T O P

Interception

Interception

Dull_Introduction447

Imagine crying because a purely defensive system that only saves lives will now save even more lives


PollyannaPenny

AOC: "Waaaah!! More Jewish people are going to remain alive!!!" 😭


highblacksky7

lol seriously. Crying over a defense system that has saved countless lives. Not a good look. Out of all the things to oppose between the Israel-US relationship, why the Iron Dome? They're all over the place too. They're like no it's just that we shouldn't pay for it. Actually it's for Palestinian rights. O wait no that doesn't make sense. I mean yeah we stand for Palestinian rights. Dumb. And the Iron Dome is also kind of awesome...


PollyannaPenny

AOC is a moron. She probably doesn't even know what the Iron Dome is


highblacksky7

There’s someone in NYT whose been trying run something about the “secrecy” of Israel’s nuclear capabilities. It’s like dude, go on Wikipedia and look up the 73 war and you will see Israel has had nuclear capabilities since the 70s. Americans are dumb.


TheInklingsPen

Imagine arguing about the secrecy of a program some 22 year old Estonian detailed on a popular public information database... NYT keeps running an op-ed whining about how *unfair* it is that a CEO of a medical technology company who defrauded billions of dollars from investors is being charged for a federal crime because "she's a woman in tech!" They're just Tumblr now


ShlomoIbnGabirol

Pretty insulting to tumblr IMO.


Artizela

She's not a moron, she's a politician. She made the move that would maximize her chances of getting necessary support from NYC Jews (changing her vote from 'no' to 'present') while maintaining her popularity with progressive Americans (not voting 'yes' and getting emotional about 'being forced by political pressure to vote against Palestine'.) If she voted yes, the rest of the Squad would have terminated all relationship with her. If she voted no, she would have forsaken all chances of getting into office in NYC. She made the best call for her career, and the fake crying is a bonus.


PollyannaPenny

I don't think she's that clever. She just cried because she got some pushback from her own side (for both this and her nonsense at the Met Gala) when she's used to fawning praise


TheInklingsPen

"people are so insensitive to human rights abuses 😭😭😭😭" ... Like Hamas firing rockets onto civilians? Or in your (AOC) mind, do you think it's an appropriate punishment for Israel's hitting targets you disagree with that they aren't allowed to protect their civilians? So one human rights abuse excuses "another"? That's like arguing that mass shootings in America are okay because our drones kill more civilians than insurgents, but AOC has been pretty flipping quiet about that, hmmm.


SuperMatter

My thoughts exactly! Her opposition to the Iron Dome is an endorsement of Hamas and it proves she wants innocent civilians to die. "Waaah! But we were going to exterminate the Jews! I didn't get my way! Waaah! Waaah!" I am reminded that the official name of the Nazi Party was the National Socialist German Workers' Party.


im-here-for-memes2

They just added socialist cause it was hip at the time. They didn’t actually have a socialist policy.


PollyannaPenny

>My thoughts exactly! Her opposition to the Iron Dome is an endorsement of Hamas and it proves she wants innocent civilians to die. Maybe. But I think its just as likely that she didn't know what the Iron Dome was and only voted against it because her woke base (and her racist gal pals in The Squad) told her "vote no because Israel bad". Remember, AOC is the same moron who tried to deflect previous antisemitism accusations by claiming to be 1/17th Jewish princess. She isn't very smart and likely doesn't put much thought into the consequences of her votes (outside of how many likes it'll net her on Instagram & Twitter)


johnthethinker78

Never have i thought seeing a political satire comic would also include amazing art


ruper3

Not a comic but what about this https://youtu.be/Ly4Y4vDPwog


johnthethinker78

Seen it before. Doesn't get old


thhbdtgdtgfgf

As an American it was totally worth my 3 dollars in tax dollars to see her cry.


ArcanistKvothe24

Ooooh where can I find this


NightA

https://files.catbox.moe/es33t9.mp4


Due-Exercise-6809

Probably not even close to 3 dollars.


Artizela

There are 143M taxpayers in the US as of 2017. That means the average taxpayer contributed $7 for the recent Iron Dome funding and $26.5 annually for the standard $3.8B aid. Of course, most taxation is progressive (the top 25% in the US pays 86% of the tax) so an average doesn't necessarily *mean* much.


EnfantTragic

And not all tax is income tax


Typical_Athlete

Most US federal tax revenue is income tax. There’s no national sales tax, and estate tax and tariff revenues are relatively minor. Unless you’re talking about state and local taxes, which can be income, sales, or property taxes, but then again I doubt there’s American states and cities that are funding the IDF.


m3mys31fandI

Income tax is only about half. Another third of taxes are payroll taxes paid by american companies. https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/where-do-federal-tax-revenues-come-from


Typical_Athlete

The taxes paid by American companies are based on income. You’re probably thinking about individual income tax versus corporate income tax. Payroll taxes is something else, that money is locked away in separate accounts specifically for Medicare and SS, it’s illegal for that money to be used for anything else.


