Daily Discussion Thread | August 28, 2021
By - AutoModerator
[Vaccine FAQ Part I](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/wiki/faq#wiki_where_can_i_find_information_about_the_mechanism_and_progress_of_vaccines.3F)
[Vaccine FAQ Part II](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/mnitdo/vaccine_faq_variants_chronic_conditions_nsaids)
[Vaccine appointment finder](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/wiki/faq/vaccinefinder)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Coronavirus) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I got a question I started a bag of chips so when I get health can I eat those chips still or do I have to throw them away
After the last week and the comments that some public figures are making behind closed doors, I have ran out of fucks to give. It's time to regulate social media hard when this is over. Giving the village idiot a microphone was and still is a major mistake.
Yep comments become popular because of the reaction they inspire in people rather than their truth or actual basis in fact.
But the social media cat is out of the bag. Not sure what we can do now. If someone wants to make their life decisions based on a private Facebook group there's only so much you can do.
Do we have any real world evidence yet on the actual impact of a third shot of mRNA? I realize we are seeing huge increases in the number of antibodies, but wondering how that is translating into real world protection.
I do not think there have been any studies, in fact I don't think there are any studies showing the need or benefit for a third shot. The theory is that the effectiveness wanes after 6-7 months and a booster will prolong it but even that is just a theory. Even if the efficacy declines it is also entirely possible that it stabilizes at that point.
Singapore has announced that they have reached [80% of total population fully vaccinated](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-29/singapore-hits-80-vaccine-threshold-seen-as-key-to-more-easing?sref=Qd5CKovW).
For context, Singapore mostly administers Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines, with about 85,000 people vaccinated with Sinovac.
Your comment has been automatically removed because the linked source may not be reliable or may be dedicated mostly to political coverage. If possible, please re-submit with a link to a reliable or non-political source, such as a reliable news organization or an recognized institution.
Thank you for helping us keep information in /r/Coronavirus reliable!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Coronavirus) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Does VO2 Max pertain in any way to determining COVID diagnosis, risk level or prognosis?
For example, would having a low VO2 Max mean you should go get tested the same way a low blood oxygen level (measured by an oximeter) would warrant it?
I’m really only asking as a common layman with very little knowledge on the matter.
My kids are not vaccine eligible yet and school starts in a week. We have “meet the teacher” this week. What are your thoughts on asking the teachers if they are vaccinated? The school district put out a statement that only 60% of staff have the vaccine, which is pathetic. Not sure I want my young kids with someone not vaccinated all day.
I would definitely ask. Frankly my view is that if a teacher is not vaccinated at this point then they need to explain why, it seems reckless given what we know now.
I’m a teacher and openly put this info out on my “meet the teacher” email. I feel like most vaccinated staff wouldn’t mind you asking.
Ask away. You're being asked to entrust your children to the care of this person.
According to Bloomberg today we passed 5.2 Billion worldwide doses! Days from:
0-400M: 94 days
400-800M: 27 days (April 13th)
800M-1.2B: 22 days (May 5th)
1.2- 1.6B: 16 days (May 21st)
1.6B- 2B: 13 days (June 3rd)
2B - 2.4B: 12 days (June 15th)
2.4- 2.8B: 9 days (June 24th)
2.8 - 3.2B: 11 days (July 5th)
3.2B - 3.6B: 13 days (July 18th)
3.6 - 4B: 11 days (July 29th)
4 - 4.4B: 9 days (August 7th)
4.4 - 4.8B : 11 days (August 18th)
4.8 - 5.2B: 10 days (August 28th)
7 day average is currently 39.9M/day up from 37.5M/day
Not gonna lie, the antivaxxers being extremely frustrated over the vaccine mandates from their workplaces is bringing me great joy.
My 70+ relative had a unexpected positive response to 1st AstraZeneca vaccine - all of her arthritis/rheumatism pain in knees, hips and shoulders disappeared. She was dancing around and even put on some high heel shoes. She has had knee and hip replacements, normally uses walking stick, has to wear flat shoes for security and is slow walking speed. Unfortunately it was short lived and 2 days later she is back to normal. Is there anyway I can find out more - is this a known/expected phenomenon? Is there opportunity to extend the benefit or was it likely to be just a one-off.
Wow! Yeah that sounds awesome.
I am not a medical professional but I am going to guess it had something to do with affecting inflammation in the body? It would be great if she could get better relief of symptoms. Good luck and thank you for sharing that anecdote! Hope others will be helped by your story!
Anyone know when we can get booster shots? I got my first shot of moderna Feb 24th and my second shot March 24th. Planning on taking a trip to Europe September 12th so hoping I can get it before I leave.
