People who have 36 starred the spiral abyss, what do you think matters the most - character, talent or artifacts?
By - exhaustedsand
I think other comments cover talent levels which is the biggest area for improvement here IMO. You can hold off 80/90 ascension until you’re ready to get a certain character’s talent to lv9.
One factor that I don’t see mentioned a lot is that team rotation and energy management is extremely important. It’s hard to evaluate without a gameplay video, but it’s the most common mistake I see with friends. Ask yourself if you’re getting full value out of every teammate and using everyone’s bursts near off-cooldown (at least for everyone who contributes damage or buffs). If not, it’s worth checking your supports ER, paying more attention to the energy tide, and funneling energy particles properly. This is particularly tricky on the current floor12. I can easily end up taking twice as long on a certain chamber with the same team comp if I mess up the energy tide and need to wait out 10 seconds to fill bursts.
ooo!! i didn’t think of that actually. i usually spam bursts at once and use their Es together starting from longest to shortest cooldown. thank you so much for the help!!
Off-cooldown might’ve been a bit of an generalization 😅, there’s definitely times where you want to wait to line up people’s bursts together! Like waiting until Bennett Q is used before you pop Xiangling Q, or Xingqiu for Diluc. The point being here that you don’t want to be left with long periods of time in your rotation where you’re sitting there just autoattacking without your active bursts going (e.g. Diluc infusion worn off, Xingqiu and Kaeya ults unused for a while).
yes!! thank you!!
This is how I beat it, through sheer power of wallet
That and 90% of my resin going to artifact farming.
But knowing well your rotations help a lot
Yeah rotations matter a lot. My initial abyss runs (last year), I wasted 50% of time waiting for cooldowns/gathering energy.
In a proper team rotation (15-20s), your dps output is consistent and can loop infinitely without much downtime. When I play international team, I almost ignore the mobs moves entirely and just try to maintain the right rotations. Things like always delay xiangling ult until Bennett ult is ready, prioritize xingqiu energy during high tide etc makes a big difference.
since you can beat it, you do not have a survivability issue. it is a matter of time, which means it is insufficient DPS. your characters should be 80/90, and weapons at level 90, and your main DPS should have the talents at 8 or 9 at least.
for artifacts, i think if they have the correct main stat and are at level 20, you can probably do better. If you have issues 9 starring it, then either (1) increase level further (2) improve artifacts further (3) change up team comps that are more proficient for the individual chambers (you do not need to use the same team to 3\* each of them) - nothing wrong with changing them around
I think he means that you 3 star a room you can leave change team and take your time with a room and then use the new team to 3 star the next room
you have to abandon that run or finish it
say you clear the 3 chambers, with 3 stars on the first 2 and then a 2 star on the last.
you can go back in with a different team and even 0 star the first 2, and 3 star the last one and it will be 9 stars for the floor.
You can do both but yeah that’s how it works once you get 3 stars on a floor if you go back with a different team and get less than 3 stars the 3 stars will still be there.
You actually can't change teams directly like that. What you do is try and use different teams for different chambers, since the game saves the highest stars you get anyway. So for example you use one team to beat 11 1 with 3 stars, quit abyss, use a new team and take as much time to beat 11 1, but beat 11 2 with 3 stars. So now you have 6 stars total. Do it again where you do 11 1 and 11 2 as slow as you want and speedrun 11 3 and get another 3 stars, you've got 9 stars total.
Yeah what the others replied. It takes in the best score so you can use different teams, but you will need to clear all the rest again. Ideally you should use the team that can clear the last chamber first, then retry the earlier ones with other teams. It's more common in this current abyss where 12-1 is trickier than the other two
Yes you can. There is an option to resume or abandon it.
For example you 3starred floor 12 chamber 1 but having hard time on chamber 2, just abandon it and compose a better team for chamber 2. You will go back to chamber 1, but you wont need to 3star it anymore with the new lineup, just focus on getting past it with full energy and good hp status before proceeding chamber 2. Same goes to chamber 3.
Idk if 80/90 + talent lv9 are good advice if the player in question is going to ditch that character later. Especially he's currently using 2 of the top 3 character with [highest vacancy rate](https://spiralabyss.org/).
If you're going to commit to that character, good, ignore everything I say. But otherwise I'd still prioritize artifact coz they're transferrable.
I know, RNG and stuff, but I watch abyss help streams often, and the amount of people with "passable" artifact is surprisingly low.
hmm, i guess diluc is a strong dps, even though there are other better ones. i agree that he may not want to build keqing more/at all.
my diluc and keqing have their talent levels at 8 but unfortunately have 4 star sands because i really have bad attack sands luck. (got 1 crimson witch attack sands after two months of farming and it had awful stats lol) my diluc is at 80/90 too and i didn’t ascend keqing because she had enough crit dmg, is it worth it to ascend her for the increase in other stats?
In general, you only ascend to 80/90 if you are planning to crown their talents. Both ascension and crowning are very expensive though so unless it is for a very selfish carry DPS, e.g. Xiao or Razor, or if you have nothing else to invest on, then you may consider postponing it.
Typically, you want to initially invest in the guaranteed DPS increase first, i.e. weapons to 90, important talents to 8 (as high as possible if you cannot), and 5-star artifacts with the correct main stats first. Improving artifact sub-stats is one of the very last things you do. You can spend months of resin with little to no yield when you can just spend a few days worth of resins maxing out talents for example.
Ascension is a guaranteed dps boost to the characters, I recommend it even if not intending to level up talents
It is objectively a boost. The problem is how expensive it is.
agree that it is costly, but that's kind of the beauty of the game right?
do you (1) build a character that you may abandon at a later stage to level 90 with 9/9/9 talents, or (2) throw 2 months of resin at artifact hell and possibly have no improvements to show for it?
in OP's case, since he has further explained that his artifacts are 4\*, he has an okay chance of finding an upgrade (despite 2 months of bad luck so far) if he does some more artifact domains
At some point is becomes worth it, though. Once you've got artifacts with the right main stats, the final ascension is a pretty good deal resin wise. Especially because after a while you get so many gems you just need the unique boss mats to ascend characters. Assuming you get 2.5 mats per run on average, it's only 320 resin for the final ascension, which could net you absolutely nothing if you spent it on artifact domains.
Now, leveling up to 90 is another matter.
I would argue that 320 Resin doesnt even guarantee you the correct mainstats on crown and sands, and definetly not the right element on goblet.
So objectively speaking, ascending to level 80/90 is worth it, if you already have all the correct mainstat on your artifacts, and leveled them up to 16/20.
That reminds me on how horrible the artifact grind really is.
In this case ignore set bonuses and go for 5* artifacts with good subs. 4* artifacts will cost you quite a bit of stats. Especially since you cant get them to 20.
For more general tips, getting your heavily invested DPSes to talent level 9 is a good bump to their damage, and be sure to max out their weapons because this is the easiest source of guaranteed damage.
You may actually have too much survivability. As dps increases, the need for survival decreases.
All three of them matter, but artifacts by far give the highest spike in power. They also take the longest to obtain resin wise. Get your main teams talents to at least 8, if not 9.
Also, you should work on your team comps. I'm not sure what you're doing with team 1. Keqing, both physical and electro builds, have no synergy with xiangling/Bennett. Overload pushes enemies away
i put keqing in the first team because i was kind of forced to put diluc in the second (pyro fatui needed xingqiu and diluc can help with hydro and electro fatui people). i put bennett and xiangling with keqing because i can atleast do some damage when keqing is struggling with stamina + attack boost
You would be better served with a thrilling tales bot and more cyro units to enable physical
I would swap bennett and kaeya, drop xiangling and add a thrilling tales user
+1 to the other comment, Keqing is decent with a physical build with decent artifacts, with lv9 talents, i was doing around 12k per charged attack. So 24k per charged attack if both hits crit.
You'll only need a cryo unit (Diona), to enable superconduct.
Physical Keqing carried me through most of the game, till Diluc and Eula became my mains.
a little bit of everything? for my regular abyss characters i like to have their main skills at talent level 8 minimum, weapon 90. i genuinely think the most important thing is skill, i know people who struggle to clear abyss with morgana teams because they just mess up rotations and dodging.
also remember basically any unit can clear abyss with any investment, tier lists are basically ranking characters on how little investment they need to be good. razor DPS might be able to 36* abyss, but ganyu can do it with much less investment and godrolled artifacts
a minimum of 8?? woah. well, time to hit the talent domains again lol. thank you so much!!
well it depends on the character and ability. for a main DPS like hu tao i have her at 10/10/8, but for xingqiu i have him at 1/8/8. some characters i use infrequently like diona and kaeya might be at 6 or 7, but if i find myself using a character a decent amount ill get them to 7 or 8 on main abilities. 9 is usually reserved for very good characters, and 10 is for favourites
Once you have the minimum combat power, which is like 40% artifacts, 30% characters, 20% weapons and 10% talent level, what's most important is experience and skill.
Whales can brute force any floor, of course, but experience and skill more than doubles your damage compared to blind flailing.
You need all three. I'll give you more details:
1. **Characters:** my rule of thumb is have at least *1 competent dps per element* - esp. with Pyro and Cryo due to them having unfair advantages over the rest (read floor 11 leyline lmao). If you have Anemo supports (Venti/Kazuha/Sucrose/Jean), it will be a good idea to ramp them up at least lvl 70 as well since 4pcs VV shred is one the best Artifact set with minimum investment (more details in artifact).
2. **Artifacts/Gear:** main damage dealers (including off-field dps like Xiangling/Xingqiu) should have all lvl 20 artifacts with the correct main stat (don't focus on substats if you're just building your abyss team). As for weapons, make sure to also have high ascension for your damage dealers. For your supports like Anemo characters or Bennett, bare minimum to enable them to work optimally (high EM sands/headgear for Anemo, max flower/weapon ascension for Bennett)
3. **Talent:** I'll keep this short: at least lvl 6 for your essential skills (For Diluc, all 3 talents are good to at least be lvl 6. Bennett, you only need his burst to be 6)
4. **Team Building:** Probably most important point that ties the first 3 above. You want to make sure your team is doing optimal reactions and has the right balance of DPS/supports on both side. From your ss I'll revamp your lineup a bit: *Team A: Keqing Kaeya Xiangling Diona (superconductor/melt)*. *Team B: Diluc Xingqiu Bennett Jean (vape Diluc - classic)*.
thank you so much!!
