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Interesting how much r/Speedrunning had since changed their opinion on Karl Jobst since his Dream videos. A story told in 3 parts.

Interesting how much r/Speedrunning had since changed their opinion on Karl Jobst since his Dream videos. A story told in 3 parts.

filthfilth

I've said it once and I'll say it again, it's almost as if a sub about speedrunning doesn't really have the intellectual capacity to process/handle sensitive drama even if that drama is part of the speedrun community. ​ Edit: This is not me saying they have no right to be mad at Karl, those screenies were a huge yikes. But let's not spread misinfo about something very sensitive. Karl claimed these screenies were "out of context" so let's wait for him to respond first. Always remember to form conclusions *after* we know the full context


simonjones2006

100% agree. We superior dream stans are pioneers in the intellectual realm, above these mere peasants. If they are man, we are God.


freeMilliu_2K17

Says the Kaceytron stan


simonjones2006

Says the Dream anti


freeMilliu_2K17

He killed my grandma, I have good reason


simonjones2006

What I saw on the 31st September 2014 disagrees with you.


freeMilliu_2K17

:O Is my grandma alive?!


simonjones2006

You grandma is Dream. You may want to take some time to process this.


freeMilliu_2K17

I Oh god Is that why I keep hearing dudududu in my veins?!


Kritraawkets

dudududu


filthfilth

Okay Kacey stan...


freeMilliu_2K17

That is honestly my only genuine criticism of that sub. Karl once made a vid discussing how heavily focused the SR community in cheaters and outright demonizing every cheater which is of course fair, but it gets clouded into seeing everything that person did as evil. Again, that is fair, getting lied to hurts and it isn't a good precedent to the person you are criticizing. However, *sometimes* things aren't like the cheating situations, some drama, especially those with heavy subject matters, aren't as clean cut and black and white. And I guess to a lot of people, that is not an easy lesson to learn. I know it wasn't easy to me at least.


filthfilth

>heavy subject matters, aren't as clean cut and black and white. And I guess to a lot of people, that is not an easy lesson to learn. I know it wasn't easy to me at least. The internet has historically had problems with understanding this notion.


Emtech1

[Here are some new screenies that I think can't be excused with any additional context.](https://imgur.com/hFNDneF) TL;DR streamer calls him out for using a slur in an emote, Karl doubles down, makes excuses and gets his fans to retweet a tweet where he calls him a psychopath, encouraging some of them to spam his emotes in his stream. Karl never apologized and continues to use the slur to this day. EDIT: Also I wish to mention that Karl is fairly diligent when it comes to covering his hide which is why some people took a while to catch on. I don't expect him to do this again but in the past, [he nuked the whole general channel on his server right after the leaks.](https://i.imgur.com/tI3o9vB.png)


freeMilliu_2K17

Is it bad if I am personally still willing to hear him address it? I doubt he'll manage to salvage this but I don't know... I'm honestly still in some sort of shock so I at least wish to listen even if he fails to address it any well.


Emtech1

No, of course not. It's important to see how he addresses it so we can determine if he understands what he's done wrong or if he'll continue to make excuses like he has in the past. I do think Karl is deceptive, but an apology is always a step in the right direction, even if it isn't accepted by everyone. I will also go on the record to say that I accept(ed) Goose's apology and believe he has changed because he hasn't said or done anything horrible (that I know of) since the apology. Some people will disagree with that and that's perfectly fine too.


AlexReynard

https://youtu.be/3_jcpig-C2s?t=996


freeMilliu_2K17

I've seen it, I'm active here dude.


AlexReynard

A'ight. I just figured, since it was uploaded today, it was 50/50.


filthfilth

Thanks for the information. Still it's a huge yikes, imo, not a good look on Karl to say the least. But I still think it's worth waiting for his response (for me anyways, I'm fairly neutral), I don't feel comfortable coming to a conclusion on the situation so quickly. That being said, I'm also not comfortable dismissing the screenshots entirely as they're the only evidence I know of. Edit: All that being said, I do at the very least, hope Karl apologises for what he did wrong...