[deleted]

These calculations are somewhat misleading. The 'foreign aid' is only about buying from US enterprises - so it's basically money that stays in the US, and goes back into the US economy in the form of salaries etc.


JosephL_55

I think primarily the money will go to Raytheon shareholders, not employees


Grizknot

Does Raytheon have a dividend?


JosephL_55

Yes


thhbdtgdtgfgf

Still worth the 7 dollars.


Blancilo

MEAN much XD


Sinan_reis

>level 2ArcanistKvothe24 · 9h   Ooooh where can I find this26 it goes back into the economy as stimulus because it's basically a down payment for a US company.


superfire444

It's so weird to me how "the left" prides itself in living in reality - something which they admittedly do most of the time - but when it comes to Israel they go off the fucking rails into batshit crazy territory. I'm quite left-leaning but why the left shits on Israel so hard is still a mystery to me. If only the AOC's of this world would in good faith look at the situation I bet they would come to a completely different conclusion.


SurgicalNeckHumerus

Genuine question, but do you think the left (or at least progressive left as it’s labeled in America), has an antisemitism problem? The amount of time spent shitting on israel is completely disproportionate to any other country that is accused of human rights violations/war crimes like Egypt Turkey or Saudi to name a few. It makes me wonder if it’s actually rooted in deep seeded/unconscious antisemitism - something to do with the stereotype of Jews being rich and a central dogma of the progressive left now is “tax the rich”, thereby translating hatred of the rich towards hatred of the Jews. Why is there such a disproportionate amount of hate to just the Jewish state?


noamno1

I actually think you nailed it . The left hates rich people , especially if they're white . Because they think the Jewish state is white and rich , It is basically the ultimate evil.


highblacksky7

One of dumbest things I've heard is that Israel is supposed to give the technology it created, the Iron Dome, to the Hamas. Why the fuck would they give their technology to a government that wants to destroy them?


noamno1

> ou think the left (or at least progressive left as it’s labeled in America), has an antisemitis Well the US handed over shit tons of weapons to the Taliban so they think thats how its done.


highblacksky7

There's anti-semitism in the left and the right. The difference is that the right is open about it, while the left denies it.


highblacksky7

Did you reply to the wrong person? Looks like you quoted someone else.


noamno1

seems like i did :(


highblacksky7

lol no worries


iamtoohotwithoutAC

It’s the settlements. If Israel would stop the settlements then a lot of the rage would subside. Some things are unacceptable and as an Israeli even I think the settlements are ridiculous. There isn’t a point to them other than to make us a pariah in the world


noamno1

I agree , the settlements must go .Yet i dont think that thats what enrages them the most.


highblacksky7

Also you're right it's not the settlements or the occupation. It's zionism. They oppose the Jewish state. Well, I think they can go fuck themselves. Israelis should be proud of their Jewish state. You got it rightfully under the UN and international law, and have since built and developed it for 70 years into a successful country. Taking away the country now from Israelis would be a massive human rights violation and violation of international law. It's not a solution!


highblacksky7

Noam Chomsky thinks the settlers should be able to stay as a part of a Palestinian state. He said 1967 borders. If Israelis think different borders would work better I think they should say why - and surprise (/s) it has nothing to do with taking as much as possible from Palestinians smh.


noamno1

Noam Chomsky is delusional , i honestly dont know what kind of hallucination mushroons the guy smokes before he opens his mouth but it gotta be good.The guy has simply no clue how the middle east works . If the settlers stay there they are going to suffer pogroms from an incredibly hostile population in the good case , in the worst case the Palestinian police would join the perpetrators


highblacksky7

I think he's saying he's not like fuck all Israelis and 500,000 have to evacuate immediately. He said it in a debate with Israeli Rudy Rochman. Do you think they are borders Israel could realistically defend?


noamno1

1967? I dont know if we could defend them , im not a military strategist . What i do know for certain is that we'll have to . The peace plan based on the 1967 borders is a western fantasy .The ordinary Palestinian believes that the entire land is his country and the Jews need to be expelled . So even if the land is given they will probably try to launch rockets from therr like they did when we withdrew from Gaza.


highblacksky7

From what I gather the 1967 borders could be hard to defend, and maybe different borders could work better for Israel to defend itself from the coming attacks from the Palestinian state. Also, if Palestinians attack after getting their own state the international community will take a stark turn against them.


Old_Log6350

Israel left Gaza. And yet we are still blamed for "occupying" it. The same thing would happen if we left the territories, but 100 times worse. The question is also how far are you willing to go. Evacuating illegal "hilltop youth"? Fine. Smaller, but legal settlements? Gets tricky. Ariel or East Jerusalem? Practically impossible without the civil war. I am sure 90% of the army would refuse to carry this order. And a lot of Palis view Tel-Aviv as an illegitimate settlement as well. Evacuate this too? Why don't we just all hold hands and swim to Cyprus, like Arafat suggested.