The phase 1 trials are run at 6 months after the most recent dose, on a half-dose for moderna, and show extremely good measurable immunity results.
When are the lockdowns going to end? I just want this to be over already. Put this behind us and have an end to this story.
Depends which country you’re in
I live in Canada.
I don’t think you guys are in a lockdown, right? I have a friend in Ontario and they had one like a few months ago but it was just a few restrictions on things.
What country are you in
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7833280/ surveyed multiple reports. maybe a week or two appears to be typical but it can go longer.
How come as far into the pandemic as we now are there is still no good way, hell most hospitals don’t even allow it period, for family to visit with hospitalized family members with covid?? The initial concern was how contagious it was. Then it was PPE. Well, now we know how contagious it is. Proper PPE is available in the US. What’s the reason now?
I think this would actually do the patients a LOT of good to know their family cares about them and could actually increase survivability.
this varies on a hospital by hospital basis -- some hospitals around me are starting to let vaccinated and/or tested visitors back in.
All I know is my partners mom and grandma are critical and they said no visitors period they told them that’s the policy nationwide. So no no source other than what I’m being told.
This is in my state.
We were told we couldn’t visit no matter what.
That was how it was phrased to me.
What’s the protocol if you’re fully vaccinated and come in contact with someone who tested positive? Is still carry on unless you get symptoms or did that change?
CDC says get tested 3-5 days after, and wear a mask in indoor public spaces while waiting for results, or for 2 weeks if you don't test. There's no need to isolate unless you get a positive test result.
*or if you develop symptoms
Yes, forgot to add that.
I was informed that you just go about normal life unless you are having symptoms or test positive. Both my jobs say if you’re exposed but vaxxed they don’t care unless you’re symptomatic.
I've had really bad acid reflux ever since my 2nd pfizer jab two days ago... is this normal?
Never heard of it before but google does turn up some results.
Are you drinking lots of from dehydration? That can throw off your ph balance. Make sure you get enough foods; electrolyte mixes often include some sort of buffering.
There’s a chance I may have to be vaccinated soon because of school- is anyone seriously concerned about what it’s going to do to our bodies in the long run? I’m not trying to sound like an ass but its a serious concern of mine. Everyone says “it’s safe” but how does anyone actually know? I’m terrified of getting it-I’ve worn my masks since this pandemic started and I haven’t been sick yet, I understand it being a necessary thing for healthcare workers who treat people with COVID/are in those types of environments but do they even know what it could do to them in the long run?
(For the record I’m not anti-vax, I’ve had all my shots at the doctors office and whatnot when I was younger, I am just very suspicious because of how fast this came out and I’m not sure what to think)
First, the science behind the mRNA in the vaccine has been in development for decades, a lot of the framework was there. It only came out so fast because so much of the work was done, and we’ve never put so much global money and support into development in anything before. The science is solid, and it’s not as fast as you think.
Also, There has never been a vaccine that has had long term side effects. Like, in history.
Get your vaccine and help us all move on to normal life.
The reason every credible expert says it's safe, is because it's safe. There is no such thing as a late side effect from a vaccine. There is no long run. All vaccine side effects in the history of vaccines occur within six weeks of vaccination. What you are left with is immune memory, and that's been well understood for decades. mRNA is not new- it's how the virus makes proteins to reproduce in your body when you are infected, in much greater quantities than what you get in a vaccine. And it's so fragile it's gone in a day or two.
The vaccines you received as a child were studied much less than this one when they were first used-- like measles vaccine was tested in a few hundred children one fall and the following spring the mass vaccination campaign started.
If you don’t get the vaccine you’re rolling the dice hoping you don’t get covid and have serious issues from that. The Vaccine FAQ for this subreddit has a lot of good info. Talk to your doctor if you can.
I know many, many people who had the vaccine and *none* have had side effects beyond feeling crappy for a day.
My boyfriend got covid last April. He stayed in bed for three full weeks. He really believed he was going to die. He now has pulmonary fibrosis (his meds cost him $1000 a month for 6 months), cardiac problems and severe, extreme fatigue. He will never be the same.
I think caught COVID despite getting my second Moderna dose on 7/23 (and therefore already fully vaxxed). The community spread is insane here testing is booked up til Thursday and Friday of next week with the at home tests all out of stock. Tomorrow morning we are getting up and lining up at an urgent care hoping we can be seen for a test. Still hoping for a negative, but with this weird dry cough, odd tight feeling in my chest, and my tastebuds all out of whack, I don’t know what else could be going on. Is it possible to have a breakthrough case so soon after being vaccinated?
There's nothing special about having just gotten vaccinated. Your immune system after vaccination will prevent 70-90% of infections, and reduce the severity of others by maybe 70%, but that still leaves some risk.
