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The architect.


Followed closely by Miss Adveture


Underrated reply right here.


Those yellow bar Hive knights under the Cosmodrome.


Urzok the Hated could 1v1 any raid boss


Urzok vs Randal


Now that will be legendary




I could be completely wrong here, but wasn't Xol *letting* us kill him? And surely in his prime state with a genuine mission to destroy us, we'd have no chance? If that is the case, I'd say Xol. If not, probably Oryx or maybe even Atheon. Don't fuck with the VoG lol


Indeed. He knew they other wormgods wanted him dead and were looking for a way out. We had help from Rasputin and Xol was the weakest but yeah.. He could have defeated us 1 on 1. As a fireteam? Don't know


Although Xol is the weakest of the Worm gods, and Oryx killed Akka, so I'd assume Oryx is stronger than Xol.


Altho that’s theorized that due to the sword logic that akka thinking oryx couldn’t beat him…is the reason he beat him


Yup. It's been theorized it was just a fix to the general reaction to Xol's boss fight though.


The vex raid bosses are really overlooked here. Atheon could literally delete things from time OR banish them into the depths of time if it couldn't delete them, alongside having literal ontological weapons in the vault. While the sanctified mind could nuke things using darkness as a power source while needing to be overloaded with darkness alongside a lot of force, to just be DEACTIVATED, it's not even dead.


Problem with Atheon is that it's power is basically entirely limited to the Vault of Glass, outside of it it becomes a regular Vex Mind. Having said that, while inside, it is basically God. Sanctified Mind is very strong though, and possibly rivals Oryx in strength imo, we don't really have a power scaling on it since we don't know a lot about it.


I really wish they'd fully explain vex time travel honestly. Like if they just said its paracausal or that they can effectively create timelines via simulation OR if they are using worldline I'd get it but atm I'm not really sure how it works. Its kind of like how the MCU now has 3 types of time travel and I dont really get how they connect


We know it's not paracausal in nature since only the Vex that Worship the Darkness/Pyramids in the Garden even have the most remote connection to the Darkness at least. Us being paracausal is the reason the Vex can't accurately simulate/predict us (same way Quria could only simulate young Oryx/Aurash). I definitely agree they ought to explain the Vex's Time-Travel. Currently we assume they can based off the different models of Vex that hail from different points in time. But with how ignorant we are about most enemies in Destiny this could be POTENTIALLY proven wrong for all we know. We also need to get a better understanding of how Elsie has access to Vex Tech and seemingly infinite alt timelines or universes.


I feel like Elsie is mostly where I assume they tap into some sort of worldline. I think what REALLY confused things was Saint-14. Before Saint-14 we assumed that the Infinite Forest was a simulation engine and, while simulations could leave the engine in a way and were practically real, it wasn't time travel and they were still simulations that were effectively controlled by the Vex. Then, we had the Vault of Glass which existed on what I assume was some sort of inner worldline like the Pyramidion and that's where Vex time travel was BUT their whole goal was to push the time travel outside of the vault which is why it had to be stopped. With this being the rules, it was mostly ignorable and we could just say "smart robots" but with Saint-14 it implies that the forest can timetravel as well which seemingly negates...the entire vault.


The difference between the VOG and the infinite forest is that the Vex control ***everything*** inside of the VOG, whereas the infinite forest is essentially just a huge simulation engine. Inside the Vault the Templar and Atheon essentially can do anything. They can wipe you from existence, even if you're Paracausal, and make it so you were never born. Incidentally, that is the reason why Praedyth, Kabr and Pahanin were the only 3 we know of in the original fireteam to take on the Vault. There is a lore card somewhere in which a guardian is confused because the Vaults entrance should have taken more then just the 3 of them to get in, which suggests the rest of their fireteam were wiped from history. Bear in mind we didn't use the forest to save Saint-14. We used the Sundial, which allowed us the ability to truly travel in time.


The Infinite Forest is definitely a bit confusing under specific circumstances, but imo VoG is alot simpler. In the regular physical plane, the Vex seemingly CAN time-travel. They most travel through space (aka teleporting) but as far as we know they can move themselves along time. (Like chess pieces that can either move across the board, or to different boards altogether) But within the Vault, they can control/Move time itself. (Sorta like how in the MCU they accidentally pushed time THROUGH Ant-Man for example). Within the Vault they can dictate where other things move along the timeline INSTEAD of themselves. Issue is they can only do mess with the Vault's past, Present and future. Sure they also claim that they can "erase thungs from time" but that's the only part that dosen't 100% make sense, because while most who have entered we DID collectively forget about- others we didn't.