I've 36\* multiple abyss rotations with lv 70 characters. Most important is team synergy, Artifacts, and talents. Skill/burst rotations is also very important in this abyss because of the high/low tide. Off field damage is king. Character levels is not very important.
Investing into good characters and having good teams are the most important thing. You will get better result if you use Xiangling as your main damage dealer than Keqing
i only upgraded keqing because i got her when i tried the most for zhongli. it was like a coping mechanism lol but now she probably has the best build. i probably have to stick with her until i get some better artifacts for xiangling
Work on your talents
Team comps definitely matter but also don't get stuck on trying to beat all 3 floors in one go, my early days of abyss made me use different teams to 3 star each floors, abyss is a dps check majority of the time so sometimes just one different member in a team can give u that 20-30s you need to tier 1 star higher
Artifacts - 40%
Characters and playstyle - 20%
Cheese, tricks and skill - 40% (This part also includes limitations that your device have on you, if you play abyss on a cellphone, then it is probably the problem)
Just a note (not saying that you're stating the opposite):
Even though artifacts will indeed make up the majority of your power, trying to get good ones first will backfire hard. Always focus on the things you can guarantee before any RNG.
On average, I get 30-35*, but all of them matter, equally. Your team composition, their individual artifacts and talents will all put forth what you need to 36 star the abyss. Your main dps should be 80/80-80/90-90/90, supports should be 70/80-80/80, with their corresponding artifacts(elemental sets and/or glad/new glad combos for most, usually a nobless user, and Maidens/Tenacity for a healer) and their respective talent levels; DPS 8/8/8-10(?)/9/9(?-depending on what you use the most to put out the most of your damage). Edited typos.
thank you so much!! i really need to upgrade my talents now lol. i didnt realise they played such a big role.
Your teams are kinda bad at least the first half team is.
You don't need 2 healers on one team. Your second half team should easily be able to kill Maguu kenki. Keep in mind when he gets to 70% he doesn't take damage for a bit so don't spam your cool-downs on him then. I can only assume your talent levels are extremely low because I saw that you have a 1:2 ratio on most of your characters. Can we see the rest of your roster?
i had diona on the first team for shield and superconduct (i use physical keqing) and bennett for the attack boost.
other characters with decent artifacts are venti (i tried using him before in the second team but he didn’t help much), raiden (not that well built because i wasn’t planning to pull for her initially lol), fischl and barbara.
i also have c5 kujo sara, c6 sucrose, c1 rosaria and razoe whom i’ve never used and c1 beidou whom i’m slowly building (also have the other starter characters + c5 noelle)
So while the enemies on the first floor (both sides) do have -20% physical defense its still gonna take forever auto-ing them down one at a time. If you haven't already I would read the Keqing mains guide on physical Keqing to help you out: [Here](https://keqingmains.com/keqing/#Physical_Keqing)
The Diluc team should be smashing everything but as a fellow Keqing user (Electro) I personally benched her for this rotation because she wasn't getting it done and I was only getting 33 stars until I switched.
I don't play physical Keqing and I don't have Diluc but he plays like Hu Tao which I do have so personally my teams would be:
Keqing - Beidou - Diona - Rosaria? Fischl?
Diluc - Xingqu - Bennet - Sucrose (VV)
Use the Diluc team on the first half and Keqing on the second half but be warned the Ruin enemies have a built in 30% resist to physical damage. To be honest this rotation is just gonna suck for you with your line up. Also to answer your original question imo
Talents -> Artifacts -> Characters (With talents you can guarantee improvement while artifacts are rng)
I see you have 50/100 crits, then what actually mattered the most is talent, level and weapon levels.
There is room for artifacts.
Skill is important when your team cannot just dump dmg and force through it.
yeah. i have to upgrade my talent levels and weapons. both keqing, diluc and kaeya have their weapons at 90 but the rest are stuck at 70 or 80. i have a lot to farm now lol
edit: also i relate to your username lol. i had to upgrade some nasty cups solely because of how rare they are lol
Hahahaha, I have given up on the pyro cup. Anyways, the more promising stats for crit would be more than 60/130, aim for that when you finishing up the farming.
Okay let me give you some tips
Use national team which is xiangling/bennet/xq/flex (maybe sucrose). This team will surely give you at least 3 star total. Just focus more on crit ratio and avoid having too many er since high/low tide will help you gain energy(only useful for this abyss rotation bcoz xiangling really need er)
Then your sec team use diluc or keqing
If keqing then keqing/jean with vv/beidou or fishcl/flex
thank you so much. also, i have a venti; can he replace sucrose in the national team? (i have c6 sucrose but i don’t use her because of salt lol. also not a fan of her playstyle)
Wow yeah definitely you can!! Use venti on 12-1-2 . Make sure to use his burst before those 2 fatui start to dissapear like bitch, then kill both of them . Then make sure to gain his burst back to cc both mirror maiden and
cicin mage. Xiangling is your main here ,make sure your xiangling have enough crit ratio
i had actually tried using venti before but sometimes the hydro fatui maiden just refuses to get sucked? like i’m not really sure if she’s suckable(is that a word lol). also needed a healer so i added jean but now that i’ve cleared it once, i can try again with many other comps. maybe i can use diluc, xingqiu, bennett and venti in one team?
Yeah you can "suck" her....
She has a mechanic that allows her to avoid being cc
[here check this video out to learn more](https://youtu.be/wUzZZwpKrJs)
Yeah you can use diluc in that team too (idk which is better tbh). But I've seen a lot of people using xiangling in this team comp
You can refer [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/po0lnr/spiral_abyss_september_phase_1_21_floor_12_most/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) to help you build some team
I think you should ascen your main dps to 80/90, then invest in their talent, level 8 at least for the skill dam. For Diluc you can focus in his E and Q, Keqing with her normal and E. Invest heavily in the main dps artifacts. Make sure the statistics is about 1:2 (crit:crit rate). Then you should search on youtube for rotation of battling. Like where you should stand at the begining of the battle. How you get the enemies to gather and which is needed to be noticed when fighting each enemy type. I didnt notice the positioning in the past and I got fuck up a lot, but when I can control the rotation and learn about the standing point, I can use trick to kill them in a fast amount of time. Also you can do the whole floor with a team, then switch team and go again, it will take your highest star in each chamber so don’t worry if you can’t beat the whole 3 chambers with one team.
And if you have some trouble finding the atk saint for Diluc, you can wear Element mastery - Pyro dam - Crit/Crit dam for Diluc. Only 1 more day till the Abyss is completely reset so I can help with a quick guide.
1st team: at the start of the battle, go left and hit the samurai -> wait for all samurai to gather up on the left side of the room and kill them all (stand near the wall so they won’t jump too far) -> when 2 big samurai appear, control your dam and try to kill them all at once. If you left 1 survive he will go in berseker mode (revive HP, harder to kill). -> If you fail to kill all 2 samurais at once, press esc to retry immediately.
2nd team: after killing 2 assasins, hit the mirror maiden first. She is very tanky, if you have anemo unit to group them up it is better. If not, kill the mirror maiden first.
1st team: When the Ice giant Hilichurl appears, go kill the mage first, because the Hilichurl will just jump to where you are. Chasing it is very time-consuming and you may miss your burst.
2nd team: heavily single dps focus. Bring your best single target team to kill it, make sure to save 1 Q to dogde Maguu Kenki attack. It is really tanky so bring your best dps.
Chamber 3: easiest chamber this season. Just spam your skills as much as possible. Remember to go to the worm machine one so the 3 boss can gather at your place. And try to kill and survive because they hit really hard D:.
I think team synergy is more important that having specific characters. Also, taking advantage of the knowledge about enemy types and placements is important so you can put a team that's a good match against them. You should also take advantage of the current abyss buffs as much as you can.
That said, my usual character building priority is:
1. Ascension 4
2. Max level weapon (max lvl is AR dependent)
3. Get decent artifacts - usually aiming for correct mainstats, 50/100 CR/CD for DPS characters, specially if they're the main. 180+ ER when supports.
4. Talent level 6 for core talent(s), 8 if really important for DPS.
5. Ascension 6
6. Get better artifacts
From someone who's been 36 staring for around 10 months now: Elemental Team Comps > Artifacts > Talents Levels >>> Specific Character >>> Character Level.
Specific characters are not that important unless it's something like Venti for floors with a lot trash mobs, the element is more important than the character itself.
Character level is not that important past 70. I also 9 starred with a level 26 amber or a level 20 Chong on my team. Provided your other characters are good enough, having the right elemetal syngery is more important thag having another built character. Just make sure you slap a flower and some lvl 0 hp artifacts so he doesn't die in one hit.
Make sure your main dps is absolutely cracked. For the supports (example bennet) like healers having the right set with a maxxed out flower and feather is usually enough, but the more the better. Something like 50/100 cr/cdmg is enough for a sub dps, like Fischl.
Always max out your weapons it's the easiest way to get more power into your characters.
And before you ask, no I'm not a whale. Feel free to ask for extra detaila if you want.
From my experience, you have to solve these issues:
1. Character quality: weapon level, talent level, artifacts.
2. Team comps: whether you are using a proper team where members can work well together. There are many good teams that are recommended by the community.
3. Skill: how to play your team properly, e.g: how to ensure you vape with every Diluc E, how to snapshot your Q with external buffs, how to do quick swap burst to save time, how to funnel your energy...
4. Strategy: each floor might require different characters to clear, because of enemy type, elemental resistance, shields, or floor mechanics like the tides.
a. Weapon lv lv90, talent at least lv 8 (Only necessary talents)
b. Artifacts: for main dps: atk> 220% base atk. Crit stats from artifact: 2cr+cd>=180.
