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Background-Ad7732

I just don’t like the reuse of Demi gods because they’re supposed to be unique characters


tacbacon10101

That’s fair


-Silky_Johnson

Also they could have made minor adjustments to make godefroy more unique like a greatsword instead of an axe or 4 smaller axes like a general grievous. His moveset could have been slightly different as wel


Karthull

Make him better at grafting than godrick. All those arms on the back? They’ve all got bows. Put 4 torsos of sorcerers on his back to sling spells while he attacks, he’s got the room for it.


Enygmaz

When he gets to half health, make him flail about like the marionettes


Re7kc

Delete that


SpunkyMcButtlove

~~Godefroy~~ Spazmatron 5000


Karthull

Perfect.


mtj004

Fromsoft hire this guy right now!


markhachman

Man, he was tough enough as it is!


DanJerousJ

In my first playthrough it took me three hours to beat margit, immediately went and fought godrick, and won in two tries


memeulusmaximus

I body slammed tf out of Godrick my first attempt after being bent over a barrel by Margit for 4 hours. Margit is the true Elden Lord imo


Jounniy

That’s cause they work differently. Depending on your playstyle, some are easier/Harder.


Grasher312

Honestly Godrick could've been a menace if he actually used all those hands. Man has a bazillion hands and uses two, and then one. Fit a staff in them and make him rain magic on you.


m3ndz4

Change his weapons up, change his helmet, flip-mirror him would have been decent enough. Was really hoping to see a different and unique grafted abomination.


seelcudoom

Also give him a bit more lore, like establish him as being Godfrey's body double who stayed and continued to fight so Godfrey could flee like a coward, which would explain why he's the stronger of the two


GroriousStanreyWoo

He's godfreys predecessor. He is who inspired the grafting. There is lore. Its not great but its there.


mrbigpimpin1095

Are you guys meaning to say Godrick? Godfrey is the first elden lord. Godrick is the grafted fella.


AlYourBaseBelongToUs

From the context they are probably talking about Godefroy, the reused Godrick fight that you find in the Evergaol on the Altus Plateau. The names are kind of similar and it is fairly easy to mix them up.


mrbigpimpin1095

That makes sense. So Godefroy is the original grafter and came before Godrick? If you look at seelcudoom’s comment it really seems like they’re meaning to say Godrick since they refer to him as a coward. I don’t know if anything mentions Godefroy being a coward.


Ashen_Shroom

There is lore, but it isn't that. The game never says whether he came before or after Godrick, all it says is that he was involved in the first defense of Leyndell and was captured by Kristoff. Since Godrick had a throne in Leyndell before the Shattering broke out and Godefroy didn't, I personally would say that Godefroy is younger than Godrick, and was possibly one of the first subjects of Godrick's grafting experiments. The Grafted Scions are also implied to be younger members of the Golden Lineage, so Godefroy may just be a Grafted Scion that grew up.


TheBirthing

Is this the actual lore?


seelcudoom

No , only the captured part is canon but why he was attacking who beat him when it happened ect is all speculation


Familiar_Tart7390

We actually know this ! Godefrey was captured by Kristoff in the attack on leyndell we see in one of the trailer cinematics. The troops are wearing the beast & tree surcoat we see on Godrick’s troops.


ArnoCatalan

A cool idea but I think the point of reusing him is because of labor and time constraints. I’m sure fromsoft would love to make every boss in the game truly unique if they really could.


surprisesnek

It's kinda neat how you managed to use a picture of the one single boss in the game that shouldn't have been reused.


discr337-0311

Haha truth to the max..if anything got lazy it was definitely that battle and model.


Jounniy

This. Maybe godefroy is a similar character, but then make him SIMILAR(!) not just a phase 1 godrick with more HP and Damage.


ArnoCatalan

Agreed. Most of the lesser bosses, sure. But godrick and Astel? C’mon


zer1223

You didn't like Godefroy the Inexplicably Also Grafted?


Trectorz

Agreed I shouldn't see two mohgs in the game like what? 2 astels????(at least be unique) even the ghost of Godfrey was kinda weird.


Jesus122801

The first mohg is like Margit I’m pretty sure and is like a trap


Trectorz

Yeah but no special dialouge pr anything. Margit was special for a reason.


Jesus122801

Mohg was there to guard the frenzied flame that was the traps purpose


Trectorz

Okay now I'm intrigued, what does mohg have to do with the frenzied flame?


Jesus122801

I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that he found it while wandering around the sewer and then set up the trap to guard people from having access to it that’s why he’s set up where he is


Stephen_Q_Seagull

Mohg blocked the frenzied flame because he's evil. Yes Morgott is also evil for the same reason. MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!


Trectorz

Okay (sry if I'm asking too much now I'm really curious) why does mohg " lord of blood " care about guarding the frenzied flames? was he told? does he care about it? Like I'm comparing this to his main boss fight like margit being a precursor as he wanted to test the tarnished. These two mohgs don't seem to relate in purpose unless I'm wrong.


