What a fucking disaster this was. Law enforcement put on display for being pretty heavy handed and tasteless, what with the raising of the ATF flag around the burnt corpses of children. It definitely chilled law enforcement from going into other factions that have compounds to avoid the same shit happening again.
Fun fact, Timothy Mcveigh was there during the siege watching and later saw the place burn down on tv. This helped radicalize that brush cut fuckhead into joining with the white power movement and blowing up that building in Oklahoma.
I’m also certain he was interviewed by local media too I recall hearing a clip on last podcast on the left
Edit: he was link found here[Tim McVeigh at Waco](https://youtu.be/gtJrT5iwwtM)
Ruby Ridge wasn't too far in the past and very fresh in their memory. A lot of people believe this caused the ATF and FBI to act more aggressively than they normally would have to rehabilitate their image.
He committed the OKC attack on the anniversary of Waco. Haven't watched the new doc on Netflix yet so I don't know if there's any new information to be gleaned seeing as there's a bunch of docs already. I'm down with true crime, the spread of information, and history but I gotta say dropping a doc about this event in a social political climate like the one we cuttently are living in in the US is a little sus.
The doc left out how the whole ordeal ended. The way the doc portrayed it, a sniper killed koresh and ended the siege. Doesn't mention anything about about how they pumped cs gas into the building or how the building caught fire or how there is a possibility the davidians turned on David in the end, or the possibility that David killed himself. The last few days to even weeks of the event weren't really covered.
That shit is sus.... They are literally trying to rewrite the ending
Edit I'm the sussy one. I missed the entire third episode and thought I finished the doc cause I saw the credits for the 2nd episode
The doc definitely showed the ending. They even played audio of Koresh & his cult talking about pouring fuel all over the compound and the fact that 3 separate but simultaneous fires – started by the Davidians – that caused the compound to burn. It was a mass suicide with 9 people that pussed out and saved themselves.
Yes it does go into all that you have mentioned above.
The Ariel footage was definitive proof there were 3 strategically placed fires started within the compound by those living there
Did you watch the same doc I did? They did mention the fire. But, it was a lot more sympathetic toward the feds that the next most recent doc on Waco I'd seen.
I watched it today .
I was 23 when it happened so I watched with interest back then from the U.K. , although sporadically.
Wow 😮 the communication between the HRT and the CNT was dire !!
The Crisis negotiators were doing everything in their power to get people out and whatever they did, the HRT just stamped all over and the consequence of that was that KORESH, even though he had built up a great rapport with the negotiators, could trust what they were saying and doing because no matter what they promised, the Hostage negotiator team would ride roughshod over it !
Someone posted that picture of him playing guitar in a music FB group I'm in with the caption "what song is he playing?"
We Didn't Start The Fire was the first comment
Law enforcement botched their raid, but Koresh was a selfish asshole who didn’t do himself any favors with his response. They could have let the kids and other vulnerable people leave. But no. I think he thought he’d stick it to the government. All well and good, but not at the expense of burning children alive.
But you're still blaming Koresh for the ATF firing flammable tear gas into the building? The ATF knew there were kids in there. They knew the tear gas they had was highly flammable. They did it anyway.
EDIT: Blocking me because I disagreed with you in a reasonable manner. Real classy, u/mst3k_42. Coward.
EDIT 2: Because u/mst3k_42 has abused the block function to silence me, I can no longer dispute any of you replying with little more than "NUH UH!", so I will leave [this](https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2000-07-07/77866/#:~:text=CS%20%2D%2D%20the%20common%20name,a%20deadly%20gas%2C%20hydrogen%20cyanide.)
From the article:
>Invented in 1928, CS is called a "super tear gas" because it works instantaneously, causing burning eyes, coughing, breathing difficulty, stinging skin, and vomiting. CS -- the common name for orthochlorbenzalmalononitrile -- is a fine white powder, about the consistency of talcum powder, and it must be spread with some type of dispersing agent. But it has several nasty qualities, including its flammability. When burned, CS releases a deadly gas, hydrogen cyanide. And when methylene chloride -- the dispersing agent of choice -- is burned, it releases deadly hydrogen chloride and chlorine. Both chemicals, in turn, release large amounts of carbon monoxide. According to the Failure Analysis report, 44 of the 76 bodies recovered from Mount Carmel tested positive for cyanide. And according to the coroner's report, a quarter of the deaths at Mount Carmel were caused by carbon monoxide asphyxiation, while another 27% died of smoke inhalation.
Unless David Koresh filled his own compound full that specific type of tear gas, then he did not start the fire that killed his followers.
I blame Koresh for the entire thing. Raping kids, taking multiple wives, stockpiling ammo and weapons. He was given 51 days to come out peacefully. He promised that if he was able to send out a public statement, he would. They let him, and then he said, eh, never mind! When the shitshow started his followers killed ATF agents. What was this guy thinking? He had to know how it would go if they fired back.
Koresh was investigated by the local Sheriff Jack Harwell. He cleared Koresh of any sexual abuse allegations. Although Koresh did marry 14 year old girls it was with the permission of the parents making it legal in Texas. I don't agree with parents allowing their children to marry at that age but it's the law.
There’s no solid proof either way that Koresh or the feds started the fires. But is your bank robber terrorizing the hostages? Is he actively shooting back at police? Dude, no matter how much you just want the feds to take all the blame, I would never classify Koresh as the good guy. I don’t even believe in hell but I hope he’s burning in hell. And maybe he really did want to be seen as the martyr. See?? The government really does have it out for us! Fuck that guy.
You're operating under some sort of false dichotomy where if one party has blame than the other has to be the good guy. That's not how the world works. The feds bear a lot of the responsibility for killing those kids. Koresh was an asshole. Those are two things that exist together.
I’m actually responding to the other dude who seems to minimize Koresh’s culpability. It’s like saying Charles Manson shouldn’t have been convicted for murder because he wasn’t even present. It’s like, yeah….but he was the catalyst.
>Dude, no matter how much you just want the feds to take all the blame, I would never classify Koresh as the good guy.
I didn't say he was? You're just making stuff up.
If the police tell the robbers "Hey let the kids out or we'll set fire to the place" and the kids arent released, who really killed the hostages?
It was a horrible situation all around and neither party is innocent. But to say the Fed is the only one at fault is just wrong.
>If the police tell the robbers "Hey let the kids out or we'll set fire to the place" and the kids arent released, who really killed the hostages?
The people who start the fire, so, the police. They could just, you know, not do that?
>It was a horrible situation all around and neither party is innocent. But to say the Fed is the only one at fault is just wrong.
I literally never said that. You are making things up.
Yes. If you have a house full kids and armed police outside telling you to please let the kids go, step one is “hey hey hey let’s get the kids out of here and talk about this”
Also, if you believe that there is a great enough threat to your safety that you should arm a large group of people for protection…maybe that isn’t a safe place for kids.
