T O P
Anchor38

No way am I fighting that dude in every pantheon of hallownest run


Djasha2

What if we'll replace markoth with her?


Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo

Markoth and GPZ then you've got a deal.


Djasha2

Just don't save zote if don't want to fight him. I however will never abandon zote (except for the achievement)


Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo

I already saved Zote on my main save and though it is increasingly tempting, I'm not about to play through the entire game a 4th time and to be *zoteless.*


Crusaade

If you never beat GPZ even if you save him he doesn't appear


uwupotato9206

Only reason I got through P3 was *I saved Zote, left him in Dirtmouth, listened to his 57 precepts (twice), never beat GPZ, and forgot he existed until I was looking at the boss order for Pantheons 3 and 5.* I like it MUCH better this way. However, I have a Godseeker mode profile, so if I want to practice GPZ, in case I want to put him in my normal godhome, I practice there.


Jedinate6

The italics made me read *Zoteless* in the same inflection as *Maidenless*


SuperPapernick

Always felt dirty to me to leave Zote just to skip him in Godhome. …not because I feel bad for him, just because I want to beat the complete pantheon without caveats.


Nightvoice4

you don't have to leave him to die to avoid him, just never fight GPZ outside of Godhome, he won't appear


RhynoD

Same reason I never go for Carefree Melody. Beating NKG is so satisfying.


walker9702

You fight NKG in the pantheon regardless of whether you do it in the main game


LeeNyerdy

You can still save Zote, he only shows up if you beat him.


Recent_Log3779

Actually he gets stuck in deepnest. If you wanna then save him and then leave him in deepnest


JezzaJ101

And you can even save him in deepnest as long as you don’t beat Trial Of The Warrior afterwards


Recent_Log3779

Oh yeah. Forgot about that


LeeNyerdy

You can still save Zote, he only shows up if you beat him.


Anchor38

Zote deserves to be in godhome and YOU KNOW IT


Alittar

GPZ is a good thing for the pantheons. You can use most of your soul to Markoth and still be fine since it’s only 1 mask GPZ. Then you’ll be healed for the rest of the fights


JustThatHumanGuy

"her?" pale lurkers a female?


zamuel-leumaz

Id much rather fight that easy boss than this annoying one


SissyFanny

You just have to run after her. Soul warrior isn't much of a boss, but at least he's got 3 moveset and is fun to fight even if really easy!


Eder442

Is it even a boss?


Djasha2

Compared to soul warrior, yes


Mekelaxo

I died several times of soul warrior in my first run, I don't think I ever died to pale lurker


This_Sweet_2086

No more or less than soul warrior I would say


Elidon007

I'd say it's more, because you find multiple soul warriors iirc


Linkonue

2


[deleted]

it's 3 actually


Linkonue

Really?? Where’s the third? There’s one before soul master, one before shade soul but I have no clue where’s the third


[deleted]

it's in the trial of the fool


Linkonue

Oooooh right, forgot about that one


[deleted]

everyone always forget about that one


Linkonue

True


uwupotato9206

Isn't there two in totf or is my memory just blurring together?


[deleted]

Oh yes I forgot so there's 4 then


Slashtrap

if you want to get technical there are 2 soul warriors in trial of the fool also does this logic make gruz mother vengefly king and brooding mawlek "not bosses"?


[deleted]

never said I agreed with that point I was just pointing out the trial of the fool soul warrior


No_Fish_7848

Well yes but there are multiple small bosses in the colloseum


[deleted]

still also it's 4 since there are 2 there


No_Fish_7848

Yeah but as said before collo also has multiple other bosses that count as bosses normally


1ts2EASY

Infinite


PokemonTom09

There are several bosses you can fight multiple times. Vengefly King and Gruzmother, for example, reoccur as well. Unlike Pale Lurker, Soul Warrior at least *fights* you and... you know... takes place in a single boss arena rather than a massive maze.


DietSodah

Where is the second gruzmother? One leading to the charm merchant and the other? Edit: nvm, one of the bosses from the trials.. totally forgot about that one.


