This is a mistranslation created by the localisation team changing "Keyblade Hero" to "Keyblade Master". Riku says the world doesn't need two heroes. The team mistakenly thought Riku was talking about the Keyblade due to their own "Keyblade hero/master" stuff.
I'm just gonna copy/paste my reply to a similar thread from a year ago.
Even in the KH Ultimania, which was being worked on before the game was released, Nomura said there are other wielders out there besides Sora and Riku.
[KH1 Ultimania:](https://kh-ultimania.livejournal.com/3508.html)
>\---Does that mean there are other Keyblade masters?
>
>Nomura: Well, there are other Keyblade masters, but coincidentally for now, Kairi happened to arrive to the world Riku and Sora are in.
There was never meant to be one wielder. It's the English translation's fault for making people think that. Riku's "There can't be two Keyblade Masters" doesn't even exist in Japanese. He doesn't even mention the Keyblade in that line. He says "We don't need two heroes.", then Riku later tosses Sora his toy sword saying "Sora, your turn is over. This toy suits a pretend hero like you."
[Riku's line in English.](https://youtu.be/Z4JYGIKS0sM?t=1248)
[Riku's line in Japanese.](https://youtu.be/Fe5nEhUOsEk?list=PL7F44048C18FA9A26&t=321)
In Japanese, he clearly says "Yuusha" which means "hero", and he doesn't say "Kiburedo" until he starts talking about being the true owner of the Keyblade.
It's the same with the incorrect term of Sora being the "Keyblade Master". In Japanese Sora is merely called the "Keyblade Hero", or "Hero of the Keyblade".
This is probably why the localisation team messed up. They were so used to translating "Keyblade Hero" as "Keyblade Master" that when Riku talks about being a hero in the Japanese version, they mistranslated it as Riku talking about the Keyblade. It's a wonder they didn't also mistranslate Riku's "Go play hero with this" to "Go play Keyblade Master with this" instead.
The localization in the series is really weird. It feels like the handheld/mobile games have a much more faithful translation most of the time, while the console ones always have some awkwardness in them.
I think it's possibly the other way around; the handheld games had better dialogue, possibly as a result of having more creative freedom with the localization due to most of the speech being text and not having to match timing and mouth movements the way the voiced cutscenes do.
Ironically, though, the weird thing of Riku being able to smell darkness is commonly thought to be the result of mistranslation, but is actually correct.
I think the fact that they use hero when Riku tosses the toy sword, but not when he takes the keyblade is because of how English and Japanese work. In English, repeating the same word in such a short time can feel redundant, whereas in Japanese that's not the case (Japanese people do that even during conversation, to show that you are listening to the other person).
Still, it's a pity that the localisation created such a big misconception because the translators probably didn't know that there would be more keyblade wielders.
>I think the fact that they use hero when Riku tosses the toy sword, but not when he takes the keyblade is because of how English and Japanese work. In English, repeating the same word in such a short time can feel redundant, whereas in Japanese that's not the case (Japanese people do that even during conversation, to show that you are listening to the other person).
That's clearly not the case since they make Riku say Keyblade more in English than he does in Japanese because of the mistranslation.
They've also never cared how often characters say specific words before.
It's far more likely that they prefered "*Go play hero with this*" instead of "*Go play Keyblade master with this*"
That's not what Riku's talking about. In Japanese, he's saying the world doesn't need two heroes to save it. He's not saying two people can't use the same Keyblade.
Besides, millions of fans still point to this scene as "proof" that Nomura retconned there being only one Keyblade. Or that there is only one Keyblade wielder.
Sure but the English still makes sense and isn't a plothole nor a weird conversation in context of the events of the game.
Those millions of fans forget that Mickey shows up at the end with a Keyblade or the secret ending with roxas dual wielding keyblades?
I don't disagree it is a mistranslation, I disagree that the mistranslation is the source of confusion. People ignoring events of the game is the source.
But it is the source of the confusion. To this day, it's still seen as "proof" Nomura retconned the Keyblade. People handwave the KKD and the Keyblade of Heart as being the exception.
And what I was talking about, is how you said this information doesn't matter because in English it still makes sense. But they completely changed the context of the scene. It doesn't matter if it makes sense.
Honestly probably a lot, look up kh mistranslations on YouTube and you'll probably find many videos. I've watched some and it's both funny and upsetting
I don't think it's on purpose though, at least not in some situations. I think sometimes things are changed on purpose but tbh I don't wanna get into that rn
Well, there's Roxas's line, "Who else will I have ice cream with?" That was a mistranslation, I think in the Japanese version he said something along the lines of "Who else will I sit on the clock tower with?"
Granted, that line still works better than most, especially since Axel told Roxas that friends hang out, eat ice cream, and laugh about the stupidest stuff.
Ohhh wow this is interesting!!
This whole time I thought Riku said that just because he's being a stupid, arrogant, emo kid. That's >!why at the end when Mickey shows up at the end up game to close the door and whips out his own key!<, I figured that was a silent nod saying "There can and will definitely be more keyblade welders in the future." And also a big "Ha Riku, you are wrong and stupid."
I don't think it's a "plot hole" either way. Riku was scooped up in his tiny world all his life, it's not a plothole that he doesn't know that this fabled "legendary weapon of legend" that everyone in the story keeps freaking out about is actually an average household commodity in most other worlds.
Ok, character perspective aside. They wrote in the first game “there can only be one keyblade master.” And then afterwards, made games that showed many.
To me, that was a plot hole.
I am glad to see it clarified as a translation error as it never made sense to me.