What gets me is that, iirc, the police were staking him out and saw him out jogging every morning. Why didn't they just get him while he was out jogging? Why endanger so many people? So many followers would be alive today. Koresh was definitely to blame, too. His ego was too big to let the children out, and that's another reason so many people were killed. It's just an all around fucked up situation.
I don't dispute that he started it. But the original comment blames the fire on Koresh, when the ATF should have known that firing a flammable tear gas into a confined space full of children was a terrible idea. David Koresh was a criminal, but he didn't set the fires. The ATF is responsible for those deaths. That's all I'm saying.
I don’t have that take away from the comment.
Tear gas is used frequently and almost always without a fire starting. As far as I have seen, there is no conclusive evidence as to how the fires started.
Once shots are fired the kids are at risk. It’s true in any hostage situation. And this was a hostage situation. Minors being held after offers to send them to safety in a dangerous situation is a hostage scenario.
There was almost no chance that the Feds were gonna come out of this looking good. Koresh wasn’t going to walk away and be arrested and probably spend the rest of his life in jail. He took those children down with his ship.
>All well and good, but not at the expense of burning children alive.
From the OC. Koresh didn't burn those children alive, the ATF did.
>Tear gas is used frequently and almost always without a fire starting. As far as I have seen, there is no conclusive evidence as to how the fires started.
The type of tear gas used is specific, and known to be flammable. [According to court documents,](https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2000-07-07/77866/#:~:text=CS%20%2D%2D%20the%20common%20name,a%20deadly%20gas%2C%20hydrogen%20cyanide.)
From the article:
>Invented in 1928, CS is called a "super tear gas" because it works instantaneously, causing burning eyes, coughing, breathing difficulty, stinging skin, and vomiting. CS -- the common name for orthochlorbenzalmalononitrile -- is a fine white powder, about the consistency of talcum powder, and it must be spread with some type of dispersing agent. But it has several nasty qualities, including its flammability. When burned, CS releases a deadly gas, hydrogen cyanide. And when methylene chloride -- the dispersing agent of choice -- is burned, it releases deadly hydrogen chloride and chlorine. Both chemicals, in turn, release large amounts of carbon monoxide. According to the Failure Analysis report, 44 of the 76 bodies recovered from Mount Carmel tested positive for cyanide. And according to the coroner's report, a quarter of the deaths at Mount Carmel were caused by carbon monoxide asphyxiation, while another 27% died of smoke inhalation.
Nah dude, DK is. Step away for a sec and look back in again. DK held a powerful position and he used it. There may have been bumbling idiots on the other side but they had to do something right? Hindsight is great, but at the end of the day only one guy could have solved this one real quick.
Why does everyone ignore the audio of Koresh's followers discussing where he said to pour the gasoline and the forensics of the case?
First of all cyanide forms naturally during decomposition. perfectly routine to find cyanide in dead bodies even when they weren't poisoned. The forensic pathologist found zero evidence that CS gas played a role in any of the deaths and *specifically points out how misleading C02 levels in a dead body* can be in this regard. None of them showed massive levels of CS in their systems either. Koresh almost certainly knew they would use ordinance that would spark. There were three sites with clear evidence of accelerant being used within the compound. This tracks with the audio recording mentioned. The victims who were shot were shot *from inside the compound* and there is zero forensic evidence indicating the feds killed anyone by bullet.
The feds were obviously wildly aggressive in a way that borders on criminality but c'mon. We can't just ignore the forensics, audio recordings, and the pathology reports. Claiming the feds are solely responsible for the fire is simply nonsense. Also pointing this out isn't being pro feds. It's simply forensic science.
Forensic Pathology Evaluation of the 1993 Branch Davidian Deaths ... https://www.apologeticsindex.org/pdf/Graham.pdf
The Ariel footage shows deliberate ignition in 3 strategic locations within minutes of each other and there’s audio of DK referring to the fuel being poured.
Having said that, i would have gone with the crisis negotiators way of approaching it, even at the end , no matter how much longer it took but instead the Hostage rescue teams decided to override the agreements made between DK and the crisis teams and start pumping in tear gas and sending in the tanks .
Plus the stockpile of ammunition was apparently blasting all over the show too.
DK Was responsible for the shit show he presided over but the Hostage rescue team were at fault too for the way in which they lost patience and let the testosterone plus anger at losing 4 of their own men, get to them and brutally went in for the rapid end to the conflict.
Many lessons were (hopefully) learned but unfortunately at the cost of so many lives.
However, it was also a first of its kind and even the best trained people were at a loss of exactly what to do and they didn’t expect the serving of a firearm warrant to result in this . It’s always easier when you look at it with the benefit of hindsight but I would not have wanted to be there and I applaud the courage of those that did their best.
The crisis negotiations are still affected to this day.
Unbeknownst to the ATF agent, koresh and his followers poured gasoline all over the compound prior to the tanks filling the place with tear gas. American Experience - Oklahoma City (59 minutes into the documentary) goes into depth about the Oklahoma City bombing and its connections to Waco and Ruby Ridge.
"But it has several nasty qualities, including its flammability. When burned, CS releases a deadly gas, hydrogen cyanide. And when methylene chloride -- the dispersing agent of choice -- is burned, it releases deadly hydrogen chloride and chlorine. Both chemicals, in turn, release large amounts of carbon monoxide. According to the Failure Analysis report, 44 of the 76 bodies recovered from Mount Carmel tested positive for cyanide. And according to the coroner's report, a quarter of the deaths at Mount Carmel were caused by carbon monoxide asphyxiation, while another 27% died of smoke inhalation."
That is important context that was left out of the documentary I mentioned. Thanks for sharing.
Everyone is so focused on who started the fires since that was the ultimate cause of death of the children. Why is no one pointing out that the ATF and FBI literally used a chemical weapon that was so aggressive the US signed a pact to stop using it DURING WAR 6 damn days before the siege. The US agreed not to use that tear gas on enemy combatants on open fields of war but the ATF and FBI decided to use it in an enclosed space full of children who couldn't control whether they were there or not?! After that link I read a little more about the chemical. Those kids were in for suffering and death the second that was used in a boarded up building, fires or no fires.
In the concentration it was at, yes it was. Continue licking those boots. Funny a year ago you were screaming acab. Look at you now. Sad. Go ahead and defend the atf agent taking a picture smiling over charred bodies.
You hit the nail on the head with what's wrong with people today. What we say and really believe does *not* jive with the reality.
We've all started gaslighting ourselves and I can't figure out why. But pisses people off to no end to point that out it's like the story of my life this weekend
Ramming the compound with tanks was just to make ventilation holes for when they threw in CS gas that's flammable and then ignited it with flash bangs. The ATF knew exactly what they were doing
Or fill it with an amount of cs had that is on that concentration extremely flammable. Or the atf not taking pictures over the bodies of charred children
Koresh was a mentally ill narcissist. None of it had to happen. They executed the warrant on a fucking Sunday when the most Davidians would be there. Most of those people did not live at the compound, and even if they did, they had jobs off the compound. They could have done it on a week day. They could have arrested Koresh any other day of the week when he went out running. They wanted a big body count, and they got it.
