Yeah, this gameplay loop is lost on modern games. I feel the itch for *new* content on pretty much all online games, but not Diablo...it's weird.


It’s just lost on gamers. If some shiny achievement isn’t blasting your ears off and obliterating your retinas every 30 seconds to congratulate your over taking 5 steps, then a game is boring. Developers chase profits. D2R sales and playtime will undoubtedly impact decisions. If they’re low, blizzard will continue with the candy style D3. If they’re decently strong, maybe D4 will be a bit better.


More people need to wake up and realize this fact. We, as consumers should vote with our wallets. We need to stop buying V-bucks for our kids, stop fueling anti-consumer tactics and give us some quality gameplay.


> More people need to wake up and realize this fact While the rest of us sheeple are waking up, consider the fact that D2 is very old game with dedicated small playerbase and after the initial hype is over, D2R will be the same. There is a reason games evolve over time. But I understand it's hard to think beyond the "hurr kids dumb and fortnite bad, I play the real games" mindset.


My point was not that fortnite is bad. My point is that you get what you pay for. If you’re fine with buying a new skin for $10-20 be my guest. But if you’re willing to spend your money like that don’t be mad when it starts creeping into everything. Diablo 3 was built entirely around the AH as a means to monetize a game that we already paid $60 to play… this is an anti-consumer tactic that ruined what could have been a fine game. My point is that we as consumers should value our currency and stop giving it away for bad products.


Diablo 3's problems went waaaaay beyond the RMAH.


Maybe if you only played at launch. It turned into a really good game.


I tried playing in the month leading up to D2R. Still meh.


>There is a reason games evolve over time. It's because AAA gaming is more or less lead by sales people and psychologists. It might be a bit of a "hurr durr big game company bad" comment, but it's essentially true. Large corporations are *very* good at finding out what makes the most money, and that is not the same thing as creating the best product in most cases.


not really. they wish they were very good at finding out what makes the most money, because often it seems to be a damn fluke when something that "can't miss" does. Do you actually work for large media corporations?


Agreed. Yep, there is a reason. New research around the psychology of customer behavior and how you can use it to monetize. Shiny lootboxes and prizes. Unfortunately, this benefits the companies, not the players. If the masses buy crap products more because they are addicted to them, does it make it a better product? No, it just makes them more money. And, until we use our wallets to convince them to produce better games, why would they? Take games like Madden, if they can charge 60 bucks + for the same game and focus on stuff that makes them money because people still buy this is the quickest route to recurring revenue. Minimum investment, maximum profit. Turn games into SaaS products. And gaming has turned into the 2nd most lucrative industry behind porn. Games are now crafted for profit and profit alone. Dumbed down with quest markers and easilly discoverable crap to appeal to the largest audience possible. Not art. Also, this is called a minimum viable product, only you never make use of additional resources and feedback to improve it, because it already sells. And make no mistake about it, it doesn't sell because it's good, it sells because people are addicted to opening gold packs. Re colors of things - why do you think casinos use the same colors on slot machines? Color pallet is the same in Diablo 3. Diablo 2, not so much. Because the people who made it then, cared about making a good game. Diablo 3, they started to milk monetization everywhere.


You underestimate they people who stopped playing altogether because of the fortnite trend. I didn’t play d2 for years and yet I’m here again. The most played games in the world have a competitive esport background with cosmetic microtransactions, d3 was at no Point in time among them


No such thing as real games. All games are games. But some are fucking terrible and toxic. Like Fortnite.


Fortnite BR is actually an example of my main point (above the person you responded to) Easy to learn, hard to master You get what you get (even if the prices are a bit insane) No crazy achievements every few steps Not completely hand holdy, but does enough to get you going Etc I attribute Fortnites success to mostly cleanly stepping away from the insane trends. I don’t know why that person is stepping away from Diablo. I just don’t want candy Diablo for Diablo 4 again. Diablo 3 was a prime example terribly following trends while also losing your games identity. There’s good and bad trend following. Diablo 3 was a bad (though it has its own charm, it just doesn’t have that Diablo 2 lasting charm).