WendyCRi

The settlements are bad, but I really don't think they are the reason for antisemitism on the far left. The far left had a serious antisemitism problem long before the settlements, or even Israel, existed.


ShlomoIbnGabirol

I don’t think your average far left Palestinian supporter could draw a map of the region let alone point out where the settlements are located.


Rebuild_TheTemple

I fully support sending degenerate western leftists to Gaza. They'd be launched off a roof quicker than hamas's new rockets from Iran.


highblacksky7

Maybe Israeli-Americans should run for politics and take the left back? heh. Israelis are based, Americans will like it.


danielEI2075

A question have you been to the ariel uni? The ci existance between the far right there to arabs is anazing to me. If every one acted tge way they act there, id imagine we would have had peace. Saying its the settlements like that just isnt corect in my opinion. Edit this is on mobile, so many typos i dont have power to correct them.


SeeShark

Everyone is antisemitic. The progressive left is different in that they found a way to be antisemitic by proxy.


TheInklingsPen

Not OP, but I have a theory: 1) the far-left has a big problem with good-guy/bad-guy mentality. I saw a TikTok by a leftist disabled veteran (Iraq or Afghanistan, I don't remember) who criticized Islamic radical terrorism and these tankies in the comments *defended* the terrorists, because America shouldn't be invading in the first place. He replied that you can be against the American invasion and still agree that "blowing up children is bad, we don't live in a Disney movie!". For the far-left, because Palestine is suffering, and Israel is prosperous, and Israel isn't playing hero saving the Palestinians, Israel is evil and Palestinians are innocent and there is no other narrative they have the wherewithal to hear. 2) A lot of the far-lefts antisemitism is fueled by white guilt for Islamophobia/Islamomisia. Again, in their childlike minds, because Muslims face discrimination in *America*, then Muslims must be exclusively marginalized oppressed people. Meanwhile, because Christians are the dominant oppressors in *America*, they are pure evil and only capable of dominance... Which complete ignores the ethnic cleansing of Assyrians and Copts by Muslim Arabs and Kurds in WANA. But nope, they open their mouths wide and swallow right-wing pan-Arabic propaganda sponsored by a country on the other side of the planet, without any question because they feel that makes them an ally to marginalized people in their hometown. 3) it's classic bipatisanism. The far-right stans Israel so hard that the far-left has to hate them. They don't care why, because that's not the point. None of it matters. Israel and Palestine are just pawns in the tit-for-tat game. 4) I honest to God think that a significant reason for the villainization of Israel is because colonizers are afraid that the indigenous people they oppress will take inspiration from it.


PollyannaPenny

>Again, in their childlike minds, because Muslims face discrimination in America, then Muslims must be exclusively marginalized oppressed people. Woke lefties are also ignorant about the world outside the United States. So they see EVERY conflict through an American lens instead of evaluating foreign conflicts as their own cultural thing. Like you said, they view all Muslims everywhere as oppressed minorities (and all Jews as rich, White Ashkenazis) because that is how those groups are perceived in America


superfire444

> Genuine question, but do you think the left (or at least progressive left as it’s labeled in America), has an antisemitism problem? It pains me to say this but I think they do. I don't think it's anti-semitism in it's pure form but if you're calling the Israel/Palestinian conflict a genocide, apartheid or any other bullshit like that you're being anti-semitic. I don't doubt quite some figures on the left are actually pure anti-semites but most of them simply have no clue and don't think for themselves/refuse to listen to the facts. That's anti-semitism but it's different from actual pure jew-hatred in my opinion. From the outside they're both disgusting obviously and practically there is no difference. If you don't condone Hamas wanting to wipe out Israel but support them or want aid to go to them then you're just as bad as someone supporting Hamas because they want to wipe Israel off the map.


krypterion

*How to Fight Anti-Semitism*, by Bari Weiss, is a good read on this subject.


TrekkiMonstr

No, I don't. Israel is a big and powerful country that's really good friends with the US, that they (rightly in some cases) see as doing bad stuff. This isn't true with other countries -- like Saudi, which we extend much less unconditional support and friendship to. They think the US is big and evil, so Israel is too, by extension. Add to this literal Soviet propaganda from 1967, and you get what we have today.


