T O P
hyugafan

I was a PTQ grinder for years, and learned to do this the hard way after I accidentally drew an extra card when my sleeves stuck together and I got a match-losing game loss in game 3 for a top 8 lock, that turned into me missing top 8 due to a loss the following round. As a bonus, if your deck includes miracles (mechanic from avacyn restored), it ensures you are not putting the card immediately in your hand and can choose to miracle it.


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drwicksy

It also means you can get the cool schlick sound as it drags across the table... we may do this for different reasons


GolfQuirky

Ok Gus fring


hyugafan

Hallelujah, brother!


WitchPHD_

I never did any real tournament grinding (just fnms and one larger prerelease event) but I learned it this way from people who did, and have just always done it. It's exactly this, to prevent from accidentally drawing two cards. In multiplayer games it also makes more of a "show" of drawing, so you can indicate it is your turn and your draw phase has started... and over webcam it's easier to see that you're not cheating by taking extra cards. I've even seen some people do a bit of an exaggerated/extended shake-slide of the card, as if wishing themselves good luck.


ITNinja

This and it also gives you a few more seconds to double check for upkeep actions. Drawing a card and immediately looking at it, then suddenly realizing you missed something during your upkeep makes it harder to walk back. If you untap and draw a card but keep it face-down on the table you can give the board one more look. If you realize you missed something at this point then it's easier to step back into your upkeep because you haven't gained any information from the new card.


Razulghul

I usually splay my cards when drawing/searching face down to prevent over drawing and just be transparent. For whatever reason I tend to overdraw my first turns 7 so it just comes naturally now.


mathdude3

I'm not super familiar with the IPG, but wouldn't that be a Hidden Card Error (if you added the card to your hand, otherwise it would be Looking at Extra Cards)? Your opponent would get to see your hand and return one card of their choice to the library, but it wouldn't earn you a game loss. Exception being if the judge thought you were cheating and did it intentionally, but in that case you'd get DQ'd instead.


hyugafan

It is now, but rules were different back in 2007. ​ I'm a fossil.


Lerbyn210

That's interesting never thought it was such a deep reasoning for it


noknam

Accidentally looking at extra cards is punished with a game loss? Did you insult the judge's heritage or something?


praisebetothedeepone

It's an illegal scry which is cheating. If you're in a tournament it isn't necessarily friendly even if everyone is being friendly.


noknam

Quick Google says it's a warning rather than an instant loss. But I guess PTQ do tend to go a bit overboard on rulings at times.


InfernalHibiscus

It was a loss for many many years. It was only changed in 2018 or so.


Moclordimick

Comp Rel events are much stricter on the rules. It’s not about going overboard it’s about making sure everyone is held to the same standard of play.


Myrddin_Naer

Tournaments have much stricter rules do dusuade people from cheating intentionally. An unfortunate side effect of that is stuff like this. That's just how it is 🤷‍♂️


Vashkyller

I’m all for rules but that’s fuckin stupid af. Knowing what the next card is gonna be, will rarely if ever help you out. If anything just shuffle your library. Oof to all the people downvoting me, I really hope I don’t ever play with you in an edh game. Edit 2: I’m right rules were changed and it just a warning. This sub is truly cancerous


seergun

You obviously aren't "all for rules" if you don't understand that cheating, even accidentally, at competitive events, incures punishment. Also, knowing even 1 card down can completely change how you play. One of the (many) reasons blue cantrips are so good.


Frezzwar

In magic, you can't cheat accidentally. For it to be considered cheating, you must have done it with intent, knowing it is against the rules, in order to gain an unfair advantage. Now this situation definitely could be cheating. Players can definitely look at the top two cards, apologize, put one back and draw the other, thereby gain an advantage. But if this happens by accident it is NOT cheating. It is still against the rules, a judge should still be called, and a penalty will still be given. It just isn't cheating :)


Stiggy1605

The judge doesn't know intent though.


Frezzwar

They don't. But they look at other warnings and incidents through the tournament. They see if this is something you do in every match or if it is the first time in 8 rounds. One is probably a mistake, 8 is a clear pattern. There is a difference. That is why penalties can get upgraded for repeat offence.


