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Chaos_Incarnate43

A fine just means it's legal for a price....


bosozokulove

Thats not nearly enough money. Try Billion instead of million and maybe thatll get their attention


[deleted]

A fucking drop in the bucket. Put them all in prison.


Totorolly

I hope a hell of a lot more of these awards are handed out. I would like the laws changed so these predatory companies have to face jail, fines and life in prison for killing people. Because that is basically what they did, for money. It is disgusting. The supposed law did the same thing with Opiates, many people were abandoned by their doctors and Congress set it up so the Industry would fail from self regulation causing heart attacks, strokes and other issues from lack of medication and increased vascular incidents because of pain makes your blood pressure skyrocket like crazy. They also made it possible for others to get hooked by tying the hands of the DEA, you could have sent 5 million Oxycontin ER pills to a doctor right next to a school.


Elexeh

Fines are cool, but how about some prison time for fraud?


nobodyman

And the fine isn't big enough to alter their behavior. Mylan [earned nearly 3 billion revenue in 2020](https://investor.mylan.com/news-releases/news-release-details/mylan-announces-third-quarter-2020-financial-results-and-looks#:~:text=6%2C%202020%20%2FPRNewswire%2F%20%2D%2D,months%20ended%20September%2030%2C%202020%20.&text=Total%20revenues%20of%20%242.97%20billion,to%20the%20prior%20year%20period). They'll just raise their prices.   *edit: typos*


[deleted]

Talk about burying the lede: Joe Manchin’s daughter engineered the 460% increase in price for EpiPens and received a huge bonus as well as a Platinum parachute when she retired in 2020. Mylan lobbied for legislative changes that would require all schools, daycares, etc. to have them on hand at all times prior to that. I’m sure ole Huckleberry fuckface Manchin ensured all of that for some stock options. Our legislators *codify* their corruption.


I-Had-A-Library

They also went to court to block a competing product from being approved for Medicare.


chefknifelover

What's a platinum parachute vs golden?


PinkTrench

I'm fine with legislation requiring epinephrine autoinjectors in every government building where people eat food. An Epi-Pen requirement is blatant corruption though, effective generics exist.


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PinkTrench

Yeah, I just looked into it, there are DEFINITELY generics availible for epipen. They might have some patent for some bells and whistles on theirs, but autoinjectors and epinephrine are both old as shit.


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PinkTrench

I agree that Mylan uses anti-competetive practices to maintain a monopoly long after its state granted one expired . They don't have rights to epinephrine auto-injectors though, just to the name epi-pen. A lot of people can only get epi-pens because of contracts with pharmacies and insurers. I think those are shitty and should be regulated out of existence. These contracts don't matter to a procurer as large as the federal government though.


[deleted]

You didn’t read the link so I’ll copypasta the courts judgement: In granting Mylan’s motion for summary judgement, the district court not only turned a blind eye to long-established and foundational antitrust laws, but also disregarded the well-being of millions of Americans who rely on the EpiPen to prevent potentially fatal anaphylactic reactions. The district court adopted heightened and unjustified legal burdens in order to excuse Mylan’s exclusionary practices. The court’s decision frees monopolists to use exclusive dealing to impede rivals and preserve their dominance. The Sherman Act prohibits such monopolistic behavior. The 10th Circuit must rectify this brazen protection of monopolies and uphold anti-monopoly rules on fair competition.


PinkTrench

I read the whole article. I just reread the portion you posted Nothing in it states that Mylan has a patent on epinephrine autoinjectors. This is tech from the 80s, friend. Patents don't last that long. Edit: So since /u/josephwelch718 likes to block folks when they politely and in good faith prove them to be incorrect I'll need to respond to his next comment here. This is copypasta from the literal site you linked: " Manufacturers of Epinephrine We sell Epinephrine manufactured by the top reputable companies in the industry, including: Healthfirst - Auvi-Q™ Epinephrine Auto-Injector Mylan Pharmaceuticals - Epipen® Amedra Pharmaceuticals - Epinephrine Auto-Injector End quote. " Literally listing two other companies manufacturing epinephrine autoinjectors.