I was like u,until I tried project diablo or path of Diablo. That system make game even more beautiful.


What if i told you, a 2nd expansion was planned? With a 6th act and a new class if i recall


Lol they aren’t adding a new class or a 6th act. New class, so when you go to legacy mode your shit just breaks? Same for new act but the reason why they wouldn’t add an act is because……Diablo 3 exists! And lore exists and a story already exists. WTF are they going to add in? Lol


I agree that act 6 won’t happen. But Diablo 3 is 20 years later so they definitely could add stuff if they wanted. Hell all of Diablo immortal is going to be between D2 and D3. Not that I want to play a mobile game just making a quick point.


Except for pretty much any modern arpg


Welcome! You’ll learn something new everyday. 20 years and I’m still learning. It truly is a masterpiece and no one gets it until they sit down and dive in.


We are on the same boat, 20 years😇 still learning


The same here: 20 years of history and always appears a new detail to note and learn!


I’m 20 years in and I’ve forgotten some things and learn new things too


The thing I have always loved about Diablo games is that I can pick it up and put it down at any time. It’s not like world of Warcraft where playing the game is a 4 hour+ commitment


World of Warcraft doesn't have to feel like a time commitment but unfortunately 95% of the game is unfun so grinding to get to the 5% of stuff that manages to be fun ends up feeling like work


Yeah it's more of a "shit where did the last 4h go, I had to do X but forgot"


Once you get to farming you can maybe put it down. But I like to play it slow with full clears of zones. It is almost perfectly built that waypoints are in the middle of the zone and before quitting you should just go and get the next one. Only points that allow quitting is change of act and places where after quest you change the exit out of town


That's a choice more than a necessity, though. You can stop if you need to without losing much of anything, unlike an MMO when you're in the middle of a raid.


I don't know this put it down feeling you're talking about. Just one more run. One more. Maybe Meph will bless me with some good loot. One more run. It only takes a minute. Just one more.


D2 LoD was the sole reason I started to get some Cs in High School. Not because I didn’t pass the tests, but because homework was 30% of my grade. Diablo ate my homework, ma’am.


“Nothing but death can save homework from me” -Diablo, Prime Evil and Lord of Terror


Haha. Diablo really was a grade destroyer. Even my super studious Asian bros were slippin. Such an addicting game.


Literally the same. Aced every test and project, got Cs due to stupid homework weighting haha.


I played plenty of Diablo, Torchlight 1&2, Titanquest etc and have been playing ARPG's ever since. I honestly thought D2 would be a short hit of nostalgia and then all the outdated mechanics would annoy me... they haven't. I'm hooked. Even though it doesn't have a fraction of the goodies that modern ARPGs have, or the speed and flashy explosions of PoE. The core gameplay to me has really proved itself just as amazing as its reputation to be able to hook me again after 20 years of playing arpg's that have tried to incrementally improve on it.


the itemization and overall character progression are *so good*


For me it is the fact, that you can find a low level item with just the right roll (looking at you +skills ammys) that will be on your char for a long time and is worth something when you no longer need it and you can trade it for a similar item for a different class you want to play. And then all the background mechanics. I just wish we could see item level and not have to guess it.


I think this is similar for me but for a different reason; because drops are scarce, you actually feel like getting something good is special, even if you can't use it. It encourages you to stash cool shit and create a character later who can use that stuff. I never could get into ARPG's like D3 where you'd find a unique and 3 set pieces every time you logged in. I want that gold item name on the ground to make me sit bolt upright when I see it, even at low level - found a Pelta Lunata on my A1 normal Zealot tonight and even though it's just an okay low level shield I got super pumped for it just because it was my first unique in 15 levels.


I just cube 3 rings into an ammy or 3 ammy into a ring in a cycle until i can get a gg accessory. Found my +1 to skills ammies this way.


Can someone translate this for me?


You can place three rings or three amulets inside the cube and transmute them and it will turn them into one of the other type of item.


That’s what it is for me. The amount of items, the depth of character progression. The fact that you can find something in act 1 normal you keep with you for the long haul, and how every piece of gear can make such a difference in progressing vs being stuck. It’s just perfect.