My local hospital starting putting out numbers on vaccinated vs unvaccinated patients this week. We are an area where roughly 55% of the people are vaccinated (pitiful). The local hospital is averaging 30% of thee hospitalized patients are vaccinated.
I'm finding that pretty disheartening. I thought the number would be much lower, especially with the breakthrough levels being reported so low and the touted benefits of being vaccinated (I have been for months).
Feeling my anxiety go up with school starting Monday for my 2 kids too young to be vaccinated.
It can be true that 0.01% of people that are hospitalized are vaccinated, and that 30% of hospitalized people are vaccinated, especially with a small sample, like how many people are we talking about? I have seen headlines like "50% of new Covid patients are vaccinated" and it turns out it is 8 people.
The people that end up hospitalized are primarily older with other health conditions.
Keep in mind that vaccine effectiveness seems to wane after 4-6 months if it was an mRNA. a lot of people are walking around without a care in the world, when their vaccine effectiveness might be somewhere around 40-60%.
It’s closer to 75% vaccinated.. as kids still make a much lower number is covid.. if you extrapolate that 75 to where it’s 50/50 you will notice that number is probably still around 85-90
Almost all hospitalizations are over 50, and that group is far more than 50% vaccinated.
That’s interesting. Is that nationwide. Don’t know where OP is, but I haven’t seen that information anywhere. I’m in the pushing 50 crowd.
That varies greatly by region too. Nationwide statistics you can find here:
Remember the most vulnerable were vaccinated first and most. If they gave a breakdown by age, you would be happier, although not thrilled, with the number.
Definitely not dangerous. The inactivated vaccines are vastly better than no vaccine at all. If you have the chance, jump at it.
Anti-vaxxers are posting this study, saying that the delta variant is now immune to the vaccine : [https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.22.457114v1.full.pdf](https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.22.457114v1.full.pdf)
How likely is this study, coming from a site that releases non-peer reviewed studies, to be accurate on it?
I mean the headline of the article is "*is poised* to acquire complete resistance" which is very much not the same thing as being already resistant, and there are plenty of studies showing that the existing vaccines work well against all known variants including Delta, South African, etc.
0 likely. The authors are selling cloned antibodies to try to solve this problem they've described that has no real world backing at all.
Previously discussed here:
Your comment has been removed because
* **You should contribute only high-quality information.** We require that users submit reliable, fact-based information to the subreddit and provide an English translation for an article in the comments if necessary. ([More Information](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_5.3A_keep_information_quality_high))
If you believe we made a mistake, please [message the moderators](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Coronavirus&subject=Removed comment&message=I'm writing to you about the following comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/pd53uz/daily_discussion_thread_august_28_2021/haqvhr2/).
Can someone explain to me why I have to mask even when fully vaccinated. My employers is mandating it Monday. Having a hard time with it myself. I'd say 70% are vaxxed at work. Mind you it is a manufacturing facility. I mean if you look at the stats it's very rare to see hospitalizations and deaths if vaccinated. Ok so who cares if I get mild flu symptoms never mattered pre covid. Then the ones that's aren't vaccinated have had months to do so and quite honestly they don't care either. Struggling to see the end in site. Is it really zero covid bc if it is then we will be doing this a very long time. That's my rant 🤪
It’s really really frustrating that vaccinated people have been forced back in to masks. Hopefully we’re all going to move on soon.
Your right I should blindly never question what my employer tells me to do 😆 That's never will bite me later
Because it helps stops the spread of Covid. And kids under 12 can’t get vaccinated yet. I feel like once they can the mask mandates will go away.
Don't mean to be rude but no kids work there. Plus who's to say after work I got to the gas station which has no mask mandates or my local nfl game with 100 thousand ppl that's also has no mask mandate idk just doesn't make alot of sense. It's either all the mandates or none at all.
I agree that picking and choosing mandates is dumb. It would be better to have universal masking everywhere. But some is better than none in my mind.
Because people you work with have kids, and because your work can't control what you do after work.
The local schools around me masks are optional here. I just hate the idea that masks are then end all be all. Like cmon every country that imposed mask mandates last winter. Cases still went up. Just think at this point ppl can make there own decisions. I was all for restrictions when we did not know much about this virus.
Not to mention unless your wearing a mask correctly and the right mask like a n95 the efficiency is not all that high. I get something is better then nothing but cmon.
I've seen people claiming that if you have had "not mild" side effects from the vaccine, that having the real virus would be worse.
For example having headaches, fever and more "serious" side effects of the vaccine would indicate that the real virus would have given you way worse side effects.
Is this claim true, why or why not?
