Ideally:
Rory: Hey, I plan. I understand why you didn’t call this time. Can you call next time?
Jess: I’m sorry, I can’t promise that.
OR
I’ll try, but I’m going to screw up sometimes.
OR
I didn’t realize it was important. Of course I can do that!
And then they talk more about how they feel about the situation.
——-
…but, I’m in my 40s and I’m still learning this skill, so. 😬
But boys aren't that way at times, I have had boys not text or respond right away. It's who they are, while we can say they need to be a certain way that isn't that way at times. We somtimes need to step up rather then sit back and do nothing.
> But boys aren't that way at times, I have had boys not text or respond right away. It's who they are
That's not a “boy” thing. That's a “(young) people who lack communication skills” thing. By making it about gender and saying that “that's how boys are”, like it's some biological thing that only males have, you are contributing to the problem.
> We somtimes need to step up rather then sit back and do nothing.
Blaming women for men not knowing how to communicate properly. Nice.
I am not blaming woman for men not knowing how to communicate whatsoever. As for blaming woman for men not knowing how to talk. I am just saying we whether that be men, woman or etc, will sometimes have to step up and get some communicate either that or just let that person go. We don't have to wait for whoever isn't calling we can talk to them ourselves or we can ditch them if they continue doing so.
But that’s what Rory did. Jess didn’t call when he said he would, and she communicated that that’s unacceptable and that she expects him to do what he says he’ll do. It took her a day or two to get to the point where she was confident enough to express it (and also probably to understand that this was a habit for Jess and not just a one-time busy night at work), and then she was very clear about her expectations.
This feels to me like people getting uncomfortable with women expressing their needs.
I have no problem with woman expressing their needs. That is if that was Rory what Rory did. But she didn't, she expressed her need to her mother not to Jess. She iced him out after one time, not even trying to get his side of things. The reason for this is because she is used to boy following her every needs, yes Jess should've called, but Rory needs to understand that sometimes work takes over calling. That places get busy, it can be overwelming and rather spend time on the phone they need to work. It can also seem unprofessional to both the boss and the customers if someone is just taking a call. I know Luke wouldn't have done this whatsoever, doesn't mean it's not a thing.
She may not have handled it perfectly at first, but then she left him a voicemail laying out her expectations. You say that you have no problem with women expressing their needs but then go on to explain why Rory’s needs were unreasonable… seriously women need to raise their standards. And other women need to stop judging them for it. It’s okay to say that you expect your boyfriend to call when he says he does. Full stop.
Things happen but no one works a double shift without a break. Before everyone had cell phones, pay phones were ubiquitous. And if those things were out of reach, then Jess shouldn’t have told Rory he would call her. If a bunch of truly unexpected things had come up that night, he should have apologized the next day.
You are allowed to have standards for your relationships! Women who condemn other women for having the absolute bare minimum of standards (e.g. “don’t tell me you’re going to do something and then not follow through with it”) are a part of the problem. You’re all over this thread defending Jess saying that “it’s just the way boys are sometimes,” and condemning Rory for “having boys falling over her every need.” This is really sad and I hope you think about why you think it’s too much for a woman to expect that her boyfriend will have the basic courtesy of doing what he says he’ll do.
Rory fails to understand the demands of a job. If you recall she never had one at this point. Yes Lorelei had one, but her job was flexiable. There are times when that isn't possible, for example I have this friend who was denied a break at his job. Also say Jess knew what happened how could he say sorry when Rory iced him out?
I never said they were unresonable, her reaction was. Oh and btw Jess said he would later. Later can mean that night, the day after. We assumed they made plans but Jess didn't make any of that clear. He just said he would call later.
A lot of people have explained this to you and you still keep insisting that Rory was being unreasonable, so it doesn’t really seem like this is a conversation worth having.
I hope that in real life you hold others to the basic standards of accountability that you don’t believe Rory deserves✌️
Some boys aren’t. Some girls aren’t. That’s why it’s important to talk about. Each person has to decide what they have to have in a relationship and what they can compromise on. It’s part of why relationships are difficult.
She stayed in an entire night doing nothing because he had said he would call. If he had taken two minutes to let her know that he would be late, she could have gone out with someone else and enjoyed her night instead of spending it cleaning a keyboard. Alternatively, he could have said something like “I will try to call but I can't promise anything, if you get bored make plans with someone else, don't wait for me” or “if I haven't called by x o'clock, then you should go out with someone else, because I'll probably won't be able to make it on time”. But promising that he WILL call, making her look forward to their date and spend her entire night waiting for his call, and not even realising on his own that he should at least apologise for not calling when he said he would? 100% on Rory's side.
Absolutely. Rory could’ve been more open about it the next day too, but when Lorelai told Jess (in the diner) the reason they were in a fight, he should’ve considered it the next day. What puzzles me is Lorelai tells him to merely call her if he can’t see her and the next night, she’s still waiting at home for him to call or show-up.
