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Don't expect consistency from the Left

Don't expect consistency from the Left

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zach010

https://news.gallup.com/poll/194741/four-five-americans-support-voter-laws-early-voting.aspx Most USAs are for voter ID I would just say that they should be giving them out. Similar to how easy it is to get a vaccine card. Free and Easy to get.


LeClownFou

Agreed, there should be an entirely free way to get an ID.


Butterfriedbacon

You will be very happy to know that every state that requires ID to vote provides free IDs Edit: For anyone saying "it's not easy" here are my two canned responses: 1. Depends on what your bar for easy is. I'm not sure I'd consider "request ID" as a difficult process but...ya know, I'm not you. 2. No shit, it's the government. Governments are notoriously bad at doing anything easily or efficiently. And the more you give them the less efficient they will be.


MaineJackalope

Remember, free is only half of it, easy to get is the other half, and that's the part that's getting fumbled. Personally I'm fine with how my State does it, same day registration, just prove you're a resident with a piece of mail from a bank or utility company with your name and address. Works fine, we've had less than a handful of voter fraud incidents in the past decade, and have great voter turnout (78% in 2020, 73% in 2016) We also just implemented ranked choice voting, which is good because we have a lot of people who'd rather vote primarily libertarian or Independent without worrying they'll get stuck with the worst choice


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MaineJackalope

That sounds purpose made to keep some people out of the democratic process of our great republic to me. And also to reiterate, Voter ID laws are unnecessary, because the kind of election security they help with, voter fraud, is already a non-issue


Domini384

How would you know it's a nonissue?


Phoenix_Lamburg

Because there’s no credible evidence that it has ever been an issue beyond a scarce few isolated cases.


Domini384

Well of course not, how would you know if you never actively look for it....


hiricinee

I sign something like 10 things a year for professional credentialing a year under penalty of perjury and not once have felt intimidated, and I'm more than willing to restrict people from voting who are.


gslavik

In NYC, to get a rifle and shotgun permit, you have to disclose all arrests. I was never arrested. Except the one time more than 10 years ago when I was given a citation for blocking an extra seat on a half empty subway at night; that is considered an arrest. I had even forgotten for a time that it had happened, since it was not a big deal to me, because I paid the fine online.


rickane58

I forgot, which part of the constitution enshrines your right to professional credentialing?


UserNameN0tWitty

The problem with saying "we've only had n cases of voter fraud" is you only know of the people who got caught. That's like saying "there are only 545,000 people that use marijuana because that's how many people were arrested for using marijuana last year."


Lasterba

I know, right? Filling out a paper is so hard I don't think anyone could possibly accomplish such a feat.


Charonx2003

Depends on how easy it is to get those free IDs... If you can only get them by signing up 17 weeks in advance with 5 different kinda of proof that you live where you say you live and only collect them in person in the middle of nowhere from 11:37pm to 11:39pm on the third Saturday after a new moon, they are still technically "free"...


Apprehensive_Pop_334

Then you agree with most democrats tbh. Idk where this notion that democrats are anti voter ID comes from. If you listen to any length of their arguments you’ll notice they say it is racist not because they have to show ID, but because it makes the process unnecessarily hard and or expensive. Providing free and easy ID will meet the requirements of many of the democrats want to see.


Joedude12345

>Idk where this notion that democrats are anti voter ID comes from The Democrats. See: Georgia.


Apprehensive_Pop_334

Read my whole comment and listen to their arguments please. The reason they were anti voter bill was mainly that it added steps to get a voter ID card and it disallowed handing out water. There’s a talk to be had about that second point, but it doesn’t concern voter ID so it’s irrelevant right now. Another big complaint brought up was the ability for the state to essentially reject the vote from any of its counties for the most part arbitrarily.


cherryblue3

I still don't get why not being able to get water is such a problem or why it was ever mentioned. When I went to vote, the location had no concession stands and not a single person providing any sort of beverages or food for anyone in line. This isn't the line to a rock concert. Or are people complaining that perfect strangers can't offer water for others? Which is worse to be honest. And no, the steps to get an ID (stop calling it vote ID, it's an ID, plain and simple) are still the same. When I got my driver's license I got offered the separate ID card for free in case I ever chose to go out without driving and had the chance of being carded like at a club or restaurant. My Lord, if you think getting an ID is difficult you would think getting a green card is like studying calculus and impossible!