Note that this is artifact only stat, do not include character innate stat or weapon stat. Don't let them fool you into thinking you have enough stat while in fact you have mediocre artifacts.From your case, I see you spent too much resource on Diona while not enough on Bennett and Xiangling. Bennett is the best support in the game and you should level up his burst to max, while Xiangling c4 is arguably the best pyro dps in the game (yes better than Diluc)
2. I don't know your roster but you have two potential good team:
\- National team with Xingqiu Bennett Xiangling and an optional choice, like Raiden, Sucrose or Chongyun
\- Diluc vape team with Xingqiu Diluc
Both team need Xingqiu however so you have to make do with the other team.
Right now your team pairing Keqing with Bennett Xiangling is not a good choice since overload is pretty bad in this case. Kaeya is also not really a good choice in Xingqiu Diluc vape team.
3. Try to search team comps or character guides
4. Also search for guides.
E.g: The current abyss has electro buff on the enemies, so electro keqing might not work, you should opt for physical keqing instead.
All of them are important, however some players waste a lot of resources in getting that extra 15% crit damage or 5%crit rate from substats, which is really not that necessary or impactful. Also after the last ascension, increasing a character level more than 80 is usually a waste
This. Most people think that God tier artifact is going to make a big difference, but it's sometimes less than a 5% of improvement in actual DPS compared to just a decent artifact.
A bit of everything I guess? For my main dps, they are level 90, talents at 9 or more, weapons at 90. For supports, they are level 80/90, talents at least 8, weapons at 80 or 90. I don't have perfect artifacts but I make sure they have the right set and right main stat for each. I can get 36 stars but it usually take me a few tries since I keep messing up my rotation.
Like someone has pointed out. You probably lack dps, so I would recommend leveling up their talents to 8 at least. Level up your weapon to 80 or 90 if you haven't already. Have your supports use 4 piece VV and 4 piece NO to shred and buff your damage.
My rule of thumb is only spend at most 1:30 min in each chamber since you need to clear both in under 3 min for full stars. If you take more than that then hit reset. It takes me less than 30 seconds to clear 12-2 first chamber but Maguu Kenki is a pain. If I do my rotation correctly then it takes 1 to 1:30 min to clear it. So yeah, since Maguu Kenki takes more time (10 second for him to stand up), try to finish the first chamber quickly so you have more time to deal with him.
lvl 90 weapons and at least lvl 8 talents.
most of my characters have been using crowns. xiao crown the auto attack, ganyu crown the auto attack, zhongli crown the pillar and meteor, eula crowned the burst, yoimiya crowned the auto attack and ayaka crowned the burst.
With those teams I think you may be able get ~6 stars if you bring talents to 8, have good weapons at 90, bring characters to 80 with max ascenion, and have decent artifacts.
However, I don't think you will be able to 36* the current abyss with those teams, unless you somehow get godlike artifacts or 5* weapons. I think you're missing strong dps characters and Keqing may hold you back. The teams are not ideal either since the Diluc team wants Bennet as well.
diluc and keqing are my only 5 star dps characters. i don’t like jean’s normal attack so i usually use her as a healer. my other 5 stars are venti and raiden and well, they can’t really be used as dps so my best option would probably be xiangling (i think?)
Xiangling is great, but you already have a pyro team with Diluc, and all pyro teams want Xingqiu and Bennet. The same goes for Raiden. She also is best with the national. I think the strongest single team you can build is probably Raiden national with Xiangling/Raiden/Bennet/Xingqiu but that raises the question of what the second team should be...
Maybe something like the following could work:
The first one is a standard Diluc team, I'm actually running the same just with Kazuha instead of Venti. In the second team Raiden and Xiangling are carrying the team and doing most of the damage. Xiangling is there to remove the electro aura from the floor 12 enemies.
Artifacts for sure, but my luck sucks
It's weapons for me. Get a few four stars refinement. Even better if five star refinements. They carry as fuck. The increase might be small, but they significantly add to dps in time trials like abyss. Otherwise artifacts. Artifacts can carry the most like when I put them even on my underleveled supports.
edited for clarification
most of my weapon refinements are for weapons i don’t use )): like r3 sacrificial fragments, r2 widsith, r3 sacrificial greatsword and favonius greatsword. i think the only refinements i have other than those which i actually use are the r2 craftable atk claymore and r2 sacrificial sword. basically i have luck in getting refinements for weapon types i don’t use lol.
From what you listed my priorities are character then artifacts then talents, talents even tho they cost so much mora and materials don’t really increase much past lvl 8 lvl 9/10 are such small increases in percentage values that it is much better to focus on good artifacts. My Ayaka is nearly perfect aside from her circlet and I currently have her at 9/8/8 and tbh going to 9 on normal attacks wasn’t necessary. It’s a lot harder to get passable artifacts because it comes down to a gambling system so it usually takes much longer, talents just come down to how much resin you have to burn for the books and then level talents. I was able to clear 12-1 - 12-3 with my Ayaka XQ perma freeze comp for the entirety of the first half.
For the second half I used one team 12-1 and one team for 12-2 and 12-3. (It’s good to try and clear some floors with certain comps so you can use other comps for the other floors) 12-1 is easily the hardest purely because the mobs are healthy and hard to lock down. I personally think that it’s actually in reverse as far as difficulty scaling goes. So with that being said if you can get 3*s on 12-1 you can definitely get 36 it’s just a matter of trial and error. I think the entire period it took me to finish was roughly 6 hours and this was my first time getting 36*s
talents are guaranteed improvement and they aren't as expensive as artifacts in terms of resin, they always get the priority, along with weapons and ascensions. artifacts are the biggest part of a character and also your worst nightmare, you focus on those only when you complete all the previous part due to the insane amount of resin for decent pieces
Your mains dps should have the best artifacts, everyone else can get away with nothing else. My Ayaka team cleared 36 starred with two lvl 20 characters on her team, tells you how much dps matters over everything else.
Just hyper focus your main damage dealer and build other 3 characters such that they buff your main dps.
I used Ayaka, Diona, Barbruh, Sucrose to clear Floor 12-1 which I found the most hardest.
Ayaka Main Dps-lvl 80/90 talent 9
Diona Buffs Ayaka with Noblesse+ battery+ shield+Heals Lvl 70-
Barbruh- Lvl 50 with Ttds no lvl 1 talent only to apply off field hydro ( works pretty good in close combat)
Finally - Em bot Vv sucrose
All investment only on ayaka and other teammates buff her u see. Only Ayaka ( bit of sucrose ) had good artifacts
Characters - Having strong dps, subdps and support characters is must if you want 36*. Having meta characters like bennet xinqui zhongli kazuha venti ganyu ayaka eula makes abyys easy. Of course you can do it with non meta character too but that'll be nightmare.
Talent - talents need to be 8-9. All my main dps talents are at 9-10 while support talents are at 8-9
Artifacts - This is the most important thing of all. Even if you have broken character with maxed talents, without good artifacts they are just trash. You need right set and right main stats with decent/good substat.
I've had my first 36* at around ar50 with 4* Razor and ninguang as dps but had strong supports like zhongli venti albedo Jean. Then i got Eula and replaced razor with her. Now i have my 36* streak going on with every abyys with Eula and ningguang team.
Clearing abyys is very easy. Anyone with decently built characters can do it But 36* abyys is challenging and needs alot investment on characters and artifacts and also having the right character makes it easier as well.
It seems you main diluc and keqing but they are considered mediocre dps at this point in game Especially keqing is really bad (no offense). You can get 36* with them but Its just takes wayy to much investment on them and need skills. You may wanna go for a meta characters if you wanna 36* easily.
Abyss isn't for casuals Its for those who have built their characters strong and wanna have some challenge So its fine if you dont wanna suffer in abyss But if you want to then go ahead.
i use diluc and keqing because they are the only dps characters i have. my other 5 stars are jean, venti and raiden lol. i guess i should save for a really good dps character
Actually everybody does have a meta character for free - Xiangling.
Raiden national - One of the new meta comp which consists of,
You can invest in this team Its really strong. You can watch videos on YT about this to know more.
You already have venti So going for Ganyu/ayaka will be really beneficial in my opinion.
Artifacts, there is no other right answer
A little bit of everything I guess. Team comps, specific enemies sometimes need specific strategies. I also consider the blessing and disorders for each floor. Your characters are probably a little under invested, lvl80 for at least for main, with 90 weapons, I usually have talents at 8 unless hyperinvesting is more beneficial (like ganyu's CA).
I think the characters don't matter as much as the synergy between them, like 2 good characters sometimes just don't really work well in one comp.
All of my dps are at level 90, weapon at level 90, all artifacts at level 20 and at least one talent at level 10, for anybody else sub-dps or healer are level 80 not ascended, weapons at level 80, talents at least level 8 and artifacts at level 16, some of my sub dps don't have the best artifacts. I usually take in consideration the enemies at each floor and build my team according to the enemies weakness, so I'll say that you need to balance all of the 3 that you mentioned.
For me Talent 1st, Artifact 2nd. Also, line up synergy should make sense somehow with respect to enemies. If you can make 4pcs support artifacts work like tenacity and noblese, it will help alot. Please note that for your damage dealers, talents should be level 9 with lvl 20 5star artifacts with the right stat and decent crit damage ratio are neccessary
But aside from those, you need a little play in your positioning. For example in chamber 1, after defeating 3 samurai, i usually run to the side so that the 2 kairagi will group up when they approach me. In this way, i can efficiently control and damage them at the same time. Same goes to chamber 3, but sometimes luck happen and they clump together.
My characters on abyss usually are:
Albedo kazuha xinqiu rosaria (3 sub dps & 1 support)
Zhongli xiao bennett mona
Dont forget to maximize the leyline effects and remove elemental buff on enemies or you wont be dealing much.
I think they are all important, to a certain degree.