Yes, but there maybe times when working where you don't get time to call someone. It is nice in theory, but Jess has never been a good communicator. Rory knew this going into a relationship with him who he is. He works at Lukes which is likely slammed packed at times, not to mention Jess likely hasn't been exposed to relationships were people call back. He likely thought it wasn't a big deal because of who he was, had it Rory tried to understand that and talked to him she would've gotten that. Yet instead she iced him out for doing it once and left her mother to tell him.
> Yes, but there maybe times when working where you don't get time to call someone.
1. Unlikely that he didn't have 2 minutes to make a call. But even if that's the case:
2. If he wasn't sure that he would have been able to call, he should not have promised that he would.
3. If he *was* sure that he would have been able to call but eventually didn't get the chance, he should have immediately apologised on his own the next day, instead of being convinced that he did nothing wrong.
> It is nice in theory, but Jess has never been a good communicator.
That's his own problem, not an excuse.
> Rory knew this going into a relationship with him who he is.
I find Rory's choice to be in a relationship with teenager Jess very stupid, but that doesn't excuse Jess' behaviour in the slightest and bringing it up feels a lot like victim-blaming.
> Jess likely hasn't been exposed to relationships were people call back.
Yes, every unhealthy behaviour has its roots in our past experiences. That's true about all people. A possible explanation for his behaviour does not excuse it, it does not make him any more right and it does not make Rory any more wrong.
> He likely thought it wasn't a big deal because of who he was, had it Rory tried to understand that and talked to him she would've gotten that.
How can you not understand that “that's who he is” is a ridiculous excuse? Replace Jess and Rory with two other characters and see how idiotic it sounds. “Dean cheated on Lindsey because of who he was, had Lindsay tried to understand that she would've gotten that”. See how that's not an excuse?
\[If he wasn't sure that he would have been able to call, he should not have promised that he would.\]
Life happens sometimes you can't take time to make a call. I am sure Jess wasn't bent on breaking his promise. Nor did he see himself breaking, but then life got in the way.
\[If he was sure that he would have been able to call but eventually didn't get the chance, he should have immediately apologised on his own the next day, instead of being convinced that he did nothing wrong.\]
Maybe he would've but if you recall Rory iced him out. So even if he was planning to she failed to communicate with him on that matter. She waited until it happened again.
\[That's his own problem, not an excuse.\]
I never said it was, but Rory could've tried to understand from his side of the view. Also we talking about a girl who had no job, while Jess did.
\[How can you not understand that “that's who he is” is a ridiculous excuse? Replace Jess and Rory with two other characters and see how idiotic it sounds. “Dean cheated on Lindsey because of who he was, had Lindsay tried to understand that she would've gotten that”. See how that's not an excuse?\]
You can't change a human being's nature at least not easily. If you recall Jess likely has some deep rooted issues. He had little to no real father experience, his mother was flaky, and the relationships he likely saw were likely worse. Also Dean knew excatly what he was doing when he cheated. Jess however didn't know as we can clearly see when he was shocked at Rory icing him out.
My final point to all of this is that Jess said he would call her later. Later can be that night or even the next day. Rory assumed it meant that night and that they had plans. Jess didn't say that they had plans that he will call her LATER.
I'm on Rory. I'd be pretty mad as well if my boyfriend promised to call and then left me waiting all night for him. And even if I believed he couldn't spare 2 minutes to inform her of the situation, he could've at least apologized and explained everything to her the next day, instead of acting like nothing was wrong. And he doesn't once, he does this twice to Rory and then pops up out the blue expecting her to just come hang out with him once he was ready. Not cool on his part.
From what I saw he did this once on Friday, by Saturday he was outside her door. I am not saying Jess shouldn't had called but Jess has never been strong in communication. Nor do I think Jess saw any healthy male female relationships growing up. From what we know Liz boyfriends were all bad and Jess likely saw this and kept out all of the worse traits without realizing certain expectations. Jess didn't strike me as a relationship guy, likely having flings who didn't expect him to call whenever. So he wasn't used to having to call even if he was busy. Let us not forget Rory did nothing to change it she iced him after one time. Rather then tell him how she was feeling, if she had then this problem could've been solved.
His bad upbringing is sad, but not an excuse, especially when Lorelai laid it out for him clearly what the issue was. He still carried on as if his behavior wasn't a problem. And even Luke tried to talk to him about his communication problems prior to that and he chose to ignore that as well. When people tell Jess what the problem is and he chooses not to listen, then this is no longer an issue of him not knowing any better. He's willfully choosing not to change because he doesn't want to.
Okay I can see that idea, Jess shoud've understood better. But also remember the common factor in all of this. None of the people who told him was his girlfriend, rather being adult figures. Jess doesn't respond well to adults, it's why he got into trouble. Not to mention Rory isn't innocent in this case, if you call Rory failed to commicate at first instead choosing to ice him out, until after the game. If she had commnicated her feelings Jess might've listened, but instead everyone else did her job for her. Until the last minute.
