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Counterpoint: it is entirely realistic for a settlement and the region the settlement is in to share a name. Examples: New York city, New York; Mexico City, Mexico; Oklahoma City, Oklahoma; Kansas City, Kansas; Panama City, Panama; Andorra de la Vella, Andorra; Kuwait City, Kuwait; etc. The list goes on.

Got it; so Barovia City, Barovia. Like it, centurion, like it! :)

"Can you believe what that auschlander called our village?" "What, Barovia *Village*, like any other Strahd damned tourist?" "No, Barovia *City*!" "What a fucking hayseed! What a prime! I hope this whole plane gets rebooted again before I run into that!"

Well, we'll have to go discuss all that in Vallaki Township. 😁

It's not actually called "New York City." It's legally New York, New York. Outsiders call it City to differentiate. Locals call it Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx, Manhattan or that island near New Jersey. Source: I have a New York, New York address :-p

Yeah, I know that. I grew up in that state near that island; now I live in the home office in Grand Rapids. Whose got good hot corned beef sandwiches these days?

As a midwestern, you do. And much better Italian beef, no matter what they think out east.

Thumbs up for that Italian beef! --signed, another Midwesterner

Honestly, midwest food gets slept on.

It's because there's a lot of it and you get tired mid-meal.

I'll never forget my sister going to the first big family meal with my Italian stepfamily. She thought the meal was over after the first course of pasta and sauce and salad. Then, Nana brought out the Italian beef and rolls, lasagna, 3 different vegetables, a jello mold, sliced Italian bread, chocolate cake, a platter with 3 different kinds of cookies....

https://youtu.be/iZfxmDDfGio?t=60

You’ll never hide the fact it’s really some old Hamsterdamn, where people are only happy when some Big A**le’s ball drops in frigid mid winter and someone blows a load of litter so large the street cleaners have to wade through their piles.

Lol, no one from here goes to that.

Nah you’re pimping it though

Oh sure, how else would we get tourist money when it's awful cold, days after Christmas and midnight?

I don't think anyone was disputing the realism. The issue is the confusion it can cause.

Couldn't that confusion be cleared up with just one sentence?

I did similarly - Officially it's still just "Barovia" in my game, but it's generally just referred to as "Little Barovia" by the locals.

Fun fact, even though there is a Kansas City in Kansas, the bigger Kansas City that most people know of with the baseball/football team is actually just across the boarder in Missouri.

Yes, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t confusing and difficult to talk about while playing.

funnily Kansas City is actually in Missouri

There is a kansas city, kansas. It's basically the same large metro area but split by the state line. The city was founded before the state and both were named after the Kansas river.

This is what I said too.

I think things like this make the world feel real. Because this stuf happens in the real world too and you're like "why did they ever name it this way, that's so inconvenient". But that's the way it is.

I wasn't aware that this caused confusion.

If you're a stickler [on titles](https://www.reddit.com/r/CurseofStrahd/comments/i6e1mv/how_to_address_count_strahd_von_zarovich_and/), it's an annoyance, because you end up with Count Barovia (for HRH Strahd, ruler of Barovia County) and Baron Barovia (for His Lordship Ismark, ruler of the Village of Barovia). If I run the game again, I'm changing the village name to Kolyanovo to be more in line with the village naming system used by the baron/esses of Vallaki and Krezk and for my convenience in differentiating the Count and Baron without having to do a long explanation on titles that most DMs and players probably don't care about.

Kolyanovo is a great name! Wished I thought of that before running my CoS campaign :(

I wish I had, too, lol. I'll name the town Kolyanovo or Kolyani in any future playthroughs. When Count Strahd held an investiture ceremony to install Ismark as Baron, Ismark asked permission to rename the village Ravenov in honor of Count Strahd's mother. That solved my problem, and when the group saw how touched His Lordship was by that request, it let my party see a chink in Count Strahd's armor.

Well, being even more of a stickler for titles, Ismark Kolyanovich and Dmitri Krezkov are Burgomasters, the only Baron in the module is Baron Vallakovich, who simultaneously holds the position of Burgomaster of Vallaki. There is no Baron Barovia because the Village of Barovia and Castle Ravenloft are Strahd's personal manor. Edit: You could also say that Krezk isn't a barony because it's property of the Abbey of St. Markovia, since most Medieval Abbots served the same purpose as lords by owning land in the name of the church.