TheArchdude

The handing out water thing is just preventing electioneering in voter lines and is illegal in most states. Election workers can hand out water, just not partisan campaign workers.


kevtoria

Most states don't allow campaigners to pass out water. Georgia is the only state to restrict it to only allowing poll workers to hand out water and they aren't required to if they don't want to.


sethumb219

fairly certain Georgia has a free, easy to get voter ID card, bot sure if any other states have it, but seems like a good idea! Especially in places where having a drivers license isn’t mandatory to get around (big cities)


LeClownFou

That's great! Do you know what someone would need to be able to get one? For example, some places do offer free ids but require other forms of identification that may not be free to obtain/re-obtain.


cherryblue3

Same exact requirements to get a driver's license. Which unless you live in the city and at walking distance of everything, you would already need to get anywhere. Let alone purchase a car, rent an apartment/buy a house, get alcohol, get into clubs, fly.


larzast

Agreed. If there were a universal requirement to have photo ID for voting, it would only be fair that IDs are provided free of charge (within reason). Whether or not it could be argued that there is evidence of voter fraud, the value to American democracy of restoring the public’s confidence in elections vastly outweighs the negligible cost of providing free IDs. That would also be a much more palatable platform for all sides of the aisle because it would likely boost access to other government services amongst minorities while scannable ID tech could be used to streamline the voting process.


thuanjinkee

easy. just make the vaccine passport valid Voter ID


LeClownFou

Sounds good to me!


MillennialDan

"USAs"? The heck is that. If you mean American, just say so.


denis0500

I don’t believe the issue is the idea of voter ID as much as it’s the way it’s implemented. States pick and choose the IDs they’ll accept and they can use that to try and exclude certain groups of voters. I’m not saying they are or aren’t, I’m saying they can if they want to. Accepting a handgun license but not a college ID, seems like a pretty clear statement about who you want to vote. Or requiring residential addresses on the ID when some people don’t have residential addresses on their houses.


zach010

Thats a really good point. I was imagining an entirely new form of ID. Like a US citizen card. It has your picture and name on it. Maybe a voter id number. And it's given to everyone that is an American citizen. I know people complain about like "well now you've gotta prove with documents that your an American citizen. What if you loose docs" My answer to that is "Yes. You should have to prove this to vote. Thats literally the point of the ID. Please work to get the docs. We can help you with the process."


FortunateHominid

Maybe it's because a college ID isn't government issued/vetted like a handgun license is. It has nothing to do with demographics.


CarrotyParisian

My college ID is issued from the state. I work for a university in the state university system. I also had to complete an I9 form prior to starting the job. How is that different from a handgun license?


WheatonWill

I agree. Identification should be free. Although there should be a replacement cost if you lose it working a certain time period.


Diddlemyloins

I’m a democrat and I found it highly unsettling how easy it was.


liquidgold83

In my state, photo IDs are free and they mail them to your house, so they know you have a residence in the state at least. However, they looked at voter rolls and found one house in Atlanta had over 10,000 people registered to vote there.


SineWavess

This. These politicians state it is so hard, time consuming, confusing, degrading, and difficult for people...ESPECIALLY MINORITIES... to get an ID to vote. Yet, nobody says boo when you're carded to buy guns, purchase alcohol/tobacco/MJ, applying for a loan, mortgage, checking account, and the plethora of other reasons you may be asked to identify yourself in this country.


vicemagnet

Try renting a car…when you’re 18


Ih8tedems

Damn near impossible


Warm-Risk-3352

Hey now. Those kids are just as smart as white kids


th3dandymancan

Thanks Uncle Joe!


Warm-Risk-3352

Just be careful in that racial jungle!


slickiericky

Believe it or not I was having a discussion with a new us citizen who actually grew up here went back to his country then came back... long story but very successful global business man. Cannot stand people who come in illegally, who don't pay taxes, live on the fringe of society and can vote in our country which effects how his money is used.


FleshyRepairDrone

I'll consider him fully integrated when he despises paying taxes lol.


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Belowaverage_Joe

Wrong again.


RealityIsAScam

Well we aren't provided guns for free so... how are you expecting people to exercise their right to keep and bear arms if they can't get arms without an ID? Also the correct word is aren't, as you are talking about a plural list, without specifically referencing the list, but rather the contents of it. Gosh I swear you liberals are so uneducated.


Greenman_on_LSD

As a progressive, glad to see the top comment on this post exactly what I was thinking. Just make ID's free. Parents have had to show proof of their child's vaccinations for public school for a while. Edit: I almost forgot I need to show my town a rabies vaccination for my dog to get his license.


Palerion

I’m pretty sure most conservatives agree with this. I literally don’t want to prevent any American citizen from voting. I do want all voters to verifiably be American citizens. A friend of mine claimed that conservatives don’t want certain groups of Americans to be able to vote, and personally I find that preposterous—but it was something that he *adamantly* believed. I think this is just a reflection of the polarization between us, convincing members of each party that members of the other party are evil people. Occasionally you’ll find malicious individuals on either side, but for whatever my experience is worth, I’ve never known a conservative that wanted to stop specific American citizens from casting their vote.


jmc1131

Agreed, that seems to be the sticking point, should issue all middle schoolers a federal ID and then start working on a free and simple federal ID for all adults, would take time but imo worth it to ensure election security and make it easier for people to travel.