It's interesting how Rory's communication skills are being criticized while Jess's are being excused. Okay, sure, Rory could've told him what her issues were earlier, but that doesn't mean she's in the wrong. She's not the one who told her partner she'd call, left him hanging all night, and then acted like she had done nothing wrong. And his unwillingness to listen to adults is his issue and not an excuse. Both Lorelai and Luke have known Rory a lot longer than he has, so if he actually valued his relationship with Rory, he would've put aside his pride and listened.
>If she had commnicated her feelings Jess might've listened
Rory can't even get Jess to be honest about anything going on his life or do things for her without bribes or strong arming. Not for a second do I believe he would've changed anything if she had asked.
Here is what I have to say, Jess and Rory had no plans that day. Jess only said that he would call her, later which could mean that night or even the day after. Yet Rory is acting as if she has a date which she doesn't. Jess never mentioned he would take her out that night just that he would call later. Which means Rory made a fuss over nothing at least this time around. Rory assumed that he would talk her out, that when he was calling that he was free to. She assumes this because with Dean whenever he called they usually made plans. Dean had a mostly flexiable work schedule, Jess didn't have one such as that. He had to work two jobs, while Dean had one. Now if Jess had promised to call that night and didn't he would be in the wrong. But at alas he said later, which likely means he could've done it the next day or the next time he saw her. He didn't see it as wrong, because he said later, not tomorrow, nor did he remember making plans. In conclusion if Jess had said any of what I mentioned above his communicate skills would be questioned and they are. But alas Rory is the one because for not only icing her partner out but for assuming they had plans when they didn't.
Eh, imo, this just sounds like using technicalities to let Jess off the hook. It's not unreasonable to assume that when your bf/gf says they're going to call you later they mean later that day. And if that wasn't the case that is something he should talked to her about the moment he realized why she was upset. Instead, he continues to blow her off only to then pop up, expecting her to be willing to drop whatever she was doing to be with him. Sorry, but I will never be on Jess's side. This episode was just another example of why he was a terrible boyfriend.
Reading some of these comments has me worried about some of you, hoping you don’t let someone treat you badly.
My twin got her very first boyfriend when we were 11. I didn’t like him. I remember this one night my sis holding the phone, expecting a call from him. He never called. My sister started crying. My parents came into the room to see what’s up. She didn’t tell them, I did. My dad said, “if a guy doesn’t call when he says he will, he’s not worth your time. If a guy really cares about you, he’ll find a way to call you.”
I took the words to heart.
So no, I don’t think Rory overrated. But I also think it’s on Rory. She lacked the communication skills and just expected Jess to know.
That is what I am trying to say, yes Jess should've called, but Rory could've said something rather then wait until the last minute to do so. Everyone is seeing Rory as this angel who did no wrong, but she did, she lacked her communication with her serious boyfriend. She expects everything to be like it was with Dean. That isn't life, Jess isn't Dean and he never will be. Not saying she shouldn't expect him to call, but she should also try to talk with him if it was a one time.
Honestly for me it is an easy way to see what people think and fulfills my curiousity just a little. As an added bonus they are easier to make, take little to no time to answer, and get quicker answers then if I just put it in a post.
I like them! They're a nice change from the usual "Who was the best boyfriend for Rory/best match for Lorelai?" I don't mind the boyfriend-polls, but these goes a little deeper.
Because I am re-watching the series and seeing these conflicts arise. Ones with clear answers and nobody to blame are excluded. Yet ones with a more open end can be made. For example I will never put a was it right for Dean to cheat with Rory? The answer to that is clearly no. Yes his marriage wasn't great but he shouldn't had cheated.
Perhaps but Rory was on his case and icy from the first time. I get if it happens alot then I get the frustration, but if it is once perhaps try to be open to communication before you ice your partner out. Through I do have to say I do somewhat admire Rory for listening to her mom and actually getting out of the house.
Well there had to be angst in the ep somewhere and it wasn't going to be because of Dave and Lane. The writers thought why not have the most reactive couple do it? Through honestly I think Jess didn't mean it. I think he was used to flings, where the girls weren't waiting on the phone for him to call. Nor do I think he was taught to try and call even if he can't make it.
Oh yes it was definitely fun to watch for the show. I think it’s realistic for a high school relationship, especially one of your first committed one. He was still learning how to be a good boyfriend.
I feel like people often forget that these characters are teenagers. His behaviour, her reaction and their lack of communication are all very teenage behaviours.
Rory was disappointed, which is valid - but she definitely overreacted. Jess said he'd call "later," which she understood to mean he would call whenever he was done working at Walmart. He got stuck with a second shift, so was there until midnight. It was disappointing he didn't call her with a quick update, but in this era (pre-cell phones, when we really didn't update our friends/SOs about our whereabouts continuously) it was actually pretty normal to just wait to hear from someone.
What REALLY kills me is the next day, Rory gives him the silent treatment instead of saying why she's upset. And then she spends the entire day sulking and waiting for him to call. I don't know why the guy who worked 3 shifts in 24 hours is expected to call and do all the date planning. While meanwhile she sits on the couch fuming and waiting for him to guess what's wrong.