>But within the Vault, they can control/Move time itself. (Sorta like how in the MCU they accidentally pushed time THROUGH Ant-Man for example). Within the Vault they can dictate where other things move along the timeline INSTEAD of themselves. Issue is they can only do mess with the Vault's past, Present and future. Sure they also claim that they can "erase thungs from time" but that's the only part that dosen't 100% make sense, because while most who have entered we DID collectively forget about- others we didn't. I think I know what you mean, this kinda works with the idea that the vex see no real difference between the simulations and reality and that there goal remains the same either way. So for them going back and forth through time is effectively like traveling through a big simulation. Also perhaps the reasons some things are remembered and some are not is due to paracausality as it was Kabyrs light that allowed us to negate (no pun intended) the vaults effects. So with the sundial, how does that work? Wouldnt that mean Osiris effectively figured out the problem the Vex were having?


I think the reason we remember Kabyr is because he sorta BECAME a Vex (or more specifically the Relic within the raid) rather than actually being wiped from time. Praedyth also as far as I remember basically just hid inside the Gorgon's maze until he died without his ghost/sustinance. But at least one other is mentioned by name- and some of them still have stuff they carved into the VoG armor that they apparently made. As far as the Infinite Forest goes, pretty sure that all IS only a simulation. Saint just got lost/trapped inside by the Vex who were trying to sorta use him as a test-subject in reasearching HOW to properly KILL Guardians. If you recall the corridors of time, that was basically just a giant maze of looping rooms. Really when you think about it- that's all the Forest really is, just simulated looping rooms. Osiris had the ability to navigate the Forest, but didn't have full controll and couldn't find Saint inside of it (again keeping him and figuring out how to kill him was probably a BIG priority of the Vex at the time). The Sundial was Osiris's experiment to allow humans/non-Vex to time-travel, and it worked- but he still couldn't find a timeline or way to get Saint out if the Forest. If that dosen't make sense- also consider how basically Osiris AND Elsie both have said that WE basically didn't exist in any of the timeline's they had ever seen.


I get that but I just dont get how Osiris made time travel. Like, did he literally invent time travel and it just happens to be inside the forest?


He basically invented it by reverse engineering Vex tech. It works in-general, Infinite Forest isn't really necessary. But the point of it was to try to use time-travel to find Saint who happens to be inside the Forest.


MCU wise, it's all the same. The important thing is the consequences were for something in the past to change where the infinity stone is. Regarding the Vex, they **have** explained it, rather well imo, right [here](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/atelic?highlight=Fish+diving)


It’d be cool if we could get an explanation on the Sanctified Mind and the other Vex who worship the Darkness. Apparently, iirc, other Vex are actually *afraid* of that specific subset. That in and of itself is interesting.


Taniks =)


Taniks never dies


Tankis has no house.


He kneels before no kell


He has no legs.


Shaniks Perfected.


Shanks Perfected


Lightbearer Taniks


Taniks, Fallen Mind


God imagine Taniks with Conquerors haki


My name is Taniks D. Perfected. I’m gonna be the Pirate King. Wanna join my crew?


The homeless issue on Europa is becoming a massive problem


It's alright we slashed the homeless population in half after dealing with Atraks-1


Our guardian canonically beats up homeless people for loot.


Witch queen boss is taken taniks. He attacks with phalanx boops


Taniks is the Winnower.


Why not Scorn Taniks?


Taken scorn Taniks


Now that's some literal nightmare fuel. I can already imagine the final shape raid Boss being Nightmare of Taniks Perfected, The Taken Scorn Abomination


Wait... why are there no taken scorn?


Because taking "perfects" the thing that was taken, so a taken scorn would just be a taken vandal or captain. That's why you don't see taken dregs, they became vandals. Also scorn are basically reanimated corpses, and things that aren't alive can't be taken. That's why you don't see taken shanks or regular harpies.


But there *are* Taken Thrall, so does the Deep not consider an Acolyte to be a direct upgrade from a Thrall, even though the Hive's morphology does?


Based on the taken thrall lore card they are taken as thrall to fit a very specific purpose >What is your purpose? What law drives you? >To close with the enemy. To rend it. To move in great numbers, to cower when alone, to swarm when together. But you are predictable. Frail. You cannot pass through fire and shot. >You need to be elusive. https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-taken-thrall


Okay, so the Taken are the perfect form for their specific purpose. That's cool.