Confident-Welder-266

The Flame of Frenzy burning down the Lands Between and the world beyond is everyones problem. Mohg’s dynasty would die if the flame were to be unleashes


Trectorz

True in concept, the flame will burn everything and there should be a guard I can make the connection that mohg is an opener therefore sent to waste in the sewers may have happened upon it and decided that " ah this is a problem". I guess the game didn't make it meaningful like how margit fought with an entire cutscene and basically telling you to f off you weak bitch on for you to get to the capital and he takes the gloves off. Mohg appearing in the sewers is like oh hey Mr blood man why are you here? No dialouge between him and the tarnished then to fight him in the blood land talking about his dynasty like it works but there's no substance here. Sorry just a bunch of questions. Final one though, based on okay it would affect moghs plan for his dynasty. Isn't the flame of frenzy EVERYONE's problem? Like why is the crazy bloodman the only one to care about this thing and actively guard it? Why not Morgot in this case? (Probably all the omens took a moment to guard the area is a solution but I'm just searching for answers)


misterblanket

The Mohg in the sewer is just an illusion placed there by Morgott. That's why he's immune to all status effects. They should have probably given him a golden shade like Godfrey to make that obvious.


Trectorz

Ahhh so it was morgots idea alright now I'm on board. Like the idea of mogh caring about the flame so much that he made the decision to be the last line of defense bothered me immensely. the fight just bothered me from an enemy placement standpoint.


Powersdevision

The 2 Mohgs made sense as thats the 'Marggit' version The Astels are a race and the snowfield one is stronger so its barrable Godefroy is just worse Godfrey, he sucks.


lordbub

isn't godefroy more like godrick, who modeled his grafting techniques after godefroy?


Detective-E

There's like 6 astels in this game though. They're not meant to be unique.


Trectorz

Yeah but 4 of those were stationary and shot meteors at you. Like if you fought him for real one then mabye the second one was a n awakened version it would've been cool like " like oh I've fought something like this but this one's different..." Compared to "there's two and one just had a fancier grab attack. " Like compare it to the big ghost deer(forgetting the name) purely unique fights with their own music and the second time you fight it, it pulls out a bunch of new tricks to kill your ass and adds several lore implications (draining the souls of the surrounding wildlife ).


AngryChihua

I think that there being more than one fully grown astel makes it more terrifying because of the realisation that it's an entire species of them and this is a normal stage in their lifecycle, not something unique.


Trectorz

Sorta agree since it make it out to be like this is just space nonsense and "there's more of them" from a lore stand point but I feel like I'm coming from a gameplay stand point as one astel had build up while the other just sort of exist. It falls in line with why I hate how's there's two moghs. One is set up with a huge line of absurd regions and biomes that are breathtaking while the latter are just sorta like "oh its boss time" but there could totally be something else here vibes.


AngryChihua

Second astel at least has creepy cave woth frozen mad miners and onyx lord unlike mohg. Although i wish the cave was longer and even more eldritch horrory


LobsterCorgi2149

Disrespecting Godefroy is a cardinal sin. Godefroy The Grafted is a well fleshed out and interesting character in such a lackluster game such as Elden Ring. Unlike most other demigods Godefroy has a clear and interesting personality. His moveset is completely enjoyable and while you say he is a "re-used boss" I still took 16 hours to beat him. Mayhaps you do not understand the deep lore implications that Godefroy adds to the Golden Lineage, but I, an intellectual do'ost. I suggest you delete your post as to not deal with the embarrassment of my downvote, and I suggest you do better next time before stating your objectively false opinion.


JayDee_McFly

All that for a drop of blood.


Ancient_Prize9077

If they were going to reside a demigod I wish it was another god devouring serpent so we have more than just one area we can use it at 😂


m4rkoh

That's fair. People mostly complain about reused assets for enemies that aren't unique - like the Night Cavalries and Stone Watchdog things.


CrystlBluePersuasion

I think this is the biggest complaint about reused fights, literally Godefroy lol. I liked fighting him 'again' but did think it wasn't a special fight. The rest of the reused assets are reinforcing themes or even practice/showcasing your power level. Plus it's practical when the game is huge, as the OP said.


SalisburyJohnof

I agree but you can't just slap another name on Godrick and pretend he's a different character. That's stupid.


M_a_n_d_M

I would like to imagine it’s actually the same person and Godrick genuinely thought he was fooling people.


Jesh1337

I'm going with this one


greninjack24

“G- Godrick? Is that you?” “No, no. I’m…..uuhhhh….. GADRICK- Godricks younger brother!”


