By - AeronReformed
Some very tough decisions need to be made next summer when it comes to moving players on. Klopp is going to have to be ruthless for the rebuilding to start. It fucking hurts seeing players that I adore looking uninterested out there on the pitch, but these players need to be moved on if we want to get back to where this great club should be.
It’s just so frustrating. Every time we play against a ‘rival’ or even a much smaller side, their whole fan base and club get extremely up for it. Those same sides are the ones that absolutely spread their cheeks for city inside 25 minutes.
This bullshit is spouted on here too often. City are just miles better than everyone. It's absolutely nothing to do with teams not trying
Do teams get riled up for the game against city like they do against us? Definitely not. Call it bullshit all you want but it’s just factual. They play city expecting to get railroaded 5-0. We were better than city. Miles better in fact if you go back a few years. We’ve let it ourselves go unfortunately
City are simply better man. We weren't saying stuff like this when we were actually good
I’m not disputing that city are better. I do however blame the owners for not strengthening through summer. We can’t compete while city are able to spend how they do every window and it’s just becoming a farmers league at this point. If we can’t compete against them, no one can
I agree with that. We should still be doing better this season with the players and the coach we have but yeah ultimately competing with City season after season with how they operate is impossible
We were. The same thing was happening last season, teams falling to shite inside 20 mins ending up 4 down meanwhile there’s fucking pyro on the pitch n all kinds whenever we went there.
Glad we aren't wasting another record breaking season this season. No one is coming close to City.
Arsenal? I know they will probably lose steam, but they are only ones looking close at the moment. But with the Haaland express chugging along at full steam ahead, I don’t see anyone stopping them. But this was kinda assumed when he was signed.
Sucks, but it is fascinating and kinda exciting to see how much he scores.
watkins is pretty bad, in FM his decisions should be no higher than 10
None of em have any conviction in front of goal man...
I feel sorry for Stevie for having to work with a bum like Watkins. They just cannot score.
Heh he scored a first-half hat-trick against us
Yep. Now watch Trossard do all of fuck all for the rest of the season now.
The first step in reinventing ourselves is simple: FSG OUT.
The club is worth like 35-40% of FSG’s overall valuation. Very, very unlikely they’d choose to sell.
What do you think is fsg's end game? They seem to be buying more clubs in different sports, that means further investment in those teams since they wouldn't want to start off their ownership with no investment, that means probably less investment for us.
If the top four is their aim, that also looks like slipping away if we have a similar transfer window to one we had this summer. Spending 100 mill plus on one player isn't going to fill in all the holes in the squad.
They don't take no debt, nor do they put any of their own money in the club, our revenue isn't going to be enough to compete.
If they aren't going to sell us soon, then what's the point of even buying us in the first place. We are worth more now, than ever would be going forward.
Where has the idea of us spending 100m on one player come from? If it’s Bellingham then these rumours need to stop. It makes no sense for us to splash it on him and it makes no sense for him not to walk into a team paying 200k plus winning trophies each year
>Where has the idea of us spending 100m on one player come from?
The club has been suggesting this for multiple seasons now, the whole of last season was about spending only on elite players above a certain range of money and not getting in 40 mill squad players, that was reason given not to invest in the midfield
Whilst I remember Klopp saying he has specific targets and will not settle just to go back in the following summer, I don’t remember the club stating they need to be a certain value or range of money
That's the key the club never states anything openly only through their mouthpieces.
Pearce wrote in an Athletic article that Klopp was stopped from getting in players in 40 mill range towards the end of the transfer window and were actively chasing Touchmani who would have cost around 80 mill before he went to Madrid and Bellingham who would easily cost around 100 mill.
It's an open secret at this point we want Bellingham who will cost 100 mill plus in the upcoming summer window.
Everyone wants Bellingham in the next summer window.
Yes, I know that. You asked where this notion of spending 100 mill on one player comes from, it comes from wanting Bellingham and Tchouameni before that. There were rumours of club binding for Valverde as well, another player in that price bracket.
