By - particleman3
Not done but very close. Remember Sac was also in an exclusive negotiating period and was jumped by Charlotte when Burkle dithered, before he committed, before bailing on the project. Nashville and Miami were both teetering after being confirmed due to stadium issues. Many thought Detroit's dual-Billionaire's and large market made it a done-deal etc. Point being until it is confirmed+ it ain't final.
Garber said LV (or team 30) would not begin by 2023, which leaves Leagues Cup with 47 teams rather than 48. LigaMX could "promote" another team I suppose. Though I suspect that LV Lights relationship with LAFC/MLS may hint that they could potentially be acquired by LV Villains to give the structure of a team to compete in that tournament.
Is Sacramento fully done as a potential expansion team at this point?
No, i.e. if/when MLS goes to 32 or beyond, Sac will be in the mix (I think 32 is the final number). Garber said "Sac will still be a great market". The key, I have found, in predicting the expansion is not who has the most $$$, or the biggest market, etc. It is to follow the stated criteria from MLS, i.e. market dynamics including geographical concerns (less important now), ownership worth, stadium solution (SSS or a great Multi-purpose) and to listen to what Garber says. He telegraphs these things very clearly. If a market is up, down, close, dead, he says it.
Having said all that, Sac will have competition in SD, PHX and others once it gets to that point. I would like to see Sac help anchor a Premier level of the USL.
I actually hope 32 is not the final number.
I hate the NFL approach for MLS. We can find guys for 40 teams. Soccer is different in comparison to other American sports. Soccer has an infinitely bigger supply of players
Yes. I vote for 40 to be the end goal.
Definitely agree, but I think at some point USL mounts a D1 challenge.
why would owners want to dilute tv revenue by adding more teams they will have to stop at some point.
They have to be. Sad really, but no way mls rates them ahead of San Diego at this point.
I don't think San Diego is a good fit for an MLS team. The heavy majority of Soccer fans in SD are Hispanic, with a majority of those from Mexico. Xolos has become the defacto "local" pro soccer team, and immigrants that had favorite Liga MX teams will stick with them, and can even see said team play Xolos in TJ, just over the border.
Basically. For 32 markets like Detroit, Tampa, Phoenix, Cleveland, and Baltimore will all leap them if the money is there.
Tampa Bay, Phoenix, nor Detroit jumped Sacramento before. Remember Sac made the finish line when expansion was to 28, but Whitman pulled out. Then Sac tied with St Louis for exclusive negotiations for places 28 and 29 (effectively pushing expansion to 30). Then Sac was actually announced. It isn't only about the market, it is a combination of market, ownership and stadium.
You'd think if Garber could cherrypick the locations, Detroit and maybe Phoenix would be the picks?
Cleveland, Tampa, and Baltimore are all too close to current MLS cities so I don’t think the league goes there.
They did announce Cleveland as an expansion, once upon a time. Very similar to what happened to Sacramento.
San Jose and Sacramento are almost the same distance as Tampa and Orlando and closer together than Cleveland and Columbus.
Cleveland and Columbus sports are always grouped together though, none of the four major leagues have both a Columbus and Cleveland team, let alone three Ohio teams for that reason. Adding Cleveland would probably lead to a heavily diluted fanbase between both the Crew and the Cleveland franchise, at least as far as television viewership and merchandise sales go.
I actually want Tampa to come to the league if we go to 40. Tampa has some great history.
If the Rays fail, there's always the Ybor city site for a stadium. MLS can really benefit by acknowledging some of the old brands of the past.
I would love it if Cosmos, Rowdies were in the league.
EDIT: I don't really care about Cleveland and Baltimore. Neither city has a soccer presence.
Cleveland doesn't have a soccer presence? No, Cleveland doesn't have a soccer TEAM (sorry npsl you're not real) but soccer has a large fanbase in Northeast Ohio that would turn out for a downtown stadium with a USL-C team.
Okay, maybe I was wrong. Columbus covers Cleveland anyways as a market. I also admit personally that I don't think Ohio should get 3 teams. It may dilute the fanbase in the state. There's only so many teams to go around. Especially in a state of 11 million compare to Texas' nearly 30 million.
Baltimore is covered by DC.
California, Texas, and Florida I get having 3+ teams in their state. Those states are huge with the people they get. Tampa has a layered history with soccer that I feel should be acknowledged. And I don't feel people in Tampa necessarily follow Orlando City.