No one really knows because younger people get worse vaccine side effects but also tend to have milder Covid. Also Covid you breathe in vs a shot that is injected.
Could mean if Covid got into your lungs you would have it bad with cytokines storm but could also mean your immune system would have freaked out as soon as Covid hit your nose and got rid of it.
So does anyone know how/why Washington state suddenly has a test positivity rate of 32%? I know cases are high there but that seems like a data mistake.
They say that 80% of new infections are among 20% of the population. My theory is that the recent wave is based primarily on the change in people's behaviors and schools reopening in combination with a more infectious variant. Basically there was 20% of the population unvaccinated and vulnerable and we just needed the right combination of events to get them together and exposed.
Copying my post from a little further down
> The state reported a 9% positivity on 8/12. Dates after that are in grey because of reporting lag. Negative test results take longer to record.
> Click the Testing tab and see their note above the graph posted on Friday.
Does anybody have any studies/statistics on how effective vaccines are at preventing spread of the delta variant? Not talking about preventing symptomatic infection, hospitalization, or death; just spread
There's limited and inconsistent data on how much they reduce total infections. The UK shows 88% for Pfizer, which is pretty consistent with US numbers. We've used a shorter dose interval that is going to be worse. But Israel shows much lower numbers; it's possible these apply only to older people. With the US one- month dosing interval it might be down around 80% now (a number other studies have given). The difference from 80% to 90% is a factor of 2 - pretty significant uncertainty. It's likely a booster would bring this back up at least to original levels (95%) for everyone.
That's a lower bound on how much vaccines prevent transmission. We don't know exactly how much more they do once you're infected. A Singapore study (keyword: kinetics) showed the same peak viral load, but with the viral load dropping off at least twice as fast in the vaccinated. Another study showed that the viral load in vaccinated people was less likely to be infectious, though. This value is probably at least 50% and could be much higher. For alpha it appeared to be at least 90% (keyword: initial reduction in viral load), but this research hasn't been duplicated for delta.
Just saw this posted elsewhere:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DemocraticUnderground/comments/p1rlhf/biontech\_third\_vaccine\_dose\_will\_be\_needed\_but\_no/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DemocraticUnderground/comments/p1rlhf/biontech_third_vaccine_dose_will_be_needed_but_no/) , titled "BioNTech: Third vaccine dose will be needed, but no need to adapt for Delta variant" , quotes "... but BioNTech doesn't see the need to retool the vaccine to target the highly infectious Delta variant. "
I thought they had already started developing a booster vaccine modified for Delta and were applying fo clinical trials. What happened? Why did they decide to not pursue it?
There was talk of creating modified vaccines specially for the variants but last I read this fizzled out because there was not enough need i.e. the existing vaccines are effective enough. Which is obviously in contrast to the people saying we should take a third shot. A lot of doctors and scientists were confused by the whole third shot thing.
Moderna did the same thing, the different spike did basically nothing extra in terms of neutralization by antibodies compared to a booster with the original.
Exactly this, and sticking with a third dose of the same formulation cuts out a lot of regulatory time and expense. Plus we already have an excess of those doses waiting to be used so it helps a lot with logistics. K.I.S.S. :)
It's in testing but a third shot of the original vaccine seems to boost immunity enough. It sounds like Delta doesn't evade antibodies particularly well, it just replicates and infects so much more that its getting around the immune response as the first doses start to wane.
Oh that's great news!
Are there any sources I could read up on this?
I genuinely wonder, what's the explanation for sudden rise in new cases/covid deaths in Israel even though they have very high vaccination ratio? ~80% of adults fully vaxxed yet it's rising quickly, already reaching numbers from winter
Israel is a very young population, 80% of adults is actually a much lower % of the pop fully vaccinated. Their campaign started the earliest in the world so the waning efficacy for infection hit there first. They also started boosters first and are starting to see slowing case rise because of that. Hospitalization and death numbers are much lower than in previous waves, because of vaccination.
Per covidactnow site, wow Washington has positivity rate of 32% is this correct?
The state reported a 9% positivity on 8/12. Dates after that are in grey because of reporting lag. Negative test results take longer to record.
Click the Testing tab and see their note above the graph posted on Friday.
Ah got it
Even if I'm fully vaccinated, I can't grow out my COVID anxiety. It'd probably have gone all the way done with end of cases, but Delta surgings in well vaccinated countries are making my hope sink. This virus is contagious as chicken pox, possibly serious, vaccines don't fully stop infections and anti-vaxxers exist (and people that avoid masks in general).
If you are taking sensible steps to help protect yourself, you have done what you can. Being proactive can/will hopefully lessen your anxiety. And as other people wrote, don’t wallow in COVID news.