Shut_It_Donny

Incorrect. You can cheat accidentally.


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Shut_It_Donny

False. Intent is not required for cheating. Downvote it all you want. Doesn't change the fact.


Vashkyller

Sure some kind of punishment in a scene that competitive. Not an automatic game loss. That’s beyond harsh. Why anyone would want to subject themselves to those kinds of punishment is beyond me. Also blue cantrips are good because they thin your deck and get you to your next card. Most usually scry and draw, so you’re going two deep.


SecondPersonShooter

At high level events rule enforcement is about setting a president. For every honest person who draws an extra card by mistake there’s a cheater who’s going to play it off as “ohh it was an accident” competitive rule enforcement wants to make a cheater think “I’ve got no shot of pulling this off so I won’t bother”. We are in an edh subreddit stuff is usually low stakes and chill but when you’re playing in a modern even at a tournament, you paid for a ticket, you got your deck, you’ve practiced, you appreciate the safety in knowing no one’s going to fuck you


ArNoir

> is about setting a president Lmao


SecondPersonShooter

“Magic players shuffle your decks and set a president as your commander. Looks like we have Michael D Huygens of the Republic of Ireland, against George W Bush, what a clash of the titans this game will be”


BuildBetterDungeons

My boy Micky D would burst old Georgie


NerdyBGO

Just so you know, it's "Precedent"


SecondPersonShooter

Yeah just good old autocorrect making a mess of me, but thank you


Vashkyller

Nah I’ll die on this hill but it really doesn’t matter because I’ll never play at that level. Beyond harsh punishment. Let me guess you cut a persons deck and a card flips while cutting and you get a game loss because you now know that your opponent has a basic land in their deck. Lmao y’all wild out here


SecondPersonShooter

If you never play at that level good for you. Rules are rules and for those who do play at that level it is appreciated. But don’t write off the rules just because you play casual.


Shut_It_Donny

That's a strange hill to choose to die on if you'll never play at that level. I was at a qualifier. I didn't draw the second, but I did lift it enough that my opponent thought I saw it. We both stopped and he called a judge. The judge asked if I see the card. I said I think it was green. He just made me put it on the bottom and gave me a warning. So, you see is about REL. At a lower REL, it's a lower penalty. Happy?


dragonfly15

You don't need to guess, the rules are publicly available- look up the Magic Infraction Procedure Guide. Flipping a card while cutting an opponent's deck is Looking at Extra Cards. It's a warning, and the deck is just shuffled and cut again. That said, to prevent abuse, the third warning in the same category of infraction is upgraded to a game loss. These upgrades are pretty rare in my experience though. People at large events try to be careful to avoid that kind of thing, but warnings happen all the time because people do make mistakes.


iBoomBoX

I think your argument, unfortunately, is coming from ignorance. If you haven't played at a competitive level before and have only ever played with friends or at commander night at an lgs, maybe it seems harsh to get serious violations for minor things like dropping cards or accidently seeing a land from someone's deck, but the advantage you can gain over an opponent from even knowing a single card might make them play the game totally different. For example, I play burn in legacy and modern. If someone went to shuffle my deck, and accidently dropped a Goblin Guide or a Skewer, they immediately know what I'm playing, and that puts me at a huge disadvantage. So the game loss is actually completely fair. He's a real life situation that played out once. I'm 2-0 at an Modern Event back in 2014. I'm on Kiki pod, and my opponent and I sit down to play. When I present my deck, he accidently flips two cards out of my deck, a birthing pod and a gitaxian probe. Judge is called, he gets a game loss, and we go to game two. He immediately pulls out his sideboard and gets to work optimizing his list. I might be a game up, but I have no idea what he's playing, and that puts me at a huuuge disadvantage. Turns out he was playing Jeskai control. Jeskai used to be a deck that had bad game 1 match ups, but got much better after sideboard. So he got to play two sideboarded games against me, when I only had one. I lost that game 1-2. Now later that day, he had another incident dropping someone else's deck while shuffling and he was dq'd from the event entirely. The rules are the way they and punishments have been made with decades of tournament experience behind them. If I were you, I'd refrain from making arguments from places of ignorance in the future, makes you look really stupid. Especially if you'd be willing to 'die on this hill' over something you truely don't understand.