In my opinion, a 40 team MLS would include 5 teams in California, 4 in Texas, and 3 in Florida.
>Baltimore is covered by DC.
thats a kick in the face to baltimore residents
They’d go to Pittsburgh before Cleveland if they wanted another team in that general area.
Pittsburgh in my opinion is a potentially fantastic soccer market.
Pennsylvania seems to be really defined by the western and eastern parts.
Pittsburgh and Philly would be an awesome rivlary.
I’d say that’s very unlikely for Baltimore (too close to DC), Cleveland (no way they’re putting 3 teams in Ohio unless expanding to 36-40), and Detroit (can’t seem to get anything going in terms of a stadium + weird fan dynamics with soccer fans in the city).
Tampa and Phoenix tho will be real contenders, Phoenix being more serious if I had to bet. Although I would love to see that St Pete MLS stadium… the renderings were so unique compared to other MLS stadiums.
Phoenix and Las Vegas make too much sense on a geological map. I think it's a must for the league to put teams there considering how both cities keep exploding in population.
It'll also ease a lot of travel for the Western Conference.
I envision a 2 twenty league system and a then a cup style tournament between them two.
I've thought of something kinda similar.
If there is ever pro/rel, I hope we can have inter-conference pro/rel. Two 20 team conference, divided by a top division of 10 and lower division of 10. 2 up 2 down each season.
The top 4 of each conference in division 1 goes to 8 team single elimination MLS Cup Playoff.
Haven’t heard anything about Baltimore. Doesn’t make the most sense with how close they are to DC.
no way ohio gets 3 teams garber didnt even want 2
>LigaMX could "promote" another team I suppose.
I guess it could be Venados FC as Jeff Luhnow bought the team (I don't know if they confirmed it or not). Well assuming that Liga MX does not relocate another team as always
I wonder if Vegas has quickly gone from under utilized for sports pro teams to over utilized for sports with this being the 3rd in the market.
Whatever it takes to get Nashville out of the Western Conference though!
What all the major sports realized at once is A. Americans don’t care about the gambling and in fact have embraced it and everything that goes with Vegas like the stigma you’d see 20 years ago.
B. Vegas as a city has grown big enough to have support for their own team.
And C. every team in any league will have fans ready to go to Vegas for an awesome away day/weekend. I know In Chicago they had some huge giveaways to go see the bears play Vegas. And had radio shows from hotels there.
Fully agree on C.
Away days are the best days, after all.
(Especially when you’re an NYCFC fan and they’re all away days amirite)
I don't think Vegas is a slam dunk market.
To your points, B) Vegas is the 29th largest metro behind Phoenix, Detroit, San Diego, Tampa, Baltimore, and San Antonio, all who don't have teams. Its the 40th largest media market. Can it support a team? Sure, but is it getting saturated with other sports teams and are there better markets? Possibly. Population growth was strong in 2010-2020, but the rate has decline significantly since 2000 and given future climate and water-related issues there could be potential long term issues.
And to the traveling point, MLS fans simply don't travel like NFL fans. Maybe the MLS team picks up random visitors and a few away fans to help bolster attendance, but that seems like a riskier strategy than simply picking a solid market where you think local households alone could support the team.
Vegas is obviously going to get a team because big money investors are behind it. I have nothing wrong with Vegas having a team, I want every city that wants a team to have a team, the more the merrier, but I do have long term concerns about how successful that team will be from an attendance perspective.
I think you are correct, at least for the first time for an away game it's a built in excuse to go. Personally not a fan of Vegas but it would make it a draw for the first couple years.
D. Every young single athlete will want to play there — so endorsements and money will follow.
Good for the league too
I also wonder this, and I grew up here. Hockey is now a thing in Vegas, and the NFL has a wide enough fan base that people come here for games — not that they wouldn’t for MLS, but the USL games attendance is dropping. And with the talk of baseball and basketball, the strip is feeling very crowded after just five years of pro sports. Lastly, hockey attendance plummeted after a big trade and slump start to the season. It picked up, but how would a new MLS franchise with a likely so-so starting record fare? I’m not certain. I’d personally trade football for futball, but that’s just me.
Not from Vegas, so I have no clue BUT... it always kinda felt like the Knights were designed to be the team for Vegas visitors not Vegas locals; I can't imagine locals want to go to the DJ club stadium and pregame at NY/NY for 40 fucking games a season.