Under that logic, they'd all be captains


You'd think so, but vandals are taken explicitly as vandals as a slap in the face of the Fallen hierarchy >*Come out into the light. You will never be diminished again. No one will ever rebuke you with a blade.* >What Captain disciplines you? What obedience has been burnt into your lungs? >You do as your Captain commands. You wield the weapon you are given. You teach the Dregs and make sure everyone pays their share of the loot. But nothing is yours. You have no space to call your own. >*You deserve a place of safety. You deserve to be alone with yourself.* https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-taken-vandal It reads as if taking them and keeping them as a vandal is an act of charity


You see minotaurs, and hydras 🤔


But they alive though


Minotaurs and hydras have some alive stuff in them. Harpies don’t. ( I think, idk really)


Radiolaria is alive? Then why no taken fanatics


They are basically just deranged and corrupted goblins


Because they already have absolutely no fucks to give.


Taken scorn ASCENDENT Taniks


Since the body is left behind after exo creation, we could have scorn taniks team up with taniks perfected.


As I've said before: people think that vaulting Tangled Shore means the end to Fikrul, but he will be the boss of the raid and will continuously revive Taniks. The final encounter will have his invicibility phases as well Taniks' mechanics.


If we go by pure power then its no question. Oryx in its prime would wipe the floor with us. The thing is, we have been weakening him since dark below, by defeating his son, and his lietunants(and then daughters), we pretty much strip him by so much power that he could be defeated. But when it comes to actual threat level ? Atheon. Without the relic we would die right there, at the start of our journey. I mean getting wiped from the timeline itself must be more, than getting teared apart by Oryx right ?


Even then, after all that, we still only defeated him because he brought barely any of his fleet and we had to use the Light that HE had gathered, not us, to kill him.


Scorn snipers in last weeks nightfall. Felt like I was in trials.


Or the grenade throwers. Fuckers oneshot all 3 of us at once in one run in the final room, then the next one killed the two of us left standing with one.


Too many people overlook Atracks-1. An exo fallen utilising a subtype of siva to replicate herself and create an attack similar to the effects of critical siva density is already overwhelming powerful but she didn’t even get to harness stasis yet. If we didn’t stop her then Atracks would have had stasis, a paracausal force of darkness to weaponise alongside her other already powerful abilities and it wouldn’t stop there because more of House Salvation would undergo the process to become an exo and that’s more Atracks-1’s essentially. That type of power could take our place easily. I could see a fireteam of exo fallen with stasis taking on Oryx in our place, their power is too overlooked. Ir Yut, Deathsinger should be remembered more. Reversing the song of life to utterly destroy someone’s physical existence sounds so easy for how powerful it is. A choir of deathsingers once invaded a world targeted by the hive, it was only 20-30? Singers I believe but after a few hours of using the song they had caused apocalyptic damage to the planet and killed its people entirely. One or two deathsingers could wipe out the last city so uh…. Yeah I think they make a good claim for being one of the strongest we’ve faced. Insurrection prime in my eyes is the apex of pure, total destruction through non paracausal and non magical means. The wipe mechanic in cannon destroys the last city through nuclear means. It is a metal gear that lacks easy to abuse vulnerabilities. It is a mix of luck and coincidence that we were able to utilise black armoury energies to breakthrough Insurrections barrier, if the fallen had more time to fortify they would have definitely removed those pylons and scrapped left over tech so there’d be almost no chance of us winning. Only downside is yeah it’s only a purely physical, non elemental destructive force. No abilities, no soul power, no elements and no throneworld fuckery. It’s a big downside but does that outweigh the total force of its power? It’s easy to look at oryx and say oh yeah he was totally the strongest boy that ever lived but the instant he instated his tithe system was the instant he gave himself a major critical weakness. In his prime with his tithe system and court we could still kill him. We would do exactly as we had done before, kill crota, invade the throneworld and one by one we would dismantle his court. Him attacking us at his full strength wouldn’t change that. In the books of sorrow his wars lasted such a lengthy time that we would have plenty of time for a team of 6 to initiate a raid and take him out. Again in the book of sorrows, previous civilisations were able to gather intel and realise taking out important figures in the hive would cripple them severely and it is by that flaw that oryx shouldn’t be considered the strongest force we’ve encountered.


It a world of space magic boom pow stuff, it is very easy to overlook a good old fasioned nuke… but they are quite efficient


Mara tried using her fancy magic super weapon on the dreadnought, but the only thing that damaged it was some Cabal flying at ramming speed


Well she wasn't really intending them to do damage. They were part of her plan to survive dying, infiltrate his throne world, and steal his power.


Yeah, if i recall correctly, Mara using her super weapon was to take out as much of his fleet as possible and then bait Oryx into using his super weapon to finish off the rest of them. Amongst other reasons


*gets a StarCraft 1 flashbacks, where phrase ‘Nuclear Launch Detected’ made you shiver, unless it’s a your own nuke :D


I think we should nuclear bombard Nessus and arm Titans with Nuclear kamikaze armour. The time for mercy and negotiations are over.