Taco_Trader

If you need an ID to buy a firearm, I don't see why having an ID to vote should be a problem.


tapo

Hi, liberal here from r/all The problem for both (I am presently against ID to purchase a firearm) is that getting an ID takes time and money and it shouldn’t prevent someone from voting. The actual solution to this is giving everyone a cryptographically secured ID for free (think modern credit cards with a chip) and making that the federal identification standard for everything. Then we can require it. Ideally we also get rid of voter registration with the exception of voting in a political primary. We can require it from private industries too, to prevent identity theft.


PurifyingProteins

Denmark has this, at least for healthcare, and it makes it so easy. I go to any doctor/dentist, I scan my card when I get there, they have access to my records, no need to retake x-rays and all that. Being from the US, I can’t speak of all the features it has, but holy crap does it make things easy. If we implemented a secured universal ID card with insurance to cover data breaches, that would be stellar.


1_Cent

Danish socialized healthcare covers dentists? Canadian health care doesn’t cover eyes, teeth, back pain, and there’s probably way more that we are heavily taxed for, but don’t see a return on investment.


PurifyingProteins

It covers dentists and orthodontists, where for orthodontist it’s fully covered until you are 18. When I lived in Canada my insurance covered one massage a year. I was a teenager when I left so I don’t remember everything it covered. But the return on investment for preventive maintenance on maintaining a healthy body is huge. The medical cost of leaving small issues untreated leads to large and very expensive health problems that drives up the cost of healthcare for everyone as now you need to be taken care of, which increases demand for healthcare and reduces your financial contributions to society. A healthy and happy society is cheaper and productive.


jimmyleather

I like it. I like it alot


marksarefun

So why aren't liberals lobbying to make IDs free? It seems like instead of lobbying to make IDs not required we can both agree on that they should just be free? I don't think anybody would argue with that point...?


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marksarefun

Every state that requires voting IDs currently has free/drastically reduced ID costs as well as expedited, simple processes. The short answer is republicans are. >Point of the issue is, the constitution says voting should be an equal right for everyone. If even one person is unable to vote because of voting laws, then that’s unconstitutional. How hard is this to understand ? This is complete bullshit. If you can find transportation to a polling place, you find it to a DMV. Shut the fuck up about able to vote but unable to get an ID. There is nothing preventing people from getting valid IDs to vote. You need one for literally anything else with age/address/citizen requirements.


PilotTim

All states that have passed voter ID laws have also included free state ID. So that argument is null.


virus8080

Um some states take a couple days others you can get 1 the same day and a ID where I'm from is 9 or 10 dollars. No reason someone can't afford that or wait a couple days.


TacosAndBourbon

I feel like we could reverse the text and it would apply to the Republican party * Government ID to show we can safely drive a car * Government ID to show we can safely own a gun * Government ID to show we can legally drink * Government ID to vote * Government ID travel abroad But: * A temporary form of ID to show we can **safely** travel abroad is too much?


Midget_Stories

I don't think republicans are complaining about proof of vaccination to travel abroad. I'm pretty sure republicans are the ones saying that if someone has proof they're vaccinated they should be able to come to the US to holiday. They're against vaccine passports for local things such as visiting a pub.


gnarliest_gnome

Is anyone for vaccine cards for "local things such as visiting a pub"? Outside of maybe an extremely small outer fringe?


duanei

Would it be OK for the pub owner to require showing a vaccine ID before customers can enter?


windrunner830

Pub owner is owning their own place. They can require me to show my Social Security number to enter. I just won't.


novacancy8o8

Yup, and I would know which place not to patron going forward.


Midget_Stories

Honestly if the pub wants to then I'd be fine with it. If the pub is forced to do it in order to not be shut down by the gov that's where it crosses the line for me. I do think it's starting to get into dicey territory though. Since at that point you're not discriminating against someone based on an illness. You're discriminating based on the possibility of an illness.


nekomancey

No. It's already been banned in several states on the basis it's a violation of privacy.


piezombi3

I would also argue that the studies have been done to show that voter fraud really isn't a thing. There's lawsuits happening now over the 2020 election that have turned up.... one republican using his dead mom. Karen's pretending to be vaccinated to go out while being anti-vaccine though? Pretty sure we've all seen that one.


DBMaster45

The problem with this argument is that the left doesnt want Vaccine Passports simply for safe traveling. Go check out r-politics....if they could restrict people from buying food/water/gas by requiring a vaccine passport they would. Traveling abroad isnt necessary. Food and water? Absolutely necessary and my local walmart doesnt need to know anything about my medical records. They literally say "they (the repubs) can all catch COVID and die then"....


enronFen

Reddit keyboard warrior liberals aren't the same as policy makers though.


Joroda

B-but requiring an ID to vote would mean... would mean.... the voters could only vote once... and, much worse, they would have to be actual citizens of their respective state, there would have to be real accountability, oh no no no we can't have that.


mrbaggins

If only there was an electoral roll that was checked?