"They" did not write that, RIKU said so, because RIKU didn't know any better. The game making it a big deal to show that a character who didn't know any better was wrong is NOT a plot hole by ANY definition of the term. Mickey shows up just a few gameplay hours later wielding a second keyblade. The game itself shows Riku that Riku was wrong, much to Rikus surprise. That is not a plot hole, and if you still consider it a plot hole, that doesn't make it a plot hole, it just means you don't understand how basic storytelling works.
Where did they write that? It's dialogue from an unreliable narrator (Riku.) We see like 3 other keyblade wielders by the time the credits are finished rolling in KH1.
A- the parent comment man
B- I beat the first game when I was 8 in 2002, before YouTube. I didn’t know there was a secret ending, so yeah, really seemed like they were saying there could only be one back then.
Even disregarding the secret ending, Mickey *shows up with a different keyblade* as like...a major plot point at the end of the game, needing a key on both sides to close the door.
Honestly being a Keyblade weilder in KH is like being a Super Saiyan in Dragon Ball; it used to be something that made the main character super special and unique, but over time enough people gained access to it or are evil and therefore have an equally powerful equivalent that it kinda became the new baseline for relevance in the series
Actually, i find it more interesting that even when you restrict it to actual "keyblade masters" you still find multiple. Including two who would have been around at the time that he said, "there can't be two keyblade masters". Specifically being aqua and mickey.
Sure but Riku was scooped up in his tiny world all his life, it's not that strange that he doesn't know that this fabled "legendary weapon of legend" that everyone in the story keeps freaking out about is actually an average household commodity in most other worlds. And in KH1 everyone seems to be suggesting that "the keyblade" (singular) is practically unheared of outside of legends. Even Maleficent who has already been stabbed by one multiple times at this point seems genuinely upset to see that the keyblade is real.
I love how Sora and Riku claim to be keyblade masters in KH1 just because they have a keyblade then once they finally meet others and see what mess they got themselves into they actually have to be tested to become masters.
I rly wish I could get behind the whole mark fo mastery thing but honestly Sora I'd the only real master with Riku as a runner up.
Sora saved the universe multiple times against these 'masters' like Xehanort. The title means nothing.
Yen Sid took their abilities away so they'd have to start from scratch, and then acted surprised when Sora lost his abilities and had to start from scratch and then failed him for getting kidnapped by the evil time-traveling wizard he already knew was looking for him. Dude's a crappy teacher.
He failed him for getting tempted by darkness.
As Xigbar said, Sora’s heart led him into the Organization’s clutches. And falling into sleep was falling into darkness.
Riku passed the test pretty much cuz he came back with the goal. The Power of Waking
But Xemnas also said they knew he'd be there because their time traveling self from the future told them so, purposefully intercepted him, placed a literal giant X on him for his journey and then put a hypnosis spell on him. Like at some point it just stops being Soras fault.
Riku was also followed, but they weren’t able to do anything to him cuz he had become resistant to darkness.
Sora just didn’t have that resistance and follows his heart to impulsively for his own good
Sora didn't follow his heart there though, the organisation intercepted him and forced him to end up in The World That Never Was. He was basically kidnapped. You're blaming the victim for the crime. And given that Riku is resistant to darkness because he fell to darkness, the other part is saying that Sora isn't master material because he didn't turn evil when he could have. Which is stupid. They are saying that Riku is master material because of what made Terra fail, and they disqualified Sora for the same thing that made Aqua pass. Also they did not track Riku, ONLY Sora. They specifically say so.
I meant that while Sora was in his dreams him following his heart led him closer and closer to darkness. Which is what the Organization wanted
Also like I said earlier, Riku passed the test because he completed the task. He got the Power of Waking and used it to save Sora.
Edit: Yes, Sora specifically was tracked with the Recusant’s Sigil. But like I said, Riku was also followed. Remember, they talked to Riku plenty of times during his journey
To be fair, part of the rules of time travel mean that there has to be a version of the person present in the time and place they're traveling to. They knew Riku's full possession began in Hollow Bastion, none of them put together that it technically began on the islands and that the brown robed figure was Xehanort until after the test began, at which point it was too late. Yen Sid took a gamble to try and get them power they needed in a way Xehanort couldn't interfere with, and it failed because Xehanort's whole *thing* was "I planned for almost everything ever".
Hey I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. Sometimes characters are unreliable sources of information. Either because they are lying or were lied to or simply made a wrong assumption.
Shocking, I know.
KH1 Riku was being manipulated by Maleficent and Ansem and part of that manipulation involved making Riku think that Sora is stealing what is rightfully his (the keyblade) and in order for that manipulation to work he has to believe there's only ONE keyblade.
It was a mistranslation but this would have definitely worked. If Riku would have known that he can just create a new one the story would be definitely different.
Well it's canon that darkness does make someone stronger and Aqua was already a master. Plus to be honest, KH3 had a huge main character syndrome and refused to let anyone but Sora achive anything at all so Aqua had plot armor until Sora appeared.
I know it’s a mistranslation but to be fair Riku and Sora didn’t know anything about… well… ANYTHING back in KH1. Plus Riku was so blinded by his power, ego, and pride it makes sense for him at this time to assume that there can only be one Keyblade Master, and that he is that master
Yeah. His entire motivation is pretty much that he hates being scooped up on a tiny island knowing nothing of the world, so it makes sense that he had no idea that outside of his world a keyblade is a common household appliance that everyone and their mom has in their attic.
It still makes sense if we assume he meant the same keyblade. Because they were both "sharing" the kingdom key.