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Emtech1

There's historical evidence that the slur offends Japanese people but you're going to die on the same hill that Karl chose unless clear evidence can be established that the slur is bad in Australia. Contrary to what Karl is trying to tell you, we Australians don't regularly discuss our entitlement to use slurs that have been historically used to abuse minorities. I've discussed some [anecdotes in the past](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stickless/comments/ppwsyn/karl_jobst_getting_his_fans_to_harass_kevinddr/hd6s3e0/) but I hate to break it to you pal, if someone tells you that they're uncomfortable with a historical slur being uttered, you shouldn't say it. If you're going to fight for your right to continue to use this word, you're a racist and you don't respect minorities.


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Emtech1

> I mean, yes? People on this site get offended over the most minor shit. I don't know why Jap would be considered offensive, considering similar contractions like Yank, Brit or Aussie are not. So no I'm not just going to take your word for it and your personal anecdotes are not a source of evidence. For what it's worth, I'm also an Australian and have never seen this term used offensively before. I understand it's confusing which is why I don't think anyone is automatically racist for making the mistake of shortening "Japanese" or "Nippon" with "Jap" or "Nip." It "makes sense," doesn't it? With the examples you've provided, they don't hold negative sentiments because they have been clearly adopted as a self descriptor, although some people take offense to the term "Yank". "Jap" and "Nip" are the equivalent of "Abo" to "Aboriginal" as the word carries historical connotations where the word was used to denigrate those groups. If the Japanese or the Aborigines had reclaimed those words, there wouldn't be any issues. With the Japanese, the preferred way of shortening it is JPN or JP.


Xanimal123

Is it really that far-fetched to believe that a word isn't a slur even if someone told you it is? Like from the screenshots he linked apparently it's pretty normalized and JAP is something you use to either to refer to Japanese people or something else related to Japan, like I would just say that's ignorant, maybe stubborn as well. Like I'm literally an Indonesian, and I didn't even know indon was a derogatory term used against Indonesians by Malaysians until I became an adolescent, let alone know that Jap is a fucking slur until like yesterday, I always thought it was just a shortened version for Japanese. So actually I would say that Karl Jobst behavior regarding the word Jap makes sense, not excusing it or anything but IMO it does make sense.


Emtech1

I think it makes perfect sense too and I've said that in the past. I only knew it was a slur until a few years ago when I saw a reddit comment that explained it was and why, and I was so surprised I immediately told my friend who also had no idea. There's nothing wrong with not knowing it's just his stubborn behavior that concerns me. He just *really* doesn't like being wrong which is appalling for a 30+ year old father like him. I also have never heard of "Indon" either, thanks for telling me. I have heard of Indomie though and that's pretty based.


Xanimal123

Yeah I guess he was just really stubborn, and also you probably haven’t heard about Indon because I think most of the world doesn’t even know Indonesia exists, like heck Bali (an island that’s a part of Indonesia) is more well known than Indonesia itself, I would say it’s because Indonesia doesn’t exert much soft power, and also yes indomie is based.


AlexReynard

>There's historical evidence that the slur offends Japanese people Have you asked any Japanese people? Or is this that thing where people act offended on behalf of people they've never spoken to about the topic?


Emtech1

Mate are you okay? You've replied to half a dozen of my comments. I mentioned anecdotes in the one you're responding to.


GreenSpaff

You were one of the key people spreading false information about Karl, making multiple posts on the thread about this several days ago. You of all people to comment on someone replying to several comments is genuinely laughable.. Accept responsibility and own up to your mistake, or continue doubling down and accept you're a trash human being.


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GreenSpaff

Doubling down and accepting you're a trash human being it is then. I hope you become a better person in the future.


Emtech1

My mistake, I deleted the false comment since I was watching the video as I wrote it since I've had a busy morning. Karl is still garbage and took no accountability.


AlexReynard

O.o I wasn't looking at usernames. I was just replying to comments as I saw them. Sorry if I seemed brigadey.


Emtech1

All good, bro. Just struck me as strange since you bumped an old thread instead of starting a new one.


Vrai_Doigt

Here's the context you're missing; JAP is a synonym for NSTC-J, JPN, JP for game versions. Not a slur, just taken out of context. Again.


AlexReynard

I like how whoever made that is so very sensitive to racial slurs, and then they include Pepe, the symbol of white supremacism.


lyoko1

Wait.... so using slurs is bad because....? Using slurs is perfectly normal acceptable behaviour, a tad cheeky and infantile but acceptable as long as it is for laughs even if it is at the expense of someone else. At least that is the way it is where i live to be it another way would be like a dictatorship.