BobaFett0451

This guy tournaments. I played 4 color gifts back in those days. Ah what a fun and interesting deck to play


iBoomBoX

Man old modern :') brings a tear to my eye to see what they've done to my boy lol


Mt_Koltz

That dude was hella cheating on purpose. Sorry you ran into that.


Vallosota

> Let me guess you cut a persons deck and a card flips while cutting and you get a game loss because you now know that your opponent has a basic land in their deck My man, look at competitive decks of PT's and count the number of basics. Yes, that matters for path to exile and similar cards. it's insane how ppl can't see that.


Bootd42

I don't know about game loss, but in that situation, a judge would still be called, hell accidently dropping a card while shuffling incurs some kind of punishment. It honestly doesn't matter what the card is, but in your example , that basic land tells me a few things thay i wouldn't have known about your deck prior to playing and lets me know what i should expect even before ive drawn my hand. magic is a game of information, so any additional information gained is an advantage you wouldn't normally have, which can be argued is cheating


AbsolutlyN0thin

It's no longer a game loss used to be though. Iirc just a warning now


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dragonfly15

Even so, this is no longer a game loss. If a player draws two cards for turn and adds them to their hand, it's Hidden Card Error. That's a warning, and the player is given two options: they can concede or they can reveal their hand to their opponent, who can pick any card to get shuffled into the unknown portion of the library. It's an extreme fix, but drawing an extra card is a huge advantage. Note that this is entirely different if the player only saw two cards when drawing. Then it's Looking at Extra Cards, also a warning, but the fix is to shuffle the unknown portion of the library and then continue the draw as normal.


MustaKotka

Deck thinning in EDH is negligible. I just wanted to point that out, that's all. Going X deep on the other hand is powerful so you're right there.


Bootd42

scrying and drawing is not "going 2 deep" though


MustaKotka

How come? \[\[Opt\]\]: scry one card, it's not good, bottom it, draw another card. In total you've seen two cards. That's called "going two deep".


Bootd42

yes in that example you do see 2 cards but I would also challenge that just on the basis that you don't see the second card until its actually drawn, though I suspect we'll just have to agree to disagree as to the semantics


MustaKotka

Hmm... I don't see why it would make a difference when you see the second card. Brainstorm draws three and you don't see the cards before you've drawn them yet we say it goes three deep. Ponder is also three deep (fourth if you shuffle) and there you see all the cards before drawing them, too. I think it's just a generally accepted concept that scrying, looking at the top X cards and drawing all count towards "seeing a card" and thus contribute a point towards "going X deep".


MTGCardFetcher

[Opt](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/3/2/323db259-d35e-467d-9a46-4adcb2fc107c.jpg?1594735602) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/59/opt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/323db259-d35e-467d-9a46-4adcb2fc107c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opt) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


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Vashkyller

Yeah fuck is a bad word. Can’t say anything remotely negative on the internet.


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The_Mormonator_

We've removed your post because it violates our primary rule, "Be Excellent to Each Other". You are welcome to message the mods if you need further explanation.


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Vashkyller

It really is. Sad times


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The_Mormonator_

We've removed your post because it violates our primary rule, "Be Excellent to Each Other". You are welcome to message the mods if you need further explanation.


Vashkyller

It’s rough being smart when you’re surrounded by idiots


scubahood86

Dunning Krueger effect personified here. I'll be sure to use you as an example of it in the future.


Vashkyller

Looks like you can’t read. I was 100% correct in my original statement.


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Vashkyller

Sorry can’t help it that I’m right


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The_Mormonator_

We've removed your post because it violates our primary rule, "Be Excellent to Each Other". You are welcome to message the mods if you need further explanation.