Characters are the base of your investment. While in theory every character can 36 star, a "meta" character will reduce the necessary investment compare to a "weaker" character. E.g xiangling and yoimiya
Talents are also important, until they reach a certain point. E.g beidou's e doesnt need to be higher than 6, and going talent LV higher than 8 on any skill is a very big investment of your time (resin)
Finally, artifacts. Probably the most power jump you can get comes from a good artifacts set. They are also what you'll be spending the most of your resins farming.
If you define "importance" relatively to the amount of time you spend (farming, in this case), I'd say artifacts is the most important, but only after you've done the bare bone basics to make your character work.
The most direct answer to your question is artifacts - they are the biggest determinant in your dmg after character and weapon level.
Theres a baseline of characters and talents needed, but so long as you got imprtant talents at 6, and enough characters for two teams that make sense - focus on your AF. It isnt necessary to obsess over making meta teams, i 36* abyss since the the second abyss cycle and most of the time that was with 1 team using razor as my main, and a second one using venti with whatever config made sense for specific floors (but not hyper meta teams like morgana, more like Venti, xianling, bennet + flex). Its just artifacts.
"There are no bad characters, only bad artifacts."
-- Master Oogway
Honestly certain characters like ganyu, ayaka, hutao make a big difference in clear times vs diluc/keqing (not that diluc/keqing are bad)
Artifact, team comp+rotation, and game knowledge (enemy attack pattern, leyline buff/debuff, how to manipulate game AI(flashback to tower defense floors))
Also your team comp is kinda weird?
It would be better if you do this :
* Keqing, diona, xinqiu, fischl (electro charge)
* Bennett, diluc, rosaria, kaeya (reverse melt)
i used that team comp because i use physical keqing (so diona) and needed bennett to do the most damage possible because of her stamina issues. xiangling’s there because her burst can do good damage and resonance.
also diluc is in the second team because i needed xingqiu for the pyro fatui dudes.
also, i don’t have rosaria built yet so it’s going to take a while but thank you so much!!
Alright make sense i guess since you don't have a built karya/rosaria
Do not take healers and be ready to reset a lot, make teams for specific floors and rooms.
What matter the most is can you pass the dps check with your team in time or not. If not, than you basically need to switch team. Dps check itself is how much damage you need to dish out to clear a half chamber based on enemies hp. So yeah you need to calculate your team dps sadly.
This current abyss have 1.1 million dps check thus your team need to be able to dish out at least that amount of damages in the span of 90 seconds or less. Remember that those 1.1 million is the total hp or all enemies in one half chamber.
To achieve this, all of those factor is important but I would say characters is tied with team composition thus you need to pick the right team. If you don't know what team to pick than there are some well established teams like national team (bennet, xiangling, xingqu, sucrose. Sucrose can be substituted with kazuha or venti. Xingqu can be substituted with childe.) Or mogana (mona ganyu venti diona). Talents and artifact is important but doesn't need to be maxed out. Talent lv 8 is sufficient. Decent artifact is also sufficient as long as you can pass the minimum stat threshold to play comfortably.
Artifacts by far. Most of my supports are 70/80 with lvl 8 bursts.
Anemo supports are the exception since swirl scales with EM and lvl so artifacts substats don‘t really matter.
I think one of the most important things thinks is going with teams that synergies really well, so use meta teams…
Apart of that talents 7+ of everyone, good artifacts for dps and decent for supports or sub dps and most important fact a lot of retries so everything can go in the perfect scenario for you (? Just managed to get 36 stars today, the thing I changed from before it was using some of the most used teams in abyss, well people use them for something
What matters the most is the PRIMOGEMS!
Keqing & Diluc will need at least 1800 attack and 60:150 crit ratio with level 8 talents and levelled to 80/90
You also need to level up Xiangling & Bennet to at least 80/80 with at least 50:120 crit for Xiangling and Bennet with the weapon with the highest base attack you have (mine is P. Rancour)
You can also put another Pyro in Diluc teams for the resonance. Kaeya+Xingqiu on Diluc makes for shatter and not melt which is not ideal. Even an unlevelled amber would be fine.
The above will at least you 6 stars in floor 12 with barely any effort.
My teams are
1. Keqing, Diona, Xiangling, Bennet
2. Hutao, Zhongli, Venti, Xingqui
First team is exactly the same as yours. The second is the same reaction comp, but different characters. Both teams clear all chambers in around 90-120s one side. I could try for 9 stars, but it requires way too much effort for just 50 primos. I feel it just isnt worth the trouble. My teams clears the whole abyss in around an hour for 550 primos.
A good selection of characters might be more important than good gear, in my experience. But your teams look decent. You said your characters are decently built. I don't know what that means to you, so I can't say your artifacts aren't the problem. Try to level up the weapons that matter (i.e. not Diona's) to 90 if you haven't. Level 8 talents also help, but they won't make as much of a difference as better artifacts, I suspect. Tbh your artifacts are probably the problem. It takes a long time to get good ones.
36 star f2p player here lol, I think artifacts and talents matter the most, ofc good chara matters too but I cleared one side with all 4\* team (national comp, granted I know its one of the strongest team in the game) and second side with ayaka freeze. Every person thinks differently tho so idk.
Until 11-3, characters/talents and stategy
12 is just a big DPS check floor, só definitely artifacts.
I think many people have answered your question, but I wanted to add a few thoughts from an averagely skilled player with Welkin/BP and only some of the male 5*s (so no ganyu, hutao etc).
- I've been consistently getting 36* since around albedos banner. The latest abyss definitely has the highest dps check - which means little room for mistake that can cost dps.
- learning the mob mechanics pushed me from that 34 star to 36 star. You really want to do your optimal rotation and position yourself so that you do as much AOE as possible. Crowd control is very important.
- Buffs: Anemo characters with VV set are really good, and I always have someone wearing 4 set noblesse as well. Obviously Bennett is 6*. Dont have Sara so I can't comment.
- Make sure you are buffing the right element for your dps. If you use thrilling tale, remember to switch to it before you switch into your dps. Don't just go just spamming skills like mad.
All three matter. To me, artifacts matter the most. For all the abyss I've beaten, my characters talents aside from Diluc (and now Raiden) are at 6/6/6. At the time of this writing, pretty much all of my characters have a full set +20 artifacts.
Its totally doable to 9 star F12, its only a matter of choosing the right characters with the right (and best available) artifacts, using the right abilities at the right time with the most optimal rotation in order to get the most damage out of your buck.
Level up all important talents, I think for keqing and diluc getting 9/9/9 is solid. For supports you only need it focus on one or 2 specific talents lie xq and Bennet burst. Level up your dps and subdps weapons to 90. Get good artifacts with substats for dps and good mainstat artifacts for supdps and supports. Another important thing is to learn the optimal strategy for each chamber. There's plenty of YouTube videos talking about it, I recommend zy0xs abyss guide.
Weapon > talents > artifacts. Every damage dealer should have a lvl 90 weapon and talents over lvl 6 and lvl 20 artifacts, prioritize artifacts main and secondary stats over sets (ATK%/DMG Bonus/Crit) You want your units to have a good crit rate/crit dmg ratio. A starting point should be 50/100.
Op characters honestly. Sure, artifacts and talents are very important, but the character choice is in my opinion the most important. I don't intend to disregard your teams by any means, but your Diluc and Keqing teams would probably be better off if you replaced them by either one of the newer dps characters (Ayaka, Hu Tao, Eula, Ganyu, Xiao) or a 4 star. The OG 5 star dps characters have been powercrept, as much as it hurts me to admit it. I'm a Keqing enthusiast myself and I wish Keqing was as viable as the other dps I mentioned earlier, but she always ends up behind. Even behind some 4 star characters. I wasn't able to 36 star the abyss until I got Ayaka, and that on it's own should say enough 😔
i don’t mind replacing them since i’ve already used them a lot (friendship 10 for both) but i don’t have any other dps units ): i hope we have a really good dps unit come out soon (and i win the 50/50 on them lol)
Weapons > Character levels (80/90 main dps/sub dps, 70/80 supports ) > Talents > Artifacts
the main part about artifacts is that you should be aiming for
Correct set > Main stats > Substats
substats arent as important
especially on supports. they really only care about the main stat and weapon level.
you want the correct main stat, and its easier to do 2 elemental dmg + 2 att % and do better
aim for 1 good substat with ur main stat
Complete Set isn't as important as individual artifact strength unless the 4piece is just broken(4blizzard,4VV,4emblem,etc) rainbow artifact works as long as you have the main+substat
Having the wrong artifact set but have the right main+substat is better (as long as it didn't interfere with your playstyle)
Top tier teams can output as least twice as much dps as your teams. So characters/teams do matter a lot.
Talent 6 is okay for supports (don’t level supports’ auto-attack…) in general with the exception of key skills like Bennett ult. You want your carry’s talent to be around lvl 8 at least, but it’s not too big of an improvement.
Artifacts can make huge differences. Judging from your clear times you can probably get at least 50% more dps by having good artifacts.
If you have 5-star weapon for your carry, that can be up to 30% dps gain on your carry as well.
There is also the factor of how well you understand reactions and how you play. That can easily account for maybe 30% of dps as well.
I don’t suggest being pressured by abyss to pull for characters/weapons, although that can be a huge improvement for you. I think the logical solution is to be more patient and farm more artifacts.
i spent more than a month each farming for keqing and diluc until i found something manageable and gave up. both keqing and diluc use 4 star attack sands because i’ve only come across one 5 star crimson witch attack sands which sucked and have never seen a pale flame attack sands. i have more energy recharge and em sands than attack lol ):
Well, as a day 1 player I still have many pieces missing for my sub-dps characters. The RNG of artifact farming means that it’s highly likely that you miss one piece and have to make compromises. (And I actually love this, I find the lack of perfect options creates more depth to theory-crafting.)