You know what really set him off? When they ran over that garage that had his classic El Camino inside.
Hell that even hurt me when I saw it.
I believe it was a 67 if I remember right
**PLEASE LET'S NOT TURN THIS INTO A HUGE CONSPIRACY ARGUMENT. YOU'RE WELCOME TO CROSSPOST THIS TO r/Conspiracy FOR THAT TYPE OF DISCUSSION.**
The Waco siege, also known as the Waco massacre, was the law enforcement siege of the compound that belonged to the religious cult Branch Davidians. It was carried out by the U.S. federal government, Texas state law enforcement, and the U.S. military, between February 28 and April 19, 1993. The Branch Davidians were led by David Koresh and were headquartered at Mount Carmel Center ranch in the community of Axtell, Texas, 13 miles (21 kilometers) northeast of Waco. Suspecting the group of stockpiling illegal weapons, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) obtained a search warrant for the compound and arrest warrants for Koresh as well as a select few of the group's members.
The incident began when the ATF attempted to raid the ranch in order to serve a search and arrest warrant. An intense gunfight erupted, resulting in the deaths of four ATF agents and six Branch Davidians. Upon the ATF's entering of the property and failure to execute the search warrant, a siege lasting 51 days was initiated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Eventually, the FBI launched a tear gas attack on April 19, 1993, in an attempt to force the Branch Davidians out of the ranch. Shortly thereafter, the Mount Carmel Center became engulfed in flames. The fire resulted in the deaths of 76 Branch Davidians, including 25 children, two pregnant women, and David Koresh.
The events of the siege and attack, particularly the origin of the fire, are disputed by various sources. Department of Justice reports from October 1993 and July 2000 conclude that although incendiary tear gas canisters were used by the FBI, the Branch Davidians had started the fire, based on listening devices overhearing their discussion, and evidence that showed at least three simultaneous ignition points. The FBI contends that none of their agents fired any live rounds on the day of the fire. Critics contend that live rounds were fired by law enforcement, and suggest that a combination of gunshots and flammable tear gas was the true cause of the fire.
The Waco siege was cited by Timothy McVeigh as the main reason for his and Terry Nichols's plan to execute the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19, 1995, as well as the modern-day American militia movement and a rise in opposition to firearm regulation.
Tons more in the Wikipedia article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege
I took all my photos from Google Images.
They led the siege and had started a fire at the exit/entrance of the basement where every davidian was hiding. Thus leading to every member, including children, to burning to death with no way to escape.
in that whole article there are only two "quotes" that could even relate to it, and its only a half a sentence each. they could be talking about anything.
[By assisting the FBI in filling the compound with highly flammable tear gas.](https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2000-07-07/77866/#:~:text=CS%20%2D%2D%20the%20common%20name,a%20deadly%20gas%2C%20hydrogen%20cyanide.)
The miniseries Waco was really good. Starring Taylor Kitsch, Michael Shannon, melissa Benoist, Julie Garner, Rory Culkin, John Leguizamo, and Glenn Fleshler. Pretty historically accurate if I recall correctly.
It sucks that the people who believed and followed Koresh and were truly too ignorant to know any better died, but, Koresh was a rapist, child molestor, a liar, manipulator, and extremist. How can anyone possibly defend a person like that? Koresh had 51 days to either surrender or let people go who wanted to. The stand off began violently and ended way worse. I remember watching the news in school when it was all going on. I remember the testimony that aired and all the conspiracy theories that formed after. Just like any other hostage situation or extremely FUBAR circumstance, hindsight is always 20/20. But to defend Koresh, that's really absurd. There's so much information that will never be released to the public regarding the years of investigation prior to the fire, and we'll never know about it or why the decisions were truly made that day. Unfortunately for the truly innocent people in the building (kids), it's these situations where training occurs hopefully for the better. Sometimes, shit just goes horribly wrong and people will always die. Just the way it is. I'm sure law enforcement could have turned a blind eye and caught the ones they were after later on and avoided the history books. Woulda, shoulda, coulda and really, none of that matters now. People died because of mistakes. To err is human and people died that go around. It's literally been mankind's existence and will always continue as long as humans are present in the world. We're all too stupid to get along and all too stupid to be decent. Then we trust the same stupid people to govern us. We're fucked! Just sit back, chill, watch the world burn, and enjoy our very short lives while we can. We will never learn from all of the horrible things that happen.
I remember watching this when the news started broadcasting, periodically during the long standoff, and at the end. It was horrible and is forever burned in my memory. Even typing this my heart is heavy for all those whose lives were lost.
What exactly did this guy do wrong? I know what is written but why kill everyone. Aren't we allowed to have a bunch of people living together in a community?
He did gross shit with children like marrying one or two and there were reports of child abuse in the compound. Law enforcement shouldn't have shown up the way they did and instigated at every possible situation
He released some of the children, just not "his" children. The ATF raid was due to a package that was destined for the compound. It had opened, and the US postal worker found grenades.
Why the hell didn't I know about this. Maybe I'm thinking of a different case I don't know. It amazes me the power that one person can produce. The followings that they get. Kind of like the Pied Piper.
Oh okay. I must be thinking of somebody else. I thought it was this case that I knew about but maybe not. I don't know maybe there was a case in Colorado or somewhere where a man his wife and two or three kids. There was so warrant out for the father for failure to appear I believe. They weren't doing anything wrong in my eyes and I think two out of the four were shot. Maybe that's the case I'm thinking of.
If I remember correctly, they were to arrest him for selling a shotgun that supposedly was too short. They had plenty of opportunities to arrest him outside of the compound.
You’re thinking of ruby ridge. This compound had TONs of illegal machine guns and grenades. The ATF was serving a search warrant for this. Hence the armed response.
It's contentious and unconfirmed, but the reports at the time were that he was abusing children: what is known for sure was that he had married a child, which is ethically monstrous but was actually perfectly *legal*, I'm not kidding. All things considered, you shouldn't think if Koresh as some innocent everyman, even in spite of my next paragraph.
None of that really matters, as the stated reason for feds to get involved was actually a firearms charge, alleging that two members of the church were illegally building and selling automatic weapons. This was almost certainly false, which is part of why a lot of people get very, very angry about the fact that children died over it.
I grew up in Waco and about 8 miles from there. ATF screwed this up badly. Also, if you watch the actual videos you’ll see two ATF agents go in the window upstairs and the third one starts firing on the other two. Bunch of idiots. David Korean used to jog out there all the time and could have been easily picked up by law enforcement. Instead they had to do this bungled raid. Then on top of that I was on the rescue and clean up team at OKC bombing (stationed near there).