Arcosah

You get a vaccine card instantly for a shot that didn't even exist a year ago but you have to wait in line 6 hours with 2 other forms of ID to get a 3rd ID even though you've been alive for 18 years. No, you can't use the 2 other forms of ID either. Libs are fine with voter IDs, they want easy to get IDs. Let's not bury our heads *too far* up our own asses yeah? It makes us all just bitch. Let's develop an easy ID system so everyone can shut up about this already.


Guilty-Dragonfly

But.. the liberals..


Phil_T_Hole

Serious question: were there instances of people voting for Biden twice or of people voting for him in the wrong constituency/jurisdiction? I'm unaware of any, but would like to be educated in the matter. I'm not talking about random cases here and there, as I'm aware that you'll always have people acting in bad faith, but your post implies that a) it was widespread and b) it was just Biden voters doing it. I'd genuinely like to know more, if you have anything to share


crazywatson

I saw this in the news just a few days ago: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/colorado-man-suspected-wife-s-death-cast-ballot-trump-her-n1267416


dred_pirate_redbeard

>I'd genuinely like to know more, if you have anything to share They won't lol The entire premise of this post is flawed, I'm waiting to see how long before someone calls it out.


ohtobymytoby

Your comment already got hidden, lmao.


vaporizz

It's bs lol


ArmyofJuan

[Like this guy](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/president-trump-tried-to-register-to-vote-in-florida-using-an-out-of-state-address/2020/06/03/687d0014-a4f2-11ea-b473-04905b1af82b_story.html)


WeFightTheLongDefeat

I think 99.9% on this sub agree with you


adiposity256

You do know that you can't vote twice just by not having an ID? If any significant number of people voted for others with or without ID, there would be duplicated votes. That gets run down real fast.


WigginLSU

It's not, it just should be free to acquire like the vaccine.


OGShepardGaming

Damn the brigading is starting hard again Lol. Before when I checked this post a lot of conservative comments were upvoted and now tons of hard left leaning liberal and Democrat comments are being upvoted and conservative ones downvoted..


oyveyanyday

Then they need an alternate place to go. r/politics has gotten taken over by 1) rude assholes, 2) people who believe ever-crazier leftist conspiracy theories but don't get called out on it, because as long as you throw in "orange man bad" you can make up as much hateful commentary as you want over there. So anyone with an IQ between 80 - 110 that was over there is going to start looking...the people who are smart enough to know that the left leaning subs are garbage, but maybe not smart enough to full understand the lay of the political land yet


Crapocalypso

Support Harvard making Asians have 200 points higher on SAT than African Americans to be admitted. Enact anti Asian hate crime laws, which is primarily African Americans doing the attacks. Remove SAT from schools as “racist” which will remove the above handicap from African Americans to get into college. What’s also racist? Math, acronyms, the nuclear family, being on time, credit scores, history, Abraham Lincoln, Frederick Douglas (don’t ask me… they tore down the statue), quoting Martin Luther King (if you don’t have enough melanin), self defense…. And if you think I’m just being outlandish, these examples, and many more, have been mentioned as “racist” within the last year.


indigoreality

Man fuck Harvard and their “affirmative action for everyone except Asians.” Can’t believe the judge ruled in favor of Harvard.


Pizza_Ninja

My favorite part is how black on Asian crime is somehow white supremacy.


novacancy8o8

You forgot making fun of people that justify knife fights when only one person has a knife, they'll ban you from YouTube for that...


historiographic

Lol why are you being downvoted? Those are all legit examples of racist actions by BLM leaders and multiple vocal black activists. I see the Left continues to infiltrate this sub and is getting upset that you’re giving them facts.


Crapocalypso

In the downvoter’s defense, I didn’t word my response very well. Then the leftists complain that only people with flair can comment on some posts. Yeah…. Because the leftists come over and downvote en masse, trying to silence us with bans, shadow bans, and keeping people from commenting for certain amounts of time.


icon0clast6

Yea I was posting on r/politics back when I joined in 2012 after getting downvoted a few times I “was doing that too much wait 10 minutes to post” which in turn doesn’t give you a chance to explain your position to snarky 14 year old responses and then you just get further in a hole. Haven’t been back since. Place is a trash can.


PregnantMexicanTeens

I agree. I think it's only a matter of time when the left replaces MLK with Malcolm X like BLM has.


IJustLovetoEatButt

You can't fix stupid.


SchoolBusUpButt

There are entire subreddits dedicated to this stupidity. It amazes me people are unable or unwilling to take a step out of their echo chambers. Smh my head.


Awkward_and_Itchy

Lol, echo chambers like this one?


OwnedYew

Flaired users only :^)


Psteaz

We’re an ideological minority on Reddit. Just accessing this site and going to r/all for 20 seconds is a bombardment of opposing viewpoints. Not to mention the mods here don’t outright ban lefties, definitely not true for “progressive” subs. So unequivocally no lol


aracheb

Those are mostly bot and shill with a few stupid people.