Why does this sound like a good idea?


I feel a lot of people are forgetting Ghaul as well, there's a lot of big fish out there but Ghaul and the Red Legion did very nearly win, probably would have if it wasn't for the guardian getting the light back. Considering they made a machine to trap the traveller and cut off guardians from the light, and somehow pour that power into Ghaul letting him use the light, I feel that enough to put them pretty high on the list at least.


Literally the first 2 forces i thought of immediately when i read the title were Ghaul and Oryx. It could be a new light perspective since they removed the Red War campaign. Honestly, that sucks because I actually loved the Red War, and Ghaul very nearly ended all of us. He even had Zavala questioning himself.


Makes me kinda sad atraks was taken out and the facility destroyed. I really wantes exo fallen as a common enemy type.


Well if I remember right, it was never explicitly stated that Atracks-1 was killed 100%. We defeated her and all her replications but there was no body, not even a pile of scrap or broken nanites. I’ve talked to a few people and there’s a common thought that Europa will get a dungeon and encountering Atracks-1 or some fallen exo’s as bosses or combatants is possible.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it possible for Atracks-2 to exist? We killed the first but there could have been a backup maybe?


When it comes to exo’s and the whole 1 and 2 thing, transfers and backups, I really can’t say. I can’t even give a good theory because I can’t remember any good facts or myths about it. I don’t think it’s possible? Because when scanned the host brain dies so you’ve got -1 made but a -2? I am so unsure. Sorry, I swear I read something about this.


u/TheMattInTheBox I believe the number designation refers to how many times they’re rebooted and have their memory wiped, not how many bodies there are. As far as we know I think theres only one body per Exo. If that body trips and falls into a furnace theres nothing you can do, the Exo’s dead forever until a Ghost chooses to make a guardian.


I believe it is possible to make backups. We have proof of that in Banshee. When he was exo Clovis Bray, he and Elsie and a bunch of other exos in the Braytech facility had to fight off a full-scale invasion from the Vex forge-star portal that was there, and their bodies were destroyed over and over again until they reached the portal and shut it down. I don't remember exactly, but I can't imagine any other way to do it than to have a backup so that they could keep putting the consciousness into a new exo body.


You would be correct


Got it, thanks! Could Atracks be an exception, considering the whole replication thing?


I don't think having to eliminate such a mass of extremely powerful Hive just to weaken Oryx such that u are even able to hurt him is as heavy of a weakness as bullets; those things that Atraks, Ir Yut and Insurrection were weak to. I mean ik we had to use Armoury tech to disable Prime's barrier but I doubt it would have been otherwise indestructible - Guardians find a way, and that just happened to be the way we found. In his prime and with his armies organised, Oryx would have been literally invincible and demolished Sol w ease - there is no shot that the City or the Awoken would have had the same opportunity to eliminate his lieutenants as they did in canon. Crota alone demolished a thousand Guardians on the moon - we only beat him bc we basically crippled him in his sleep. And that's just little Crota, over whom Oryx was massively more powerful. Even crippled in King's Fall, u can't hurt Oryx by shooting directly at his heart; u can only stagger him, so I can't imagine you'd get far shooting at his armour in his prime. Hell, even in kf he was an absolute force of nature. He could wipe the fireteam w a simple quick prayer to the Darkness, even while the Guardians stood in an aura of immortality in which nothing else could do so little as scratch them. Atraks and company are cool and strong yeah but they don't hold a candle to a Hive deity who single handedly slew a worm god


In books of sorrow it’s told multiple times of how he was pushed back or at a temporary stalemate with opposing civilisations. He isn’t a instant apocalyptic threat that could destroy the system in a day or even a week he really isn’t on that level. I’m not saying bullets and firepower alone would kill him or his supplicants but combined with strategies we used in raids and Atracks-1’s Replicant siva would reach the same heights we did. The adaptiveness and endurance it could withstand is parallel to our dying, rezzing and getting back up again to fight. There’s a number of strong hive to kill before we take out oryx, yes but they’re isolated compared to him. They don’t require specific rituals and assaults to defeat unlike him. It’s exactly what we’ve done before and it’s what ancient civilisations predicted.


All the stalemates were before he gained the power to Take. Afterwards nobody ever even came close to stopping him, until he came to Sol.