Simple- wait for the market to stabilize and IPO.
Why ipo? Tgey can just sell to a sheik and demand wgatever. They will propably make 20x on their investment
Because then they still own it. Clearly the goal is to create a cross nation sports conglomeration, selling defeats that purpose.
They could have done that already if they wanted to. The market isn't going to stabilize anytime soon with the war still raging on, then you might have a different conflict with china looking towards Taiwan next.
And what does IPO means for us exactly? united level of investment each season? I don't care about their interests, I want to know what you think will happen with us.
My simple answer is they are waiting for the stand to finish and sell us at our highest value, with the team looking on their way down this must be the best time.
They could have but the club wasn’t worth near as much pre-pandemic as it is now and the valuation wasn’t likely what they would have wanted. What does it mean for us? Nothing really, it’s their money not the clubs. I really do not see them selling, we’re simply too big a part of their overall portfolio.
>They could have but the club wasn’t worth near as much pre-pandemic
Thats why I said they will wait for the stand to finish. That probably adds a nice evaluation to the fee they are seeking, if you are building a house you wont sell it midway now would you? You would wait for the paint to have dried and the house looking pretty enough to be sold to the highest bidder.
>I really do not see them selling, we’re simply too big a part of their overall portfolio.
I get that, but if they are going to be struggling to finance multiple sporting projects it would make sense to sell us to free up enough cash and resources for them. As I said I don't the clubs evaluation improving with how we are run at the moment and growing discontent in their two big fanbases in Redsox and Liverpool.
They don’t need to finance anything though, that’s the point. Each sub-entity pays it’s own way. Discontent is largely irrelevant so long as TV rights keep going up and commercial contracts keep being signed. An IPO also produces a possible fuck ton of cash without giving up the asset. IPOs are typically in the 10-20% range, so we’re talking something like $2B-4B potentially being raised without having to give up anything.
So the worst case scenario is for them to start taking dividends now. Atleast Glazers spend in the window.
If they went IPO, I’d imagine they would, yeah. Potentially tens of millions a year in more or less perpetuity plus the ability to sell off chunks at a time and make further tens of millions at very low (relative) tax rates. It’s a long game for them I think, otherwise they would have sold years ago. Maybe I’m wrong, guess we’ll see over time what happens.
villa are dire
let's get douglas luiz (poor dude has to gesture the CBs to push up) and kamara out of there
Edit - CBs dawdling on the ball, midfield getting the angle of passes wrong
Edit- brainless performance
Buendía is the player we should get from Villa
I am not so sure. I have seen him
he is a liability in defense, often waits for the ball, losing it and doesn't track back
Watkins got to be one of the worst finishers in the league.
Bro converts like Nunez but gets less chances than Nunez. Don’t forget who we have
Nunez hasn't even played ten games for those comparisons
Except against us.
Unless he’s playing us then he’s prime Haaland
The scary thing about that comment is that prime Haaland still hasn’t existed.
Stevie can have no excuses, that group of players should be a lot better than they are.
The players he inherited are absolute rubbish. Watkins and Ings are trash in front of the goal and miss chance after chance, so that's not on Stevie.
erling haaland is very good imo
r/unpopularopinion in a nutshell
He’s going to break Salah’s goal record before the WC kicks off in November
who the fuck is number 4? why are the CBs refusing to pass douglas luiz?
how are villa making it look leeds have a man advantage?
Edit - leeds are out working them, villa are dire at passing
Leeds have kept the same spirit they had under Bielsa
They’ll run ya to death no matter how far down or what the formation is
I'm old enough to remember when we were like that.
I still love the image of Lallana collapsing into Klopp’s arms coming off late in our very first game under Klopp. He left absolutely nothing on the pitch. That’s what I think most fans would like to see from our players right now at a minimum
Why doesn’t Buendía start for Villa he’s probably one of there best players
Villa's problem is scoring goals. They create plenty of chances so they do not need Buendia.