PinkTrench

Huh....weird. I KNOW that while working in a hospital pharmacy I saw and handled generic epinephrine autoinjectors. Maybe there's a different kind thats fine for medical professionals to use but not laymen... this demands research.


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PinkTrench

What's this? https://m.goodrx.com/adrenaclick


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PinkTrench

Bro, multiple companies make and market epinephrine autoinjectors in the United States. I do not understand your position on this, clearly.


CyrilAdekia

Can we start to use "X years of gross annual revenue" as a fine? So if Corrupt Inc. Has a gross Annual revenue for the most recent tax year of 4 billion dollars, a fine of "2 years gross annual revenue" would be 8 billion. And maybe these companies would stop screwing everything that sits still long enough


Cautious-Lie9383

From your lips to lawmakers' ears.


CyrilAdekia

Pft like that would matter. Can't have them damaging their own portfolio


RedTalon19

I dislike the idea of future profits because they can always cook the books to show minimal "profits" for the duration. Why not look at past profits, like take a percentage of quarterly earnings reports for the entirety of the illegal activity. Oh, 8 years of bullshit... we now take 25% of the last 32 quarterly earnings reports you sent to your investors. Better hope those shareholders dont get too pissed and demand a new CEO and board of directors (omg capitalism at work!)


CyrilAdekia

>I dislike the idea of future profits I'm not sure where you got that because it's the polar opposite of what I said. Gross revenue is *all of the money that flowed into the business* not just profit, and by using the most recent tax years reported revenue we ensure that the amount stays consistent with the company's size.


jratreddit

Real Headline: Corporation defrauds Medicaid and millions of Americans and is charged less than 2% of their annual revenue as a slap-on-the-wrist fine, to which they replied: "we're gonna do it again. we made godloads of money, fuck everyone else."


MomoKun999

Meh, not enough to stop them from doing it again. >:(


DweEbLez0

That’s a good amount to pay off some student loans though.


[deleted]

manchin is against that too.


MomoKun999

That’s where it *should* have gone, since they screwed the kids who needed it, and those kids should be covered. I know I wouldn’t complain if it were my kids, and their loans got repaid instead.


Darth_Malort

Headline should read "Big pharma gives more money to government"


hensothor

Not a bad fine. How long were their prison sentences?


peterkedua

400 mill is tiny tho.... very, very tiny....


hensothor

Meh. The money really doesn’t matter that much. Even if they did an exorbitant fine of billions I don’t think it would be a tenth as persuasive as even a two year sentence. But yeah, this is still very profitable for them.


PM_to_cheer_me_up

Not long enough?


hensothor

Yes. Infinitely so.


doyouunderstandlife

This is a slap on the wrist. They will continue to do this because $465 million compared to the billions they get for pulling this shit is nothing.


hardcorehurdler

The fine should be this amount plus the profits off the revenue from the epipens.


turtle1155

Good thing they have to pay this to medicaid and not the actual people that need this life saving medicine


Darth_Malort

Precisely! Instead, MORE money will change hands between the government and big pharma and the cycle continues without pause.


Sugarsmacks420

If the "fine" is less money then they made, then the "fine" is meaningless to them.


TheDetailNerd

It's just the cost of doing business, I'm sure they just roll it in and use it as a tax credit


hardcorehurdler

Business write off 👍


Unshtuckinthyme

You see this and think "oh, well greed is a thing but thank God our representatives are on it" but they're not on it. They're in on it. This is intentional. The illusion of justice. They'll do it again. And it'll be worth it. Again.


ImCoryIngman

Can we stop calling these fines (which are miniscule in comparison to the profits attained from the crimes being fined) "massive"? It's counterproductive to change, and is just unnecessary from a literary standpoint. This continues the false narrative that fines should be an acceptable form of justice, when I believe most Americans would see this for the tactless, rich man's loophole it is. Jail the bastards, when you do crimes you go to prison, it's really simple for the rest of us.


Rejic54

Nice adding the word "massive" there when they've been making billions in profit for years, this amount is a drop in the bucket.