PoorSweetTeapipe

My personal theory is that a lot of Americans in general are raised with a fixation on Nazis, i.e. “Punch a Nazi!” and as a result, a fixation on Jews by proxy. They don’t actually care about the *humanitarian* aspect of fighting Nazi ideology, and instead it’s almost become this like… declaration of manly righteousness. So, you get a lot of feelings of violence and righteousness mixed up together (“Punch a Nazi”), mix that together with the suggestion that Jews have transgressed, and boom. Now they have a conscious reason to validate their subconscious association of violent righteousness with Jews. I hope I explained that well - I think this is the first time I’ve actually written it out and tried to describe it.


maria340

Left leaning too and I completely agree. The progressive left has organized the world into oppressor and oppressed. Israel is more powerful and "white," therefore it is the oppressor. And when a people are oppressed, every action can be justified as resistance. At least the stand alone bill for iron dome funding passed with a vast majority of votes.


anewbys83

Agreed, this is the problem, and since the progressive left is very vocal they seem like the majority. Election results show this is not the case, but rest of dems aren't as loud and don't get the attention. I'm also salty they took progressive from me. I was progressive in the 2000s as a 20 something. Now it's all this weird stuff which is counter productive to actually achieving meaningful change. I was happy to see the iron dome funding vote go that way. There's no reason not to support Israel, even with its flaws. No country is perfect, and Israel is the better partner in the region. I just wish the "young'uns" could see this.


dickkitches

Another sad fact is that the progressive left paints anyone who isn't as far left as they are as far right. It's gotten pretty absurd.


highblacksky7

This is one of the things that bothers me the most - if I don't blindly follow everything they say or dare to challenge them I'm outcasted as a Republican. And what about that mentality is left wing?


[deleted]

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SCP-3388

It’s polarization. The far left accuses anyone who isn’t as far left as them of being far right. The far right accuses anyone who isn’t as far right as them of being communist.


dickkitches

The far left has a much bigger platform to make such claims, at least in the US. The far right is such a minority of the population I don't think much attention is given to their thoughts.


SCP-3388

Boi are you from some alternate universe? America is EXTREMELY right wing, and has suffered from decades of Cold War propaganda painting socialism as evil. A decent part of Trump’s campaign was calling Biden a socialist. American ‘centrists’ are right wing by international standards, and American ‘leftists’ are often centrist by international standards


dickkitches

Living in America I can probably speak on it better than someone living in New Zealand.


SCP-3388

No you can’t, because you view it from an American perspective where you think right is centrist.


TheArcheoPhilomath

Sorry people down voted you - Mccarthyism did a real number over there didn't it? I know many Americans who now live in the UK who were shocked to come to realise just how right leaning America is. Americas democrats are Britain's conservatives/lib dem. Whilst Britain's Labour is also pretty central and far cry from socialism.


SCP-3388

I think a lot of 'labour' parties have become centrist, due to gaining popularity and not wanting to lose it by being too far to the left for mainstream appeal. Here in NZ our labour party is officially center-left but currently more center than left. But yeah, it's strange that in America things like subsidized healthcare are seen as left-wing views when in a lot of places even some right-wing parties think it's a good thing and don't oppose it. And there's that whole america-centric perspective where they insist everything must be observed by their standard.


TheArcheoPhilomath

For sure. In the UK We had the new Labour starting with Blair going more central for quite a while, Corbyn started to bring it back to old Labour, but now its swung back to slightly central-left with Starmer. Green and SNP are probably the closest thing you get to old Labour nowadays in the UK. Yeah it is very strange seeing American politics and how very moderate views are seen as socialist. I remember being at school as young kid learning about politics and seeing the political spectrum drawn like: Communism___________Labour__lib dem__Conservative__________fascism Really showing how our parties were all pretty moderate. Makes me wonder if Americans were shown it like: Communism__democrats__republicans__fascist So to them communism (and fascism) is just a step away. Honestly I am constantly surprised by Americans on reddit and how they talk about the political spectrum. I also must say I was amused that the other commenter used the phrase "well I live here and you don't so I know better" as if American politics aren't accessible or widely heard by other English speaking countries. Like I can see why let's say an Israeli (since we're in that sub) could use that argument since its safe to assume most people in other countries don't know Hebrew and may miss some of the politics - but an American? 🙄


dickkitches

Okay. You sound like you've got it all figured out. I'll leave you to it.


iamtoohotwithoutAC

Because the American progressive left is *barely* left, they’re like a standard normal left for the western world (and Latin America). So yes, your Biden isn’t left, he’s a centrist. The United States is just so skewed to the right centrists look left leaning.


highblacksky7

And what do they have to offer? What is their solution and vision to solve conflict? Something that people would agree to and get behind, and that fulfills the needs and aspirations of both? Their decision to treat it as one sided just makes them end up saying fuck Israel and every else scratching their heads on what they want.


superblobby

I’ve told leftists that Israel was built by socialist communes and they didn’t believe me


[deleted]

[удалено]


anewbys83

That won't matter, he was "white" and therefore an "oppressor" who came and took land from innocent Palestinians. Never mind that there was literal colonialism happening then too, and in Ben Gurion's youth they were ruled by the Ottoman Empire which while multi-ethnic was clearly under Turkish domination, who didn't give one iota for the fellaheen in the region and for a while were kind of happy to see Jews move there and invest in the area.


highblacksky7

>I’ve told leftists that Israel was built by socialist communes and they didn’t believe me They don't consider it socialist commies, I've read it on Jacobin, it was just Jewish....whatever that's supposed to be mean idk guess Jews can't be socialist commies.