I was 14 years old and lived in Waco when the compound burned down, I remember seeing the smoke from our house. Was a very sad event for everyone involved, this would be a moment in time that would change if the laws of physics permitted.
I remember watching this live. It was 1993 and I was 16. I didn’t totally understand what was happening, but I knew that it wouldn’t end well.
If you want a good explanation of Waco and what happened, Last Podcast on the Left has an excellent series. Here’s the link: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0sJD7eBfCxuQchCUTyBUzP?si=5Zy_4Fb_SbeZy-RrmPZTIA
Just a warning LPOTL is a comedy podcast. When they cover crime, of course the stories are real. So, just a warning if true crime with a comedic spin is not for you.
For the longest time I thought the Davidians were the main antagonizing force but then I saw a doc that showed the inquiry where they grilled ATF/FBI and they claimed they didn’t shoot first but aerial footage was shown with heat signatures and the outsiders shot first. It’s terrible that docs are allowed to be so biased.
Religious group suspected of stockpiling illegal weapons, ATF attempts a raid and shootout ensues, ATF pushed back and the FBI moves in, standoff for literally 51 days, FBI launch a tear gas attack and a fire starts (origin of the fire is heavily debated).
The end result was only 4 federal agents killed, 82 members of the group killed including women and children.
The kicker is there were many opportunities to catch the leader while he was out in town, or even wait until he went out into town again.
Trying to raid a large building with an unknown number of guns was not a bright idea.
Hey mate, I wasn’t sure if this was a joke or not so I checked out your profile….
You seem to be open to checking out different and curious stuff which I totally understand, I’m often curious too. But just FYI, photos of burnt dead bodies are usually not great to show people without warning. That’s why they are marked as NSFW.
Absolutely heartbreaking for both parties. An abs disaster. This and Ruby Ridge were a cluster fuck of mistakes made by the ATF. I don't know how accurate it would be, but I personally think that if the media didn't immediately get involved, it possibly (emphasis on possibly!) Could have been resolved faster and hopefully with less bloodshed
The Branch Davidians are (yes they still exist) an off shoot of the Seventh Day Adventists that has existed since the 1920's or 1930s. They owned the property in Waco wayyyyyyy before David Koresh came on the scene. Plus, most of the members had regular jobs and supported the church just like in any other religion. The Branch Davidians still own the property.
“Branch Davidian” was the name of their religious sect. I mean, it's kinda like asking why we call rabbits "rabbit" and not just "animal".
Words are like mental shortcuts for longer concepts.
"Cult of freaks" doesn't really differentiate them from the thousands of other cults. Or freaks for that matter.
We allow reporting on anything death related with a backstory. And the Part two are definitely crime scene photos, you can even observe crime scene tape on a few. Part 3 and 4 that are coming soon are most definitely crime scene photos, they will be photos of burned victims taken at the coroner's office.
Anything and everything posted in this subreddit is automatically labeled NSFW. For one it has violent images, like an ATF agent being carried away shot.
Just finished watching this. And I'm so shocked at how badly this was handled by "professionals". They fxcked up from the start and were so over the top and heavy handed.
What a fucking disaster this was. Law enforcement put on display for being pretty heavy handed and tasteless, what with the raising of the ATF flag around the burnt corpses of children. It definitely chilled law enforcement from going into other factions that have compounds to avoid the same shit happening again. Fun fact, Timothy Mcveigh was there during the siege watching and later saw the place burn down on tv. This helped radicalize that brush cut fuckhead into joining with the white power movement and blowing up that building in Oklahoma.
Wasn't he also selling bumper stickers when he was there?
I’m also certain he was interviewed by local media too I recall hearing a clip on last podcast on the left Edit: he was link found here[Tim McVeigh at Waco](https://youtu.be/gtJrT5iwwtM)
I had never seen this. Thanks for sharing.
That's where I got it from, hail yourself friend
Hail Santa 🤘
I believe your correct, along with pamphlets or some crap.
Ruby Ridge wasn't too far in the past and very fresh in their memory. A lot of people believe this caused the ATF and FBI to act more aggressively than they normally would have to rehabilitate their image.
Which is crazy because they’d gotten Ruby Ridge so wrong
He committed the OKC attack on the anniversary of Waco. Haven't watched the new doc on Netflix yet so I don't know if there's any new information to be gleaned seeing as there's a bunch of docs already. I'm down with true crime, the spread of information, and history but I gotta say dropping a doc about this event in a social political climate like the one we cuttently are living in in the US is a little sus.
The doc left out how the whole ordeal ended. The way the doc portrayed it, a sniper killed koresh and ended the siege. Doesn't mention anything about about how they pumped cs gas into the building or how the building caught fire or how there is a possibility the davidians turned on David in the end, or the possibility that David killed himself. The last few days to even weeks of the event weren't really covered. That shit is sus.... They are literally trying to rewrite the ending Edit I'm the sussy one. I missed the entire third episode and thought I finished the doc cause I saw the credits for the 2nd episode
The doc definitely showed the ending. They even played audio of Koresh & his cult talking about pouring fuel all over the compound and the fact that 3 separate but simultaneous fires – started by the Davidians – that caused the compound to burn. It was a mass suicide with 9 people that pussed out and saved themselves.
Another comment pointed out I missed the entire 3rd epsidoe
There is a third episode you must have missed.
There was more than one episode?
Yes it does go into all that you have mentioned above. The Ariel footage was definitive proof there were 3 strategically placed fires started within the compound by those living there
Did you watch the same doc I did? They did mention the fire. But, it was a lot more sympathetic toward the feds that the next most recent doc on Waco I'd seen.
I watched it today . I was 23 when it happened so I watched with interest back then from the U.K. , although sporadically. Wow 😮 the communication between the HRT and the CNT was dire !! The Crisis negotiators were doing everything in their power to get people out and whatever they did, the HRT just stamped all over and the consequence of that was that KORESH, even though he had built up a great rapport with the negotiators, could trust what they were saying and doing because no matter what they promised, the Hostage negotiator team would ride roughshod over it !
brush cut fuckhead lmao
Like Ruby Ridge. Heavy military-type enforcement
And McVeigh chose the same date as the end of the WACO siege to blow up the building in Oklahoma - April 19th
Supposedly “an eye for an eye” was actually meant to regulate people from doing something even more horrendous
Janet Reno had something like to prove after Ruby Ridge.
Alfred P. Murrah building in OKC, OK. I lived there and it was my 10th birthday. Both of my parents worked downtown. It was a nightmare.
Chain reaction eh, Ruby Ridge inspires David Koresch, and David Koresch inspires Timothy McVeigh...
Someone posted that picture of him playing guitar in a music FB group I'm in with the caption "what song is he playing?" We Didn't Start The Fire was the first comment
If that was here I would've guilded.
Law enforcement botched their raid, but Koresh was a selfish asshole who didn’t do himself any favors with his response. They could have let the kids and other vulnerable people leave. But no. I think he thought he’d stick it to the government. All well and good, but not at the expense of burning children alive.