InternetDeli

“Massive”


Cheese_is_milk_loaf

I don't see justice. Then again, America likes to imprison the poor way more than they like to give actual consequences to the rich who are able to pay those "fines" they get 100x over.


bobkatpollo

Yay America!


Pineappleninja91

But I had to pay 198 dollars for my Tetanus booster because Medicaid wouldn’t cover it?! ? Tf medicaid, epipen got fined 465 million dollars because they were ripping y’all off. Meanwhile y’all stalking me and still happily took my money saying “thank you for your payment” bitch I want a refund, y’all felt ripped off? Shit me too.


LFoD313

Fuck them. Epipens are so expensive and so fragile. They need to be kept in the perfect temp band. They also expire rapidly.


Mildly-Displeased

Epipens aren't Free in America? But it is litterally "The land of the free"


SeVenMadRaBBits

Yet we imprison more people than any other country...


hypotheticalhalf

That’s Senator Joe Manchin’s daughter who profited off the deaths and misery of people, btw. Whole family is fucking garbage.


_clap_

To whom?


fatherofgodfather

Yeah that's why insurance companies don't want single payer insurance.


jojohohanon

Ok: screwing over patients and consumers, denying life saving medicine by selling at massive markup to costs. Not ok: screwing over Medicaid and the government.


[deleted]

you mean capitalist dipping there hands into the biggest pot of money. The American Tax Dollar.


Dave716273838281

Also all these patients that they ripped off, will get a fat check for $0


lambs1111

This article is from 2016.


Puma_punch

465 M is what % of their total value? or compared to the revenue? I suspect it's not as "massive" as you'd think.


FalseMob

Hey that’s manchins daughter


eddyb66

The poop doesn't fall far from the poop tree


PurSolutions

Massive fine??? It's still a fortune to buy... right? So how's this help


tattered_teddy28

True, thought about havin to stop chargin people for it, but that would only last a minute. seriously sad that this makes no dif to the real people who are still being overcharged now;(


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jsgrova

Yes, and the woman in the thumbnail is his daughter


[deleted]

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jsgrova

They are quintessential Democrats


thomport

How much did they make during the great-ripoff. Much more then the fine. This is evil American health care at its finest.


schnorgelthorpe

My exact thought. Sounds like a lot of money until you think about how insanely bloated these companies are.


RoBOticRebel108

That's a flaw of the justice system Complying with the law MUST ALWAYS be cheaper than to break it. Just increase the fine to like 10% their annual turnover or a few billion dollars (whichever is greater).


thomport

Unfortunately, I suspect they’re part owners of the American Justice system.


shogunmike79

They forgot the part about how the CEO is Joe Manchin's (D - Senator Virginia) daughter. He (along with many other members of both parties in both houses) paved the way for this abuse by passing legislation that boosted government purchasing of epipen. Couple that with a 2003ish law that bans government negotiating prices (see medicare, Medicaid, and schools) on bulk purchases. It's all theatrics to cover up the profiteering they created. https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2021/09/manchin-large-campaign-contributions-epipen-scandal/ https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-business-congress-health-care-reform-medicare-756e3255a1cb4ab8c813151aec19b60c


[deleted]

wow!


Glandus73

I wouldn't say it's served, it's like getting a 50 dollars fine for having stolen a thousand dollar. You are still 950 up on what you were before.


tattered_teddy28

Should have to donate $465 mil of epipens to give away for free.


Scall123

They would raise the price of epipens momentarily to just about $465 million and give away 1.


Jonny1247

Then they'd just mark up the price to $465 million per EpiPen


selouts

Just jack up the price of 1 epipen to $465 million and donate 1 epipen. Problem solved!


Bl00dyDruid

So patients are getting a refund/rebate?


MyNameAintWheels

So... for ripping off Medicaid but not all the people who died, neat


betweenskill

As usual, like with Theranos, the punishment comes from defrauding the owner class and their protectors, not for hurting working class people.