>Even if I'm fully vaccinated, I can't grow out my COVID anxiety.
What you really need to do is turn off the news. Realize that they focus on the fringe cases and worst-case scenarios because that's what gets them clicks and eyeballs.
Think of how unlikely it is that COVID will actually have a negative effect on you as a vaccinated person:
–First, you'd have to catch COVID, which isn't a guarantee.
–Then, you'd actually have to be symptomatic enough for it to matter, and that's also not a guarantee.
–If you were symptomatic, it would most likely be something like a cold or, at the very worst, the flu. You'd likely be over it in a few days.
–If you were somehow unlucky enough to be vaccinated *and* get sick *and* end up severely ill, you're *still* more likely to survive than not.
I tried to get a vaccine today but was turned away because I don't have an ID, despite the website saying that they wouldn't turn me away if I didn't have one. The closest thing I have to an ID is one from high school, but I'm 21 and in college. Could I use this as an ID instead?
Just know that you should try to get your ID ASAP. Not having one is going to cause more and more inconvenience in your life. Frankly I'm surprised you made it to 21 without getting your ID! I would have been going nuts without one around that age.
Try a different pharmacy. Just call and ask what you need.
They aren't supposed to turn you away for lacking an ID. But...
I wonder if they have to start watching out for identity fraud? Could an anti-vaxxer potentially pay someone to go take the vaccine for them? Idk, just a thought. I didn't need an ID either but that was back in April before the mandates began.
Birth certificate will work
You sure? I brought my social security card and they wouldn't even use that.
Call and ask them. That's really strange that they would be requiring ID still. You don't have a photo ID from your college?
Yeah, I'll be honest I don't have a college ID because I was very hesitant to get one since I was afraid they would turn me away since at the time I still didn't have an ID. Very stupid of me, I know. I'm looking at different pharmacies at the moment.
Worldometer put them at 1M cumulative cases in March and 1.3M cumulative cases currently. Last week was about 60k cases total.
I'm not sure. Maybe a difference between positive tests and positive cases? I managed to find cumulative cases on Georgia's dashboard and they do indeed put the 1M mark around 8/17 but the latest figure on the 26th is 1.07M.
The site's a little buggy. It takes a while to load and kept scrolling to the top when I clicked the drop down. Let it load and then on the graph next to the map change it to cumulative cases.
Does anyone have any data or news on COVID at universities with vaccine mandates?
When can I leave quarantine? Last contact with positive person was last saturday and I tested negative yesterday
Every questionnaire I've seen asks if you've been in contact with an infected person in the last 14 days.
Cannot test out of quarantine. Day 10 (gold standard day 14) after last sat. Would be when you can leave. 9/5/21 gold standard.
Are you vaccinated?
Just 1dose of Pfizer
For people not fully vaccinated, the recommendation is to quarantine until 7 days after exposure if you've had a negative test 5 days after exposure.
You should be ok to leave quarantine assuming no symptoms.
Why are you in quarantine if you're not infected?
Cuz I was in contact with 2 positive people I same household sorry should of wrote that down
So I keep hearing “ ughh this covid is negatively affecting my mental “
What is exactly happening?
Guess lke the negativity will never go away. People refuse to talk. Best to let covid continue
clearly i am being the scape goat when the real problem isnt covid but it is people’s inability to get creative and socialize with other people
just because the bar is closed you get depression thats quite pitiful
Over a year of reduced socialization, precautions, economic uncertainty, and fear for your family's health is going to stress anyone.
Denmark, whose health minister said yesterday that the country had fully vaccinated more than 70% of its population, will NO longer consider COVID-19 a “socially critical disease.” It will drop all COVID restrictions as of September 10th.
Delta CAN be contained.
Israel has high vaccination rates too and is seeing their biggest surge in cases so far.
Honestly, non plussed about the idea of a third dose. I had a rough bout with the virus in November, and 48 hours of bad side effects from both doses in April.
No doubt it an unpleasant thought, but anecdotally people say COVID is worse. That’s sort of my thought, “aw man. But I’ll do it.”
I wouldn't think you'd want to invite another rough bout, but you do you
If OP is like me (who also had it in November 2020) the 48 hours of vaccine symptoms were probably difficult to experience. It was traumatic for me - PTSD esque response. I know that sounds weird but those who have gone through rough bouts with the virus like me will likely understand.
