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ceramicunicorn

omfg I LOVE this episode. And it *does* dovetail with dating. What especially resonates is rule 3, that women who self-advocate are exclusionary and selfish. I had this happen. I might make this its own post. I had a man suggest a coffee date. I loathed these even before FDS. They do not work for me. They feel business-like, like interviews. There is no romance to them (unless it is a place where drinks can also be had- you go and have that 8pm coffee, I’ll be opting for cabarnet). I declined, and said that dinner/an activity/drinks and appetizer (I know, I know, but a one drink first date with snack works for me) would be more appropriate. His response was something along the lines of implying that I am greedy and selfish. If I had known of these rules (we all intuit them, but I mean in terms of having them laid out so clearly), here’s where my mind would have been went. I will use an abridged version of (I keep it short with men as they don’t mentally take in paragraphs well) as a copy paste rote response- to save on labor- right before I block and delete in the future (feel free to extract concepts for your own purposes- for dates, on other dating subreddits where the idea of investing comes up repeatedly, etc.): “If you don’t like my suggestion, you can simply say No, thank you, that does not work for me. That you don’t have that kind of money, don’t want to spend that kind of money, or don’t think I am worth that kind of money. That’s acceptable, and then the deal is simply off because we don’t date compatibility. Gaslighting by saying “no man would do that” is simply not true, because I and others have dated them, and know they exist. They simply have a higher level of desire to have romantic access to women, and that is what works for me. There is no reason to attribute fault to the woman, for self-advocating. To do so is an example of the third rule of misogyny- that women who self-advocate are exclusionary and selfish. You advocated for a low-commitment coffee date, that will take you 10 minutes (and me over an hour) to get ready for, because it benefits you. I did no differently, I countered by advocating for type of date that benefits *me*. If you thought a sexual encounter with me was at all possible- which (though the strategy is to pretend it doesn’t) has a much higher value than a $20 dinner (and what woman is spending hours a week getting excited over videos from foodpornhub.com?)- you would not hesitate to guiltlessly advocate for one, and would feel no level of obligation to me nor stress about fairness, if I offered this valuable gift freely. This is a very matter of fact negotiation. There is no need to throw resentment into it. Resenting women for stepping up and doing what you’ve been doing your whole life- self-advocating- says more about you than them.” Ladies, please do not settle for less than you want. You do not *need* to be with a man. Anything less but a good start will be more trouble than it is worth, down the road.


Junior-Lion7893

The part where the ladies talk about setting boundaries by saying no is true. I’ve yet to meet a guy to understand and not make a piss about things when he hears the word no lol


NotMyRealName814

You can tell so much about a man, any man, by how he reacts when a woman tells him "no" even if it's something like no, you don't need help carrying a bulky package.


Easy-Cardiologist889

Amazingly enough and believe it or not some men were just trying to be gentlemanly. I know, it’s so old fashioned. (Sometimes CLASS never goes out of style!)


valleycupcake

Ugh. So many times with my ex I said no and he turned it into a yes. He never outright forced me, but got pouty or mean or just relentless and it was less hassle to just do it. Until we’re at it for a half hour and he still can’t finish because I’m not his hand and a porno. Hard not to feel deep shame for how little regard I gave myself.


Gorilla_girl17

I totally get this. The guilt trips and actual anger that I didn’t want to have sex with him and how that made HIM feel…even pouted and told me when I would cave that he didn’t want to anymore because how dare I make him feel rapey. The mental gymnastics this clown went through to make himself the victim…


1Here4Bach

The part where Rue said liberal feminism feels like a sales pitch is spot on. I was a liberal feminist before FDS and I constantly felt conflicted because I would have to walk back on pro-women ideology to make it digestible for men. When we water down our needs as women to cater to the male ego and protect male feelings it HURTS US. We shouldn’t be compromising on what we fundamentally need as women to thrive in this world.


shibaac

\#12 speaks to me the most: 12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry. Basically: Speaking negatively about our experience with men means we immediately hate men. THIS! If a man is saying oh you just hate men when you're calling out misogynists, just proves they are also a misogynist. And the fact that women all over the world are experiencing the SAME discrimination from men proves misogyny is real and we are allowed to point it out. The HVM in my life don't get defensive about this! They agree and hear me out. They do not get defensive.


Odd_Commission809

Agreed. Would you say in general though, that HVM don’t get defensive when it comes to you saying boundaries + genuinely/gently talking about your needs, desires and issues with them in a partnership?


secularwitch

I llllooove this episode. My only complaint is that I wish 2nd part was available for everyone because this type of content needs to be reached by as many as possible. So important, so vital and yet so unacknowledged.


Muffcakelord

I agree but that's also why i love them for baiting in people to their patreon by doing things like this. Their lowest monthly subscription is super cheap and pretty much anyone can afford it - in turn FDS will be able to grow tremendously and hopefully reach a lot more women!


[deleted]

Who runs the podcast? Haven’t listened to it yet but considering it :)


Rosee-lil-feet

Awesome episode ! I’m obsessed with the podcast


Noemie_Mathilde

Loved this ep, literally spat out my tea when I heard "the bar is in Hades' arse".🤣


a-dizzle-dizzle

I'm new to FDS (boy I wish I had known about it when I was still in the dating pool), but I absolutely love the content here. I had no idea there was a podcast and now I'm so excited for my drive today because I know EXACTLY what I'm listening to.


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