And mastering the art of making compromises can make a huge difference. For many newer players, giving up on set bonuses can be the best choice. Focus on delivering the best stats to your Diluc and forget about the Witch set might work out for you. I think I only switched to Witch set on my Klee after 4 months of playing the game. Also, EM sands can also work well on Diluc if the sub stats work out. I suggest googling a dps calculator to see how your options work out.
That said, you probably still need to farm artifacts for a while before being able to 36-star abyss, and please tell yourself that it’s fine and don’t be pressured to pull and don’t be discouraged at your bad artifact drops(because artifact farming is indeed 99% bad drops).
i really needed the last part lol. thank you so much!! though i have to say i’m not looking forward to farming more artifacts again (i’m currently focusing on emblem for raiden)
Swap your bennet with xinqiu. XQ works better with keqing. XQ and diona already heal. Put a fischl or some other good support on team 2. Tbh, ur teams are too weak rn. Plus keqing is bad. The fact that you beat floor 12 is VERY impressive ngl.
i use physical keqing so wouldnt using xingqiu kind of ruin the reaction? unless you mean to freeze them with xingqiu and diona and then use keqing? ngl i don’t really like keqing either especially because of her stamina issues but i only use her and invested in her because well,, i desperately wanted zhongli and got her. she is probably my best built character after xingqiu lol
XQ doesnt override the physical attacks, it just applies extra hydro damage. So polearm and sword users benefit a little better than a clunky claymore like diluc.
What do you mean good cr/cd
How much are your crit stats
1:2 crit rate/crit dmg. most of my characters have their crit rate above 50% and crit dmg between 90-130
That is far more enough. The problem is your teambuilding, rotation and tricks.
Yeah you need to get more crit damage tbh. My diluc has 60/154 crit with 9 10 9 talents but I still only managed 35 stars lol. So I guess you next goal is to get 3 stars then try for 6 stars.
welp time to farm crimson witch again. hopefully i can finally get a 5 star atk sands with good stats lol
Yeah man it is gonna take some time to get great stats. Probably weeks or months
The only thing that matters is Gouba team with average artifact and another well built team with good artifacts.
I have heard people say this, but I feel like most of the enemies are massive DPS checks. Personally, I think you can mitigate this a little bit if you build a strong freeze comp like Morgana/Moryana. Though not everyone can afford it and I don't like using it on Maguu Kenki. It hurts to say, but clearing 36* does come down to luck. Sometimes an enemy will either back-up or teleport out of your burst and that's what makes freeze comps comfy to me. If I were to give some pointer, try to stagger enemies in chamber 1 to make full use of your DPS burst.
As for teams, I used Moryana with Kazuha as the anemo support. The other is Hu Tao, Raiden, XQ, and Bennet. Hu Tao and pals took care of 12-1-1 before switching sides for the rest of the floor.
Keqing and Diluc have aged over time and there are a lot of DPS characters that have outshine them especially Keqing. I'm sure you can clear with them at 36*, so perhaps you should maybe consider drafting your teams differently to give more synergy. Kaeya might be too redundant when there's XQ and overload could be troublesome for a character that has stamina issues like Keqing.
F2P here, 36\*-ing since January 2021.
Characters, talents, and artifacts all matter, and part of the challenge of Genshin is to figure out how to get the most value out of your resin since improving on every front is just...prohibitively expensive. A general benchmark for getting a character "Abyss 12 ready" is something like:
1. Level 70+ (80+ ascended for hypercarry DPS like Ganyu)
2. Important talents level 8
3. \+20 artifacts with correct main stat, and at least 15 rolls (my personal shorthand: each CRate, CDmg, ATK% substat increase counts as a roll, flat ATK counts as 1/3 of a roll, other stats like EM, ER, HP%, etc. count as rolls situationally for certain characters)
When I first got 36\*, I had around 3-5 characters out of 8 hovering around that benchmark. Granted Abyss has higher hp bars nowadays, so you might need either more Abyss-ready characters, or one or two characters who are significantly above that level. The direction of investment will depend on your team, e.g. for any National-esque team, it makes sense to build all 4 members at the same time, whereas for a Ganyu or Xiao team you should prioritize their talents and artifacts. For reference, once your hypercarry has around 25 rolls, Abyss 12 becomes easy enough that you can kind of put whatever on your other 3 members.
In general, the investment that matters the most is the one you have the least of. That's simple opportunity cost. Don't waste resin searching for minimal upgrades when it can be better used elsewhere. As a guideline, 80/90 for carries, 70/80 for supports. Key talents should be level 8 minimum. Artifacts should be at least 50 CR 70 CD for most carries and all your units should have enough ER to burst off cooldown. Weapons should be 90 ASAP.
For personal advice, based on the characters shown I would run Diluc + Xingqiu, and Bennett + Xiangling. If you have Childe, run him with XL, and if you have Rosaria you can run a nasty reverse melt quickswap of Bennett XL Kaeya Rosaria. Otherwise run an anemo unit with VV on both halves, i.e. build Sucrose/Kazuha if you have them. Ditch Keqing because you have Diluc and XL. Ditch Diona because you have Bennett and Jean and you're not running a freeze team/Eula.
Case by case. Can be anything. Depending on abyss rotation and your preferred team comps.
Certain abyss rotations enforce mechanic checks (electro aura on current 12-1, Lectors/Heralds, elemental cubes on current 11-3, Fatui shields) that may require specific elements to deal with in a reasonable time. Specific elements narrow down the character selection. It can be as simple as Razor vs Ruin Guards.
Transformative reactions don't care about weapons and talents (except EM on some weapons), so having tazer Sucrose with 1/1/1 talents is no big deal. But character level matters more than in other cases.
Anemo in general relies on character levels much higher both with swirl damage and typical 20 level difference requirement for targets to be affected by anemo CC skills (get your Jean to at least 80/80 ASAP - yeets are a big help on 12-1-2). So said tazer Sucrose can be 1/1/1 all she wants, but 90/90 is highly encouraged unlike most other characters.
Levels also matter for characters whose damage scales off DEF and HP because there's no external source of base DEF/HP (base ATK has weapon ATK, EM is always a flat stat), and there's no DEF/HP team buff (like Bennet). So their base stats have more weight in total stat value. Levels also matter for Bennet (and now Sara), because base attack matters for their buffs.
Talents are generally the easiest upgrade for characters that deal damage via anything that's not transformative reactions unless specific cases (Yoimiya E that almost doesn't scale with talent levels). It's not even so much their raw impact (which matters too). It's the ease of acquision. Getting talent from 8 to 9 is less impactful that getting a better artifact, but is much easier.
Artifacts are important and in certain cases game changing (Blizzard Strayer 4p or 4vv), but it's extremely resource intensive to get them above "okay" level, so it might be wiser to prioritize other things first because you can get those things in a guaranteed timeframe.
1. You need to build your comp around per floor and chamber.
2. lvl6 talents is low investment.
3. max lvl Artifact with correct main stat and decent substat.
4. Analyze enemy attack/movement patterns
It's a combination of character builds (having talents decently high, with good artifacts and leveled weapons) + team comp + skill. Skill being the most important factor. It's no use giving Morgana or national to someone who doesn't know how to use them. They will struggle to even pass abyss let alone 36*.
I am the kind of player who usually only has a few seconds left for all stars. Last time in 12-2 I beat the Maguu Kenki at exactly 7:00. So compared to the players who have no trouble getting all the stars, I notice the little differences in team comps, artifacts, talents and so on because they are often the determining factor in getting 2 or 3 stars.
Personally, after considering the characters don't just have random artifacts, low level, talents and weapons, team comps are the *most* important. It makes a huge difference to take characters that work in a specific fight. To have the right elemental reactions. To not have characters in a team that are detrimental to take together (like taking hydro AND cryo together with Diluc results in triggering shatter reactions instead of vaporize and melt, because Diluc's attacks are heavy attacks - so Diluc, Xingqiu, Kaeya is a DPS loss over taking a non-cryo character with him). In the case you use Keqing as physical DPS, taking a cryo character with her would be good because you could trigger superconduct.
Another big factor for me is *luck*. Sometimes, the enemies jump out of reach for too long, teleport somewhere annoying, don't stack together, have some random element on them that messes up my elemental reactions.
Then, of course, artifacts. If you have good artifacts you can also take a sub DPS that's only lvl 60 sometimes. If among the artifacts there's one that's only 4 star it's totally fine if the stats are good. For example, my Tartaglia has a 4 star cup with crit and atk rolls, because its 5 star equivalent has *only* hp and def. Some of my sub DPS and supports have artifacts at 12 or 16 that I couldn't finish leveling yet. Like, why level Diona's feather to 20 when it probably won't increase her energy and hp anyway? Try to get okayish stats. My Diluc has "only" 60:145 crit, but usable crimson witch artifacts are so rare. But he has decent atk and em. For a lot of characters substats are more important than set bonuses, for others the set bonus is very important - for example VV on some anemo characters for the debuff, or have a Noblesse user in your team.
Talents are important as well of course. Lvl 8 *can* be enough on your DPS though. My Ayaka's normal attack is only at lvl 8, but her burst is at 9, skill only at 7 even. My Diluc's talents are all at 10 though, because he's my favorite character. But 9/9/8 would have been enough. For sub DPS, I level the most important talent(s) to 7 or 8 at least. 6 is too low for the important abilities. It's fine for some though.
Most of my sub DPS and supports only have lvl 80/80 weapons. My DPS have lvl 90 weapons. It's great if you have at least a good substat/usable passive on your weapon, so no physical dmg weapon for Diluc, unless you don't have anything else (or it's a 5 star in some cases). 4 star weapons are totally fine on your DPS. My Diluc has only a 4 star weapon as well.
Regarding bursts and skills, it's super important to cast them in the right order. For example, use your strong attacks *after* you buff your character/debuff the enemy. Like, don't just randomly cast Sucrose's skill when there's no element to swirl. And after you swirl it, use your strong elemental abilities/reactions to make use of the buff. The same with if a support character has 4 Noblesse artifacts and you use their burst, because it buffs your atk stats for a few seconds.