Uncynical_Diogenes

“I AM THE LORD OF ALL THAT IS…. Uhh…. SILVER! That’s me, GADRICK!”


kid-with-a-beard

And Godrick has another brother named Gudrick, The Copper


stupidratman

**Puts on fake mustache**


guylfe

Big Ezekiel vibes from this one. Careful not to get yourself powerbombed on the apron.


Hirkus

Its not like anyone else is doing that ***cough*** Renna and Margit ***cough***


M_a_n_d_M

Yeah, except they do it semi successfully. Godrick does it ass backwards. Which makes sense, given all the grafting, he probably has a hard time telling where his actual ass is.


Hirkus

just graft another ass, duh


xAntimonyx

Should have given him a moustache. That'd really separate the men from the boys.


tacbacon10101

Me and my buddies were laughing because we thought it was a typo lol. But i believe its actually supposed to be his father who started the whole grafting thing


SalisburyJohnof

Yes I understand the lore and tbh I kind of enjoy having two goes at Godrick in a playthrough, but even if they were identical twins in lore, they've surely grafted different limbs onto themselves. It just makes no sense that it's literally Godrick under a new name.


gmstgadg

I thought it was a type too when I first fought him, and thought it was really strange that it was literally just phase I godrick


timestalker78

Depends on how they're re-used, I'd say. I think Godefroy is a lazy re-skin, for example, that has no reason to exist.


Icy_Limes

not even a reskin. it's the exact same model.


Dag-nabbitt

Reskins have the same model but a different skin (texture).


Crazyjackson13

He exists purely for a bit of plot.


GoldenSpermShower

I wouldn't even call it plot, it's only in 1 item description and it just says 'this guy fought defeated him here's your lore bye'


swagsta

I took Godefroy as a way for the game to show you how far you’ve come. At first I was like “oh shit it’s Godrick again” but then once I started fighting I was like oh nvm I got this! I wasn’t overleveled, but my skills were so much sharper


Chikageee

I feel like Margit is enough to prove this point though.


joybuzz

That's Margit's role.


GivePen

Just like how Asylum Demon in DS1 and Iudex Gundyr in DS3 both have optional reskins you can fight later. It’s to mark your progress.


FMW_Level_Designer

Yeah but it was done BETTER in both those examples. It's established there are many demons in Dark Souls, having more of them is fine. Gundyr appears in a darkness version of Firelink, so it kinda fit. (Though WHY there is a dark version of Firelink Shrine just beneath the Castle is weird. What is the lore on that?


irishgoblin

IIRC, the supposed lore of the dark firelink is that Iudex was supposed to link thw flame, but arrived too late and his Fire Keeper was already dead. Someone (think it's implied to be Ludleth?) linked the flame, but rather than the full reset it wasa soft reset that segues into the Ashen One's cycle. Lore is supposed cause it's unclear if it's actually a past version or just an alternate timeline. End of the world is dragging notable locations and events together to try to get someone to link the flame, hence why you can see a 2d sprite representing Drang Leic and Anor Londo from Gael's arena.


Elbjornbjorn

But gaels arena is in the (grim darkness of the) far future, so drangleic and anor London being there makes sense


Vergils_Lost

Amusingly, I think the issue is the opposite for Godefroy. He has too MUCH lore to be a reskin, since he's got a separate name and backstory, and it doesn't make sense for him to look the same. If he'd been named something like Grafted Shade or Remnant of the Grafting, nobody would've thought twice.


mis-white-lines

I feel like you could have used a different example other than Godfroy because almost everyone unanimously agrees that he's a bad re-skin. If we're talking about Erdtree Avatars, Fallingstar Beasts, or dragons, then I'd agree with you. Reusing assets isn't necessarily bad, but it's how you reuse them to make them feel fresh and nuanced. Besides, From has always been historically praised for how well they tend to reuse their assets.


Boshwa

Well clearly they didn't reuse their assets well this time


Hamzanovic

This is a bad opinion. If the length and scale of the game will cause you to re-use assets this aggressively to the point that you will copy-paste a main story boss and change his name to something else, then making your game this big and long was probably not a well though out and planned decision. Elden Ring is an incredible game but some of this asset flipping really diminishes a lot of its brilliance and impact, and this for me is a good argument for where the non-open world Souls games are superior. They are shorter games but the content in them is much more unique, consistent and impactful.


L9XGH4F7

Elden Ring needed to be like 30% shorter and it would've been a better game. The snowfields felt pointless. Should've just been a straight shot to the fire giant. And not every optional dungeon needed a boss. They also should've made the open world much more treacherous, because I never felt threatened while riding around on Torrent, and there were grace points everywhere.


M_a_n_d_M

As long as Elden Ring WHAT, mfer?! Finish your sentence!


Sludgegaze

Every elden has its ring


No_Repeat_229

Every elden has


business_panda5000

Let there be Elden Ring!