Shady_Snek

Trust me it's a *LOT* more boss-like than soul warrior


International_Leek26

I would say more since this guy at least gets a title in the corner unlike soul warrior


RogerOThornhilll

No,


Immediate-Rope8465

Grimmkin Nightmare also isin't here even tho hes harder than 60/70% of the bosses and before you start saying that hes an enemy gruz mother and soul warrior also fought more than once but are still bosses


Master_Isabelle

Ikr, double mask damage paired with battling on a platform makes my vision of its attacks blurry


Immediate-Rope8465

and he has more health than even mawlek which is 320 if you have the pure nail


Master_Isabelle

That’s utterly painful since I just got pure nail, I should’ve stuck to old nail and upgraded my spells


Immediate-Rope8465

oh yea that's actually an really good way to beat them easier


Slashtrap

Team Cherry literally says "2 new bosses" in the expansion desc referring to Grimm and NKG. Your argument doesn't work here because Team Cherry literally says its not a boss.


iTardavk

I mean, their point is that they should have counted as a boss


Master_Isabelle

Pale lurker can have a whole video deciphering it’s lore while soul warrior doesn’t have any lore worth


Djasha2

They do have some lore: basicly they are giant fucking loser who only know how to manipulate soul and all their fighting abilities come from them "using" other bugs their souls tl:dr they can't do shit on their own


Mad5Milk

There's also a small bit of lore in the arena. There are 2 thrones, one containing a dead soul warrior and the other empty. Walk into the room, and the missing soul warrior pops in to attack. Not sure the implications of this but its an interesting detail nontheless.


RaZZeR_9351

I mean yes but that's not really how you pick which is a boss tho, plenty of regular ennemies have deep lore associated to them amd some cool bosses dont have much lore associated with them.


Floofy_Fox_Gal

Like Moss Charger?


RaZZeR_9351

Pretty good example, although wether or not it's a cool boss is subjective.


PhantasmShadow

I think moss charger is a fantastic boss. If you fight it straight away, you can't stun lock it, and it's actually a bit of a challenge


RaZZeR_9351

I don't think it's really much of a challenge personnaly but I think that this is a good thing since he comes up so early in the game and is great for beginners.


ZeraCrimson

Pretty sure she’s female


Djasha2

Oh yeah I forgor💀


SexyDrgon69

💀


MasterOfTheTeaBag

The Hunter’s journal confirms that, yes


Floofy_Fox_Gal

French Hunters Journal*


Outlaw_L1501

i feel she definetly deserved to be in place of warrior soul, i mean maybe if she had a smaller arena and like 4 floating walls to jump around on her fight could work


HotFemboy245

Katusus katusus


AquaVolt07

Good. Pale lurker is worse than 7 primal aspids


StumpTheMan

And so is markoth in the pantheon, your point being?


AquaVolt07

My point is that markoth ALSO sucks and shouldn't be there as well


StumpTheMan

Ok yeah thats a fair point.


Thaco-Thursday

I think it’s because of the nature of the Pale Lurker fight, putting it in a pantheon could really mess up the pacing


Aden_Vikki

It's more of a chase sequence than bossfight to be honest


BionicBirb

And the arena needs to be massive


seelcudoom

pale lurker should have had there own segment of godhome where she just leads you on a chase threw a platforming challenge of a bunch of hazard, so basically path of pain 2


PokemonTom09

As an additional challenge like the Eternal Ordeal, I could see it working. But as part of the boss rush, it would really destroy the pacing of everything.


seelcudoom

Oh ya definitely not a boss rush since ethey aren't really a fight at all


Floofy_Fox_Gal

Yeah but like how would she even work


WheatleyBr

isn't their "fight" just a parkour course until you get to them? sounds pretty boring for godhome


International_Leek26

Not necessarily pale lurker has a few attacks and takes quite a few hits to kill


WheatleyBr

idk, it still doesn't feel like a boss fight with them constantly running away, unless they just re-made the entire thing to make lurker more active, i just don't see it as much of a fight. atleast soul warrior is a direct confrontation, even if his moveset is basic.