Dmitri and Anna are called nobles, and on page 156, the caption in their picture gives them the title of Baron and Baroness. For the sake of consistency, in my game (and in the guide), anyone ruling a town or village has the rank of baron or baroness. I didn't want to introduce yet another rank, burgomaster is a job function and not a noble title, and two out of the three burgomasters are barons, so it seemed reasonable that Ismark would be given the title of baron as well. There's nothing in ch. 8 that says Krezk is property of the Abbey; it reads to me almost like Krezk was built as a border town prior to Count Strahd's arrival, and the abbey might even have been built later when St. Markovia came with Count Strahd into Barovia valley. If Krezk pre-dates the Abbey, then it's not the Abbey's property. You certainly could rule that the town is Abbey property in your game, however.

Sorry for the confusion, I was saying that Krezk belonging to the Abbey was a headcanon, not specifically stated. I guess I completely forgot about the Dmitri being called a Baron, but Krezk is almost entirely forgettable besides the Abbey. I think Ismark's family are knights or minor lords , but not Baronage, because I think the VoB is Strahd's personal territory, and the Vallakoviches and Krezkovs are heads of their own specific regions, but the Abbot himself has more power than Baron Krezkov. I understand changing things for simplicity's sake, but an easy way to explain it is that burgomasters are the mayors, and barons are the land-owners, and due to the barons having more power, they are very often elected as burgomaster. The Burgomaster positions are basically hereditary anyway, since only the people from the most rich and powerful families are elected, so it doesn't make that much of a difference anyway.

Totally valid ideas. I can certainly see GMs making Krezk part of the Abbey and understand your argument for Ismark not being a baron. My Count Strahd is absolutely retentive about protocol, title usage, and so on as part of his lawful side, so I needed to add some order to the craziness that is CoS title/style of address usage. Plus, I have 4 history re-enactors at my table who pick up on that kind of thing. :D It's always fun to see how different GMs approach this kind of stuff.

Glad that we could have a civilized discussion about this, and it's good to hear other DM's opinions on less frequently discussed stuff, instead of the 500th post about the Dark Powers, Ireena as a PC, a Lycanthrope PC, or Vasili von Holtz.

LOL true that! Your posts are ones I always read since they bring up interesting points all the time. :D

My players tried to convince me that in Vallaki they were safe because they were no longer in Barovia. I explicitly called it "Barovia Town" so they wouldn't get confused; I said "Strahd is the count of the whole land of Barovia, in which this is a town"; I had the guards outside Vallaki say "while you are in the land of Barovia you are never safe, in Vallaki you are a little safe". They ended up admitting they were confused by the duel names, and wanted to believe they were safe from the obviously evil count... poor things.

Really? You don't see how a town sharing the name of the entire country could be confused? That being said, it's a minor inconvenience that's quickly resolved with a simple explanation.

New York City says hi

City, county, and state of New York all in one

County. Strahd rules Barovia as a count, so it's a county.

Semantics lol

Barovia, Barovia it’s a hell of a town. The Death House is up and the Burgomaster’s Manor is down.

Barvovia, Barovia! Barovia, Barovia! New York, New York!

r/unexpectedsimpsons

This didn't cause confusion in any of the Curse of Strahd games I ran/played in. Everyone understood from context if we were referring to the village or the domain. It did help that we were very rarely talking about the domain.

Cause You ain’t leaving it, makes sense, it’s just “the map” or “this place”

I mean whenever I talk about the entire area, I just say the valley

I don't really see a need for it. I always say "Castle Ravenloft" to refer to the castle as compared to the setting. I think it adds a certain flair. Do you hate saying New York City since it's in New York? Do you want to go back to New Amsterdam?

I agree with your argument, but as a Dutchman I totally wish you guys would go back to New Amsterdam

Old New York was once New Amsterdam? Why’d they change it?

As part of the overall ride that I’ve planned for my party, they refer to it as The Village, occasionally the The Village of Barovia.

That’s what I always do

Village of barovia was probably named that because it's right there in front of the castle. Strahd didn't have a complete hold on other places when he first took over. He was probably like "yeah that's my dad's town"

My players didn't seem to have a problem with Barovia. They would usually just call it "Barovia, Barovia" instead. Just like it's good to sometimes have two NPCs of the same name, having quirks like this in your named towns makes it feel more real because it happens in the real world often.