I would think having something off strip that caters a bit more to locals, with a shuttle running from the strip for away fans would work out really well. Curious locals/natives think a non-strip focused team might be the way to go.
It may have set out that way, but they’ve been embraced by locals, especially after Oct 1 shooting and the wild ride of the first year. It’s not as much of a pain to get to as the Raider’s games — I’ve been to allegiant stadium once (to see the Sounders), and to hockey at T-Mobile a few times. We pregame at local bars, not on the strip. The stadium atmosphere and music is no different than hockey at Staples in LA.
There aren’t many roads though. Having two stadiums that close is starting to cause an issue. Having a third or fourth would be a massive problem which is why locals talk about potential new expansions being off strip.
That's always been my knee jerk take on Vegas teams. They are just there for a tourist attraction and I forget that a lot of people actually live there. I also don't get the hype for Vegas and have 0 intention of ever visiting so my bias thought it almost always "who cares about Vegas?"
They'll likely get a MLB team, too. A's to Vegas and Rays to Nashville is a very strong possibility right now.
I don't see Nashville making a serious push for MLB honestly. There is an ownership group but with the new soccer stadium, big Titans renovations planned, and Nascar track renovations I don't think the city will pony up the amount for an MLB team also.
Rays won't get a new stadium and will almost certainly move. They've got to go somewhere. Charlotte or Nashvegas are the obvious places.
Rays are going to Montreal.
Bring back the Expos!
Tampa could really take advantage if the Rays fail. The Rays have been speculated for the Ybor City sight for a while now for a new stadium.
If the Rays don't take that spot, I could a motivated Rowdies group claim that spot to build a stadium.
Would they not just go with the 20k Al Lang redevelopment that has been knocking around for a while?
> A's to Vegas
Hopefully that's no happening...
Man, fuck Oakland moving another team to Vegas.
Send the A's to Portland so that the Mariners can actually have a decent away leg once in a while.
With that said, Vegas can obtain an NBA or MLS (or another pro sports team) for all I care. I just really don't want the A's to go there when Portland could be a gold mine of fans. I understand that traveling fans would bring in good attendance for MLB, but I personally think Portland is a better destination.
> Send the A's to Portland so that the Mariners can actually have a decent away leg once in a while.
I don't think Portland's supposed MLB ownership group ever really wanted a team here to be honest. They are proposing a stadium in just about the worst area imaginable. And the city isn't really gonna help em out (which is a good thing).
Personally, I still want us to get an NHL team at some point, but for now we're fine with the Timbers, Thorns and Blazers. Could Seattle maybe work on getting the Sonics back though?
>Could Seattle maybe work on getting the Sonics back though?
Lol, like we haven't been trying since the owner sold the team. Definitely still wanted in the city and with getting Climate Pledge Arena, it only made fans want the Sonics to return more.
Transplant who lives around Portland, I just want to see the Mariners without having to drive up to Seattle, much like when the Sounders visit the Timbers. Wpuld be a nice rivalry, plus I think portland could support and MLB team. Though, maybe not in the area where MLB2PDX wants to put the stadium.
I wish the Montreal talk would die in exchange for an MLB team in Vanvouver.
Seattle, Portland and Vancouver in the PNW, is a great trio.
Second this since Toronto coming to Seattle turns T-Mobile Park into Rogers Centre West. Pretty good evidence that y'all could support your own team (and not make me feel like a visiting fan in my own city, lol)
SkyDome West* please respect our wishes and never call it that again /s
It would also help justify to my GF that I want to travel to all the MLB stadiums
Definitely a great goal. I'm way behind the 8 ball on that one.
Ya I've done 9 so far, I'll probably end up going to Seattle during a TFC away game and do both since I don't see another MLB coming soon in the region.
I've only gotten to 4 (5 if you count the Kingdome). But T-Mobile is a great park. Awesome food throughout.
A's are closer than ever to a stadium in Oakland, so not sure likely is the right term to use for that. They're making progress and I see it more likely they stay in Oakland.
Idk about that just yet. Now if MLB and/or NBA happens as well then yes it will be problematic. MLB is sooooooo many games.
NBA might be happening soon, Silver was quoted saying so last year and rumors have been swirling this month saying that Seattle ans Vegas are up next. MLB is also a strong possibility if the As dont figure things out in Oakland.
Oakland losing two teams to Las Vegas is actually criminal lmao
I'd be tight, I have strong feelings about New Orleans after losing our original NBA team and an NBA all-star game to that place so I can imagine how someone from Oakland probably feels about Vegas.
