T O P
risen_sun

They are overscored in PCS right now, but do you know whose world record scores they overtook? In the total, Tarasova/Morosov had just broke the record minutes before with an even more egregious mistake on her triple salchow than Mishina’s euler/step out. And for the short program score, they had beat Boikova/Kozlovskii’s score by 0.02 points which was also overscored at Euros 2020. 🤷‍♀️


MargeDalloway

It's completely fair to say that they shouldn't have overtaken Sui/Han's 2019 Worlds FS record. It's the best pairs FS that's been performed under this scoring system, whereas Mishina/Galliamov's FS was a good performance of a difficult, but dull, program. A lot of the elements weren't as high quality, and they were slow across the ice. Sui/Han are a much stronger pair for basically all the components if marked correctly, and it's infuriating to see the judges ignore that because of politics, as much as I respect Moskvina and think M/G are good skaters.


risen_sun

I do agree and did in fact find Euros scoring to be as atrocious as World Team Trophy scoring across the disciplines.


MargeDalloway

I thought the women's event surprisingly had the least bullshit scoring, but was still pretty bad. The corruption in judging has gotten out of hand.


Ok-Fun3446

Every other element in T/M's program was done with the utmost quality and their PCS was only higher by like 0.10 points. I think that's what OP is referring to. T/M are also probably overscored but if the judging was fair, I think T/M should've won with their pristine quality across 2 strong, but not error-free programs


risen_sun

Their PCS overscoring is what I acknowledged right away. And while I would have T/M solidly ahead in skating skills, I can’t say the same for their PE/IN particularly. T/M also had a mistake in their SP which was rewarded with positive GOE so they were helped too. But I definitely agree that T/M have to be completely clean if they want to stand a chance in beating M/G. It’s more likely for pairs to skate clean as compared to singles, and the judges have shown a long time ago that they prefer clean/consistent skating.


Educational_Gap_9804

T/M aren't better than M/G in any PCS aspect but skating skills. In fact I would say they are inferior in all the others. If anything T/M are the ones most overscored in PCS.


Educational_Gap_9804

No T/M are emotionless bots. Basically a newer version of Totmianina & Marinin without the consistency, and probably weaker choreography. Their PCS if anything are too high since they are Russian fed favorites. Skating skills they are superior to M&G, but they are inferior in all other PCS aspects.


HopeOfAkira

Putting all of the talk about components to the side? Their 3S-Eu-3S combination pass should never be credited in the first place, given that Mishina's Euler isn't an Euler at all. Galliamov does 3S-Eu-3S, while Mishina does 3S-stepout-3S, and then they have judges giving them +2s and +3s in GOE for it anyway. It's even more egregious when you see them do it side-by-side, because Galliamov's Euler is actually one of the better ones being done.


alunajstruggles

And even if they count it as an Euler, it still should receive negative GOE, because it’s the ugliest Euler I’ve ever seen in my life.


HopeOfAkira

Negative GOE and a << for under-rotation, while we're at it. I'm not sure if that's even possible to give an Euler, but if anyone merits it, it's her.


klein_four_group

Even more negative GOE for lack of synchronization.


HopeOfAkira

And now we're basically at -5 for the entire combination before even considering the two jumps her "Euler" is connecting.


Simple_Check_6809

I feel like if you put M/G's program to the OGM winning free skate with Bruno and Aljona... It's not even in the same league.


UtopianMatrix

What about Volosozhar/Trankov's OGM free skate program to Jesus Christ Superstar? A bigger travesty if you ask me ....


Wuzrobbed

Stobolva/Klimov adams family program was ROBBED.


pairsstan

Nah that program was still an Olympic moment because of their speed and connection


calliopecalliope

Thanks for giving me an opportunity to gush over Galliamov - he is by far my favorite Russian skater right now (considering Kolyada and Aliev are head cases) and I will say it, I think he is one of the best male pair skaters i have ever seen in that he is both a beautiful skater and can still do the heavy lifting stuff that's part of the job. He is seriously under-appreciated IMO. Mishina is good but not that much of a stand out compared to the great female pair skaters who are usually the ones who get most of the attention. Han Kong (of Sui and Han) is underrated too but would put Galliamov a little ahead because Han is pretty small. He does an amazing amount with 'less' but its still a bit of a disadvantage. I do think Sui & Han are overall a greater team but in recent years injuries have taken their toll and you never know in China if politics are an issue.


haveaniceday624

I love him, too! I can tell he is such a solid partner, and his basic skills are gorgeous. Unlike some pairs you can really see the respect they have for each other.


