he’ll end up going abroad and play his football still. I just hope he gets the help he needs and can learn from this and become a better person.
Fucking bingo, nail on the head mate. Court of public opinion has already decided but shouldnt, as people we do not know everything about the situation, we only know what had been presented to us, that the charges have been dropped, a key witness has withdrawn and other evidence has arisen, along with the audio and images that were releaed by harriet that started this.
I agree with your point that people deserve the chance to learn and grow from their mistakes, the question comes whether the club decides he does that here, or he is too much of a risk, ultimately impossible to please everyone with this.
Myself i back what the club decides. They will have more information and a deeper investigation than we could get viewing news articles and speculating, the internet is an echo chamber of opinions and that wont change, if the club decides to keep him i will listen and respect that decision because in this case, they know what is best, same goes for selling him.
Love this. Thank you for sharing.
I hope he gets the chance to get his life back together. I hope he focuses on football and surrounds himself with the right people. Go away, stay in a training camp type of environment and focus on being a professional football player. This could go either way - the frustration and the hatred he may receive could drive him further out into madness. He is a young man and I hope he has the right people around him.
Finally, beautifully put.
Adding to this, here is my take on the mental state of Greenwood.
He came as a young promising player and lit up the team. He was 19 and a year later was a regular starter in a team that was horrible, criticised, players highlighted and rebuked. For a 20 year old it might have been too much to take. Look at Rashford face, Wan Bissaka seems to be getting back, Sancho just returned from a long break, Lingard just admitted to have had depression, news from other sources confirm on the toxic environment everywhere around the Old Trafford. Unfortunately Greenwood's way was just unacceptable.
But i believe, as above, he is young, compared to other older, matured players that have been accused, and can change if willing to, and I also believe ETH is best for him to give him a direction and change him like he has done with others.
This is probably the most level headed answer I've seen regarding this situation. Most people would just either wrote him off or fully forgive him like it never happened
To be clear I believe in rehabilitation and forgiveness as well, and I haven’t decided how I’d like to see this end.
However, my only issue with your statement is that the entire business on MUFC is in fact the court of public opinion. You can say it’s to win titles but in reality, titles don’t mean anything other than “we’re good at this thing we all collectively ascribe value to, so maybe you should like us as a club.” That’s the nature of sport.
If Greenwood was an architect and he could go back to his job that doesn’t have to deal with the public’s opinion of him, that’s different than him being a part of any club that’s trying to impress their fans to get us to continue spending money on the sport.
Exactly my sentiment on this case. Regardless in United or other clubs, this boy should be given a chance to amend. He could be drunk or trick into doing that or genuine abuser or simply stupid punk.. who knows as we were not there.
Can I ask why you think putting his head down and training really hard would be making amend? The making amend should be a person who we have strong proof of being guilty of what he’s accused of going to jail.
This is the most sensible take I’ve seen so far. I’m very angry he avoided punishment, but if he is genuinely going to get rehabilitation and help to become a better person, then that’s the best course of action. It’s better than him being locked into that abusive mindset and risking him doing it to someone else in the future. I still don’t want him anywhere near the club, though.
If you’ve listened to the clips and seen the photos you know he’s a little scumbag. Sadly a bigger than I’d like to admit chunk of our fans so desperate for success they’d sell their morals to get it.
If I hadn’t heard the audio or seen the pics, I’d be willing to give him a second chance, but after that stuff came out, I couldn’t support him at our club anymore.
Yeah the amount of people I’ve seen saying he should be back even if he did is crazy, one thing I’ve noticed is they are mostly all from the same place which is odd
Yeah. Giving Greeny a second chance is like giving Donald Trump one. What would it accomplish? Nothing! That kind of people would just be even worse off after getting next chances.
Considering there’s a huge portion of this fanbase that want state ownership so we can spend like Chelsea just did, it doesn’t surprise me there’s a big chunk of this fanbase that wants a guy who beat up and raped a woman, regardless of charges dropped (as they’re back together), back
Most footie fans would happily have Kevin Spacy as their CF if he was as good as Lewadowski…
Grim, I love the sport, but Footie fans are the worst part about it
Being a scummy person isn’t a good enough reason to destroy his life or take away his livelihood, no one is selling their morals for success they’re just saying to move on as he wasn’t found guilty. You don’t have to like him, but you’re choosing to follow him and to give him attention when you don’t have to all because you want everyone that is involved with something you support to fit the ideology of what you find acceptable in a person in that position. Nobody is perfect, and in this case he is far from perfect, but he’s still a human being whether you like it or not and he is not guilty of a crime like it or not. If he is as bad of a person that everyone believes he is he will eventually get what’s coming to him one way or another, but it’s his own actions that should condemn him and not a rabid fan base that are not privy to 100% of the facts about what truly happened.
Why should you get to dictate it just so you can find everyone that plays for the team you support to fit the ideology of someone that’s worth the title of a player for that team? You don’t have to like him or support him, but his livelihood is none of your business.
If sponsors pull out he won’t play. If they don’t care he might be sent on loan for the rest of the season to get the heat off him before he returns.
I think the odds of him getting a mutually terminated contract are high, with him being picked up by a foreign league - likely the Middle East. I don’t see anyone in Europe wanting to play him this season.
No sponsor has pulled out of arsenal over partey have they? And there’s pretty damning evidence on him from the victim who showed proof yet Arsenal still play him and his team mates hug him like he ain’t done anything while the fans act oblivious. What makes you think United players wouldn’t do the same now case has been dropped? We got rid of him while he was on bail when they were looking for evidence. The same thing is happening to partey right now and no sponsor has bat an eyelid. I don’t want him back but your assumption that sponsors might leave might not be right. The club could very well decide he is a valuable asset and send him on a rehabilitation course and a PR run to try convince people he’s learned from his mistakes and is trying to be better
I don't want him back necessarily. However, the girl is allegedly back with. Also Alonso killed a woman but was acquitted. Why should Greenwood be treated differently?
I don't particularly care either way to be honest, I don't follow footballers of the pitch, I've no doubt that their will be a minority of players who are absolute scum, but that's true in all walks of life.
I'm not a fan of things like "he could still be guilty" like innocent until proven guilty isn't the corner stone of our justice system.
Charges were dropped, he's free to go. He can kick a ball for all I care.
As it stands I think we need to see what additional information comes to light / wait for the outcome of the clubs investigation.
It’s a very difficult one, as if the “new material” received by the police exonerates him then why shouldn’t he be allowed to come back.
That being said, the audio recordings were extremely damning and the language used by the police / cps hasn’t exactly said he’s innocent, just that he’s been cleared of the charges as there was no realistic chance of a conviction. Due to this information, yet to be seen, and the dropping out of key witnesses.
I’m not a lawyer, but that doesn’t exactly fill me with a feeling that’s it’s a statement saying that he’s overwhelmingly innocent and should have his name cleared….or they’d have said that. They’ve just said with the cards they have, they’d struggle to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he’s guilty.
IMO, I think this could potentially be the worst outcome for the club, as it’s sat in a middle grey area at present.
Pretty damning evidence in the public domain with the recordings, paints a fairly bleak picture of Greenwood to supporters and sponsors.
But from a contractual perspective, Greenwood has been cleared and therefore the club could be open to legal challenge if they don’t let him back.
Had Greenwood been convicted, his contract would have been terminated. The club have an army of lawyers and could potentially pay him off to terminate his contract by mutual agreement and waive his right to pursue any further action, but he could theoretically play hardball, refuse to leave and secure himself a big payout if the club wishes to distance themselves from him.
As I say, I could be talking rubbish if this new material turns out to exonerate him. I doubt it, but let’s wait and see.
I would also suggest that the Police would be unlikely to suggest he was completely innocent even if he was. They are sticking to the facts and the fact is, is that the charges have been dropped due to new. Information and withdrawal of a main witness.
The police can't decide if he is innocent or not, just as they can't decide if he is guilty or not. So the fact they haven't laid out the red carpet for him to advise of his innocence doesn't surprise me. There are just covering their backs.