Him being able to take is still not as big as threat as most people here believe. He still didn’t have clear wins afterwards and having a massive army doesn’t make him safe either. He could cover Sol in taken but still that critical flaw of his court tithing system exists. It’s mentioned in the books itself at how bad of a decision it was to create it! Not much else matters because of this and if he somehow found a different system or had a different nature then it would be a lot more threatening.


You're misremembering the Books of Sorrow. After Auryx became Oryx, he never came even close to losing ever again, until Sol. All he had were clear victories. He obliterated the Ecumene. He obliterated the Taishibeth. He obliterated Quria's incursion. He obliterated the Harmony. Challenging his system of tribute is not as glaring of a weakness as you are arguing. Galaxy-scale empires tried and failed. The entire Taishibeth civilization could not defeat those two invincible Knights from the Court of Oryx. Guardians were the first ever challengers to succeed. Without the Light, it would not have been possible.


If I remember right, those wars against the Ecumene and the Harmony didn't exactly end overnight. He was ultimately victorious, but he didn't just roll in and erase them in one fell swoop.


I'm pretty sure that's because they had spread to multiple star systems though


Yeah, but one of those two (I forget which) also had pretty powerful weapons of their own, which also didn't help. (It also doesn't help that the default unit of time in Destiny is "centuries.")


I feel like we’re just interpreting different things from the books and that’s what’s causing this misunderstanding. I have read the books very recently again but my memory is unstable so that could be a reason too. Ah how I wish I could do the kings fall raid in D2…


Isn't that the one coming back? Personally the drip of that armor is reason enough for me to want it back lol


While he I wouldn't agree that he's not an apocalyptic threat since has conquered thousands of civilisations, and only been beaten once (us, while sort of cheating), I would still say that he doesn't need to be one to be above Atraks or anyone else. It's rly no competition, Oryx had a greater capacity for destruction and was massively more difficult to kill than anyone else we've faced


He has lost before and had a couple stalemates. He’s not a warrior he isn’t capable of this destruction people perceive that he has. He’s a learner, a finder of secrets and knowledge and not a legendary master of killing. He is a god of death not because he gives death, but because he is so intertwined with the deep and taken that he’s become something that death will never truly erase which is showcased perfectly in Touch of Malice. The only “apocalyptic” thing about him is maybe the numbers of hive and taken he commands. Even his special throneworld weapon is limited in range and cannot specify friendly targets or not so there’s always collateral damage against his own forces. He is smart but god no he is not knowledgeable in the ways of war or fighting. If Xivu Arath came into our system instead of how Oryx did then we would have been fucked. Oryx always looked to Xivu for bravery and help even in their younger days.


While I think your attempt(s) to push that Oryx wasn't as powerful as we tend to think of him is a bit of a hard sell and I personally think he's not actually been overhyped in these discussions, I think it's cool to see the shoutouts to other powerful/ threatening foes from over the years. Just because Oryx is top tier (after the pyramids presumably) doesn't mean everything else is trash- There's plenty of extremely powerful enemies we've faced other than him, they just mostly aren't on *that* level. I'd like to throw Riven and Atheon into the list as well; Atheon because within the Vault (which is the only place they'd be) they're bordering on being a god and without the relic from a past failed raid team there's no winning that fight. As for Riven, I might just be giving bonus credit because she's an ahamkara and they're so messy with what they can do, but an Ahamkara is just about always a potential threat due to the backlash that can come from the wishes they grant, and the fact you can make wishes without intending to or even realising it.


Thank you for your words about me and talking about Oryx. I knew mentioning him might cause some unfriendly reactions but I mean I’m just trying to discuss stuff in a friendly day dreaming sort of manner. Nothing argumentative or super serious, just giving a piece of my perspective and it’s fun to pick apart lore like this. Really grounds everything. I sometimes struggle with processing conversations so I fear others may take my words in a more hostile manner than I intend. Ah Atheon and Riven, both so full of curiosities and I mean Riven is an Ahamkara like that alone is full of possibilities and power. She’s taken too, was part of Mara’s entourage and helped forge her throneworld. A powerful entity indeed but not just strength wise. Building, giving wishes, reality bending? So much potential for her to use. Atheon is similar, a pinnacle vex in the perfect environment for itself in the middle of timestreams. It sounds like such a daunting foe and If ANY opponent was ever overlooked too much then it’d have to be Atheon, even it’s boss music sounds super final and full of gravity like it tells me “what you do here will truly effect the entirety of the destiny universe”.


But we didn’t even do damage to oryx in the raid, we just got lucky some blighted light fucked him up


I feel like 6 replicants could still take our place. We didn’t do much direct damage sure, we unlocked the light from the blights to get the job done but nonetheless damage from us was still important.