AlexReynard

BTW, here's the additional context: https://youtu.be/3_jcpig-C2s?t=996


silvershadow014

dream subreddit says others cant process and/or handle drama lmfao


freeMilliu_2K17

For the last time this is an MCYT Drama subreddit now. Think Livestream Fails but for Minecraft. The only reason we're still called DreamWasTaken2 is cause it's made as a sorta fuck you to the main sub when folks were getting banned during the Speedrunning Drama. At least read the description bro.


silvershadow014

Do you not see the irony? They're literally in the speedrunning subreddit! It's not different from us being in a dream sub lol and yes, i know what sub im in. i come here all the time lol


freeMilliu_2K17

Ah yeah lol. I suck at reading jokes, sorry for misunderstanding lol.


Verona_Swift

It's always entertaining to watch a respected member of a community fall from their pedestal. The speedrunning community idolized Karl Jobst, but then he did something they didn't like, and some controversial information about him came to light (everything is alleged, mind you. Discord screenshots can be altered/fabricated, and we don't know the whole story. I'm of the wait and see camp). Now suddenly everybody already *knew* he was a scumbag for *ages*, and really, it's a shock he wasn't tossed out earlier! Please. You were all about how great he was a few months ago, you aren't fooling anyone. This kind of tribal mentality really is everywhere on the internet - we see it all the time with canceled CCs on Twitter, and let's not pretend Reddit is any different. We can just shove more words into our posts. I wonder what would happen if it came out that Karl Jobst was innocent all along - will they suddenly change their tune to "those dumbasses actually believed that Saint Jobst could possibly harm anyone? What a bunch of sheep". This is just so fascinating to watch, tbh.


SansStan

It reminds me of how everyone said it was so obvious that Dream cheated, but I doubt anyone other than the speedrun mods knew before it csme to light. These people have sticks so far up their asses, they think they know everything about a situation without doing any research of their own.


Verona_Swift

People really like being seen as right, so they try to change the narrative to make it seem like they *always* knew, even if they were just as blindsided by everyone else. There's always that one asshole that goes "I knew it!" at every single plot twist in a movie.


freeMilliu_2K17

It really is. We saw it with Dream, we sorta saw it with the UK streamers during the COVID Party, and honestly I think everybody is just blindsided by Karl ending up here. But alas. I'm also in the wait and see camp, I'm just... Done assuming Edit: I also like to add that I don't believe I am above these folks, I also instinctively assume the worse of people, so please don't take me as acting superior. At least with this one.


Verona_Swift

Very much the same with me. We're only human, so we jump to conclusions, we make assumptions, we make asses of ourselves. So long as we can recognize when we fuck up and apologize when appropriate, I'd say we're doing okay. :)


Prerson

Ah yes, two people saying that they were getting weird feelings about karl jobst is the same as the whole sub flipping their stance and claiming that they already knew that karl was a scumbag.


freeMilliu_2K17

It wasn't just them though, didn't you read in one of the comments they themselves said it's been a circlejerk? I wouldn't be able to find everything they're saying and I ignored the downvoted stuff of course, though there is a large chunk of discussion about how severe the accusations is anyways so there's that. I will again clarify I am not saying the entire sub is bad, I gave that disclaimer in my main comment. That isn't the intent of the post so sorry if it seemed like so.


Prerson

I don't have much problem with your post. My comment is directed to the person above me, things they are saying like >Now suddenly **everybody** already knew he was a scumbag for ages, and really, it's a shock he wasn't tossed out earlier! or >Please. **You were all** about how great he was a few months ago, you aren't fooling anyone. makes it seem like the sub as a whole is pretending to already know that Karl was bad. When in the screenshots you have provided it is clear that many people are also surprised that Karl would do such a thing and are waiting for a statement from Karl. Yes Karl's judgement was(and maybe still is) treated in a higher regard but its not like everyone always agrees with Karl all the time and Karl is not praised like a god and after the news they all turned 180 degree and are now treating Karl like some sort of a demon.


freeMilliu_2K17

Ah, fair. Thanks for clarifying.