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Mental_Cartoonist896

Don’t even need a party, you can just call them conservative


puglife82

People don’t actually think like the person portrayed in this meme, though. I guess if you just want an enemy to rail against and don’t care if it’s fact-based, this meme will do.


UnsafestSpace

Voter ID is a good idea but dead in the water if Dems manage to cement universal postal voting at the Federal level before the next Presidential election - (they have already tried twice and no news is talking about it).


SnowySupreme

Automatic voter registration is better. Its worked in countries like sweden.


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chappersyo

I’m not American so I don’t give a shit about either of these things, but if you want people to listen to you then making up shit like “vaccine passport to leave your house” just makes you look like your point can’t be made without crazy hypotheticals or outright lies.


cappurnikus

It's a straw man.


FlaccidSkeleton

But, by this logic, if you're against a vaccine passport doesn't that mean you are also against voter ID?


045675327

See your mistake there was 'Logic'.


Nick16761

Why is this forum over run by dems?


Wendal_the_great

Is Reddit


BlueCollarGoldSwag

All of Reddit is liberal. No matter what sub you go to


oyveyanyday

Maybe because r/politics got taken over by absolutely insane people and jerks and conspiracy theorists, so they need a home. So unless they're trolling, I say we accept them or at least try to tolerate them


RNGesus

Is it an actual talking point that democrats want people without ids to vote? Genuinely curious. Edit: it seems that the issue that democrats have with IDs is that is more difficult to get if you are a minority, [at least this study talks about it] (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Voter+identification+laws+and+the+Suppression+of+minority+votes&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3Dgj4Vse-q5zQJ) But it sounds like they just want it to be easier to get IDs, so you can vote easily no matter who you are, no? Can anyone play devils advocate on this idea?


Angry__Jellyfish

I think most people are taking issues with other items in the last voting bill that made the news, at least that's my take. Requiring IDs to vote makes sense, but some of the other things in the bill were just dumb. Like handing out water to people in line, reducing mail in voting, reducing polling locations/hours. I can see the argument as to why IDs might be harder to get for some demographic, to fix that tho the programs that administer IDs should be strengthened to make IDs easier to obtain


DaScoobyShuffle

>to fix that tho See, that's where the issue is. Reps don't sant to fix it, because more voters in certain areas would lead to their defeat. The issue is overblown but it's still there. If Reps want to push voter ID, they need to make sure everyone should get an ID. But they won't do that and that's where the issue is.


SageManeja

* All other first world countries: Well of course we require an ID to vote! * USA: iT woULd bE RaCisT I say this as a spaniard who cant even comprehend how you guys have elections without showing an ID. Americans are advanced but backwards on some specific things.


qr0n0s

In my country you get your first photo is in the mail when you turn 16. (all you gotta to is go take a picture in lots of locations and it takes an hour, tops.) Also it's free. Can you say the same for US?


Richdav1d

“To leave your house” lol what an overstatement


puglife82

I’m a Democrat and had no problem showing ID? I’ve never even heard of someone having a problem with that. And who is talking about not being able to leave your house without a vaccine passport? This really seems like a strawman argument, and it’s disappointing tbh.


SkyeQuake2020

Of course it’s consistent. It’s consistently makes sure the liberals never lose their grip on power.


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ANGRY_MOTHERFUCKER

Yep. And if you think only the other side is doing it, congrats: the propaganda worked.


oyveyanyday

How are Republicans doing it? I don't see it. Or maybe they are doing things that don't bother me as much at a visceral level. I live in a left leaning area and I often feel like left leaning politicians purposely enjoy screwing things up to annoy people. I never had that reaction to any republican


soooofa_king

**Coming at this from a more centrist non-partisan view** So just to play devils advocate....people talk about a vaccine passport as if its akin to the Nazi's asking for your papers. Putting hyperbole aside for a moment, why would it be a bad idea to require a vaccine passport for International travelers coming into the United States? Seems like common sense to me. Is there any way to discuss the issue from a rational standpoint or is it all or nothing partisan politics as usual?


puglife82

Sometimes I feel like social media has us all so polarized that we’re unable to see anything through a non-partisan lens and just talk anymore. It’s all about teams now, and I’ve noticed myself doing it too at times :P


windcape

The US already requires a vaccine passport for Yellow Fever, even for Americans, if your flight origins from certain countries or regions The WHO “yellow card” vaccine passport have existed for over half a century (since 1935). Looks like this: https://i.ibb.co/kKZ8Gd1/Yellow-Fever-Vaccine-Certificate.jpg


Belvedere48

Don’t be bringing common sense reasoning to Reddit lol. (Although for political subs this once seems more appealing in that department to me.)


cadence_7

Yeah, I’m more of a leftist but I also agree with voter ID???? I have to get my ID out to buy nic and alcohol. I should prove my identity when voting.