However, now that I think about it, xion also has the kingdom key... How does that work? 🤔
Riku called out Xion's keyblade as a fake. She just copied Sora's power. Sora was also out at the time so even if it was his, she was just borrowing it like Roxas.
That almost makes sense, but it doesn't. If I recall correctly, roxas and xion used the kingdom key at the same time, in 358/2days. Also, she had the kingdom key in kingdom hearts 3, when she came back. How does it work then?
Plus, this is all ignoring the fact that roxas has two keyblades, which are technically the kingdom key with different key chains. I'm just assuming those are different keyblades, for some reason.
Well Xion was absorbing Roxas' ability so she stole his keyblade eventually, but before that hers was just a facsimile.
Roxas using two I can't remember if it was confirmed but I think it was him using Sora and Ventus' keyblades since they are all connected. Ventus' keyblade just took the form of a kingdom key
Eventually it was. At the beginning it wasn't, and just like Xion's there was a time frame where it got shattered and was unusable for a bit, only to evolve into enough of a person to turn it into a real one. It served as a proof of concept for the attempt to recreate Roxas from data that Zexion was working on KH3.
Yea, mostly just pointing iut more details of the situation, that it didn't just pop into existence as a full-fledged Keyblade as soon as the game started.
Yap. Apparently a stick can briefly destroy heartless. I like how days should the other organization members using magic besides their elements, good thing they did use them when we fight them.
To be fair Roxas does have a higher level of "beat the everloving shit out of things" than Sora does. Like Ansem's computers...and Ansem's body projection hologram, among other things XD
It makes sense either way. Riku had forgotten about meeting Terra as confirmed by Nomura, and how was he supposed to know that everyone and their mom has a keyblade when literally everyone Sora and Riku met in KH1 kept going on about how "The keyblade" is this legendary thing that only appears in legend. Even Maleficent who has already been beaten up by other keyblades multiple times. Sora and Riku had no way of knowing that there were other keyblades.
Mistranslation and unreliable narrator aside, am I the only person that took it to mean that one keyblade couldn't have two masters?
"This town ain't big enough for the both of us." Doesn't imply that there are no other towns.
No I assumed that Riku ment there's only one keyblade and it belongs to him. But to be fair, he lived on a tiny island for all his life and everyone in KH1 kept pretending like the keyblade is a one-of-a-kind legendary artifact. Even Maleficent never brings up that she has already been stabbed by more keyblades than Riku will ever see in his life, so how was Sora or Riku supposed to know there's multiple?
Yeah Riku met Terra but he was super young then and forgot, as stated by Nomura. Also we obviously didn't know BBS by the time KH1 released.
We could always chalk it up to them being kids and they dont truly know the bigger world around them. For all they knew, the Kingdom Key was the only keyblade in existence. How were they supposed to know "Keyblade master" is a real term
I mean, even in this context, neither of them knew there were other wielders. As far as Riku and Sora knew at this point, they were the only two that could use a keyblade.
To be fair the secret movie is it's own can of worms from the meta sense, Mickey having a keyblade was clearly intended to be a big reveal (and goes along the whole light/darkness thingy) while the secret movie is them basically going for the coolest thing they could come up with as it was more of a proof of concept and retroactively worked with it.
Rikus keyblade is a fake though (except you mean when he's wielding the Kingdom Key but that's just Soras keyblade so still counts as one). And Roxas isn't in KH1. Nomura said that the KH1 and KH2 secret endings are just cool scenes they came up with for fun, they had no idea who these characters were or that there'd even be story left to tell at this point. He didn't know who Roxas was for the KH1 secret ending, nor that the guy in the armor in the secret ending for KH2 wasn't Roxas but a new character called Ven. Both those secret endings were just "let's just animate a badass keyblade battle" and nothing more at the time.
I feel like I'm going to say this a lot too.
Nomura absolutely would retcon a fuck ton of things if Square ever remade KH1. It'd be good for Square too since it pushes people to play who already know the story to see what changed.
The part where I say I hate Time Travel!! Of course as a Fan of The Flash, Sonic, and Kingdom Hearts I don't hate Time Travel. I just have trouble wrapping my Ape brain around the Whole concept. I said I hate Time Travel, and Oh look got down Voted. It was just a joke. I'm well aware how Forking Wrong Riku was at this moment. I was just stating something I THOUGHT would be funny, but I guess people took that as me attacking Kingdom Hearts.
I said it once elsewhere , and I’ll say it here again .
he said ' there can’t be **two** keyblade masters ' which is still true because we have many keyblade masters now
i mean that was true when as far as he knew there was only one keyblade. its not like meleficent or ansem would see any reason to tell him
its not even like it's a retcon in this case because he gets proven wrong one hour of gameplay later when he gets possessed by ansem and has a keyblade from then on
It's certainly not like Star Wars where you can have many jedis but 2 siths. Wait now that I think about it there has been sith moments. Xehanort and Ventus, Xehanort and Vanitus, Xehanort and Terra, Xehanort and Riku, and Xigbar and Xehanort.
KH1: Sora is THE chosen wielder of THE Keyblade.
Also KH1: Mickey also has a keyblade.
KH2: Kairi is given a keyblade out of thin air. Also, Riku has a keyblade. Also, Roxas has two keyblades. Also, there's a giant field of keyblades somewhere.
*>>*
KH3: Sora hurls a barrage of keyblades at a Heartless tornado while riding a wave of keyblades--
ok hol up
I always thought it was so interesting how people can take a fact or any information, from a game or media, and just say things like this. Because the settings of the world are usually never fully fleshed out until 4 games later with over 20 years of difference. It’s like a law of reality can just change because someone updated the world.