Yep, this. The itemization is just genius in D2. In D3, you can't find anything good (and I use the term good in D3 lightly) until max level. In D2, you can walk out of the rogue camp at level 1 and find gear that will last you 90 levels. It makes playing new characters fun instead of a chore.


Same here! I was more than happy to fork over $40 for a nostalgia trip, but I’m as hooked as I was 20yrs ago *”I put hundreds of hours into this game when I was 18, I doubt I’ll do that now.”* Oh lord how wrong I was lol


Same. I played for 5 hours straight tonight and upon logging off, though "I have made a mistake in buying this". Not because my nostalgia sold me on something I didn't really want, but because I actually forgot how enjoyable this game is to me in the first place and how much time I spent on it. I don't have half a day to play games anymore like I did when I was 11-12 when it released, but here we are lol


Yep, I sit down to do “just a quest or two” or “farm one level” and then it’s 3am and I’m starving 🤣 I think D2R is secretly a time machine to 20yrs ago lol


I never gave PoE a real shot, maybe 5 hours of game time. The thing that pushed me away when looking at gameplay videos is it just looked like combat was on fast forward. D3 was like this as well. It’s like CoD vs Tarkov. I appreciate the slower paced stuff where you think about each encounter.


Explains why I like D2, Titan Quest, Grimdawn, and Last Epoch. The gameplay is slower but it feels good as hell. Generally speaking, I don't care about "speedrunning" aRPGs.


Aw man now I might have to play titan quest again, it’s been years. Damn you for that i don’t have time for this stuff anymore lol


Titan quest actually had two additional expansions released for it recently. I picked them both up and have not played them yet tho.


Last Epoch is so good. Love what they've been doing.


They tried to slow Poe down and the community hates it. My issue with Poe is the damn skill tree and the stupid gem linking.


Well they cultivated a playerbase that liked the fast paced gameplay. There's definitely a market for slower ARPGs but it's tough to change an existing game and get people to like it. I personally didn't like the *idea* of how fast it was but one day I just let myself enjoy the game for what it was trying to be and I had fun


It's just overcomplicated for the sake of saying it's deep. Meanwhile 80% of skills and currency is just redundant.


this is not why it is not liked. they made the players clunkier via mana and made the monsters faster.


I can't stand the zoomed-in camera angle, feels so claustrophobic


Yeah, it's crazy how many modern ARPGs in this style are fun for a little then they kind of trail off and lose me. I think a lot of it has to do with how Diablo, especially the first two games, are easy to play but have a lot of systems/mechanics to learn and get the most out of. It also helps that the game world itself has this very distinct atmosphere even down to the UI. Honestly it's a bit of a lost art in other games like this. Everything from the artistic direction to how the text on items carries this appearance like it is from an old grimoire does so much to pull you in without even realizing it. It's crazy how all these years later I still remember how most of the Paladin auras sound when activated. Call it being a nostalgic fanboy, but having played PoE and Grim Dawn, those games are good... but Diablo I and Diablo II just hits different. I can put those other games down after a few hours, it's not so easy with Diablo. The recent bags forming under my eyes can prove it.


It helps that Diablo didn't have to keep adding new crap to keep players. Now it seems an expectation that an arpg will keep adding new content and after you kill a few gods the power creep and finding bigger enemies and shinier loot leads to your grimdark game looking like a rave party. PoE started off similar to the pace and atmosphere of Diablo and just got a bit more ridiculous with each update . With Grim Dawn the world just feels boring to me. The skill system and items seems like it does everything right but I just can't stay interested


It was the lack of any noticeably cool EARNABLE loot for end game that did it for me. End game PoE character that doesn’t spend $40 on a single set of cosmetic armor (yea actually $40 for one set of armor or cosmetics) looked like they crawled out of the mud.


This really bugs me too. I love how scrappy you look in PoE early on, but you never gain any degree of cohesion in your character's gear. Then the MTX armour is super flashy, and I just want to look normal, not be a walking rave party.