Should have sniped up tielemans from Leicester would have slotted perfectly into our midfield
I never for the life of me understood why we didn't consider this considering we need at least 2 CMs next season.....the only reason I can think of is maybe he already has an agreement with another club or we want to go the cheap route and sign him on a free
Our current form is largely the result of asking the same group of players to run themselves to the ground for you for five years with no reinforcements. As an elite football club, how do you justify coming out of a transfer window with a weaker squad?
It’s always going to be more or less one out, one in. If no one is out, we’re not going to be generally getting anyone in. The club needed to be a bit more ruthless than they have been.
You're one of those dudes who can strike a nail into a plank, all the way up to the head, with just one blow from the hammer.
How tf is that not a yellow??
We have 4 more years of Klopp. Can we rebuild again?
I mean we have to rebuild but we're already three windows behind IMO. We can't replace an entire midfield over two or three windows amd be effective I wouldn't imagine. They need time.
I'm hoping Arthur comes good tbh, one down two or three to go.
Klopp will probably be the first one to hold back our rebuild
Because you know, loyalty and what not
Luckily some of those player will be gone at the end of the season
Will they, my gut feeling is a few will still remain.
Unless Klopp is cut throat, he’s going to dent/damage his professional reputation and could have left on a high. But I’m putting my energy for him to break that 7th year curse.
Well, I think Klopp is ruthless to move out players that he hasn't managed before. He had done that in his early Dortmund years and did it with Liverpool as well but for the players that who had served him well at one point, he seems reluctant to do so. While that is a sign being a wonderful human being which he is, I don't know if that loyalty works in this incredibly ruthless modern football environment. Sure he can sob like Guardiola did when he had let go off Aguero, but he needs to start getting ruthless.
What other choice do we have? For the rebuild to work fsg has to spend like 150-300 mill in two three transfer windows and Klopp has to be Fergie level ruthless to get rid of certain players.
Both are things against their basic nature. Klopp has to not only reinvent his tactics he needs to reinvent himself as well. Does he have energy to do all of this and will he continuously be backed by fsg? Only time will tell.
Rebuild into top 4? Yes, but a title is out of reach until Madrid wants to farm La Liga even harder.
If anyone can it’s that man
So unlucky for coutinio
All I want on this Sunday is my boy Gerrard gets three points in this game and turns his managerial career around.
Hold dat Sinisterra
I was expecting someone to get sent off in this game but not like that....
Might be about the dumbest second yellow I’ve ever seen.
Let’s cheer up this week. Before we get depressed on 9th
Oh stevie please I want you to do well
Watkins and Ings are frauds. They consistently miss chances or make dumb decisions like doing it alone in the final 3rd. Villa have generally played well overall under Stevie imo but they just don't score so they end up losing games eventually.
Yeah lack such a goal threat. Villa fans blame stevie like they weren’t already shit before he came in
The whole point of hiring a new manager is to improve what's already there though no?
Getting tissues ready to cry
Not even looking forward to next two weekends omg
We realistically could've had 1 win in 7 if it wasn't for that fluke Carvalho winner. I think 20% of the season is enough sample size to roughly estimate the grim trajectory of our season.
I would say 10 games ideally when you start re-evaluating your objectives based on the point difference between top and us but considering we play Arsenal and City next, I agree with you.
Community shield is curse, if city won that we would have been in their shoes and they in ours... LoL
So 0 points in our next two huh?
Unreal how horrid a feeling this is
one thing that makes me slightly happier is the fact that we always seem to beat arsenal when they're in good form
That’s the stupidest thing, usually we’re the team to bring them crashing back to earth whenever they do well, even if we’re shit. Like it makes no sense.
We tried that and it failed. All I can do now is just accept defeat ahead of time and pray that we don’t get absolutely destroyed but even then that’s too much
So players are allowed to have a pathetic mentality and not even put effort on the pitch but fans are slated for showing the same. That makes sense.
I literally never said players we’re allowed to have that mentality… but to already admit defeat for the next two games is tucking pathetic. To think otherwise is pretty sad lol
I wish it was but at this point I’m just keeping it real. The players seem out of it so where the fuck am I to grab any hope when none is there to be grabbed at?