Risk_Visible

I'm glad soul warrior is in Godhome. Free soul and an easy fight to relive anxiety from other bosses


NegativeUmbra

Good. I'd like to forget pale lurker. No need for that tedium in my life.


Keeganlateman

Pale lurker best boss. She’s difficult, not in combat but in platforming. I walked into that arena, stumbled through a bunch of spikes, and got so much better at navigating without falling into pits.


TheFox918

Can some tell me how many times soul warrior is in the game? cause you either remove soul warrior *or* we add moss knight cause I'd call him as much of a boss as soul warrior.


PokemonTom09

There are 2 Soul Warriors in the game (plus the one in the Colosseum), vs 5 Moss Knights. Unlike the Moss Knights, the Soul Warrors do not respawn, and the Soul Warriors have 300 health vs Moss Knight's 50.


TheFox918

well there is 2 in col not one but i still don't think soul warrior is a boss and there is no way you can change my mind


PokemonTom09

Lmao, Soul Warrior literally has more health than Vengefly King and Gruz Mother *combined* and almost has as much as False Knight. By what metric are they not a boss? The fact that they're *easy* doesn't make them not a boss - lots of bosses are easy.


TheFox918

well there is no other boss you can fight twice without going into col also do you understand the word opinion cause this is my opinion also doesn't gorgeous husk have like a lot of hp are they a boss


PokemonTom09

> well there is no other boss you can fight twice without going into col ... Hornet... > also doesn't gorgeous husk have like a lot of hp are they a boss Gorgeous Husk doesn't attack you. You obviously know why they don't count, you're just arguing for the sake of it. But since you brought them up, I suppose it's worth pointing out that Gorgeous Husk has less HP than Soul Warrior. > do you understand the word opinion cause this is my opinion That's fine, but I'm just pointing out that your opinion is not supported by any actual substantive reasoning. If you're going to share an opinion, don't be surprised when people point out the faults with it. An idea isn't immune to criticism just because it's an opinion.


Slashtrap

Hornet 1 and 2 are the same boss in the way that the dream variants are. They aren't


PokemonTom09

Soul Warrior also changes between Soul Sanctum and Elegant Key. Not as drastically, but the fight does change.


TheFox918

but with dream bosses and hornet 2 there shown as different bosses in god home with the levers and you needing to dream nail them also you fight both forms in the pantheons but soul warrior is just the same boss on attuned and ascended


JomoGaming2

I feel like they decided what was and wasn't worthy of Godhome based on spectacle. From what I remember, Pale Lurker is just a little guy that runs away from you constantly. Soul Warrior, however, has various attacks, and quite flashy ones at that. In general, I think Soul Warrior just feels more like a boss.


Intrepid_Arugula6767

We need pale lurker and Grimm kin nightmare.


Dnlnk

I think that the attuner don’t even know about her, she’s supposed to be a secret


MyPhoneIsNotChinese

Soul Warrior forgetable my ass, without counting the Nightmare King he was the boss that killed me the most (the Elegant Key version ofc)


Djasha2

No I mean the pale lurker is forgettable


Darkmega5

Ah wuzzahwuzzahwuzzahwuzzah


sleetyharpy

Pale lurker is more like a buffed bug then a boss


GoldenSpermShower

So are Soul Warriors


PersonThatNeedsHelp3

they made soul warrior waaaaay to hard because of those floating enemies, they didn’t even exist in older versions of the game


Gasterfire6

The floating enemy’s are only in the fight with the Soul Warrior guarding Shade Soul. So in a speed run you can ignore it, and casual runs you can prep for it properly.


PersonThatNeedsHelp3

just because you prep for it doesn’t mean you’ll automatically win


NAVIVAN9

Defenders crest


PersonThatNeedsHelp3

actually i found weaversong effective, tried it and beat him


Gasterfire6

Obviously, but it still gets rid of the challenge. After a couple of nail upgrades you can one shot the blobs and they actually become useful for gathering soul, which Vengeful Spirit is great at shredding the warrior.