> Even though it doesn't have a fraction of the goodies that modern ARPGs have, or the speed and flashy explosions of PoE That’s one of the best parts about it. D3 and even to a bigger extent POE are a clusterfuck visual wise. Like it’s really horrendous. Also game speed is way better in D2.


I just love that this as an ARPG where you pick your class and you're thrown into the gameplay loop instantly. Quests guide you on a general direction of where to go but your choice around that is endless within the loop. Stats and Skills you pick as you level and I'm sure that once you've played the story you can probably load into new classes, pick a build and run through with a general idea. So many modern RPG's instantly let you pick a class, gender, you can customise every detail and then on top of that you have to distribute skills at the creation menu as if you know wtf you're doing. To me more ARPG's need to be the way Diablo 2 is.


The change of pace from POE back to the slow, methodical combat of D2 has been soooo refreshing. Maybe it's just cause POE burned me out. But I am just loving playing d2 on PC with a controller. Which is so weird to say lol


This is my first diablo game. It's super fun but dang is it confusing.


I'm learning stuff 20 years later. Don't think you need to know everything now. Experiment. You don't need to be doing d clone with your first character lol. Game is awesome and I'm glad new people are getting to experience it. All you gotta do is press G to see what we've been playing for 20 years. And you if we were playing *that*, it had to have a good gameplay loop.


Yep. As frustrating as it is on principle, a big appeal for my early D2 days was screwing up builds and gear a ton and having to learn from it. It has a ton of nuance that you really have to think through as you go, especially with attribute and skill points.




It has i think


Plenty of YouTube videos out there to help!


You are learning young padawan! Its funny because I’m literally witnessing all my d3 fanboy friends brains break as we play through this game. Been telling them for years and now its finally paying off lol


How have they been enjoying it?


They are addicted lol… just mind blown learning about runes and rune words and them liking countess runs lol


There have been handfuls of D3 fans posting "oh, now I get it" on the various subs the last couple of days. Now they understand why we were upset with D3. It's just incomparable.


I’m honestly loving it. Not in a I told you so way but a you see the light now brother kind of way.


Bro I swear, It's more addicting than Crystal Meth. Maybe I should try a combo.


Crystal meth is actually a synergy for d2.


That sounds awful, where would someone be able to locate some of this so I can avoid it.


hypothetically asking for my friend




Sure are. Currently going through a 5 year dexedrine addiction. One of my favorite things to do was pop some dexies and play Diablo. I’m quitting them now and going through withdrawal so I feel depressed and can’t even enjoy D2R right now. It’s sucks.




May as well be a god damn skeleton right now with the lack of food I’ve been eating on my last 5 day binge 😂 It sucks D2 had to come out right when I decided enough is enough because I just don’t have the desire to play. Guess I just have to wait til my dopamine is back to normal and I can enjoy games without those evil orange pills anymore haha. Thank you for the kind words.




You too!


IAS (Increased Addiction Speed) breakpoints are much more aggressive for ADHD characters


D2 and coke is hella


what about +1 to Crystal Meth item skill affixes, does that still synergize


I think you meant Crystal Meph


I just love when I only have a short while to play, I'll do some countess runs or a couple mf runs to pass the time quickly. There's always something to work on or towards your characters development.


glad you are having a good time!


I've legit made more friends and talked with more people in the past two days on the remaster than I have in years playing WoW which is an MMO.


Today I started playing. I wanted to clear just one small area quickly. I've almost cleared act 1 while doing "just one more small area".


100% agree I found out about Diablo 2 years after its prime, but could never get into it as it didn't/doesn't like modern hardware very much in my experience. Couldn't get into Path of Exile which I've seen many people laud as the spiritual successor of Diablo 2. However I did like Diablo 3...but I pretty quickly got bored of the entire gameplay loop being: -Run into giant mob of enemies without fear of death -Press all your buttons for awhile -Everything's dead and loot is EVERYWHERE So coming to Diablo 2: Resurrected and (so far) having a really cool aesthetic and a somewhat slower gameplay loop that is (again, so far) far more toned down and calculated? like it's not brainless mass mob killing. That's what I've been wanting from an ARPG for years, something I didn't get from Path of Exile, Torchlight, or Diablo 3.