In the UK, innocence is presumed until guilt is proven. As far as the law dictates, Greenwood is presumed innocent and a free man. There are a lot of things regarding this case that we do not, and will never, know. We have the leaked images and voice note. There will have been other evidence that came to light, as was referenced when the news broke. We will never know what this is. I support Manchester United Football Club. This is an extemely difficult situation, not just for the club, players, staff, supporters, but also those that have been impacted by domestic abuse. I believe in the UK process, and thus, Greenwood is presumed innocent. However, the club is doing it's own investigation, and I will support their decision. But, and I am neither attacking nor defending the alleged actions of Greenwood, we do not know the whole story. There may have been evidence that he did not commit those actions, and that it was not him on the voice note. It may have been decided that that was not enough evidence, as they could not identify him on the voice note. It may have been that they could prove it was him, but it was not enough evidence for another reason. There may have been something else which came up in evidence which put enough doubt in the evidence they had. WE DO NOT KNOW THE WHOLE STORY. We know a small snippet. I trust the club in it's own process. If they drop him, fine. If he is reencorporated, then also ok. He is a free man. Will I personally start supporting him as a player, buy his merchandise etc? No, I will not. Will I support my team? Yes I will. Will I be happy, if, after the process, he scores the winner in a derby and we win the league? Yes. But I will not celebrate his personal achievements, as that is my decision, until something can persuade me otherwise. I expect some backlash on this comment, as it can be mistaken as support for Greenwood, but I hope you can understand my approach, opinion and it helps you make up your mind if you are undecided in what to feel.
A lot of people would look at him as a role model tho before all this obviously he was my favourite player and if I was some kid who didn’t understand then who knows
A lot of people would look at him as a role model tho before all this obviously he was my favourite player and if I was some kid who didn’t understand then who knows
Because he hasn't be proven guilty. People talk about evidence but evidence can be faked. People seem to have forgotten the Amber Heard vs Johnny Depp case very quickly. I will only judge a person if I'm 100% sure they committed a crime.
Exactly! People go on and on about it. But that audiofile and picture without anything else isn't useful evidence at all. But everywhere I see people treating it like it is 100% real and it in itself also shows all context.
But if it did, we wouldn't be having this argument right now.
Beside that, and I don't know if I'm biased because I'm from a Scandinavian country and I'm a sociologist. But I believe way more in rehabilitation than punishment. Of course punishment is necessary to some degree, IF found guilty, but when I see people here saying he need to rot in a cell or never deserves to be happy again. That almost scares me.
I believe in the institutions, so if professional investigators and lawyers can't build a case, I have no business believing and spreading hearsay.
The audio file/pictures have never been disputed as being fake.
Due to his girlfriend no longer cooperating because they are back together the case falls through without her testifying.
I believe in rehabilitation of course but how in anyway can you point to Mason being rehabilitated? He’s back with the same poor girl he clearly abused having got away with it.
Oh I didn't mean that he's rehabilitated now. But I don't think it's humane to say, that a 21 year old boy needs to rot in a cell or never be happy because of something we know very very little about.
Depp failed in his libel case against The Sun because they found that there was domestic abuse.
The Depp/Heard trial last year was about defamation, and while Heard was found liable in all 3 cases, Depp was also found liable in 1/3 as well.
So just saying “people have forgotten about Heard vs Depp” means nothing because you clearly didn’t even understand what was going on there. It’s also completely irrelevant to Greenwood in which there’s literal audio of him.
He’s legally not guilty and as a result shouldn’t be legally forced to not play football, but I personally want him nowhere near this club, and to even insinuate that the evidence could have been fake is disgusting.
Well he's innocent until proven guilty?
Can't say he's guilty cause u heard a 20 second voice recording and a 10 second video with no context behind it. The police investigated this for 14 months and determined there is nothing to charge him with. I trust the police know alot more about the situation then any of us
Not what the cps decided - unless the young woman involved is willing to testify to support that audio evidence, even if it were admissible after she released it on social media first (which is a much longer legal qu.), they have no options to charge. She was the case. She appears to have backtracked, as is very common among abuse cases, which sinks the case. Not remotely the same as the police determining there's nothing to charge him with, following the original incident. They just can't possibly win that case, without her.
And what if him and the witness say that it was part of role play and they were both consenting adults and have no idea how it got recorded. Are u 100% sure and happy to say u know from that short recording that he is 100% assaulting her. If u or ur son was convicted of such a serious crime based on that recording for me is not enough.
Someone like Adam Johnson had clear evidence against him and is a piece of shit.
Someone like Ched Evans destroyed his career served time and has a bad reputation despite years later to be proved innocent.
It's a tough situation but I have to trust the police did a decent investigation
Aren't they now engaged? To me that signals that what happened wasn't what we all thought at the time it was.
It was concerning to see but we don't know what happened before or after, so we should trust in the legal process.
The club will make the right decision and we should respect it.
He’s more of a striker.
For me, charges were dropped against him so imo he hasn’t be charged with anything. If he is guilty, people do deserve second chances. The fact that him and the girl are working things out can’t be discredited.
Some people are saying it’s the result of an abusive relationship where the victim goes back to the abuser (was not found guilty by the way), but how do they know that’s the situation? Everyone on Reddit is just guessing. Unless they are friends with the girl and she tells them what’s going on, they are just speculating.
I’ll let man utd do their investigation but I will not judge him because I have no cause to. Hope whatever the outcome is, it’s positive for the club and the player, regardless of that a random person in Reddit thinks.
Holy fuck. Have you actually listened to the audio file?
Absolutely embarrassing take. The audio file is night and day, he is clearly threatening to rape her.
Unless you were there or have all the information you are a spectator as we are and are speculating.
I am not saying something didn't or did happen , I am saying I don't have all the details nor was I there so who am I to pass judgement. For all its worth maybe they always talk like that. Couple do strange shit.
Like I said, I wasn't there so all I know is that he wasn't charge and they are still together.
it’s a tough one. idk what to think. at first when the news came out i was like i never want to see him play for the club no matter what happens. but now that the charges have been dropped i can’t lie a part of me wouldn’t mind seeing him back. we know how talented he is/was and with him back we wouldn’t need to sign a striker he could slot in there and save us from spending 100+ mill. it would lowkey hurt if we let him go to see him most likely just go to another club and kill it for them. especially if it was another prem team, that would be even worse.
it’s up to the club/ten hag though, if ten hag decides he doesn’t want him then fair enough he’s the manager. but if they decide they want him to return then i won’t be mad at all.
I think it's obvious why the people who want him back would do so - he's good at kicking the ball into the net. He was better at it than Rashford, better than Anthony or Sancho, and better suited to play striker. For them, that's the entire discussion.
I see Greenwood as a Striker and we need those.
Regardless of what we think, we know one thing for certain, and that is the charges were dropped.
Although some have listened to some audio of disturbing behavior - there could be a lot of background to it. I'm taking it that Greenwood didn't know he was being recorded and he may have been under the influence/drunk at the time - we don't know. We do know that she recorded him without his knowledge so she got to set the scene and then hit record and then only release out to the public what she wanted to release. Those are the facts - I'm not stating one way or another who was at fault because I don't know (and didn't listen to the audio because of what I mentioned above - I could get my wife drunk and then start a fight w/ her and then record her after she's riled up and it wouldn't sound good for her). The physical abuse that was released in pictures is something that is scary too but we don't know the facts behind it.
All we know is that the police ended up not continuing w/ the case.
In order to join the team, he should have to consistently attend anger management courses while under contract and some kind of course that has to do w/ respecting women while under contract. I would also be in line w/ making some edits to his contract to make it more strict as in no drinking/drugs and a curfew during the season.
This way we, as in Man Utd, are showing that although we are following the law and recognize Greenwood is innocent and free to work, we are making sure that we are taking action and ownership on rehabilitating any behaviors that are not in line w/ what's expected w/ a Manchester United employee.
If you'd heard the audio, "being drunk" is not an excuse for what you can hear him say - and "not knowing you're being recorded" is even less of an excuse.
If I heard a recording like that of one of my mates or coworkers we wouldn’t be cool anymore. I wouldn’t want to be teammates with someone who does not have the decency to treat their partner like an equal human being and wouldn’t trust them to put anyone else above themselves. Dude’s actions indicate that he is a selfish creep and I don’t want him anywhere near this club.
>Atm I don’t want him anywhere near us, we are doing fine without him and we already have enough wingers with Antony Sancho Garnacho and rashford. If he was proven innocent then sure why not. Just curious to why people want him back even tho he could still be guilty?
You've decided he's guilty even though all charges have been dropped.
He's got talent and he's a United player. Greenwood was certainly better than Antony is, and it remains to be seen if Sancho is going to make a successful return to the team. Of course Greenwood will be hampered by the year out of playing football. But we can still use him for squad rotation hopefully.