Gamer-Ninja07

Soul warrior is on godhome it’s pale lurker we need it


Environmental-Win836

I beat all modes of the Soul Warrior in 20 minutes.


PlagueDoctressAngel

She was pretty fun 😔


temmiethebest69

I like it, but it's so annoying to do every.single.time.


FairFolk

No, I already felt terrible killing her once ._.


Zimata

Soul Warrior isn't much of a boss but at least he's easy to fight. I don't wanna spend 2 minutes chasing after Lurker every time i do a pantheon


Lordsfavor1

ah hell nah I ain’t fighting pale lurker in pantheons


good-boy-_-

wait, was he a boss?


yagurl145

Pale lurker was a boss???? Huh, cool


OGBigPants

Except I hate pale lurker


AzuraNightsong

I hate pale lurker I’m so glad I only have to fight her once per save


Epicej5

Pale lurker is just annoying and I hate her soul warrior at the very least is a mini boss like gruz mother


The_Future1474

fuck no id rather fight something that actually attacks me not that stupid piece of shit known as pale champion i dont want pale champion in vanilla i would cry


GameCrusader2

Pale lurker isn’t even a boss in my eyes it’s a boring chase in circles until it dies for a mediocre reward


Oogley_boogley

For some reason when i started playing, I found Soul Warrior harder then Soul Master


The-Phantom-Bellhop

I kinda like it this way, keeps her more of a secret >:] also, it would be tedious as HELL, way worse than soul warrior


alberthething

soul warrior is literally a worse version of broken vessel


PaleFork

pale champion fight was very annoying, but she's still more of a boss than soul warrior (i thought it was just an enemy until i found it in the pantheons), and the fight was still very unique, maybe it could just get some tweaks in the pantheon to be way less annoying and time consuming and giving more windows to attack her


realitycheck69420

He is a boss?


Drwer_On_Reddit

Radiant pale lurker would drive any player insane


pretend_i_dont_exist

It would be a cool boss if it was in an enclosed arena


PokemonTom09

Pale Lurker as part of a boss rush would be a nightmare, to be honest.


RUSHALISK

Every p5 speedrunners worst nightmare


godietron

I also would have love to seen the infected hollow knight in the pantheon :(


Lintu7778

Dude I don't want a heart attack every pantheon run


SoupySuntable

I don't really consider her a boss (though i feel the same about soul warrior), however it does make me wish we had more bosses/encounters with larger arenas


Mekelaxo

On the left should be the massive moss charger


Chiselled_Steel

I love fighting her. It's really fun and engaging imo


ParcifalII

I missed the lurker in my first run


VentCrab

I feel like it was because Pale Lurker was an afterthought in the godhome update. She was added with godhome, and her sole purpose is to drop a key so that the player did not have to decide between 4 locations with only 3 keys (Waterways, Pleasure House, and Jiji before godhome, and the Godseeker’s coffin.) Sad, but logical to assume that godhome came first.


TvWasTaken

I think it has something to do with the lore of the character it self Since the Pale lurker is so obsessed with staying alone and hide, it's possible that the God seeker wasn't able to see/call her or that she resisted the call, like Unn or the White lady, but it's strange since at least we see them in the distance during P5 It may just well be that she isn't considered a god like the other since she is just crazy and nothing else


zamuel-leumaz

His boss fight also kinda sucks sadly


sirSoupp

So true


Rubinrobo

It isn’t really fight and more like you trying to catch her. The arenas always fit on the screen and except warrior dreams have the same shape.


Lekereki

Pale lurker isn’t even a boss


Riku_70X

Neither is Soul Warrior


Lekereki

For me soul warrior was harder than soul master lmao


ExplosiveArmadillo

Dude rad pale lurker would suck


RandomCaveOfMonsters

I keep forgetting Soul Warrior is even a boss. It's presence in the pantheons surprised me on my first few playthroughs. I've always seen Soul Warrior on the level of elder baulders.


I_L0ve_M1necraft

Soul Master and Warrior and warrior are such a pain in the ass