When did we try that?
The 28 days we had off that’s the supposed reinvention that was going on. Shame it wasn’t there
Uuuh the 28 days off were SUPPOSED to be used to reinvent the tactics
The problem is that we didn't, as the game has shown: no change of formation, or players, or tactics (apart from Trent apparently playing as a striker)
Okay so then as an objective point we still suck right?
So then no need further to discuss this
Expecting nothing and being pleasantly surprised is my motto in life.
If you watch Moneyball, the prevailing sentiment is “it’s an unfair game”. The same is true here. This Man City empire pushed and provoked and gutted our boys until it made us literally an unstoppable force of nature 19/20. Klopp’s story is still being written so who knows, but if he walked today at least we can reflect that he took us out of the mud and made all our dreams come true.
The Man City project has destroyed football and it will not be remembered as they removed the one thing that keeps the game going, jeopardy. Their story is not the team on the pitch today, but all the players they have bought and sold. They could make a squad of players that they just wrote off or didn’t even need to succeed and it would cost more than ours. I refuse to laud them for signing well, when they equally do not sign well, it just doesn’t matter when it happens. It’s not a dynasty if you cheat beyond measure and bastardize the sport to the point of irrelevance. I think that over half our squad are now a combination of physically and emotionally done, beyond the point of recovery. I honestly think Virgil is the latter. He’s the best in the world but his efforts are being rendered not good enough by those cheats. He didn’t clear the ball yesterday, but when he cleared every single ball for 5 years we still lost the league twice by a point. It’s absolutely haunting. Our boys will be remembered and they won’t be, I’m certain of it.
This is all very poetic and maybe arsenal fans can use that as a justification when they lose the title to City
We need to get our house in order first before pointing fingers at others.
This comment can make a grown man cry.
Look at Usain Bolt. He was a phenomenal talent, far better than anyone who came before. Imagine if throughout his career he had been racing against a robot designed by a company with infinite resources. Obviously robots are not allowed to enter athletics, but the company's legal team find ways around that. Every time Usain shaves a tenth of a second off his time, the company make their robot 2 tenths faster. He would chase it for years, he might beat it occasionally, but eventually he wouldn't be able to compete at that level anymore. It's simply unsustainable. We gave them more of a run than we should have been able to, but the lads have nothing left in any tank.
You are talking as if that hasn't been the case since decades?.
Look at United ans Chelsea last decade. Spending money at every player available. Bayern does it. Madrid and barca have been doing it for decades.
We had the chance to create a dynasty but got arrogant and thought no one else is good enough to player for us. We are the reason for our own downfall
It has been coming
It’s like watching a rich kid who bought all the best fifa players and uses sliders
Salah's record... It's not looking good brev
It'll be broken in record time. This league, and football at large, is now tainted for the foreseeable and very dark future.
Think its time to just give up on Football tbh this is so fucking shit whats the point anymore
I totally agree, Man city got a cheatcode and they look like winning this league even before half of season
This leeds villa game is rough and intense
Wondering how many more punches Meslier will completely miss.
Watching that Barca game again really hurts now. Where has that team gone
No signings after the Coutinho money even with all those Champions league finals and league win.
FSG's moneyball management doesn't work for challenging the title especially with City and soon to be Newcastle in the mix.
Klopp's tactical inflexibility and decline from ageing + Trent's laziness is also killing us.
No signings since then other than Fabinho, Allison, Elliot, Tsimikas, Thiago, Jota, Konate, Diaz, and Nunez…
Now name the players we sold to fund that . Sell to buy kills us
We just have to be better at it
Different argument though to ‘we didn’t buy anyone after Coutinho’. I’d argue what’s killing us we didn’t sell to buy when we maybe should have.
We bought the minimum to keep the team functional now we're not and with no investment in sight either. No I don't think a $20 million midfielder in a few months time saves our season either.
Knowing FSG we'll sell Nat for a that midfielder as well.