Welcome to the club. What class did you roll?


I'm playing a paladin. I know nothing about builds so I'm just brute forcing through everything.


Zeal/Fanatacism or Conviction/Vengence are solid builds. I. Fucking. Love. Paladins.


Yep, Zealadins are great. Once you get great gear to pass on, Hammerdin, but Zeal is the way to start. Maybe with the cold aura, I remember running one of those once upon a time. Satisfying to make everything literally shatter into a million pieces.


If you haven't watched the carbot d2 videos...dudes got pallys down pat.


18 years ago this was my jam. I used all classes and only finished up to Nightmare. Granted I was only 12 yrs back then. It’s my mission as a 30 yr old dad to beat HELL this time around.


This time I actually paid attention to the story and watched the cutscenes and it made it so much more fun to play. I love the remaster. I love being able to see.


So, as someone who really enjoyed D3 and has zero nostalgia invested, is it worth it to give this a shot?


Don’t worry just keep playing and mess around with skills and runes. When you get to 70 look at builds you may like, read about the build and then work towards that you’ll be grand! ARPGs or dungeon crawlers are the business!


It is a slot machine but with A LOT of extra steps You start with Diablo II and end up on a trip to Las Vegas


Expelled from school for skipping to much to play Diablo


Diablo 1/Diablo 2 are the perfect storm of atmosphere, gameplay loop, and music.


Diablo 2 is hands down the most addicting game of all time. Without question. That’s my opinion. I don’t even fucking like it and I haven’t been able to stop for 20 years lol


ONLY four hours? What did you do, install it at 10PM and needed a couple hours sleep before going to work at 5AM? Yeah, this be the shits. It'll be nice when they get some of the bugs worked out and you get a full day off!


i don't know why you're getting downvoted for this, you're clearly being playful.


Happens man. Some players are working at playing so hard that they only have time to read the first dozen words before they slap an up or down button.


Lol sounds like me with the loss of time today.... I got off work today and fast forward 4 hours and I have to go to bed early due to having to work early tomorrow for 10hrs. I didn't do anything today after work but play then bed after I finish eating in a minute lol.


Other way around for me. This game was the greatest when I was young, but 20 years later the grind feels too repetitive now. Funny how that works.


When D3 came out I had recently been hired to my first corporate office job. I stayed up real late one night gaming and slept thru my alarms. New boss was pissed when I rolled in 2 hours late. That’s right, Diablo almost cost me my job.


I don’t get it. What is all the fuss about this game? I just played D3 a couple months ago and had a good time while it lasted, heard nothing but great things about D2. Where is the addiction? I’m sure it’s nostalgia for a lot of people but I’m running around as a barbarian just clicking on really weak dudes with annoying overlay map and never finding any gear. Any progression I make, I’m just kicked from the server and have to go back to the camp. I’m not having a very good time so far and I really want to. I guess I just don’t understand the skill tree and all that stuff. I can’t get to the dark wood because I get disconnected every time I’m in the underground passage or just after I come out of it. Maybe the barbarian is just boring because these skills are trash lol. I feel like I’ve put several hours in already but I just keep re hashing the same things over and over because of server issues.


Sounds like a server issue and not a game issue


Barbarian is unfortunately not a very enjoyable character without gear, melee in general is rough. If you are hellbent on playing melee, a Paladin with holy fire might be more fun in the beginning!


A lot of nostalgia but people consider it generally better than d3. I don't know where the differences really are or how it ends up not being the same in the end but at least my understanding is that they don't have sets which multiply damage or a skill or two by 25000% so you're not forced into curated builds basically with them. Disconnecting is a connection issue though. And if you liked everything d3 offered you'll probably see this one as a bunch of confusing or nonsense because it uses older skill tree style builds rather than just unlocking everything.


You should try out double swing barb. Just remember to have enough attack rating and 2 decent weapons. I recommend maces. Buy some from Charsi and put some gems that adds damage, and you'll be good for a while. Can't help you with the servers though...perhaps start offline?