“There can’t be more than one Keyblade master” 1st game that’s true
“Everybody gets a Keyblade!”
13th game that’s true
What I’m trying to say is, is that it doesn’t feel right to just call anyone wrong.
Except most people assumed it was because it was the Keyblade from a different dimension.
The most common theory I heard when the game came out was that there are 3 Keyblades. One for each dimension and then there are synthetic keyblades like the Blade of Hearts
Sora falls asleep on day 49. Most of Days happens with Roxas having the keyblade all for himself. It is not clarified if the keyblade is existing for both at the same time or if they are swapping it without knowing.
Either way, again: I don't get the point you are trying to make. We are talking about Sora and Sora-but-not-Sora being both the masters of the same keyblade, this does not contradict the first point of "two persons can't control the same keyblade". The detail here is that Sora and Roxas were the same person at the beggining (and stayed that way for a good while).
this part of the timeline is so confusing to me
so both sora and roxas were out and about doing stuff at the same time??? even though nobodies aren’t supposed to do that??? and then naminé is also doing the same thing with kairi during kh1 and she sticks around even after sora seppukus himself to get her heart back??
The only requirement for a Nobody to be created is for the Heart of a sufficiently willful individual leave a body as a Heartless is created. Roxas was originally going to be an ordinary Nobody. When Sora’s Heartless was restored to a human form, Roxas’ creation was left incomplete leaving him without memories.
Sora can operate while Roxas is active because ,with the exeption of the Keyblade, he is not using what Roxas is using.
Naminé was created because the requirements to create a Nobody where met. Kairi’s Heart left a body as a Heartless was created. It doesn’t matter that Kairi cannot become a Heartless. A Heartless was still created when her Heart left a body, Sora’s Heartless was created when Sora’s and Kairi’s Hearts left Sora’s body. Naminé is Kairi’s Nobody and not Sora’s because she is the result of Kairi’s Heart leaving a body as a Heartless was created while Roxas is the result of Sora’s Heart doing the same. Naminé’s main difference from a regular Nobody is that she did not took anything from kairi due to Kairi’s body being unavailable as it was not involved in the process and she did not took anything from Sora because Sora’s body being claimed by Roxas because he is Sora’s Nobody. Naminé was made out of nothing.
Naminé can operate while Kairi is active because Naminé uses nothing.
Nah, because Xehenort fucked with Aqua/Ven/Terra's Mark of Mastery exam to push Terra and Ven to darkness, and then almost Norted Sora, so with him gone multiple keyblade wielders should be able to pass at the same time.
Ansem, who's just chilling in the backseat of Riku's heart: "One who knows nothing can understand nothing."
Correct. One who knows NOTHING can understand NOTHING.
I guess Riku and Ansem shall go together?
*Xemnas has entered the chat*
*Nobody has entered the chat*
Is this considered Beetlejuicing
This is a mistranslation created by the localisation team changing "Keyblade Hero" to "Keyblade Master". Riku says the world doesn't need two heroes. The team mistakenly thought Riku was talking about the Keyblade due to their own "Keyblade hero/master" stuff. I'm just gonna copy/paste my reply to a similar thread from a year ago. Even in the KH Ultimania, which was being worked on before the game was released, Nomura said there are other wielders out there besides Sora and Riku. [KH1 Ultimania:](https://kh-ultimania.livejournal.com/3508.html) >\---Does that mean there are other Keyblade masters? > >Nomura: Well, there are other Keyblade masters, but coincidentally for now, Kairi happened to arrive to the world Riku and Sora are in. There was never meant to be one wielder. It's the English translation's fault for making people think that. Riku's "There can't be two Keyblade Masters" doesn't even exist in Japanese. He doesn't even mention the Keyblade in that line. He says "We don't need two heroes.", then Riku later tosses Sora his toy sword saying "Sora, your turn is over. This toy suits a pretend hero like you." [Riku's line in English.](https://youtu.be/Z4JYGIKS0sM?t=1248) [Riku's line in Japanese.](https://youtu.be/Fe5nEhUOsEk?list=PL7F44048C18FA9A26&t=321) In Japanese, he clearly says "Yuusha" which means "hero", and he doesn't say "Kiburedo" until he starts talking about being the true owner of the Keyblade. It's the same with the incorrect term of Sora being the "Keyblade Master". In Japanese Sora is merely called the "Keyblade Hero", or "Hero of the Keyblade". This is probably why the localisation team messed up. They were so used to translating "Keyblade Hero" as "Keyblade Master" that when Riku talks about being a hero in the Japanese version, they mistranslated it as Riku talking about the Keyblade. It's a wonder they didn't also mistranslate Riku's "Go play hero with this" to "Go play Keyblade Master with this" instead.
The localization in the series is really weird. It feels like the handheld/mobile games have a much more faithful translation most of the time, while the console ones always have some awkwardness in them.
I think it's possibly the other way around; the handheld games had better dialogue, possibly as a result of having more creative freedom with the localization due to most of the speech being text and not having to match timing and mouth movements the way the voiced cutscenes do. Ironically, though, the weird thing of Riku being able to smell darkness is commonly thought to be the result of mistranslation, but is actually correct.
Riku being able to smell darkness being canon is both the silliest and most wonderful thing I've ever heard it has NO right being that funny
And according to Dark Road, Eraqus can, too!