freeMilliu_2K17

Note that I am NOT correlating the fallout I am observing of Karl's reputation to that sub to his opinions on Dream. I just thought it is an interesting comparison as I had noticed the shred of negativity during the 2nd video. However, I am also NOT saying the reason they turned on Karl was because of the Dream vids itself. The Discord Leaks has NOTHING TO DO with Dream or any of his controversies. It is a separate issue I entirely. That being said I am also NOT providing my opinion or my thoughts on the Discord Leaks through this post. I am still neutral about it and I don't feel too confident in my understanding of what's going on there. So don't take this as my commentary. I might provide opinions in replies but I'm still very torn, so it could easily change in either way as of now. Also, this is NOT an attempt to attack this subreddit, I am merely observing and using the Dream vids as comparison because I found it interesting. I am in no position to truly judge what's going on in that sub anymore cause I am just no longer any active there, even when lurking. I have no clue how it is being run and I was once proven wrong when discussing with folks there who are genuinely open for civil discussing of issues I did commented on. So please don't take this as me generalizing that entire sub and community. That is all.


Groenboys

So if the fallout of Karl has nothing to do with the Dream stuff, you are not giving your opinion on it and you don't want to say that they turned on Karl because of Dream... then what is exactly the point of this post? Like, if you want to make a comparison between the first Dream cheating video and the second, then just do that. It might be a 2 months dead conversation, but there would still be a point of entertainment there. What good does it do to now bring up this current Karl conversation up in the contect of the Dream cheating videos when you say the current conversation has nothing to do with Dream at all? It is so weird you made this post but also made this long comment that basically says that you should take nothing away from this post. The Karl Jobst situation should have never been brought up in this subreddit anyways. It is completely different messy situation and unless there is a clear connection to Dream/Minecraft youtube that isn't just a vague mental connection between comments at different times, this should be kept out of the subreddit


freeMilliu_2K17

I posted it more as an observation. I found looking back and comparing two things and how it changed as interesting personally, like how I stare at two drawings that I made years apart from one another. It is fascinating to me and it isn't supposed to be me saying "Oh they hate him now cause of Dream" when that isn't the case. I just personally only ever saw this change between the two Dream videos and found how much their opinion shifted since then as interesting. Take note that one of the first posts I visited this sub on was the Karl Jobst first Dream video and pretty much everybody in those comments adored Karl. It just surprised me honestly how much that shifted nowadays. That's it really. Again, I keep saying I try not to generalize the entire sub as I have spoken with cool and respectful people there before. So I don't wish to attack them or anything really. I apologize if I managed to do just that.


Groenboys

Let me refer to this: >Like, if you want to make a comparison between the first Dream cheating video and the second, then just do that That seems your intention, but why put then the comments from the current situation? Seems a bit tasteless to connect this messy situation to Dream if like you admitted it has nothing to do with Dream itself.


freeMilliu_2K17

If it is tasteless then it wasn't my intent and I apologize. It isn't just about the two Dream videos however, but I chose them specifically because the first one showed unanimous liking to Karl which is a good starting point, the second showed a little bit more disagreements which is fair, up to now where it is more mixed to negative. It was meant to show a chronology but not causation, which might've been what seemed like I was portraying in this post. If so then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I do have some level of bias against this sub back in the day though I try to curb that with reminding myself that a lot of folks I spoke to there were rather respectful despite the earlier disagreements I had with the sub months ago. It's good to admit to that bias before, but please know that I am not trying to show the sub in a negative light cause of it. Again, I am trying not to drag Dream into this, I am trying to show a chronology which might be coming off as wrong. Again, I'm sorry.


freeMilliu_2K17

Also, an addition, but I also considered gathering comments from Karl's other Minecraft Speedrunner video unrelated to Dream which was the one with the Bee thumbnail. My only issue was it didn't had too much interesting comments for me at least as it was mostly joking about how much cheaters there are in the Minecraft community and not much about how much they admire Karl. So I chose not to. Starting it with his first Dream video is intentional for it to be related to this sub and cause that was where I first understood how respected Karl was in that subreddit. Again, chronology and not causality. Though I am open that it came across that way despite my intent.