Thanks, I’ll give that a shot later tonight!


Sorry you are having server/game issues dude :(


If you've never played before and you're having server issues, why not play offline? I'm running offline for now and it's smooth as butter. Barbs are really good for farming late game, though I don't find them particularly interesting to level up. I really like the leveling progress with Necros as you watch your army grow and grow. Trapzins and Fire Sorcs are fun to level with too, for me anyways.


Is the offline segregated like it used to be in Diablo ii? Offline characters could only play online on open bnet with other open bnet characters. Or is open bnet no longer a thing?


>Is the offline segregated like it used to be in Diablo ii? Yes it is. Open bnet is also not a thing any more so offline characters are only offline. No multiplayer play at all.


I am so amazed that they changed so little and yet the game is still so solid. I get it too!


Yes basically, depending on how much mana I use in a fight I'll slot stuff accordingly so put like 1 or 2 rows of mana potions in your belt and adjust accordingly. Also, health/mana potions are over time and rejuvenation potions are instant so for emergency when things get harder or you may know you are dealing with a rough area you can slot those in your belt. (If you combine 3 of em in the cube it'll make 100% health/mana instantly when used) . Finding gear that has +to mana after is very helpful. You can also use a Nadir helmet (2 slot runeword) with nef+tir in it and that'll give some helpful stats


Welcome to the 1990s.


I've been trying to fix my sleep schedule for months after and I kept failing. Who would of thought I just needed D2R to fix it in 1 day lol


Diablo 2 lod is the best arpg by a country mile idgaf what anyone says it won’t change my mind. Ggg tries to immitate this game for a reason


As someone who never played Diablo3 as kid or adult, until now, I concur. I am now an adult kid. I am so glad I waited until technology progressed beyond Pong. Although I miss Centipede and paying $.25 at the 7-11 to play a game.


Moo Moo, Moo Moo-moohmoo


There's definitely not that much to learn, diablo 2 is really simple if you compare it to any modern hack and slash. But the rest - yeah, that's kinda what it is and was and will be.


Regarding learning, I'm struggling a bit with runes - when to use them, what to use them on, how in the world people know recipes, etc.


We google them. Runewords are the same in old Diablo. Just make sure you use the right item base. The real depth is in crafting, how drops, treasure classes, monster levels and such work, but I wouldn't bother with it until you get a real hang of the game. It's basically easy to learn, hard to master. Lots of small details make it quite in depth.


Makes sense. Yeah I never had the expansion as a teen so never used runes! Looks like a two socket staff plus two easy to find runes will get me a great fire staff for my wake of fire assassin!


Look for a 4s crystal sword or broad sword and 2 socket helm or similiar stuff with low requirements (str or dex). The spirit runeword for a weapon or lore for a helmet are great. Rhyme for a shield (2s boneshield) is a nice starter for casters. Insight is a 4s polearm runeword for your merc. Bit harder to get but a massive game changer.


Thank you! That polearm sounds great because I've noticed my act 2 Merc kinda rules! So different than D3.


Totally unexpected until nightmare, I had a Sol drop yesterday in Act 4 normal, it's been smooth all around that I'm waiting for the hammer to drop. I only had to run Countess twice and the second time she dropped both TalEth at once. Now just a good polearm for that insight..


Tir Ral - Leaf staff Talk Eth - Stealth armor Both 2 "gimmes" as to armor and items that should be used.


Thank you! By gimme do you mean relatively easy to find?


Yes as well as you should use Stealth on literally every character regardless and Leaf for any class using fire skills (fire druid, fire trapsin) . Super useful and not hard to get with a few countess runs


Thanks again. And sockets have to be exact, right? And staff = stave? I'm guessing if I mess up the recipe I lose the items...


Correct on all counts.


Thank you!


Not really that simple if you care about optimization and efficiency.


Compared to last epoch, grim dawn, titan quest even, because I'm not gonna be that cruel and compare grandpa to poe, yes - it is pretty simple. Really. Probably even the disaster that is wolcen is more complicated. It's 20+ year old game, give it a break, there are some nuances to it but it's really not that much