I usually don't manage to get all stars with one team either. Like, I had a team that could 3 star 12-1 and 12-3, but had to do it again with another team for 12-2. And *always* make sure all characters' bursts are up or almost up at the beginning of *each* fight.
My teams are for example: Diluc, Xingqiu, Kazuha, Zhongli (would be faster with Bennett, I know) / Xiao, Albedo, Zhongli, Jean / Ayaka, Xingqiu, Kazuha, Diona. So I have to switch characters around because I have no fixed teams. Like, if I want to take Diluc in one group and Ayaka in the other, I have to take Mona instead of Xingqiu and Venti instead of Kazuha, but with those I'm slower, especially against the huge fast-moving enemies that aren't affected much by Venti's burst and move out of Mona's skill. I don't have any other well geared main DPS other than Diluc, Xiao and Ayaka though.
If you have any other questions, just ask! I know how hard it can be to clear these fights faster. It often seems really impossible at first.
I do believe they matter equally though Team composition and proper rotations helps alot. I had many abyss runs that failed due to messing up with rotations + lacking enough energy for burst.
The main fun for abyss for me is experimenting teams that might work best together since endgame right now is just endless artifact grinding and leveling up characters. Building many characters can help you alot since the Abyss changes every patch and you can't use the same teams forever.
For the stats lvl80 with lvl8 talents is minimum to 36* to be achievable. Good artifacts matters alot too since you want to squeeze as much damage as possible because of the time limit.
Just try build as much experience as possible in the abyss, since even if you have a good team you won't be able to clear it in time if you kept messing up.
They all matter, though with slightly more weight to artifacts. The biggest power spike for talents would be around level 8, where you can pause at 8 to invest in other characters.
Diona being level 90 is very questionable, as she does not need to be above level 70 ascended (would have been much better to level Xiangling to 90). Your team synergy is also questionable. Diona is really only good with another cryo DPS, and you already have a Bennet in that team for heals/buff, so she provides 0 value in team one - unless you have another cryo DPS you should swap her out with almost anyone else you have (preferably some anemo support for VV). Xiangling would pair better with Kaeya, or even Xingqiu than Keqing or Diona.
The best thing you can probably do with these chars to help damage is just keep building Xiangling - she's *super* strong properly built and out-classes Diluc in AoE and reaction damage. Then build some anemo character (i.e., sucrose/traveler) for the VV artifact debuff / thrilling tales.
If you need help building characters: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gNxZ2xab1J6o1TuNVWMeLOZ7TPOqrsf3SshP5DLvKzI/htmlview?pru=AAABenzi8LQ\*LvlNInWh0KlUetVpOlBrMQ#
diona is at level 90 for her shield. also, thank you so much!!
As you might have figured out by now, Genshin is heavily DPS-check focused. It's a waste of resources to level pure supports above level 70 ascended since they provide no damage boost - and a Diona shield at level 90 is only marginally better than a Diona shield at level 70 or level 80.
The boost for most characters from level 80 -> 90 is also simply not worth it 99% of the time for the 5-8% benefit - you get much more value using those resources taking a support from 60-80 and having more flexibility in your team comps, for example.
Of course, none of this matters if you really like Diona and just wanted her at level 90 to flex (I leveled [Barbara and Noelle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-4yu0Q2_cE) to 80/90 for example, and use them to clear Abyss). But if you want to clear abyss sooner, you need to use your limited resources more wisely, then level characters to 90 to flex after you are able to 36 star.
You could probably use the national team to clear out one half, but for the second half I'm not sure since you have diluc, and xingqiu is needed for him but if you put him on national who would be dps for other half?
Sorry by not being much help, but you could try this to see if you can at least clear one half quickly
Investing in artifacts, wealons and talents give you a baseline to clearing abyss. What I find most important is having the right characters, team comps and optimizing rotations. When 2.0 abyss first came out it took me a whole day to 3 star 12-1 but now that I found the optimal team comps and rotations I can clear it under 2 minutes.
I recommend watching abyss clears on youtube. You'll have to wade through a lot of high investment, low skill clears but you'll eventually find clears with 4 star characters with middle level investment.
I had the same teams, with same talent levels and same weapons on 2 different builds messing around after I 36 starred. One build did it easily, for others I really had to struggle. So it's that
You should change your team comps. I'd recommend switching kaeya and diona and putting rosaria instead of keqing. That'll make a quick swap reverse melt team which is pretty good in this abyss.
For your second half put sucrose with thrilling tales instead of jean. Sucrose gives you em buff and thrilling tales gives you more atk on your diluc. Use diona as your healer. Also make sure to swirl pyro on the fatui agents as their high pyro res is probably one of the things that makes your clear longer.
Imo: Knowledge -> Characters -> Talents -> Artifacts.
You can't do much until you know how combat / reactions / character stats work.
Or you can do it without research too, with c2/c4 characters + weapon banner + resin refresh, like I do usually.
As others have already stated: All factors matter.
It makes sense since everything is 'literally' a factor.
Atk \* Critfactor \* (EM) \* Talentmultiplier \* (potential resistance shred)\* ...
I suggest leveling all damage-potent talents to 8. For very strong talents (Xiangling Q) you can go 9 or 10, but this isn't mandatory.
However, unlike what some other people are saying I don't think character level is that important. 70/80 (Ascension 5) is a good place to stay for everyone, special characters can go to 80/90 A6. For example some characters gain crit/elemental bonus from ascensions.
It's something I can only recommend for your biggest damage dealers.
Lastly, and perhaps most importantly: Artifacts.
You will spend the vast majority of your resin on artifacts.
It is in my opinion mandatory to go for a minimum 50/100 (critrate/critdamage) ratio for your damage dealers. If you can squeeze out more, that's great.
My Hu Tao has 65/130 for a ratio, but I have been farming the crimson witch domain for 2 months of resin.
Give your supports a noblesse set! Even using 4-star pieces this set gives you a lot of bang for your resin and supports are not that stat-hungry.
The rest is team compositions and frankly skill.
At a glance I would assume your Diluc team is quite a lot stronger than your Keqing team.
You only really need decent artifacts and a good team comp.(plus good grouping strats)
If you have subpar artifacts on your main and sub I think you should be able to at least 3-6 star this abyss but I can see your team has synergy issues.
Team 2 no Resonance hurts quite abit. Kaeya in that team is not doing you any favours. Switching to him will most likely be lowering your damage.
Team 1 I assume ur doing Keqing main dps but I can't tell what kind of keqing it is. But an overload comp without sucrose is also kinda bad.
Try running something along the lines of :
Team 1 Keqing, Beidous/Fischl, Kaeya, Jean
Edit: Team 1 requires a physical Keqing but it isn't too difficult to swap in a physical goblet and some changes to her playstyle
Team 2 Diluc, Xiangling, Bennett, Xingqiu
Talent level, artifact then characters.
But most importantly, know the mechanics.
Like xiangling ultimate does not have ICD, and can trigger reaction very quickly, diffusing the lightning shield provided in 12-1 very fast
Jean can lift and drop enemies to deal massive damage, but she can't lift enemies if the enemies are 15 lvls above her, and low talent on her E skill
U can't permafreeze with kaeya ult and xingqiu ult as Diluc can shatter the freeze with claymore
Electrocuted reaction can stop mirror maiden from teleporting, etc. All these combined will help you 36*
in terms of bang for your buck talent levels are probably the most important. they scale much better and even if you had god artifacts you'll do bad damage without talents. artifacts are second most important as these define your character and allow them to do dps. finally while its still important character is by far the least important, whats more important js overall team comp and your skill at the character. theres a reason why zhong and bennett are so good, they fit anywhere
Artificats are important, but teams and their rotation prevails in my opinion.
Up until Yoimiya banner I had 0 real dps in my team and played with Supports only or Support-turned-into-dps like Benett and Noelle. Benett with Chongyun carried me for 7 months, thanks to their incredible synergy despite their limited damage.
Here are my comps :
Noelle dps - Burst Geo traveller - Nuke Zhongli - Support Albedo (cause Mihoyo would only give me DEF)
Yoimiya dps - Benett support - Kazuha Support - Diona support (cause EM ftw)
Artificats wise, unfortunately you can only "do the best you can with what you get". Aim for the good main stats, you can be picky afterwards when time pass by (because the only thing gating you to get better artificats is time and resin).
Try unusual combinations, one character can be built very differently each. As people suggested you can swap some of your characters, Xianling for instance is very effiicent when it comes to killing the flies in Room 12.1.2. Diona is one of the best support against Maguu Kenki as well. And also try to get two characters of the same element in one team, double cryo for example allow you to get +15% Crit rate.Can be good if you put Diona and Kaeya together along with Diluc and Xingqiu.
Do not hesitate to die and retry, and take your time. You will notice little by little what can be improved in each team :)
They all matter but there is a priority on which to focus on, at least for me, but only up to a certain point. It really depends but generally you'll want your main dps to be at least level 80/90 with the talents at at least level 8 with good artifacts, i.e, main stats are appropriate for dps and 1:2 CR:CD ratio. As for the supports, I usually just go for Noblesse for them initially and gradually change them up to which is the best for them. It wasn't a sudden 36 stars clear for me for sure. It was more of a gradual process getting those stars.
On a side note, you should probably replace Kaeya on second team with Amber for the pyro resonance. I presume you're using Xinqiu for vaporise? Kaeya will just mess up with your reactions there. As others said, reactions and proper skill rotations matters a lot too in abyss.
No...no...characters, talents, artifacts and skill
Dps: 80/90 8+/8+/8+ (depending on which talents matter more for character)
Supports: 70/80 1/8/8
Artifacts: +20 artifacts with correct main stats and at least 2-3 rolls into good substats.
Weapons: 90/90 4\*
Once you get this base performance, teams >> more talents/levels/artifacts.