The Raiders were lost about four cities before Vegas ever came into the picture (because Jerry Jones didn't want them in Austin).
This would be a bit more direct though.
“Fuck any city that gets an NBA team before Seattle.”
-Every Seattleite I Know That Still Cares about NBA
“NBA is fucking dead to me.”
-Every other Seattleite
“Fuck OKC Thunder” - both groups
I know your pain fr. While nobody bought the Hornets with secret plans to move to NOLA, our city/citizens and George Shinn (OG Hornets owner) were beefing over some sexual assault allegations iirc. City was willing to build a new arena but wanted him to sell, so he moved the team to NOLA and that was that. We just got lucky with Bob Johnson coming through shortly after and then being able to claim our old name way later. Losing a team is lame and I wouldnt wish that feeling on anyone, hopefully they do right by Seattle soon.
And here I am just hoping that any of the other major 4 sports leagues will remember Portland exists. Seattle will have all of the big 4 as well as MLS by 2030 there’s nothing to worry about. I’d literally kill somebody to get an NHL or NFL team here in Portland.
How do you feel about MLB?
Not a baseball guy personally, but I’d take it if they wanted to come to town. Kicking back with a beer and a hotdog and watching a game isn’t a bad way to spend an afternoon.
Yeah I don't like baseball much either but the in-person experience ain't bad. Seems like NHL and MLB would be the most likely leagues to expand to Portland before the NFL would though.
"Come on, NBA, do it for Kris (Sonics Guy)!" -Tacomans
Oakland A's fans are convinced that the Las Vegas deal is dead and that a new Oakland stadium is all but set in stone. I think they're delusional, their owner has put a bid on the Tropicana hotel.
Every time I hear something about the stadium being close to being finalized, I swing on over to the [Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Ballpark) and refresh myself on how longggggggg that timeline of "close to being finalized" is.
MLS will be fine unless MLB comes in. And I think NBA is more likely than MLB at this point.
NHL and NBA will cannibalize each other and compete directly pretty much.
> NHL and NBA will cannibalize each other and compete directly pretty much.
Works for 14 other cities + Seattle should have both anyways.
Half of both of the leagues have no problem, I think Vegas can too.
MLB is pretty likely.
MLS would be the worst fit. We don't have enough travelling support as is. If they put them in the Dome to start it will be too cavernous. Maybe a 25k stadium downtown by fremont would be the best fit. That said, I'd love to see MLS Cup played every year in Vegas. I think baseball will flop too. 3 game weeknight series are a tough sell in many markets. NBA and NFL are the two best fits. But maybe with all this added traffic the Fountainbleu finally opens.
Put them in east Vegas.
The Las Vegas metro area has a higher population than the Nashville metro area (2,265,461 vs 1,989,519). Vegas had a 16.10% population increase from 2010-2020 according to Wikipedia compared to 20.86% for Nashville so they’re growing really quickly, too.
Nashville seems to handle 3 teams well enough and Vegas has the whole gambling and entertainment culture built in so I don’t think they have any problems filling seats.
They were in consideration for the next mlb expansion but im not sure if anything is coming of that. Honestly though nothing has really been proven in terms of longevity. The raiders have a regional fan base from back when they were in la still around. The knights were the first team for the city which drew a lot of local support and interest initially.
I think youre right about being over utilized. Especially since the mls is an up and coming league and a new team is already at risk for failing. Im not sure theyll be able to sustain another team period but another team this quick seems certain to fail especially with a small dedicated market.
Not to mention that the Oakland A's are threatening to move there if they don't get a new stadium with favorable terms.
For comparison, Austin is a larger TV market than Vegas.
MLS made this happen. I know someone close to this and MLS has willed this into existence. Believe me or don’t, but notice how almost everything regarding this expansion team has come from MLS? They put this together.
So now is the real question, are we going to expand further to 32 or nah?
Agreed. I'm of the camp that I don't really see why it couldn't continue growing. Soccer isn't like other sports, there's a genuine international market for talent. If the money is there, we can continue having expansion and just have a rotating schedule where some teams don't play some cross-conference teams every year.
In fact, with the Leagues Cup starting in 2023, I don't even see the "not playing every team in a season" as a real issue anymore. Teams can have high profile encounters in the cup.