>You've decided he's guilty even though all charges have been dropped.
dropped charges don't mean not guilty.
99% of rape and abuse cases get dropped because they can't get enough evidence as its near impossible.
apparently you care more about some results on a pitch then letting abusers be at the club. god help any of your family if they get abused because as you just said they arent being abused as they will never be convicted.
Greenwood has been on our books since he was seven. Now that there is no charge on him by the police, the case has been dismissed & they have cleared him of the accusations, perhaps they are split about a sense of duty towards one of their own, who has faced a lot of resentment in the public due to said accusations. Like a parent to a child they may feel a whole lifetime of stigma would be unfair to anyone despite the name been cleared.
If the woman who is said to have been the victim is not pursuing then perhaps everyone is reading the situation differently than it should be. If there was a charge then he’s out. But since there isn’t, it would be wrong to want him to not have a career at United where he grew up & thrived.
Greenwood has not been found guilty but seems everyone has taken the moral highground & condemned him forever..
John Terry is still loved by many though.
I’m 50/50, I think it’s unfair on him as he is TECHNICALLY innocent and if they can’t find him guilty, treating him as such is unfair. But then on the other hand idk how he wasn’t found guilty as it looked as if they had enough evidence to at the very least go to court. However there is stuff we don’t know so all we can say for a fact is there wasn’t enough evidence to find him guilty, the rest is up to interpretation.
That’s why I said technically, but then you can’t really call him guilty as it is unfair. There is 2 sides to a story and although I think he probably did it and therefore wouldn’t just welcome him back I think you gotta think of the what if, cuz if there was new evidence as the police said there is a chance he was innocent and that’s why he wasn’t taken to court (therefore making him not guilty)
I understand not wanting him back for what he did but you have the realize you are no the court of law and the court of law is what it is for a reason..if you are going to decide people's fates off public opinion even after a trial where he wasn't proved guilty then this is as good as the 1500s lmao..subject to this topic I'm not a fan of having Greenwood back but I will belittle noone who does since it's impossible to argue against "innocent until proven guilty"
From what I've seen, those that want him back mainly want him because he's a solid striker that could fit into ETH system and the club's been struggling with strikers so yeah
We need to think of the message we send to our Ladies team and all the female fans around the world
We are incredibly lucky to have built a talented female team and 1 male player does not deserve to take all the attention from what they are achieving on and off the pitch.
For me regardless of his talent as a player he as a person is a detriment to our whole club and we need to pay off or terminate the contract so someone else can can deal with him.
It’s not about wanting him back, he will be reinstated in time. He’s a multi million pound asset that a business is just not going to let become defunct.
Sadly United are only going to think about their bottom line. To think otherwise is ridiculous.
I'd argue the cost of keeping him far outweighs his value as a player.
There'd be protests outside OT every matchday. The ownership (whoever they are) don't want their brand associated with rape.
*That's* the bottom line mate
Yeah fine, but what you determine as far outweighing his value and what United determines are polar opposite.
Mark my words; he will be reintegrated whether you want it to happen or not, whether there are protests or not.
Both arsenal and Chelsea, amongst other clubs throughout the years have all been the centre of their own share of scandal. In time, the only thing that matters to these clubs is money.
I'd be very surprised if he's reinstated. If I was greenwood I'd be putting in a transfer request to play in another country. His life won't be worth living if he walks out on a prem pitch
Agreed. Greenwood's future lies elsewhere for the time being at least. Granted to lose such a talented young player is agony. Particularly as we know he would fit into Ten Hags pass and move system perfectly.
But United have always been bigger than the individual, and I'm afraid in Greenwood's case this should remain absolutely so.
Again its agony, but in the grand old scheme of things it has to be the right thing to do.
Greenwood is more talented than Sancho and Antony, the only one on his level is Rashy, Greenwood is a superb footballer, a bad person, yes, but a superb baller nonetheless
I'm at a loss to know what he has actually done wrong, nobody on this forum was there when this incident happened, none of us know that maybe it was a sex game that went wrong, maybe Greenwood and his girlfriend indulged in this behaviour regularly and it then went a bit tits up and she in a moment of frustration shared the video for all of us to see. I wasn't there and none of you were either, its not as black and white as it may seem, the authorities have spent a long time investigating it and decided that Greenwood won't be charged with any offence. Manchester United I think will do an indepth detailed investigation into the incident and then along with their legal people will decide his outcome. If I was sure assault and rape had occurred I wouldn't want him anywhere near the club but United's legal team are more qualified than we are and hopefully come to a decision that suits everybody. Whatever happened to innocent until proven otherwise ? If he has knocked her about and raped her and its proven then fuck him and I hope he rots.
If I knew him personally I would want nothing to do with him and hes obviously a scumbag, but to the money men at united hes probably worth close to a hundred million(arguebly) so they arent going to let him go for nothing or they will try to get him back playing and hope it blows over, for me, its the songs everybody will sing, they will be hilarious, mike tyson was done for rape, everybody loves him now, others I could mention, as long as he doesnt disrupt the team I dont mind, just depends how his teamates will feel
To be honest i’ll back ETH’s decision, at the end of the day we only know what was posted, thing is this I believe in 2nd chances but on the other hand he literally has to be an example to everyone who get a shit ton of money at a young age, and if he’s with her again I do hope that he’s been in therapy on his own and her the same, but at the end of the day it was her call to drop the charges and now it’s his job to step up and grow the fuck up. There are only 2 solutions for him become a decent human being or remain as a piece of shit. Football is secondary.
I'd want him back. Simply as someone who has worked with erratic youth before. He was wrong and I'm sure he mentally and physically abused her. 0 doubts about it. But I've also worked with young offenders, and they deserve as much chance to live and be successful as any of us. At 19 or 20 we are hardly developed enough to make right choices. He must understand consequences. He must be told that if he pulls something like he did when he went with Foden to fuck hookers, he's gone. He as much as talks with a woman the wrong way he's gone, he has any domestic call outs he's gone. With the case being dropped and the girl being back with him (AFAIK, may be wrong), it can be difficult to argue a contract termination.
As for the court of public opinion, many footballers indeed have done worse and its been seen that they've returned. But it shouldn't be such that he slots back immediately. If indeed United decides to bring him in, I'd like to see him do community service and actually get mental health help because this is not normal human behaviour.
Some people are hoping he’s learned a valuable lesson and want an additional potential option in our attack.
I, for one, think his time at Utd should be over. I’m not sure he’s learned anything and frankly might upset the chemistry of the side. Furthermore, until he’s made some serious adjustments to how he treats women, I’m not interested in seeing or hearing anything for the lad.
Been an American supporter since 99. I’m a teacher and my classroom is full of United flags and gear. Don’t want him anywhere near the club. That audio was evidence enough for me. If they did bring him back to the squad I would seriously consider finding another team to support.
Conviction or not, that recording was disgusting. Disgusting enough that as an organisation with female employees and female fans the only reasonable thing to do is terminate the contract.
His reputation is ruined.
Key witnesses withdrawing statements just smacks of guilt.
He got away with it, I still don't think he deserves to play for united.
I'm kinda disgusted at the fact he has made £75k a week for the last year for doing absolutely fuck all apart from waiting to get away with being a piece of shit.
Ho hum.
It’s actually sicking seeing how many are supporting him and claiming he’s innocent. Along with bs like the audio was deep faked and the photos were photoshopped. Trust me that bleeding and bruising was not digital that was real. I mean Jesus I just saw on a livestream some muppet saying he can change wtf
I’d actually be curious to see if there is any common threads among all the ones who claim he’s innocent and want him back.
Agree. The club is a brand that has to stand for something. Guilty of the charge or not, there's no denying that audio clip. From a footballing perspective, he could upset the dressing room and balance of the squad trying to fit him in now.
Generational talent and exactly what we need right now. I can't see a world in which he fills his potential now. I can see why people would want him though
Big divide I guess, on if you’ve heard the clips, I haven’t and feel that every one deserves to get a 2nd chance, he was and is a child in everything other that drinking age.. but… I haven’t heard the audio and I have a daughter so could well be that I would change my view..
Personally I think he did abuse and rape the girl, but they’ve agreed to pay her off or they’re back together, as is what happens with like 90% of rape cases.
At the end of the day, we all heard the tapes. We heard what that little scumbag was saying to that girl.