All of this could have been solved with one direct, calm conversation. And Lorelai should have stayed out of it, because she definitely didn't help matters.
Definitely said later! We hear it happen over the counter at Luke's in the beginning of the episode. That's why I get so confused when people claim that he stood Rory up or bailed on their plans. They never had plans!!
You were right I re-watched the ep to see if I was in fact wrong, but he did say later and made no clear plans. Alas people will have different opinions, and that is on them.
That episode in particular I’m giving Jess the slack. You can see him casually tell her “call you later” at the diner Friday morning. She then assumed that meant they have plans because that’s what she was used to with Dean. I don’t blame her for getting upset, but in an ideal world she would’ve just talked to him about it, rather than waiting to blow up the next day (where he doesn’t even know why she’s mad at him, and then immediately goes and buys her concert tickets for a fun date. And again if they had talked, he would’ve known calling instead of surprising would’ve been a better call).
Yes!!! If he did say this then turns the entire issue on it's head. Everyone is acting as he said it was that night. But if it was later it could be that night or the next day. Not to mention Rory was used to having a bf with a flexible working schedule. She failed to understand that jobs aren't always like that.
If it happened once or twice it's an accident, if it happens regularly, it's a choice. Realistically Rory didn't get that upset over a few missed calls. Jess was keeping his job from her and because he didn't want her to know, he didn't call her or give her a proper reason for why he couldn't meet up. He made and broke plans without explanation. It started with a pretty important omission and spiraled from there.
You can't just routinely not call when you say you will and have it be ok.
I get what you're saying, but there's literally no reference to this behavior being a pattern for Jess. Lorelai, who's so quick to jump on his mistakes (including this one), doesn't even hint that it's happened before.
I would also argue that if this *had* been a longstanding pattern, and Rory had just remained silent about it for months on end... then that's on her, too. At some point she does have to open her mouth and ask for what she wants. No one's a mind reader.
you don’t have to read someone’s mind to know that you should call when you say you’re going to. or that you should call after or the next day to apologize if you couldn’t in that moment.
Calling someone "later" means just that... sometime in the future. I guarantee you that everyone in this thread has a different definition of what "later" means and how quickly/frequently your SO is supposed to contact you. I work with teens right now who would be aghast at the idea that "later" means someone calling you at the end of the night; they get angry when friends don't text back within minutes, every time, continuously throughout each day.
Back in 2003 (before I had a cell phone), if my boyfriend said he'd call me "later," I wouldn't have batted an eye if he'd just showed up the next day. Because that is, in fact, contacting me "later." I definitely wouldn't have assumed that "call ya later" means "we have a date at 9:00pm tonight," because frankly that makes no sense to me. Point being: there isn't actually one "correct" way to do this. The only way to set expectations in a relationship is to talk about them.
I was team Rory in the sense that he definitely should have called since they had plans. BUT- she never picked up the phone to even try reaching out to him to see what was going on. Even if she called Luke’s house Luke would have told her he must still be at work because he didn’t come back yet.
She spent so much time sulking around getting angrier at him when she also could have tried contacting him herself.
She was used to Dean calling her 75 times a day and popping up at her window, or at the diner where she was constantly. He was super overbearing. She wasn’t used to Jess’ nonchalant approach and it made her start viewing Dean’s constant calling as a good thing rather than being annoyed with it like she used to be.
100000% on Rory’s side! Jess was a terrible bf to her. You don’t have to be a magical perfect bf to know that you should give your gf a simple call and not stand her up. It’s the bare minimum
Jess was working, and it was a one time mistake. Yes, he should've called. But Rory could've talked with Jess herself yet rather then do that like a big girl she had her mommy do it, as she iced him out.
He totally had time to call her and let her know he wasn’t going to make it. Takes 30 seconds. But I totally agree Rory was immature in her response. She didn’t do herself any favors by seething on the inside and not expressing her needs
That likely wasn't Jess's mindset, honestly I think he was used to flings and not having to call. So with that since he saw he had little free time to really call and not knowing when the next order would come he thought I could talk to her tomorrow. Through Rory was 100% immature in icing him out, I get her being mad, but she could've talked to him especially if it was just the first time. But rather remember Jess is different then Dean she decided if he doesn't say anything then I won't either.
I think this scene illustrates being a teenager. You sit around and wait for them to call or text. Everything feels very intense.... it's easy to sit and judge as an adult but I did the same thing when I was a teen.
The thing is I’m around Rory’s age and we had mobiles at the time as well not like todays but we could send texts. He should’ve dropped her a quick text just to say he was stuck at work on his break
Ideally: Rory: Hey, I plan. I understand why you didn’t call this time. Can you call next time? Jess: I’m sorry, I can’t promise that. OR I’ll try, but I’m going to screw up sometimes. OR I didn’t realize it was important. Of course I can do that! And then they talk more about how they feel about the situation. ——- …but, I’m in my 40s and I’m still learning this skill, so. 😬
But boys aren't that way at times, I have had boys not text or respond right away. It's who they are, while we can say they need to be a certain way that isn't that way at times. We somtimes need to step up rather then sit back and do nothing.