If The MLS Expands past 30 I Would Love to see a 4th Canadian Franchise through I don't think it would happen
I doubt Canadaian Soccer Association would ever allow that, they are pushing the CPL. In fact, I won't be surprised if at some point in the future they try to convince/force the Canadian MLS teams to join CPL.
Won't ever happen
It could happen decades from now. Mostly from MLS and USSF buying out the three team to give franchises to three American markets.
The way Toronto and Vancouver is growing compared to other American markets makes the idea of MLS leaving those markets asinine. I'm sure NBA regrets leaving Vancouver greatly.
Montréal is a better target because of Saputo, but even then, people forget that Montréal is one of the biggest cities on the continent.
I think MLS also likes the idea of being in the Montréal market because soccer is so much more international than the other major sports here. It's a connection to the French soccer world, which is the fastest growing demographic for the sport worldwide.
Decades, sure, MLS could fold, NHL could have 50 teams, anything can be up in the air, but in the reasonable horizon that would interest us as viewers and fans (say, next 20 years) I would say it's exceptionally unlikely the Canadian balance of MLS teams will change.
That's not because if MLS pushes up to 40 there aren't Canadian cities that actually start looking more attractive than American ones like Ottawa, Calgary, Edmonton, but those are firmly in the hands of the CPL. Unless CPL's salaries relative strength gets very close to MLS someday I don't see any of the 3 current ones leaving to join them.
I don't think there will be a 4th Canadian Team but I don't think it will be because the CSA blocks it rather I just don't think the MLS is Intrested
Using Basketball as a comparison the CPL is Soccers Version of the CEB/NBL while the MLS is the NBA
The Current Canadian MLS Teams wont be forced into the CPL it would be against the CSA's interest's to drastically weaken those 3 clubs
I think MLS would be really interested in an Ottawa team.
I disagree with you about the CSA though. I don't think they will allow anymore Canadian MLS clubs.
Ottawa is to far East and to close to both Montreal and Toronto but unlike Calgary and Edmonton the only other suitable Options in Canada it does have a Suitable Stadium in TD Place where as Commonwealth Stadium is far to big and McMahon Stadium is a rotting corpse
CSA Greatly Benefits from the MLS As it Stands I doubt they would actively block a 4th MLS Franchise, CPL is just going to keep doing its thing one of the next 3 expansion Cities is Vancouver a City with a MLS Franchise
No really sure with the location in the East (close to Montreal and Toronto) being a problem. Heck we have NER, NYFC, RedBull, PHL and DCA all within a 5 to 6 hour drive...that being said, unless some transformational change to the league (i.e. jumping into the 40 number level) I do not see MLS adding an additional Canadian team.
Conference Balance by having 2 Canadian Teams out East and 2 Out West plus Calgary and Edmonton are bigger then Ottawa anyway through Ottawa does have an Advantage in the Stadium Department but while I want a 4th Canadian Team I Agree that I don't see it happening anytime soon
Ottawa is in the Toronto and Montreal TV market so that rules them out. It's never going to happen but if it did, I think it would be Calgary in a new stadium.
I would be extremely surprised if that happened.
There should be two distinct leagues, based on current East and West conferences, both at the same level. Give them each balanced schedules. Crown champions based on record. Inter-league play for friendlies and of course the MLS cup.
I'm fine with no relegation, but as it stands there has been 16 teams added in 16 years. We're growing insanely fast. The scheduling will become more and more unfair as we approach 40 teams, which could easily happen within the next 15 years.
I hope that never happens. Being in the same league of teams like LAFC or Timbers and never playing them just doesn't sound appealing.
I agree 100000%
They would compete in tournaments like the MLS Cup. They would also each have berths in CONCACAF. It would become a privilege to play the big clubs in the other league. I don't see this as a bad thing at all. Just a natural evolution, lest we have 40 clubs which is twice the size of any other top league on the planet.
With 32 teams, the league has to consider expanding the regular season to 38 matches to keep a somewhat balance schedule.
If it’s a 16-16 West/East Conference split, each team can play a home+away in-conference games (30 matches), then 8 of the 16 teams in an cross-conference matchup and alternating to the other 8 teams the next season (totaling 38 matches).
If the league goes to a 8-teams 4 division setup, that’s 14 home+away in-division matchups. Then play the other 24 teams in the league once a year (Totaling 38 matches).