Perfect-Draw516

This from the people who say Antifa was behind the Capitol riots but don’t want the insurrection investigated. 🤣🤣🤣


Billy_T_Wierd

Bit isn’t it the same for conservatives if you just switch the faces around?


contagion781

I honestly think you shouldn't have to show ID for either, but showing ID for voting makes more sense and if I had to pick a side I would go for that


Yankee_Andaluz

Showing your passport to enter the country makes them mad too


iPenguin42

?


hometownrival

Yeah, I’m confused too. Who’s against having people show their passports to enter the country? Libertarians, perhaps?


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olivedi

You guys are showing your vaccine card to leave the house?


Glow354

No.... nobody is.


GuyNippleton

Showing an ID to leave your house so you can go vote. They don’t think things through do they.


Krampus1313

Somehow they don't see that certain group of people won't be stopped and the excuse will be vax passport.


devnasty009

Don’t expect consistency or rationality.


Crowgora_

Most states have a vaccine registry, so regardless of a vaccine passport (which no one is asking for anyway), you can find vaccine status pretty easily if you want to. Just like most states voting registry as well. Why do you insist in making yourselves mad over nothing lol


OGShepardGaming

I wish the mods would change this post to flaired users only now since I can’t even find a conservative comment now..


Nago31

It’s funny how things work. Like 80% of Americans support basic voter ID laws yet Democrats in office have a firm policy opposing it. Like 80% of Americans support legalization of MJ for recreational use and Republicans in office have firm policies opposing it. We need elected officials that actually care about what their voters want. Why is this so difficult?


Zoidburger_

The issue is in the barriers to entry. If we want proper voter ID, it should be free, easy to obtain, and not require hard-copy documents that need to be managed by other people until you need them (that, or those documents should be free and easy to obtain as well). Not everyone's parents were/are responsible with things like your birth certificate and SS card, but those things require jumping through hoops and paying a sum of money to get a copy. And hell, let's say you get your driver's license (instead of a "state ID"), depending on state, it's not always easy to get it renewed (or reapply for one if it's expired). Theoretically, everything should be tied to your SSN already. In most states, you already need to provide this when you vote and your voter registration is tied to your SSN. Given that your SSN is a *Federal* registration, other Federal information should be stored in tandem with your SSN. States should have access to this information and use it, tying your birth certificate, last known address, and last photo to it. You should be able to easily submit your photo, address, and other updates via mail or online to a central agency (DMV, for example) for approval. This should be free, and a free ID card (not driver's license) should be sent to the new address once approval has been gained. Since you can't just grab any random address and SSN off the street, walk into the DMV, and have your information changed from, say, a female called Linda Brown living at 123 Ball St to a male called John Smith living at 456 Main Ave, the same would go for that approval process. It sounds logical, but this process varies from state to state, and the biggest barrier to all of this is incompetence and bureaucracy. As it stands right now, you go and get a vaccine (for free) and you get a vaccine card (free). You can then upload this information to a central database (also free) so that, if you lose your vaccine card, your information is still stored there proving that you were vaccinated. The only barrier to this is literally whether or not the individual can be bothered to go and get their vaccine, and whether or not they can be bothered to upload their information. That's why these two topics are so different. The barriers to entry and the individual cost to implement these are vastly different, though both could achieve the same desired affect (registered proof meeting a requirement). If your reason for not wanting a vaccine passport is personal freedom and not wanting everyone to know your personal information, then why would you support a voter ID? Or alternatively, if you want a voter ID to provide you with assurance that a specific group of people and only that group of people (American citizens) are the only ones voting for the safety of America, then what exactly is the issue with a vaccine passport, with the purpose of providing assurance that people permitted entry to somewhere are vaccinated? Make voter ID free and abundantly easy to get as a citizen, and then we can have voter ID. That's always been the block of introducing voter ID. But if you're worried that you won't get to do things because you choose not to get vaccinated (due to a vaccine passport being in place), you are still exercising personal freedom. You just face the repercussions of your decision when it's free and easy for you to get vaccinated. Just like it's my freedom to buy a project car that doesn't work, I'm responsible for the money pit that it very well could be.


Koronakiller

BuT iD iS RaCiST


reaper527

how about we split the difference and say that all states will accept a vaccine passport as a form of id, but id will be required for all elections in all states?


TomHatesBaths

Not to leave your house but to travel


Smoked-939

How about both


the-beans-69

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Zeke12344

Last I check I can leave the house without bringing my vaccine card. Guess you're just angry people are actually getting vaccinated.


AundaRag

One is racist and classist, one is not.


KoreanKopKiller

21 million Americans live with no ID, it costs anywhere from 75-175 $ dollars to get in any given state. Even if the state you live in like Texas offers free ID, you pay fees: this violates the civil rights act because it is effectively a poll tax. States can deny certain forms of ID to deny certain demographics like students and their ID’s, this is government interference at its worst.


gestetner

Is there some other form of identification when voting in the US? What is the argument against it? ID is very much required in my country and all neighboring countries.