> But boys aren't that way at times, I have had boys not text or respond right away. It's who they are That's not a “boy” thing. That's a “(young) people who lack communication skills” thing. By making it about gender and saying that “that's how boys are”, like it's some biological thing that only males have, you are contributing to the problem. > We somtimes need to step up rather then sit back and do nothing. Blaming women for men not knowing how to communicate properly. Nice.
I am not blaming woman for men not knowing how to communicate whatsoever. As for blaming woman for men not knowing how to talk. I am just saying we whether that be men, woman or etc, will sometimes have to step up and get some communicate either that or just let that person go. We don't have to wait for whoever isn't calling we can talk to them ourselves or we can ditch them if they continue doing so.
But that’s what Rory did. Jess didn’t call when he said he would, and she communicated that that’s unacceptable and that she expects him to do what he says he’ll do. It took her a day or two to get to the point where she was confident enough to express it (and also probably to understand that this was a habit for Jess and not just a one-time busy night at work), and then she was very clear about her expectations. This feels to me like people getting uncomfortable with women expressing their needs.
I have no problem with woman expressing their needs. That is if that was Rory what Rory did. But she didn't, she expressed her need to her mother not to Jess. She iced him out after one time, not even trying to get his side of things. The reason for this is because she is used to boy following her every needs, yes Jess should've called, but Rory needs to understand that sometimes work takes over calling. That places get busy, it can be overwelming and rather spend time on the phone they need to work. It can also seem unprofessional to both the boss and the customers if someone is just taking a call. I know Luke wouldn't have done this whatsoever, doesn't mean it's not a thing.
She may not have handled it perfectly at first, but then she left him a voicemail laying out her expectations. You say that you have no problem with women expressing their needs but then go on to explain why Rory’s needs were unreasonable… seriously women need to raise their standards. And other women need to stop judging them for it. It’s okay to say that you expect your boyfriend to call when he says he does. Full stop. Things happen but no one works a double shift without a break. Before everyone had cell phones, pay phones were ubiquitous. And if those things were out of reach, then Jess shouldn’t have told Rory he would call her. If a bunch of truly unexpected things had come up that night, he should have apologized the next day. You are allowed to have standards for your relationships! Women who condemn other women for having the absolute bare minimum of standards (e.g. “don’t tell me you’re going to do something and then not follow through with it”) are a part of the problem. You’re all over this thread defending Jess saying that “it’s just the way boys are sometimes,” and condemning Rory for “having boys falling over her every need.” This is really sad and I hope you think about why you think it’s too much for a woman to expect that her boyfriend will have the basic courtesy of doing what he says he’ll do.
Rory fails to understand the demands of a job. If you recall she never had one at this point. Yes Lorelei had one, but her job was flexiable. There are times when that isn't possible, for example I have this friend who was denied a break at his job. Also say Jess knew what happened how could he say sorry when Rory iced him out?
I never said they were unresonable, her reaction was. Oh and btw Jess said he would later. Later can mean that night, the day after. We assumed they made plans but Jess didn't make any of that clear. He just said he would call later.
A lot of people have explained this to you and you still keep insisting that Rory was being unreasonable, so it doesn’t really seem like this is a conversation worth having. I hope that in real life you hold others to the basic standards of accountability that you don’t believe Rory deserves✌️
Some boys aren’t. Some girls aren’t. That’s why it’s important to talk about. Each person has to decide what they have to have in a relationship and what they can compromise on. It’s part of why relationships are difficult.
She stayed in an entire night doing nothing because he had said he would call. If he had taken two minutes to let her know that he would be late, she could have gone out with someone else and enjoyed her night instead of spending it cleaning a keyboard. Alternatively, he could have said something like “I will try to call but I can't promise anything, if you get bored make plans with someone else, don't wait for me” or “if I haven't called by x o'clock, then you should go out with someone else, because I'll probably won't be able to make it on time”. But promising that he WILL call, making her look forward to their date and spend her entire night waiting for his call, and not even realising on his own that he should at least apologise for not calling when he said he would? 100% on Rory's side.
Absolutely. Rory could’ve been more open about it the next day too, but when Lorelai told Jess (in the diner) the reason they were in a fight, he should’ve considered it the next day. What puzzles me is Lorelai tells him to merely call her if he can’t see her and the next night, she’s still waiting at home for him to call or show-up.
Yes, absolutely this. No one should settle for some jag who doesn't respect them and their time.
Yes, but there maybe times when working where you don't get time to call someone. It is nice in theory, but Jess has never been a good communicator. Rory knew this going into a relationship with him who he is. He works at Lukes which is likely slammed packed at times, not to mention Jess likely hasn't been exposed to relationships were people call back. He likely thought it wasn't a big deal because of who he was, had it Rory tried to understand that and talked to him she would've gotten that. Yet instead she iced him out for doing it once and left her mother to tell him.