I 36\* with one meta team for 1st half (Ganyu/XL/Bennet/Zhongli) and leftover team for the 2nd (Razor/Fischl/Diona/XQ), but I do have higher investment (up to 10 on important talents for dps and key supports, better artifacts).
im guessing in this case its your artifacts and team synergy. you stayed alive so thats a good sign but you are lacking dps. were you setting up reactions? making use of bennett? you should also keep in mind a lot of the people you see clearing abyss so easily are using event dps characters rather than keqing and diluc, who have been fairly outclassed by now. not saying they are bad characters but someone like hu tao or ayaka far outclasses them.
Only the 1 carry on each team of mine have decent artis (2k atk, 50% cr and 100% cdmg minimum).
My supports have correct 2/4-piece set effects with the right main stat. substats don't matter.
Talents for my carries are 8 where it matters, 6 for supports.
maxed weapon levels of whatever I can best give them. Even skyrider on xingqiu until I got sac sword helped me to 36.
Lastly team comp which is the hardest imo. Every change in SA begs for a comp change and you aren't expected to 36 the abyss with the same comp each time, or even each chamber. You can leave the floor to redo the chamber with a different team, and sometimes because of my lacking of more options, I have to redo the entire floor to tackle for example, chamber 3 with the best comp I can cough up.
For this cycle 12-1 is the tricky chamber so I'd just ensure I get 3 stars on 12-2 and 12-3 then redo 12-1 with a different team that's best for clearing it fast as possible. Venti's pretty useless in the subsequent floors but he's still beast in 12-1.2 with the small enemies.
It's a mix of all the above, and there are definitely diminishing returns on some things before the others catch up. I.e. if you ignore artifacts completely, those extra character/weapon or talent levels don't do all that much for you. Same for artifacts when you're at lvl 1 talents and underleveled characters, though artifacts on their own make the most difference from what I can tell. A new character with good artifacts can be useful enough even as you wait for ascensions or talents.
But team comp is another factor you haven't mentioned. If you pair units that cover each other's weaknesses and enable the reactions you need, that's how you make great teams. That's why the national team is so strong despite no 5*.
In your particular case, as someone else said, your first team doesn't have a lot going for it. Keqing is one of the weaker main DPS because she has no amplifying reactions and her transformative ones ain't all that great either (with the best arguably electrocharged, but your XQ is with diluc).
Artifacts and Reactions. Also a little bit of meta characters.
I don't exactly 36 star abyss but i do usually get 30-35 of them each reset. All of them does matter.
It is dependant on how you utilise them, for instance, supports can provide very good value if you use their strengths and synergise them with your main dps. But if they serve no purpose, it's better to use another character.
It's really crucial because the damage increase each level is quite noticeable. Most people recommend leaving them at level 8 (for talents that you use only, the ones you don't use such as a support's AA is not required unless the support capabilities is through the AA)
It's the highest power spike in your character. You don't need god rolls or very good rolls. Good or Decent rolls is already enough. It's better to focus the artifact on ALL team members rather than throwing everything to your main dps. This will improve way more compared to throwing everything to your dps. Your support and sub dps'es stats matter too, eg, Xingqiu wants alot of ER on him. And he is a great sub dps when built with atk, crit dmg, crit rate and Energy recharge.
But the most important out of all is neither of them. It's using the **correct strategies and good execution on rotation or just skills**
Most of the time in floor 12,people can reach the dps check, but poor execution of rotations and poor utilisation of buffs, character's kit, etc will screw them up. The thing is, practice, get used to what the enemy attacks are like, then you can determine which is lethal to avoid getting severely injured or one shotted. Learn how to execute rotations properly, learn how to get the correct strategy to group up enemies, learn how to utilise your entire team.
Now, 36 starring abyss is really much of a flex but they generally get overshadowed by those whale speedruns (f2p, dolphin category generally also gets overshadowed by whale speedruns). F12 is optional, you don't need to stress yourself too much for 36 stars, just try your best. You already get alot of value by 9 starring F9 and F10 and F11. 33 starring is alot easier compared to 36 stars. You could try for 6 starring F12 (same applies to every other floors). It's much less stressful. You only lose out 50 primogems if you can't 9 star a floor in return your sanity is intact.
Decent character level (so you don't get one shot by hilichurls) > Artifacts/Weapons > Talents > above 60 Character level
Just 36 starred it 5 hours ago. Artifacts is definitely the answer. I ran a Chongyun who's lvl 50 with lvl1 talents but gave him all my best available gear and he really helped a lot in giving me my third star in chamber 1(decided to try out a all support freeze comp) not sure how much his ult dealt but I saw his E do 10k.
I’ve 36* every abyss since 1.2
Here is my take:
Team composition > talents >= weapons and artifacts > levels (needed for talents, but not necessarily the levels themselves)
The most important part of pushing your dps is your team comp. Not sure if I need to elaborate here, but bad team synergy is what holds all of your character’s back. Good team synergy can push them beyond expectations. Take for example when the CN comp (XL, XQ, Chong, Bennett) was first debuted, some people were 36*ing abyss using a team of level 55-65 characters, simply because the synergy was *that good*.
Talents are the easiest upgrade to your dps with a very high return. As opposed to stuff like artifacts, there is no element of rng involved for a huge upgrade in your skill multipliers.
The right weapon will make a huge difference on characters. Simple stuff, looks for the right substats, adequate base attack, and if they need certain passives to excel (e.g. sacrificial effects for supports). Also don’t forget to level 90 weapons for your main damage dealers. Artifacts are obvious huge upgrades to your dps, but people tend to get the perception that you need god tier artifacts to 36* the abyss. This is simply not true. Circling back to the above priorities, as long as you have the right team setups and make sure their talents are properly invested, you can get away with using some copium artifacts as long you build for the correct main stats and aim for the proper subs. This is not to say that you shouldn’t be trying to optimize artifacts. You always should be, but prioritize the former points first before going too deep into optimizing gear.
Levels don’t really matter as much as people will tell you. The only characters where they matter are those who have double scaling (scaling both off base attack and hp, base attack and def, or def and hp - last one is unlikely to ever happen) and Anemo characters that can CC. Even then, I’ve been able to comfortably 36* abyss using only level 81 and 71 characters. Level 90 is largely unnecessary, as the cost of investment yields a relatively small return (a little better for double scaling characters like Noelle and Bennett) when you could be using the wits and mora to level up a new character to like a usable level such as 70 ascended, further expanding your roster and giving you more flexibility with creating team comps. Anemo characters need to be within 20 levels of the enemy in order to pick them off the ground (Venti, Sucrose, Kazuha, etc.), as well as recent swirl buffs both of which makes the scaling on their levels much desired. They are one of those cases where you may want to get them all the way up, or at least to level 80/90 ascended.
I hope this was somewhat insightful.
Character and by that I mean Multipliers and attack Animation speed/range matter a lot, Artifact is the 2nd biggest Value.
I did recently a f2p Boss run with F2P Characters and it took me 3x++ Longer to beat most Bosses with similar Strategy's I employ with my 5\* Teams.
I naturally used my strongest Artifacts on them.
You could try the National Team on one side, aka Bennet, Xiangling, Xingqui, Chongyun
(if you have.)
Motivation and power.
Might controls everything. And without strength , you cannot protect anything, let alone yourself.
None of them, team management matters.
I think your main DPSs should be 90 and supports should be around 80. After that, your main damage dealing talents should be 9. Also, your artifacts should be 5 stars and 20 levels with correct main stats and reasonable sub stats(1-2 good sub stats) and also, your artifact sets should align well with your characters' abilities. Lastly, team composition and enemy types matter. Keqing is not a good selection right now IMO if you are using her as electro DPS. Because floor already gives enemies electro status. You can deal more damage via elemental reactions by using different elements. You can use Xiangling, Bennett, Sucrose(if you have her)/Jean/Anemo MC, Xingqiu for the first halves. For second halves, you can build a team around Diluc or Keqing. Look at youtube or [keqingmains.com](https://keqingmains.com) for team/character building guides.
Team comps are by far the most important IMO. A team that synergies well goes a long way. The reason why Xiangling is top 2 strongest is because she has really strong team synergy, regardless of artifacts and talents.
I’d say artifacts and talents come next. Definitely level up talents because they are non-rng stats you can get. But artifacts give a much bigger boost in damage but it is rng. So I would prioritize talents first because artifact farming can take a while.
You not using meta teams is the biggest problem to be honest. You need much higher investment. This [abyss data](https://spiralabyss.org/) site shows all the best teams. National team is literally 1 of the strongest teams yet you're not using it.
I think what matters the most are the characters. Before I got Hu Tao, I couldn't clear the floors to get 3 stars on each. She is my life saver.
Now that I got Kazuha, the abyss goes smooth as butter.
To beat Abyss I always go in one team: Hu Tao, Xinqiu, Zhongli, \[flex\], and in the other: Childe, Xiangling, Bennett, Kazuha or even Kazuha, bennett, beidoiu, fischl
Impove your supports levels and farm artifacts. Especially Xiangling, Bennett, and Xingqiu. They actually do dmg intact depending on the con your at with Xiangling she will deal more Dps then your Diluc or Keqing. Get them to 80 atleast, dw you'll be using them alot most core teams want them.
If you want to stick with keqing you need a better team comp that just boosts her dmg as much as possible. And hyper invest resin farming for artifacts.
Also team comp is massive.
Artifacts, always Artifacts.....
\#2 Would be knowing your teams rotations and how to use them.
Combination of talent, Artifacts and good team Comp instead of just one good 5 star
Characters. With only decent stats and low talents you can beat abyss as long as you have the top meta teams
Honestly? Positioning and game knowledge.
You should know how to not get hit/1KO-ed.
You should know how to position yourself to bait enemies’ attacks and group them.
You should know the timing to dodge using dashes and burst frames.
That’s how cn veterans got 36 stars with very underlevelled characters.