What if that was your sister? Or daughter?
Genuine question to understand your point:
If what we heard him say/do in the recordings = his actions, and fans not wanting him to play for the club anymore = condemnation, then doesn’t fans not wanting to him to play for the club because he abused his girlfriend (according to the audio we all heard) directly demonstrate him being condemned for his actions?
If not, what were you referring to?
The reason I’m asking is that while I have my opinion, I am genuinely interested to understand the opinions of others as OP intended with the question.
Thanks and glory glory man United!
He's not convicted for anything, and he's still under contract to be a man united player, if they don't take him back and he doesn't agree to mutual termination of contract, he might sue them, and they will pay heavily. The other thing they might do is slap a big fine on him for misconduct.
What do you mean “could still be”? The evidence and recording was there. The only “evidence that is not sufficient” is that she pulled the charges. If not, he would be on trial and going to prison.
If any season ticket holders want to leave if he comes back I'll be happy to take the ticket off your hands. Not supporting him, but you have to take these opportunities when they present themselves.
Objectively he's in the clear. So objectively he could play football again.
Subjectively he can fuck off. He isn't welcome any more and united would be taking a huge risk if they let him play again for us.
Farm him out on loan to some league 2 side and run his contract down. . United aren't terminating any contract, or doing anything wrong in loaning him out and aren't risking a monumental fan backlash if they let him near the 1st team again.
That's legally how this should end, then we can all move on.. hell soon be forgotten.. no way back.
*Just curious to why people want him back even tho he could still be guilty?*
And what if he is not? Should we rid one of possibly biggest talents to come through recently, because he might be guilty?
Additionally he is a striker, not a winger. And we certainly dont have too many of those.
You say “could” be guilty, which implies you are split in opinion. If he is not guilty then he should be playing for us. He’s a top talent and if he was back and in form he would add strength to the squad. Would likely develop into a world class player.
Because he isn’t legally guilty (which is bullshit), he will most likely play for us next year. Assuming 1 year off and all the phycology issues around it didn’t wreck him then he will still be a top talent. One that any team would be happy to have (prior to all this).
So it doesn’t matter what we think. If he plays again then he plays again. If that happens he will do good things for the team. I would hope there are tons of counseling requirements though.
Yh I’m very split in opinion if he is actually proven innocent I’ll feel very bad for him as he would have been through a lot and I would love for him to come back but at the moment we just don’t know so I can’t decide what we should do, what I was mainly asking was why do people want him back even if he is guilty
I think a lot of people haven’t seen any clips or recordings and think this is another case of falsely accused? That way is easier to jump like damn he lost 18 months of his life because of a lie and now he will be back!
Remember that not everyone is reading all the news about the team, some people barely watch the games tbf.
I’m not saying he is innocent or guilty or bla bla. People just jump too easily to conclusions.
I think it's a bitter pill for a lot of people that Arsenal are probably going to win the league with a rapist in their first eleven while we've done the right thing and it's fucked us up.
Feels like we've been punished for doing the right thing. Which we have been.
But we have at least done the right thing.
your the one who should be fucking off. your a plastic fan, worst fan in existence. would rather support Ronaldo who was absolute shit over ETH and now this.
the fact you even think your a fan of the club is pathetic.
Unfortunately football fans have short memories. Alonso and especially Partey spring to mind.
partey's even far worse imo he has multiple accusations from different women just like mendy
There's no actual evidence on Thomas partey. We have an audio clip of greenwood and it doesn't sound like AI
there's screenshots guess they're not evidence enough
Not discounting anything… but there’s a reason why voice recordings are admissible in courts around the world, and screenshots aren’t in many. One is easy to fake (not that partey’s are) the other not so much.
They're both admissible forms of evidence everywhere, but are strongly challenged and limited, video too. Hearsay rules come into play, as do issues around the creation and collection of that media and their evidentiary support. In this MG case that audio becomes procedurally useless in prosecution if the young woman involved is no longer willing to testify to support it.
The audio wasn't enough to convict him so we can't assume it was actually genuine
That's not true at all. She pulled out of it. Why do some of you keep making things up?
This is it, I know Mason is guilty we all heard how he spoke to her. Nobody saw what he did just heard voices but regardless it was wrong. Having said that Partey is playing and everybody KNOWS he is considerably worse. I don't think he'll play for united again, the brand is too big and it would be too damaging but I think he'll go somewhere else and play
Noone KNOWS anything about the Partey situation cause there is no concrete evidence. Stop talking like man's was caught on camera in the act.
To your point, actually I had no clue about Partey’s situation
You know Mendy was found innocent right?
Keita as well
Especially Partey? Alonso's case is much worse
One was deliberate. The other was a stupid stupid mistake.
Drink driving isn’t an ‘oopsie’
No, sorry, drinking and driving twice the speeding limit is not a mistake. A mistake is when you swerve the wrong way or something. He was actually being tried for manslaughter
Was. It's still a mistake. A fucking dumb one.
These days anyone can accuse you of anything. Mendy's example proves that you're not guilty until proven to be so.
98% of men accused of rape are found not guilty… given it’s unlikely 98% of woman are lying, maybe the CPS are just shite
The idea that Mendy is innocent is far more spurious than the idea that 7 different women, including one who is under the age of 18, are all making up accusations against him for some sort of personal gain (or for any reason, frankly). Doesn't take a genius to work that out, even if you're not aware of how rare a conviction is for rape and sexual assault in the UK. Not getting a conviction does not make someone innocent, especially when there is evidence (as with Greenwood) or multiple victims who have been brave enough to come forward (as with Mendy). Also 2 of the cases against him are going to retrial, so he may yet be convicted of his crimes.
Very weird situation. Supposedly they’re back together? And the victims father is cool with him again?? Also, I think Greenwood could sue Utd for “unlawful termination”. I don’t want this to ruin the synergy we/EtH created. So no, he needs to stay away.
Victims father supported him from the start.
And that’s why she dates abusers.
The father sounds like a pimp.
Yeah I don't rate the father at all. Initially I thought he could be just trying to protect her by aiming to divert attention from her by arguing it's been misunderstood but a lot of what he has said about Mason is does seem like he's supporting him.
It’s the money. Everyone knows
Only correct analysis. Any decent being has seen enough but alas legal consequence to terminating.
It's VERY common for abuse victims to go back to their abusers unfortunately
My notion is that after United conducts their own investigation on greenwood, he might be told that he is not a part of their plans for now. However, they will give him an option to go on loan in 2nd division and to find his form back. The loan tenure surely will be long enough for everyone to forget him as a player. Diplomatically, united didn’t drove him out but didn’t put him as a priority either. So that they can never be accused of putting a career on jeopardy regardless of him being proven innocent ( in the eyes of law)
Just as a nitpick, he wasn’t proven innocent, he just wasn’t proven guilty. And I do believe in innocence until proven otherwise.
The way the law works, you are innocent until proven guilty. Imagine if it was the other way around and you would have had to prove your innocence.. yikes
Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. In the court of public opinion there aren't such safeguards
Yea well thats why there are the courts. The public is free to have their opinion, doen't mean they are right.
Except the public is right. That kid is a rapist.
how do we know for sure though? if it was pretty sure then he would be in prison
Just because the woman who was raped doesn’t want to press charges, doesn’t mean she wasn’t the victim of domestic violence and rape. Greenwood is a rapist.
And visa versa. Unless you was there, you are just speculating. Did the woman directly tell you what happened ? Additionally you do realize that they are back together right? So maybe your story is twisted? 🤷🏼♂️
i personally think he did it but ive seen audio clips fakes, the technology that we have now is scary realistic. There are other things that happened which is them getting back together and it not being her that leaked them. The evidence was definitely tampered with as it was originally a 10 minute + clip. As much as i do think he is a rapist. part of me believes he is actually innocent and tbh i want to believe that as he is only young
Anyone who listened to the audio knows what he did.
i personally think he did it but ive seen audio clips fakes, the technology that we have now is scary realistic
Yea, she also has pictures. And no, just because they didn’t go to court doesn’t mean he’s guilty. It was all up for the girl to decide. She was probably paid out in a normal case. Now, shit got complicated when the father defended greenwood and the chick came back to the relationship which confuses fans even more and swaying fans towards greenwood. I believe in second chances, but not as a united player but as a footballer, he can piss off, not everyone gets second chances at this club
you are \*presumed\* innocent until proven guilty. That is not the same thing as actually being innocent and definitely not the same thing as being proved innocent.