EasyRecognition

It's "similar in length to Elden Ring".


tacbacon10101

LOL


Sister-Friedes-Feet

Godefroy and Astel in the snowfield are the only really bad examples imo. Otherwise it doesn’t matter that much.


FuckBoiWhoDoesntFuck

I wouldn’t even say Astel is that bad either as we know there are others like the ones in the underground caves


lemongrass9000

the 2nd astel is a godsend for me coz rannis questline can get annoying to do every playthrough but i love the astel fight so much and dont wanna miss it. so I do the consecrated skip from mountaintops and run directly to the 2nd astel just to fight him on my way to malenia


Zzen220

The problem is that he's just called Astel with a different subcaption lol, like he got demoted to mine guard.


sayonara49

Well it makes sense considering Astel is a species not a single being


GoldenSpermShower

Sure it makes sense but it makes the first encounter less special especially since the second's arena is just a dinky little cave


flinnja

the first arena is basically identical to two other boss fights (both of which also reuse assets)


GoldenSpermShower

> the first arena is basically identical to two other boss fights At least there are cool stars and weird drippy slime things I also think the Ancestor Spirits are less egregious than Astel, especially since only the second one gives the remembrance and aren't the climatic fight of the longest NPC questline and you don't just stumble into a cave to fight it


thegr8pumaman

Plus the fact that the first Astel is basically the end boss to a quest all about stars, and you have to trek through several levels of caves, wrecked cities, and one of the most breathtaking (yet unfun) areas in the game just to get down to him. And on the way, you go through several unique enemies to those areas, including what are essentially Astel cocoons. Then there's second Astel, who's just kinda... in a cave. Of no special importance, no unique enemies or Astel cocoons. Really no build up to him at all, he's just there.


Draceptor

The Consecrated Snowfields really is just a lot of stuff just put together. On the opposite side lies a cave with a legendary weapon and a magma wyrm. There’s also a pair of Night’s Cavalries with a death rite bird. The end of Latenna’s little quest and portals to 2 different areas are also there. There’s just so much random miscellaneous stuff. I suppose there’s some sense to all the madness as it’s mostly inhabited by broken and tortured beings.


Silent_Force

Seeing the first ancestor spirit was amazing. The repeat really felt disappointing but at least the music is nice.


Ashen_Shroom

Astel is a single being. The item descriptions mentioning him only ever use it as a name, to refer to the one that destroyed an Eternal City. He's in two places because that seems to happen a lot in Elden Ring. The non-boss versions are the same species, but they're not Astel.


Siofra_Surfer

Astel is not the name of the species, the species is called Malformed Star Everything in the inten descriptions points to Astel being a singular being


[deleted]

Every mention of Astel in item descriptions treats it as the name of that single being, not as the name of a species, so...


FuckBoiWhoDoesntFuck

And to mention the Stars of Darkness does actually get a special multi head grab attack that the Naturalborn doesn’t get is noteworthy too. Astel isn’t the worst case issue while Godefroy totally is


[deleted]

[удалено]


antungong

Why is Astel a problem, its an animal and you already see multiples of them like Malformed Star which I believe is the same size and through hacking are shown to have the same moveset, when they don't hang. The fallingstar beasts are also similar as they have the exact same skull with the eyeball, also shown with hacking.


Sister-Friedes-Feet

Naturalborn of the Void caps off the biggest NPC quest in the game and has story significance being near Nokron. Stars of Darkness is in a random cave far away from any Eternal City simply because they needed a boss at the end of it. Imagine getting through a cave and all of a sudden “Captain” Radahn starts fighting you. It just feels unnatural, like that one Misbegotten Warrior with the Golden Order Greatsword in the same snow area. Why is it there? Because the cave needed a boss.


JelloJamble

I think the leonine misbegotten are actually explained in the lore as seeking out powerful weapons, and that's why the Ruins Greatsword, the Grafted Greatsword, and the Golden Order Greatsword are all recieved from leonine misbegotten that found them first. Feels like an explanation written as an excuse, but it is at least explained.


Terraakaa

Bosses that has cutscenes, god forbid DIALOGUES absolutely shouldn’t be reskin Reusing can be *acceptable* in the case of Margit, Loretta, Godfrey, Maliketh & Mogh, since they’re the same character, reskin is inexcusable, Godefroy is an embarrassment.


TheCatAteItsOwnBalls

Godefroy is fucking stupid. If they didn't have the assets to make a huge ass map feel populated, just squeeze the map down a little bit. Same with the dragon bosses.


asnakeaday6789

I feel like naming him such a low effort rename.. Godefroy.. means they probably knew this was a low effort copy paste. Or maybe we’re missing something? What if this is a magical copy of Godfrey that got locked in the evergoal? I know Godefroy technically has lore, but he is also the colors of glinstone. There has to be more to it


Ashen_Shroom

I think the name is fine- it fits the naming scheme of the rest of the Golden Lineage- it's just weird that there are two members of the Lineage who practiced grafting, had the exact same face, and chose the exact same limbs to attach to themselves. The colour doesn't mean anything- that's the same effect that's implied to all Evergaol bosses.