iamtoohotwithoutAC

That isn’t the point. The point is stuff like the settlements. That’s what they’re fixated on, is the things we are doing as a country that are unacceptable. I wish our government would realize this


superblobby

I’m not arguing that, I agree the settlements are terrible, but it’d be nice if the global left gave the Israeli left some support. This anti-Israel stance adopted by many left wing parties only hurt LGM and drive Israelis further to the right


highblacksky7

I brought this up and an American leftist said all Israeli leftists are genocidal psychos. They just hate Israel as a country and want it gone. And that's it. Btw I'm left leaning politically US and defected over this psycho shit. I can be left wing and support Israel existing as a country, support a solution that gives Palestinian their rights, and they can go fuck themselves if they got a problem with it. Taking away a country with millions of people living in it would be a massive human rights violation wtf. And....imperialistic...?


GiggaWat

100%. It’s bizarre to quite literally pick the side of islamists, who stand literally against liberal values. It’s just virtue signaling and taking the opposite side rather than anything actually of substance but frustrating beyond belief to have me pick whether my vote is explicitly for liberal values or explicitly for Israel’s liberal values.


Recliner5

I also use this argument when defending Israel in a discussion. I'll ask, "Hamas is a terrorist organization that kills gays and oppresses women, are you sure you want them to have more land?"


anewbys83

Exactly! I try to bring this up too.


ZestyJew7

IT iS jUsT ThEiR cUlTuRe


taxmandan

As a left-leaning centrist, I think you need to divide the left into the liberal left and the progressive left. They may share the same party, but they are profoundly different. The progressive left is led by neo-Marxist nut jobs. Full stop. They may say other things that you agree with “in theory”, but I can assure you that if given the opportunity, their “in practice” would not look as good. The progressive left categorically does not care about peace between Arabs and Jews through reconciliation. If they did, they would support Arabs and Muslims who are trying to transform their society into a more tolerant one, such as these people behind the recent Iraq conference: https://www.peacecomms.org/mission


GracefulVillain

Totally agree. The progressive/far left doesn't want peace and co-existence, they want "justice" for Palestinians, which is a totally different goal and achieved by very different means.


highblacksky7

>The progressive left categorically does not care about peace between Arabs and Jews through reconciliation. If they did, they would support Arabs and Muslims who are trying to transform their society into a more tolerant one, such as these people behind the recent Iraq conference: > >https://www.peacecomms.org/mission 1000% agree. I realized they don't want peace for this very same reason. They pick a side, divide Israelis and Palestinians and fuel the conflict for their own political agendas and media clicks. And the tokenization of Jews disgusts me.


porn0f1sh

Anarcho communist here. This situation is effed up but it does have one benefit for us: we have an easy litmus test to see who's actually a leftist and who is there just as a sheep following trends and hating on conservatives-capitalists A leftist who is actively against Jewish state while not against ALL forms of statehood just as much? Either an example of the latter or just *gasp* an antisemite nazi on the left


Yoramus

Your ideology is one of the few that is anti-Israel without being antisemitic. I use always that as an example. Pardon me but there is a bit I don't understand anyway.. anarchism (anti-state) and communism (uber-state that controls everything) are not the opposite of one another?


porn0f1sh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-communism Tl;dr take the sharing of communism, divorce it from state and marry it with direct democracy (in 21st century it can easily be made through smartphone app) and you have anarcho-communism There's also anarcho capitalism which afaik is no state but also no sharing (liberterianism in the states if I'm not mistaken)


highblacksky7

>A leftist who is actively against Jewish state while not against ALL forms of statehood just as much? Either an example of the latter or just gasp an antisemite nazi on the left They sure support a Palestinian state and Arab states!


idan2344

The radical left are idiots when it comes to foreign policy and relationship with other countries, they are completely ignorant and misinformed about many world subjects.


Zarion222

It’s really only a minority of the left, there are 90 members of the progressives in congress and only 8 votes no on funding, it’s a small minority of a minority of democrats.


AfterGilgamesh

The real reason the left has a problem with Israel is Netanyahu. He fucked up hard when he supported the Republican Party instead of supporting America. There’s also the fact that the left and right are polarized. If Christians love Israel and still don’t like gays, then lgbtqia+ isn’t going to like Israel. There’s also the ethical philosophy that’s been sweeping the left of the western world that nationalism is inherently evil and racist.


anewbys83

> There’s also the ethical philosophy that’s been sweeping the left of the western world that nationalism is inherently evil and racist. I also feel this is exacerbated in farther left circles by how deeply the right is latching onto it. There's already the historical problems of strong nationalism embodied by the fascists of Europe, and this turned people off from it for 70 years. There wasn't room for a liberal nationalism to develop. Liberalism became embracing cosmopolitanism, globalism, moving towards more global integration and improvement--which I still agree with. I also think we can care more about our own countries while also caring about others. But the right has been digging deep into nationalist authoritarianism, especially in Hungary, Poland, and with Brexit supporters in the UK, and this is just using European cultural examples most Americans would potentially understand. Let's not forget about the disaster of Arab Nationalism too. Fervent nationalism, to me, leads to fascism/right-wing authoritarianism. It doesn't have to mind you, but the historical examples we have don't point to good outcomes. So as someone on the left, but not radical left, I am uncomfortable with nationalism and see it as a tool used for repression internally, forcing one culture, one religion, one way to be a "true American" or "true_____," and everyone else is wrong, to be forcibly assimilated or permanently ostracised.