Because we didn’t do enough selling. Ox and Keita should have been offloaded years ago and replaced. I’d argue Milner should probably not have been extended and, as much as I hate to say it, neither should Henderson. In general, FSG aren’t going to be inclined to allow incomings to the point where we can’t even register players in all comps. You can call it sell to buy if you want, but it’s pretty logical really. People big up Edwards a lot on here but honestly he did a shit job at succession planning and execution to that.
It got old and figured out.
There almost all still right there on the pitch with the same tactics. They're just all a few years older and never get to rest while being told by their bosses to get back out there and do twice as much work with not even half as much energy left
*We are so fucked in two weeks...*
We are so fucked in one week...
Arsenal will make short work of us too
What a sentence, goodness me. Shows how far we've fallen.
I hate it here.
City will rip us a new one. Mother of god how did he reach for that 2nd goal, unbelievable pass.
He's basically a Lewandowski and Zlatan hybrid. The Dortmund goal was so similar to the ones Zlatan scored in his prime.
I hate that City are so entertaining to watch. Beautiful linkup plays and one-twos. Wish we could start doing that again.
Haaland is so fun to watch but it sucks that it’s for city
This Klopp era will be nothing but a small footnote in City’s dynasty when we look back
1 PL, 1 CL, two times we lost the league by 1pt, two times we lost in the CL Final to Madrid
What a shame. We could’ve had a dynasty
Infuriating. FSG out. The Klopp years could have been so much better.
They spent a lot, we just didnt hit the jackpot recently with our transfers and failed to offload dead wood, tgats a lot of opportunity cost. Ox makes 120, milner 140. Keita makes a lot too. These should have been replaced two three years ago. We cant afford those kind of mistakes. City propably could afford them, but frankly they have been doing better transfers recently.
How much investment do we realistically need to "catch up" to City?
It's over unfortunately I don't see the team making a comeback unless we get new owners and somehow get Bellingham.
City is ageing too, at some point they need to replace kdb and pep etc. Whats more worrying is that even arsenal keeps doing better transfers than us.
If we'd steadily invested since 2019, when we were hands down the best football club in the world? They might not even have had this many titles. As it stands it'll take upwards of £300mn now they have a clinical 9. Add Bellingham and it won't matter how much we spend even until Guardiola leaves.
Like 300-400 million not even joking. We need 3 new midfielders,back up proven right back, another winger for salads side and a Bobby replacement
Would guess Jota or Carvalho is seen as the Bobby replacement, the rest is right though
We need to offload players first to make that happen. And Bellingham in this side as it currently stands makes absolutely no difference.
FSG are not interested in a dynasty. Ask Red Sox fans.
Success to FSG is team mediocrity that sees their investments increase in value
Pretty sure a dynasty would increase it in value even more. This is a silly argument.
The investments in creating that would be more than the profits
Hard to say. Just saying it’s silly to be seemingly saying they don’t want a dynasty but want mediocrity. I do agree from an FSG standpoint there is little difference between 2nd and 1st in the league. CL qualification is mandatory though- we can’t afford our team without it.
This team has given us incredible moments, but I honestly loved the sport more during our banter era than this blue balls era.
Because there were no expectations.
17/18, 18/19 underdogs era >>>
I did not. I genuinely stopped watching us or any football during the Hodgson era.
The Hodgson era was brutal, but all I'm saying is that barely losing out on the major trophies on several occasions has zapped my passion for the sport to some extent, I can't bring myself to care as much anymore. It's also kinda depressing that this team could've been so much more and we foolishly didn't attempt to fully tap into that potential.
I was enjoying the shit out of man united getting their ass beat until I remembered that this is probably going to be us in 2 weeks
"Give me 10 pieces of wood and James Milner and I'll win the quadruple"
Sorry we found that there's only one right piece of wood and we got outbid for it. Now you only have James Milner
Right. Time to stop watching football and pick a different hobby.
That's the league for the next 10 years done.