Eh it more like we literally did 0 damage, if oryx didn’t go around collecting light to appease the corpse of Akka we would’ve had no way to hurt him


We stunned him a couple times when he attempted to commune with the deep and we even dealt the killing blow at the end by overwhelming damage through bullets. His chest/heart was completely exposed. As for the light for Akka, there’s other sources of light in the throneworld. Golgoroth had light to feed on in his lair, it’s just a wonder if that would be good enough to use in place of the light stored for Akka.


There's nothing to indicate Atraks was using SIVA in any way. We really ought to stop equivocating anything Fallen use with "SIVA". Can't just accept that a game mechanic doesn't have an explanation, it just is for the sake of a mechanic. They're just very savvy regarding technology, like how did Taniks hook up with a big booty shank? Its just the rule of cool.


Fallen *are* sort of the kings of kitbashing.


At first glance it looks like siva nanites. When a replicant dies, an orb is dropped, when picked up nanites swarm around the head similar to owl sector event in D1. It was either one or the black armoury founders or one of clovis’s family members I forget which but they worked on siva and had developed a subtype that is not the same as the standard siva we encountered. Never mind the fact that how on earth would these replicants even be possible without something like siva and why would it even be a surprise that siva is encountered in the DSC of all places? Is it really just purple space magic? Is it just special fallen who cares tech? There’s obvious leads here. I tried to find a thread made here long ago by someone that listed all definite proof that Atracks used siva but I can’t find it. Either because it’s 3 in the morning here or they deleted it but I’ll try again in the morning. We really ought to stop dismissing discussion despite the lack of proof to shut down one’s claims. Is it not fine to just have healthy discussion with no arguments? Seriously there’s a stick up everyone lately.


the entirety of house salvation is pretty overlooked honestly, they had our main rival, house devils, plus all of the other antagonistic fallen houses, plus STASIS, a power that came straight out of the pyramids, and all of the deep stone crypt and the exo factory. Not to mention an NUCLEAR SPACE STATION. they were hella strong and frankly beyond light did not do them justice.


At least they’re still kicking and a threat unlike House of Wolves who’re essentially erased from history. I hope Eramis isn’t actually dead and somehow returns or some force takes over House Salvation, they’re my favourite house and I love their story and aesthetic.


The vex raid bosses are really overlooked here. Atheon could literally delete things from time OR banish them into the depths of time if it couldn't delete them, alongside having literal ontological weapons in the vault. While the sanctified mind could nuke things using darkness as a power source while needing to be overloaded with darkness alongside a lot of force, to just be DEACTIVATED, it's not even dead. Sanctified mind absolutely destroys insurrection prime when it comes to power.


Atheon only really has that power inside the Vault of Glass.


So...? Hestill has it


Probably Oryx or the Black Heart. The Black Heart could corrupt minds and keep entire timelines from changing drastically no matter what Elsie did. It corrupted Uldren and, in the Dark Futures, several fireteams of Guardians. The current timeline is the only timeline the Black Heart was actually defeated and it still took numerous timeline resets and the greatest prodigy of the Light(Ikora said the Warlock Guardian’s mastery of the Light uneased her, Ikora of all people, safe to assume the same for the Titan and Hunter Guardian) to kill the damn thing. Compare that to Oryx, who died in every timeline. The Black Heart was worshipped by the Sol Divisive and had them as protectors. It could bring statues to life and empower them with Darkness. The Black Heart also had the ability to drain the Traveler from the Black Garden. Oryx was the Taken King and had armies. Oryx was kept in check by being greatly diminished by the deaths of Crota and his Court, not to mention being in the mindset of a vengeful father, not the Taken King. He would have been a greater threat if he was in his prime state, but his state during Taken King probably still would have been enough to kill Akka.


Any chance you could direct me to the source material for what Ikora said about the Warlock guardian? I'm very interested 😁


https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/the-stormcallers-path That was from D1, after unlocking Stormcaller. There was an audio version in D2 during the quest to get Stormcaller, before it was vaulted with the launch of Shadowkeep. Here it is: [0:39](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u4zFzYGQWYE)


Thank you!


Didn't we "kill" the black heart? What's this about Ikora?


Reread my comment. Our Guardian killed the Black Heart, they are the greatest prodigy of the Light. Ikora said the Warlock Guardian’s quick mastery of the Light uneased her, the same can be applied to the Hunter and Titan Guardian. I brought that up because it was proof that our Guardian was the greatest prodigy, as Ikora is considered one of the greatest Warlocks, was mentored by Osiris and yet found the Warlock Guardian’s quick mastery of the Light uneasing, which says a lot about how naturally gifted our Guardian is.