So does zexion iirc
That's crazy! Why can they do that XD
I appreciate that, given the chance to walk back a weird writing choice, Nomura instead decided to double down
They actually don’t have to match lip movement cuz they change the lip movements for the English release
I think the fact that they use hero when Riku tosses the toy sword, but not when he takes the keyblade is because of how English and Japanese work. In English, repeating the same word in such a short time can feel redundant, whereas in Japanese that's not the case (Japanese people do that even during conversation, to show that you are listening to the other person). Still, it's a pity that the localisation created such a big misconception because the translators probably didn't know that there would be more keyblade wielders.
>I think the fact that they use hero when Riku tosses the toy sword, but not when he takes the keyblade is because of how English and Japanese work. In English, repeating the same word in such a short time can feel redundant, whereas in Japanese that's not the case (Japanese people do that even during conversation, to show that you are listening to the other person). That's clearly not the case since they make Riku say Keyblade more in English than he does in Japanese because of the mistranslation. They've also never cared how often characters say specific words before. It's far more likely that they prefered "*Go play hero with this*" instead of "*Go play Keyblade master with this*"
They probably thought it would sound bad if keyblade master was said two times in a sentence, which it would.
Huh, that's neat s0ra.
That’s very interesting I never knew that! Thanks for the knowledge.
None of that really matters because in context he means multiple people using (or being the master of) a single keyblade.
That's not what Riku's talking about. In Japanese, he's saying the world doesn't need two heroes to save it. He's not saying two people can't use the same Keyblade. Besides, millions of fans still point to this scene as "proof" that Nomura retconned there being only one Keyblade. Or that there is only one Keyblade wielder.
Sure but the English still makes sense and isn't a plothole nor a weird conversation in context of the events of the game. Those millions of fans forget that Mickey shows up at the end with a Keyblade or the secret ending with roxas dual wielding keyblades?
Just because it "makes sense in English" doesn't mean it's not a mistranslation that has confused people into thinking Nomura retconned the series.
I don't disagree it is a mistranslation, I disagree that the mistranslation is the source of confusion. People ignoring events of the game is the source.
But it is the source of the confusion. To this day, it's still seen as "proof" Nomura retconned the Keyblade. People handwave the KKD and the Keyblade of Heart as being the exception. And what I was talking about, is how you said this information doesn't matter because in English it still makes sense. But they completely changed the context of the scene. It doesn't matter if it makes sense.
I wonder what other localization errors there are that makes content get lost
Honestly probably a lot, look up kh mistranslations on YouTube and you'll probably find many videos. I've watched some and it's both funny and upsetting
I don't think it's on purpose though, at least not in some situations. I think sometimes things are changed on purpose but tbh I don't wanna get into that rn
Well, there's Roxas's line, "Who else will I have ice cream with?" That was a mistranslation, I think in the Japanese version he said something along the lines of "Who else will I sit on the clock tower with?" Granted, that line still works better than most, especially since Axel told Roxas that friends hang out, eat ice cream, and laugh about the stupidest stuff.
I always interpreted it to mean ‘there can’t be two masters of the same keyblade’ and this was the only one they knew of at the time
Ohhh wow this is interesting!! This whole time I thought Riku said that just because he's being a stupid, arrogant, emo kid. That's >!why at the end when Mickey shows up at the end up game to close the door and whips out his own key!<, I figured that was a silent nod saying "There can and will definitely be more keyblade welders in the future." And also a big "Ha Riku, you are wrong and stupid."
Thank you for clarifying what I always thought was the 2nd biggest plot hole
I don't think it's a "plot hole" either way. Riku was scooped up in his tiny world all his life, it's not a plothole that he doesn't know that this fabled "legendary weapon of legend" that everyone in the story keeps freaking out about is actually an average household commodity in most other worlds.
Ok, character perspective aside. They wrote in the first game “there can only be one keyblade master.” And then afterwards, made games that showed many. To me, that was a plot hole. I am glad to see it clarified as a translation error as it never made sense to me.
"They" did not write that, RIKU said so, because RIKU didn't know any better. The game making it a big deal to show that a character who didn't know any better was wrong is NOT a plot hole by ANY definition of the term. Mickey shows up just a few gameplay hours later wielding a second keyblade. The game itself shows Riku that Riku was wrong, much to Rikus surprise. That is not a plot hole, and if you still consider it a plot hole, that doesn't make it a plot hole, it just means you don't understand how basic storytelling works.
Where did they write that? It's dialogue from an unreliable narrator (Riku.) We see like 3 other keyblade wielders by the time the credits are finished rolling in KH1.
A- the parent comment man B- I beat the first game when I was 8 in 2002, before YouTube. I didn’t know there was a secret ending, so yeah, really seemed like they were saying there could only be one back then.
Even disregarding the secret ending, Mickey *shows up with a different keyblade* as like...a major plot point at the end of the game, needing a key on both sides to close the door.
Darn. You beat me to it.
I mean....they still have more than one hero, he's still bonkers.
*Hero of the Keyblade
He’s the Keyblade Master. She’s the Keyblade Master. We’re all Keyblade Masters!!!
"ARE THERE ANY OTHER KEYBLADE MASTERS I SHOULD KNOW ABOUT!?"
There's the one in the sub lab. But he won't be ready for another 12 Yeats or so.
Has it been explained who that was yet?
The most common bet is on it being Skuld but there has been nothing official on this subject.
Meow. (Keyblade Master)
Are there any other keyblade masters I should know about!?
(Random three-years old appear) I’m a Keyblade master!
Who, Roxas?
Ackshually roxas was 1 years old 🤓
THE WHOLE DAMN SYSTEM IS A KEYBLADE MASTER!!