I am curious as I read various articles here- would love to hear what everyone’s take is on when, if they were in charge of a state/ country, when would be the time to just remove all mandates and let COVID run its course
To that point, I personally see two important things to consider - 1. It isn’t going anywhere. Even if we get to high vaccination rates, there are places in the world that are years off from that, so variants, outbreaks, hospitalizations, and sadly deaths, will never go to zero and 2. Immune compromised people have always existed, and will always exist
I am just curious what others see as an exit strategy, or would tolerate as an exit strategy. If there is a vaccine available for everyone, and people choose not to take it… do we just let it go? Sure there are breakthrough infections, but if you test positive and have a cold… is that such a big deal if everyone who wants to be vaccinated, already is? That’s my personal take, hopefully people won’t just downvote if they have a different opinion.
I feel the same; it feels like this is never going to end and I want there to be a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm already seeing events happening in 2022 that are saying they will have indoor mask requirements for everyone attending.
Also, this can be an extremely contentious topic. I responded to a tweet a December event made about requiring masks with, "If cases are down by December will the mandate be lifted?" and I got an INSANE amount of abuse from people calling me an anti-masker and a dipshit and all, just because I ASKED if the policy was set in stone. It's unbelievable how sensitive folks are. I think many of these people would be happy to wear a mask for the rest of their life, but I'm not willing to do that. I guess I could call myself extremely pro-vaccine, but pro-mask only when it makes sense.
I believe this is hurting our society, making us more divided (I got quite a few responses from people agreeing with me too) and I just want it to be OVER already.
Except, every person it infects, vaccinated or not, rolls the dice on a potential mutation - and gives an opportunity for a Delta type mutation surprise like India had a few months ago. Then, all of a sudden, you might get an Omega COVID variant that is totally resistant to vaccines, and all of a sudden COVID isn't just "having a cold" again. This is literally what happened with Delta - and it can and will happen again and again unless we can arrest the spread. I don't have any answers, but I know this is the elephant in the room.
Okay, but if we vaccinate a country, say, 90%, what’s to say another variant doesn’t pop up in a less vaccinated country? Do you feel we should keep masks, distancing, quarantines, etc. until the world is at herd immunity? Or is there any point where you think we need to accept the risk?
I've wondered this too. When will we: stop quarantine for exposure and just stay home if you're sick, stop testing asymptomatic people due to work or travel requirements, stop pre determined quarantine for sick people (just return to normal when symptoms resolve),stop testing for minor symptoms (no need to find out what you have if you can recover and rest at home).
At some point it has to stop. It's breaking society. Vaccinated people rarely have anything but minor symptoms. I hate that unvaccinated people are stressing the hospital system but why should the rest of us have to be inconvenienced for their stupidity? And children are missing out on school and childhood experiences for what to most of them is a very minor cold like virus. The consequences of treating pediatric infection like we are is devastating to children.
I am so frustrated with our leaders on this. We need clearly communicated guidelines and a plan. I'm left leaning but have started to feel like some sort of conspiracy theorist due to the loudness of the over cautious vaccinated left.
Yes to all of this! We’ve really got ourselves in quite a pickle.
The testing, the quarantine, and the extreme caution are, as you said, breaking society. Those of us who are more… laissez faire… about the current situation generally get grouped with the Facebook epidemiologists and anti-maskers when in reality, I just don’t fully agree with how everything about this pandemic was handled— and I’m not afraid to voice that opinion.
We cannot move forward until we stop obsessing over case numbers and positivity rates; until we accept that quarantining vaccinated people is disruptive; and until we stop giving COVID-19 the starring role in our lives.
Yes, more people need to be vaccinated. Yes, regions should keep an eye on their hospitals and perhaps think proactively, instead of reactively. But, we need to figure out a way to move on.
Hi Potential_Ad8923, your comment has been removed because
* **You should contribute only high-quality information.** We require that users submit reliable, fact-based information to the subreddit. Trolling the Daily Discussion Thread will result in a ban. ([More Information](https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_5.3A_keep_information_quality_high))
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Coronavirus) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm also left leaning and feel the same. A lot of people who otherwise agree with me politically will tear into me when I say I say things like I don't want to wear masks forever.
I was practically first in line for the vaccine when it was available to me, and I've been masking diligently when told to. The discourse has gotten insane. "Breaking society" is a good way to put it.
I’d also add into this testing requirements, which are ridiculous for vaccinated travellers for cost and logistical reasons as well as the risk of a asymptomatic positives that could land someone in quarantine upon arrival or be turned away at the border. I don’t get the point: community spread is effectively apparent in every country and all this does is hamper tourism and hospitality sectors with little return on containment.
When hospital collapse is no longer an imminent risk. That'll happen when enough of the population is exposed for the first time. Exact numbers may vary (and depend on age vaccination) but it's probably 85-95%. Vaccination might not be needed for anyone under ~25 to get there.
That's the societal approach. The individual approach is that once vaccines/boosters are available to all we should just shut down hospitals for a bit (to give healthcare workers a break) and let everyone who wants to catch covid.