Staying at only 34 games doesn’t work well unless the intention is to only play the other teams in the league once (31 games). Doesn’t work well, especially if the league wants to grow and advertise marquee Rivalry games. Can’t quickly and organically grow those rivalry matches if the teams only meet once a year.
The league would never cut three games, but 31 games for 32 teams would make for better soccer and less schedule congestion for other tournaments.
38 games causes a whole host of other issues, but schedule congestion is a big one. With Leagues Cup with Liga MX now going to be a thing that everyone participates in, that subtracts at least 3 weeks from the regular season.
At the very earliest, with a 38 game schedule and keeping the Spring-Fall calendar, the regular season needs to start mid-February. Probably preferably right after the week of the Super Bowl. If we’re shooting a Final Thanksgiving Weekend (consider how highly viewed/rated that one playoff game was), the regular season would need to end sometime early to Mid-October before the October International Break. With all the summer international break and breaks for various tournaments, the math I did
First 2 or 3 rounds of the playoffs could occur after the Oct. Break but before the Nov. Break and the finals occurring after the Nov. Break, which would be the week (and maybe the week before) of Thanksgiving, this also depends on when these international break land on the calendar because I believe the end of the November break is the weekend before Thanksgiving in 2023 but it’s two weekends before in 2024. (2022 is weird with the World Cup in the Winter).
I did the math on it and a MLS team that qualifies for the CCL and wins it all, wins the Leagues Cup, plays in the Champeones Cup, and wins the MLS Cup Playoffs would be looking at 70 games in a calendar year while a team that qualified for none of the tournaments would be only looking at about 50 matches. At the minimum with the scheduled I outlined, each team would probably be looking at about 10-12 midweek regular season games (38 matches out of an available 27-ish weeks for regular season).
All this means MLS would need to increase the cap a lot and increase roster size for more depth and player rotations with so many games.
Those 8 inter-league matches are unfair in a tight title race. If you luck out and get a bunch of bottom table clubs from the other conference, that is a crap ton of points to overtake the shield race. I would rather they only meet in the MLS Cup. Like our version of the FA cup, only the leagues share the top of the FIFA US pyramid.
32 teams is too bloated for a single league already. Most top table leagues have 10-24 clubs. I think its fine to have two top leagues in the States/Canada, though, because we are comparable to the size of all of Europe.
We already don’t play every cross-conference team, this would be no different.
On top of easily expanding to 40+ clubs, another benefit of having separate leagues would be to balance the schedule. You would have true champions in each league. All clubs could still compete for the MLS cup which is highly coveted and offers an additional CCL berth.
Agreed, even now at 28 teams, its getting very crowded. But I don't think the league would want to give up those coastal match-ups (ie LA vs NYC), hence why I think the league would be reluctant to consider a strong East-West split with no inter-division matches. However, if it were to be done, I would even say it would be possible for an additional 4 to 6 teams/city to join the league after 32 for an 18 (34 matches) or 19-team (36 matches) Conference only playing home and away against each other with each conference not meeting till Playoffs. It would be unprecedented to have 36 to 38 teams in a league here in the US/Canada, but possible as the traditional argument of "too many teams diluting the talent pool/play" is moot in soccer the talent pool is global. Although there are definitely a whole host of other issues of having so many teams though other than talent.
This is the way
It would make a lot more sense for 38 games to play everyone in the league once and the other 7 teams in your 8 team division home and away.
That’s a hell of an idea. I’ll be chewing on that one for a while.
I think they for sure end up going to 32. I think they want to become the NFL of soccer. Which I am totally on board with.
Probably. It’s a nice number. You can play every team once and the 7 teams in your division twice. 38 games isn’t too many games. 8 team playoff. Could work.
MLS needs 36 teams
anything other than 36 will not work, something will always be missing
We need 36 teams, playing 35 unique matches.
28-30-32-34 you will always have to repeat games, which is already clear 90% of us hate it.
32 works fine. You could
Play every team once, and your division home and away. It would work great.
32 is totally fine, assume 4 divisions, play your own division home/away - 14 games, play everyone else once - 24 games, total of 38 games which seems reasonable with top 4 from each division moving to single elimination playoffs.
32 is 100% happening. Phoenix and San Diego. Book it now.
This sounds like it is basically done. Final touches are on how many hundreds of millions for the expansion fee.
Finally down to the one part of the game the league cares about.
Some might argue the only part
Don Garber is going in to take a nap. When he wakes, if the money's on the table he'll know the league has a new team. If it isn't, he'll know it doesn't.