Vashkyller

Nah my friend already brought me some last night. Thanks though. Keep being toxic


The_Mormonator_

We've removed your post because it violates our primary rule, "Be Excellent to Each Other". You are welcome to message the mods if you need further explanation.


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The_Mormonator_

We've removed your post because it violates our primary rule, "Be Excellent to Each Other". You are welcome to message the mods if you need further explanation.


Vashkyller

Damn right after I’m heavily berated by a bunch of idiots. Fuck outta here you toxic loser


Toys-R-Us_GiftCard

Calling everyone else toxic doesn't deflect your own toxicity. Why you use that word anyway? Toxic. You're obviously a right wing nutcase who hates sjw, snowflakes, and wokeness. Quit using words you hate in an attempt to obscure who is and isn't actually toxic.


Vashkyller

I’m not being toxic at all. I made statement which was 100% right. Then I was berated by this cancerous sub hivemind by losers like yourselves. Far from being right wing. Cancel culture snowflakes are the most toxic people I’ve ever met. Need to seriously pull their head out of their ass.


The_Mormonator_

We've removed your post because it violates our primary rule, "Be Excellent to Each Other". You are welcome to message the mods if you need further explanation.


Vashkyller

So all the people calling me an asshole and berating me are fine. Bad mods


The_Mormonator_

If you would like their comments to be reviewed, please report them.


TheReaperAbides

>will rarely if ever But it might though. You admit that yourself, there *is* a chance it will. And shuffling can be an advantage, as anyone who ever cracked a fetch land whilst a brainstorm was resolving would know. Also, you understand that it's not just about whether it will help you out or not as much as it is just opening the door to cheating? At least if you allow shuffling. "Oh shit, I just looked at my card, but I still have upkeep things to do. Lemme just put it back and shuffle" - The player who just drew a land while he was already mana flooded.


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Vashkyller

Nah it’s not. As others have said it’s no longer an instant loss.


TheStealthRhino

I do it to hide the card while simultaneously showing my opponents I am drawing a single card.


James_the_Third

Totally unrelated, but in the game of mahjong, the window to “call” or respond to a move lasts only until the next tile hits the table. So you could draw your tile for the turn, but until you set it down, the previous turn is still technically active. As a result, players will habitually knock the tile against the table before properly adding it to their line, to swiftly demark the end of the prior turn. No idea why people do it in Magic though.


hyugafan

Man I need to learn mahjong. It sounds like such an interesting game. I could also finaly rewatch Akagi and understand what the fuck is going on.


samsk530

It’s really not as difficult as it looks once you start playing. Guess it also sort of depends on if you’re playing traditional Chinese or American rules. Mahjong is super fun either way!


downvote_dinosaur

> It’s really not as difficult as it looks it absolutely is once you start trying to read peoples' discards. it's incredibly challenging. before you get to that, though, yes it's super fun and not that tough to get into. I think most people in the states are playing riichi mahjong nowadays, though. that's all anybody at my club wants to play.


stargrinder

I agree. The fundamentals of the game come pretty quickly but the deep strategy and the million winning hands and their values are intimidating. It is a fantastic game though.


kakusei_zero

I play MJ with my family a bunch for game night. The moment we switched from 3 point minimum (must win with the same suit) to 1 point minimum (literally anything valid goes) was one of the biggest wake-up calls I've had in a game.


Chrysaries

>traditional Chinese or American rules Oh, I can imagine these. Traditional Chinese: overly complicated but the way the game is meant to be played. American rules: at the start of your combat, throw 10 dice and count how many WHAM! you got.


Gus_Fu

I've been playing Mahjong with my girlfriend's family and even though I'm a keen gamer I find it so difficult. It's hard to know what some of the game pieces are and there are so many different ways to score points. I usually just go for 7 pairs or some other niche hand because I feel like I'm not going to win anyway. My main assessment of it is that it's very heavily luck dependent with some element of trying to read other people and choosing to collect suits that will be available. A bit like poker I guess.