It's like what Mithraak said about The Guardian being able to enter the Vex world(?). We did it with such ease that it blew his mind, even when compared to other Guardians.






Rule 5: Keep it civil.


My bad bro








Rule 5: Keep it civil.


Apologies. here for lore so will stop being a dick. My bad.


That Golgoth guy in moon or whatever his name could take a lot of hits.


People Fucking sleeping on Randal the Vandal here apparently


Any overload captain.


Ghaul was the only enemy that we’ve ever faced that attacked our power at the source, and was nearly successful. By no means is Ghaul stronger than Oryx or even Crota but he came closer to defeating us that any else ever had. So I would say him.


We also technically didn't defeat Ghaul, the Traveler did.


I think our biggest foe is the architect, assisted by the stomp mechanic. Don't think there is a more deadly enemy in the whole game.


Remember koviks or Vosik, whatever his name was from that strike in d1? The guy who would instantly melt you if it was void burn that week? Fuck him, on void burn weeks he was the final shape.


The strike boss with the ogre? That was Koviks; Vosik was the first/second boss in Wrath of the Machine. And yeah, void burn weeks fuck that Nightfall.


That strike was so awful that I blocked out all memories of it except for backing out at the start


Strongest? Probably either Atheon or Oryx given that their wipe mechanic basically translates to "makes you not exist anymore." That's power. Worst? Fikrul, in The Hollowed Lair, every time he pulls that utterly bullshit immunity mechanic, stretching out a strike boss encounter to twice its length for no good reason at all. Runner-up for worst: The boss in The Pyramidion when a melt attempt goes wrong and it breaks his scripting so he just starts running around the arena completely invulnerable firing everywhere and stomping you and the only way to fix it is to stand very still and hope he doesn't destroy you.


Oryx, with his Taken would be a disaster if he was not stopped by Saturn.


Atheon was a pretty damn powerful threat in the VoG, literally erasing of from time itself is a power very few things can match, Riven is also up there for possible most powerful enemies, their wishes have no limits to my knowledge and I’m also pretty sure they know they’re in a game or that we exist


Most powerful in order would probably be Riven, Oryx, Quria, Atheon. The reason why I put Riven above oryx is only because the sheer potential of wishes that can alter reality if people thought big enough and had enough desire. The reason atheon is lower than everyone is for the simple reason his powers only work in the vault same as the gorgons.


I’m gonna be honest Quarias death was so small of a fight I completely forgot it existed


I thought it was pretty cool all in all.


It was cool but I expected so much more than a 3 minute boss battle


I mean they could have made that entire separate plane a dungeon but that would have thrown off the pacing of the season.


Oryx for metaphysical power. In accordance with the Sword Logic, Oryx was stronger than any of the Worm Gods and was thus beneath the Gods themselves. While his arrival in Sol led to a rapid decline of his tribute system, the impact he left even when being attacked from all sides is the sole reason so many things in D2 were able to occur. ​ In terms of physical strength, it'd have to go to Xol, Riven, or Insurrection Prime. I say Insurrection Prime since it's the biggest, original Brig and was armed with the most advanced Golden Age weapons and shielding. Xol is, of course, absolutely massive. Same with Riven, who also comes with a heaping dose of "whatever magic is necessary to defend herself". ​ Honestly, with the way Savathun's plot is going, she might actually end up as strong as Crota. Which, compared to us, Crota was weak as hell.


Didn’t Ghaul literally hold our powers captive and we got lucky to find shards or light throughout the ecosystem ?


I've heard atheon can't leave though? Unless he keeps sending out vex or the vanguard I'd dumb enough to keep sending gaurdians I don't see how in the long run he's super op


Most of it is the work he was doing in the Vault. They were looking for the perfect timeline in which the vex win and they are they final shape. If they would have found it we’d all be gone. So even though the Vanguard didn’t want people to go in there (I believe it was forbidden when Kabr’a fire team went in) something or someone was going to have yo stop him


The purpose of VOG was not in finding the timeline where vex win, but in harnessing the time-stream and edit the actual timeline that will lead to their victory respectively. The mind that was looking for the perfect outcome/timeline was Panoptes in the infinite forest through the possible timeline simulation. You are not wrong, but there is the reason why infinite forest exists right?) It would be weird if vex have like two different projects in reaching absolutely the same goal. If only Atheon could manipulate time outside of VoG hoho, it would be pure status:calamitous) guardians wouldn’t exist.


>If only Atheon could manipulate time outside of VoG hoho, it would be pure status:calamitous) guardians wouldn’t exist. is that true tho? i thought the only reason why we were such a pain in the ass to the vex is because we are paracausal and they cannot fully predict what we will do no?