FYI: The name Corbilova is loosely derived from the Romanian word for raven. I find it annoying that you always have to specify whether Barovia means the village or the land.

The other villages are named after their barons. Why not match that theme if you’re going to change it.

I always thought it was the other way around.

You think they named the people after the town? Boy you're going to be really surprised about how streets are named.

Both my last names are towns in my country. Because a very common origin for last names was, well, the town that you were from. Which means that at some point in history, my ancestors were from these two towns. This is specially true in the case of nobility. Bob who lived in some place was just Bob, but *the* lord of the place was John Lord of the Place, which eventually got shortened to John of Place and down the line even just John Place. If you check real life nobility and see how dynasty names often match with places, it's usually because of this. Like the House of Hapsburg.

Washington is literally the old word the family village 'washing ton' (town). Hamlet is a Hamlet. I know people with last names York, Madrid, Castro, Maine, Flores, Cardoba... the three most common sources for ancestral last names are father's first name, town and occupation. Naming after the town is super common.

Nobles derive their [titles from the land they rule](https://www.reddit.com/r/CurseofStrahd/comments/i6e1mv/how_to_address_count_strahd_von_zarovich_and/). Their surnames are usually different from their titles. However, this module uses titles and names in wildly inconsistent ways, so most GMs can go with whatever floats their boats on that.

In this case are we considering "Baron/Burgomeister" the title or the name? It seems like you'd say he's Jim,"king" of England. Not "Jim Engladovich". You don't typically get the job and THEN they change your name. Your title is what you get. Edit- The post you share even addresses it. In one paragraph they talk about TITLES. And they give usage of examples on how the 'naming' convention of it works "Count Barovia" they start with in their explanation and then immediately in their example refer to them as "Count OF Barovia" Strahd Von Zarovich doesn't become 'Strahd Barovich'. Partly, because he founded the area and named it after his dad, other part is that it's not typically how it works. Ie: I've never seen anyone move Fiona to be burgomeister and have her change her name to 'Fiona Vallakovich' though her title would then be 'Burgomeister of Vallaki' she would still be Fiona Wachter.

Baron is the title, Burgomeister is the job (and even title if you want to use Burgomeister in that way). A noble's title is tied to the land s/he rules, not to the surname. Strahd is our favorite vampire's given name. Zarovich is the family surname. Barovia is the County that Strahd rules over. The correct style of address is His Lordship, Strahd von Zarovich, Count of Barovia. In my game, Strahd has retained his highest ranking title from when he was Crown Prince, so he's addressed "His Royal Highness, Prince Strahd von Zarovich, Count of Barovia." My head canon didn't have him becoming king at any time, despite the tiny blurb on page 26 in the module. If you are speaking to Strahd, and his highest rank is Count, you would address him in one of these ways: "Your Lordship," "My Lord Count," or "Count Barovia." He's not Count Zarovich or Count of Zarovich. However, the book has completely inconsistent naming conventions that are unique to it where the baron/esses' surnames are also related to the name of the land--hence the Krezkovs ruling Krezk and Vallakovichs ruling Vallaki. If you follow the naming convention strictly, then Fiona would be styled "Her Ladyship Fiona Wachter, Baroness of Vallaki." Baron Vargas is Baron Vallaki or Baron of Vallaki, not Baron Vallakovich. Dmitri is Baron Krezk or Baron of Krezk, not Baron Krezkov. When Fiona took over as Baroness in our game, the town was renamed Wachterstadt. In my game, it's a perk that Count Strahd allows his baron/esses--renaming a town to be associated with the ruling baron/ess' surname. You could do it the other way around in your game: when barons and baronesses ascend to the baronial throne, their surname changes to the name of the land they rule according to Barovian law. Or you could just stick with the traditional naming conventions--go with whatever makes you a happy GM.

It is. Vallakovich means "Son of Vallaki", and Krezkov means "Of Krezk".

The burgomaster's family line in the village doesn't seem to follow the same nomenclature. You have Krezkov of course, and you have Baron Vallakovich and his son Viktor Vallakovich. But then in the village the late burgomaster is Kolyan Indirovich and his son being Ismark Kolyanovich, following a Russian/Icelandic style naming pattern. It would make less sense in my opinion.

Your players won’t understand that at all, they never knew the previous name It makes sense to keep a solid theme in such a small valley.