Ok but since everyone here is nit-picky. One is not proven innocent but one is proven guilty or not guilty/ acquitted. “Note that an acquittal does necessarily not mean that the defendant is innocent in a criminal case. Rather, it means that the prosecutor failed to prove that the defendant was guilty “beyond a reasonable doubt.””
True but the benefit of the doubt always like with the defendant.
Let me make my stance clear. I don’t want him anywhere near the club, I don’t think he is a good person, just clarifying that he is legally NOT guilty of any crime.
I think people should be afforded to learn and grow and make amends. I’m indifferent on him coming back or staying away. I think he will not play for Man Utd again and would support that decision, but I would support him and the club if he did return. The court of public opinion shouldn’t be involved - the case is dropped, they’re back together I believe, they must be working through those things together and hopefully he’s learning to improve as a human being. 21 years old and people think he should be shamed for the rest of his life? I guess I believe in rehabilitation and forgiveness rather than a life sentence and if he works to improve himself and the others around him then I have no issue with him coming back. I guess it’s the question of if you abuse once, are you forever someone who will abuse people? Or can you learn and develop to become a better, kinder person? Most comments I see write him off now as forever a scumbag. If he comes back, which wouldn’t be immediate anyway given registration rules, time out, match fitness etc. then great so long as he gets his head down and over time this will pass. If the club release him/sell him due to sponsors/fan pressure then I’ll respect and support that too. I think he’ll end up going abroad and play his football still. I just hope he gets the help he needs and can learn from this and become a better person.
Fucking bingo, nail on the head mate. Court of public opinion has already decided but shouldnt, as people we do not know everything about the situation, we only know what had been presented to us, that the charges have been dropped, a key witness has withdrawn and other evidence has arisen, along with the audio and images that were releaed by harriet that started this. I agree with your point that people deserve the chance to learn and grow from their mistakes, the question comes whether the club decides he does that here, or he is too much of a risk, ultimately impossible to please everyone with this. Myself i back what the club decides. They will have more information and a deeper investigation than we could get viewing news articles and speculating, the internet is an echo chamber of opinions and that wont change, if the club decides to keep him i will listen and respect that decision because in this case, they know what is best, same goes for selling him.
Love this. Thank you for sharing. I hope he gets the chance to get his life back together. I hope he focuses on football and surrounds himself with the right people. Go away, stay in a training camp type of environment and focus on being a professional football player. This could go either way - the frustration and the hatred he may receive could drive him further out into madness. He is a young man and I hope he has the right people around him.
Finally, beautifully put. Adding to this, here is my take on the mental state of Greenwood. He came as a young promising player and lit up the team. He was 19 and a year later was a regular starter in a team that was horrible, criticised, players highlighted and rebuked. For a 20 year old it might have been too much to take. Look at Rashford face, Wan Bissaka seems to be getting back, Sancho just returned from a long break, Lingard just admitted to have had depression, news from other sources confirm on the toxic environment everywhere around the Old Trafford. Unfortunately Greenwood's way was just unacceptable. But i believe, as above, he is young, compared to other older, matured players that have been accused, and can change if willing to, and I also believe ETH is best for him to give him a direction and change him like he has done with others.
This is probably the most level headed answer I've seen regarding this situation. Most people would just either wrote him off or fully forgive him like it never happened
To be clear I believe in rehabilitation and forgiveness as well, and I haven’t decided how I’d like to see this end. However, my only issue with your statement is that the entire business on MUFC is in fact the court of public opinion. You can say it’s to win titles but in reality, titles don’t mean anything other than “we’re good at this thing we all collectively ascribe value to, so maybe you should like us as a club.” That’s the nature of sport. If Greenwood was an architect and he could go back to his job that doesn’t have to deal with the public’s opinion of him, that’s different than him being a part of any club that’s trying to impress their fans to get us to continue spending money on the sport.
Exactly my sentiment on this case. Regardless in United or other clubs, this boy should be given a chance to amend. He could be drunk or trick into doing that or genuine abuser or simply stupid punk.. who knows as we were not there.
Can I ask why you think putting his head down and training really hard would be making amend? The making amend should be a person who we have strong proof of being guilty of what he’s accused of going to jail.
This is the most sensible take I’ve seen so far. I’m very angry he avoided punishment, but if he is genuinely going to get rehabilitation and help to become a better person, then that’s the best course of action. It’s better than him being locked into that abusive mindset and risking him doing it to someone else in the future. I still don’t want him anywhere near the club, though.
very well put, this is my line of thinking as well.
I'd rather parachute him into russia so he can cause mayhem there
If you’ve listened to the clips and seen the photos you know he’s a little scumbag. Sadly a bigger than I’d like to admit chunk of our fans so desperate for success they’d sell their morals to get it.
If I hadn’t heard the audio or seen the pics, I’d be willing to give him a second chance, but after that stuff came out, I couldn’t support him at our club anymore.
Absolutely agreed lad
Yeah the amount of people I’ve seen saying he should be back even if he did is crazy, one thing I’ve noticed is they are mostly all from the same place which is odd
Explain what you mean by “they are mostly all from the same place”
Same country
What country?
you mean geographically? or a certain subreddit?
Prison perhaps?
Yeah. Giving Greeny a second chance is like giving Donald Trump one. What would it accomplish? Nothing! That kind of people would just be even worse off after getting next chances.
Considering there’s a huge portion of this fanbase that want state ownership so we can spend like Chelsea just did, it doesn’t surprise me there’s a big chunk of this fanbase that wants a guy who beat up and raped a woman, regardless of charges dropped (as they’re back together), back
Yeah that’s what people fail to grasp. Charges dropped doesn’t mean innocent.
Idk where both of you read comments, but I've never seen anyone seriously wanting greenwood back, or to spend like chelsea.
I think Instagram was full of these idiots
Most footie fans would happily have Kevin Spacy as their CF if he was as good as Lewadowski… Grim, I love the sport, but Footie fans are the worst part about it
Yes.
Being a scummy person isn’t a good enough reason to destroy his life or take away his livelihood, no one is selling their morals for success they’re just saying to move on as he wasn’t found guilty. You don’t have to like him, but you’re choosing to follow him and to give him attention when you don’t have to all because you want everyone that is involved with something you support to fit the ideology of what you find acceptable in a person in that position. Nobody is perfect, and in this case he is far from perfect, but he’s still a human being whether you like it or not and he is not guilty of a crime like it or not. If he is as bad of a person that everyone believes he is he will eventually get what’s coming to him one way or another, but it’s his own actions that should condemn him and not a rabid fan base that are not privy to 100% of the facts about what truly happened.
Great let him play somewhere else then.
Why should you get to dictate it just so you can find everyone that plays for the team you support to fit the ideology of someone that’s worth the title of a player for that team? You don’t have to like him or support him, but his livelihood is none of your business.
>or take away his livelihood He can have a job, but I don't want to see him anywhere near a public facing, massively paying job.
Being a premier league footballer isn’t a livelihood😂
He destroyed his own life. His actions. Nobody is destroying it for him.
If sponsors pull out he won’t play. If they don’t care he might be sent on loan for the rest of the season to get the heat off him before he returns. I think the odds of him getting a mutually terminated contract are high, with him being picked up by a foreign league - likely the Middle East. I don’t see anyone in Europe wanting to play him this season.
No sponsor has pulled out of arsenal over partey have they? And there’s pretty damning evidence on him from the victim who showed proof yet Arsenal still play him and his team mates hug him like he ain’t done anything while the fans act oblivious. What makes you think United players wouldn’t do the same now case has been dropped? We got rid of him while he was on bail when they were looking for evidence. The same thing is happening to partey right now and no sponsor has bat an eyelid. I don’t want him back but your assumption that sponsors might leave might not be right. The club could very well decide he is a valuable asset and send him on a rehabilitation course and a PR run to try convince people he’s learned from his mistakes and is trying to be better
I don't want him back necessarily. However, the girl is allegedly back with. Also Alonso killed a woman but was acquitted. Why should Greenwood be treated differently?
I don't particularly care either way to be honest, I don't follow footballers of the pitch, I've no doubt that their will be a minority of players who are absolute scum, but that's true in all walks of life. I'm not a fan of things like "he could still be guilty" like innocent until proven guilty isn't the corner stone of our justice system. Charges were dropped, he's free to go. He can kick a ball for all I care.