If guardians were that untouchable against the vex, then the whole situation with Gorgons erasing even paracausal wouldn’t apply. It is not known how many guardians gorgons have erased in the vault)) Technically yes, vex by nature are idiots who cannot understand paracausality but why do you need to understand it, if you can just delete it lmao.


I take it's Riven, but she was trapped. A lot of these powerful enemies are faced in favorable conditions though. Oryx had been weakened, Xol allowed himself to be killed, Atheon was messed up by the Artifact (and its power is restricted at the moment to the Vault), and we haven't even seen Calus, who's probably at this point The Blob or the Leviathan itself. Insurrection Prime and the Sanctified Minds are up there with their destructive power though.


Hot take: Savathun is more dangerous than Oryx ever could be.




The Architects


randal the vandal


Randal the Vandal...


I still consider Oryx to be our worst enemy. Depending on how Witch Queen goes, she might take that spot. Oryx has caused so many problems for us. Even a lot of stuff Savathun has done wouldn't have been possible without Oryx. The Dreaming City curse? She used Riven, who was taken by Oryx. The Endless Night? She used Quria, who was gifted to her by Oryx after he took her. Savathun having the taken in general was due to Oryx discovering them, and us not taking the power for ourself after killing Oryx. So many of our enemies and challenges are byproducts of Oryx. Crota and all his shenanigans, the taken after Oryx brought them to Sol, Savathun coming to Sol (and by extension Xivi Arath). I'm not saying these things wouldn't have happened without Oryx, but with how things have played out Oryx was the catalyst for them, or at the very least expedited the occurrence of these events


Oryx and Xol tied for strongest. Xol was a piss easy fight but that doesn’t deny that he’s a worm god. Oryx was a hive god, and that speaks for itself. People overestimate atheon. Atheon only has any power in the vault, same goes with panoptes and literally any major vex mind trying to attack the city or timelines. Even then, with all this supposed power in the realm the vex have failed to prove themselves a true looming threat to the city. They don’t launch attacks on earth and they always have their plans get thwarted by guardians and rarely see success. The hive have much more success just in general, in battles and such. Hell, even the cabal have had more success than the vex ever had. Even if the vex do pose a direct threat to the city, it rarely takes much effort to wipe them out.


In my opinion it's a clear answer, Oryx. Oryx was so powerful IIRC he was the only entity named by the Winnower in Unveiling. Oryx was at a severely weakened state when we killed him after a year of grinding down his tithing structure. Along with a bit of bad luck for Oryx. By the time we arrived at the Oryx boss fight he was in a desperate state and was likely already in trouble trying to feed his worm. Even with Oryx in the most weakened state, we only defeated him by drawing the pools of collected light Oryx has gathered as a sacrifice to Akka's corpse. Then we used the light to make light bombs. It's honestly kind of a miracle we managed to pull it off.


The strongest propably Oryx, but Gaul captured the traveler, attacked the last city, took our light and became the power of a guardian for a Moment


Definitely Oryx or Xol. Even in his weakened state, Oryx was still supremely powerful. As it has been explained to me, Oryx still had the power of Akka.




D1 Y1 Taniks was the most difficult boss I have ever fought


Those invincible thralls on the Dreadnought


Cabal drop pods.


Blind thrall


Oryx no contest but to have more fun a lot of the vex bosses can wipe us from existence they just need very precise circumstances so that why oryx is stronger as mans can just say fuck off and kill us Fallen are laughable weak sadly Same with cabal the only threat would be Calus but he might be dead already Riven is part of the hive but also not so that dragon might actually be second after the hive gods


I feel like Aksis would be one of the most powerful enemies we have come into contact with. He is a fallen who became a machine god due to SIVA. His control over it can just rip guardians to shreds.


Well If include Savathun, probably her. But I think Oryx. Since the consequences of the Taken War still affect the story


Xol the wormgod, no one has been stronger not even close the only ones steonger are the ither wormgods and darkness Why? Because the wormgods are us but focussed in one while vex are the ither contender, the thrid primiordal force, they will never eb able to beat us




Turn Back


Savathun is stronger than oryx


That mini screeb in last week night fall, you don't know where or when it is coming, you can't hear a single sound of it. When you noticed it's present, you already dead.


Riven…one of the most powerful ahamkara Oryx couldn’t just take her he had to wish for it and even then the downfall of the wish was him losing(can’t really say died since his heart is in touch of malice and eris has it) She was able to put the dreaming city in a massive 3 week loop, create the dreaming city and create an entire race(scorn)