AfterGilgamesh

Yes, there are plenty of faults with nationalism. There’s nothing wrong with holding a philosophical or political position that nationalism is wrong. That’s not the problem. The problem is looking at the existence of Jewish nationalism as evil while ignoring the fact that nationalism is the status quo in the world. Jewish liberal nationalism (Zionism) was largely in response to authoritarian nationalism. Nobody on the left has a problem with Palestinian nationalism or Iranian nationalism or Armenian nationalism etc etc


anewbys83

Very very true.


I_HAES_diabetes

There is no unified position on Israel on any side of the political spectrum, [check this out.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Germans_(political_current\))


chaser1312

3000 far left germans are anti-anti-zionists and that means that there is no unified position on Israel any side of the political spectrum? In every country in the world the right loves Israel, most if not all the time the left hates Israel.


I_HAES_diabetes

Loool, many european right wing parties have a distinct brown touch or straight up have nazi members. Please don't try to argue that right wingers in general are pro Israel. As for US right wingers, that's like their one redeeming quality.


anewbys83

I feel the same.


SeeShark

At the same time, in every country the Right is responsible for antisemitic violence. It's a weird situation.


Recliner5

In America, the greatest threat to Jews isn't the handful of country bumpkins that hate Jews, it's the far-left politicians that have power and influence, and get to speak on TV to millions (AOC, Omar, Tlaib).


anewbys83

It's not them either. It's the neo-Nazis and proud boys and the people who listen to them who go buy AR-15s and shoot up synagogues, schools, and Walmarts. They're the actual threat, and they latch onto far right conspiracies for their justification. Words in America don't matter in the short run. We saw this with Donald Trump, no one did anything but complain about what he said, and then eventually voted, but protests against him and his policies did jack shit. Now, after 15 more years or so of the far-left acting this way, I think then you'll be correct.


Recliner5

Fair enough. You make a good point. I think the far-right is the bigger problem to Jews in the south or midwest, but they aren't an issue on the coasts. I was thinking of the attacks on people wearing kippahs in LA and New York by far-left people, the protests against Israel on liberal campuses, the blatant anti-Semitism by liberal politicians, etc.


anewbys83

Well you're right there.


SeeShark

There's no evidence AOC hates Jews, although the rest of the Squad certainly does. And yet, antisemitic violence still usually comes from the Right.


Recliner5

AOC votes against Israel any chance she gets and defends Omar and Tlaib in their anti-Semitism. Birds of a feather. The far-right idiots marching with tiki torches are viewed as idiots and no one respects them. AOC has influence on millions of people and can vote against Israel. https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-ilhan-omar-anti-semitism-resolution-20190305-story.html


anewbys83

Yes, exactly! The left has words, they'll talk a lot. The extremes on the right have guns and go out and shoot people. IDK where this idea that the left is more of a threat comes from, other than feelings of disappointment and betrayal which I share. Doesn't change my values, just maybe the milieu in which I express them. The squad can talk all they want, and I can ignore them. As we saw they don't have nearly as much power in Congress as they thought. Now the task is to keep it that way.


SeeShark

I think for some people it's a sense of betrayal from the Left - certainly that's the case for many American Jews. On r/Israel I think it's because a lot of people are right-wing, though.


chaser1312

Antisemitic violence in Europe comes almost exclusively from the left and islam. In the US antifa and islam, hate the jews.


SeeShark

Radial Islamists are not left-wing, mate. They're fundamentalist right wingers of a different religion. Antifascists have zero history of antisemitic attack, even if the people who identify as such tend to be the ones being antisemitic by attacking Israel. Meanwhile, synagogues get shot up by right-wing conspiracy theories.


GoutMasterSupreme

It's true that Islamists are not actually Left wing, but how would you explain how the Left has more sympathy for Islamists while the Right despises them? There are very little values shared between them.


