Feelings towards new Pro-Black and POC bands in the hardcore world
By - catsucks12345
They (especially Zulu and DARE, imho) slap.
You feel like they’re anti-white, or anti-white supremacy? I don’t get the impression that they hate white people, but maybe I’m wrong.
Let me clarify, I didn't mean anti-white in the sense that they hate white people...but for example I know Zulu has a shirt out saying "Abolish White Hardcore", I just wanted to hear opinions towards that type of rhetoric.
As a white man I took that as them saying end the hardcore scene being dominated by white males and let some POC join in and feel welcomed. I definitely see how it could be taken the wrong way but I think that's what is so great about it. It seems offensive to someone who doesn't know but it's actually not anything offensive. That's pretty punk if you ask me.
It's not rhetoric nor is it racist. It's pro-diversity in hardcore. Which I'm here for.
Hell yeah! Let me just add that I never said nor was I trying to imply that it was racist by any means - I'm here for all of it too! I just wanted to get a sense of how the non-POCs in the community felt about it.
I like how mad those shirts made people get, that shit is cool
Hardcore, for me at least, is all about questioning systems. I don't get upset if bands question the mostly white dominated system that is hardcore. Well within their rights to call out systems that haven't always made space for POC. If marginalized people haven't felt seen, accepted or appreciated in a space that calls itself "open for everyone" than why not listen to them, understand their views, talk with friends about what hardcore is supposed to represent and either fix those issues as best you can in your scene or decide if you even want to be part of it.
I also don't have an issue if those bands want to carve out their own scene. Hardcore is not innately inclusive as much as we like to think it is. Bane can sing about "open minds and open hearts" but how well do various scenes across the country adhere to those values is open for debate. Culture, norms, fashion, style, socio-economics, race all of these things can keep anyone from feeling accepted or welcomed. Never mind a healthy dose of issues around gender, class, and sexual orientation that have also been at the core of the hardcore scene. If people don't feel included and wish to create a space for people who feel, look, act like them then I'm all for it.
If anything it should give the dominant scene culture a wake-up call to their own values and systems.
there are a lot of bad posts in this comment section but this is not one of them
I think whatever gets the kids excited to be a part of this overall community is a good thing. Having something for all walks of life is what makes hardcore cool as hell in the first place
it's definitely nice not being the only black person at the show anymore and it's definitely nice to have something to talk about than someone trying to be like "dude i love bad brains". yeah, i love bad brains too, but you aren't telling anyone else at the show how much you love Dr. Know's riffs...
as for "rhetoric"... two things, i guess. i don't really consider this to be binary of "oh, you said this so you're anti-white" (tbh the only people i even see complain about "anti-white" as a term tend to be white nats or reactionaries fishing for rage bait on social media) because if any of the lyrics or themes that any of these bands talk about register as "anti-white" or whatever, then you'd have to mark down the last 100 years of civil rights activism and black academic thought as just "anti white rhetoric" which misses the point of the whole thing. don't bother using that word, it's not the point is what i'm saying, shift the overton window back the other way. what i find about all these bands is that they're legitimately refreshing and not saying this shit for clout or for an IG instagram graphic. I've seen Soul Glo more times than I can count, Zulu slaps and I am looking forward to seeing them play Philly soon.
lastly: i hope this new wave of bands inspires people to go back and give the respect deserved to bands like Orange 9mm, Candiria, Fishbone (yes, Fishbone. tell me [this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59_FivvLXgA) isn't basically on the same wave of Into Another/Life of Agony/etc.), Los Crudos, etc.
Holy shit I've never heard Fishbone before and they are amazing.
here in south américa at least, los crudos have all the recognition that they deserve
Orange 9mm are some of the best to ever fucking do it and deserve as much respect as burn (ignoring the shit Chaka has been saying lately...). Also Boston's Eye For An Eye! Hella underrated
Fuck yeah fishbone rules (as do all your other points)
Great call on Los Crudos and Candiria
Love seeing more blacks in hardcore, shit was isolating as fuck bout 15 years ago.
It’s fuckin tight that’s what it is
Nothing gets me moshing harder than "For the People of Color" or "Para mi Gente"
All these bands slap. The scene needs the representation imho
I'm quite stoked on it. I want more people involved with hardcore, period.
I here for it.
I’m here for it!