AlexReynard

Oh, I'd definitely wager that Karl being cancelled now is fallout from the Dream vids. Someone that popular, there's going to be deranged fans who refuse to believe he cheated, and if there's no way to escape from that unwanted fact, you go after whoever brought the truth to light. And the kind of emotionally-immature person who can't handle having their illusions shattered about their idol is the kind of emotionally-immature person who fights with backstabbing rumors.


freeMilliu_2K17

Er... no. Hell, even the stans liked Karl's 2nd vid of Dream. You might be on a weird side of the internet but I've never seen a stan who hates Karl after the 2nd vid, nah the hate is more on the anonymous mod developer. Edit: I also would like to add There were little to no reactions that I've observed from stans either during the first vid. It was ignored by the more toxic part of the community and only became the topic again after tbe 2nd vid, and like I said, I've seen Twitter's response. They either didn't watched it OR they agree with the part defending Dream. So I have no fucking clue how you connected Dream to this besides my post which again, I didn't intended to be used as a way to drag Dream into this. I am merely observing the change of opinion starting from the first video up to the controversy. Bruh, I'd argue those who hate Dream disliked Karl more for slightly defending him in the 2nd vid so if there is hate (which I'm not saying there wasn't) it mostly comes from folks who disagreed with Karl's final conclusion. But that's assuming, I'm not saying disliking Karl's final verdict in the 2nd vid makes you a hater or something. But yeah, I don't know what else to say buddy.


AlexReynard

For one, I defer to you having WAY more knowledge of this topic. >Bruh, I'd argue those who hate Dream disliked Karl more for slightly defending him in the 2nd vid Jesus. That sounds more insane and yet more plausible. I have definitely seen people get more upset at allies than enemies, because showing any kind of grace or forgiveness to "them" is seen as a betrayal. Online is fucked.


Ht7O9

Yeah, Jobst's discord messages being leaked= doubt of Dream's speedrun being unintentionally cheated. (Maybe) Sadly that is how the internet works. You will be remembered for something infamous.


freeMilliu_2K17

Correction, I actually didn't noticed anybody mentioning Dream in the 3rd post about his Discord leaks besides people mentioning they discovered Karl through his Dream videos. As of now, those two controversies are completely separate for now, ESPECIALLY since Karl has an established audience far older than Dream's. They have other things to worry about besides Green Block Man you know?


Ht7O9

I put a maybe.


simonjones2006

Not good enough, enjoy your downvote 👋👋👋


Alvaro_Rey_MN

Based


freeMilliu_2K17

Alright. Still, I personally think it would be silly to equate what he's like as a person to the findings he had during the Dream Drama. I'll still cite his 2nd video as the best source for the entire Timeline of that controversy just cause of how well presented and unbiased it was for most of the drama, besides the of course conclusion he has in the end, which to be completely fair, he presented as an opinion so folk don't have to 100% agree with him on that. Either way, it's interesting how different they take Karl now compared to just 8 months ago, so we'll see where this goes.


silvershadow014

>Sadly that is how the internet works. You will be remembered for something infamous. its so sad he'll be remembered... for being a racist? id say its pretty fitting lmao


BookSneakersMovie

*before the leak obviously* Antis: Karl jobst said Dream cheated so he must have cheated!! Me: But Karl also said it was an accident Antis: … Antis: Dream cheated Dream bad guys!!!1!!


silvershadow014

I mean, to be fair... The cheating conclusion was based on incredible odds and data analysis. There were multiple papers written proving the chances of it happening to be astronomical. The "accident" argument was Karl pulling out "just trust me bro they're credible" and his own personal opinions. That being said, I agree that it was probably an accident- but let's not act like they're comparable situations.


BookSneakersMovie

No I get that, it’s just they were acting like “Karl jobst said it so it MUST be true, how dare you argue with my lord and savior Karl jobst” then the second he says something they don’t like it’s “who’s Karl again? Lol”


freeMilliu_2K17

This isn't referring to just the Speedrun sub, but it is kinda funny how much folks adored Karl's First Dream Video when let's be real here... It didn't really added much new information in terms of the investigation. I'd argue it's not that good of a video and was rather hyped cause it was Karl. HOWEVER I will still refer to his 2nd Dream video as the best source of info about everything that happened just cause of how thorough it is. I am not saying you have to agree with him, but it did the job better of "ending" the drama way more than his first vid ever did. Hell, as of now only folks who didn't followed the drama and those who already dislike Dream for various and possibly valid reasons are the only ones still hung up about it. The fucking Speedrunning Java Community has moved on with their own bigger problems like that one about that Mod that turned out to be a predator. They can't keep focusing on the Dream thing when 1. Dream had left and for the most part left their community alone and 2. He was mostly forgiven already. So yeah, Karl may or may not be a good person but it'll be silly to dismiss his well presented 2nd video on Dream just cause he turns out to be not so amazing after all.


silvershadow014

oh yeah some people were like that lmao