UtopianMatrix

My favorite male pair skater is Anton Sikharulidze. If somehow Moskina can turn M/G into a new Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze, I will be a very happy camper.


marchmain-13

I love these two as personalities - unproblematic duo who seem to have a lot of respect for each other and the sport. And in my opinion, Galliamov is the best male pair skater currently competing. The FP does not showcase any of their strengths however. It really exposes how slow their transitions are coming in and out of lifts, and the music doesn't elevate them at all. It takes their fun, boisterous energy and turns it into something a little pantomime-y.


pairsstan

Han Cong exists too erm


marchmain-13

As do opinions


MargeDalloway

And this person is giving theirs. In a slightly abrasive manner sure, but it's still their opinion.


natryoshka

People are allowed to have personal favourites))


pairsstan

Lmao ok but how is someone who has been in seniors for like 2 seasons better than Han who is a multiple world champion and Olympian, who works at a far bigger disadvantage to skate with Sui because of his proportions, yet makes it work because he is that. good. He also has the best skating skills in pairs, and that’s an objective fact, not a matter of opinion lol…. and he has actual chemistry with Wenjing unlike Alexander who literally looks like he hates Anastasia (understandably)


lol8lo

> unlike Alexander who literally looks like he hates Anastasia (understandably) What is this BS?!? S/H deserve all the praise, but Anastasia has done NOTHING to deserve hate personally.


Ottawa_points

I can't with that poster's posts...but that was just such a next level bizarre thing to post. He looks at her like he hates her and understandably so? WTF? (to both parts of this sentence)


natryoshka

Again… people are allowed to have their own opinions. I disagree with your ‘facts’ and I am allowed to do that, same as I won’t argue you are entitled to yours, absolutely no need to get snarky, it’s just a matter of personal preference. And not to mention, longevity does not mean a better skater can’t come and overtake in terms of skill and world standing. Alina was only one senior season before overtaking Zhenya in terms of scoring and it would be wrong to argue she didn’t deserve it because of her age or how many seasons she’s had. Not to mention, that letter half of your comment is very rude towards Nastya. Perhaps you can come to grips with the concept that you can support and love skaters without needlessly tearing others down or just being plain rude. just my opinion tho!))


pairsstan

Not sure what was “tearing others down” by literally saying what about Han Cong, I didn’t insult the guy lmao but he isn’t anywhere near the same level. I’m allowed to have my own opinion too yet you’re all crying 😭 You can like him more cause he’s better looking or whatever (y’all are so transparent lmao) but again, it is a fact (btw what’s with the scare quotes lol) that Han has superior ss and core strength


natryoshka

Girl… you’re v salty in all your comments. I’m gonna repeat myself a third time - you are entitled to your own opinion, and we are all entitled to our individual opinions. That’s it. And if you don’t understand what you said was rude, reread your comment please. (Whatever weird vague dig at Nastya you tried lmao). Not to mention, the tired cliche of ‘that girl only likes that athlete because they’re hot’. Like… it’s 2022 my guy, perhaps you could understand the fact that maybe, just maybe, I’m allowed to simply prefer their style, programmes, enthusiasm and skating without it having to do with their appearance. Bye.


natryoshka

And again, you are simply repeating opinions and stating them as fact. There is no fact here, just your own biases. So don’t go insisting that Han is better and that’s it full stop, because that’s just your own subjective view. I’m simply stating I prefer BOTH Mishina and Galliamov - do you think I have the hots for her too and that why I like them? Okay? Cool.


Vanderwaals_

Your opinions are not facts, sweetie.


azagitova

Galliamov is the current second best male pair skater after Han. I watched the Europeans with German commentary with Aljona Savchenko and after their skate she just couldn’t stop praising Galliamov. She even said that, if she were still skating, she’d want to partner with him. They skate with an ease, every element look easy and you don’t see a struggle like B/K, P/J or T/M, even though they have much more difficult elements and transitions. They’re also fast but controlled. They also have very suiting programs even if I hate their FS. Both programs show their strengths. They’re also super consistent with their difficult content and that should be awarded. PCS is not only about how elegant they skate. I disagree with you about B/K, Kozlovski deserves the lowest PCS in this group. Even B/K or P/J skates clean, they struggle with at least 1-2 elements in the program and at the end it never has that wow factor that M/G has. They started with very very low PCS and improved themselves soooo much over the time, I think they deserve everything.