EvieAsPi

I do feel like the Godric clone was kinda lame because he's likely most people's first demigod boss so didn't like the damage to his uniqueness, but I can say this is the only case in this game I felt this way. Do not care about duplicates. What giant open world game doesn't have them? Even the regular souls games, which are far shorter, have enemies repeated.


ARussianW0lf

>Even the regular souls games, which are far shorter, have enemies repeated. Which is something thats always been criticized. Elden Ring just turned it up to 11 and its completely absurd at this point


HentaiOujiSan

Counter arguement, if Elden Ring, was half the size, and all you cut was the duplicate boss fights,the game would be much better. content for content sake is not good game design.


Vegeta1994

The 20 odd erdtree avatars and dragons with almost identical movesets were a huge let down for me


man_o_madan

The best dragon fight in the game was Placidusax, the unique one


Elusive-Reality

Fortissax was pretty great too, not as unique though


Ok_Equivalent_4296

Which one just wiped the floor with me at the Altus plateau after going through the cavern route and killing the wyrm thing?


Davcidman

That's Lansseax


Ok_Equivalent_4296

He seems pretty...neat


Sobelle109

Lansseax is a she


ARussianW0lf

Spoiler alert There are many more of her and it stops being neat real quick


A-Lowly-Tarnished

Go figure.


break_card

When I saw the first erdtree avatar and realized it was literally stray demon with a different texture I will not lie I was a bit disappointed with fromsoft.


TheGalator

I found them no problem since they are the same species they fight the same. Godrick soldiers with greatswords also have the same moveset every time. Cealid fuckers in the mountains is bad tho


Ok_Equivalent_4296

I keep expecting the erdtree avatars to get harder, but so far it’s the same damn tree. And the move set is memorized now, it’s too easy


whiskerbiscuit2

There are different variants like a Scarlet Rot one in Caelid but he’s not much different


Fskn

I don't really have a problem with it Godefroy is a particularly egregious example though, there's nothing of value in what amounts to a pallette swap


[deleted]

I agree, but I fight him every playthrough while I don't necessarily do that with other bosses. Because Godrick/Godefroy is a really awesome fight but it irks me that they were lazy with his lore.


CarpetPure7924

The only reuse that bothered me was Godefroy. Hell, reusing another smaller boss like, another Crucible Knight, or some other Tarnished dude, would feel better. Godefroy made me feel like I was playing Destiny, it was such a jarring reuse


Vast-Coast-7761

There is something wrong with completely re-using a character model and moveset for a boss who is a different character from the one being copied. Godefroy is a bad re-use. Astel is fine because it’s the same character.


Puzzled_Worker_7861

>Astel is fine because it’s the same character. something can make lore sense and still provide a bad experience. Morgott is great because his kit expands over the fights, the game gives you fair warning that he will return, and you may be able to piece together that margit is morgott. Astel is a boss you've fought before in a random cave he has nothing to do with leaving the end of an otherwise unique dungeon on a low note.


Vast-Coast-7761

There are lore implications of it being in that cave, its presence there supports the theory that it is allied with the Greater Will as it appears to have destroyed Yelough Anix, a place very connected to the Frenzied Flame. It’s presence is also foreshadowed by the presence of Alanaster and/or Onyx lords earlier on, who have a connection to void enemies due to their powers and their origin. Gameplay wise, I appreciate the fight for providing a more challenging fight that’s harder to outlevel. The first time I fought Astel I didn’t get the chance to learn the fight because I could just stumble through it, but the second time I had to actually figure out a strategy.


Puzzled_Worker_7861

The lore doesn't actually matter here. What matters is the sense of discovery. The game encourages so much exploration, but the more you do it, the more repeat fights you encounter. There can be a lore justification for it but that wont make the moment any less disappointing. Perhaps a few repeat fight like Astel could have worked, but at this point in the game the player has likely seen many repeat fights. And I dont think the environment really sells the idea that Astel is here either. Theres nothing really connecting the stone lords to him other than gravity magic, so its not even a sound connection to make. And Yellough Anix looks exactly like any other destroyed town


tacbacon10101

Wait is it confirmed that the 2 Astel’s are the same creature? According to Vaati its just the final stage of a race of creatures, like an astral antlion.


Vast-Coast-7761

The description of the meteorite of Astel confirms that Astel is the name of an individual, not a group or species. Also, lore YouTubers are not always right.


Ok-Nature9693

Lore YouTubers not being right what madness is this


DerpAtOffice

So why is there 2, why 2 titles why is he in those 2 places? How does the description of the meteorite of Astel even confirms it is the same being? It only tells you that guy you just killed leveled the Eternal City.