Awesome. I've never been to Vegas but I would 100% make an away trip there. Go gamble a little bit, catch some shows, try out new restaurants, and then go to the Atlanta/Vegas game.
I look forward to a future Las Vegas FC/SC or FC/SC Las Vegas vs Sacremento Republic showdown in USOC that mostly people in this subreddit (myself included) will be super siked to see.
Count me in, having called both places home.
And if I ever leave Vegas, Sac is the only place I'll move to. Barring fantasmic wealth.
Why does it have to be Las Vegas FC. Can't we just give these generic names a rest? Unfortunately, what you say will probably happen.
This bid has already said it would likely be the Las Vegas Villains because they also own Aston Villa.
Yeah I'm so glad this one won out and not the one that was gonna name it heroes
Foley's a good owner just sucks at naming things
I thought it was pretty clear from the post title that it was going to be Las Vegas Football Group... was hoping for Group vs Crew
What a Joke.
Why it makes sense for a mafia city. Plus Villa is awesome.
Would they get an indoor stadium or retractable roof?
nah fuck that. On top of a hotel like the NY NY Roller Coaster.
Im all for the Vegas Golden Boots.
Sad. We can’t even get a team in Miami.
Honestly has disaster written all over it. I hope I'm wrong.
How will it be a disaster? The Las Vegas Lights were actually getting good attendance despite being a complete shitshow both on and off the field.
If the Lights were even somewhat competent, Vegas in the USL would have been a huge success.
I think in particular fans of teams close by (LA Galaxy, LAFC, Colorado Rapids, RSL, Seattle Sounders, Portland Timbers, SJ Earthquakes, if ever Phoenix gets a team) would prop up attendance too given I think fans of those teams would schedule cheap trips to catch games and spend a day or two in Vegas then bounce.
Definitely. In fact, I've been going to watch the Las Vegas MLS team every year for quite some time now. Still haven't found where they play yet, but I figure if I try enough casinos I'll find it soon enough.
Tourists aren’t gonna go to MLS games
A decent amount of Sounders fans went to the leagues cup final in Vegas. I could easily see lots of fans going for a weekend and catching a game.
Nashville’s also a tourist hot spot but I wouldn’t say there’s ever been a large contingent of away fans, outside of our first match with Atlanta. I think the assumption that away fans would boost attendance in a meaningful way is pretty flawed.
* side bitch to a European team (they've trademarked Villains as the name and it's Villa's ownership group...)
* market that is quickly in danger of oversaturation
* not a particularly big grassroots movement to bring a team there
Vegas really reminds me of early 90s Miami - a tourist hotspot with a good population to work with that got oversaturated with sports way too fast. Within like 5 years you had the Panthers, Heat, and Marlins in addition to the Dolphins (who'd been there for years) plus a big-name college team in the Hurricanes.
Vegas got the Knights (who were good right away which prolongs the honeymoon), then the Raiders within a few years (and their home games are already half-visiting fans), if the NBA expands they're certainly getting a team and the A's have been looking at moving there, though they're making progress in Oakland for once.
It'll be a fantastic away day, but I have serious, serious doubts about this project.
Las Vegas having a soccer team is much more advantageous than having an MLB or NBA team
For the simple fact that soccer is the most popular sport in the world, and that will be one more reason for tourists from around the world to go to Vegas.
I don't think foreign tourists would go out of their way to catch an MLS game. They'd be more inclined to watch an NBA or NFL game IMO.
That said, I do think a Las Vegas MLS team could draw well both locally and also from fans of teams either in neighboring states or Western states that are a cheap flight away, who would be down to watch a game and make a weekend or trip out of the game and spend a few days in Vegas besides the game. Think LA Galaxy, LAFC, Portland, Seattle, Colorado, RSL, San Jose and a hypothetical Phoenix MLS team. Those fanbases would travel, whether organized or not, to Las Vegas games and help the draw as well.
East Coast teams less so since there is no MLS team with a national fanbase like NFL teams.
As an LA Galaxy season ticket holder, I can tell you 100%, foreign tourists do come to Galaxy games while they are on vacation. I've met Irish, English, Japanese, Korean, etc foreign tourists that came out specifically to see a soccer game in Los Angeles. Of course this is probably because of the players we had; Beckham, Donovan, Keane, Zlatan, Chicharito, etc.
Vegas is an international vacation destination; if they can get a couple big name DP's, foreign tourists will come.