I worked at Walmart for many years. You get a break every 2 hours. He could have easily found time to call if he cared to.
> Yes, but there maybe times when working where you don't get time to call someone. 1. Unlikely that he didn't have 2 minutes to make a call. But even if that's the case: 2. If he wasn't sure that he would have been able to call, he should not have promised that he would. 3. If he *was* sure that he would have been able to call but eventually didn't get the chance, he should have immediately apologised on his own the next day, instead of being convinced that he did nothing wrong. > It is nice in theory, but Jess has never been a good communicator. That's his own problem, not an excuse. > Rory knew this going into a relationship with him who he is. I find Rory's choice to be in a relationship with teenager Jess very stupid, but that doesn't excuse Jess' behaviour in the slightest and bringing it up feels a lot like victim-blaming. > Jess likely hasn't been exposed to relationships were people call back. Yes, every unhealthy behaviour has its roots in our past experiences. That's true about all people. A possible explanation for his behaviour does not excuse it, it does not make him any more right and it does not make Rory any more wrong. > He likely thought it wasn't a big deal because of who he was, had it Rory tried to understand that and talked to him she would've gotten that. How can you not understand that “that's who he is” is a ridiculous excuse? Replace Jess and Rory with two other characters and see how idiotic it sounds. “Dean cheated on Lindsey because of who he was, had Lindsay tried to understand that she would've gotten that”. See how that's not an excuse?
\[If he wasn't sure that he would have been able to call, he should not have promised that he would.\] Life happens sometimes you can't take time to make a call. I am sure Jess wasn't bent on breaking his promise. Nor did he see himself breaking, but then life got in the way. \[If he was sure that he would have been able to call but eventually didn't get the chance, he should have immediately apologised on his own the next day, instead of being convinced that he did nothing wrong.\] Maybe he would've but if you recall Rory iced him out. So even if he was planning to she failed to communicate with him on that matter. She waited until it happened again. \[That's his own problem, not an excuse.\] I never said it was, but Rory could've tried to understand from his side of the view. Also we talking about a girl who had no job, while Jess did. \[How can you not understand that “that's who he is” is a ridiculous excuse? Replace Jess and Rory with two other characters and see how idiotic it sounds. “Dean cheated on Lindsey because of who he was, had Lindsay tried to understand that she would've gotten that”. See how that's not an excuse?\] You can't change a human being's nature at least not easily. If you recall Jess likely has some deep rooted issues. He had little to no real father experience, his mother was flaky, and the relationships he likely saw were likely worse. Also Dean knew excatly what he was doing when he cheated. Jess however didn't know as we can clearly see when he was shocked at Rory icing him out.
My final point to all of this is that Jess said he would call her later. Later can be that night or even the next day. Rory assumed it meant that night and that they had plans. Jess didn't say that they had plans that he will call her LATER.
He said he would call her later and made no sign of making plans with her. Later can mean either that night or the next day even.
I'm on Rory. I'd be pretty mad as well if my boyfriend promised to call and then left me waiting all night for him. And even if I believed he couldn't spare 2 minutes to inform her of the situation, he could've at least apologized and explained everything to her the next day, instead of acting like nothing was wrong. And he doesn't once, he does this twice to Rory and then pops up out the blue expecting her to just come hang out with him once he was ready. Not cool on his part.
From what I saw he did this once on Friday, by Saturday he was outside her door. I am not saying Jess shouldn't had called but Jess has never been strong in communication. Nor do I think Jess saw any healthy male female relationships growing up. From what we know Liz boyfriends were all bad and Jess likely saw this and kept out all of the worse traits without realizing certain expectations. Jess didn't strike me as a relationship guy, likely having flings who didn't expect him to call whenever. So he wasn't used to having to call even if he was busy. Let us not forget Rory did nothing to change it she iced him after one time. Rather then tell him how she was feeling, if she had then this problem could've been solved.
His bad upbringing is sad, but not an excuse, especially when Lorelai laid it out for him clearly what the issue was. He still carried on as if his behavior wasn't a problem. And even Luke tried to talk to him about his communication problems prior to that and he chose to ignore that as well. When people tell Jess what the problem is and he chooses not to listen, then this is no longer an issue of him not knowing any better. He's willfully choosing not to change because he doesn't want to.
Okay I can see that idea, Jess shoud've understood better. But also remember the common factor in all of this. None of the people who told him was his girlfriend, rather being adult figures. Jess doesn't respond well to adults, it's why he got into trouble. Not to mention Rory isn't innocent in this case, if you call Rory failed to commicate at first instead choosing to ice him out, until after the game. If she had commnicated her feelings Jess might've listened, but instead everyone else did her job for her. Until the last minute.