Maybe if they didn't ram the compound with tanks...
Not defending law enforcement’s actions on that but still I’m never going to feel bad for koresh. His vulnerable followers, yes.
But you're still blaming Koresh for the ATF firing flammable tear gas into the building? The ATF knew there were kids in there. They knew the tear gas they had was highly flammable. They did it anyway. EDIT: Blocking me because I disagreed with you in a reasonable manner. Real classy, u/mst3k_42. Coward. EDIT 2: Because u/mst3k_42 has abused the block function to silence me, I can no longer dispute any of you replying with little more than "NUH UH!", so I will leave [this](https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2000-07-07/77866/#:~:text=CS%20%2D%2D%20the%20common%20name,a%20deadly%20gas%2C%20hydrogen%20cyanide.) From the article: >Invented in 1928, CS is called a "super tear gas" because it works instantaneously, causing burning eyes, coughing, breathing difficulty, stinging skin, and vomiting. CS -- the common name for orthochlorbenzalmalononitrile -- is a fine white powder, about the consistency of talcum powder, and it must be spread with some type of dispersing agent. But it has several nasty qualities, including its flammability. When burned, CS releases a deadly gas, hydrogen cyanide. And when methylene chloride -- the dispersing agent of choice -- is burned, it releases deadly hydrogen chloride and chlorine. Both chemicals, in turn, release large amounts of carbon monoxide. According to the Failure Analysis report, 44 of the 76 bodies recovered from Mount Carmel tested positive for cyanide. And according to the coroner's report, a quarter of the deaths at Mount Carmel were caused by carbon monoxide asphyxiation, while another 27% died of smoke inhalation. Unless David Koresh filled his own compound full that specific type of tear gas, then he did not start the fire that killed his followers.
I blame Koresh for the entire thing. Raping kids, taking multiple wives, stockpiling ammo and weapons. He was given 51 days to come out peacefully. He promised that if he was able to send out a public statement, he would. They let him, and then he said, eh, never mind! When the shitshow started his followers killed ATF agents. What was this guy thinking? He had to know how it would go if they fired back.
You watch a Netflix doc and believe everything they said lol. And stockpiling weaponry is not wrong in the least.
For civilians to do this in any other country other than the USA it’s a bit fuckn weird though.
I’m naturalized citizen. Please tell me more.
Koresh was investigated by the local Sheriff Jack Harwell. He cleared Koresh of any sexual abuse allegations. Although Koresh did marry 14 year old girls it was with the permission of the parents making it legal in Texas. I don't agree with parents allowing their children to marry at that age but it's the law.
You shouldn’t reply if you have blocked him. That’s the coward’s way.
If a bank robber takes hostages, and the police board up the building and set fire to the place, who really killed the hostages?
There’s no solid proof either way that Koresh or the feds started the fires. But is your bank robber terrorizing the hostages? Is he actively shooting back at police? Dude, no matter how much you just want the feds to take all the blame, I would never classify Koresh as the good guy. I don’t even believe in hell but I hope he’s burning in hell. And maybe he really did want to be seen as the martyr. See?? The government really does have it out for us! Fuck that guy.
You're operating under some sort of false dichotomy where if one party has blame than the other has to be the good guy. That's not how the world works. The feds bear a lot of the responsibility for killing those kids. Koresh was an asshole. Those are two things that exist together.
I’m actually responding to the other dude who seems to minimize Koresh’s culpability. It’s like saying Charles Manson shouldn’t have been convicted for murder because he wasn’t even present. It’s like, yeah….but he was the catalyst.
>Dude, no matter how much you just want the feds to take all the blame, I would never classify Koresh as the good guy. I didn't say he was? You're just making stuff up.
If the police tell the robbers "Hey let the kids out or we'll set fire to the place" and the kids arent released, who really killed the hostages? It was a horrible situation all around and neither party is innocent. But to say the Fed is the only one at fault is just wrong.
>If the police tell the robbers "Hey let the kids out or we'll set fire to the place" and the kids arent released, who really killed the hostages? The people who start the fire, so, the police. They could just, you know, not do that? >It was a horrible situation all around and neither party is innocent. But to say the Fed is the only one at fault is just wrong. I literally never said that. You are making things up.
That never happened.
Koresh started the fires. Intentionally poured fuel himself. There’s audio of him talking about it right as shit starts burning.
you have a link?
Blaming Koresh for putting children in harms way.
If it’s true than he put them in harms way long before the standoff. It also would be feasible that he wouldn’t care to release the children.
Yes. If you have a house full kids and armed police outside telling you to please let the kids go, step one is “hey hey hey let’s get the kids out of here and talk about this” Also, if you believe that there is a great enough threat to your safety that you should arm a large group of people for protection…maybe that isn’t a safe place for kids.
Exactly. All Koresh needed to do was simply walk outside with his hands on his head and his fingers interlaced. Boom, end of story everyone lives..
What gets me is that, iirc, the police were staking him out and saw him out jogging every morning. Why didn't they just get him while he was out jogging? Why endanger so many people? So many followers would be alive today. Koresh was definitely to blame, too. His ego was too big to let the children out, and that's another reason so many people were killed. It's just an all around fucked up situation.
He didn't fire flammable tear gas into the compound. The authorities could have simply not done that.
He could have simply not put children in harms way. The ATF fucked it too. But Koresh brought this to fruition.
I don't dispute that he started it. But the original comment blames the fire on Koresh, when the ATF should have known that firing a flammable tear gas into a confined space full of children was a terrible idea. David Koresh was a criminal, but he didn't set the fires. The ATF is responsible for those deaths. That's all I'm saying.
I don’t have that take away from the comment. Tear gas is used frequently and almost always without a fire starting. As far as I have seen, there is no conclusive evidence as to how the fires started. Once shots are fired the kids are at risk. It’s true in any hostage situation. And this was a hostage situation. Minors being held after offers to send them to safety in a dangerous situation is a hostage scenario. There was almost no chance that the Feds were gonna come out of this looking good. Koresh wasn’t going to walk away and be arrested and probably spend the rest of his life in jail. He took those children down with his ship.
>All well and good, but not at the expense of burning children alive. From the OC. Koresh didn't burn those children alive, the ATF did. >Tear gas is used frequently and almost always without a fire starting. As far as I have seen, there is no conclusive evidence as to how the fires started. The type of tear gas used is specific, and known to be flammable. [According to court documents,](https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2000-07-07/77866/#:~:text=CS%20%2D%2D%20the%20common%20name,a%20deadly%20gas%2C%20hydrogen%20cyanide.) From the article: >Invented in 1928, CS is called a "super tear gas" because it works instantaneously, causing burning eyes, coughing, breathing difficulty, stinging skin, and vomiting. CS -- the common name for orthochlorbenzalmalononitrile -- is a fine white powder, about the consistency of talcum powder, and it must be spread with some type of dispersing agent. But it has several nasty qualities, including its flammability. When burned, CS releases a deadly gas, hydrogen cyanide. And when methylene chloride -- the dispersing agent of choice -- is burned, it releases deadly hydrogen chloride and chlorine. Both chemicals, in turn, release large amounts of carbon monoxide. According to the Failure Analysis report, 44 of the 76 bodies recovered from Mount Carmel tested positive for cyanide. And according to the coroner's report, a quarter of the deaths at Mount Carmel were caused by carbon monoxide asphyxiation, while another 27% died of smoke inhalation.