TheSlovak

Poker, pinochle, rummy....it is an interesting mix of competitive trick taking games where you're also trying to match up certain "sets". I haven't played for a few years, but I really would love to again.


hejtmane

Never played it I am older and did not play magic until I was older darn kids. I grew up playing card games hearts, spades, pinochle, pitch, rummy, gin rummy, canasta and a bunch more . Also in the army ontop of cards was dominions so played many variation of dominions including 42


downvote_dinosaur

> I could also finaly rewatch Akagi and understand what the fuck is going on. i watched it after i learned to play it's kind of bad because 70% of that show is either "holy shit look how lucky akagi is" or "wow look at akagi blatantly cheating". the other 20% is "wow akagi baited that guy into doing something really really fucking stupid, like 2 kans after akagi had declared riichi also it ends in the middle of a cliffhanger that wasn't resolved until the manga ended, apparently a few weeks ago. that's right, the entire rest of a decade plus long manga was just one night long. mahjong is fun as hell though. pick up one of the Yakuza games, they have a really good and accessible mahjong minigame.


Lord_of_Caffeine

If you pick up Yakuza, start with Yakuza 0.


junejuju

ff14 free trial has mahjong at the gold saucer (when they start allowing new free trial signups). ive heard of mahjong players making default characters and doing the bare minimum to unlock it lol


Origamidos

I learnt mahjong watching Akagi, still had no idea what was going on


btmalon

Its kinda like go fish or rummy


DoctorPrisme

Kinda the same tbh. When my opponent says "next", if I draw it's too late for anyone to answer. But it's supposed to be casual magic so I draw super slowly without looking immediately so if anyone remembers "ho fuck wait, end of turn, imma do this" they still can.


MED10CRE

I do this when playing. I do it to show that I’m in my draw step and am only drawing a single card and not accidentally picking up two


HairiestHobo

The Miracle mechanic from Avacyn Restored was drilled into my skull as a new player, never broke the habit.


Hot-Parfait-5722

All those comments about why it is good to draw cards facedown and i see none of them talking about the heart of the cards and how important is your will power while drawing. I drew exactly what i needed to win so many times. Just drew the card facedown, took a deep breath and "evoila" it was the win-con card. Manifestation pays off Theres a little truth in every joke 😂


Zerienga

That reminds me of the one time I was milled to one card left in my deck..... And that last card was my last wincon. [[Dragon Throne of Tarkir]] did some work for me in my Prossh deck when I first started.


MTGCardFetcher

[Dragon Throne of Tarkir](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/5/d508e6a6-034c-424d-993e-7354ce212f13.jpg?1562794087) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragon%20Throne%20of%20Tarkir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/219/dragon-throne-of-tarkir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d508e6a6-034c-424d-993e-7354ce212f13?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dragon-throne-of-tarkir) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Hot-Parfait-5722

Situations like this are so memorable! I think my love for the game is coming from these exact moments. Even losing to someone that wins like this is a good feeling 😁


Zerienga

We had done the whole "Draw your last pathetic card" spiel, too.


whomikehidden

> “evoila” Just curious, do you mean “et voilà”? French for “and there it is”?


D00M_H4MM3R

Just a classic move to draw a single card. If there are prizes on the line and accidentally drawing two would be a big deal, get in the habit of making sure it’s only one card. Sorta fun to add a lil drama to each card too.


[deleted]

For real. The slide and snap to hand to start a new turn. mmm.


Pengothing

Yep, this. It makes it a lot clearer there's nothing weird happening. It also avoids the whole "Wait, I want to do something on your upkeep still" issue.


gondoWC

i do that. I have the "wet hands"from sweat. so i do that to prevent drawing extra cards by accident because they stick together.AT sanctioned events,drawing extra can have heavy penalties.


TheDeadlyCat

Huh. Never noticed. Reading the reasons here I think I have to check out what everyone is talking about and probably adopt that.


childrenofkorlis

Well it's a useful thing to do. This way it's easier to everyone see that you are in your draw phase, that you are drawing only one card too. If you have any trigger like scry it's easy to everyone see what's happening.