Honestly being a Keyblade weilder in KH is like being a Super Saiyan in Dragon Ball; it used to be something that made the main character super special and unique, but over time enough people gained access to it or are evil and therefore have an equally powerful equivalent that it kinda became the new baseline for relevance in the series
Actually, i find it more interesting that even when you restrict it to actual "keyblade masters" you still find multiple. Including two who would have been around at the time that he said, "there can't be two keyblade masters". Specifically being aqua and mickey.
Yeah, even going by just that game, Mickey showed up with another keyblade.
Yea that's the most stupid thing about it, Mickey showing up a couple fights later with a keyblade.
Sure but Riku was scooped up in his tiny world all his life, it's not that strange that he doesn't know that this fabled "legendary weapon of legend" that everyone in the story keeps freaking out about is actually an average household commodity in most other worlds. And in KH1 everyone seems to be suggesting that "the keyblade" (singular) is practically unheared of outside of legends. Even Maleficent who has already been stabbed by one multiple times at this point seems genuinely upset to see that the keyblade is real.
“It’s a Keyblade Weilder bargain sale.” - Riku probably
In the case of both KH and DBZ, new "heroes" only pop up to keep the cash cow going, not because it was ever planned for the story. People love money.
I love how Sora and Riku claim to be keyblade masters in KH1 just because they have a keyblade then once they finally meet others and see what mess they got themselves into they actually have to be tested to become masters.
I rly wish I could get behind the whole mark fo mastery thing but honestly Sora I'd the only real master with Riku as a runner up. Sora saved the universe multiple times against these 'masters' like Xehanort. The title means nothing.
Yen Sid took their abilities away so they'd have to start from scratch, and then acted surprised when Sora lost his abilities and had to start from scratch and then failed him for getting kidnapped by the evil time-traveling wizard he already knew was looking for him. Dude's a crappy teacher.
Yes
He failed him for getting tempted by darkness. As Xigbar said, Sora’s heart led him into the Organization’s clutches. And falling into sleep was falling into darkness. Riku passed the test pretty much cuz he came back with the goal. The Power of Waking
But Xemnas also said they knew he'd be there because their time traveling self from the future told them so, purposefully intercepted him, placed a literal giant X on him for his journey and then put a hypnosis spell on him. Like at some point it just stops being Soras fault.
Right, Yen Sid is a hack, dude is a keyblade wielder and yet never helps in KH2
I generally don't trust people who have beards without moustaches
Riku was also followed, but they weren’t able to do anything to him cuz he had become resistant to darkness. Sora just didn’t have that resistance and follows his heart to impulsively for his own good
Sora didn't follow his heart there though, the organisation intercepted him and forced him to end up in The World That Never Was. He was basically kidnapped. You're blaming the victim for the crime. And given that Riku is resistant to darkness because he fell to darkness, the other part is saying that Sora isn't master material because he didn't turn evil when he could have. Which is stupid. They are saying that Riku is master material because of what made Terra fail, and they disqualified Sora for the same thing that made Aqua pass. Also they did not track Riku, ONLY Sora. They specifically say so.
I meant that while Sora was in his dreams him following his heart led him closer and closer to darkness. Which is what the Organization wanted Also like I said earlier, Riku passed the test because he completed the task. He got the Power of Waking and used it to save Sora. Edit: Yes, Sora specifically was tracked with the Recusant’s Sigil. But like I said, Riku was also followed. Remember, they talked to Riku plenty of times during his journey
To be fair, part of the rules of time travel mean that there has to be a version of the person present in the time and place they're traveling to. They knew Riku's full possession began in Hollow Bastion, none of them put together that it technically began on the islands and that the brown robed figure was Xehanort until after the test began, at which point it was too late. Yen Sid took a gamble to try and get them power they needed in a way Xehanort couldn't interfere with, and it failed because Xehanort's whole *thing* was "I planned for almost everything ever".
Iirc Sora never really called himself that, others did
Hey I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. Sometimes characters are unreliable sources of information. Either because they are lying or were lied to or simply made a wrong assumption. Shocking, I know. KH1 Riku was being manipulated by Maleficent and Ansem and part of that manipulation involved making Riku think that Sora is stealing what is rightfully his (the keyblade) and in order for that manipulation to work he has to believe there's only ONE keyblade.
It was a mistranslation but this would have definitely worked. If Riku would have known that he can just create a new one the story would be definitely different.
Well technically stealing his Keyblade was right tho
Well remember that Riku here is still a kid. One hopped up on Darkness at that He mellowed out after some time
Meanwhile these so called Keyblade Masters couldn’t defeat Aqua after she decided to take a quick swim in some darkness.
Well, she had some help.
Well it's canon that darkness does make someone stronger and Aqua was already a master. Plus to be honest, KH3 had a huge main character syndrome and refused to let anyone but Sora achive anything at all so Aqua had plot armor until Sora appeared.
I know it’s a mistranslation but to be fair Riku and Sora didn’t know anything about… well… ANYTHING back in KH1. Plus Riku was so blinded by his power, ego, and pride it makes sense for him at this time to assume that there can only be one Keyblade Master, and that he is that master
Yeah. His entire motivation is pretty much that he hates being scooped up on a tiny island knowing nothing of the world, so it makes sense that he had no idea that outside of his world a keyblade is a common household appliance that everyone and their mom has in their attic.
And the lies start PILING UP
It still makes sense if we assume he meant the same keyblade. Because they were both "sharing" the kingdom key. However, now that I think about it, xion also has the kingdom key... How does that work? 🤔
Riku called out Xion's keyblade as a fake. She just copied Sora's power. Sora was also out at the time so even if it was his, she was just borrowing it like Roxas.