Vast-Coast-7761

One being can have more than one title. In the second fight with Astel, we see that it is able to create projections/clones of itself. The meteorite of Astel’s descriptiona, the name of wing of Astel, and the description of Bastard’s stars all refer to Astel as an individual, not as a group or species.


tacbacon10101

What about the clear evolutionary line-up from fallingstar beat to pupus to astel? The description on the sorcery doesn’t seem to indicate they aren’t just different animals of the same species with the same powers. Its still totally possible and you’d have to dismiss the other evidence to be dogmatic about it


R_V_Z

The way that I personally interpreted the Astel-esque creatures is the creatures is the crystal skull bit and the body is just rocks held together with gravity manipulation. When they fall from space they take on a body that either suits the environment or are imitating other life they encounter (bulls and insectoids).


AlbrechtE

I love Vaati, but he's been missing the mark on a lot of his Elden Ring stuff, imo. Same with Hawkshaw. He spent too much time early on trying to jam in GRR Martin parallels into everything, so much so that I think people started calling him out and the video he made about it was taken down in a matter of days. Smough Town and Last Protagonist have been putting out better, more focused content so far as far as I can judge. I just think there's more lore in ER than any other Miyazaki/Souls game and some of these guys are trying to put out content quickly. Which is understandable since for guys like Vaati it's a big source of their income.


NO0BSTALKER

Some would say don’t make it that long then


Oraln

Counterpoint: Elden Ring is too dang long.


Mohg_is_a_Crip

Yeah if a game based all around figuring out different movesets has to reuse as much as er does to the point where final zones don’t even have unique enemies, then it doesn’t need to be as long as it is.


[deleted]

I say this as someone who loves the game and has put 200+ hours into it - you're absolutely right. There's like 20-30 hours of content bloat (everything after Leyndell felt like such a slog on my first playthrough, especially Farum Azula). Couple that with unclear and deliberately confusing directions (unless you just wiki everything), and the run time of the game just becomes too dang long.


6spooky9you

Depends on how you play it, there's so much optional content. You can entirely skip all of the underground, all of caelid, all of the volcano manor, all of the snowgrounds, all of the haligtree, all of the Lyndell sewers, and the weeping peninsula. You can get through the main game in under ten hours if you know what path to follow.


alexshatberg

"if you have encyclopedic knowledge of the game you can save a lot of time playing it" is one hell of an argument


BrennusRex

Godefroy in particular was just a super silly reuse. It would be like if in Dark Souls, there was a mini boss named Gwon that was functionally and visually identical to Gwyn and the only lore explanation was “this is Gwyn’s uhhh second cousin I guess.”


Saltwater_Thief

So, reusing assets isn't inherently bad; there are ways to do it well, and Elden Ring even has some of those. Case in point; Erdtree Avatars. They are pretty much the most proliferated boss enemy in the game, but they work because the game forged a link between them and the minor erdtrees so that when you find a minor tree, you can expect to also find an avatar. This works very well, both because it makes the asset reusing more palatable AND because it increases the shock value when you roll up to a minor tree expecting to find one and instead come face to face with Wormface, a UTS, or a Putrid Avatar instead. The key, ultimately, is in the context where the reused asset appears. The two most blatant examples of this being done wrong in ER, in my opinion are Astel and the Godskin Apostle. The former is a major obstacle in Ranni's quest chain and both his aesthetics and mechanics are amazing, but he loses a lot of coolness if after you beat him down to get to the altar (and also get a chance at one of the best Ash Summons in the game, Tishe) he's just randomly chilling in a snow cave up north. The latter is also amazing aesthetically and is jaw-dropping when he crawls out of the shadows at the bottom of the Caelid Tower... and then he's also just hanging out in a random village on the plateau for some reason. It takes away a lot of the impact of their first appearance when their second has no real significance to it, you know?


ARussianW0lf

>and Elden Ring even has some of those. Case in point; Erdtree Avatars Wow I could not disagree more. I think the Erdtree Avatars are the absolute worst example of reuse in the game. Theres 10 of them, a few are randomly not even bosses because reasons. Your argument that they're associated with minor erdtrees isn't even accurate. There a couple minor erdtrees with no Avatar and there are a few Avatars that have nothing to do with a minor erdtree like the 2 in the Haligtree or the one in the Deeproot Depths, or the one wandering the streets of Leyndell And all that pales in comparison to the fact that its not even a new enemy for Elden Ring. The Erdtree Avatar is just a reskin of the Stray Demon from ds3 which was just a reskin of the demon firesage from ds1 which was just a reskin of the stray demon from ds1 which was just a reskin of the Asylum demon from ds1 which was just reskin of the Vanguard demon from Demons Souls. Its the most egregiously lazy reused boss I've ever seen in any game


TheWoefulButtAngler

> 2 in the Halig**tree** or the one in the Deep**root** Depths Who's gunna tell him? I'm not at home, so I cant check right now, but I'm betting theres a minor erdtree stump in leyndell.


justapileofshirts

I'm totally okay with reused bosses if they make sense in the overarching story. But why is Godefroy literally just a copypasta?