BrigBubblez

When playing other formats like legacy or even modern it's a clear way to show that it's the 1st card you drew this turn. Some of those formats have miracle decks or delver decks (or did not real sure what is still being played). Both of these decks require you look at the top card of your library and than cast for cheaper (miracle decks) or reveal it ( delver decks). By putting the doing this you also let your opponent now that you did in fact draw for turn. So it is basically information for your opponent and judges, then it just becomes habit.


Xatsman

[I like to pass the time with friction.](https://youtu.be/wrPr8fDgkyI?t=17s)


JasonAnderlic

Its alot less annoying then when players flick/fan through the cards in their hand!


hebeach89

I had a friend who would do that constantly because he knew the sound bothered me. We are no longer friends.


DeadpoolVII

Cannot stand this. Just chill. The cards aren't going to change. Are you really that anxious that you need to constantly fidget?


jbaisden

Gives you an extra beat in case someone has a response or you were overzealous drawing and looking at something you may need to shuffle back. I get into a habit of drawing and leaving it face down until I’m for sure good to put it into my hand. It really helps with spell-table as board states and responses sometimes aren’t as easy to keep track of.


chuggerchugger

Have been playing cube for some years now and it's a habit by now. Too often someone wanted to do something in my upkeep, but could not react when I drew the card. I see it as a small window for my opponents. Also good for miracles.


Koras

While it ensures you only draw a single card as others have noted, I also want to add that ever since I started doing it, I've not knocked down my deck. When going straight from top of deck to hand, if I rushed it, my deck would tilt, or I'd knock the next card off the top of occasion. I'm mildly [dyspraxic](https://incluzy.com/dyspraxia-symptoms-in-adults/), so my fine motor skills just sometimes just go to complete shit. When I put a secondary motion between drawing the card and adding it to my hand, that goes away, whether because I'm more focused on the motion, or because the angle is different (if you pull straight from deck to hand, the card moves diagonally, whereas this adds angles). I have no evidence on this, but correcting my draw motion has dramatically reduced the amount of time my clumsy ass has to play 99-card pickup.


Sabz5150

>if I rushed it, my deck would tilt When the Katanas be fresh.


DarthSchrank

Dramatic effect


TheCrimsonChariot

No one in my playgroup does it, but I personally vocalize the steps as I’m starting my turn. Helps me keep track of stuff and if things happen on untap, upkeep or draw, helps me remember.


BigTomCasual

I don’t even get this — so you draw a card, but before looking at it you place it face down on the table, then you slide it across the table, and then pick it up and look at it?


Able-Armadillo7824

This gives the table a beat to respond when you're not being super explicit with priority (and let's face it, most casual tables are pretty loose with priority). Thus, you announce a draw trigger, pull the card face down, and then pause a beat for a response before you see the card and make the draw unreversable.


BetaSprite

Sounds like paranoia that someone will peek at the card? I don't know, it's not something I've observed people doing.


Humpuppy

Heart of the cards YuGi boy


CaptainKraw

I do the keep it by the deck and look at it thing, always have. It's just a habit I don't know where I picked it up. My friend asked me if it was because I played a ton in original Innistrad (miracles), but I didn't really. I don't play in tournaments really either so I just don't know why I do it


hardbeat101

Do you have an example of it? I have no idea what it's meant to look like.


BrizzFather

I gotta add that to that little pompous flick of the wrist when I draw. My buddy haaaates when I do that. So of course I have to really play it up.


ime33

I think it's a technique/habit content creators have to clearly show the draw to the camera. It is a clear visual indication of whose turn it is, and shows that they are now the active player by making it obvious that they have drawn their card for turn.


fabticus

It's a good habit to have for being a better magic player, also drilled into me is announcing "untap, upkeep, draw" as I go through my beginning phase. Idk why I don't announce the main phases tho


Toys-R-Us_GiftCard

You surely announce moving to declare attacks? That's the most important imo


fabticus

Oh oh, yeah, I do but I'd assumed that it's the normal thing that ppl do so I didn't mention it.


0ber0n_Ken0bi

Always draw to the table. You reduce the chances of accidentally drawing double and you make it even harder for your opponent to see what it was. Those of us who were around for Avacyn Restored (miracles) have this ingrained.