Minority Threat are also a cool band.
I think it’s so sick. Some years ago when I was getting into hardcore, it sounded like a pretty cool scene. Then I found out about Minority Unit. Do you know what that did for me? It got my lil Chicano ass hyped up so much, imagine other POC discovering some of those bands you listed and getting hyped the same way? Chills
Good. There’s no reason anyone should feel any negative feelings about it.
Also, which of these bands is legitimately “anti-white”? Don’t bring up the ABOLISH WHITE HARDCORE shirt cuz anyone who got mad at that was a chud.
I want to preface this by saying that I fully recognize hardcore is predominantly white and that PoC are underrepresented. But my premise here is that the reason lies not in racism or privilege but in a logical progression of subcultures.
Shouldn’t there be *some* concession to make for different subcultures, before we discount hardcore for being a white subculture?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the subculture has been extremely reactionary to smaller skinhead movements trying to grow within. However I think it’s pertinent to acknowledge where hardcore comes from. I believe it’s safe to say that Hardcore has several growth points: one as a deviation from traditional blue collar white communities, but two in reaction to vanity genres like punk and metal, two communities overwhelmed with celebrities and parties and drugs. I think these two (three) aspects go hand in hand.
Could one not argue then, that the hip hop scene emerged for black communities in the same way? Or even earlier was the jazz, soul and funk subcultures of the 50s? But I do see many crossover sentiments when I look at early hardcore and early hip hop. And I see these same sentiments with their contemporaries.
So my conclusion is that, it’s natural for early hardcore to be white dominated, but as time grows on, people in other subcultures will fuse and grow, because at its center, hardcore is a community for the people and by the people.
I feel like this is gonna make some new band write an updated version of “Guilty of Being White” which will be misused and misinterpreted just as much as the first one was. I’m a POC so I’m not speaking out of “white fragility” or whatever sociological buzz term is in vogue right now, I’m more worried about violence and division.
That being said, everyone should be welcome. Hardcore is (should?) be about unity. Not just Bolt Thrower.
It's either Bolt Thrower or gtfo, your choice m8!
seems pretty standard for hxc politics. Usually better than most scenes or the average community in the US but usually corny, underdeveloped or over the top. Usually a combination of the three
Yea it's a long time over due. Hardcore has for too long claimed to be inclusive. But the shows were always filled with white cis males shod head to toe in sweat shop Nike gear.
Move goes hard. I don’t pay attention much to their politics (though I prob should) but their songs are wicked good.
Politics are right there in the songs tho you know? Anti slumlord, anti cop shit. Also it’s heavy as fuck
Oh for sure. Honestly just haven’t paid attention to the lyrics - but maybe I should!
in all fairness hardcore and punk despite their great lyrics, two of the harder genres to understand the words lol
I just care if the music is good, that's it.
Edit: do the kids these days not realize the standard for hardcore punk are the mother fuckin bad brains?......
i don't care either. everyone seems so stoked up on race these days, which has become pretty.... annoying. i care about the sound, the talent that's been put into these songs, the last thing i could give a shit about is the colour of someone's skin.
Absolutely and honestly that shit is uncomfortable as fuck when "white allies" talk like that, it's like they're compensating for something.
This thread rules. I was worried there’d be at least a little fuck shit but I’m glad there isn’t. Also, Zulu and Move both fucking slap.
it’s cool as fuck to witness it, especially with a band like DARE coming out of orange county which has possibly one of the worst reputations for nazis and white supremacists in SoCal
I fucking love it. It makes me happy because coming up there weren't a lot of people who looked like us onstage so kids today will actually have people to look up to in the scene and it helps solidify that they have just as much a place in the scene as anyone else. Hoping to see some more openly lgbtq musicians in hardcore and heavy music too.
breaking down barriers that are still there
i feel the same way about the modern queercore scene
get up there, speak your truth and if people take issue it's their problem
I think Blackcurrant is one of the most powerful album intros I’ve ever heard. Followed up with a fuckin banger track. Here for it.
I fucking love it. Diversity is always good and I hate white supremacy just as much as them. And I’m a 36 year old white dude.
How's that white guilt going for ya?
Got none of it so fantastic.
Just like my aunt Celina claiming she has no Catholic guilt lol.
You’re an idiot so goodnight.
Repent for yo sins white boy! Gimme some money since you Europeans colonized Latin america too.