Yeah but surely it would affect things on the pitch, the dressing room would probably go into a worse state that it was last season
That's for the club and the dressing room to decide. My opinion makes no difference to it.
OP is arguing so fiercely as if the United bored will come on this post to gather opinions what they should do.
I don’t want him back, but if OP asked a question people should be allowed to respond without being downvoted into oblivion guys
As it stands I think we need to see what additional information comes to light / wait for the outcome of the clubs investigation. It’s a very difficult one, as if the “new material” received by the police exonerates him then why shouldn’t he be allowed to come back. That being said, the audio recordings were extremely damning and the language used by the police / cps hasn’t exactly said he’s innocent, just that he’s been cleared of the charges as there was no realistic chance of a conviction. Due to this information, yet to be seen, and the dropping out of key witnesses. I’m not a lawyer, but that doesn’t exactly fill me with a feeling that’s it’s a statement saying that he’s overwhelmingly innocent and should have his name cleared….or they’d have said that. They’ve just said with the cards they have, they’d struggle to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he’s guilty. IMO, I think this could potentially be the worst outcome for the club, as it’s sat in a middle grey area at present. Pretty damning evidence in the public domain with the recordings, paints a fairly bleak picture of Greenwood to supporters and sponsors. But from a contractual perspective, Greenwood has been cleared and therefore the club could be open to legal challenge if they don’t let him back. Had Greenwood been convicted, his contract would have been terminated. The club have an army of lawyers and could potentially pay him off to terminate his contract by mutual agreement and waive his right to pursue any further action, but he could theoretically play hardball, refuse to leave and secure himself a big payout if the club wishes to distance themselves from him. As I say, I could be talking rubbish if this new material turns out to exonerate him. I doubt it, but let’s wait and see.
I would also suggest that the Police would be unlikely to suggest he was completely innocent even if he was. They are sticking to the facts and the fact is, is that the charges have been dropped due to new. Information and withdrawal of a main witness. The police can't decide if he is innocent or not, just as they can't decide if he is guilty or not. So the fact they haven't laid out the red carpet for him to advise of his innocence doesn't surprise me. There are just covering their backs.
I am not here to take a higher moral ground. At the end of the day if the law of the land has acquitted him then thats the end of the matter.
How many people love Ronaldo and Giggs despite similar issues
I dont think giggs has a lot of fans left (fans of footballing performances aside obviously)
In the UK, innocence is presumed until guilt is proven. As far as the law dictates, Greenwood is presumed innocent and a free man. There are a lot of things regarding this case that we do not, and will never, know. We have the leaked images and voice note. There will have been other evidence that came to light, as was referenced when the news broke. We will never know what this is. I support Manchester United Football Club. This is an extemely difficult situation, not just for the club, players, staff, supporters, but also those that have been impacted by domestic abuse. I believe in the UK process, and thus, Greenwood is presumed innocent. However, the club is doing it's own investigation, and I will support their decision. But, and I am neither attacking nor defending the alleged actions of Greenwood, we do not know the whole story. There may have been evidence that he did not commit those actions, and that it was not him on the voice note. It may have been decided that that was not enough evidence, as they could not identify him on the voice note. It may have been that they could prove it was him, but it was not enough evidence for another reason. There may have been something else which came up in evidence which put enough doubt in the evidence they had. WE DO NOT KNOW THE WHOLE STORY. We know a small snippet. I trust the club in it's own process. If they drop him, fine. If he is reencorporated, then also ok. He is a free man. Will I personally start supporting him as a player, buy his merchandise etc? No, I will not. Will I support my team? Yes I will. Will I be happy, if, after the process, he scores the winner in a derby and we win the league? Yes. But I will not celebrate his personal achievements, as that is my decision, until something can persuade me otherwise. I expect some backlash on this comment, as it can be mistaken as support for Greenwood, but I hope you can understand my approach, opinion and it helps you make up your mind if you are undecided in what to feel.
he's been cleared probably not a great guy... but it's not like he's going to date my sister either. he's a footballer, not a role model.
A lot of people would look at him as a role model tho before all this obviously he was my favourite player and if I was some kid who didn’t understand then who knows
A lot of people would look at him as a role model tho before all this obviously he was my favourite player and if I was some kid who didn’t understand then who knows
Because he hasn't be proven guilty. People talk about evidence but evidence can be faked. People seem to have forgotten the Amber Heard vs Johnny Depp case very quickly. I will only judge a person if I'm 100% sure they committed a crime.
Exactly! People go on and on about it. But that audiofile and picture without anything else isn't useful evidence at all. But everywhere I see people treating it like it is 100% real and it in itself also shows all context. But if it did, we wouldn't be having this argument right now. Beside that, and I don't know if I'm biased because I'm from a Scandinavian country and I'm a sociologist. But I believe way more in rehabilitation than punishment. Of course punishment is necessary to some degree, IF found guilty, but when I see people here saying he need to rot in a cell or never deserves to be happy again. That almost scares me. I believe in the institutions, so if professional investigators and lawyers can't build a case, I have no business believing and spreading hearsay.
The audio file/pictures have never been disputed as being fake. Due to his girlfriend no longer cooperating because they are back together the case falls through without her testifying. I believe in rehabilitation of course but how in anyway can you point to Mason being rehabilitated? He’s back with the same poor girl he clearly abused having got away with it.
Oh I didn't mean that he's rehabilitated now. But I don't think it's humane to say, that a 21 year old boy needs to rot in a cell or never be happy because of something we know very very little about.
Depp failed in his libel case against The Sun because they found that there was domestic abuse. The Depp/Heard trial last year was about defamation, and while Heard was found liable in all 3 cases, Depp was also found liable in 1/3 as well. So just saying “people have forgotten about Heard vs Depp” means nothing because you clearly didn’t even understand what was going on there. It’s also completely irrelevant to Greenwood in which there’s literal audio of him. He’s legally not guilty and as a result shouldn’t be legally forced to not play football, but I personally want him nowhere near this club, and to even insinuate that the evidence could have been fake is disgusting.
It is not insinuation. It is a possibility. Not of being faked but of it having been staged.
dawg its not like this case is a he said she said thing. hes fucking guilty lmao.
Because I believe in innocent until proven guilty
Well he's innocent until proven guilty? Can't say he's guilty cause u heard a 20 second voice recording and a 10 second video with no context behind it. The police investigated this for 14 months and determined there is nothing to charge him with. I trust the police know alot more about the situation then any of us
Not what the cps decided - unless the young woman involved is willing to testify to support that audio evidence, even if it were admissible after she released it on social media first (which is a much longer legal qu.), they have no options to charge. She was the case. She appears to have backtracked, as is very common among abuse cases, which sinks the case. Not remotely the same as the police determining there's nothing to charge him with, following the original incident. They just can't possibly win that case, without her.
A 20 second voice note of someone saying I don’t want to have sex and the other one saying he doesn’t care means quite a bit
And what if him and the witness say that it was part of role play and they were both consenting adults and have no idea how it got recorded. Are u 100% sure and happy to say u know from that short recording that he is 100% assaulting her. If u or ur son was convicted of such a serious crime based on that recording for me is not enough. Someone like Adam Johnson had clear evidence against him and is a piece of shit. Someone like Ched Evans destroyed his career served time and has a bad reputation despite years later to be proved innocent. It's a tough situation but I have to trust the police did a decent investigation
But why would his gf post it to expose him if it was just roleplay
How do you know it was a legit voice clip? Please share the evidence
Aren't they now engaged? To me that signals that what happened wasn't what we all thought at the time it was. It was concerning to see but we don't know what happened before or after, so we should trust in the legal process. The club will make the right decision and we should respect it.
He’s more of a striker. For me, charges were dropped against him so imo he hasn’t be charged with anything. If he is guilty, people do deserve second chances. The fact that him and the girl are working things out can’t be discredited. Some people are saying it’s the result of an abusive relationship where the victim goes back to the abuser (was not found guilty by the way), but how do they know that’s the situation? Everyone on Reddit is just guessing. Unless they are friends with the girl and she tells them what’s going on, they are just speculating. I’ll let man utd do their investigation but I will not judge him because I have no cause to. Hope whatever the outcome is, it’s positive for the club and the player, regardless of that a random person in Reddit thinks.
Holy fuck. Have you actually listened to the audio file? Absolutely embarrassing take. The audio file is night and day, he is clearly threatening to rape her.