Ass_Infection69

Not to mention Michigan is trying to give ILLEGAL immigrants a driver's license.


begbye

OP literally compares two different contexts and thinks they are the same.


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annmta

Flip the top and bottom text and change the D to R then you have a left meme. Not sure where this is meant to go lol.


Man-Wonder-4610

I am just not able to understand, how requiring voter ID is voting suppression. I would ask any of the other subs, but I would get downvoted. Like most of you have said in the comments. 1. Ok to get a DL 2. Ok to get a vaccination passport. 3. Ok to get a firearm permit. 4. NOoooo, not ok to get voter ID. If any of have a reason for why they say, what they say, please share.


_-MindTraveler-_

They aren't against voter ID. They are against forcing voter ID while still making it hard for some immigrants, eldery, etc. to get these ID. Some immigrants have a hard time getting those IDs because they sometimes don't have the necessary documents from their country, or simply can't easily afford 50$ for a card to vote. This is why the left criticize this, by saying that requiring voter ID stems from racism because it impacts minorities much more, which might've been the goal of some politicians. Saying that conservatives are racists because they want voter ID is stupid, of course, because most of them want voter ID for normal reasons. If the ID was just a national ID given to each american for free, then it'd be totally fine to ask for ID when voting. Same goes for my country, I wish we'd have a national ID card, everything would be much simpler. I seriously need to drive a car to have the required ID for most things, which really sucks. It would be such a small investment which would make the life of everyone easier.


puglife82

I could be wrong I think it’s about people who are low income, elderly, disabled, etc who may have a harder time than most with getting ID because they have trouble getting/affording the documents required to get the ID. They’re concerned that disadvantaged people won’t have a voice in their government.


Charonx2003

By making the ID requirements easy to fulfill for those people that are likely to vote for you, while making it harder to fulfill for those that are likely to vote for your opponents. Example: Are your voters likely to [own a gun](https://www.statista.com/statistics/249775/percentage-of-population-in-the-us-owning-a-gun-by-party-affiliation/), while voters for the other party are significantly less likely to do so, then allow gun-permits as a valid form of voter ID. Inversely, add hurdles that your voters can more easily clear, e.g. if your voter base is more likely able to afford to pay some kind of fee to obtain a type of voter ID, but voters for other parties are less likely (because they are less wealthy), charge that fee. If the ID requirement was something everyone could obtain equally easily there would be no issue.


sicutumbo

It's suppression because it adds a meaningful cost to vote, and that cost is felt disproportionately by minorities. If someone is working full time, or working more than that at multiple jobs, it can be very difficult to get time off work to go to a DMV or equivalent and wait in order to get a license. DMVs are notoriously slow in processing people, and in many cases are difficult to reach without a car (which can't be legally driven without a license), adding up to significant barriers towards getting a license. And even if there are sufficient DMVs or equivalent at the time voting ID laws are passed, they're shut down afterwards. [This isn't hypothetical.](https://www.justice.gov/crt/voting-determination-letter-34) DMVs are shut down in areas that are disproportionately composed of minorities, which in effect creates a larger barrier towards minorities getting licenses. DMVs don't operate as much outside of working hours, *requiring* the person to take time off work to get a license. When the list of acceptable IDs is given, [minorities are disproportionately likely not to have any of the acceptable forms](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/01/north-carolina-voter-id-law-blocked-discriminatory) so they need to spend effort getting another form of identification. And even aside from all that, voting fraud is not a significant problem in reality. The amount of fraud prevented would be miniscule in comparison to the amount of people who are suddenly prevented from voting. Time and time again, there have been investigations into the extent of voting fraud, and none of them come up with actual cases of fraud anywhere close to a fraction of what Republicans claim. The whole voting ID idea is putting effort towards stopping a problem that doesn't exist. In the most contentious election in recent history, where claims of fraud were flying all over the place, Republicans could not find legitimate evidence of fraud that could survive scrutiny by a judge. Look at [this.](https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?combine=&state=TX&year=&case_type=All&fraud_type=24493) Using a site from the heritage foundation to show I'm not being biased in selecting examples, they are reporting a whopping total of 7 cases of Texas voters impersonating someone else in order to vote, over multiple elections. The front page of the site lists a total of 1300 instances of voter fraud, for the entire country. This number is absolutely miniscule compared to the number of people voting in any election, and it's counting fraudulent votes from multiple elections. Free voter IDs for every citizen above the age of majority would be acceptable, so long as it doesn't present any true barrier to obtaining one, but I'm not convinced it would solve any real problem, and would doubtlessly cost millions of dollars that are needed for more important issues.


alaskansteve

Hypocrisy, it’s what they do best.


damnyou777

If they had any standards… it’d be double standards


Gifted10

Cab you get a vaccine passport without an id?