Soul Glo is one of my new favorite bands! And it just makes me happy to see the representation really coming out more after the let’s be honest domination of angry white ppl in the scene . I’m hoping it continues and that this isn’t just a blip in the radar, these bands are wild
Doesn’t bother me none. More power to em. Good music is good music. I really don’t care.
I mosh the hardest when Regulate does a spanish song
Take that as you will
As a white dude, it's fucking sick. I think it's important to always be cognizant and aware of how settler colonialism has played systemic roles in the development of social environments and the interactions within those environments. Hardcore has always been a forum to express frustration and anger and I'd rather hear a POC voice express their voice rather than another suburban white dude waxing poetic over getting dumped.
I don't see any of these bands as anti-white, just anti-white supremacy. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just feels like a call for more diversity in the hardcore scene. I'm here for it. Plus Zulu and Soul Glo fucking rip.
Fuckin love it. Move BHC fuckin rips
Buggin' goes so fuckin hard
As a white guy I absolutely fuck with it. Make some sick ass music regardless of who you are and if you can do it while empowering underrepresented people in the scene I think that’s just the coolest thing. More diversity in the genre leads to new sounds and just more bangers overall, I’m all for it
I don’t mind what black bands do in terms of anti white shit. Early White bands used to peddle white shit all the time so I see no problem with black bands leaning into unity within the scene. More power to them and the music is great.
I'm wearing an End It shirt that features an ICE cop in a cage, so...
I’m white as fuck and hate most other white people so I’m down for any bands with a transgressive anti white message (I don’t think any of the bands you listed really are truly transgressive, more openly inclusive which is also good). Everyone listen to Racetraitor - Burn the Idol of the White Messiah. Watch old shows and Mani straight up antagonizes the crowd saying things like “you people ARE the problem”, it’s fucking great. You need to hear that shit as a white person to wake the fuck up and realize you need to step up and make a change. No one is innocent. Also more people need to hear los crudos. Soapbox done
Real talk though love the recent diversity in the scene. Good shit
Meh, labels are stupid. Music is music.
Anti white? Fuck those racists
Anything anti white is racist. Just as bad as neo nazi bands.
these bands arent even anti white you cucks just think pro diversity means anti white. shove it up your ass fuckhead.
This sub condones racism, if its anti white racism
Surbanite cucks ruined hardcore.
I’m absolutely fuckin here for it, and, as a white cishet male, will promptly get the fuck and stay the fuck out of the way of these bands and their path towards success. And support them to the best of my ability.
Flagellate yourself some more, dude. Jesus Christ. I honestly can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not.
But if you aren’t, maybe tone it down and realize you’re *still* making it about yourself, even though you think you’re playing the advocate.
OP asked a question and I answered it directly. Sorry you don’t like vocal support of POC when it’s specifically prompted. Not everyone feels like they’re being watched and judged, and many don’t care if they are. I know where I stand and that’s it. It’s probably right next to you and I don’t need you gatekeeping my support of people less advantaged than me.
Nah bro you’ve got some savior complex in this comment that’s why you’re downvoted . Little appreciation for the bands and all unnecessary introspection
Fair enough. Point taken.
Haha is that for real
>I’m absolutely fuckin here for it, and, as a white cishet male...
... You'll run me your money
Where can I sign up once I have a more disposable income?
This has to be satire holy shit hahaha
It is now, lol.
Cringeworthy is such an overused term on Reddit, but I’ll be damned if this isn’t cringeworthy as fuck. If I’m ever in the midwest, I’ll keep an eye out for the guy wearing a yoke and chains in the pit.
I love how white hardcore kids wear provocative tongue in cheek clothing bout Christians, Muslims, Democrats, nerds, but as soon as someone dishes it back yall real offended.
>The anti-white sentiment is a problem and would put me off
Lol ok good. Bye
>but this is no different to white on black racism
I'll assume you're being genuine
Are you familiar with whiteness, not as a skin color, but as a social construct?
"Anti-whiteness" is more often than not a rejection of not specifically racism, but the social construct of whiteness
Naw. You’re attributing the exclusivity and brutality of whiteness to Zulu and diversity conversations.
If they are good, then they are good. As long as they arent doing wild shit im down with it
I'm into it, I don't listen to hardcore to hear songs about how everything is peachy.