Unless you were there or have all the information you are a spectator as we are and are speculating. I am not saying something didn't or did happen , I am saying I don't have all the details nor was I there so who am I to pass judgement. For all its worth maybe they always talk like that. Couple do strange shit. Like I said, I wasn't there so all I know is that he wasn't charge and they are still together.
Tough one. Yes he's a probably a complete twat but he's also been found not guilty so I'd take him back but he's on very thin ice
it’s a tough one. idk what to think. at first when the news came out i was like i never want to see him play for the club no matter what happens. but now that the charges have been dropped i can’t lie a part of me wouldn’t mind seeing him back. we know how talented he is/was and with him back we wouldn’t need to sign a striker he could slot in there and save us from spending 100+ mill. it would lowkey hurt if we let him go to see him most likely just go to another club and kill it for them. especially if it was another prem team, that would be even worse. it’s up to the club/ten hag though, if ten hag decides he doesn’t want him then fair enough he’s the manager. but if they decide they want him to return then i won’t be mad at all.
If you heard the audio you probably wouldn't have that opinion mate.
Holy fuck how were you downvoted
Because you should believe in innocent until PROVEN guilty.
So we sell him
I think it's obvious why the people who want him back would do so - he's good at kicking the ball into the net. He was better at it than Rashford, better than Anthony or Sancho, and better suited to play striker. For them, that's the entire discussion.
He doesn't deserve the privilege of being a professional footballer
I see Greenwood as a Striker and we need those. Regardless of what we think, we know one thing for certain, and that is the charges were dropped. Although some have listened to some audio of disturbing behavior - there could be a lot of background to it. I'm taking it that Greenwood didn't know he was being recorded and he may have been under the influence/drunk at the time - we don't know. We do know that she recorded him without his knowledge so she got to set the scene and then hit record and then only release out to the public what she wanted to release. Those are the facts - I'm not stating one way or another who was at fault because I don't know (and didn't listen to the audio because of what I mentioned above - I could get my wife drunk and then start a fight w/ her and then record her after she's riled up and it wouldn't sound good for her). The physical abuse that was released in pictures is something that is scary too but we don't know the facts behind it. All we know is that the police ended up not continuing w/ the case. In order to join the team, he should have to consistently attend anger management courses while under contract and some kind of course that has to do w/ respecting women while under contract. I would also be in line w/ making some edits to his contract to make it more strict as in no drinking/drugs and a curfew during the season. This way we, as in Man Utd, are showing that although we are following the law and recognize Greenwood is innocent and free to work, we are making sure that we are taking action and ownership on rehabilitating any behaviors that are not in line w/ what's expected w/ a Manchester United employee.
If you'd heard the audio, "being drunk" is not an excuse for what you can hear him say - and "not knowing you're being recorded" is even less of an excuse.
If I heard a recording like that of one of my mates or coworkers we wouldn’t be cool anymore. I wouldn’t want to be teammates with someone who does not have the decency to treat their partner like an equal human being and wouldn’t trust them to put anyone else above themselves. Dude’s actions indicate that he is a selfish creep and I don’t want him anywhere near this club.
i dont care what United need.... like holy shit you care more about a fucking game of football then the fact somebody is an abusive piece of shit.
>Atm I don’t want him anywhere near us, we are doing fine without him and we already have enough wingers with Antony Sancho Garnacho and rashford. If he was proven innocent then sure why not. Just curious to why people want him back even tho he could still be guilty? You've decided he's guilty even though all charges have been dropped. He's got talent and he's a United player. Greenwood was certainly better than Antony is, and it remains to be seen if Sancho is going to make a successful return to the team. Of course Greenwood will be hampered by the year out of playing football. But we can still use him for squad rotation hopefully.
>You've decided he's guilty even though all charges have been dropped. dropped charges don't mean not guilty. 99% of rape and abuse cases get dropped because they can't get enough evidence as its near impossible. apparently you care more about some results on a pitch then letting abusers be at the club. god help any of your family if they get abused because as you just said they arent being abused as they will never be convicted.
Greenwood has been on our books since he was seven. Now that there is no charge on him by the police, the case has been dismissed & they have cleared him of the accusations, perhaps they are split about a sense of duty towards one of their own, who has faced a lot of resentment in the public due to said accusations. Like a parent to a child they may feel a whole lifetime of stigma would be unfair to anyone despite the name been cleared. If the woman who is said to have been the victim is not pursuing then perhaps everyone is reading the situation differently than it should be. If there was a charge then he’s out. But since there isn’t, it would be wrong to want him to not have a career at United where he grew up & thrived.
Greenwood has not been found guilty but seems everyone has taken the moral highground & condemned him forever.. John Terry is still loved by many though.
I’m 50/50, I think it’s unfair on him as he is TECHNICALLY innocent and if they can’t find him guilty, treating him as such is unfair. But then on the other hand idk how he wasn’t found guilty as it looked as if they had enough evidence to at the very least go to court. However there is stuff we don’t know so all we can say for a fact is there wasn’t enough evidence to find him guilty, the rest is up to interpretation.
99% of abuse cases get dropped as its near impossible to get evidence....
That’s why I said technically, but then you can’t really call him guilty as it is unfair. There is 2 sides to a story and although I think he probably did it and therefore wouldn’t just welcome him back I think you gotta think of the what if, cuz if there was new evidence as the police said there is a chance he was innocent and that’s why he wasn’t taken to court (therefore making him not guilty)
I understand not wanting him back for what he did but you have the realize you are no the court of law and the court of law is what it is for a reason..if you are going to decide people's fates off public opinion even after a trial where he wasn't proved guilty then this is as good as the 1500s lmao..subject to this topic I'm not a fan of having Greenwood back but I will belittle noone who does since it's impossible to argue against "innocent until proven guilty"
From what I've seen, those that want him back mainly want him because he's a solid striker that could fit into ETH system and the club's been struggling with strikers so yeah
We need to think of the message we send to our Ladies team and all the female fans around the world We are incredibly lucky to have built a talented female team and 1 male player does not deserve to take all the attention from what they are achieving on and off the pitch. For me regardless of his talent as a player he as a person is a detriment to our whole club and we need to pay off or terminate the contract so someone else can can deal with him.
It’s not about wanting him back, he will be reinstated in time. He’s a multi million pound asset that a business is just not going to let become defunct. Sadly United are only going to think about their bottom line. To think otherwise is ridiculous.
I'd argue the cost of keeping him far outweighs his value as a player. There'd be protests outside OT every matchday. The ownership (whoever they are) don't want their brand associated with rape. *That's* the bottom line mate
Yeah fine, but what you determine as far outweighing his value and what United determines are polar opposite. Mark my words; he will be reintegrated whether you want it to happen or not, whether there are protests or not. Both arsenal and Chelsea, amongst other clubs throughout the years have all been the centre of their own share of scandal. In time, the only thing that matters to these clubs is money.
I'd be very surprised if he's reinstated. If I was greenwood I'd be putting in a transfer request to play in another country. His life won't be worth living if he walks out on a prem pitch
Agreed. Greenwood's future lies elsewhere for the time being at least. Granted to lose such a talented young player is agony. Particularly as we know he would fit into Ten Hags pass and move system perfectly. But United have always been bigger than the individual, and I'm afraid in Greenwood's case this should remain absolutely so. Again its agony, but in the grand old scheme of things it has to be the right thing to do.
You underestimate the power of PR machines. A few charity works, good football performances would make sure some fans will forget about what he did
New player Gason Mreenwood suits up for the first team in 4 months
[удалено]
Because he good football
Rape
All charges were dropped.
Dropped doesn’t mean innocent
I know, but nothing says he's guilt of anything. Except the court of public opinion.
*and the audio file we can all go and listen to
Anyone that wants him back is a waste of carbon.
So people not agreeing with you is per definition wrong?
This is the truth right here. I'll say goodbye to United the day he steps back into training.
And you saying goodbye to MUFC will effect the club in what way?
People upholding their morals doesn't have to affect change but for the individual who upholds them.
Same here. He's a disgrace.