Nicokenobeh

I would prefer a smaller game, with less enemy re uses. But idk in my second playtrough im kind of ignoring what i didnt like in my first one


Proper_Medicine_3658

This is the way. Smaller game with less re-used enemies. Now that the hype and novelty are gone, Sekiro is #1 for me, but it feels like ER and DS3 share #2.


InfinitePolygon

Like a lot of people have said, the reskins of godrick and astel are pretty undefendable design choices, but most of them aren't inherently bad, the frustration mostly comes from both the fact that many of the reused bosses are rather annoying in their own right or they get reskinned and put in a room with other enemies, in addition to the fact that the natural progression of the game somewhat forces you to fight at least a few in each area to avoid being underleveled for the next. I do really like that you've titled the post just 'opinion' instead of 'unpopular opinion', feels more fair to both sides.


Commercial-Pause-634

As long as Elden Ring what?


Dorkmaster79

As long as Elden Ring what?


Evanawesome123

All the reskins are lazy. I would rather have 13 good bosses than 100 reused bosses.


[deleted]

While I mostly agree, there’s TOO MANY of the same assets in this game.


Spyger9

Opinion: Elden Ring is too long/big for its own good. They could have made it like 2/3rds the size, keeping just the excellent areas/dungeons and cutting the majority of recycling, and it would *still* be a massive game.


dmack0755

Yea by the time I got to snowfield i was sick of exploring random caves mines and dungeons because it didnt feel rewarding anymore. Just repeat boss fights, and loot I didnt want to use because I already found equipment I really liked.


LordRoryk

Haha I agree except you use the only reused asset that is kinda wonky for me. Astel i can understand, theyre like an alien race. Godskin is an organization, they probably have standard uniform. But Godefroy? While its believable that someone in the past tried grafting like Godrick, but in the same parts/proportions? They could at least frame them as twins.


Zevvion

Of course there is. Unique enemies should never be re-used in a game like this. The lore doesn't even support it. It isn't Nioh. It should stick to unique Great Bosses (demi-gods) and reuse the generalist enemies instead.


Broserk42

In general no but things like dragons and corrupted tree spirits feel really old by endgame.


LazyNam3

Godefroy and Astel are dumb. I don’t mind Night’s Cavalry and Crucible Knights they’re cool Reusing assets too much like with the (not legacy) dungeons is just so pointless and extra padding. They’re almost all identical and the rewards could’ve just been spread elsewhere. Elden Ring is this long because they kept reusing assets where unnecessary Kind of like chalice dungeons if they were less shit and part of the main game I don’t think it affects the game’s quality and honeslty people shit on this game for the dumbest reasons that they wouldn’t have an issue with by any other developer, but it makes me feel less motivated to replay


AdequatlyAdequate

Elden Rings open world actually doesnt work to its advantage IMO, i found exploration to be a dull experience of running into the same bosses and enemies over and over again with some stunning scenery here amd there and the major dungeons arent anywhere close to being as interconnected and complex as the levels in other fromsoft games.


No_Establishment_350

This game is HUGE. I had no clue they put him in an Evergol!


scatmans_world

Elden Ring would change society forever if it didn't have Godefroy as a boss.


DrownedWalk1622

Reusing assets is okay. Although I do not encourage that. However reusing any boss/mini boss is definitely not okay. That is an example of lazy devs.


Lookitsa6ix

I mean, there is like... It highlights just how much time the dev team should have been allowed to work on the game. The first half of the game is flawless, really amazing stuff, but once you get past the Capitol, specifically The Mountaintop and the Haligtree. There's is not one, NOT ONE, new enemy, its all reused creatures from every other part of the map. It felt very much rushed and slapped together.


TendieMyResignation

I feel like Godefroy shouldn’t have been a complete copy paste, at least make the grafts a bit more different, give like one unique/different ability or ash of war, something.


Unimpressiv_GQ_Scrub

I mean I'm a monster hunter player. All we do is refight the same bosses over and over. Why would it bother me here?


ArianRequis

Counter argument the game isn't made to be 100%ed


PuffPuffFayeFaye

I think “reused assets” has become a vague term here. In regards to Elden Ring the term was first used after the initial gameplay trailer when people saw moves and weapons that were clearly brought over from Dark Souls 3. It was “Reused from another game” that got people all worked up and started the criticism. Then we got the game and we saw assets reused within the game for various reasons and with varying degrees of success. Now the term is being applied to reusing assets *within the game* which, as a specific criticism to Elden ring, is ridiculous because ALL of their games since DS1 have done this to varying degrees. Bosses get reskinned, bosses become normal enemies, small mobs become big mobs, fire version/ice version… all games do this to some degree. It’s not a valid criticism in and of itself at all. Mario has to jump on lots of goombas - the goombas are a reused asset - but how they are mixed in with the environment and pacing is what matters. If you can live with 4 Juzuo reskins in tiny little Sekiro you can live with with anything that was reused in Elden Ring. Except Godfrey. That shit is ridiculous.