Nah dude, DK is. Step away for a sec and look back in again. DK held a powerful position and he used it. There may have been bumbling idiots on the other side but they had to do something right? Hindsight is great, but at the end of the day only one guy could have solved this one real quick.
If he would have sex with children, it is doubtful he thought about their well being in that moment as well.
Doesn't change the fact that he didn't set any fires. Regardless of Koresh's actions, the ATF and the FBI were also responsible for their wellbeing.
But he DID set the fires. You’re rewriting history.
Didn’t some of the survivors say they were sexually abused by Korean when they were still children?
Yep. That doesn't mean David Koresh fired the flammable tear gas into the compound.
How was that relevant to what he said?
Why does everyone ignore the audio of Koresh's followers discussing where he said to pour the gasoline and the forensics of the case? First of all cyanide forms naturally during decomposition. perfectly routine to find cyanide in dead bodies even when they weren't poisoned. The forensic pathologist found zero evidence that CS gas played a role in any of the deaths and *specifically points out how misleading C02 levels in a dead body* can be in this regard. None of them showed massive levels of CS in their systems either. Koresh almost certainly knew they would use ordinance that would spark. There were three sites with clear evidence of accelerant being used within the compound. This tracks with the audio recording mentioned. The victims who were shot were shot *from inside the compound* and there is zero forensic evidence indicating the feds killed anyone by bullet. The feds were obviously wildly aggressive in a way that borders on criminality but c'mon. We can't just ignore the forensics, audio recordings, and the pathology reports. Claiming the feds are solely responsible for the fire is simply nonsense. Also pointing this out isn't being pro feds. It's simply forensic science. Forensic Pathology Evaluation of the 1993 Branch Davidian Deaths ... https://www.apologeticsindex.org/pdf/Graham.pdf
The Ariel footage shows deliberate ignition in 3 strategic locations within minutes of each other and there’s audio of DK referring to the fuel being poured. Having said that, i would have gone with the crisis negotiators way of approaching it, even at the end , no matter how much longer it took but instead the Hostage rescue teams decided to override the agreements made between DK and the crisis teams and start pumping in tear gas and sending in the tanks . Plus the stockpile of ammunition was apparently blasting all over the show too. DK Was responsible for the shit show he presided over but the Hostage rescue team were at fault too for the way in which they lost patience and let the testosterone plus anger at losing 4 of their own men, get to them and brutally went in for the rapid end to the conflict. Many lessons were (hopefully) learned but unfortunately at the cost of so many lives. However, it was also a first of its kind and even the best trained people were at a loss of exactly what to do and they didn’t expect the serving of a firearm warrant to result in this . It’s always easier when you look at it with the benefit of hindsight but I would not have wanted to be there and I applaud the courage of those that did their best. The crisis negotiations are still affected to this day.
Unbeknownst to the ATF agent, koresh and his followers poured gasoline all over the compound prior to the tanks filling the place with tear gas. American Experience - Oklahoma City (59 minutes into the documentary) goes into depth about the Oklahoma City bombing and its connections to Waco and Ruby Ridge.
[And yet...](https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2000-07-07/77866/#:~:text=CS%20%2D%2D%20the%20common%20name,a%20deadly%20gas%2C%20hydrogen%20cyanide.)
"But it has several nasty qualities, including its flammability. When burned, CS releases a deadly gas, hydrogen cyanide. And when methylene chloride -- the dispersing agent of choice -- is burned, it releases deadly hydrogen chloride and chlorine. Both chemicals, in turn, release large amounts of carbon monoxide. According to the Failure Analysis report, 44 of the 76 bodies recovered from Mount Carmel tested positive for cyanide. And according to the coroner's report, a quarter of the deaths at Mount Carmel were caused by carbon monoxide asphyxiation, while another 27% died of smoke inhalation." That is important context that was left out of the documentary I mentioned. Thanks for sharing.
Everyone is so focused on who started the fires since that was the ultimate cause of death of the children. Why is no one pointing out that the ATF and FBI literally used a chemical weapon that was so aggressive the US signed a pact to stop using it DURING WAR 6 damn days before the siege. The US agreed not to use that tear gas on enemy combatants on open fields of war but the ATF and FBI decided to use it in an enclosed space full of children who couldn't control whether they were there or not?! After that link I read a little more about the chemical. Those kids were in for suffering and death the second that was used in a boarded up building, fires or no fires.
Hmm. Then there wouldn’t be pictures of David chip man smiling over burnt bodies then would there be…. Oh wait.
The CS gas wasn’t what started or fueled the fire. Go away with your conspiracy theories:
Do t forget the sole, bootlicker
In the concentration it was at, yes it was. Continue licking those boots. Funny a year ago you were screaming acab. Look at you now. Sad. Go ahead and defend the atf agent taking a picture smiling over charred bodies.
You hit the nail on the head with what's wrong with people today. What we say and really believe does *not* jive with the reality. We've all started gaslighting ourselves and I can't figure out why. But pisses people off to no end to point that out it's like the story of my life this weekend
Bro I'm genuinely curious how you think tear gas set off THREE SIMULTANEOUS fires HOURS after. Like cmon man let's not be stupid.
The only people who deserve any sympathy were the children their parents killed and the federal agents who died in the line of duty.
Bro. The atf took pictures on top of charred bodies smiling after the raid.
Ramming the compound with tanks was just to make ventilation holes for when they threw in CS gas that's flammable and then ignited it with flash bangs. The ATF knew exactly what they were doing
LOLOL, that didn’t happen:
That's exactly what happened
Is that Tucker’s version?
This is well before tucker or Fox News time kid. Lick them cop boots while out the other side of your mouth you scream acab. Pathetic.
The truth usually does upset bootlicking statist such as yourself
Im so upset. Look lady, I’m just going off of facts.
Naw, your carrying water for feds
Yes
Or fill it with an amount of cs had that is on that concentration extremely flammable. Or the atf not taking pictures over the bodies of charred children
Koresh was a mentally ill narcissist. None of it had to happen. They executed the warrant on a fucking Sunday when the most Davidians would be there. Most of those people did not live at the compound, and even if they did, they had jobs off the compound. They could have done it on a week day. They could have arrested Koresh any other day of the week when he went out running. They wanted a big body count, and they got it.