MuskokaReel

I have to buy a few of these things a year, as its more convenient to keep them at the locations you frequently go than to try to remember to take it with you all the time. Keep one with Work, at home, keep one in my jacket. only once have I actually had to use it, thankfully I had it with me. They're quite expensive and expire after one year. Also to anyone that has epi pens, you need to keep them at room temperature. Forgot it in your car for a few minutes on a hot/cold day? welp, gotta get a new one now.


Willzyx_on_the_moon

Expiration date is totally a joke. Had to use one on my MIL recently after she began to develop angioedema from a med she got at the hospital. Expired 10 years prior. Worked just as it should. Expirations on many medications are a joke.


MuskokaReel

I'm probably pretty off base here but I believe it has to do with half-life. While they'll still work beyond exporation their effectiveness is reduced. I'd rather not roll the dice with my life If I can, I'll take my doctors advice and buy some new ones every year. I just wish they were less, they're obviously marked up by an insane margin.


azfeels

Half life applies to its effect when in the body. You are probably thinking of radioactive material half-life, where a material just sitting there will decay. Medicine half life refers to how long it lasts in the body.


MuskokaReel

Yeah I was thinking of material half life. Thanks for the clarification.


_Oman

The last time this came up, some pretty good Internet sleuths found out that the FDA requires certain classes of medications to be tested for certain minimum lengths of time. The drug companies ONLY test for that minimum length of time and then they are allowed to report the shelf life as that length of time. When you think about it a year is completely arbitrary. Some drugs start to break down after only a few days (usually liquids that are formulated at the pharmacy when dispensed.) My guess is that if they were forced to, the drug company would find the the epipen would last much longer.


Kubrik27

Not a large fine


stalinmalone68

How about some jail time?


ghostalker4742

This is America, we don't jail rich people, unless they steal from other rich people. Stealing from the poors is fine though.


trippydancingbear

no no. we don't punish people that bribe politicians. we call them *resources*


ElegantAnalysis

What's that like? 2 EpiPens on discount?


Zhosha-Khi

NOT enough!


[deleted]

Massive? This is chump change and barely a dent in any type of civil punishment. Let me draw it out for you in numbers so you can better understand. In 2020, EpiPen made this much ($1.3 billion): $1,300,000,000 The "fine" is this much ($465 million): $465,000,000 ​ In case you still haven't figure it out: Mylan made nearly 3x as much money in revenue than the fine is worth, meaning the fine does \*nothing\* to the company financially. Nothing. The company still profits. Yet you cheer for this "victory"? Capitalism isn't the only thing wrong in this country.


Connguy

I mean... 1/3 of annual revenue is a pretty debilitating hit for a single fine. Not sure what percent of their rev is profit, but this could have single-handedly eradicated their profit for a year.


uslashuname

As others have pointed out these things are cheap as hell to make, but what they haven’t emphasized is the fine is 1/3 of profit (or revenue, basically the same number in this case) for 2020. They’ve been ramping up the price for decades, far from being massive this fine is a drop in the bucket and an encouragement to any company considering similar assfuckery.


savehoward

Over 90%. Cost to manufacture an epipen is less than $30. Epipens are priced at $300 each.


WithCheezMrSquidward

Fines should be the profit + 25%


fosiacat

“massive fine” equal to what? 45 minutes worth of profits?


BeepBeepImASheep98

Since both my little brother and best friend have critical food allergies, this is amazing. Fuck the makers of EpiPen


T-800_UncleBob

The fine shouldn't be a number. It should be all of the profits from a period of time.


muttonshirt

Which would still be expressed as a number...


T-800_UncleBob

Can't argue with that. So it shouldn't be a portion of the profits but the profits themselves.


xSikes

That's what you get you stupid son of bitches


StephCurryMustard

I wish I could rob a bank, and after I get caught I just pay off a fine equaling about 5% of what I stole then just walk away with the rest.


MonochromeMaru

You know how much it would cost me to get one epipen a year if I didn’t have insurance? $350. I’m supposed to own two. They deserve this.