That almost makes sense, but it doesn't. If I recall correctly, roxas and xion used the kingdom key at the same time, in 358/2days. Also, she had the kingdom key in kingdom hearts 3, when she came back. How does it work then? Plus, this is all ignoring the fact that roxas has two keyblades, which are technically the kingdom key with different key chains. I'm just assuming those are different keyblades, for some reason.
Well Xion was absorbing Roxas' ability so she stole his keyblade eventually, but before that hers was just a facsimile. Roxas using two I can't remember if it was confirmed but I think it was him using Sora and Ventus' keyblades since they are all connected. Ventus' keyblade just took the form of a kingdom key
Data Sora has a kingdom key. And it's confirmed to be an actual keyblade.
Hmm... I guess we can chalk it up to them all being sora, so they all get the kingdom key.
I see it as being the kingdom key of the data scape. Like Sora's is of the light and Mickey's is of the dark.
That would be neat.
Eventually it was. At the beginning it wasn't, and just like Xion's there was a time frame where it got shattered and was unusable for a bit, only to evolve into enough of a person to turn it into a real one. It served as a proof of concept for the attempt to recreate Roxas from data that Zexion was working on KH3.
It's still an extra kingdom key.
Yea, mostly just pointing iut more details of the situation, that it didn't just pop into existence as a full-fledged Keyblade as soon as the game started.
True. Although xion did briefly take roxas's.
And then he proudly wielded a stick for a few hours XD
Yap. Apparently a stick can briefly destroy heartless. I like how days should the other organization members using magic besides their elements, good thing they did use them when we fight them.
To be fair Roxas does have a higher level of "beat the everloving shit out of things" than Sora does. Like Ansem's computers...and Ansem's body projection hologram, among other things XD
It makes sense either way. Riku had forgotten about meeting Terra as confirmed by Nomura, and how was he supposed to know that everyone and their mom has a keyblade when literally everyone Sora and Riku met in KH1 kept going on about how "The keyblade" is this legendary thing that only appears in legend. Even Maleficent who has already been beaten up by other keyblades multiple times. Sora and Riku had no way of knowing that there were other keyblades.
“Riku you’ve literally met two”
Eraqus: “But it all ends here. There can’t be two Keyblade masters.” Terra: “You son of a bitch.”
Mistranslation and unreliable narrator aside, am I the only person that took it to mean that one keyblade couldn't have two masters? "This town ain't big enough for the both of us." Doesn't imply that there are no other towns.
That's how I took it
No I assumed that Riku ment there's only one keyblade and it belongs to him. But to be fair, he lived on a tiny island for all his life and everyone in KH1 kept pretending like the keyblade is a one-of-a-kind legendary artifact. Even Maleficent never brings up that she has already been stabbed by more keyblades than Riku will ever see in his life, so how was Sora or Riku supposed to know there's multiple? Yeah Riku met Terra but he was super young then and forgot, as stated by Nomura. Also we obviously didn't know BBS by the time KH1 released.
The Fucking Keyblade Graveyard
Well... Only one of them got to be a master
Wait til he finds out about the Keyblade War
We could always chalk it up to them being kids and they dont truly know the bigger world around them. For all they knew, the Kingdom Key was the only keyblade in existence. How were they supposed to know "Keyblade master" is a real term
I mean, even in this context, neither of them knew there were other wielders. As far as Riku and Sora knew at this point, they were the only two that could use a keyblade.
That's three keyblade masters not two
A simpler time 🥹
Im sure that at some point in time (in the early 00’s perhaps) Nomura believed this to be true himself.
I don't know about that one. He wasn't even the only keyblade bearer in that game.
Was it them 2 then? Genuinely curious!
Yeah Mickey had a keyblade in KH1
Yeah, howd I forget!
Sora, Riku, Mickey and Roxas There’s 4 keyblades in KH1
Is Roxas in KH1 though? Howd I forget about Mickey, lol.
Look up the secret ending of KH1
To be fair the secret movie is it's own can of worms from the meta sense, Mickey having a keyblade was clearly intended to be a big reveal (and goes along the whole light/darkness thingy) while the secret movie is them basically going for the coolest thing they could come up with as it was more of a proof of concept and retroactively worked with it.
Rikus keyblade is a fake though (except you mean when he's wielding the Kingdom Key but that's just Soras keyblade so still counts as one). And Roxas isn't in KH1. Nomura said that the KH1 and KH2 secret endings are just cool scenes they came up with for fun, they had no idea who these characters were or that there'd even be story left to tell at this point. He didn't know who Roxas was for the KH1 secret ending, nor that the guy in the armor in the secret ending for KH2 wasn't Roxas but a new character called Ven. Both those secret endings were just "let's just animate a badass keyblade battle" and nothing more at the time.
for the morons who still dont realise it its a misstranslation cause square enix they never said the word master in the game its either hero or user
I feel like I'm going to say this a lot too. Nomura absolutely would retcon a fuck ton of things if Square ever remade KH1. It'd be good for Square too since it pushes people to play who already know the story to see what changed.
Damnit I hate time travel.
We see more than one Keyblade by the end of KH1.
I guess people can't take a joke. Man this is one reason I try not to give my opinion.
Where is the joke?
The part where I say I hate Time Travel!! Of course as a Fan of The Flash, Sonic, and Kingdom Hearts I don't hate Time Travel. I just have trouble wrapping my Ape brain around the Whole concept. I said I hate Time Travel, and Oh look got down Voted. It was just a joke. I'm well aware how Forking Wrong Riku was at this moment. I was just stating something I THOUGHT would be funny, but I guess people took that as me attacking Kingdom Hearts.