Vegas is FULL of European tourists, which always cracks me up... why come to see our dirty knock-offs of Venice, Rome and Paris when you can take a train to the real thing?
I wouldn't call a 2-3 major professional teams city an over-saturation. Sure the Raiders and Golden Knights are doing well there but so can soccer. There are some MLS teams that are in four, five major sports teams cities and they are doing fine.
Sure, MLB and NBA might play there, but I think the latter is focus on bringing back the SuperSonics.
I don’t have anything against Vegas, and I also have nothing *for* Sacramento in this dialogue, but it does bother me that a well-established, existing, and successful Republic franchise will be essentially replaced by a new club in a city with a shit ton of money. That’s gotta hurt for Republic supporters who have been some of the best in the lower leagues for a LONG time.
The big money backer for Republic backed out. MLS didn't have any choice. Look at all the hand wringing about clubs who don't spend on this sub and that they hold the league back. Republic wouldn't have the money to compete in MLS without a huge amount of cash coming to the club.
MLS made a hard choice a long time ago about the Rochester Rhinos that turned out to be the correct one. It's not about supporters. It's about owners. Even the USL has found that out.
Let’s not kid ourselves, MLS will make millions more in expansion fees and have a team in Vegas. I’m sure this is their preferred outcome.
MLS teams make more in TV, sponsors, merchandise, fan support revenue, etc than expansion fees. Expansion fees are an one time down payment into dilution of shares of the league.
And Vegas is more valuable than Sacramento in all of those fields to MLS.
Phoenix Rising > Vegas
Next time for sure
They’ll be 31 or 32 along with San Diego.
I know it's 3 months old, but I prefer 32 be a Midwest team. The league can still push for more representation in that region.
I might be a loner, but I would be cool if Indy were to get in the league. Obviously, the ideal is Detroit. But the situation is a bit awkward.
Fuck. I hate Vegas teams.
Ugh. No thank you.
Aston Villa’s new feeder club.
Ahh a feeder club for AVFC
Doesn't mean a thing, just ask Sacramento... ahem
The difference is they have a billionaire.
That rule only applies to Sacramento, unfortunately.
Can’t wait for their first European signing to die in the summer
They’re almost certainly going to play in the Raiders stadium, which is domed and climate controlled. The Gold Cup final was held there and looked good on TV.
Edens has said he doesn't want to play in Allegiant. Foley wanted that for his bid, but has since backed out.
And NYCFC said they didn't want to be in Yankee Stadium long term, and Miami said they'd have a stadium in Miami by now.
See a trend?
Comparing New York and Miami land to Vegas is foolish. It's a desert and there's lots of it to build whatever you want.
Not to mention they already have a place to build it. Edens owns a company that is building a high speed rail to LA and the land that was bought for that is big enough for the stadium and the rail stop so it sounds like they're gonna do that
Sitting on the sides in that stadium for a soccer game was a bit fucking annoying. Went there for the leagues cup final and anytime the ball got close to the touchline I had to look at the damn jumbotron to see the play on the field because the damn wall is way too damn high.
Such a garbage town. One of the worst places in the US.
Please dont name it something Fc .....please dont name it something FC.......please dont name it something FC....las Vegas desert raiders or something other then something FC...why is mls soccer culture so cringy?
It’s funny you think that is cringy. When we think your names are cringy.
Euro names are lame as hell.
It’s not lame at all. It’s represents your city or town. America is about franchises and not about the area
Move San Jose to Vegas you cowards
I nominate Carson for that move, LAFC already owns that city.
Hopefully this happens. If my map reading skills are correct, should cement us (SKC) and STL in the same conference.
Why exactly should Vegas get a club before Phoenix?
Vegas teams are corny like Ed Hardy shirts and Trucker hats
Ownership group, money, stadium, commitment.
There's all great platitudes for Phoenix but they'll be jumped by LV if LV presents something real and Phoenix does not
Have you seen how the two cities support their teams? It's like night and day. Yeah places like Phoenix, Houston, and Miami are massive market cities, but they have garbage support for their local teams.
Vegas is the only city I've been to on the west coast where they live and breath their hockey team. Not only does Vegas support their local teams well, anyone who has a team there doesn't have to worry about selling season seats because if they can't sell them to the locals then they can sell them to the casinos.
People always ask me what I'll do when the Golden Knights go into rebuild mode. I only have one answer.
I'll go to more games because I will be able to afford to.