It's interesting how Rory's communication skills are being criticized while Jess's are being excused. Okay, sure, Rory could've told him what her issues were earlier, but that doesn't mean she's in the wrong. She's not the one who told her partner she'd call, left him hanging all night, and then acted like she had done nothing wrong. And his unwillingness to listen to adults is his issue and not an excuse. Both Lorelai and Luke have known Rory a lot longer than he has, so if he actually valued his relationship with Rory, he would've put aside his pride and listened. >If she had commnicated her feelings Jess might've listened Rory can't even get Jess to be honest about anything going on his life or do things for her without bribes or strong arming. Not for a second do I believe he would've changed anything if she had asked.
Here is what I have to say, Jess and Rory had no plans that day. Jess only said that he would call her, later which could mean that night or even the day after. Yet Rory is acting as if she has a date which she doesn't. Jess never mentioned he would take her out that night just that he would call later. Which means Rory made a fuss over nothing at least this time around. Rory assumed that he would talk her out, that when he was calling that he was free to. She assumes this because with Dean whenever he called they usually made plans. Dean had a mostly flexiable work schedule, Jess didn't have one such as that. He had to work two jobs, while Dean had one. Now if Jess had promised to call that night and didn't he would be in the wrong. But at alas he said later, which likely means he could've done it the next day or the next time he saw her. He didn't see it as wrong, because he said later, not tomorrow, nor did he remember making plans. In conclusion if Jess had said any of what I mentioned above his communicate skills would be questioned and they are. But alas Rory is the one because for not only icing her partner out but for assuming they had plans when they didn't.
Eh, imo, this just sounds like using technicalities to let Jess off the hook. It's not unreasonable to assume that when your bf/gf says they're going to call you later they mean later that day. And if that wasn't the case that is something he should talked to her about the moment he realized why she was upset. Instead, he continues to blow her off only to then pop up, expecting her to be willing to drop whatever she was doing to be with him. Sorry, but I will never be on Jess's side. This episode was just another example of why he was a terrible boyfriend.
Reading some of these comments has me worried about some of you, hoping you don’t let someone treat you badly. My twin got her very first boyfriend when we were 11. I didn’t like him. I remember this one night my sis holding the phone, expecting a call from him. He never called. My sister started crying. My parents came into the room to see what’s up. She didn’t tell them, I did. My dad said, “if a guy doesn’t call when he says he will, he’s not worth your time. If a guy really cares about you, he’ll find a way to call you.” I took the words to heart. So no, I don’t think Rory overrated. But I also think it’s on Rory. She lacked the communication skills and just expected Jess to know.
That is what I am trying to say, yes Jess should've called, but Rory could've said something rather then wait until the last minute to do so. Everyone is seeing Rory as this angel who did no wrong, but she did, she lacked her communication with her serious boyfriend. She expects everything to be like it was with Dean. That isn't life, Jess isn't Dean and he never will be. Not saying she shouldn't expect him to call, but she should also try to talk with him if it was a one time.
What’s up with all these polls? Lol
Honestly for me it is an easy way to see what people think and fulfills my curiousity just a little. As an added bonus they are easier to make, take little to no time to answer, and get quicker answers then if I just put it in a post.
I like them! They're a nice change from the usual "Who was the best boyfriend for Rory/best match for Lorelai?" I don't mind the boyfriend-polls, but these goes a little deeper.
Because I am re-watching the series and seeing these conflicts arise. Ones with clear answers and nobody to blame are excluded. Yet ones with a more open end can be made. For example I will never put a was it right for Dean to cheat with Rory? The answer to that is clearly no. Yes his marriage wasn't great but he shouldn't had cheated.
If you’re not team Rory, you have low standards.
Perhaps but Rory was on his case and icy from the first time. I get if it happens alot then I get the frustration, but if it is once perhaps try to be open to communication before you ice your partner out. Through I do have to say I do somewhat admire Rory for listening to her mom and actually getting out of the house.
Yes she should have been open about her frustration instead of keeping it inside and snapping after the hockey game.
Well there had to be angst in the ep somewhere and it wasn't going to be because of Dave and Lane. The writers thought why not have the most reactive couple do it? Through honestly I think Jess didn't mean it. I think he was used to flings, where the girls weren't waiting on the phone for him to call. Nor do I think he was taught to try and call even if he can't make it.
Oh yes it was definitely fun to watch for the show. I think it’s realistic for a high school relationship, especially one of your first committed one. He was still learning how to be a good boyfriend.
I feel like people often forget that these characters are teenagers. His behaviour, her reaction and their lack of communication are all very teenage behaviours.
Rory was disappointed, which is valid - but she definitely overreacted. Jess said he'd call "later," which she understood to mean he would call whenever he was done working at Walmart. He got stuck with a second shift, so was there until midnight. It was disappointing he didn't call her with a quick update, but in this era (pre-cell phones, when we really didn't update our friends/SOs about our whereabouts continuously) it was actually pretty normal to just wait to hear from someone. What REALLY kills me is the next day, Rory gives him the silent treatment instead of saying why she's upset. And then she spends the entire day sulking and waiting for him to call. I don't know why the guy who worked 3 shifts in 24 hours is expected to call and do all the date planning. While meanwhile she sits on the couch fuming and waiting for him to guess what's wrong. All of this could have been solved with one direct, calm conversation. And Lorelai should have stayed out of it, because she definitely didn't help matters.