Six weeks after an EUA is issued for children. Once kids get a chance at shots, time to let the willingly unvaccinated get it and get it over with.
I can agree with this. At least this means there's a light at the end of the tunnel, even if it's faint.
We shouldn't let it get to the point where healthcare systems are extremely stressed like they are in much of the US South right now. This impacts healthcare for everyone which is a drain on our whole system. With the data we collect, we can usually see the surges coming and mitigation measures can be put into place. The thing is, we are not shooting for zero-COVID so closures/lockdowns aren't even necessary. There are much less invasive measures we can use to pull this off. And politicians shouldn't actively work to prevent mitigation for no other reason than to rile up their supporters. That's been my biggest gripe.
You're correct that we can't stop COVID. However, we can slow it for the simple reason that health care systems should not be pushed to the brink for months on end.
Okay, so when should a place like NY or Maine remove their restrictions, considering high vaccinations and low stress on the hospital system? Should they have to wait for the rest of the country to catch up on vaccinations?
>Should they have to wait for the rest of the country to catch up on vaccinations?
Probably not. The US is big enough that local jurisdictions should be able stagger mitigation efforts as needed in different regions. There should be established, detailed benchmarks that apply to local healthcare jurisdictions that determine whether mitigation efforts are needed. This way, there's no squabbling about "why we don't need masks indoors anymore" or "why some schools need to temporarily go to remote learning". If we had that, the answer would always be, "because the numbers tell us to".
It's just sad to me that 18 months in, with all the data science and technology we have, the US has no unified pandemic playbook that would prevent people from asking your original question. The data tells us what the exit strategy is if we look hard enough.
TLDR... after we lose another 670,000 people or vaccinate the majority of the 98 million unvaxxed... however we get there, our steady-state death rate will likely be around 76,000 deaths by covid per year... at which point it'll look more like the flu and be treated more like the flu.
What you are describing is the end game. Covid-19 vaccine is not and was never designed to be the silver bullet that destroys covid-19 off the face of the earth.
Letting it run its course is not the same as reaching the point where covid-19 is manageable. By letting it run its course now with effectively 50% fully vaccinated usa is only going to accelerate the risk of another variant.
- think about it the delta variant came with 50% of usa
the delta variant is going rampant on the unvaccinated
this leaves everyone at risk for the delta to mutate it something even deadlier
what you dont ever want to do is play a game of catch up
The problem is by "letting it run it's course" we're just saying 🤷and letting significant numbers of immunocompromised (who are still at risk even when vaccinated, this is why herd immunity is important) die a horrible death.
History and science teaches us that what we need is a high enough vaccination level to reduce the spread. If you think the hospital overload and overflowing morgues are bad now, the "fuck it we tried" option is going to be much worse.
Okay, so your threshold is herd immunity? At a county, state, country, or world level? I’m genuinely curious. Even with herd immunity, would you accept some cases if they don’t overwhelm hospitals?
Now, I might be a heretic, but: we get totally pummelled each year by the flu in this part of the world. So, my reaction is not to go gung ho about removing restrictions but it's more like thinking what we can keep and what we shouldn't. Like: You can pry the restrictions on where to enter and leave in public transport out of my cold dead hands!
Interesting, because of COVID, or because it just works better than what was done before? For instance, here in the US I hope we keep encouraging people to stay home from work or school if they are sick- but I look at that as more of an embracing a better approach than a COVID policy.
It just works better than urban combat.
Saw a guy with a giant sign that said "Covid-19 vaccines are genocide" while driving today. What the hell is wrong with the world?
Was it written by biden , and autographed by isis ?
Yes, and co-signed by George Soros......
Today: 1.07 Million total shots, 517,000 first shots.
Essentially the same numbers as yesterday, with 3000 additional first shots from yesterday.
Stat: 5 out of the last 10 days have been 1 million shot days.
Where is that?
I believe Cyrus Shahpar tweets them out.
Any word on the official recommendation re: booster shots for J&J recipients?
CDC says it will likely be recommended but is waiting on data to make an official recommendation.
Third section from the bottom
Seems as though the recommendation will be made 70 days from the time the first booster recommendation was made. Was looking for a time frame.
The NFL's Chief Medical Officer recently said the incidence of unvaccinated players testing positive has been 7x that of vaccinated players. I'm a law student and don't have a background in statistics but I tried to do some rough math--wouldn't this translate roughly to about 86% efficacy?
Regardless, considering vaccinated players are subject to much looser protocols (especially not having to mask) but still are randomly tested once every 2 weeks and that professional athletes likely have larger social bubbles due to travel, etc., this sounds like good news.