MargeDalloway

They are not fast, that is just not true. They were visibly the slowest of the podium teams at the European Championships.


pairsstan

People will start screaming at you that them being slow is an opinion not a #fact watch out lol


MargeDalloway

Wheeling out a whiteboard with Einstein's full theory of relativity written on it to explain why M/G deserve a 9.75 in skating skills.


castle_on_a_cloud

"They're also super consistent with their difficult content and that should be awarded" Am I seriously the only one who thinks skaters should not be awarded for "consistency" but for what they do in that particular competition? Your reward for successfully doing a difficult element is the BV+GOE of that element, and that should be enough. It should have no effect on your PCS because those measure (or are supposed to measure) entirely different things.


half-agony-half-hope

Thank you! This is what drives me the most crazy in judging.


changiairport

And fan justifications too. The way we've convinced ourselves to use that reasoning to accept questionable PCS for some skaters...


calliopecalliope

> They started with very very low PCS Before M/G moved to Moskivina his skating was beautiful but he had zero expression. It is amazing how quickly that changed when they went to her. Their current FS is growing on me but is not great. Moskivina once in awhile has dumb ideas and seems to double down and refuse to change them (look for her Strauss waltz program for Kavaguti and Smirnov). That strange 'statue pose' at the end seems like one of her occasional dumb ideas that nobody seems to like but she insists on sticking with. B/K are a decent team who have benefited a lot from Moskivina's 'magic'. I do feel a bit sorry for them to be overshadowed by the newer training mates but they definitely are not as good.


cherylvandertunt

I think the last pose is all about showing off just how strong Galliamov is. Which it really does.


calliopecalliope

A lot of male pair skaters are strong, that's not what's most special about him.


cherylvandertunt

Not saying it is, but many mens Pairs skaters would really struggle to do that at the end of a free skate (many can barely stand at the end lol)


quadeuler

i agree!! firstly they are really good skaters and a good team, obviously, but they’re being scored as if theyre the best and they simply are not. their pcs is far worse than sui/han. in terms of ss they are far worse than t/m. in terms of pe they are far worse than b/k and p/j. even though they have good transitions, they honestly make no musical sense in the fs. their throws are good but everything else is mediocre in comparison to the other top teams. in terms of the twist, tm and sh are better, bk too. in terms of lifts, literally every other team is better with better positions, musical placement, ice coverage (though mg’s group 3 lift is really cool). yes, unlike these other teams they are consistent, but consistency isn’t a pcs mark nor a goe bullet. i liked them a lot last season but this egregious overscoring is just not it. also i despise their fs this season. it does not suit them whatsoever and it’s honestly kind of barring me from enjoying them. these two shine in fun programs so why is their olympic free skate a lyrical/romantic piece that they cannot interpret?? tm should be beating them if they go clean, even if tm aren’t the best performers the sheer quality of their elements and basic skating is far greater than mg’s. meanwhile bk may struggle with consistency and neither have great ss but they make up for it in terms of performance quality and chemistry, neither of which mg is showing in their recent skates.


Vanderwaals_

M/G are my favorite pair right now, their PCS are high but I think they should be above T/M. T/M did mistakes and they got a very high score, so it's logic that if M/G were clean they need to give them a even higher score. I agree than T/M have better SS but in the rest of items of the PCS I like M/G much more. But , I would love to see S/H as the future Olympic champions. I think they are talented and this is probably their last chance and I'm rooting for them. But if M/G win I will be happy too.


cherylvandertunt

M/G have improved SO MUCH over the past couple of years. They are doing some difficult, high quality and pretty innovative stuff in a well presented manner. I really would love S/H to win, but if M/G skate clean they would also deserve to win. I really hope the judging is fair. S/H's silver last time was overshadowed by some obvious overscoring from a Chinese judge (which was pointless anyway). I wouldn't want that for any team that skated well and deserved to win. As for world records, they are just meaningless anyway. Sometimes it's like the judges and technical people just aren't even looking. They just see a name and judge by reputation. It's not objective different judges with biases and subjective opinions (even choice of music that a judge doesn't like can affect scoring)- it can't ever be fair. The same skaters can perform way better at one event but set a new record with a worse skate somewhere else.


Educational_Gap_9804

Consistency always leads to elevation in scores. They have been super consistent, so it is predictable.


aromaticchicken

I mean.... they are very talented. That plus #skatingwhileRussian = ridiculous scores compared to the rest of the field. It's been like that for like the last 4+ decades of this sport? lol


mintardent

I hate the russian over scoring it’s and it’s literally so blatant yet like no one acknowledges


alexallatt

Where was the stumble? I don’t remember seeing one


pairsstan

I literally cannot with them they are so slow and mismatched and it’s gotten worse as they age into seniors 🥴 if Rusfed wants a more believable pair to push with inflated scores they should give Daria Pavliuchenko a few edge classes and teach her to point her toes and put her with Alexander lol