My players will understand that the settlements can have different traditions, thanks. They're not simple people

No. I mean; trying to match the naming of one town to the new name is irrelevant since they won’t have known it was previously “the town of Barovia”. they are uninformed on that knowledge it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR INTELLIGENCE. You though.. idk

I'd ask you to use commas, because that comment is a pain to read. Besides, I think it's you who's missing the point here. In no way did I imply that players would be stupid because of not knowing the as-written name of a settlement.

Ya sorry i was on my phone ordering food, are you gonna be okay? I hope so and no... you implied i called your players dumb, which i never did, i said they lack the info of the previous name and you misread. get over yourself

Knowing the as-written name was never even relevant to what I was saying.

now youre just talking to yourself in a circle.

I feel the same, although I'd change the village name to Kolyanovo or something like that to be in line with naming conventions in Krezk and Vallaki.

I like that a lot.

Good call. Barovia ( the village ) is not Borovia ( the village ) in my Barovia ( the country ).

I just had people refer to the Village of Barovia as the namesake of the Valley and no one questioned it.

It's not that hard, do you have a hard time telling the difference between NY state and NY city?

As a non-american: Yes, I have. If someone told me something happend in New York without telling me New York City or New York State, I wouldn't have a clue.

I just call it the Village of Barovia.

I actually renamed Strahd, "Barovia" and Ireena ,"Barovia". I also renamed the amber temple to "Barovia". In character, Barovians used the word "Barovia" instead of "the". Ismark was also called Barovia by his friends and "Barovia" by others. Vallaki I changed to "south barovia". I added a new town, that I also called Barovia.

I like it, has a nice ring to it. I hate the village of Barovia anyway, I'd like to just completely rework it.

I renamed it to Barovburg

Sounds like a disease that can be caught

Change it to Aivorab. Or Brovaai, Vairboaa.

I changed my Village of Barovia to “Bukovnya” after the Romanian Bukovino region(?)

But then you wouldn't be able to use the Barovia The Office meme, you know the one.

Change it in mine too. Went with Barov so it was similar but not identical.

I would rather go the opposite direction and call *more* things Barovia. Castle Barovia, the burgomeister is instead the Baroviameister, and he lives in Barovia manor. And sleeps in the Barovia room. And his name is Barovia.

I've seen it cause some confusion. I changed the town's name to Barov since Barovia sounds more like a name for a region.

On our table we've resorted to referring to it as "Barovia City"

I started calling it Baroviaville lol

If I run this game again, I'll be changing the name of Barovia Village to Kolyanovo and changing Ismark's father's name to some new given name and Kolyanovich as the permanent family surname. The [naming conventions and title usage](https://www.reddit.com/r/CurseofStrahd/comments/i6e1mv/how_to_address_count_strahd_von_zarovich_and/) in the module are all over the place. The Village name is from the original module which just had the Castle and the Village, and Perkins et al kept the village name the same when they expanded the map out into an entire County. Since the writers have all been Americans (as far as I know) and probably aren't experts on noble title usage and styles of address, I get why it's a bit messy. But I agree, having to differentiate between the village and the County is annoying. I held an investiture ceremony for Baron Ismark, and he asked to rename the village to Ravenov "in honor of the Count's beloved mother" so I didn't have to deal with the "Are you talking about the village or the County" lore questions anymore.

That’s become a running joke in my campaign. Whenever we said Barovia we’d always say “the village, not the kingdom”. When they found out about King Barov they added that to the list. “We’re going to Barovia, the village, not the kingdom or the king,”

I prefer the confusion. Most campaigns in Barovia should be confusing to the players. They are locals after all.

In italian, i usually call "la Barovia" ("the Barovia") the county and "Barovia" the Village. Not sure if It works in english, thou.

It doesn't work in English, unfortunately, because English is weird (and I say that as an American). Italian certainly offers an elegant solution to the problem.

Meh. I don’t like it. It’s as simple as “the region or the town”. Next up: suggestion to change New York City back to New Amsterdam to avoid confusion.

Yeah just change it to Bew Bork to avoid confusion with the state, too.

I am doing the same, but calling it the village of "Barovic".

New Yorkers be like "I don't see the issue"

I changed it to Barova

We just call it Barovia, Barovia. Like New York. New York. It's fun when occasionally an NPC just a little "confused" about it.

I used to refer to it as little berovia to differentiate.

The confusion with the PC and NPC was pretty funny at times

We just call it Barovia Township.