SheepDogGamin

I hate the fact that they can refuse the settlement amount and drag it out in court. The people have won yet the company can make life hell for those being reimbursed.


nuclear_bacon_

what the fuck will a fine do? These criminals are still in public doing as they wish…. No questions asked….should involve handcuffs and 50 thread count orange jumpers.


Particular_Range_471

A fine makes a crime legal as long as the convicted can pay. Sadly, what is likely to happen is that decision-makers (C-suites, Managers, Supervisors) who okayed this theft will keep their salaries, benefits, golden parachutes, and lifestyle. But to make up the $465 million all the labor, and non-decision-making staff will be laid off. If the current President and Progressive Democrats were not such worthless dogmatic human beings we could see actual efforts however small to make the more money and benefits one earns the harsher the penalties. Like they do in Norway where for example speeding tickets fines are calculated based on one's income. How come we see all these massive fines for corporations breaking laws, regulations or being dishonest as the case here yet they are still able to be in business? Will the DOJ and Congress investigate Big Pharma to see how much they overcharged the taxpayer via the gov't for their shots?


mmmeeeeeeeeehhhhhhh

This is not a democrats vs republicans problem, they're in on it together. This is a corporate greed running america problem.


TheRufmeisterGeneral

The website blocked the entire EU because of our privacy laws (GDPR). Does anyone have a summary, for us Europeans? (What happened to the summary bot?)


ReticulatingSplines7

Yes. The women CEO is Senator Joe Manchin’s daughter.


headfirst_humanity

Check the receipts on her MBA from West Virginia U https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West\_Virginia\_University\_M.B.A.\_controversy


107197

So that's two strikes... ​ (Edit: No, I don't really believe that the sins of the parents should reflect on the offspring. I'm just venting steam. Maybe I should mutter "sorry son of a bitch..."


jcadsexfree

Yes, the sins of the parent does reflect on the offspring if that parent is a super-powerful supporter of fossil fuels and an ultimate neoliberalist, and against government regulations that could protect the environment. Apple doesn't fall far from the tree; Manchin hurts America, his daughter Bresch hurts America, all for profits over people. Notice a pattern ? Assume you as a person lack empathy and principles and want to make money. Would you be able to head a major pharma company and rake in billions, while defrauding Medicare? I think not ! But if you were the child of a very powerful senator . . .


107197

While I agree with you 110%, I just didn't want to automatically presume. But you're right - the actions of the two people involved indicate that one very likely learned ethics from the other. You know, like the Trump family.


Phil330

How many of the executives will be going to prison? Oh, wait - I forgot, this is good ole capitalist USA - only the peasants go to prison.


Firehawkness

Justice was not in fact served in this case…..


Ecstatic-Candle4973

Where does the fine go???


B0SS_H0GG

Lawyers.


LukeLovesLakes

Thankfully they made Billions by making people pay too much for Epipens.


mrhhug

Yeah, seems like they got away with it. And made money. And see this exactly is what people don't understand when I tell them laws are a suggestion in the US, ain't even no one going to jail over this. It makes sense for them to do this


TheRynoceros

$465 million is only massive if you don't manufacture epipens.


PurpleSailor

$10 worth of drug in a $360 self injector. Complete bullshit.


berael

Annual profits: $11 billion One-time fine: $0.4 billion So basically they're being told to keep doing it. No justice served.


SEILogistics

So it’s equivalent to someone making $50,000/year getting a $1400 fine


berael

No, it's the equivalent of someone committing $50,000 worth of crimes every year for several years, getting caught, being fined $1400 and being allowed to keep all the rest that they stole, then being allowed to walk away free and clear.


Messiadbunny

It'd be ~$1,800 but it's comparing apples to oranges. Billions in profit versus $50k is nothing. Also, it's a fraction of what they basically stole. It's like an employee making $50k annually, robbed a bank last year for 20 million and had to pay a fine of less than a million.


[deleted]

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SEILogistics

What’s fica?


DawnOfTheTruth

Keep in mind when well off individuals claim that, “Uncle Sam always gets a cut.” They are talking about this right here. Cut of their I’ll gotten gains so they can keep on operating as usual.