I doubt Pep and Haaland will even be there in 5 tbh but it’s looking grim for the next few years at least
If Klopp was really serious about changing things he needs to drop some of his favourites like vvd, trent and bite the bullet with maybe three at the back formation to provide extra security against likes of Arsenal and city who we will be playing soon.
Do something to stop the rot, change formation, play two up top in jota and Nunez. If we continue to keep dropping points at least we will know then its the personnel not the formation that's the problem.
But knowing Klopp all of this won't happen, Fabinho is gonna probably get dropped in the next game.
People wanting or expecting wholesale changes are going to be seriously disappointed.
I feel a sudden shift in formation mid season reeks of desperation and lack of planning.
And I do not think Klopp will do that now. But he honestly should look at redefining player roles in the mean time while slowly deviating from the trusted 4-3-3
We do seem a bit desperate and our planning has been pretty shit so…
>feel a sudden shift in formation mid season reeks of desperation and lack of planning.
Either we can do this now with the season still less than 10 games or later when we are out of the top four race as well.
At least in the short term against the likes of City and Arsenal, we can't afford to lose any more games this season.
Unless the other frontrunners have a massive fall-off; (which is not that far fetched btw) I do not think we finish above 5th.
We were ten points off top four in jan, in the cb crises season, too early to throw in the towel for top four. Let's just get some rhythm and shore up the defense and see where it takes us.
if we play the city game like we’ve been playing for the past few games, i can guarantee you we’re gonna get smacked 9 or 10-0 by city
10-0 is a stretch, I'd realistically go with 7-0
The whole mutual respect is all a veil. Deep down I know Guardiola hates the love Liverpool and Klopp get from everyone. And he will try to stick the boot in.
Our only saving grace is in the past under Klopp, Liverpool have gone to city when we were mere party spoilers. And spoil we did.
I just hope it’s one of those 20 minute smash and grabs.
It's not even deep down mate, the man has come out and literally said it many times now.
There is admiration between pep and Klopp and mutual respect, but no love.
He’s hates it because he knows he could never do what klopp did with the players he had . Hurts his ego
Haaland is just a freak of nature, hopefully he fucks of to Madrid before his contracts up
Why would he want to do that?
His dad will want money that comes from his transfer fee
As soon as KB moves on, he has the starring role in a resurgent RM who is likely the best team in the world for the next decade.
He can play for a real football team and not just some Oil baron's Football manager fantasy
Galaticos? Real football team? They are the equivalent of Harlem globe trotters since before we were born lol
Still more of a football team than that fucking pile of shit in Manchester
He’s at City now though, I’d rather we just sort our shit out and smash City whilst they have him than cry about it and pray he gets bought by Madrid
I can't see us being "sorted" out for years at this point with how the owners are and even then we would still lose by 1 point so none of it fucking matters
I cannot believe there were posts here that said that Nunez is a better buy than Haaland. We paid almost 100m for a player who has barely played for us. Fucking sucks man.
I mean, anyone who said Nunez was better clearly never watched Haaland. He was already a world class player breaking records at an above average dortmund. He was only going to get more chances to score at city.
Nunez was brought with the potential to be world class, but that looks like it could be some time off
Some time off means that he would at some point be world class. I hope that's true, but it may be wishful thinking today.
Whats sad is the bandwagon who really thought Harland would not be a good fit for us and wouldn't score as many as Nunez would. Right now, we are looking like idiots.
I don't think many thought that earnestly. Fact is, City were the only ones to have the necessities: the ability to pay the wages needed to sign him and also have an appealing team to join in the short term for trophies and prestige. Man U and Chelsea could pay but do not guarantee trophies and well, we only pay 300+k for 30 year olds with a goal every four games for the last 8 months.
Just last week someone was trying to argue with me that they are similar players lmao
Lol they need to be whacked. Nunez has less than 10% output of Harland today. As of today, he sucks
Still the only English team to have won a trophy this season. Well, a shield.
Community shield is our memberberries this season
Wtf happened to the team after that game
It’s the community shield curse. 🥴
We played so good that game. Makes no sense.