[deleted]

Opinion: your opinion is dog shit and all you’re doing is settling for extremely lazy game design when all the heavy reuse does is make the entire game feel way, way smaller than it actually is.


GoldenSpermShower

> make the entire game feel way, way smaller than it actually is. Agreed, there are tons of enemies but their distribution is wack, you encounter a vast majority of them by the halfway point


ARussianW0lf

The final 5 endgame-ish areas, of which I'd consider the Haligtree, Consecrated Snowfield, Mtns of Giants, Farum Azula, and Mohgwyn Palace, have like 1 new enemy between them. Thats fucking pathetic.


Dangerous_Airport171

100%, this person is just dismissing one of my only criticisms with the game


thegreatvortigaunt

It's bizarre the amount of shit that fanboys let Fromsoft get away with. There is soooooo much copy-pasting in ER.


[deleted]

FromSoft could shit in their mouths and they’d be stoked to let it happen as long as it was in a pretty enough place.


Nozerone

You're right. With out reusing assets it would take a LOT longer to make a game. Imagine developers having to make every individual tree, bush, flower, blade of grass, rock, wildlife... etc. So yea, asset reuse is needed in video games. Even enemy mobs are a viable route for asset recycling. When it comes to bosses though, even mini-bosses, an asset should be reused sparingly. Godrick being a main boss, then a side boss in an evergoal, cool. Fucking catdog statue being used as a mini-boss in multiple locations and as general dungeon mobs is over use. Now if our first encounter with the catdog statue (yes I know it's called a burial watchdog) had been set up as a forced encounter for a mini-boss, then every encounter later it was used as just a harder than normal dungeon trash with a different mini-boss following, that would be a more acceptable reuse of the asset. Wouldn't be the first time in a game where a beginning "boss" ended up being a normal be it harder enemy later on. ​ Hell, what they could have done is just change the head a bit, and change out weapons/attacks a bit. We would have then had similar, yet different bosses and it would have felt less like they ran out of ideas for that particular dungeon so they just reused something.


Dangerous_Airport171

Also I feel like enemy placement doesn't tell as much of a story in these games as it did in other games, for example the bloodhound fang guy, he's in so many places and I have no clue why, why is he in a cage with goblins and crystal snails?


GoldenSpermShower

Why do Red Wolves of Radagon show up in multiple locations? Wtf are Wormfaces and why do they show up in Farum Azula? Why aren't there any Albinaurics in the Haligtree if Loretta was bringing them there?


TheGalator

Only of they make sense. The caelid creatures in snow field/mountain tops are just like POC in historical netflix shows. Doesn't change the gameplay but destroys the believability of the world it is set in


Dangerous_Airport171

Omg I have this problem with so many areas, like why is the bloodhound boss in so many different areas? Why were there crabs everywhere?


GoldenSpermShower

Crabs are fine, crabs are the ultimate lifeform But I agree that the Caelid crows/dogs being in other locations makes them (and Caelid itself) feel less special...


Slow_Increase_6308

What Caelid creatures?


TheGalator

The big ravens and the nightmare dog-tyrannosaurus


Slow_Increase_6308

Oh, you meant Mountaintops. Gotcha. Yeah, if you think of it , what are they doing there? Interesting question. Maybe there is some lore explanation for this?


TheGalator

There isn't. That's the problem


Mohg_is_a_Crip

I’ve grown to become jaded about “lore explanations” anyway. It could be the most jank writing ever but people still handwave any issue because it’s “part of the world.” It isn’t a real world and the devs make the story, so bad design shouldn’t be excused just because they write a couple lines for it. Like I’ve seen people defend godefrey and astel a lot just because there’s like two sentences about them in item descriptions.


Anubra_Khan

The game is 4 or 5 times the size of vanilla Dark Souls 3. It should at least have the same amount of unique bosses. Not too much to ask.


32BitOsserc

I don’t mind all that much, they do seem to at least make the effort to change stuff around when they reskin, either adding bosses in as regular enemies later on, giving the dragons different elemental attacks or at least making them appear in a gank fight with something else. That said, Godefrey is a bad example, he’s a shameless rehash of one of the game’s most unique bosses without any of the atmosphere or lore, no second phase and no screaming “FOREFATHERS ONE AND ALL BEAR WITNESS”


TheNononParade

Make the game shorter then


crow622

I don't mind either as long as there is a healthy amount of unique bosses and enemies too, which there is.