Artifacts are the most important thing, but they are the most boring thing to farm. I've been playing since the game came out and I just started getting gadgets for my electro Keqing. Two weeks and I only have a "decent" set and it was insufferable to get it. So I decided that I would save artifact farming for last. Now I have all the characters with level 6 talents and almost all at level 81, and I can pass the 12th floor, but with 3 stars in total at most. I'm sorry to tell you, comrade, that now is the time for Genshin's most suffered part.
Contrary to what most believe, you don't need god tier artifacts. Just decent enough, normally a few weeks of farming per character. Now with emblems the time to necessary to farm a team is much less, since a lot of characters can use emblem set.
What is actually important is: team compositions, rotation execution.
Most people don't watch videos of proper rotations, and they play really suboptimal. I cannot stress enough how much you can improve your DPS with good synergistic teams and proper rotations. This is specially true with the high tide and low tide of current abyss. A lot of people don't play around it optimally.
For talents you want most at 6, and some key talents at least at 8. Weapons the ideal is to have level 90 weapons, but you can manage with level 80 of you have good enough artifacts.
Gameplay knowledge / Basics mechanical skills is greater than all of the above. The majority of players have no idea how to effectively utilize elemental reactions, cycle through supports, energy management, and the effective us of i-frames.
Truth is most players in Genshin are casual gamers. Genshin is by no means a hard game, but it does require moderate levels of pattern recognition and reflexes.
Once the above is optimized: Artifacts > Talents > Character in terms of power. Main dps should be 80/90. Sub-dps should aim for 70/80. Healers/shielders can be 50/60, but higher will be more comfy.
What matters most is how well each teammate complement each other.
My teams are:
Team first half: Childe, Baal, Xiangling and Bennett.
Why do I use them? Two of them do DMG without being on the field, which makes Childe shine, Bennett boosts and heals the party, Xiangling does insane vaporise and Baal acts like a dps when Childe is in CD. My fastest clear was
1st floor - 32s
2nd floor - 56s
3rd floor - 42s
Team second half (and my strongest team):
Geo traveler, Zhongli, Albedo and Jean.
Why? The synergy between these three is insane, albedo and Zhongli do DMG off-field and they give Geo Traveler freedom to deal dmg, since geo traveler is the main dps he needs to be on the field, jean is there to cure everybody. My albedo uses Harbinger of Dawn, which mean he needs to stay over 90% life all the time.
My fastest clear was
1st floor - 40s
2nd floor - 43s
3rd floor - 41s
To mate, talents and artifacts are super important, but you need to make your team have synergy, so each character can help one another.
Elemental reaction > weapon strength > talent level > character level > artifact optimization
all of them matter, but basically every character has a substitute, albeit it might be better or worse. Artifacts, god rolls is the dream but if you at least have the correct set and mainstat while also enhancing them (i think at least +16 might do the trick) I think you'll be fine. Talents, only upgrade what you use. DPS might profit with all of them upgraded, but some characters only need 1 skill to level, like Bennett and Xiangling Burst if you use them both. Id recommends that at least your DPS is level 90 and the other guy can stay at 70/80 unless they benefit from being leveled. Also, you will need a good weapon for all your characters and level them, they contribute much but are often being overlooked. After that, it is a matter of luck (for crit), experience, skills, and team compositions to achieve the abyss quicker for the stars
This is gonna be a very unpopular opinion but: Having good characters matter the most.
It doesn't matter if someone else can 36\* with Keqing or Xinyan or even Amber. It doesn't matter if someone else can 36\* every abyss with only 4 star lvl 70 chars. The only thing that matters is can YOU do it. At your level of investment (artifacts stats, weapons, Talent level etc.) and your own skill level. That is the control variable here.
Weaker, non-meta characters don't mean that people cannot 36\* the abyss with them. It means that they require a lot more investment and higher skill to pull off the same result than stronger, meta characters do.
For example: I have a lvl 90 Diluc with around 70% cr and 160% cd, 898 talent. He was my first 5\* char that I rolled (lost 5050 in Hu Tao banner) and I spent a lot of time building him up. But he still hits like a wet noodle and is barely adequate even when supported by Xingqiu, Bennett and Zhongli. After I rolled Ayaka I realized that she can do more damage than Vape Diluc by herself, before even factoring in reactions. That's when I stop coping and put all of the good Diluc artifacts onto my Xiangling, put her on a meta comp (with CHilde Bennett and Sucrose), which is what ultimately pushed me to 36\*.
Your 2nd team should be the stronger one due to having Diluc + Xingqiu and should be putting out more dps. Yet you said it took you 6 mins to take down Maguu Kenki. Which tells me that you are in a similar position that I was when I realized Diluc suck.
So the best thing for you to do is save up your wishes, wait for a rerun of real DPS chars like Hu Tao or Ganyu (rumored to be coming soon within 1 or 2 patches), and roll for them. To replace your Keqing and Diluc in the DPS role. In the meantime, if you are looking for improvements, you can try putting all the good Diluc artifacts on to Xiangling and have Xinqiu support her, you would probably end up with better performance. Xiangling is considered better than Diluc (and arguably the best Pyro DPS) for a reason.
For main DPS you want lv. 8 talents minimum for ones that matter. Weapons should be lv. 90. Artifact wise I'd consider a decent set to be somewhere near +100% attack minimum, and achieving a crit ratio of at least 50/100.
I think your teams could also use some work. If you're limited on characters then you'll just have to invest more into them. You can clear abyss with those teams if you like but neither are particularly good.
The abyss itself (and the bonuses surrounding it).
Some abysses are literally a character-of-the-month check. There you suck it up and 8/9 Floor 12 unless you're a whale with all 3 of character, talent or artifacts. If you're F2p, you better be Enviosity or something.
Yeah, with that team, wait for the next abyss. You can probably 6 star if you raise your team/raise your skill, but 9 will be pretty tough.
Team comp. After that is rotation. Then positioning and target, try to hit as many enemies at once as possible.
Your problem seems to be mismatched chars.
For example xiangling would be better off with diluc, since you do overload with her ult and Keqing making enemies fly away -> you run after them -> waste stamina -> lose dps.
Otherwise Talents to lvl 8 is a very easy way to get more dmg and good artifacts are a huge dps increase.
when i lvl up a fresh charecter i do their lvls first then weapon then talents to 6 6 6 or 8 8 8depends and lastly is artifacts since they will take the longest to get
why is diona 90 lol. not even diluc is 90.. and keqing without crazy good artifacts just cant keep up with abyss i feel.. have any other 5 star dps? if not, just invest in xiangling
I'll list these in the order of their importance.
So yeah, having the right characters matters a lot, however there are a lot of substitutes to a character in a team comp. (I replaced Diona by QiQi and Venti by Sucrose initially in my Morgana comp because I didn't have these characters)
Focus on the things that don't get affected by RNG much like talents levels and weapons (do not neglect your supports weapons, you should take them to 90 unless they are pure healers like Diona Barbara qiqi etc) then focus on artifacts, get good ratios instead of set bonus.
DO NOT scuff your build for the sake of a set bonus (the only set bonus in the game that is mandatory for their users is 4 VV or 4 Blizzard) then after that it comes down to your team synergy, if you stick with meta teams it will be easier and shorter time, but if you want to use certain characters that are not meta like keqing or yanfei etc then you must plat to their strength and make them work (and they will work If you pair them with good supports and high investment)
Artifact = biggest dmg spike but also biggest RNG / for slowly grow in power ascend to 80/90 > talents 1/8/8 or 8/8/8 depend on the character then going for artifact last and u will have much easier time in abyss. 9\* require game mechanic and team comp to meet the dps check but u can get 3-6\* pretty easy
I'd say it's a combination of teams, artifacts, and talents. And also skill and planning.
One of my go to teams is Klee, Bennett, Albedo, Zhongli, which isn't really one of the most meta things you'll see, but it still works really well (you'd be amazed at how good it is in 12-3, either half) because each of the characters work well together and play off of each other: Klee and Bennett together create a lot of pyro energy, making it really easy to ult often with both of them (and Klee's ult snapshots, which means she'll get the buff benefits even if she exits the circle of Bennett' Q), and the Bennett buff allows Albedo's and Zhongli's ult to also do pretty good damage even though neither is built for atk; on top of that, Klee's ult hits really often, helping you make the most of Albedo's E, and Zhongli adds geo resonance as well as a shield and resistance shred. Each of the characters works well individually with every one of the others and with the whole ensemble together. That's how a team should look like, even if it's not one of the top meta ones.
Artifacts are the single biggest factor in the numerical power ceiling of your character, but in a good team artifacts don't need to be amazing, just good enough. What good enough looks like is different from character to character, unfortunately, so I can't be too specific. Talents are also important, but you can get away with raising to more than 6 only the ones that really matter, like the auto attacks of your carry or Bennett's Q.
Once that's covered, there's strategy, rotation, and skill that need to be optimised. See which enemies you should prioritise hitting, how to bait certain annoying enemies into positions that make them a bit easier to deal with (like getting the Kairagi in 12-1 to stick together so you can damage both at the same time). Always be mindful of which character is on field when receiving energy particles, as it can make a huge difference between having as close to perfect ult uptime as possible and fumbling around for a couple dozen seconds trying to get everyone's bursts up again; sometimes it's worth waiting a second of two switching characters just because you really want to get the energy particles with the character you currently have on field. Also, get your dodging game together: sometimes you may accept to eat an attack to the face in the name of casting an E at the right time, and sometimes getting clapped at the wrong time will make you waste more time than you would have by delaying it so you could dodge; health is a resource and sometimes trading some health to gain a little time is worth it, but be careful of attacks that can send you flying or crowd control you. These aspects can be improved only by making a lot of attempts, trying out stuff to see what works, and learning from each failed attempt.
For this abyss… if you have the team comp and the artifacts then its seriously a matter of time. High tide and low tide fuck up runs so many god damn times its horrendously frustrating. Couple that with mob rng deciding they should split up, dumb teleporting nonsense, and random bullshit and you can have very well invested characters that just cant finish the stupid abyss in time unless you try and try again. I gave up on wasting my time this week. I just 6 starred floor 12 this week to save my sanity.