Wait he said later, not tonight? If so then I finally have a point to prove!!!
Definitely said later! We hear it happen over the counter at Luke's in the beginning of the episode. That's why I get so confused when people claim that he stood Rory up or bailed on their plans. They never had plans!!
You were right I re-watched the ep to see if I was in fact wrong, but he did say later and made no clear plans. Alas people will have different opinions, and that is on them.
I would retweet this if that were a thing on Reddit 🙌🏻
He should’ve called but she was being rly dramatic abt it like girl just call him…
That episode in particular I’m giving Jess the slack. You can see him casually tell her “call you later” at the diner Friday morning. She then assumed that meant they have plans because that’s what she was used to with Dean. I don’t blame her for getting upset, but in an ideal world she would’ve just talked to him about it, rather than waiting to blow up the next day (where he doesn’t even know why she’s mad at him, and then immediately goes and buys her concert tickets for a fun date. And again if they had talked, he would’ve known calling instead of surprising would’ve been a better call).
Yes!!! If he did say this then turns the entire issue on it's head. Everyone is acting as he said it was that night. But if it was later it could be that night or the next day. Not to mention Rory was used to having a bf with a flexible working schedule. She failed to understand that jobs aren't always like that.
If it happened once or twice it's an accident, if it happens regularly, it's a choice. Realistically Rory didn't get that upset over a few missed calls. Jess was keeping his job from her and because he didn't want her to know, he didn't call her or give her a proper reason for why he couldn't meet up. He made and broke plans without explanation. It started with a pretty important omission and spiraled from there. You can't just routinely not call when you say you will and have it be ok.
I get what you're saying, but there's literally no reference to this behavior being a pattern for Jess. Lorelai, who's so quick to jump on his mistakes (including this one), doesn't even hint that it's happened before. I would also argue that if this *had* been a longstanding pattern, and Rory had just remained silent about it for months on end... then that's on her, too. At some point she does have to open her mouth and ask for what she wants. No one's a mind reader.
you don’t have to read someone’s mind to know that you should call when you say you’re going to. or that you should call after or the next day to apologize if you couldn’t in that moment.
Calling someone "later" means just that... sometime in the future. I guarantee you that everyone in this thread has a different definition of what "later" means and how quickly/frequently your SO is supposed to contact you. I work with teens right now who would be aghast at the idea that "later" means someone calling you at the end of the night; they get angry when friends don't text back within minutes, every time, continuously throughout each day. Back in 2003 (before I had a cell phone), if my boyfriend said he'd call me "later," I wouldn't have batted an eye if he'd just showed up the next day. Because that is, in fact, contacting me "later." I definitely wouldn't have assumed that "call ya later" means "we have a date at 9:00pm tonight," because frankly that makes no sense to me. Point being: there isn't actually one "correct" way to do this. The only way to set expectations in a relationship is to talk about them.
I was team Rory in the sense that he definitely should have called since they had plans. BUT- she never picked up the phone to even try reaching out to him to see what was going on. Even if she called Luke’s house Luke would have told her he must still be at work because he didn’t come back yet. She spent so much time sulking around getting angrier at him when she also could have tried contacting him herself. She was used to Dean calling her 75 times a day and popping up at her window, or at the diner where she was constantly. He was super overbearing. She wasn’t used to Jess’ nonchalant approach and it made her start viewing Dean’s constant calling as a good thing rather than being annoyed with it like she used to be.
100000% on Rory’s side! Jess was a terrible bf to her. You don’t have to be a magical perfect bf to know that you should give your gf a simple call and not stand her up. It’s the bare minimum
Jess was working, and it was a one time mistake. Yes, he should've called. But Rory could've talked with Jess herself yet rather then do that like a big girl she had her mommy do it, as she iced him out.
He totally had time to call her and let her know he wasn’t going to make it. Takes 30 seconds. But I totally agree Rory was immature in her response. She didn’t do herself any favors by seething on the inside and not expressing her needs
That likely wasn't Jess's mindset, honestly I think he was used to flings and not having to call. So with that since he saw he had little free time to really call and not knowing when the next order would come he thought I could talk to her tomorrow. Through Rory was 100% immature in icing him out, I get her being mad, but she could've talked to him especially if it was just the first time. But rather remember Jess is different then Dean she decided if he doesn't say anything then I won't either.
I think this scene illustrates being a teenager. You sit around and wait for them to call or text. Everything feels very intense.... it's easy to sit and judge as an adult but I did the same thing when I was a teen.
Well texting wasn’t the norm, but Rory does have a pager, her could have paged her.
The thing is I’m around Rory’s age and we had mobiles at the time as well not like todays but we could send texts. He should’ve dropped her a quick text just to say he was stuck at work on his break