SeeShark

The Christian Right despises Islamists because fundamentalists are dogmatic and can't tolerate fundamentalists of other religions, which is ironic politically because their internal policy stances are virtually identical. As for the Left... real talk? A combination of misguided anti-racism in reaction to the Right, and plain ignorance, which is common across the political spectrum but is extra ironic when it leads anti-racists to overlook racism.


anewbys83

> As for the Left... real talk? A combination of misguided anti-racism in reaction to the Right, and plain ignorance, which is common across the political spectrum but is extra ironic when it leads anti-racists to overlook racism. Thanks for speaking the truth friend. A lot of people need to hear it so we know where to focus different energies into policy and leadership.


highblacksky7

They don't own the left, even if they think they do. Can break away and support other left wing politicians with better methods and solutions to issues.


markos5623

The sad thing is a lot of people think this way.


menastudies

They’re foolish and naive. They think taking away iron dome would lead to peace. In reality it would embolden hamas and kill more Israelis forcing the IDF to escalate and demolish Gaza. Very very stupid people think like this.


markos5623

A lot of people think that because the Palestinians suffer more casulties they are in the right or they think taking the Iron Dome away is rightfull becuase it levels the playing field. Some people just dont like using their brain


menastudies

Ya I've heard that idiotic argument. They also don't understand this is a relationship that goes both ways between the US and Israel. Removing funding won't end Iron dome. Israel will never outsource her security. The funding will come from somewhere else and the mission will continue. Its not a negotiating piece. It tends to be younger naive people that hold these views. They missed the intifadas and other wars without Iron Dome where the death toll was far higher and where Israeli busses and cafes exploded every week.


Hatula

Unless that's their goal


anewbys83

Exactly! I tried telling people this back in May but they just weren't hearing it.


menastudies

Ignorance sucks. Bias and ignorance is a bad combo.


redditdire

John fucking Oliver comes to mind


_Administrator_

He should stick to jokes about molesting young men.


Gmen9256

Blows my mind that so many American Jews are liberal. The left literally hates Jews and sees us as oppressors both here in America and Abroad. Nothing worse than liberal American Jews who have never had a tough day in their lives.


Minimum-Actuary-7040

I think with the more frequent polarization of the issue, I could see more American Jews making aliyah.


PollyannaPenny

>Blows my mind that so many American Jews are liberal. The left literally hates Jews and sees us as oppressors both here in America and Abroad. American liberal Jews tend to be white-washed and care more about getting headpats from goyim than protecting other Jews. Basically, "I'm not like those OTHER Jews! I'm cool!"


Flufflebuns

Literally no one thinks this way. This meme is a hyper generalization of a complex situation. In reality, not one person is even suggesting that Israel shouldn't defend itself, rather they are suggesting that the US need not continue the sale of munitions to anywhere on earth. The US is not the world police, Israel is perfectly capable of protecting itself with it's current supply and what it manufactures. There is no reason for a constant supply chain of billions in unused munitions.


MistCongeniality

That’s all well and good, but I don’t see Congress batting an eye at other weapons sales to other countries. So I’ll believe it when she votes present to all bills that include weapons sales.


markos5623

Some people do think that way. Never underestimate peoples stupidity.


Recliner5

I've had people tell me that Israel shouldn't defend themselves because the rockets shot by Palestine are equivalent to a flea biting a dog.


Sven9888

I hope their dogs don’t take flea medication. And I hope they’ve never put on bug spray or had their house treated for pests.


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Grizknot

If Iron Dome didn't exist more arabs would die, Gaza would be in even worse condition and AOC and her ilk would still be crying.


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Grizknot

And I'm just citing the response.


Flufflebuns

Fair enough. I'm with you. Then again I've never really heard a single politician complain about the iron dome, but I get what you're saying.


porn0f1sh

That argument just means Israelis dying is good for the peace process.


Flufflebuns

No I'm with him with the idea that some think the iron dome prevents peace talks. I don't agree with it, and neither does the person I'm responding to. I'm simply agreeing that that could be a person's argument.


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porn0f1sh

Indeed. My mistake. corrected. thanks! What's that ISO standard for?


porn0f1sh

Iron dome is not munitions though. The same reason you can't call body armor as munitions. Please restate your statement ❤


Flankerl

> Literally no one thinks this way. I've encountered it on various Forums on the internet. Why would these independent people all tell the same lie?


Dragonslayerg

Replenishing Iron dome - 1 Billion Dollars. Making AOC cry - Priceless.


IsraelCube1

Racist, Zionist, colonialist Jewish rockets are genociding innocent Palestinian missiles


Volcamel

Hold up, did she actually cry??? No fucking way. Edit: just looked it up and holy shit. Imagine crying because a country has funding to defend its citizens from terrorist attacks. I cannot fucking believe the idiocy.


aliffattah

Why would my tax go to some foreign country far away from here?


Yorower

Because that tax money now might prevent you from more tax money later for something happening on your own soil.


Niksiszolekker

This gives some context: https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/aoc-s-iron-dome-vote-left-her-crying-it-backfired-n1280048


porn0f1sh

This just explains that instead of antisemitic she's just an average politician who cares about her career a lot more than other people


SuperMatter

Agree that she cares about her career and actually doesn't give two shits about anyone except herself. But she is absolutely anti-Semitic.