Eliteguard999

One thing that bothers the shit out of me watching people play is the people who shuffle the cards in their hand over and over again. It accomplishes nothing and makes it seem like you're a desperate and resourceless player looking for answers you don't have and generally just a waste of the opposing player's time. Another is having a clean and organized board state, back when I played at LGS's people would get agitated when I would ask them to reorganize their messy as fuck board so I can see what the hell they're doing.


Scubasage

The shuffling the hand thing is like 99% of the time just a nervous tick. Think of it like using a fidget spinner or fidget cube or something. The other 1% of the time it's someone doing it to try and annoy the opponent in an attempt to gain an advantage in that game.


Eliteguard999

I used to say “shuffling your hand won’t make a card magically appear that will give you the win. You’re going to lose, you just have hope that you can somehow turn this around.”


Scubasage

Nah, they're not doing it to try and make cards appear. Those people are doing it to make it seem like they're thinking when they're actually stalling the timer.


Eliteguard999

Exactly, so when I used to play at LGS’s I would instead make it look like they’re desperate and resourceless. Hey, if they’re gonna waste my time then I’m gonna have fun with it. It worked wonders once when I did it to bait a IZZETRON player back in the day into wasting his only counter spell so I could play [[Blood Moon]] immediately afterword.


MTGCardFetcher

[Blood Moon](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MrChow1917

If you have two or three cards in your hand and you don't shuffle your hand after you draw, I can see if you're playing off your top deck or if you're playing a card you've been holding for a few turns. That's information you may want to obscure in a tournament setting.


Eliteguard999

This is quite a bit of reaching.


MrChow1917

Not really. You shouldn't be giving your opponent free information in a competitive setting. Doesn't really matter in edh tho IMO.


Eliteguard999

It can’t deny your opponent information if they don’t see what card you drew. Is this like the “If I hold down A after I use a Poke’ball it’ll increase my chances of it working” myth?


MrChow1917

You can see if they're playing the card they immediately drew or if they're holding that card in their hand dude.


Eliteguard999

And if you didn’t know what’s in their hand what good does that knowledge do you? Either they would be “saving it for later” but it could also be: keeping a land in your hand to deceive you, or they simply can’t cast the spell they drew. It’s completely nonsensical to shuffle your hand constantly other than to be annoying and waste time. It’s only advantageous if someone does something to your hand “at random” in which case your hand should be shuffled so it truly is “at random”. It doesn’t deny any information whatsoever, it really is an urban myth like holding A on the Poke’ball.


MrChow1917

Depends on what the opponents tells are. Obscuring what you drew is just keeping a poker face. You don't want to give away that you're mana flooded or bluffing. You can do the opposite and pretend to be mana flooded while holding up an answer. If you don't play a lot of 1v1 in person I don't expect you to get it. Obviously you aren't going to be focusing on details like your opponents facial expressions and tracking what card they drew and if they played that card this turn in a casual multiplayer game.


Eliteguard999

Ah yes the guy with a masters in psychology and fifteen plus years of playing magic under his belt is a “casual player”. You’re kinda exposing yourself by thinking that that’s a “poker face” when sending false information is better than sending none to deceive your opponent, but then again we all can’t be desperate and resourceless beginners at the game like you.


ripout

The shuffle is actually useful for when you draw a card and you don't want your opponents to know what was drawn, if you intend to play it. 95% of the time people just do it to do it, but it does have a use.


The_Mad_Pantser

For me, it's one of those quirky habits I picked up watching others play, like flicking cards or putting my deck sideways, or pile shuffling. But like others have pointed out it does help prevent double drawing.


NebulaPresent5385

May also be to more effectively hide information from your opponents.


dantesdad

Magic players have weird quirks, but I could see doing this as a way to make sure you don't just put the card directly in your hand if you have decks that run cards with Miracle. Those you very much need to show before you put them in your hand just to make it crystal clear that the Miracle card was indeed your first draw.