Nobody here would know you are joking just based off the comment you left.
Maybe, but A downvote is not Warranted.
I said it once elsewhere , and I’ll say it here again . he said ' there can’t be **two** keyblade masters ' which is still true because we have many keyblade masters now
At the time there were only 2 keyblade masters. Keyblade master aqua, and keyblade master mickey.
Is Yen Sid not considered a Master still at this point?
They don't call him "master yen sid" for nothing!
Wait, has anyone actually addressed Mickey as Master?
i mean that was true when as far as he knew there was only one keyblade. its not like meleficent or ansem would see any reason to tell him its not even like it's a retcon in this case because he gets proven wrong one hour of gameplay later when he gets possessed by ansem and has a keyblade from then on
A fake keyblade, though. But obviously a few more hours later Mickey whips one out too so yeah.
Incomplete rather than fake. Mild difference but still worth noting.
I mean, there can't be two keyblade masters because there's more than 2. By that logic, he's not *entirely* wrong?
He was right tho: there can't be two. We gotta have more!
Nomura: You are part of the series but we don't grant you the rank of master. Sora: That's unfair!
And that’s on the beginning of BBS and the end of 3D.🤣🤣🤣
It's certainly not like Star Wars where you can have many jedis but 2 siths. Wait now that I think about it there has been sith moments. Xehanort and Ventus, Xehanort and Vanitus, Xehanort and Terra, Xehanort and Riku, and Xigbar and Xehanort.
KH1: Sora is THE chosen wielder of THE Keyblade. Also KH1: Mickey also has a keyblade. KH2: Kairi is given a keyblade out of thin air. Also, Riku has a keyblade. Also, Roxas has two keyblades. Also, there's a giant field of keyblades somewhere. *>>* KH3: Sora hurls a barrage of keyblades at a Heartless tornado while riding a wave of keyblades-- ok hol up
I always thought it was so interesting how people can take a fact or any information, from a game or media, and just say things like this. Because the settings of the world are usually never fully fleshed out until 4 games later with over 20 years of difference. It’s like a law of reality can just change because someone updated the world. “There can’t be more than one Keyblade master” 1st game that’s true “Everybody gets a Keyblade!” 13th game that’s true What I’m trying to say is, is that it doesn’t feel right to just call anyone wrong.
First game had Mickey show up with a different keyblade at the end so it wasn't even correct in that same game
Except most people assumed it was because it was the Keyblade from a different dimension. The most common theory I heard when the game came out was that there are 3 Keyblades. One for each dimension and then there are synthetic keyblades like the Blade of Hearts
I interpret this line as "A keyblade can't have two masters". But also he doesn't know shit about fuck yet, he only knew of the one keyblade.
It can be interpreted simply as: two persons can't be the master of the same keyblade at the same time.
Then it turns out that during Chains of Memories both Sora and Roxas where using the same Keyblade.
Roxas was literally Sora by then. They shared mostly everything until Roxas started to be his own person.
Yep. And during that time their Keyblade was in two places at the same time.
Sora falls asleep on day 49. Most of Days happens with Roxas having the keyblade all for himself. It is not clarified if the keyblade is existing for both at the same time or if they are swapping it without knowing. Either way, again: I don't get the point you are trying to make. We are talking about Sora and Sora-but-not-Sora being both the masters of the same keyblade, this does not contradict the first point of "two persons can't control the same keyblade". The detail here is that Sora and Roxas were the same person at the beggining (and stayed that way for a good while).
this part of the timeline is so confusing to me so both sora and roxas were out and about doing stuff at the same time??? even though nobodies aren’t supposed to do that??? and then naminé is also doing the same thing with kairi during kh1 and she sticks around even after sora seppukus himself to get her heart back??
The only requirement for a Nobody to be created is for the Heart of a sufficiently willful individual leave a body as a Heartless is created. Roxas was originally going to be an ordinary Nobody. When Sora’s Heartless was restored to a human form, Roxas’ creation was left incomplete leaving him without memories. Sora can operate while Roxas is active because ,with the exeption of the Keyblade, he is not using what Roxas is using. Naminé was created because the requirements to create a Nobody where met. Kairi’s Heart left a body as a Heartless was created. It doesn’t matter that Kairi cannot become a Heartless. A Heartless was still created when her Heart left a body, Sora’s Heartless was created when Sora’s and Kairi’s Hearts left Sora’s body. Naminé is Kairi’s Nobody and not Sora’s because she is the result of Kairi’s Heart leaving a body as a Heartless was created while Roxas is the result of Sora’s Heart doing the same. Naminé’s main difference from a regular Nobody is that she did not took anything from kairi due to Kairi’s body being unavailable as it was not involved in the process and she did not took anything from Sora because Sora’s body being claimed by Roxas because he is Sora’s Nobody. Naminé was made out of nothing. Naminé can operate while Kairi is active because Naminé uses nothing.
Nice joke. Oh wait you are serious.
they just keep handing these things ouT LIKE LOLLIPOPS
Little did Riku know, Sora would solo the organization like 5 times and still not be a master. 💀
Ok but does this line foreshadow that 2 people can never both pass the mark of mastery at the same time
Nah, because Xehenort fucked with Aqua/Ven/Terra's Mark of Mastery exam to push Terra and Ven to darkness, and then almost Norted Sora, so with him gone multiple keyblade wielders should be able to pass at the same time.
I meant the fact that the next test Sora fell to the darkness and couldn’t pass either
Up vote for og Yao Ming meme
I mean, there aren't 2. There are way MORE than 2.