You know what really set him off? When they ran over that garage that had his classic El Camino inside. Hell that even hurt me when I saw it. I believe it was a 67 if I remember right
**PLEASE LET'S NOT TURN THIS INTO A HUGE CONSPIRACY ARGUMENT. YOU'RE WELCOME TO CROSSPOST THIS TO r/Conspiracy FOR THAT TYPE OF DISCUSSION.** The Waco siege, also known as the Waco massacre, was the law enforcement siege of the compound that belonged to the religious cult Branch Davidians. It was carried out by the U.S. federal government, Texas state law enforcement, and the U.S. military, between February 28 and April 19, 1993. The Branch Davidians were led by David Koresh and were headquartered at Mount Carmel Center ranch in the community of Axtell, Texas, 13 miles (21 kilometers) northeast of Waco. Suspecting the group of stockpiling illegal weapons, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) obtained a search warrant for the compound and arrest warrants for Koresh as well as a select few of the group's members. The incident began when the ATF attempted to raid the ranch in order to serve a search and arrest warrant. An intense gunfight erupted, resulting in the deaths of four ATF agents and six Branch Davidians. Upon the ATF's entering of the property and failure to execute the search warrant, a siege lasting 51 days was initiated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Eventually, the FBI launched a tear gas attack on April 19, 1993, in an attempt to force the Branch Davidians out of the ranch. Shortly thereafter, the Mount Carmel Center became engulfed in flames. The fire resulted in the deaths of 76 Branch Davidians, including 25 children, two pregnant women, and David Koresh. The events of the siege and attack, particularly the origin of the fire, are disputed by various sources. Department of Justice reports from October 1993 and July 2000 conclude that although incendiary tear gas canisters were used by the FBI, the Branch Davidians had started the fire, based on listening devices overhearing their discussion, and evidence that showed at least three simultaneous ignition points. The FBI contends that none of their agents fired any live rounds on the day of the fire. Critics contend that live rounds were fired by law enforcement, and suggest that a combination of gunshots and flammable tear gas was the true cause of the fire. The Waco siege was cited by Timothy McVeigh as the main reason for his and Terry Nichols's plan to execute the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19, 1995, as well as the modern-day American militia movement and a rise in opposition to firearm regulation. Tons more in the Wikipedia article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege I took all my photos from Google Images.
> The FBI contends that none of their agents fired any live rounds on the day of the fire. :| come on... you don't need to lie.
it's habitual at this point they gotta fit one in somewhere
Ahhh yes, ATF, the child killers. This wasn’t a siege, it was an ATF backed slaughter
how did the atf kill the children?
They led the siege and had started a fire at the exit/entrance of the basement where every davidian was hiding. Thus leading to every member, including children, to burning to death with no way to escape.
There are literally audio recordings of Karesh talking about setting the building in fire that day.
do you have a link?
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2018/04/18/how-the-branch-davidians-set-the-fires-for-a-self-fulfilling-prophecy-of-their-doomsday/
in that whole article there are only two "quotes" that could even relate to it, and its only a half a sentence each. they could be talking about anything.
[By assisting the FBI in filling the compound with highly flammable tear gas.](https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2000-07-07/77866/#:~:text=CS%20%2D%2D%20the%20common%20name,a%20deadly%20gas%2C%20hydrogen%20cyanide.)
The ATF should’ve been abolished after this.
So should have been the police several times...
Botched raid at its finest and so many innocent people died.
Waco: Rules of Engagement is a pretty great doc on this.
Thanks, I wanna check it out.
One thing about waco back in the 90s that cult was on fire.
The miniseries Waco was really good. Starring Taylor Kitsch, Michael Shannon, melissa Benoist, Julie Garner, Rory Culkin, John Leguizamo, and Glenn Fleshler. Pretty historically accurate if I recall correctly.
It sucks that the people who believed and followed Koresh and were truly too ignorant to know any better died, but, Koresh was a rapist, child molestor, a liar, manipulator, and extremist. How can anyone possibly defend a person like that? Koresh had 51 days to either surrender or let people go who wanted to. The stand off began violently and ended way worse. I remember watching the news in school when it was all going on. I remember the testimony that aired and all the conspiracy theories that formed after. Just like any other hostage situation or extremely FUBAR circumstance, hindsight is always 20/20. But to defend Koresh, that's really absurd. There's so much information that will never be released to the public regarding the years of investigation prior to the fire, and we'll never know about it or why the decisions were truly made that day. Unfortunately for the truly innocent people in the building (kids), it's these situations where training occurs hopefully for the better. Sometimes, shit just goes horribly wrong and people will always die. Just the way it is. I'm sure law enforcement could have turned a blind eye and caught the ones they were after later on and avoided the history books. Woulda, shoulda, coulda and really, none of that matters now. People died because of mistakes. To err is human and people died that go around. It's literally been mankind's existence and will always continue as long as humans are present in the world. We're all too stupid to get along and all too stupid to be decent. Then we trust the same stupid people to govern us. We're fucked! Just sit back, chill, watch the world burn, and enjoy our very short lives while we can. We will never learn from all of the horrible things that happen.
Unfortunately I think you’re pretty spot on.
I remember watching this when the news started broadcasting, periodically during the long standoff, and at the end. It was horrible and is forever burned in my memory. Even typing this my heart is heavy for all those whose lives were lost.
What exactly did this guy do wrong? I know what is written but why kill everyone. Aren't we allowed to have a bunch of people living together in a community?
He did gross shit with children like marrying one or two and there were reports of child abuse in the compound. Law enforcement shouldn't have shown up the way they did and instigated at every possible situation
Yeah they claimed it was to save the kids and then killed all the kids.
He released some of the children, just not "his" children. The ATF raid was due to a package that was destined for the compound. It had opened, and the US postal worker found grenades.
Oh. I didn't know that. Damn. Ok.
I recommend Wendigoon's video on the topic, very good story teller and lays down all the facts
He claimed to be Jesus and took many young girls as "brides", some of them as young as 12.
Why the hell didn't I know about this. Maybe I'm thinking of a different case I don't know. It amazes me the power that one person can produce. The followings that they get. Kind of like the Pied Piper.
they were stockpiling weapons, which caught them on the ATF’s radar, and David Koresh was marrying and having sex with children who were in his cult
Oh okay. I must be thinking of somebody else. I thought it was this case that I knew about but maybe not. I don't know maybe there was a case in Colorado or somewhere where a man his wife and two or three kids. There was so warrant out for the father for failure to appear I believe. They weren't doing anything wrong in my eyes and I think two out of the four were shot. Maybe that's the case I'm thinking of.
I believe you’re thinking of Ruby Ridge, which occurred very shortly before Waco.
Ya. Maybe that was it. 🤦🏻♀️ Thank you.
If I remember correctly, they were to arrest him for selling a shotgun that supposedly was too short. They had plenty of opportunities to arrest him outside of the compound.