Hunter_Badger

I definitely understand doing this if you single sleeve cause it can be hard to tell if you drew more than one card. If you're double sleeving though, shouldn't you be able to *feel* if you've accidentally drawn multiple cards so you can just put one back down before your hand even moves away from your library?


Shinkenoh

Because I'm in the lookout for miracles


TheWagonBaron

Personally if I do that, I'm praying to Señor Top Deck for the card to be something useful.


TeveshSzat10

Old competitive habit so you don't draw an extra card by mistake (as this is a game-losing error). You can tell by the way someone handles their cards that they've been to a lot of tournaments...


ethersworncanonist

It's a habit. I've never done it, but a lot of people do it in every Magic format that I've played in paper.


DaedalusDevice077

It's 100% a miracles thing, at least for me.


Suspinded

Mainly to ensure you're not drawing extra cards on accident. Partially for the suspense.


sonofsarkhan

From what I’ve heard, it’s because of cards with the miracle ability. Since they have an alternate casting cost if they’re the first draw each turn, drawing the card like this pretty much shows the opponent that you’re not cheating since people will separately look at the card before putting it in their hand


RVides

If identifies the drawn card as seperate, lets you look at it and pause before adding it to the rest of the hand and becoming unidentifiable. Many cards have a text line similar too, when you draw this card, you may reveal it. Drawing the card in this manner clearly identifies the card as the one being drawn, and if you hurriedly draw it put it into your hand and flick your cards around before realizing that this terminus would have saved you, it is too late, and youre going to have to pay full price. Also, drawing that fast could be why your delver isnt a 3/2 flyer when your hand is all instants. Arguably you could call a judge and prove it. But now youre giving your opponent more free information. But even if you had 7 instant and 1 permanent. Youre just out of luck.


[deleted]

It's just a way people draw to ensure they don't have more than one card. I don't see it very often, but I usually do the whole 'put face down and drag' thing, but I also tilt it up when I know it's only one card, and look at it before putting it into my hand; it's just something that I could never stop doing after playing scars/innistrad and innistrad/RTR standard.


No_Permission6508

So you don't bleed.


kiefenator

In tightly packed tables, it can keep people from accidentally peeking at your cards. Miracle players do it because they can look at the card and decide to cast it before it gets put in their hand. It gives you plausible deniability if you accidentally draw two cards. You haven't seen the cards yet, so you can call a judge and have them reset the card. There's a bunch of different reasons to do it, but you'll mostly see it out of the enfranchised crowd that have played a litany of decks over multiple formats.


GrimBright

I can never sweat from my hands so I've yet to grab two cards at once, but people usually do this flick because of a weaker physiology making them accidentally draw more than expected for whatever reason


DarkJester89

They saw someone else do it and they do it now too. No real reason other than aesthetics, especially if the whole pod you saw doing it


DangerSpaghet

It kinda feels cool idk 🤷🏻


T3knikal95

I think it also has something to do with players mimicking each other. So like you know when you "flick" your cards down so they make that nice slapping noise, the reason people do that is A. Because it sounds satisfying and B. You've seen other people doing it.


heathahR

I’ve done this my whole life when it comes to any card game and never really thought about it. Besides habit, I think it just ensures that no one else sees what the card is especially when playing shoulder to shoulder with opponents.


lloydsmith28

I thought it was mostly to show your opponents you're drawing, via spelltable as some things can be lost off camera


Elan_Morin_Tendronai

It demonstrates that you are not cheating.


RubbishBuffer

Same reason ASMR is a thing I reckon. Everyone was doing it at a tournament I was at 10 years ago and the sound made me immediately and permanently emulated the behavior ever since. Never even thought about why until this thread. Same with noisily flipping through my hand and snapping cards down onto play mats. Free will is a lie.


Blank_Address_Lol

I like to slap removal / counters on the table like I'm playing Spades. The **slap** noise it makes is just super awesome.


BlazeLE

Are you even playing a counter if you dont do that?


Blank_Address_Lol

Bwuahahaha facts.


etom21

Cus it looks cool.


ProfessionalSquid

card-on-playmat go swish swish That's why I do it anyway