defenselaywer

In Wisconsin you didn't need id to get vaccinated. I can understand why other countries require proof on vaccination. It makes sense that employees working with vulnerable individuals, like nursing home workers, show proof on vaccination. Voting, unlike travel is a right. While I'm not against reasonable restrictions like voter id, I don't understand why some states are making providing water to voters in line a crime. Any group could do it, and if people need to wait hours to vote that's on the state.


bubbawears

If you guys had a working bureaucracy so every american citizen could have their papers and not this signature bullshit that is unheard of anywhere else in the world democrats or people with a working brain wouldn't have to protest it.


basse1985

Are really most democrats against it though?


reaper527

> Are really most democrats against it though? most democrats? no. most reddit democrats? yes most elected democrats? also yes.


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oyveyanyday

I am gay and had a visceral reaction (negative one) when I was HRC in the gay parade in 2015. Like, WTF bitch, don't use us as a pawn. Not to mention that the parade attracts a certain type of person that is maybe not the best face for the community (urban, image obsessed, bitchy, and prone to drugs and binge drinking). As someone who used to be in that scene, I'm not judging heavily, but I have to call a spade a spade.


Wicked-Chomps

Imagine the outrage if this was a year ago and it was Trump forcing every American to get a non FDA approved vaccine. The whole "my body my choice" community would be lighting cities on fire!


catsaver662

Consistency from either side at this point is like trying to hold a liquid in your hands as if it’s a solid


henriquecs

Meanwhile in leftish Europe: show national Id to vote no vaccine passport.


Salad-Snek

You’ve never been to Europe at all have you


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subchop710

False equivalency.


codemancode

Ok? Vaccine passports are stupid as f**k, and voter ID is common sense.


GryffindorGhostNick

I am pretty far left in political leanings, but this and PC culture surrounding a lot of speech is where the establishment just colossally lets me down. My biggest gripe about this is, they make it sound like voter registration is this difficult thing to do, and it is unfavorably difficult for some folks to get it. Fine. Even if that IS the case, HOW the hell is your answer to not have voter registration?!? YOU are responsible for governing, and making the lives of people better. DO YOUR JOB and make getting the ID as easy as possible. Instead, you'd rather leave these people in their supposedly awful situations, and just benefit from their vote with a promise to maybe help them? If what it will take to make you help them is to make their vote for you impossible to cast UNTIL you help them, I say lets do it.


historiographic

Come on, man, it’s just (D)ifferent!


badbadfishy

New narrative of "IDs aren't free" sprung up once the "IDs are racist" went down in flames. Every functioning adult has ID. It's either free or cheap. If that's truly your concern why the push against voter ID laws. Why not a push to make IDs free? Not a fan of paying the gooberment money myself. Bipartisan common ground? No. Narrative changes to reinforce party talking points. Yes. The people that push this (just double checked) have no programs in place to help get IDs for people that you say are in need. Unsure how you function as an adult without having an ID and at a certain point I have to question who these people are that you're talking about. Hell requirements for ID are so lax they've created loopholes in property ownership laws. Some guy can have a piece of mail sent to your house and get an ID and claim residency and you're incapable of removing them. Clownworld really is the norm now.


Informal-Concept6265

Liberals/Leftists are pathetic


Raaqu

Not that I agree with vaccine passports being overused, but one of those things is free to get and the other isn't...


MleemMeme

I have to show my id every time I vote. I thought that's how it was. That's how they find you on the registry.


RealityIsAScam

Did you miss when entire states just sent ballots to every address or?


T0rtilla

By their logic, wouldn't requiring vaccine passports to shop somewhere be racist? Hispanic and African American minorities have a significantly lower vaccination rate than whites.


oyveyanyday

EXACTLY


simjanes2k

Where do I fit on the compass if I support both?


Eschlick

Vaccines are being administered for free by the government. They have set up fully staffed vaccine locations at schools, churches, malls, and other locations nationwide. Vaccination locations are open on weekends. So they are free and easily accessible. I 100% want everyone to bring an id to vote. However, I would *also* like to fund the DMV so that IDs required by the government are also provided for free by the government. I want DMVs to be fully staffed and available in as many locations as the vaccines are. I want DMVs to be open on weekends. I want IDs (and birth certificates) to be free and easily accessible. It can sometimes be cost-prohibitive for people who poverty to obtain an ID. For someone who can’t afford to take time off work, who relies on public transportation and can’t easily get to a distant DMV, and who can’t afford the costs and fees charged, getting an ID can be incredibly difficult. If state IDs are so important, they should be free and easy to get.


Sensual-Lettuce-

Ya a little context helps, one is to not spread a contagious disease, and the other just makes it harder to vote. Totally unrelated


ENFJPLinguaphile

They are consistent in one thing: total inconsistency!!


HundleyC09

Cool meme but can you point me to a state or even a city that requires you to show a vaccine card before you leave your house?