The unvaccinated players have to test every day, the vaccinated every 2 weeks. It would be far more accurate if they tested both every day to see what the real difference is. Also to answer the question below, why the don't test everyone every day, it's an incentive to get vaccinated. They are making life as hard as possible to try and get every player vaccinated. They are at 93% now, will drop into the 80s once they cut the bubble players (who are more likely vaccinated).
it is beyond me why the nfl, with as much money is at stake with any games that could be affected by covid, don’t do daily testing like they did last year and continue masking regardless of vaccination status.
Yeah I definitely agree.
I would add a caveat that I assume a significant portion of nfl players who are vaccinated likely received their vaccine on the recent side, meaning they’re still benefiting from peak effectiveness. The players also are young and in great shape and therefore should have high functioning immune systems. I don’t say this to minimize the vaccines at all, they are fantastic and remain working great. I just think it deserves a minor disclaimer that this observed efficacy likely can’t be extrapolated out to other populations too accurately. However, your point about their potential social bubbles and travel is a good counterpoint to this, so, who knows.
It's 6/7 efficacy! Very good news.
It seems like older people have waning immunity much faster than younger. Boosters are still likely to dramatically increase that 7x ratio though, at nearly zero cost (once the world has enough first doses).
I wear a thick mask (when needed) at my home elevation of 8400', 73% sea level pressure. You can easily get winded if you do anything athletic. For just sitting it's fine. There isn't any actual risk to short term oxygen deprivation though.
If you want to be paranoid take a blood oxygen meter with you and see how it changes. Just hiking up to 13-14000' can drop me to under 90%.
Here's a list of things that happen in low oxygen environments:
Airlines would never have taken off (pun intended) if they had 15-17% oxygen environments.
The warnings I've seen on N95 masks are for environments with 19.5% or lower oxygen; at 19%, people start suffering from "unnoticeable" physiological effects... the following is from an N95 manufacturer; it's a pdf that will likely automatically download if you click the link:
I'm assuming you're vaccinated.
I don't know where you read that, but no, oxygen percentage does not decrease with altitude. It remains around 20% regardless.
What does decrease slightly on a plane is the *partial pressure* of oxygen; the cabin is usually equivalent to an altitude of 5000 to 8000 feet. As long as you can still breathe freely you will be fine.
If you're still worried, bring a regular cloth mask with you. Wear the N95, and if you have trouble breathing just switch to the cloth mask for the rest of the flight.
Note that if you're unvaccinated you shouldn't be flying at all.
No expert knowledge, but people have been wearing those masks on airplanes since the pandemic began and I haven't heard of anyone lacking oxygen.
I recall seeing videos of doctors hooked up to pulse ox readers and showing that n95s and having the same amount of oxygen flowing through them as when the mask is off.
I don't think the mask would be dangerous on a plane. It might be more dangerous to not wear a proper mask on a plane with delta going around.
Fully vaccinated and tested positive yesterday. Sigh. My SO tested negative.
Hard to pinpoint but I believe a friend had covid but wasn’t showing symptoms when we met for dinner. It was 4 people total and 2 others tested negative while I was positive
Do you have good health insurance?
Would you be willing to get an antibody test for N-antibodies and report back?
I do. Is the antibody test the one where they do a finger prick? If so, I got it done 5 days ago (Monday) Bc I was curious. I don’t get the results back for a few more days.
It would require a blood draw I think.
Yes they did draw my blood from a finger prick.
Like a lot more blood than that.
I really hate to read that. Hope the vaccine makes this a mild case for you.
Super mild. No fever. No aches. Just a sniffly nose past few days. No cough. Today no runny nose after 48 hours of first signs of covid. However I can’t taste and smell anything.
Honestly , the fact my SO tested negative and have no symptoms shows how effective these vaccines are. So happy I got the vaccine and after all this is over, I’ll be super immune !
Glad you are doing well. When did you lose the smell/taste?
I started to notice it two days ago (Thursday night).
That is good news … at least as good as you having covid can be. Feel better soon.
College health center workers aren’t going to be working 7 days a week for the entire year. It’s pretty common for colleges to have very little or no medical care available on campus for students outside ordinary business hours. Look at off campus testing options.
What would you do differently if you were able to get a test?
You can literally do all of the those things without a test.
The only thing a test would give you access to is monoclonal antibody treatment, which you aren't gonna get without leaving your university, and if you can do that, you can just go get a test somewhere else.
You're sick, get some NyQuil and sleep it off. Go to the hospital if you get worse.
With some positive news, Japan's 7-day average has been dropping the past couple of days, and it appears that they are past the peak.
What!? But idiots on reddit were saying the Olympics was the end of the world and the whole world was going to die!!