You’re thinking of ruby ridge. This compound had TONs of illegal machine guns and grenades. The ATF was serving a search warrant for this. Hence the armed response.
It's contentious and unconfirmed, but the reports at the time were that he was abusing children: what is known for sure was that he had married a child, which is ethically monstrous but was actually perfectly *legal*, I'm not kidding. All things considered, you shouldn't think if Koresh as some innocent everyman, even in spite of my next paragraph. None of that really matters, as the stated reason for feds to get involved was actually a firearms charge, alleging that two members of the church were illegally building and selling automatic weapons. This was almost certainly false, which is part of why a lot of people get very, very angry about the fact that children died over it.
man they based a criminal minds episode off of this i think
I grew up in Waco and about 8 miles from there. ATF screwed this up badly. Also, if you watch the actual videos you’ll see two ATF agents go in the window upstairs and the third one starts firing on the other two. Bunch of idiots. David Korean used to jog out there all the time and could have been easily picked up by law enforcement. Instead they had to do this bungled raid. Then on top of that I was on the rescue and clean up team at OKC bombing (stationed near there).
Wasn't Janet Reno the Attorney General who gave the order to the feds to raid the compound ? How tf did she survive this disaster ?
Why not blame the people who broke the law?
Yeah I do blame the feds. Especially the atf.
This dude thought he was a rock star and a preacher all in one. He was neither. The ATF made a colossal fuck up with this, though.
"Davidian" is really good, recommended.
Great post thanks for sharing these
No problem, looks like I'll have to break it down into three posts due to the high volume of photos. The most shocking are yet to come.
I was 14 years old and lived in Waco when the compound burned down, I remember seeing the smoke from our house. Was a very sad event for everyone involved, this would be a moment in time that would change if the laws of physics permitted.
I remember watching this live. It was 1993 and I was 16. I didn’t totally understand what was happening, but I knew that it wouldn’t end well. If you want a good explanation of Waco and what happened, Last Podcast on the Left has an excellent series. Here’s the link: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0sJD7eBfCxuQchCUTyBUzP?si=5Zy_4Fb_SbeZy-RrmPZTIA Just a warning LPOTL is a comedy podcast. When they cover crime, of course the stories are real. So, just a warning if true crime with a comedic spin is not for you.
Y’all watch the new documentary on Netflix! My really good friend is part of the show. He was the news caster that filmed the stand off.
Screw the ATF and FBI
nice.. there is a Netflix documentary comming soon. will be watching it.
R6 Map.
Our government didn't give a shit about the fact that there were kids in there. Same shit as ruby ridge.
The cult leader or their parents didn’t care about the kids either.
So they burn the place down and take pictures on top of theirs charred remains?
Tell me one more time why they couldn’t have just waited for him to come out then pulled him over in a traffic stop?
For the longest time I thought the Davidians were the main antagonizing force but then I saw a doc that showed the inquiry where they grilled ATF/FBI and they claimed they didn’t shoot first but aerial footage was shown with heat signatures and the outsiders shot first. It’s terrible that docs are allowed to be so biased.
For a guy who doesnt know can someone explain what happened
Religious group suspected of stockpiling illegal weapons, ATF attempts a raid and shootout ensues, ATF pushed back and the FBI moves in, standoff for literally 51 days, FBI launch a tear gas attack and a fire starts (origin of the fire is heavily debated). The end result was only 4 federal agents killed, 82 members of the group killed including women and children.
WOAH WTF 😬
The kicker is there were many opportunities to catch the leader while he was out in town, or even wait until he went out into town again. Trying to raid a large building with an unknown number of guns was not a bright idea.
Too many three letter government organizations involved. Something bad was bound to happen. The ATF should’ve been abolished immediately after this.
Why are the photos marked NSFW?
Hey mate, I wasn’t sure if this was a joke or not so I checked out your profile…. You seem to be open to checking out different and curious stuff which I totally understand, I’m often curious too. But just FYI, photos of burnt dead bodies are usually not great to show people without warning. That’s why they are marked as NSFW.
Ah, oh okay which I’m that case that’s very understandable then. To be honest I couldn’t see anything sinister in the photo is all 😅
All good, I’ve actually now realized why you asked. I thought your comment was on one of the Waco posts that had only pictures of burnt dead bodies.
Absolutely heartbreaking for both parties. An abs disaster. This and Ruby Ridge were a cluster fuck of mistakes made by the ATF. I don't know how accurate it would be, but I personally think that if the media didn't immediately get involved, it possibly (emphasis on possibly!) Could have been resolved faster and hopefully with less bloodshed
How did he have the money for that place?
The Branch Davidians are (yes they still exist) an off shoot of the Seventh Day Adventists that has existed since the 1920's or 1930s. They owned the property in Waco wayyyyyyy before David Koresh came on the scene. Plus, most of the members had regular jobs and supported the church just like in any other religion. The Branch Davidians still own the property.
Ok wow! First of all I had the same question, where did the money come from? But wait a sec, are you serious? The BD still exists?
Yes ma'am they do, and they still own that property in Waco.
FYI I’m not female but that’s ok. I’d love to know what the owners of that property think about all of this in 2023
I believe there's info online about it. I haven't been there but I'm pretty sure the property is open to the public.
How could anyone fall for this con?
Fuck these people they all got what they deserved
I remember sitting in the Mess Hall at Ft Hood during lunch watching the initial arrest attempt live on the local network station out of Waco.
ATF degenerates doing what they do best
BRO. This is the building from Postal 2! I just realized it and damn. There was a mission in that building with the commando as well in that game😅
?
What a coincidence, i just finished the documentary on netflix.. what a disaster this was…
Will be there Saturday
Warm!
Funny that after years of Reddit saying acab they all of the sudden want to lick the boots of the ATF after one Netflix doc.
Does no one else think he lots alot like tom hardy?
what guitar is he playing ???
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“Branch Davidian” was the name of their religious sect. I mean, it's kinda like asking why we call rabbits "rabbit" and not just "animal". Words are like mental shortcuts for longer concepts. "Cult of freaks" doesn't really differentiate them from the thousands of other cults. Or freaks for that matter.
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Ok, nice critical thinking skills there, kid. Good luck with all that.
These are not crime scene photos, they’re photos from the media
We allow reporting on anything death related with a backstory. And the Part two are definitely crime scene photos, you can even observe crime scene tape on a few. Part 3 and 4 that are coming soon are most definitely crime scene photos, they will be photos of burned victims taken at the coroner's office.
How and why is this NSFW?
Anything and everything posted in this subreddit is automatically labeled NSFW. For one it has violent images, like an ATF agent being carried away shot.
Are you aware of what NSFW means?
what happened
Check out the doco on Netflix mate, that’ll give you a good idea 👍🏼
Just finished watching this. And I'm so shocked at how badly this was handled by "professionals". They fxcked up from the start and were so over the top and heavy handed.
Seeing 16,now i know where that meme cones from lol
Far cry 5 musics playing in my head now