SeeShark

Thank you for the link. It's clear this cartoon is extremely disingenuous. It's clear her crying was much more complex than "Israel bad." It should be noted that in stark contrast with the rest of the Squad, who can't seem to stop making """antizionist""" accusations, AOC has never seemed to have a strong position on the matter, and I actually kind of respect that. AOC tends to not make statements about issues she doesn't feel informed about, and honestly she represents the best hope for an American Left wing that isn't antisemitic and supports a two-state solution. I don't think this cartoon makes sense, nor is the conversation happening in this thread honest or helpful.


SnowGN

I'd just be happy if AOC held her 'squad' compatriots to the same standard of morality by which she holds others. She tolerates the thinnest of thinly veiled racism against Jews, but is generally quick to criticize racism by whites on minorities, misogyny by men on women, abuses of power by the wealthy on everyone else. The double standard is infuriating, especially because I'd *like* to be able to call myself a Progressive and really, really want a standard-bearer for the party's future who isn't a wackjob.


SeeShark

I agree and 100% sympathize with your position.


porn0f1sh

Just be you. And don't carry anyone else's standard. This is the core of REAL progressive reality


porn0f1sh

Clear her crying was complex? It's not clear to me. I'm still wondering why she cried. Maybe you can explain please? >"I wept at the complete lack of care for the human beings that are impacted by these decisions, I wept at an institution choosing a path of maximum voltality and minimum consideration for its own political convenience." This doesn't mean anything to me. Sounds like politispeak. Anyone can translate it?


SeeShark

It's 100% true that most politicians don't give a shit about either Israelis or Palestinians, and that the entire vote was a political performance for the voters. That attitude will only ever preserve the status quo. It's obviously bad decorum to lose it on the floor like this, but she's not wrong.


porn0f1sh

But she's a politician. She cries after other politicians fund one thing that is 100% defensive and saves lived. That's like funding hospitals and another politician claims you don't care about human lives. Maybe she's just projecting...?


Grizknot

> but she's not wrong. what is she not wrong about? what she said made no sense and wasn't plain english. If you can translate it to plain english I'd really appreciate it.


Recliner5

AOC might have never said anything anti-Semitic herself, but she has defended Omar and Tlaib many times over their anti-Semitism.


SeeShark

This is true, and a fair point; from our point of view, she's certainly not handling this well, or gracefully. I do still think the evidence points to her not having a strong opinion on the subject.


Nelson56

Thanks for your sanity on this!


SeeShark

Any time, lol. I get why people feel so strongly on the issue - I do too - but the anger and frustration are completely misdirected here. :/


dailymoe

Lmao what an idiot


xIgnoramus

אישה טיפשה


dailymoe

שהם?


netanel246135

מה השאלה כאן?


dailymoe

עש לי חבר בשם שהם וחשהתי שזה הוא. כי זה היה התמונה שלו בדיסקורד והוא אומר דברים כאלה הרבה.


Technical_Wedding144

This is incredible


SrslyNotAnAltGuys

I generally agree with AOC politically, but this is fantastic. And Iron Dome is remarkable. I mean, when you think about it, most "defensive" weapons aren't. They're more "pre-emptively offensive" weapons. Shoot down that bomber or blow up that tank before it can hurt you. You're *still killing people*, even if they're enemy soldiers. Iron Dome is one of the very, very few "defensive weapons" that is *actually* 100% defensive.


mnbone23

The masked servants are the cherry on top.


ReddeningStars

The most ridiculous claim I’ve heard is that “Palestinians should get their own iron dome!” Solid proof these people know nothing about the conflict.


daDoorMaster

Stupid bitch Edit: No, I want to add more. I am always pissed that some Americans are complaining about the help for Israel, and saying that we are not their allies or whatever. To these people kids we say- eat shit and die. Like, the US (and the Soviet Union, cannot forget these fuckers) dragged us to the cold war, and as we were closer to the western world, we became US allies and protected their interests in the Middle East, while all the other Arab countries were sucking on mother Soviet Union's weapons titts. This is what it means to be allies. You played god and won, so fucking deal with the consequences of your actions, and help those who stood by you.


Connect-Technician13

While I agree with this particular comic, in general this comic artist sucks.


porn0f1sh

Ooh, why? What's the backstory?


squanchy-c-137

IIRC he's antivaxx and makes shallow and disingenuous comics, always anti left.


Connect-Technician13

He's alt-right and anti-vax


ZBlackmore

Beautiful art, wasted on silly points.


gooSubstance

Putting aid for Iron Dome on the chopping block was utterly rediculus, but uh, this cartoonist is an anti-vax conspiracy-theorist nutter. Pretty decent artist, though.


Evening-Raccoon7088

I can't enjoy the comic because the artist is an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist.


LITFAMWOKE

Great art very poor taste


SCP-3388

Strawmanning? Really? Nobody has ever used this argument, and using the strawman fallacy devalues your argument. Plus defaming someone while accusing them of defamation is a bad look and filled with hypocrisy.


desdendelle

You sure you replied to the right post, mate?


menastudies

What


jewclimber666

You need to get off the internet, it's not doing you any good.


AJGrayTay

To say nothing of the fact that AOC didn't actually vote against the bill.