Greenwood is more talented than Sancho and Antony, the only one on his level is Rashy, Greenwood is a superb footballer, a bad person, yes, but a superb baller nonetheless
I'm at a loss to know what he has actually done wrong, nobody on this forum was there when this incident happened, none of us know that maybe it was a sex game that went wrong, maybe Greenwood and his girlfriend indulged in this behaviour regularly and it then went a bit tits up and she in a moment of frustration shared the video for all of us to see. I wasn't there and none of you were either, its not as black and white as it may seem, the authorities have spent a long time investigating it and decided that Greenwood won't be charged with any offence. Manchester United I think will do an indepth detailed investigation into the incident and then along with their legal people will decide his outcome. If I was sure assault and rape had occurred I wouldn't want him anywhere near the club but United's legal team are more qualified than we are and hopefully come to a decision that suits everybody. Whatever happened to innocent until proven otherwise ? If he has knocked her about and raped her and its proven then fuck him and I hope he rots.
If I knew him personally I would want nothing to do with him and hes obviously a scumbag, but to the money men at united hes probably worth close to a hundred million(arguebly) so they arent going to let him go for nothing or they will try to get him back playing and hope it blows over, for me, its the songs everybody will sing, they will be hilarious, mike tyson was done for rape, everybody loves him now, others I could mention, as long as he doesnt disrupt the team I dont mind, just depends how his teamates will feel
He’s a baller.
He’s a ballbag***
Bawbag*
Rapist\*\*\*
We are doing fine without him. So why the hell would we need/want him?
Because he's a potentially great player.
Yes , he's a very talented player.
To be honest i’ll back ETH’s decision, at the end of the day we only know what was posted, thing is this I believe in 2nd chances but on the other hand he literally has to be an example to everyone who get a shit ton of money at a young age, and if he’s with her again I do hope that he’s been in therapy on his own and her the same, but at the end of the day it was her call to drop the charges and now it’s his job to step up and grow the fuck up. There are only 2 solutions for him become a decent human being or remain as a piece of shit. Football is secondary.
I'd want him back. Simply as someone who has worked with erratic youth before. He was wrong and I'm sure he mentally and physically abused her. 0 doubts about it. But I've also worked with young offenders, and they deserve as much chance to live and be successful as any of us. At 19 or 20 we are hardly developed enough to make right choices. He must understand consequences. He must be told that if he pulls something like he did when he went with Foden to fuck hookers, he's gone. He as much as talks with a woman the wrong way he's gone, he has any domestic call outs he's gone. With the case being dropped and the girl being back with him (AFAIK, may be wrong), it can be difficult to argue a contract termination. As for the court of public opinion, many footballers indeed have done worse and its been seen that they've returned. But it shouldn't be such that he slots back immediately. If indeed United decides to bring him in, I'd like to see him do community service and actually get mental health help because this is not normal human behaviour.
In what world are you not developed enough to know rape and domestic violence are wrong choices at 19/20. He's not a 5 year old he's an adult
Simple reason tbh, did everyone forget how good the kid was?
Nah fuck him. He’s a piece of shit
Some people are hoping he’s learned a valuable lesson and want an additional potential option in our attack. I, for one, think his time at Utd should be over. I’m not sure he’s learned anything and frankly might upset the chemistry of the side. Furthermore, until he’s made some serious adjustments to how he treats women, I’m not interested in seeing or hearing anything for the lad.
Been an American supporter since 99. I’m a teacher and my classroom is full of United flags and gear. Don’t want him anywhere near the club. That audio was evidence enough for me. If they did bring him back to the squad I would seriously consider finding another team to support.
Conviction or not, that recording was disgusting. Disgusting enough that as an organisation with female employees and female fans the only reasonable thing to do is terminate the contract.
His reputation is ruined. Key witnesses withdrawing statements just smacks of guilt. He got away with it, I still don't think he deserves to play for united. I'm kinda disgusted at the fact he has made £75k a week for the last year for doing absolutely fuck all apart from waiting to get away with being a piece of shit. Ho hum.
Vaguely remember the audio , something disgusting like just open your legs ! Absolute filth, I don't want him back
It’s actually sicking seeing how many are supporting him and claiming he’s innocent. Along with bs like the audio was deep faked and the photos were photoshopped. Trust me that bleeding and bruising was not digital that was real. I mean Jesus I just saw on a livestream some muppet saying he can change wtf I’d actually be curious to see if there is any common threads among all the ones who claim he’s innocent and want him back.
Agree. The club is a brand that has to stand for something. Guilty of the charge or not, there's no denying that audio clip. From a footballing perspective, he could upset the dressing room and balance of the squad trying to fit him in now.
Generational talent and exactly what we need right now. I can't see a world in which he fills his potential now. I can see why people would want him though
Greenwood is a shit bag but a damn good shitbag natural goal scorer...and we need goals to win games
Big divide I guess, on if you’ve heard the clips, I haven’t and feel that every one deserves to get a 2nd chance, he was and is a child in everything other that drinking age.. but… I haven’t heard the audio and I have a daughter so could well be that I would change my view..
Personally I think he did abuse and rape the girl, but they’ve agreed to pay her off or they’re back together, as is what happens with like 90% of rape cases. At the end of the day, we all heard the tapes. We heard what that little scumbag was saying to that girl. What if that was your sister? Or daughter?
He was pretty disgusting tbh
Genuine question to understand your point: If what we heard him say/do in the recordings = his actions, and fans not wanting him to play for the club anymore = condemnation, then doesn’t fans not wanting to him to play for the club because he abused his girlfriend (according to the audio we all heard) directly demonstrate him being condemned for his actions? If not, what were you referring to? The reason I’m asking is that while I have my opinion, I am genuinely interested to understand the opinions of others as OP intended with the question. Thanks and glory glory man United!
He's not convicted for anything, and he's still under contract to be a man united player, if they don't take him back and he doesn't agree to mutual termination of contract, he might sue them, and they will pay heavily. The other thing they might do is slap a big fine on him for misconduct.
What do you mean “could still be”? The evidence and recording was there. The only “evidence that is not sufficient” is that she pulled the charges. If not, he would be on trial and going to prison.
I only said that because he hasn’t been proven guilty, i know he probably 90% is I just don’t want to jump to conclusions
If any season ticket holders want to leave if he comes back I'll be happy to take the ticket off your hands. Not supporting him, but you have to take these opportunities when they present themselves.
Fair play mate
Objectively he's in the clear. So objectively he could play football again. Subjectively he can fuck off. He isn't welcome any more and united would be taking a huge risk if they let him play again for us. Farm him out on loan to some league 2 side and run his contract down. . United aren't terminating any contract, or doing anything wrong in loaning him out and aren't risking a monumental fan backlash if they let him near the 1st team again. That's legally how this should end, then we can all move on.. hell soon be forgotten.. no way back.
It is innocent until proven guilty, he has not been proven guilty so he is innocent, why should he not get a second chance?
*Just curious to why people want him back even tho he could still be guilty?* And what if he is not? Should we rid one of possibly biggest talents to come through recently, because he might be guilty? Additionally he is a striker, not a winger. And we certainly dont have too many of those.
You say “could” be guilty, which implies you are split in opinion. If he is not guilty then he should be playing for us. He’s a top talent and if he was back and in form he would add strength to the squad. Would likely develop into a world class player. Because he isn’t legally guilty (which is bullshit), he will most likely play for us next year. Assuming 1 year off and all the phycology issues around it didn’t wreck him then he will still be a top talent. One that any team would be happy to have (prior to all this). So it doesn’t matter what we think. If he plays again then he plays again. If that happens he will do good things for the team. I would hope there are tons of counseling requirements though.
Yh I’m very split in opinion if he is actually proven innocent I’ll feel very bad for him as he would have been through a lot and I would love for him to come back but at the moment we just don’t know so I can’t decide what we should do, what I was mainly asking was why do people want him back even if he is guilty
Because why not?
I think a lot of people haven’t seen any clips or recordings and think this is another case of falsely accused? That way is easier to jump like damn he lost 18 months of his life because of a lie and now he will be back! Remember that not everyone is reading all the news about the team, some people barely watch the games tbf. I’m not saying he is innocent or guilty or bla bla. People just jump too easily to conclusions.
I think it's a bitter pill for a lot of people that Arsenal are probably going to win the league with a rapist in their first eleven while we've done the right thing and it's fucked us up. Feels like we've been punished for doing the right thing. Which we have been. But we have at least done the right thing.
I would stop supporting the club if they let him back into the team.
See ya.
your the one who should be fucking off. your a plastic fan, worst fan in existence. would rather support Ronaldo who was absolute shit over ETH and now this. the fact you even think your a fan of the club is pathetic.