Victor-Romeo

Small pennies for big crime


wklepacki

Anyone else notice that they purposefully neglected to mention that Miss Bresch is the daughter of the totally non-corrupt senator Manchin, whom he helped get this position and supported her ripping off the entire country? Let’s put the whole goddamn family in jail where they belong.


OMGimaDONKEY

"massive" GTFOH with that shit. make that first letter after the numbers start with a b.


ty_1_mill

People should be stripped of their companies when they trade lives for profit. Fines do not work .


SEILogistics

Fines are just a tax for breaking the law. They make $11 billion a year profit and pay a one time fine of $0.4b. The fine should be multiples of the profit Imagine if the justice system treated other criminals like drug dealers that way Make $50,000/year selling coke and pay a one time $1400 fine if you get caught. It wouldn’t change any behaviour at all


poke30

Hey, maybe have the public take ownership of it :)


GKrollin

There are countries that do that if you want to check them out


Cloud9_Cadet420

They literally put martin shkreli in jail when he did this. During the case i believe he asked why he is getting in so much trouble when all of the pharmaceutical companies do it. I guess he just wasn't in the big pharma click so he actually got consequences... Edit. Jail was for fraud. He was kicked from the pharmaceutical industry for raising prices along with a 64 million dollar fine.


neotek

Martin Shkreli went to jail for fraud, it had nothing whatsoever to do with Daraprim price gouging.


Storm_treize

I think he got in jail for tax fraud, the price fixing would have been a fine


Cloud9_Cadet420

They banned him for life from the pharmaceutical industry for raising the drug prices and has to pay 64 million. The jail was for the fraud. But these guys arent getting banned from the industry. Just a fine and they are on their way to continue raising prices.


Acceptable-Regret398

Curious. What happens to the fine? Does it get distributed in any way to the people who massively overpaid for the epi pens? I’m guessing probably not…


SickPirouettes

The fine is for defrauding Medicaid not for price gouging. They were essentially claiming their Epipens were generics to get the government to pay more. Their mistake was trying to ripoff the government instead of just the people. Nothing will change except for maybe the price goes up to make up for the fine.


Acceptable-Regret398

Thanks for the clarification. So much disappointment in the the current system.


_domdomdom_

Also will the price of the epipens even come back down?


[deleted]

The price is going to change like how my insulin price changes... Up


Acceptable-Regret398

Sadly, I think you’re right.


JimiThing716

Haha absolutely not.


ThailurCorp

Chump change.


StuckWithThisOne

Wow that fixes everything.


Nikon_Justus

Time to raise the price to make up for their loss.


Statement-Think

Ah yes a fine that they could make back in like a day.


ahundredheys

"Massive"


OrdinaryCactusFlower

In terms of financial hurt, this is the equivalent of ripping off a bandaid for them


Revolvyerom

Massive fine? Does it even come close to the profit generated? Is anyone going to jail?


NoctotainRose

That is nothing to a pharma company. You want to relly hurt them? Force them to sell epipens dirt cheap because of this


IAmFitzRoy

This is 5 years old article and EpiPens are more expensive than ever today…. How is this justice served?


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PM_Me__Ur_Freckles

>The price of an EpiPen pack rose 23% a year on average between 2007 and 2016. Inflation has averaged less than 2% a year over the same period. The. Fuck. That means a $50 pen in 2007 cost near enough to $322.20 in 2016.


Seutepan

Part of the Problem is the American Healthcare System that allows the prices to rise that high. In Germany the equivalent cost 150€ in 2016 for a 2pack. But supply and demand will regulate that problem. /s


PleX

They should be fined a fucking lot more than that. A kid we fostered had deadly reactions to bee/wasp stings. Before the State got his medical insurance figured out, I had to pay for like 20 of the damn EpiPens because we live down the road from a huge bee farm. Had to keep one in every room, every vehicle, every atv, the boat and one with us at all times. I paid out the fucking ass for them all. Fuck the manufacturers.


wklepacki

Well, When your daddy, Joe Manchin, is one of the most corrupt members of congress and is essentially LARPing as president , you too will get away with this shit.